INTERACT FORUM

More => Old Versions => Media Center 11 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: Matt on August 07, 2003, 01:30:02 pm

Title: If you're bored...
Post by: Matt on August 07, 2003, 01:30:02 pm
If you'd like a glimpse of what we're working on, there's a new beta listed lower.

It's a work in progress.  Don't try it if bugs, crashes, and half-finished features will upset you.

Major changes are:

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: sraymond on August 07, 2003, 01:37:44 pm
Quote
15. NEW: TV time-shifting supports audio compression.


Great addition...  That will come in *very* handy.

Scott-
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Doof on August 07, 2003, 01:46:54 pm
Right click seems to be broken.

I managed to open the File Properties box by hitting Alt-Enter. But I can't see that it's actually doing anything. There's no menu or anything that I can see.

And the splitters are going to be skinned again, eventually, right?
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: xen-uno on August 07, 2003, 01:57:40 pm
I like the location of the search bar BUT...you can't search within, say, a smartlist (and they are broken) as you could before (B226). Generally speaking though, I like the layout.

10-27
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Yaobing on August 07, 2003, 01:57:50 pm
Quote
15. NEW: TV time-shifting supports audio compression


Oops, it should say "TV recording supports audio compression", at least for now. I am not sure if it gains anything by compressing audio during time-shifting, it definitely will strain the already-strained CPU. So I am not planning to put audio compression in time-shifting unless someone comes up with a very compelling reason for it.

In this build audio compression is automatically attempted during recording. It will pick an audio codec if one of the following exists in DirectShow filter form:

Windows Media Audio V2
MPEG Layer 3
Microsoft ADPCM

I am working on modifying configuration to allow users to pick a compressor.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Doof on August 07, 2003, 01:58:11 pm
Ok, I'm starting to get it now. Obviously it's still a work in progress, but here are my thoughts...

The Playing Now list is pretty sweet. Make regular playlists act the same way, and it's a winner!

The right click menu to switch between the views, is, IMO not enough. A tabbed interface to switch between the views would be nice. But even the semi-toolbar that we had before would be ok.

One thing that could make it even nicer was if Playing Now was also a seperate item to choose, so we could more quickly get there.

I really don't like the new player bar, although I think moving the search box to where it is is a good idea. What would be nicer, though is if the location bar still displayed to current location where it used to, and the search bar was put in the middle. That way, the current location is still displayed next to the back and forward buttons. It seems more logical there.

And never mind that comment about my right click not working... It is now. Not sure what was up with that.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Doof on August 07, 2003, 02:00:24 pm
All in all, I gotta say I really like where this is heading. It obviously needs to be cleaned up some, but... wow.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: clout on August 07, 2003, 02:01:51 pm
Quote
17. NEW: Action Window > Play shows "split pane" Playing Now.


This is definitely a step in the right direction.  However I'd rather see the PN as a split pane below the library.  I need to see more info like BPM & Genre for compiling PN 'on the fly'
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: retrospek on August 07, 2003, 02:02:15 pm
Sorry - but I'm not sure I like the position of the new Play Controls and Display area etc.

I would much prefer the Display Area (with the track name etc.) in the middle of the screen - as it was with the previous build.

Also, I don't like the volume and seek bar being on top of each other.

I do like the 'auto sizing' properties window - although it doesn't appear to auto size correctly on my screen and leaves a big white space underneath.  I'm also hoping the properties window will have some kind of border around it (as it doesn't look right somehow).

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: xen-uno on August 07, 2003, 02:04:07 pm
Right clicking works in most places, except in the Media Library view and the sub-views under it.

10-27
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Svempa on August 07, 2003, 02:07:09 pm
Looks good so far, but i found thing that realy drives me mad, when you double-klick on a file exnetrnaly, MC ads it to playing now and plays it. It used to Replace playing now, and thats the way it shold be!

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 07, 2003, 02:14:46 pm
I like the split panes thing with the playing now down the left.  Very good for DJing...

Not sure about the play controls in the middle.  I'll probably get used to it but I would prefer them where they were and the display in the middle...

Had a crash in PLaying Now switching from an image file to an mp3 and now I am getting a crash every time I start to play.

If the enw ction Window is going to be context sensitive any cahnce the cover art could follow the currently playing track? :D

I like the auto sizing stuff but can there be a size bar as well?  SOme things automatically go small and I would like them bigger.  And cover art should be able to be sized to any size possible.

Please don't remove the option to select things in the action window so that it is just in the right click menu.  This confused me at first and I am an experienced user.  

The new drop target thing rocks...only thing I can think of to improve is maybe some icons in a mini location bar to jump to specific places rather than having to use the right click menu...The bitmaps behind are nice but could do with a bit more alpha blending as it is hard to read the text.

Any chance that the drag,drop go playlist editor could show the selected files like the playing now does??  I never use playlists persoanlly but for those that do it would take away all thoughts of split panes :D

Just noticed that sometimes the auto resize is screwy.  I now have statistics showing about amm tall.  Cannot read anything.  All the more reason to be able to override the autosizing sometimes too :D

Old Bugs:

Still getting the dodgy scroll bar error in all add rule dialogs (smartlists, searches)  I will try updating to the latest Catalysts but I think this defo MC

Adam

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Doof on August 07, 2003, 02:14:52 pm
I just noticed that you can't re-order items in the Playing Now split pane. You can choose where to drop them, but once they're there, there's no moving them without going to the real Playing Now. I hope that'll be addressed.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 02:15:06 pm
Quote


Do you have any idea how much coding must have gone into this?!?


i didn't finish downloading it yet( iam acctually 56K and i usually call it "Cap Meter" :D...)
and my words i wrote is based on the history list above.. :)

and well yeah i know how much codes.. coz iam computer engineering department in the academy! :P
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 07, 2003, 02:15:54 pm

"Drag, Drop, and Go" is a very good thing.

I like new location bar. Though, I prefer bigger buttons.

I am not sure I like each covert art resizes different.

Right click does not work in detailed list.

Album thumnails is always grayed!!!

I closed "Action Window" and it took me 10 minutes to figure out how to show it again.

Why dont you like tabs? Tabs can be clean, nice, and soft. For my way of use MC, the tree needs to much screen, and it shows many I rarely access. I switch between "Playing Now", and my favourites schemes. It does not justify the big tree (to me).
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: retrospek on August 07, 2003, 02:17:33 pm
I've posted a screenshot at the following URL:

http://www.markus.plus.com/MC.jpg

Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't like the new layout of the top part of the screen.  Also, note the white area under the properties window.

Cheers,

Mark
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pensive_Chimp on August 07, 2003, 02:20:43 pm
Woah. Where'd the stop button go?
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 07, 2003, 02:22:23 pm
Just noticed the new controls for columns and sorting.  You sneaked them in quietly!! :D  Very nice especially the ability to reset by media type and to save for just this location or sub locations too... (Columns to show would still be easier if it was a dialog tho.  At the moment there are a lot of clicks if you want to add multiple columns)

retro: not sure about the player controls myself either but then I hated it when they were moved from the bottom left :D  Certainly nobody can say it looks like that Mac program now ;D

Adam
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 07, 2003, 02:24:24 pm
Lol Monkey.  I just realised that at exactly the same time I saw your post.  Where is it guys??  We gotta be able to stop now and again.  BTW Old skins still work okay they will just need a bit of tweaking.  Brushed Metal looks pretty cool...

