INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 23 for Windows => Topic started by: winterwolf on October 15, 2017, 08:52:22 pm
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According to Tidal support: With the desktop app and/or a non-MQA DAC you will get 24bit/88.2 (96) kHz. I am using 64 bit JRiver version with WDM driver. I have a McIntosh DAC in ASIO mode.
Looking at the JRiver input/output it seems to just produce 48kHz rather then the advertised 96kHz. Tidal or JRiver issue?
thx for input.
-- WW
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Isn't this because 'that's how the WDM driver works'. . .
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112524.0.html (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112524.0.html)
Spike
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Connect Tidal directly to the DAC without MC and confirm that you are getting 24/88(or 96). Tidal needs exclusive access set to decode MQA.
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Thx for the replies,
The WDM driver should take as input whatever Tidal outputs. Looking at the “audio path” feature, I see only a 48kHz input.
@dtc: I tried that. The problem is my McIntosh Driver does not do automatic ASIO switching properly (I have to hand set it), so I can not confirm what Tidal outputs. The ASIO switching works fine with JRiver WDM driver.
@spike Not sure where to look for in the thread that is relevant to this topic?
I have set Tidal to Exclusive Mode with Forced Volume. When I use flac files, the audio path shows the correct input bitrate and frequency and my DAC is set accordingly. It is only with TIDAL, where I get not above 48kHz (even though it is everywhere documented it should do 96kHz).
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Does Tidal say Master or HiFI in the bottom right when you are playing. It needs to say Master.
I am not a regular WDM user, but when I try to get Master files to play through WDM, the system crashes - BSOD. That's with 64 bit version on W7. That's why I am not a regular user.
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@dts: It says Master
The BSOD is a known Tidal bug. They have send me a custom version to try that fixed the issue for me. Should be fixed in a future update.
-- WW
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I don't know that it's a TIDAL bug.
I just loaded up Foobar2000 to test MC's WDM driver in exclusive mode and it instantly bluescreened with a "Bad Pool Header" error.
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@spike Not sure where to look for in the thread that is relevant to this topic?
The whole thread is relevant. It discusses and explains why you are getting what you are seeing.
In a nutshell, unless the audio source (Tidal) can output in Exclusive Mode the audio is handled in Shared Mode by Windows, and so the Windows Mixer gets involved and resamples the audio to the bit depth and sample rate that the target device supports. In this case, the target device is the JRiver WDM Driver.
Set the Default Format for Shared Mode in the WDM properties to 24/96 and your Master audio should be passed through at 24/96 without resampling, but everything else will be upsampled to 24/96.
It is a Tidal (doesn't support Exclusive Mode output) and Windows (always mixes to the Shared Mode format) problem.
EDIT: If Foobar in Exclusive Mode bluescreened, that is probably a different issue, and maybe a problem with the WDM Driver.
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The whole thread is relevant. It discusses and explains why you are getting what you are seeing.
In a nutshell, unless the audio source (Tidal) can output in Exclusive Mode the audio is handled in Shared Mode by Windows, and so the Windows Mixer gets involved and resamples the audio to the bit depth and sample rate that the target device supports. In this case, the target device is the JRiver WDM Driver.
Set the Default Format for Shared Mode in the WDM properties to 24/96 and your Master audio should be passed through at 24/96 without resampling, but everything else will be upsampled to 24/96.
It is a Tidal (doesn't support Exclusive Mode output) and Windows (always mixes to the Shared Mode format) problem.
EDIT: If Foobar in Exclusive Mode bluescreened, that is probably a different issue, and maybe a problem with the WDM Driver.
Tidal does support Exclusive Mode output through its own application, not through a browser. It is required for decoding MQA files. Tidal works fine in Exclusive Mode to most usb DACs. It has some issues with Exclusive Mode when MQA was first supported, but those are pretty much fixed. Not sure what this new BSOD issue is.
The question seems to be whether Tidal can connect with WDM in Exclusive Mode. Can other applications connect to WDM in Exclusive Mode? I do not use WDM so I do not know the details.
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To the OP: somehow you must be going through the Windows mixer from tidal to the WDM driver. If you weren't though, you would have the BSOD error that occurs when tidal in exclusive mode switches rate.
At least it can easily be avoided now that tidal has introduced the ability to limit playback to HiFi. That works well for me.
