INTERACT FORUM
Windows => Television => Topic started by: robt on August 27, 2017, 09:52:21 am
-
I posted a question in the hardware area a week or so ago and no replies. I've investigated further so with more info I'm going to try again but from a different angle.
If I play back tv on my server machine, and then run a photo slideshow via the shared library on another machine, the tv picture pixelates as each picture is shown.
If I use HDHomeruns own app to play the tv on the server, and then access the slide show again, it has no effect on tv playback. MC is still running in the background.
So the conclusion seems to be that MC in trying to play tv and serve photos (held on a remote nas) allows one task to affect the other. Is that a reasonable conclusion? If so, what can be done??
-
Well don't go the two NUCs as you suggested in the other thread.
You would need to watch the load on all CPU Cores in the NUC to see if one is carrying a high load. However, there have been enough reports of issues with TV recordings that possibly there is something amiss in MC. The fact that you can play a Blu-ray on the NUC and serve another Blu-ray to a Client would suggest that the NUC isn't underpowered.
Even I have seen some very minor breakup in recordings, mostly as the program starts playing and is settling down, but occasionally at other times, and I'm running a PCIe DVB-T multi-tuner card, so it isn't just recordings produced on a HDHomeRUn tuner.
This is one for Yaobing I think. I'm pretty sure he is already working on it.
-
Running MC23.0.21 from 17 July 2017
Still?
-
Still?
Nah. I put the date beside the version so readers can see when I updated to that version, and form a conclusion about how up to date I stay. I don't update the signature that often, but I do update MC. Currently on the latest Beta version on my Server and Client.
-
From the description, I can think of two things, the hard disk usage and network usage.
Are TV recordings on the same disk as the MC library files?
-
The pixelation only occurs when I play back live tv. I haven't tried to record tv and play the slide show on the other machine but I can try if it helps.
My setup has win 10 on an m.2 ssd, a seperate 128 gb ssd in the server on which I record tv, and a seperate Nas which stores everything else.
If I play back recorded tv, and run a photo slide show on the slave machine, the recording play back remains perfect. Same if I play a bluray rip stores on the nas, all good.
Hope that makes sense.
The tv recordings are kept on the same (ssd) disc as the library files.
-
Have we given up on this?
Its a very easily reproduceable and consistent issue.
-
We
(http://img.picturequotes.com/2/323/322639/never-give-up-never-surrender-quote-1.jpg)
Try doing what Greynolds did with his HDHomeRun setup, and see if it makes a difference.
FWIW, so far today, I have gone into the SiliconDust Setup application and forced it to save and re-save the relevant settings (by flipping them back and forth) and there's also a "Repair/Reinstall Windows component" button that I clicked.
That hasn't solved his problem, but it may fix yours. Worth a try, as the problem could have been caused by a Windows update forced upon you, which may have broken some of the SiliconDust setup.
-
IMO, using any NUC for a MC Server would never cut it for my whole home setup. If I were you, I would build a PC and hide it somewhere as the MC Server and use the NUC's for clients.
-
IMO, using any NUC for a MC Server would never cut it for my whole home setup. If I were you, I would build a PC and hide it somewhere as the MC Server and use the NUC's for clients.
A NUC is just another computer. You might have a NUC that could run circles around the PC you built. It's just a form factor.
-
Let's see if we can find someone (besides the OP). I'd never do it. Hey everybody - speak up if you are using a NUC as a MC server for Tv server/recording.
-
There is plenty of evidence that a NUC6i3 can be used as a Media Server, Media Center, Games PC, etc. on the web.
But there have been some issues. https://communities.intel.com/thread/98481 https://forums.plex.tv/discussion/212787/intel-nuc6i3-experience
Nuc6i3 with 12 gb ram and Win 10 64
JRMark (version 23.0.30): 2759
Yes, until recently RO Standard has been fine but ROHQ has all sorts of issues of screen stutter and breakup. Until the last few days, things have been fine so I dont know whats happened. But I do have a recording which shows chronic artifacts which I see when I play back on a different monitor. Not quite sure what to make of that.
So, as I'm considering another NUC for the lounge, do you recommend a bit more power? I thought the i3 would be sufficient but how far would I need to go to achieve ROHQ? Can any NUC manage that? Or is it a graphics chip issue?