Adam
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 07, 2003, 02:24:25 pm
Quote
I just noticed that you can't re-order items in the Playing Now split pane.



I can.

Did you pay the comunity fee?  ;D
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Phil Lee on August 07, 2003, 02:26:49 pm
I like the new plans for the action window. I can see how the drag, drop and go could be useful even though I don't play my music like that. I did miss being able to manually resize the action window though.

As for the top area, I really must say I prefer the old layout with the display in the middle. In the new layout, the buttons dominate the view. I think the display should dominate since this show what is playing. Surely that's the most important thing and should be the primary focus of that part of the interface.

For the time being I have uninstalled this build because of the bug with smartlists. I can't live without these for use with my iPod.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: lOth on August 07, 2003, 02:31:52 pm
Where did the 'Display options' in Hairstyle go?

Should this disappearance make us think you're currently working on HS too?  ::)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 07, 2003, 02:35:45 pm


It is obvious you plan to reconsider top layout. I want to suggest (again) allowing a top toolbar independent of the menu. "Bottom" toolbar is a really wierd thing.

I would put not scheme dependant buttons in this top toolbar (as in any Windows application).

I think now is the moment to make this suggestion, so I do.  
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 07, 2003, 02:36:19 pm
Show/Hide in the action window right click menu should be at the top level.

Adam
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Rands on August 07, 2003, 02:37:58 pm
I can definitely see the direction you guys are going with the Action Pane and I think it's going to shape up to be the best change to MC since the addition of panes (HAHAHA I LIKE THEM).  

I am not going to post the old bug list because you guys have just too much on your plate right now with these major changes.  Once the builds stabilize, we'll get back on that old wagon.

What is the chance of getting TV/Video to play down there?  I just had this vision of a baseball game playing in the Action Pane while I worked with MP3s.  In fact, I use zones so I can watch TV and play music at the same time.  Not important, just a neat idea for the future.

I think I'm with most people in saying I don't really care for the separation of the position slider from the current-playing box but, as Matt pointed out, it's going to change anyway.  It just seems like it might be annoying for people with low resolutions.

Keep up the good work guys.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Matt on August 07, 2003, 02:38:18 pm
The top bar is still a work in progress.  We know it isn't better.  At least not yet.

Quote
The right click menu to switch between the views, is, IMO not enough. A tabbed interface to switch between the views would be nice. But even the semi-toolbar that we had before would be ok.


Any suggestions on how to do this would be welcome.  A clean-n-simple look is very important there.  Tooltips + right-click was the cleanest, but we don't think it'll hold up in usability tests.  Ideas?

Quote
Where did the 'Display options' in Hairstyle go?


If you're not playing there are no options.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 07, 2003, 02:40:56 pm
Quote
Lol Monkey.  I just realised that at exactly the same time I saw your post.  Where is it guys??  We gotta be able to stop now and again.  


The "stop" button is kind of expected, but really... Does not the "Pause" button offers same functionality?
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: gpvillamil on August 07, 2003, 02:40:59 pm
Smartlists seem to have stopped working. Every smartlist returns a list of everything in the Media Library.

I'm using Windows XP, MC v9.1.228

The system info option under help keeps giving an invalid argument error.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: JimH on August 07, 2003, 02:41:01 pm
Don't worry too much about the details.  Things are still in progress and may move.  Many items are related to the skin itself.  Try other skins if you don't like what you see.

The big change was the addition of the "Action Window".  Activate it from the Edit menu or by hitting ALT-Enter.  Try right clicking on it for other options.  If you set the drag,drop to play/play, you will get the Playing Now list.

NO NEED TO REPORT BUGS on this version.  We know there are a few.  We haven't looked at all the reports from the previous version, so please don't re-report them.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pensive_Chimp on August 07, 2003, 02:45:21 pm
Quote


The "stop" button is kind of expected, but really... Does not the "Pause" button offers same functionality?


Not with TV. Stop = stop watching TV, Pause = Pause TV (Start Timeshifting)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Ingo on August 07, 2003, 02:46:48 pm
Quote
The top bar is still a work in progress.  We know it isn't better.  At least not yet.


Any suggestions on how to do this would be welcome.  A clean-n-simple look is very important there.  Tooltips + right-click was the cleanest, but we don't think it'll hold up in usability tests.  Ideas?


add buttons to the bottom toolbar.

or: splitt the bottom toolbar.
the part below the action pane could hold 'tabs' (or buttons to switch items to show).
the part below the lower right pane would hold the toolbar as we are used to it....

Ingo
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Rands on August 07, 2003, 02:47:25 pm
Quote
Any suggestions on how to do this would be welcome.  A clean-n-simple look is very important there.  Tooltips + right-click was the cleanest, but we don't think it'll hold up in usability tests.  Ideas?


A button bar with small icons representing each section with the currently displayed section's button highlighted.  The button bar should be customizable via right-click (so a user can remove sections he never uses).  It should have the option to auto-hide or stay visible constantly and maybe even be displayed on the top or bottom (and maybe vertically left or right)?

This button bar should be "inside" the action pane and disappear when it is hidden.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 07, 2003, 02:54:51 pm
What would be cool would be a button bar but the buttons are actually menus when necessary.  So the target button allows access to playing now, burner etc.  Stats button allows you to choose the page etc...  All vey clean and very simple...

Adam
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 07, 2003, 02:56:17 pm
And a PS...I dont think Pause and Stop are the same thing. There is a definite time when stop is necessary.  Even if it was a shift click on the pause button...don't tell me it is a shift click on the pause button ;D

Adam
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 07, 2003, 03:02:53 pm
Quote
The top bar is still a work in progress.  We know it isn't better.  At least not yet.


Any suggestions on how to do this would be welcome.  A clean-n-simple look is very important there.  Tooltips + right-click was the cleanest, but we don't think it'll hold up in usability tests.  Ideas?



Regular vertical buttons in the left of the "Action Windows" or regular tabs on the bottom. It can be very clean (look at Visual Studio .NET IDE).

Now that you are working in the GUI, let me insist about the necesitty of droppable buttons (sorry to be a pain). Actually, there are to many available toolbar buttons, and they could be grouped in just one droppable button. The more obvious sample is the "Rotate button". Do I really need to waste 3 buttons spaces when one droppable button could be enoght? Same criteria could apply to "Locate button", "Send to" buttons, or "Library tools" buttons...

I dont know if it is possible to add images to the menus, but it could be a magnificent improvement. Not every thing is about number of click, it also count the number of items to read (the attention you need to pay in order to do the work). Good icons are soooo helpful.  

Sorry I dont attach any image. I have not web space.

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: JimH on August 07, 2003, 03:04:52 pm
The stop button will return.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 07, 2003, 03:06:10 pm
Hooray for the stop button ;D
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 07, 2003, 03:10:58 pm
Quote
And a PS...I dont think Pause and Stop are the same thing. There is a definite time when stop is necessary.  Even if it was a shift click on the pause button...don't tell me it is a shift click on the pause button ;D

Adam


No, there is no a shift click. But if you are able to click while holding CTRL-ALT-L and F6, the result is just what you wish.

Try it  ;D
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Jaguu on August 07, 2003, 03:12:07 pm
Well,

1) I like the new position of Search Bar, it seems to be more usable now.