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I am using MC 23 64 bit on W7. I ran MC 22 separately and set its output to WDM with Exclusive Mode set. It ran fine at higher resolutions including 24/96 and 24/192. Audio Path confirmed that the input sample rate on MC 23 was either 96 or 192. So, WDM is doing what it is supposed to do, at least with another version of MC acting as the input.
It appears that Tidal may not be taking Exclusive control of the WDM. Since Tidal sent you a trial version, you could ask them to test it with WDM and see what they get with a current build MC. I'd be happy to test a new version for them.
Unfortunately, I cannot test Tidal since when I select WDM, I get a BSOD.
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You could let Tidal know that we can provide a license. Just send me their details. I'm jimh at jriver.
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I am using MC 23 64 bit on W7. I ran MC 22 separately and set its output to WDM with Exclusive Mode set.
Nice idea for testing Exclusive Mode input. Well done.
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Nice idea for testing Exclusive Mode input. Well done.
Thanks, but it only tests it within the JRiver sphere. The real issue is how robust it is with non JRiver apps. It looks like it BSODs with both foobar and Tidal inputs, which is concerning.
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Yes but what BSODs?
Is it MC that causes it, or is it Windows trying to handle a format change while in Exclusive Mode?
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Yes but what BSODs?
Is it MC that causes it, or is it Windows trying to handle a format change while in Exclusive Mode?
Not sure what is happening.
Not sure what you mean by a format change while in Exclusive Mode.
In Tidal, I select WMD in Exclusive Mode. As soon as I try to play anything from Tidal, the PC crashes. Nothing else is trying to use WMD. And, using MC 22 in the same way, it works fine. The crash is also being reported when trying to access WMD in Exclusive Mode from foobar.
Exclusive Mode is required for Tidal to play MQA files, and lots of people are doing that successfully through their USB DACs. I would guess Tidal is connecting to WMD in the same way they do to USB DACs. My guess is that it is something about the WMD driver that is causing the problem. To Tidal WDM it is just a driver. That is why I suspect WMD. The conventional wisdom is that programs do not usually cause BSODs, but drivers can. But, that is just a guess.
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What I mean is that any program that outputs audio in Exclusive Mode would need to set the bit depth and sample rate at the start of playback. So unless it happened to already be correct and no change was required, and assuming that Tidal would start in a default format, then the sequence of action may be;
Open file to play.
Connect to target. (WDM Driver)
Change format, and tell the target the format to receive. Some handshaking and confirmation of the change.
Play file.
So the crash could be when Tidal tries to change the format in the WDM Driver which may not work, and Tidal crashes. Or it could be that the WDM Driver tries to change, and crashes.
I Also assume that Tidal uses an output driver, which passes audio to the WDM Driver. So there is a driver at either end that could be crashing. Plus, even though this is in Exclusive Mode, I suspect the Windows is still managing the process, and its own drivers could crash during a format change. For example, if Tidal says change format, Windows passes that request to the WDM Driver which refuses to change, crashing a Windows component.
But I'm no expert on the internal workings of audio in Windows.
Basically, if you are getting a crash, try to confirm which component of the whole process is crashing. A crash log or the message on the BSOD screen should do that.
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I have 5 recorded crashes over the last 2 days. I have minidumps for them but no JRiver logs. Four of the crashes point to OS components and one points to WDM. I can provide the minidumps if anyone wants to look at them in more details.
RD James reported a BSOD error with foobar and gave the error as a BAD_POOL_HEADER BSOD. I got 2 of those, although in different places.
Here is some base information from the minidumps.
BAD_POOL_HEADER ntoskrnl.exe NT Kernel & System
SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED ntoskrnl.exe NT Kernel & System
BAD_POOL_HEADER fltmgr.sys Microsoft Filesystem Filter Manager
BUGCODE_USB_DRIVER USBPORT.SYS USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver
DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL JRiverWDMDriver.sys JRiver WDM Driver
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Here is what I got from Tidal on the BSOD issue:
"We are investigating your bug submission, where the app crashes when playing master songs.
We’ve developed a new version of the application that we believe should fix this bug.
It’d be great if you could see if it solves your problem and tell us the results."
As I said, with the latest version of Tidal the BSOD issues with WDM and Masters disappeared (thx God) but I got stuck with 24/48k rather then the 96k.