So Robt in addition to the using the "Repair/Reinstall Windows component" function in the SoliconDust software, you should make sure you have the latest BIOS and Drivers on your NUC, particularly for the iGPU.
I don't think there is enough evidence to say that throwing more hardware at this sort of problem fixes it. Mind you, the new NUCs look good. The INTEL® NUC KIT NUC7i5BNHX1 looks like my pick at the moment, with "Intel® Core™ i5-7260U Processor", "Intel® Iris™ Plus Graphics 640", "HDMI 2.0a; USB-C (DP1.2) Graphics Output", and still a 15W TDP.
https://www.intel.com.au/content/www/au/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/kits.html
https://www.intel.com.au/content/www/au/en/products/compare-products.html?productIds=122938,122939,122940
https://ark.intel.com/products/97539/Intel-Core-i5-7260U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_40-GHz
As always though, Intel specs are a bit, inconsistent. The processor says it supports HDMI 1.4, while the NUC that uses it says HDMI 2.0a. A big difference.
-
Since the original post I have reinstalled Win 10, MC and also the Silicon Dust software. I only installed whats needed for its HTPC role and interestingly it can now manage ROHQ where before it did have all kinds of glitches. The Jmark score has also gone up so there may have been some driver issues or something. I have monitored the hardware when running tv with ROHQ and it certainly is pushing it hard. The gpu is occasionally hitting 100% and the temperature for the cpu and gpu is around 77 c but it manages.
The other screen artifacts I reported have been resolved, that was the crop edges setting in MC.
However, the pixellation when using it to serve photos as a slide show is still present. There is little hit on the cpu when doing this and its sitting at less than 20% even when playing tv. I too thought the i3U was probably underpowered for the role but the fact that I can play multiple bluray mkvs without a problem doesnt seem to support that. The problem seems to be the nature of the slide show, ie frequent burst of data required that seems to create the problem.
I have been looking at alternatives to the NUC, self build, ready build, other types of mini pc and nothing seems to fit the way the NUC does. I would have bought a NUC7i5BNH by now but there are problems with 4k playback (acknowledged by Intel) on all the 7 series NUCs and I'm waiting for Intel to come up with a fix. Its been ongoing for a couple of months and its not looking good for a fix. I already have ram and an M.2 ssd waiting!
In the meantime, Im having a new aerial fitted this week to make sure I have the best tv signal I can. There is room for a bit higher quality signal so the aerials going from the loft to outside and I will report if that makes any difference, but I dont expect it to address this particular issue.
I will try and record the pixellation effect and make the recording available.
-
Do try the SiliconDust "Repair/Reinstall Windows component" function. As you have reinstalled, all Windows updates would have reinstalled. So they could have broken that setup again.
Can't hurt to try.
-
Where is the TV time-shift / record folder on robt's setup? I hope it's a non-OS SATA drive on the NUC (not the NAS).
A JRiver MC Server for TV is now a different animal than it was before. First- for network tuners the cpu usage for TV has doubled/tripled from previous versions of MC, and that cpu increase is even more for every tuner put into use. Second- JRiver buffers two streams of the show on the hard drive (when recording). Ideally a MC Server should be using a non-OS local SATA drive, then if needed move the recordings to externals later. So if you watch live tv on a client- the tuner stream goes over the network to the Server, stores on the time-shift drive, then streams back out to the client. If that time-shift drive is an NAS, I wonder how many trips over the network are going on? Is that stream going over the network through the Server, back out to the NAS, back to the Server, then out to the client?
-
Ok, have tried the repair / reinstall and no change. Disappointing.
The time shift / record folder is a separate SSD fitted in the NUC. Windows is on a separate M.2 SSD so the network traffic is minimised. My network is all gigabit and I have happily streamed 3 blu ray rips (full rate), one on the NUC, one via the NUC and also to a set top box all at the same time so happy the network capacity is there.
Here is a link to a short (36 mb) clip I recorded of live tv while running a slide show via the NUC to another machine. I think it illustrates the regular break up of the picture which coincides with the slide show.