2) I don't like the position of the controls in the middle, I prefer them on the left and the display in the middle. By the way, instead of copying the Mac, why don't you make your control buttons the same shape as your MC9 logo -  that would look really rock (Play in the middle, stop below, pause above, left and right). I think WinDVD has something similar and it looks really smart!

3) In the Action window you included Playing Now. That's ok, but the basic functionality of the property window has not really improved - just cosmetics.
Why are you so reluctant to group the fields according to media type and name them properly (audio, images, video as in Media Library)? And why are you so reluctant to have our own grouping as so many have asked for?

4) As I did not trust this new beta, I installed it on a second test pc and imported my backup files there.

This is really, really annoying  ?  I have over a dozen user defined fields and all those fields and the associated data don't get imported!
I would have to go through all those field add field forms again to define the fields exactly as on the first pc. This is really error-prone and annoying. I mentioned this bug a few times in the past, but it has never been fixed.

5) The same with View schemes. Would like to duplicate my view schemes on my second test pc. Is that possible? How?

6) Basically, I am of the opinion that refining functionality and make it rock solid is more important to have a really good product than UI cosmetics.

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 07, 2003, 03:23:05 pm
Quote


6) Basically, I am of the opinion that refining functionality and make it rock solid is more important to have a really good product than UI cosmetics.



Rock solid, yes. But now it is pretty solid, al least, it didnt crash me any time in the latest betas.

Refining functionality or adding new ones, would be great. I am also asking for new functionalities. But in my opinion, now it is more important to improve usability and GUI.  
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 03:30:36 pm
Quote
1) I like the new position of Search Bar, it seems to be more usable now.

I agree..! :)

Quote
2) I don't like the position of the controls in the middle, I prefer them on the left and the display in the middle. By the way, instead of copying the Mac, why don't you make your control buttons the same shape as your MC9 logo -  that would look really rock (Play in the middle, stop below, pause above, left and right). I think WinDVD has something similar and it looks really smart!

I Totally Agree ::D
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: JimH on August 07, 2003, 03:54:52 pm
Quote

I agree..! :)

I Totally Agree ::D

Don't worry.  Be happy.  NOTHING IS SET IN STONE -- things will change.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: JimH on August 07, 2003, 03:57:00 pm
Quote


No, there is no a shift click. But if you are able to click while holding CTRL-ALT-L and F6, the result is just what you wish.

I think I have injured myself.  Can you give me your attorney's name?  

Listening to: 'I'm In Love' from 'Atlantic Rhythm & Blues 1947-1974 Volume 6 1966-196' by 'Wilson Pickett' on Media Center 9.1   :-*
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 07, 2003, 04:43:25 pm
Quote
Any suggestions on how to do this would be welcome.  A clean-n-simple look is very important there.  Tooltips + right-click was the cleanest, but we don't think it'll hold up in usability tests.  Ideas?



I realize I answered to quickly. Now, I see the solution is harder to find, since each item to show has different necesities and "we" need to handle items and subitems.

I guess the goal is to minimize (or even suppress) any right-clicking.

I think regular tabs are necesary to handle the item to show. About the "sub items", we need different solutions, and I think the "Active Window" could be as a standart window (I mean it could hold menus and toolbar). I wonder about each item individually:

1) Tab "Drag, Drop, and go"

Drag and drop target could be a drop down list. Look at WMP drop down list to select the playlist to play. Could also be a title-menu-link (a title that becomes a normal menu when you click on it). The semi-toolbar you used in previous betas did not seem a drop down list, so you should consider a different design.

The actual "List" item, would become the normal right--click (just the same as right-clicking in the detailed list).


2) Statistics tab

It seems obvious to me that each individual item has to be in a drop down menu. I dont know

By the way, a "Artist" statistics is missing.

3) Images tab

The Image tools could be a menu inside the "Action Window". Or even better, a droppable button. Actually, there exists little difference between a normal menu and a droppable button.

4) Info tab

A button to "Copy to clipboard"? I dont see why not.

5) Playlist tab

A menu for Playlist tools. Or a droppable button.

6) File properties tab

The easy solution to supress right-clicking would be to have 2 menu items: "Library tools" and "Fields to show", but I think "Fields to show" shoud be a button that wuold open a dialog window to check (and even sort or group) the fields user wonts to shows.

I am sorry, but there is the need to make a dialog window to select columns to show. IMO.


------

I think this could be easy to implement using regular Windows controls, only question is about if it can still be clean. I think it can, we only need the right controls and the right icons.

Another question someone has to think is about how to group all "properties windows" in one side, and the new "Drag, Drop, and Go" in the other. Because "properties windows" (file info, image, playlist, etc.) refers to the selection.   "Drag, Drop, and Go" is another thing. I understand you dont want to hear about tabs and subtabs, but I had to say it  :)





Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: sraymond on August 07, 2003, 04:48:05 pm
Quote
The top bar is still a work in progress.  We know it isn't better.  At least not yet.

Quote:  The right click menu to switch between the views, is, IMO not enough. A tabbed interface to switch between the views would be nice. But even the semi-toolbar that we had before would be ok.  

Any suggestions on how to do this would be welcome.  A clean-n-simple look is very important there.  Tooltips + right-click was the cleanest, but we don't think it'll hold up in usability tests.  Ideas?


There's a lot of right-clicking required in MC...  tabs might go a long way to making operation more intuitive.  I was really (really!) hoping the changes included a tabbed interface...  sure, there's a real-estate hit with the tabs, but I think it's worth it.

Scott-

P.S.  I typed this post with my thumbs...  the doc says it will be a few weeks before my fingers are usable again.  But at least I don't have to type with my nose!
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 05:39:00 pm
some additions must be added like goning through the windows explorer to a folder of media and then click fomr windows xp from the left "Play All" .. MC then adds tracks to playing now with the same number of the files in the folder but they are all a same track with the same rename...!

that passed on me really! ::)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: digitaltrapper on August 07, 2003, 05:40:26 pm
I never had a problem with the regular 9.1 version of the top window, and I don't think most people did either. Except for maybe the small search bar on 9.1

As for people thinking that MC is copying iTunes with the 9.1 interface... Microsoft has been copying Apple for years and for good reason... they make a good product.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 05:52:12 pm
Quote
The new version is UUUGLY. Man that top panel just sucks. But I know, it will get better. I never had a problem with the regular 9.1 version of the top window, and I don't think most people did either. Except for maybe the small search bar on 9.1

As for people thinking that MC is copying iTunes with the 9.1 interface... Microsoft has been copying Apple for years and for good reason... they make a good product.


you got that straight man!... you know microsoft is a huge company for softwares like the one hold all underneith!..8) ...

and if for the top player bar you included in your words.. i think this new MC top playbar interface is getting as much as MUSICMATCH jukebox ..( you know this new looking new user interface!  

keep up guys with the good work! ::)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 06:41:22 pm
Well .,
i have a good idea that might help in the new interface of the playbar..
just a small button down the stop or pause button that closes the library window and clicking again to close the library window..

i included a screenshot of the idea:

http://www.netspaceonline.net/netspace/tomy00/MC.jpg

thanks..
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: kiwi on August 07, 2003, 06:43:28 pm
Quote
Smartlists seem to have stopped working. Every smartlist returns a list of everything in the Media Library.