I will reach out to Tidal to see if they need a license.
-- WW
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That sounds like Tidal's fix was to disable exclusive mode when playing to the JRiver WDM driver.
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Ok, I checked I am in Exclusive mode, since no other audio application works when I am using Tidal (audio device is blocked by tidal app exclusive mode).
Does none of the JRiver devs have Tidal accounts? It should be easy to figure out why the WDM driver returns 48kHz?
Example: Masters file of "Side by Side" duke Ellington album. When I check the JRIver DSP Studio: it lists as source: 48kHz at 16 bit 2ch. rather then what Tidal outputs (96kHz 16bit 2ch).
I assume the WDM driver is a Filter driver and passes the Tidal source to JRiver. Would be great if a dev could chime in.
Thx
-- WW
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Do a search on "Tidal bsod" on this forum. It is linked to your case since you would need to use exclusive access to automatically have the native sample rate in the entire audio chain.
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Sorry Trumpetguy you lost me there.
I am running Tidal in Exclusive Mode. There is no BSOD issue here. The only thing that can prevent the native sample rate in the entire audio chain is the WDM driver.
As much as I enjoy having a Forum as support system (and I really enjoy the passion and willingness of folks to help), I also find it highly unprofessional. Is there a way to contact a developer/support person who actually works on JRiver to get some insights on how the WDM driver works and if there is anything else that can interfere with the audio path?
Thx
--WW
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Try turning off TPDF dithering in MC. Let us know if that works. I can get MC to play MQA files to an MQA DAC perfectly, only when there is no dithering or JRiver's bit-perfect dithering.
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Try turning off TPDF dithering in MC. Let us know if that works. I can get MC to play MQA files to an MQA DAC perfectly, only when there is no dithering or JRiver's bit-perfect dithering.
Tidal has an MQA software decoder, which decodes to 96kHz. This is not about bitstreaming.
The problem is that the JRiver WDM driver will BSOD if exclusive mode is used so that Tidal can switch the output to 96kHz for those tracks. It may be that it only BSODs if there's a sample rate change rather than exclusive mode always crashing.
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Sorry Trumpetguy you lost me there.
I am running Tidal in Exclusive Mode. There is no BSOD issue here. The only thing that can prevent the native sample rate in the entire audio chain is the WDM driver.
As much as I enjoy having a Forum as support system (and I really enjoy the passion and willingness of folks to help), I also find it highly unprofessional. Is there a way to contact a developer/support person who actually works on JRiver to get some insights on how the WDM driver works and if there is anything else that can interfere with the audio path?
Thx
--WW
Ok, I admit I hadn't read the entire thread too well before posting. But in the OP, you described the issue in a way that made me think of the wdm bsod Exclusive mode issue discussed in several other threads (even if you have no bsod, your issue seems related, since you seemingly have a fix going that doesn't use Exclusive).
The forum is the helpdesk at JRiver. Usually it is extremely efficient due to highly skilled users and also because you (in most cases) get quite quick response from the JRiver developers. For this WDM issue, though, it has been a quite steep hill climb the past year or so, with little or no attention from the devs. With this thread, my hopes are getting up.
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As much as I enjoy having a Forum as support system (and I really enjoy the passion and willingness of folks to help), I also find it highly unprofessional. Is there a way to contact a developer/support person who actually works on JRiver to get some insights on how the WDM driver works and if there is anything else that can interfere with the audio path?
Unprofessional?
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IMO, if you guys want to help the devs find the source of the BSODs upload and post the minidumps created when Windows crashes. I've yet to see anyone do this yet.
Just saying it BSODs isn't enough, the minidumps would be required to even see what's happening when the BSOD occurs. Without minidumps, the chances of it getting fixed are slim, in my opinion.
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Please don't send logs unless we ask for them. They take significant time to read.
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They take significant time to read.
Well, that and depending on the type of minidump Windows is setup to create, it can potentially be a pretty large file size. :P
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We don't currently need dumps of the WDM driver crash. Its easy enough to reproduce.
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Tidal has an MQA software decoder, which decodes to 96kHz. This is not about bitstreaming.
The problem is that the JRiver WDM driver will BSOD if exclusive mode is used so that Tidal can switch the output to 96kHz for those tracks. It may be that it only BSODs if there's a sample rate change rather than exclusive mode always crashing.
