INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 21 for Windows => Topic started by: ptr727 on May 10, 2016, 05:04:42 pm
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Hi, every now and again I would hear a glitch while playing music, just a micro second scratch sound.
If I rewind and play the same spot again, no glitch.
I've not been able to associate it with anything environmental or source material, happens randomly with FLAC, MP3, and M4A.
System:
MC 21.0.76
Win10 Pro, Surface Pro 3
Self powered USB hub, Audioengine D1
WASAPI, exclusive, auto, 100ms
Any ideas how to troubleshoot?
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Could be something as simple as needing to increase the buffer for the WASAPI driver. Or something like a bad USB cable that needs replaced. Or something more complex as noisy USB power, which requires some sort of USB "decrapification" (e.g. a Schiit Wyrd, UpTone Audio USB REGEN or related device available on the Internet).
It's hard to say, really. I'd start with increasing the buffer and changing the USB cable(s) and see if that helps.
P.S. I randomly experience this on both ASIO and WASAPI, and I know it's because of noisy USB power, which I'll have to get a Wyrd one of these days in hopes of addressing it for good.
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I found this:
http://audioengineusa.com/setupguides/USB%20audio%20Whitepaper.pdf
And this:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92575.0
I will try to increase the buffer.
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I found this:
http://audioengineusa.com/setupguides/USB%20audio%20Whitepaper.pdf
Huh, didn't know about the potential issue with 4th Generation Haswell Intel integrated USB 3.0 controllers. That was basically my setup until a week ago when I switched to the onboard USB 2.0 ports (because, well, having three different operating systems installed on one PC is so 'fun' when dealing with incompatibilities between the three, heh).
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I've tried a variety of things, only way to get glitching to go away is to use DirectSound.
Any WASAPI based setting, short buffer, long buffer, different USB ports, different cables, all result in glitching.
Does WASAPI vs. DirectSound really make a difference?
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I also tried foobar2000 with the WASAPI plugin in event mode, no glitches, double check with playing same song in MC, glitches.
I am beginning to think this problem is specific to MC WASAPI and the D1.
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I've tried a variety of things, only way to get glitching to go away is to use DirectSound.
Any WASAPI based setting, short buffer, long buffer, different USB ports, different cables, all result in glitching.
Does WASAPI vs. DirectSound really make a difference?
it can make a difference, it can be the same
have you / can you try an ASIO driver?
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I've had this trouble, too. Mine seems to be associated with Chrome making web hits. If I turn off chrome, or reboot my machine, the glitching disappears. For a while.
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it can make a difference, it can be the same
have you / can you try an ASIO driver?
If you can provide instructions I will.
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If your sound device supports ASIO, you will need to get the driver from the manufacturer and follow their instructions for setup.
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Mine seems to be associated with Chrome making web hits. If I turn off chrome, or reboot my machine, the glitching disappears. For a while.
Yep, same here with both ASIO and WASAPI.
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I installed ASIO4ALL.
MC DirectPlay: Ok
Foobar2000 WASAPI: Ok
MC WASAPI: Glitch
MC ASIO: Glitch (after pause)
I did further notice that WASAPI and ASIO work after a reboot, then after pause and resume they start glitching.
WASAPI keeps glitching, ASIO will return to normal after pressing stop and play.
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Do you have anti-virus software? It can interfere if it hasn't been configured to ignore the song files and MC's executables.
How powerful is the Surface? I'm guessing it's pretty modest. Run the JRiver benchmark. Help > Benchmark > run benchmark.
Are you playing songs from local disk, or from network volumes? The network might be an issue.
These are all just guesses.
Brian.
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Yes AV is installed, no AV is not interfering.
Surface Pro 3 is a Core i7 8GB RAM 512GB SSD, not so modest...
Given that Foobar2000 WASAPI and DirectPlay has no problems, the issues seems to point squarely at MC.
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In my own testing, switching the USB port and replacing the USB cable has helped a great bit along with increasing the buffer. Also in my own testing Chrome, Opera and Vivaldi (any Chromium-based web browser) seems to trigger this issue. Do you have one of these running when it happens?
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I've changed USB ports, changed USB cables, changed to a powered USB hub, no difference.
My default audio is not the D1, D1 only used by MC, making it default makes no difference in MC.
I do use Chrome, and it is always running, I would not think it should interfere with MC, it does not with foobar2000 nor with directplay, will try tomorrow.
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Yes AV is installed, no AV is not interfering.
How do you know that? Until you disable and de-install your AV software, you can't be sure. Does my statement seem kind of ridiculous? Uninstall AV software??? What am I crazy?
No, not crazy. AV has been a rather huge issue with MC for some time now. The only way to be sure is to uninstall your AV software AS A TEST. Not a permanent solution. Just a test. Then you can be sure whether or not the AV software has anything to do with the issue you are experiencing.