I'm using Windows XP, MC v9.1.228

The system info option under help keeps giving an invalid argument error.



I am having the same problem:

Listening to: 'The Healing Game' from 'The Healing Game' by 'Van Morrison' on Media Center 9.1

Listening to: 'Schubert - Quintet in A major, "The Trout" - Scherzo: Presto - Trio' from 'Trout Quintet, Italian Serenade, Eine kleine Nachtmusik' by 'Takacs Quartet' on Media Center 9.1

All from a smart playlist with the following rules:

[Genre]=[Gangsta Rap],[Hip-Hop],[R&B],[Rap] ~s=1200 ~sort=[Random]

And no, they aren't miss tagged.

Thanks,
kiwi
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 06:44:03 pm
Quote

the mouse from the PARC Labs


one can mean that for a good reason! :)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: kiwi on August 07, 2003, 06:49:27 pm
Just some general notes:

I'm not a huge fan of the new bar, it doesn't look nearly as good as the previous bar, but I understand that it's being worked on.

There should be a better way of displaying rules for smart lists.  When you have multiple rules or longer rules, it is very hard to edit as they extend off of the single line.  Maybe having a separate window pop up.  Or having the list rules in the left hand pain.  I would love to have a small window and be able to control the rules much as they are done in mail programs for filters.  Or, have an easier way of actually editing and viewing the rule.

My problem is that in order to view it, I have to select "edit by typing" and then use the right arrow to get over to the rest of the rule.

kiwi
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Matt on August 07, 2003, 06:54:15 pm
Quote
i have a good idea that might help in the new interface of the playbar..
just a small button down the stop or pause button that closes the library window and clicking again to close the library window..


mini-me is our "Player Mode".  I think adding another mode on top of that doesn't give us much.  An easier or more obvious way to get to mini-me may be useful though.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 06:59:57 pm
Quote
Just some general notes:

I'm not a huge fan of the new bar, it doesn't look nearly as good as the previous bar, but I understand that it's being worked on.

There should be a better way of displaying rules for smart lists.  When you have multiple rules or longer rules, it is very hard to edit as they extend off of the single line.  Maybe having a separate window pop up.  Or having the list rules in the left hand pain.  I would love to have a small window and be able to control the rules much as they are done in mail programs for filters.  Or, have an easier way of actually editing and viewing the rule.

My problem is that in order to view it, I have to select "edit by typing" and then use the right arrow to get over to the rest of the rule.

kiwi

I Dont get what the point of rule...!:)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Omni on August 07, 2003, 07:01:26 pm
First, to all you self-appointed critics out there:  shame on you.  After all, Matt did state in the very first post:

Quote
The top bar of the program has been rearranged.  Expect it to change more before things are finished.  Once the design is finalized, the skins will be cleaned up for the new look.  For now, we know it doesn't look or work optimally.


He also stated...

Quote
It's a work in progress.  Don't try it if bugs, crashes, and half-finished features will upset you.


(For the above, please note that I only speak for myself and my own personal interpretions of the posts so far.  I'm sure JRiver appreciates all feedback, so don't take me too seriously. :))

Second, WOW!!!!  We can now view the playlist and media library at the same time!  Kudos and accolades, guys!  This is an awesome milestone.  :D ;D :D

Omni
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 07:02:52 pm
Quote


mini-me is our "Player Mode".  I think adding another mode on top of that doesn't give us much.  An easier or more obvious way to get to mini-me may be useful though.


i mean closing the library window.. not a playmode!
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 07, 2003, 07:07:16 pm
Quote
Second, WOW!!!!  We can now view the playlist and media library at the same time!  Kudos and accolades, guys!  This is an awesome milestone.  :D ;D :D

Omni

iam talking about another topic from the first place which is the closer look of MUSICMATCH..
thats what i noticed in the first place!:) nothing more..
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pensive_Chimp on August 07, 2003, 07:31:23 pm
Great work guys. The direction is good and I have a feeling you'll make all the needed "polish" as quickly as you can code it. So, I have no suggestions just yet on how the new stuff should work, other than making "quick click" iconic tabs to switch between the six "Item To Show" options. No text, to save space, just tooltips to further describe to newbies what each tab icon switches to.

Also, on a related "change the interface" vein: it's my opinion that the "Media Center Display" area that currently shows above the Playing Now area should actually show *below* it now. This would keep the top sub toolbar at the very top, so that the browsing back and forward buttons are always in the same place on the screen. Currently, all other areas within MC show the back and forward in that same place, but you have to go hunt them down when in Playing Now.

Again, awesome direction guys!
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pensive_Chimp on August 07, 2003, 07:32:32 pm
Oh, and those quick click iconic tabs should probably be along the bottom of the new active window thing, that way they don't move when the area resizes itself.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Matt on August 07, 2003, 07:51:58 pm
Just to explain the playerbar layout: it's as it is so we could play with some other internal redesign concepts where this layout makes more sense.  It's too early to say whether these ideas will see the light of day.

And there are still a lot of things to hammer out with the "Action Window".  I'll list some of the challenges.  Any ideas on how to improve any of them would be welcome.  ( as always, the "make some options" answer will make us grumpy :P )  One key is that we want it as clean as possible, so in "Image" mode, it only shows a thumbnail preview without any other clutter.

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: digitaltrapper on August 07, 2003, 08:31:51 pm
Quote
Just some general notes:

There should be a better way of displaying rules for smart lists.  When you have multiple rules or longer rules, it is very hard to edit as they extend off of the single line.  Maybe having a separate window pop up.  Or having the list rules in the left hand pain.  I would love to have a small window and be able to control the rules much as they are done in mail programs for filters.  Or, have an easier way of actually editing and viewing the rule.

My problem is that in order to view it, I have to select "edit by typing" and then use the right arrow to get over to the rest of the rule.

kiwi


I second that. Don't know the best way to implement this, but I have lots of playlists with lots of rules, and it is hard to modify them once I create them (cause I can't see all of them at once)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Soundman on August 07, 2003, 09:03:58 pm
Matt wrote:
Quote
Manual item switching -- already mentioned this, but we need to expose the tools and modes that are available but want a very clean look.  Right-click, auto-hide, or one button that opens a menu (like the Windows Start button) are some ideas.


Here is how I think this should work: At the top (or bottom) of the Action Window should be a label that says which of the six "Items to Show" you are currently viewing.  This should be shown both as an icon and as text.  When I click (left-click) on this bar, it should drop down a list of all six choices so I can quickly switch to another one.  I would like this much more than iconic tabs that try to show all six modes at once, but relying on tooltips to find out what they actually mean.

Quote
Other helpful pages -- what other things could be in the action window that would be helpful?

The pending list of stuff to burn to CD or download to device could go here.

For video file, a list of bookmarked positions in the file (like DVD chapters) could go here.  This provides a quick way to jump to them.

Drag, Drop, Go
I absolutely love Drag, Drop, Go.  It needs to be easier to change the drop target.  A big help would be a MRU to quickly switch between a few recent drop targets so you dont have to keep drilling way down the tree.

You probably already are planning this, but when the drop target is a playlist, shouldn't it list the files currently in that playlist, as it does for PN?

Multiple Action Windows
If you show the Action Window as a separate Window, then you need to be able to open as many of them as you want.  That way, you can have a bunch of drop targets on the screen at a time and need no switching between them.  Also, I really want to have file properties, a drop target, and Playlists open all at once.  Switching between views is what I want to avoid.


Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Soundman on August 07, 2003, 09:18:55 pm

ToMy00 wrote:
Quote
i have a good idea that might help in the new interface of the playbar..  
just a small button down the stop or pause button that closes the library window and clicking again to close the library window..
 

...and Matt replied:
Quote
mini-me is our "Player Mode".  I think adding another mode on top of that doesn't give us much.  An easier or more obvious way to get to mini-me may be useful though.


Matt, you are right, of course. However, ToMy00 has touched upon a need that I have felt but not expressed before.  That is, I want a simple mini-me skin that looks and feels just like mega-me (PixOS) but just excludes everything but the stuff at the top of mega-me.  Why?  Because I hate mini-me skins.  They are irregular shaped, have confusing buttons, etc.  As a user, I don't want to have to learn a whole other UI; I just want to trim the familiar one to its minimum when I switch to mini-me mode.

Also, on the subject of skins, I think I asked this before but never got a reply - why is it that metamorphosis (the mini-me skin engine) allows scripting with Automation sdk, but megamorphosis (the mega-me skin engine) does not?  This is not consistent and seems arbitrarily restrictive to me.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: kiwi on August 07, 2003, 10:02:07 pm
Quote

mini-me is our "Player Mode".  I think adding another mode on top of that doesn't give us much.  An easier or more obvious way to get to mini-me may be useful though.


I liked the idea of having a Mini-me skin that looks like just the top bar of the Mega-me skin, with an easy icon to switch between the two.

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Jynx on August 08, 2003, 12:12:05 am
Would it be possible to add the ability to drag and drop nodes of the Media Library tree onto a tool bar at the top (or bottom) of the screen, doing this would create a shortcut to that section of library on the toolbar?

This would allow you to add a shortcut to your CD drive or to your favorite playlist or to the playing now section etc without having to navigate your way through the tree, which I find a little frustrating.  I also think if by default you included a link to the CD drive it would make it easier on non MC experts as it would then be really obvious where you go to just play a CD.  At the moment access to your  CD drive is tucked away in the tree and is much more difficult to find than in say RealOne or MusicMatch


Jynx
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: nila on August 08, 2003, 01:15:26 am
Quote

  • Auto-sizing -- when we watched people use it before, they were always having to manually move the properties splitter.  Auto-sizing fixes that and it gets rid of clutter from splitters.  The challenge is to make it smart enough without making it feel like it's always moving.

I like seeing a dividing line between the media library and the properties though - not too into 'seemless blends' on things that are different.
I personally like setting it to a size and then leaving it there - I would suggest an option to have it 'auto resize' like you have for columns but no options so cant suggest that. Changing size just makes me uncomfortable as I cant get used to it being in a specific screen location

Quote

  • Smart item switching -- it makes sense to show a simple, graphical "Burn CD" page when the user says they want to burn a CD.  The same holds for building a playlist or Playing Now.  However, we don't want to always be shoving it in peoples faces.  When should it show up / auto-switch items?


Properties pane right now is limited to displaying A OR B OR C - to me this has always been a BIG limitation and forcing me to bounce between all the different screens meaning I rarely use most of them.
The ability to view two or more at a time would be a BIG improvement.

When I saw the big white space under the 'properties' pane I thought this was going to be the new drop target and to me it appeared perfect - a nice big zone to quickly drop files onto. Later I realised it wasn't and I have to again change out of properties to get to the drop target - why not let it be this white space?? Why make us use two seperate views for it?
Quote

  • Manual item switching -- already mentioned this, but we need to expose the tools and modes that are available but want a very clean look.  Right-click, auto-hide, or one button that opens a menu (like the Windows Start button) are some ideas.

If you mean switching between 'properties', 'playlists' etc then this I feel NEEDS to be just a bunch of buttons/tabs or SOMETHING that shows all available screens so we can just click on any of them to change - no right clicking, no hiding the available options - make all of them visible - this will REALLY help to make new users aware of the other options and will make it a LOT more intuitive and faster to use.
Also - as was suggested - if we could right click on the button for Drag, Drop and Go for instance to chose where it sends it to.

Quote

  • Other helpful pages -- what other things could be in the action window that would be helpful?  We've thought a "Tools" page that listed tools with an explanation and "Run Tool" button on it may be helpful.  Any other ideas?

What would the "Run Tool" do? I dont understand that one.
A page for Allowing us to display 'single panes' would be a VERY nice addition to allow us to use the list type from windows other than Media Library. At least that way we could tag one list type field at a time - better than none :)

CD Burning picture there is ugly :) lol - just had to say - I know its just a temp pic :)
The CD Burning should show a list of files in it - just like the other targets do so we can re-arrange them etc.

Also - some buttons appearing for these other modes would be VERY nice - 'Clear CD Playlist' 'Burn CD' etc - when sending to cd burner. would be great time savers allowing us to control this from elsewhere in MC other than just the 'Burning Window'.

Quote

  • How the "hidden" mode should look -- when the properties are minimized, what should it do?  If you put it in "Drag, Drop, & Go" it works just like the old Drop Target.  If it's in "File Properties", it's worthless.  Should it switch to "Drag, Drop & Go" in hidden mode, or is there some other slick thing we could do.


Hidden mode should just move it down to the bottom with a button saying: 'Show Properties' at the top - and a drop target maybe under that. Clicking on the 'Show Properties' button will instantly bring it back up to size and having a visible option on screen like that will help beginners not get worried when it disappears the first time.


Not sure what ur planning to do with the top but I DEFINITELY prefer the buttons to the left - track info in the middle.

Also DONT like having volume and position slider as two lines the same size under each other - its just not clear enough.

The buttons for Shuffle, Repeat etc also seem to be so non existant as to almost be invisible now - they need to be more prominant.

We also have buttons for next track - previous track - but what about fast forward rewind etc?

Quote
Changed: Pane splitter resizing more intuitive.

Got excited here thinking u meant panes resized :(
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 08, 2003, 01:16:03 am
Jynx.

Have u tried the Favourites menu?  I think you'll find it does exactly what you want...You canhave it as a drop down on your toolbar.  Right click the toolbar, customize and add the Favourites icon.  I think you can just drag and drop locations to it or right click in the tree and select add to favourites.

Adam
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Jynx on August 08, 2003, 02:03:05 am
Quote
Jynx.

Have u tried the Favourites menu?  I think you'll find it does exactly what you want...You canhave it as a drop down on your toolbar.  Right click the toolbar, customize and add the Favourites icon.  I think you can just drag and drop locations to it or right click in the tree and select add to favourites.


Thanks for this Adam, I had no idea this was there.  This favorites option pretty much does what I want, my only gripe is that it should be made easier to find & use.  

I would suggest not making an icon that you have find and add to the toolbar, but maybe make it a menu item instead so that it is more like the IE favorites menu that most people are familiar with.  It would also be great if you could drag & drop items into the menu and also if  “Add to Favorites” was one of the options when you right-click on an item in the Media Library tree


J
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: nila on August 08, 2003, 05:06:41 am
Quote

3) In the Action window you included Playing Now.