But I thought we’ve established that the new version of Tidal that OP has exclusive mode, and is not BSODing.
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I am running Tidal in Exclusive Mode. There is no BSOD issue here. The only thing that can prevent the native sample rate in the entire audio chain is the WDM driver.
Is your Windows mixer also set to 48/16?
Maybe you have exclusive mode, but Tidal has just disabled switching to prevent the BSOD, ie they downsample their own unfolded MQA stream?
I could help test and reproduce your situation if I had the new non-BSODing Tidal build. Has it made general release yet?
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AwesomeDonkey - See my previous post. I offered to post minidumps, but nobody seemed interested in them.
Hendrik just confirmed that they can reproduce the crashes. That is probably why nobody asked for my minidumps.
I have 5 recorded crashes over the last 2 days. I have minidumps for them but no JRiver logs. Four of the crashes point to OS components and one points to WDM. I can provide the minidumps if anyone wants to look at them in more details.
RD James reported a BSOD error with foobar and gave the error as a BAD_POOL_HEADER BSOD. I got 2 of those, although in different places.
Here is some base information from the minidumps.
BAD_POOL_HEADER ntoskrnl.exe NT Kernel & System
SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED ntoskrnl.exe NT Kernel & System
BAD_POOL_HEADER fltmgr.sys Microsoft Filesystem Filter Manager
BUGCODE_USB_DRIVER USBPORT.SYS USB 1.1 & 2.0 Port Driver
DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL JRiverWDMDriver.sys JRiver WDM Driver
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But I thought we’ve established that the new version of Tidal that OP has exclusive mode, and is not BSODing.
The speculation is that the special version the OP has may just turn off exclusive mode for WDM.
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The speculation is that the special version the OP has may just turn off exclusive mode for WDM.
Yes, but OP also wrote: Ok, I checked I am in Exclusive mode, since no other audio application works when I am using Tidal (audio device is blocked by tidal app exclusive mode).
so that sounds like proper Exclusive mode behaviour to me.
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winterwolf: Did you notice that there are actually two Side by Side album versions in the Masters collections? One unfolds to 96 KHz on an MQA DAC, and the other goes to 192 KHz.
Can you confirm that you are testing with just the same version for both Tidal direct to DAC in non-passthrough, and Tidal to WDM?
Just trying to eliminate silly causes.
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winterwolf - You are the only one who has this special version of Tidal so it is hard for others to help. Can you run one test which might help people better understand your situation. The idea is to understand whether Tidal is actually taking exclusive control of the WDM driver.
Please go into Control Panel and select Sound - click on WDM - select Properties and Advanced. What Default Format do you see? It will probably be 48 KHz. Now, change it to something else (say 96 KHz or 44.1 KHz). Then play a MQA file through Tidal with exclusive mode set and see what input sample rate Audio Path reports. If the sample rate is the same as what is set in Properties, then Tidal is, in fact, not getting exclusive access to WDM. You can also try a non-MQA file and see what sample rate WDM reports.
That little experiment will greatly help us understand the problem.
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My two issues are at work here. One is exactly what the OP's version of Tidal does. The other is that there are multiple reports (Tidal, foobar, Kodi) of BSODs trying to use exclusive move with WDM. There is more to this than just Tidal. There is some issue with WDM in exclusive mode that needs to be understood and fixed. Hendrik can reproduce it. Hopefully that means there is a general fix in the works.
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I thought it may be worthwhile just adding a couple of general points about Tidal Masters and MQA.
The OP says that Tidal support told him that the MQA files will unfold to 88.2 or 96 kS/s. These are the MAXIMUM data rates, not default rates, using the Tidal desktop player which incorporates a software MQA renderer. A hardware MQA equipped DAC will cater for higher rates.
MQA is (allegedly) able to stream an equivalent to the original master recording. Master in this case meaning that which the owner of the recording defines (authorises) as being a Master.
Tidal's initial catalogue using MQA all came from Warners and their mode of digital masters are 24/96 but this does not mean that all of them are. As time goes by and other record companies add their repertoires to the Tidal MQA database it will soon be clear that many Masters are actually 24/44.1 as that is, perhaps, surprisingly, a common mastering data rate even now.