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ai-1deBMEUdimkcDIN2HRfqB9W0n (https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ai-1deBMEUdimkcDIN2HRfqB9W0n)
Interestingly, every second picture in this slide show was a raw file and was not displayed, but the breakup still happened. I have watched the cpu while this is going on and the load is under 20% and doesn't "spike" for the pictures. I turned the output down to ROS and the cpu/gpu was running considerably cooler and less stressed so there was loads of headroom in terms of computing power available.
The breakup in this video is not too bad, on many other occasions the whole screen has gone pink or green and then immediately returns to normal picture.
-
I have tried to reproduce the issue but could not. I ran a live TV on my work computer as server, and a laptop as client. There does not seem to be a correlation. It does not matter whether I tried image slide show, or audio, or even video on the client, I do not see any regular breakups of TV video. I am at a loss.
-
Yaobing
Thanks for having a look. Strangely it is only the image slide show that does this, not audio or video playback. I take it you've seen the video, does the breakup give you any clues? What causes the picture to pixelate in that way, other than signal loss?
Although my other observations seem to show the NUC as being more than capable, I'm beginning to think it must be the NUC that has the problem. Of course, it can be avoided by not running a slideshow on a client but I do get a bit OCD about getting to the bottom of these issues!
-
You video seems to have a glitch every 5 seconds. But I can't think of what has caused it.
-
Yes, and 5 seconds is the setting for the slideshow duration.
Is there any value in my creating a log file?
-
Is there any value in my creating a log file?
Create one anyway.
-
Yes, and 5 seconds is the setting for the slideshow duration.
Try changing slideshow duration to 10 seconds, or 2 seconds, and see if you still get the correlation.
-
With slideshow reset to ten seconds, the pixelation occurs as expected every ten seconds. There is no doubt of that link between activity and effect.
I have attached a log run while a slideshow was requested and live tv played.
Hope it might show something...
-
Your log file does not reveal anything obvious. I see that playback of a live channel was going on, and the server was server files to a client.
One thing I notice was that while those two things were going on, over-the-air EPG scanning was also going on. This probably is an coincidence. You don't happen to set your EPG scanning at a very high frequency, do you?
-
Ok, think its time to accept its the Nuc that's having the issue. I use the ota epg because the download stopped working a while ago but its only supposed to download once a day at 4 in the morning.
Thanks for investigating. My plan is to get another and more powerful Nuc in the near future (NUC7i5) and we will see if it has a bit more head room. Not until they've sorted the ongoing 4k issues of course!
Cheers
-
I'm still thinking the problem shouldn't happen, even on your NUCi3.
If you were interested you could try installing Microsoft's Process Explorer (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer), or one of the other Sysinternals tools such as Process Monitor (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon), and see if you can identify any process that is consuming lots of resources every ten seconds. That is a frustrating process but it might highlight some cause.
-
Ok, thanks for that. I'll give it a go this evening and report back.
It would be great to get to the reason for this.
Thanks
-
In the software that I work with at my day job (also video related), I find that dual channel RAM makes a huge difference. Are you running dual channel, or single? If you have 2 sticks of RAM, are they the exact same specs? With intel GPU's, they share memory with the system, so while loading textures, and playing video, you may be running into the RAM being just a bit slow if it is in single channel mode.
-
Thats an interesting point.
My NUC currently has two sticks of ram, both Samsung DDR4-2132 but one is 4gb and the other 8gb. Its just what I had but I have another two matched sticks, both 4gb currently unused.
I could swap them in if you think the size difference might be relevant?
-
Worth a shot. I've heard stories of different size sticks working in dual channel, and other stories claiming it didn't work.
It should be easy to swap and try, and 8gb shouldn't be limiting for the most part.
-
Ok. I'll give it a go tomorrow and report back.
Thanks for the suggestion.
-
Have swapped the memory for the two matched so dimms - sadly no change in the pixelation effect.
It was worth a try :)
-
Does turning logging off make any difference?
-
Do you mean logging on the Help menu > Uncheck the box "Output to a log file"?
It was on, I've switched it off now and no improvement.......
-
Do you mean logging on the Help menu > Uncheck the box "Output to a log file"?
It was on, I've switched it off now and no improvement.......
That was what I meant. I have seen situations where turning it off helped.