I dont seem to have this? Unless u mean first changing to the drop target - then 'add to playing now' - in which case I definitely think this should just be made as a main option:  ie:   Item To Show/Playing Now

Quote

That's ok, but the basic functionality of the property window has not really improved - just cosmetics.
Why are you so reluctant to group the fields according to media type and name them properly (audio, images, video as in Media Library)? And why are you so reluctant to have our own grouping as so many have asked for?


I agree with this. I know a lot of work has gone into it and I'm sure it's only half done but so far I've lost all the old buttons we used to have - I LIKE buttons - I dont seem to understand why MC seems to be based on few or no buttons = good.
If it's not then thats great but it seems to be.

Also - using the properties panel itself hasn't become any easier. I'm still stuck with the same grouping for which fields I can display and the grouping as it currently is just isn't helpful or particularly useful.

If we're not going to be aloud to make our own custom groups then I personally feel it would make a LOT more sense to just scap the idea of groups here - I seriously doubt most people remember what fields are in each group - If I'm wrong sorry.
They're just not logical though - If you go to file info group - Filename and Filepath aren't even there - they're in calculated - sure they're calculated fields but they're File Info fields more importantly.

If we cant customise groups it would make a LOT more sense to just have a toggle button: All Fields/Current View - with a check box for: Show Read Only fields - make the options visible by means of a GUI.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Herakles on August 08, 2003, 05:40:03 am
I like the new drag, drop & go, but wouldn't it have been more user-friendly and powerful to just add a button in the location bar allowing the associated view to be opened in it's own window?? That way you could be in Playing Now with a couple of playlist opened at the same time! That would be really useful! Oh and including the appropriate location bar in the new window and allowing drag & drop between windows would be nice too!

I know that the drag, drop & go can be opened in it's own window but you can only have one and a new user would have to dig too far to just know that the drag, drop & go is for and getting to playing now list is 3 menu deep...

Please feel free to develop on the idea...
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 08, 2003, 05:51:00 am
Quote


I liked the idea of having a Mini-me skin that looks like just the top bar of the Mega-me skin, with an easy icon to switch between the two.


yeah iam with you.. and with trans color we can play with the interface as mini-me appearence...

and it would be better to click the same button again to get it compacted more and give us a toolbar mode with a hight bigger than the player button a while.. and be placed upper the start menu bar... with button to open the library too :)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: BuiltToSpill on August 08, 2003, 07:12:34 am
Quote
and it would be better to click the same button again to get it compacted more and give us a toolbar mode with a hight bigger than the player button a while.. and be placed upper the start menu bar... with button to open the library too  


ToMy00-
I think this is a really great idea.

To expand on that, maybe an icon in the systems trey could be added so that when clicked on, expands this "mini-me" top bar, and when clicked on again, minimizes it to the systems trey.  


Another thing i thought would be interesting is an icon in the system trey that when hovered over, displayed a box with the "Playing Now" information and maybe...... maybe an option that lets you go to the last or next track?  

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: modelmaker on August 08, 2003, 07:47:19 am
I think the placement of the player controls and the icons are counter- intuitive.

Player controls on most audio and video devices are at the bottom or to one side (in a mini mode or like a car deck). Is it really neccessary for everyone to have to relearn a behavior that has become "natural" - just to be  different?                                                                                                                                                                         The same goes for the position and volume bars, they were perfectly fine next  to each other and above the player controls. It's too easy now to move the wrong slider now, which would mean an unpleasant change in volume or inadvertant interruption in our listening pleasure.

I also don't get why the tool icons are separated from the tool tabs (File, Edit, Tools View & Help). It seems to make more sense to have all the "tools" grouped together.

For an "advanced" newbie (me!), MC is  very powerful, but sometimes a bit intimidating in it's complexity, why add to that by changing some of these basic controls that we've all gotten used to. I guess I just don't see where these changes improve the functionallity or the look of this great program.

Just one "opinion".
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: knickelfarz on August 08, 2003, 08:21:40 am
Quote
  • Auto-sizing...
  • Smart item switching...
  • Manual item switching...
  • Other helpful pages...
  • How the "hidden" mode should look...

Mmh, that's a long "wish list"... ;)

I'm really wondering how all those things (together with 'building a playlist or Playing Now / "Tools" page  / "Burn CD" page') should ever be squeezed into that small "Action Window" - possibly without more than one button, without tabs, without text or icons that display what's opened currently...
I'm afraid that it will be only as "clean as possible" when it's hidden :P

As JimH always says: "NOTHING IS SET IN STONE" ... what about the vertical splitter?
I think it's OK to have something like this







Playerbar
--------------------------------------------
Tree|
------------------| Library or Playing Now
Action Window |

when only little content is shown in the "Action Window" (properties or an image, for example). But if there are shown tools and especially lists, wouldn't it be nice if the "Action Window" could expand ("auto-sizing"...) not only to the top (inside the tree area) but also to the right - like below?







Playerbar
--------------------------------------------
Tree| Library or Playing Now
--------------------------------------------
Action Window

Does it make sense? Impossible? Or is it far too much work for 9.1 ?  ;)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: mkutsen on August 08, 2003, 08:45:15 am
1)Dragging the scroll bar in the options menu changes the appearance of the scroll bar from MC skin style to the default windows style and back, making scrolling very jerky.  This bug has been there forever!  
   
2)When one uses ASIO for streaming web content, switching stations causes stuttering and occasionally crashes.  

3) MC downloads *.rm files instead of streaming them    
This is an old bug.  
     
3) I also liked selective text for tool bar buttons.  
 
4) Double-clicking on empty space in Hairstyle doesn't switch you bakc to MEGA-ME anymore.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: clout on August 08, 2003, 08:45:39 am
knickelfarz wrote:
Quote
when only little content is shown in the "Action Window" (properties or an image, for example). But if there are shown tools and especially lists, wouldn't it be nice if the "Action Window" could expand ("auto-sizing"...) not only to the top (inside the tree area) but also to the right


I like this idea. As we now have the "Action Window" how about looking at Knickelfarz's suggestion from the "split panes" thread".
Quote
http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm
.
This to me seems to be the ideal solution.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: nila on August 08, 2003, 09:08:42 am
woah

nice screen shot - VERY nice work on that.

I LOVE how it looks :)
Love the tabs.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: DJ_Hazelwood on August 08, 2003, 09:21:57 am
Hi!

I've played around with the new version and here are my first impressions:

:( The playerbar at the top looked better in the previous versions. It was well arranged, now it looks a little bit 'nervous'. But it is a work in progress ...  :D

;D The changed properties-area with the new 'Drag, drop ,go'-view is great. Now we can see what we play and search in the library at the same time. That's what a DJ needs  8)

I think you're on the right way.

Thanks very much for your work.


Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: clout on August 08, 2003, 09:40:40 am
Quote
The changed properties-area with the new 'Drag, drop ,go'-view is great. Now we can see what we play and search in the library at the same time. That's what a DJ needs  

I think you're on the right way.


I agree. But.
As a DJ also I need to see more fields than casn show in the "Action Window" in particular "Genre" & BPM, so I can quickly scan to find an appropriate spot to drop a particular song into the playlist.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: jleerigby on August 08, 2003, 10:16:14 am
Suggestion to improve the look:

The toolbar buttons are really colorful but ONLY if you hover over them.  The rest of the time they are grey or white and bland looking.  MC would look so much better if the buttons were permanently colored.