So if the OP is getting tracks at 24/48 then that may be the correct rate. I see lots of them with other sources of hi-rez media. It should not be assumed that all will be higher. Therefore there may, or may not, be a problem with JR MC. Perhaps the OP needs to try out a wider selection of tracks to establish if it is a real fault.
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Please try 23.0.81.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113122.msg782287.html#msg782287
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Oh snap, 23.0.81 fixes the WDM BSOD issue on JRiver's side.
5. Fixed: The JRiver WDM driver could crash and cause a BSOD when used in WASAPI mode.
Now the ball's in Tidal's court... hopefully they release their new build fixing it on their side. If you're having the issue with Tidal alone, you should pester Tidal about it. ;)
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Unfortunately I do not have access to a computer for a while. Hopefully someone can try the regular release Tidal with .81. It may be that the regular release was OK all along.
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Unfortunately I do not have access to a computer for a while. Hopefully someone can try the regular release Tidal with .81. It may be that the regular release was OK all along.
I am about to try it
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Unfortunately I do not have access to a computer for a while. Hopefully someone can try the regular release Tidal with .81. It may be that the regular release was OK all along.
The regular release was fine all along, I think.
With build 81:
Using WDM in exclusive mode in Tidal, with passthrough disabled; MC plays the Masters track and the MQA light lights up on my DAC. So, Tidal is decoding to 48 Khz/24 bit, and then MC is passing this on to the DAC, which is unfolding to 96 Khz+.
With passthrough enabled: MC is still receiving a 48 Khz/24 bit signal, but the DAC is still showing the final file at 96 KHz or 192 KHz depending on the track.
So at least the BSOD is fixed, and MC the WDM is able to pass on either a partly decoded MQA file, or an unmolested MQA file to my DAC to yield identical results in the DAC.
I'm happy.
The only issue is that there is about a 1 second distortion at the beginning of the first track played via WDM while the DAC gets a lock and understands it's an MQA file (I speculate).
EDIT (mistaken originally, as Tidal settings change didn't stick)
Also: the OP expects to see MC say that the input is 96KHz/24, and mine now does.
Further, if I play the same Masters tracks but using the Hifi (lossless) mode in Tidal, they play at the expected 44.1/16.
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With passthrough disabled playing an MQA track does Audio Path show a 96 KHz input? The Tidal app
should decode to 88 or 96 KHz.
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It decodes to MQA to 96 KHz. The DAC does the rest and unfolds to the full final resolution.
With passthrough I see an input of 48 in MC, without passthrough it's 96 KHz.
I have only checked a few tracks - some that unfold to 96 and some that are 192 in the DAC.
There was some confusion before, where disabling Passthrough in Tidal was not sticking. It wasn't enough to start a new track; I had to quit and relaunch Tidal to get the setting to stick.
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The sound, via WDM isn't flawless with Passthrough disabled. It's far superior with passthrough enabled on my Mytek Brooklyn DAC. There seem to be some timing issues and pops and crackles with WDM. I have the device buffer set to 250 ms. If you don't have an MQA decoding DAC or you need to do any DSP, I guess disabling passthrough and using WDM is ok. So far, the best results are with passing through directly from Tidal to an MQA DAC.
NOTE: Some Masters albums, such as Meaning of Life by Kelly Clarkson, unfold to 44.1/24 in the MQA DAC directly from Tidal, suggesting that the MQA in some tracks merely increases the bit depth to 24. But that is a weird album, as at least one track (Heat) isn't a Master's version.
As for the MQA files I have, MC plays them just fine passing through flawlessly to the DAC as long as your output settings are done correctly.
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The sound, via WDM isn't flawless with Passthrough disabled. It's far superior with passthrough enabled on my Mytek Brooklyn DAC. There seem to be some timing issues and pops and crackles with WDM. I have the device buffer set to 250 ms.
Remember that Options > Audio > Advanced > Live Playback Latency controls the input buffer, while your device settings control the output buffer size.
What works best seems to vary a lot depending on the system - both the OS: Windows 10 should be better at handling smaller buffer sizes, and the hardware it's running on: the PC and the DAC.
Try turning off TPDF dithering in MC. Let us know if that works. I can get MC to play MQA files to an MQA DAC perfectly, only when there is no dithering or JRiver's bit-perfect dithering.
Makes a good case for dither being set per-zone, since you always want to use TPDF dither for anything that MC is applying DSP to.