AV might be the cause. It might not.
But I hear you saying "It works with other software, so it must be MC's fault". It's hard to accept at first, but different music players use the OS in different ways. MC may more aggressively "touch" files which trigger AV related bugs that other software doesn't trigger. Just because it works with another software program, doesn't mean that "MC is broken".
Good luck to you.
Brian.
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How do you know that? Until you disable and de-install your AV software, you can't be sure. Does my statement seem kind of ridiculous? Uninstall AV software??? What am I crazy?
No, not crazy. AV has been a rather huge issue with MC for some time now. The only way to be sure is to uninstall your AV software AS A TEST. Not a permanent solution. Just a test. Then you can be sure whether or not the AV software has anything to do with the issue you are experiencing.
AV might be the cause. It might not.
But I hear you saying "It works with other software, so it must be MC's fault". It's hard to accept at first, but different music players use the OS in different ways. MC may more aggressively "touch" files which trigger AV related bugs that other software doesn't trigger. Just because it works with another software program, doesn't mean that "MC is broken".
Good luck to you.
Brian.
A couple of things for my good luck;
- I work for the AV ISV running on my machine, so I know a thing or two about AV software and kernel programming, and often ridiculous claims about AV is to blame, when ISV bad coding is the cause and AV exasperates the symptoms.
- Defender is part of Win10, there is no disabling it, any ISV should make sure that their software works properly on Win10 with Defender (or other AV products).
- Any ISV that requires disabling of AV software for proper operation of their product is not worth your money when they make you vulnerable.
- If AV has been a huge issue with MC, the issue is with with MC, not AV in general, and I would be happy to help MC.
- I realize you may not represent MC or MC's official position.
But I'll humor you in the hopes of getting to a real solution.
Uninstalled my AV, disabled Defender, MC WASAPI still glitches, DirectPlay still works, Foobar2000 WASAPI still works.
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Your test seems to have eliminated AV as a possible cause of the problem. Cool.
Your previous specs on your machine would seem to indicate that it is easily powerful enough to play audio files without glitching. It might be fun to run the benchmark just to see. Help > Benchmark > Run Benchmark . But I doubt the machine's base performance is the issue. Unless you're trying to transcode 2x or 4xDSD to PCM on the fly? Or perhaps encode PCM to 2x or 4x DSD on the fly? But you didn't say so, so that's probably not it.
I don't know much about WASAPI so maybe someone with more experience can chime in about specific settings.
Are your files local, or on a network drive? What kinds of files? Any 2x or 4x DSD?
Brian.
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Have you tried without Chrome running? Chrome likes to run in the background by default, even after you close it. Fortunately there's a setting in Chrome's advanced settings to disable that.
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Your test seems to have eliminated AV as a possible cause of the problem. Cool.
Your previous specs on your machine would seem to indicate that it is easily powerful enough to play audio files without glitching. It might be fun to run the benchmark just to see. Help > Benchmark > Run Benchmark . But I doubt the machine's base performance is the issue. Unless you're trying to transcode 2x or 4xDSD to PCM on the fly? Or perhaps encode PCM to 2x or 4x DSD on the fly? But you didn't say so, so that's probably not it.
I don't know much about WASAPI so maybe someone with more experience can chime in about specific settings.
Are your files local, or on a network drive? What kinds of files? Any 2x or 4x DSD?
Brian.
Files are local, mp3, m4a, flac, flac (hd), did not find a specific file or file type with 100% reproducible results, glitch random, often after resume from pause
JRMark (version 21.0.81): 3045
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Have you tried without Chrome running? Chrome likes to run in the background by default, even after you close it. Fortunately there's a setting in Chrome's advanced settings to disable that.
Chrome already set to not run in the background.
I need Chrome to do daily work, next time I can repro a glitch I will close Chrome and report if it made a difference.
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I'm having an extreme problem with this. I've tried everything I've read on this issue. Using Direct Sound setting, Default channels, 1.00 second buffering, 20 second prebuffering.
My hardware is an older laptop (Runs Windows 7 Professional) with JRiver and files ripped lossless. USB to Dragonfly DAC then to my integrated amp. I have removed most of the album art to reduce file size.
Update: I changed to WASAPI and changed USB ports. It helped but has not eliminated the skipping. I have set Chrome not to run background apps when the program is off.
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Are you using 21.0.83? It's at the top of this board.
Are you playing local files?
Antivirus programs often cause this problem.
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Are you using 21.0.83? It's at the top of this board.
Are you playing local files?
Antivirus programs often cause this problem.
Thanks Jim.
I am running 21.0.80. The files are local, I imported them from my desktop. Windows Defender is off as is Ad Aware Anti-virus. I will upgrade to 21.0.83 and let you know if it helps.
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I upgraded to 21.0.83 and this seems to have fixed the problem. Thank you so much!