All skins are like this making me think it's not something the skinners have any control over.  Hopefully this would be a simple change.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: gkerber on August 08, 2003, 10:29:20 am
Couple of questions for those that have been playing with this for a while.

I can't seem to get properties up at all.  I had it once.  I highlight some tracks, and press alt-enter and the playing now display goes away, no properties.  Alt- enter again and the playing now comes back.  ?

Is undocked properties still there?  

How do everyone enter properties in that little docked properties area in the lower left of the screen under the tree?  I can't see all that am entering.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: nila on August 08, 2003, 10:57:48 am
gkerber - U have to right click on that 'playing now' window - one of the options in the right click lets you change it back to properties.

It's not particularly intuitive right now - but as they said - its a work in progress.

Also - when we right click on a file and choose 'properties' - it should ALWAYS take us to the properties pane - that is what we are chosing - making 'Drag Drop and Go' appear is not what we wanted to do - we chose properties.
ie. whenever we chose to open properties - it needs to change to this screen if it's open and needs to open on this screen if it's hidden.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: dragyn on August 08, 2003, 01:22:24 pm
Quote


Looks fantastic and good idea!


That's the way I would like to see it. Files in that little window doesn't do anything for me. The only
thing I would use it for would be for images.

I liked the drop target at the top like in 226. I can see where things would go, imported files, etc.





Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: ChrisRainman on August 08, 2003, 01:51:42 pm
Great development so far! I don't want to comment presently existing bugs (you probably know most of them) - I have just three small suggestions which might be easy to implement:

1. The options for saving views you improved a lot during the last releases. What about an additional option to lock views. Especially this would prevent me from changing my sortings accidentally by clicking on a column header.

2. When organizing duplicates I somtimes would love an option to copy all tag fields to another file. Something like copy tags / paste tags would be great.

3. You've made a change for tag searches not long ago. When searching from within a view scheme you display an option to search the full database.
Couldn't you display this option for all cases I don't search through the whole database? I mean, I could have found one file in the current view scheme but overall this artist exist 10 times. So I would like to say "ok scan the rest" in an easy way.

One more suggestion:
After finishing the 9.1 release why don't you start a marketing campaign involving all these enthusiastic users like myself?
8)These users are from all over the world. MC is less popular as it would deserve (at least in Germany). There are lot's of online-magazines who test this kind of software every view months and often users are publishing their favorite pieces of software. Request your users to have a good word for you and support your public perception! I am sure there is a large potential!

By the way: the http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm suggestion is great!
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Polonio on August 08, 2003, 01:56:11 pm
Quote
http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm


I don't know if it is necessary say it. But I obviously like this "Drag, Drop, and Go" GUI.

As anyone else.

Of course.

PS: Probably it is the first (and last) time MC crew agree in something.  :)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 08, 2003, 02:05:46 pm
Chris,

You can already do 1

The reason your views are changing when you resort is probably cause you have the option set in Tree and View settings to save all changes.  Unchek this, set the scheme how you want it then right clk one of the columns and select save view scheme.

I think you can copy and paste tags too using CtrlC and CtrlV but dont quote me on that one!!

Adam
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Quisp on August 08, 2003, 02:07:34 pm
Quote

By the way: the http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm suggestion is great!


I agree, is there any way this type of interface could be developed as a plug-in similar to what Rhino has been doing with AV? The top part is a little busy but the bottom is instantly intuative and demonstrates the power and possibilities of MC very simply and eloquently.

There are so many problems solved (for the endu$er, this one anyway...) with this one little picture, quite amazing.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: ChrisRainman on August 08, 2003, 02:34:27 pm
Quote
You can already do 1
The reason your views are changing when you resort is probably cause you have the option set in Tree and View settings to save all changes.  Unchek this, set the scheme how you want it then right clk one of the columns and select save view scheme.


Maybe I did not explain exactly. I mean just to be able to deactivate all view related functions by checking a new menu entry ("Lock View") in the view schemes.

But in the end it's a matter of preferences. Your suggestion is another possibility to deal with it.

Copying tags is not possible. One after another is possible but not a solution. My cases are like the following: There is one song you stored at two locations. I decide to delete one of them (bad quality) but for this file I've done my tagging. So I want to copy all tag fields to the new one and finally delete the first file.

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Jaguu on August 08, 2003, 02:40:23 pm
Quote
decide to delete one of them (bad quality) but for this file I've done my tagging. So I want to copy all tag fields to the new one and finally delete the first file.

Chris,
you can do that. There is a function "Copy/Move fields". You select the fields you want to copy or move and then do it in one go!
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Cindy_B on August 08, 2003, 02:52:14 pm
Quote
Smartlists seem to have stopped working. Every smartlist returns a list of everything in the Media Library.

I'm using Windows XP, MC v9.1.228

The system info option under help keeps giving an invalid argument error.


Same problem using Windows 2000.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: NoCodeUK on August 08, 2003, 02:57:27 pm
If you click back then forward they work okay...
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: ChrisRainman on August 08, 2003, 03:09:13 pm
Quote

Chris,
you can do that. There is a function "Copy/Move fields". You select the fields you want to copy or move and then do it in one go!


Am I blind??? There is such a function but only for using it within one file which is a rare application case. I mean copying tags from one file to another. Are you sure this is possible?
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Rands on August 08, 2003, 03:33:30 pm
http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm

That gets my vote except that I'd put it beneath the status bar so it can appear and disappear without affecting the rest of the GUI (aka. kind of like QuickTime's drawer at the bottom).

I know it probably won't happen but this looks nice, clean, effective, and scalable.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Cindy_B on August 08, 2003, 03:50:56 pm
Quote
I just noticed that you can't re-order items in the Playing Now split pane. You can choose where to drop them, but once they're there, there's no moving them without going to the real Playing Now. I hope that'll be addressed.


I can move songs around, however it's does not update until the next song starts playing.   The both ("Drag & Drop" & "Playing Now") lists are then updated.

It's very difficult to find the current playing song on Drag & Drop playlist.  A highlight or arrow on the current playing song would be great.

You guys are awsome!

Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: RemyJ on August 08, 2003, 07:06:01 pm
Just downloaded to see what would cause this thread to go over 100 in such a short time.

At first glance...

Like the new properties window and search location.

Don't like the new player window.   The old way was a much better use of real estate and would have been perfect with the move of the search box.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: DJ_Hazelwood on August 08, 2003, 11:05:59 pm
Quote

It's very difficult to find the current playing song on Drag & Drop playlist.  A highlight or arrow on the current playing song would be great.

I think this depends on the used skin. I am currently using ToMy00's Windows-Media-Skin, where the actual song is highlighted in green.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Ingo on August 09, 2003, 01:03:26 am
gets my vote.....

multi column properties would probably be a great plus

Ingo
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: chezchas on August 09, 2003, 03:02:08 am
Quote
Smartlists seem to have stopped working. Every smartlist returns a list of everything in the Media Library.

I'm using Windows XP, MC v9.1.228



I'm having the same problem. Same configuration.  

(I'm a new user. MC 9 is awesome!!!! Hands down, it's the best, easiest, most comprehensive media tool out there.)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: jleerigby on August 09, 2003, 03:15:19 am
Quote
Great work guys. The direction is good and I have a feeling you'll make all the needed "polish" as quickly as you can code it. So, I have no suggestions just yet on how the new stuff should work, other than making "quick click" iconic tabs to switch between the six "Item To Show" options. No text, to save space, just tooltips to further describe to newbies what each tab icon switches to.