I'd still like to see an option for ASIO devices to maximize volume on playback as well, just like WASAPI devices have.
I have to manually set the system volume to 100% to bitstream via ASIO or else it breaks, since my DAC's ASIO driver does not ignore system volume.
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Thanks for the reminder! I have played around with the latency a little, but proper testing will come after the sun has risen.
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It works, thanks a lot to Hendrik! I have tested with MQA passthrough disabled on two computers. One with a USB DAC (Hegel Super) and one with a Realtec internal DAC just to check. Both reported 24/96 as input to JRiver wdm on the tracks played. Tested with Tidal, standard, latest release of Windows PC app.
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I'm sure that you tested it as well, but I just wanted to confirm that it's also fixed the BSOD that I was getting with foobar2000.
Would it be possible to add 32-bit input support to the WDM driver? (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112584) In theory, that should remove a conversion when using it in non-exclusive mode.
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I tried to add 32-bit floating point support, but the only way I could get that to work was with exclusive mode. The shared device never offered an option to configure it to floating point, which defeats the purpose in this case.
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I tried to add 32-bit floating point support, but the only way I could get that to work was with exclusive mode. The shared device never offered an option to configure it to floating point, which defeats the purpose in this case.
I wonder if that means devices which list 32-bit support are only using integer mode? (and even so, perhaps that would still be better than 24-bit?)
I tried to test it, but both 32-bit integer and 32-bit floating point worked with WASAPI non-exclusive mode to those devices.
I'm not sure if there's anything which will tell me what their "32-bit" option is.
I also noticed that since the Fall Creators Update, the JRiver WDM driver has the option to change the speaker setup via the context menu of the system volume control.
All my other system devices only give me the option to change spatial sound options there, not the speaker setup.
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@JimH nonprofessional in the sense that when I purchased software in the past and I had issues, I don't have to engage with a larger user base but with focused Tier 1 support who can quickly escalate issues if needed. This is just my personal opinion and not intended to sound offensive. I just have a hard time with this thread to get to the root cause of the issue since there is so much advice in multiple directions (all well intended but I think not everyone reads what the original issue was about).
@fitbit Default Format is set to whatever JRiver decides the source format is since I run my driver in ASIO mode. for 44.1k stream it is just that. For higher rez Master files it is capped at 48kHz.
@fitbit: The non master version plays at 44.1kHz (the one with Green and black cover) the other (master) at 48kHz (all green) with my JRiver version.
@dtc: I confirmed with Tidal that I have now the latest shipped version of their product. No BSOD and still capped at 48kHz with JRiver and WDM driver
@ dtc: I tried your steps you suggest: First I get a Windwos warning: the device is used by another application. If you continue that application may stop working. do you want to continue? when I say yes (and hit apply) the default format changed to 96 but JRiver input still sees 48kHz and my Headphone amp continued to play with 48kHz independend of the default format.
Non MQA files switch properly to 44.1 kHz
@Jim: Running 23.0.81 in 64 bit mode
@fitbit: Same setup. Set to Exclusive mode, Force Volume, no passthrough. Same results as you. JRiver should see 24/96KHz with only 2x unfolded but only sees 48kHz as input coming form the WDM driver.
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I am traveling so do not have access to my normal setup. However, I just tried Tidal and WDM on my laptop and it worked with Masters. Input sample rate was 96 KHz. This is with WIndows 8.1 and Tidal version 2.1.11.333 (W: 2.4.5--3) (NP: 2.4.2) and 64 bit MC .81. I am using Joni Mitchel Both Sides Now as my Masters album on Tidal.
Since you never had a BSOD and you always get 48 KHz with Masters, it seems like the issue is probably outside of the WDM driver, although I not sure what it might be.
On my laptop, I am using the internal sound card and speakers in Direct Sound mode. I still get 96 KHz input into MC which I resample to 48 Khz for the internal sound card. Maybe try that. It would eliminate any issue with your output device. Grasping at straws here..
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Winterwolf: See my latest posts. Everything works as it should with the new version of MC. When not doing passthrough, Masters files played in Tidal are showing up as expected - 96 KHz/24
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Ok, wanted to report back.
I flattened my machine and put just the minimum audio drivers on: JRiver WDM and my headphone amp/dac. I thought after all the comments that something was wrong with Windows itself, and indeed it was Windows (or another app interfering with the audio device). Now JRiver plays Tidal with the expected 96kHz for MQA (unless the stream itself is lower rez). All good now! Thanks to everyone chiming in and the comments that I am only getting the Windows shared device stream. Right on the money.
Sadly, I have to report a weird side effect. The 96kHz stream is really choppy (I hear scratching and cracking noises constantly during play). Should I start a new thread or is there any quick advice you guys can give to adjust JRiver to make it go away?
Thx everyone!
-- WW
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You might need to increase the buffer.
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Ok, wanted to report back.
I flattened my machine and put just the minimum audio drivers on: JRiver WDM and my headphone amp/dac. I thought after all the comments that something was wrong with Windows itself, and indeed it was Windows (or another app interfering with the audio device). Now JRiver plays Tidal with the expected 96kHz for MQA (unless the stream itself is lower rez). All good now! Thanks to everyone chiming in and the comments that I am only getting the Windows shared device stream. Right on the money.
Sadly, I have to report a weird side effect. The 96kHz stream is really choppy (I hear scratching and cracking noises constantly during play). Should I start a new thread or is there any quick advice you guys can give to adjust JRiver to make it go away?
Thx everyone!
-- WW
Thanks for your persistence. Glad you got MQA to work.
I see the same problem you do - WDM sees the 96 KHz input, but the output is uneven and scratchy. I have played with the buffers to no avail. In my case, I am traveling so the only output device I have is my laptop's build in speakers. I wanted to wait until I am home next week to do more testing, but given your report I wanted to confirm that I am getting the same result. I think there was another poster who posted the same thing. I will do more testing next week, but wanted to confirm that I am seeing the same thing. I am running Windows 8.1 and, as I said, using the internal graphics, which are awful. But, I do get the scratchy, choppy behavior.
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I see the same problem you do - WDM sees the 96 KHz input, but the output is uneven and scratchy. I have played with the buffers to no avail.
Yep exactly the same for me. Fiddling with buffers changes it a bit, but I can't remove it.
I'm not terribly bothered - a BSOD is a show-stopper for me, and makes me look for different software (and I know how much time it would take to configure Reaper to host my convolver system, because it took ages a few years back and I've forgotten everythinng!), but this is just an annoyance. I don't go looking for MQA masters, but at least they don't crash my PC now.
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Where do you increase buffer?
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Where do you increase buffer?
Options > Audio > Advanced > Live Playback Latency
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Buffer size has no effect on the cracking and hissing. It happens with all Master files above 44.1 kHz. Really really sad, since I thought I had it figured out :(
-- WW
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Buffer size has no effect on the cracking and hissing. It happens with all Master files above 44.1 kHz. Really really sad, since I thought I had it figured out :(
Can you play local files that are imported to the library without these issues?
If you don't have any, there are 24/96 samples available for download here: http://www.2l.no/hires/
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With my laptop, I definitely get scratchy sound when playing Tidal Masters through WDM. However, when playing 96 KHz audio from MC22 through MC 23 WDM the sound is fine. Seems like the problem may be specific to Tidal, although it would be good to check with other sources. I will test with good DACs once I am home this weekend.
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@RD Local files play fine, up to 192kHz I used ProStudioMaster samples in flac format to test it.
Again it is just with Masters, Tidal and JRiver WDM driver.
JRiver now detects the right Tidal output format from 44.1kHz up to expected 96kHz based on the source. It is just impossible to listen to...
Non Master Tidal songs play fine.
thx!
-- WW
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@RD Local files play fine, up to 192kHz I used ProStudioMaster samples in flac format to test it.
Again it is just with Masters, Tidal and JRiver WDM driver.
JRiver now detects the right Tidal output format from 44.1kHz up to expected 96kHz based on the source. It is just impossible to listen to...
Non Master Tidal songs play fine.
It's exactly the same for me.
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I previously reported hearing crackle and noise when playing Tidal Masters through WDM on my laptop (Windows 8.1). Now I have tried in on a desktop system at home (Windows 7) and hear the same thing. There definitely seems to be a problem with Tidal Masters and WDM. It is easy to point a finger at Tidal, but given that Tidal works with a large number of DACs but not with WDM, it seems like it may well be a issue with WDM.