Also, on a related "change the interface" vein: it's my opinion that the "Media Center Display" area that currently shows above the Playing Now area should actually show *below* it now. This would keep the top sub toolbar at the very top, so that the browsing back and forward buttons are always in the same place on the screen. Currently, all other areas within MC show the back and forward in that same place, but you have to go hunt them down when in Playing Now.

Again, awesome direction guys!

Oh, and those quick click iconic tabs should probably be along the bottom of the new active window thing, that way they don't move when the area resizes itself.

I think Pensive Chimp has summed it up rather well.  This release shows MC moving in the right direction.  Just a bit of polish needed now.  What I'm really looking for to improve usability is to be able to quickly access the options you need WITHOUT right clicking.  Some tabs or icons to change the items in view in teh action window would be ideal.  I also think that the list of available toolbar buttons needs to be extended considerably - to include for example virtually all those functions that are currently available from the right click menu like shuffle, clear playing now etc.

Great work.  Thanks.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Pink Waters on August 09, 2003, 03:44:21 am
Quote
http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm


You got my vote too :)
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: LisaRCT on August 09, 2003, 06:10:23 am
it would be rather amusing if they really had no new changes planned, but merely baited us into designing it for them . . . .
it could make for an interesting experiment as well as possibly leading to a great interface.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: zevele10 on August 09, 2003, 07:18:15 am
Straight to 'Burn Cd' to see if process more friendly.
Got a small window on the left with a pack of blank cds on it.
I was sure that it was a window to show you the files you put in the burning project.-GREAT i said.....
But after a first selection ,i lost the left window and got an 'Track Info' in the tollsbar.
Clicking on it give me a 10 milles long window and BLANK

If i use Alt-Enter to see the properties of one song ,i got a blank full screen window with the same pack of blank cds picture.

One of us is messing around
Me?
MC?
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: chezchas on August 09, 2003, 04:40:55 pm
No pop-up menu is displayed when I right-click on a selected file or group of selected files in the right-hand frame. That is, I don't get the menu that allows you to "Add to Playlist," etc. This is true when Media Library is selected in the Organization Tree in the left-hand frame (or any of the subchoices uner Audio Library -- e.g., Artists/Albums, etc.). It's also true when any Playlists or Smartlists are selected.  But it is NOT true when my iPod drive is selected under CD, DVD, & Handhelds. That is, I DO get the pop-up menu when I right-click on files in my iPod -- I can then "Add to Playlist" etc. I just can't do this for files in my Media Library which resides on my laptop.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or if I'm doing something wrong, but I thought I should report it.

I'm using MC 9.1.228 and Windows XP with all updates applied. iPod is 5GB model with 1.3 updated frimware.

chezchas
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: chezchas on August 09, 2003, 06:42:25 pm
When I copy and paste a group of files (e.g., an album's worth) from Media Library to a Playlist or from one Playlist to another, the group of files is pasted in reverse order. This requires some manual fussing around to straighten them out.

Not sure if this is an outright bug or not, but I thought I should report it. It would be much more convenient if groups of files were pasted in the same order in which they were copied.

MC 9.1.228, Windows XP with all updates applied

chezchas
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: jleerigby on August 09, 2003, 11:04:26 pm
1. Right clicking an item in the panes selects that item.  The item should only be selected on left click (like the tree following your recent fix).

2. In the right click menu on the panes there is an option to reset selection.  This only resets the selected pane, which of course you can do more easily by clicking 'all' so I think this menu option should reset all panes.

3. We've debated in another thread whether the panes should reset when changing a selection on the left.  There was common agreement that this behaviour significantly reduces the power of the panes making all views work in a heirarchical fashion.  As some views (especially images but some music too) are not heirarchical there needs to be some way to have some view schemes set up so as not to reset.  I'm hoping that this one is fairly high on the agenda for change as it seems such a shame to have a great feature like panes and reduce their usefulness in this way.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: nameless on August 10, 2003, 07:14:45 am
The 9.1.226 thread is locked.  JimH said not to report bugs on the 9.1.228 build.  So how do we report bugs?

I am running 9.1.226, and I have the same issue with CD burning that Nila reported in the 9.1.226 thread:

Quote
Burning doesn't seem to work. Screen to burn comes up as if it's about to start. The information box goes white (no repainting and so does the windows task bar) then it just sits there.

When this happens, MC isn't using any CPU.  It's just sitting there, and the only option is to kill it.

I'm not going to bother with my specs, because this problem has been haunting me since I switched to 9.0.  Basically, it's a persistent problem with all the versions and builds.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Ken Brookings on August 10, 2003, 03:29:07 pm
Changing Playing Mode from Player pull down has no effect.  
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Ken Brookings on August 10, 2003, 03:31:43 pm
I can't burn with .228 because of problems already reported.  Can't go back to previous versions because it won't recognize my library and tells me to go back to the latest version.

Help - get me out of this; gotta burn some promised CD's .
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: jleerigby on August 10, 2003, 09:59:36 pm
Quote
I can't burn with .228 because of problems already reported.  Can't go back to previous versions because it won't recognize my library and tells me to go back to the latest version.

Help - get me out of this; gotta burn some promised CD's .

Didn't you back up your library before installing?  You should always do this.  Have you tried creating a new library once you've reverted back to 226 and then reimporting your files?  
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Ken Brookings on August 11, 2003, 07:45:42 am
yes, library is backed up with every change.  Library issues work fine in .228, just can't go back to earlier version.  
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: jleerigby on August 11, 2003, 08:35:25 am
If you've backed up your library there shouldn't be any problem going back to 9.1.226.  I've already had it confirmed by JimH that it should work and Marko (I think) that it did work (that he's successfully reverted from 228 to 226).  If you can't go back I recommend you start another thread giving as much info as possible - like the sequence of events, what error messages you get and when, what you've tried etc.
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Ken Brookings on August 11, 2003, 08:58:38 am
JLee, thanks much for the help, guess I didn't state the problem accurately.  I can go back to .226 but I can't burn CDs in that version (problem reported by several people so I assume to be fixed soon.  My problem was I had to burn some CDs I'd promised for a wedding.  Couldn't go back to .180 or other older versions and couldn't burn in newest revs.

Anyhow downloaded a trial competitor program, remade Playlists, burned the CDs I needed.
Again, thanks for the thoughts

Ken
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: jleerigby on August 11, 2003, 09:09:51 am
Quote
Anyhow downloaded a trial competitor program, remade Playlists, burned the CDs I needed...
You must be mistaken.  There is no competition for MC!
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: Bartabedian on August 11, 2003, 11:00:52 am
Since it's three pages long, excuse me for not reading every post to find out if this has been reported:

Anybody else notice the random "right click works now it doesn't" routine?
Title: Re: If you're bored...
Post by: jleerigby on August 11, 2003, 11:11:37 am
Quote
Since it's three pages long, excuse me for not reading every post to find out if this has been reported:

Anybody else notice the random "right click works now it doesn't" routine?
Yes.  Had it 3 times but can't find the pattern.  Still trying to recreate it.  When it does happen if you click on another view then back again it's OK.

I've also noticed that it's not possible to display the action window using the toolbar button if no tracks are selected.