INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 27 for Windows => Topic started by: lightsout on August 01, 2020, 02:06:31 pm
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I know a similar thread was made, this is not a complaint.
I want to buy 27 but money is tight, can we get any insight on what may be to come? Something to be
looking forward to. I am currently on 25, so mostly up to date.
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so a good bang for your buck is if you purchase 27 now it also works on 26.98 and above
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I understand that it works on 26 but maybe you missed my question?
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I know a similar thread was made, this is not a complaint.
you answered it yourself
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I suppose you're right.
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JRiver usually doesn't keep a list of features they want to add in a major version, as such lists only lead to high hopes and expectations. There's always that chance if they publish a "to-do" list for MC27 and they're not able to add a certain feature or features announced during that release cycle, some users might get upset about that. Instead, they usually compile the list of new features as they're being added. Since they're early in the MC27 development cycle, they've likely decided not to publish the "What's new in MC27" list of features yet until it's ready to be published (and/or closer to the first builds of MC27).
Yes, taking advantage of the early bird upgrade is a leap of faith, but if/when JRiver adds a feature in the MC27 release cycle and you didn't take advantage of the early bird upgrade offer, you might come to regret it (or you may not care and would happily upgrade if you want). Another way to look at it is upgrading to help fund development and support JRiver regardless of what new features are added. Personally, this is why I upgrade yearly, to help support development and JRiver in general.
Also, keep in mind guys...
1) Upgrades are optional. If you're happy with whatever version of Media Center you're using and you don't want to upgrade, then don't. There are a few exceptions to this though, mainly on Mac and Linux where older MC versions may have issues on newer Mac and Linux distro releases. Windows in comparison is very forgiving in regards to backwards compatibility with older software.
2) People say there's not many audio-centric features these days, where the past few major versions focus more on video and images. This is true, but remember JRiver Media Center already can output bit-perfect audio, and it's pretty hard, if not impossible, to improve upon that. Existing audio features like improved DSD-to-PCM low-pass filtering options, DFF-to-DSF (and DSF-to-DFF) repacking (conversions) without resampling so no PCM step in the middle, etc. could be improved in newer MC versions. Also support for things like VST3 and other DSP additions/tweaks could be added as well. But remember, it's called JRiver Media Center so it focuses on audio, video, images, television, etc. But to say there hasn't been audio-related improvements over the last few years really should read the MC changelogs more closely. Things like the WDM driver (and improvements to the WDM driver), memory playback (including additional changes/improvements over the last few MC versions), the SoX resampler, TPDF dithering, HDCD decoding, waveform seekbar, etc. have all been added. Afterall it is called JRiver Media Center, so it focusing on video and images makes sense, as audio support is pretty mature at this point.
So that's all fine and dandy. However, for those potential users with certain expectations and are holding out for specific features (mainly these listed below), keep in mind...
1) Integrations with streaming services like Tidal and Qobuz are likely never going to be added. This is something that has been discussed many times before (do a forum search, Jim explains why JRiver chooses not to pursue this) however there is a workaround, using MC's WDM driver alongside the Tidal/Qobuz apps will work, but it requires using two apps (and I don't think multichannel works). Jim has said they're willing to support Amazon Music if Amazon themselves funds the development, so you guys who want this should go bug Amazon about them giving JRiver API access (and the funding for development) to add Amazon Music integration support to Media Center.
2) MQA is likely never going to be officially supported. You can already unofficially passthrough MQA through Media Center if a) you're not using any DSP whatsoever and b) volume is set at 100%. Personally, I find MQA to be an audiophile scam, hardware and software DRM and like Jim has said in the past a solution looking for a problem.
3) People saying they want JRiver to rewrite the entire graphical user interface (GUI). This isn't feasible for multiple reasons, mainly because it'd cost a lot in development time and money - it could take a year or two to completely redo the GUI. Are you guys really willing to give up all other features so they can focus all development on a new graphical user interface? Not only that, if they do change it some users may not like it and would complain about it and want the older interface back. This is a kind of battle where there's no way to win regardless what they do, so I wouldn't expect this one any time soon. That said, JRiver is willing to consider ideas/improvements/adjustments in the existing user interface as long as it's not complicated. You just have to post them in the appropriate topic(s) and explain as good as you can the changes you'd like to see.
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it could take a year or two to completely redo the GUI. Are you guys really willing to give up all other features so they can focus all development on a new graphical user interface?
Hmmm... yes?
We don't know about "all other features" incoming anyway, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Went ahead and jumped on it. Was just looking for something to wet the appetite. 😎
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I don't understand the developers' policy!
It's 2020, streaming services are very popular all over the world.
People use it with pleasure, pay their money, which is a kind of support for musicians, albeit a very scanty one. Why not support streaming services in our favorite player - such as Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz.
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But almost every day, I receive a notification that I would update the program to a new version, the question is - why do I need this?
You don't have to upgrade. You can use the version you have forever.
Upgrades are enormously important to JRiver's future.
This might help you understand why we have avoided supporting Tidal or Qobuz::
Why Streaming Struggles (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101545.0.html)
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You don't have to upgrade. You can use the version you have forever.
Upgrades are enormously important to JRiver's future.
This might help you understand why we have avoided supporting Tidal or Qobuz::
Why Streaming Struggles (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101545.0.html)
Thank you for the link. For me it was a revelation!
I apologize for my incorrect message. I'm wrong
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No need to apologize, but thank you.
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Given the excellent support for audio and video (I don't care about streaming from services - don't pay for any of them, have nearly 200TB of local redundant storage in a nice server rack), my wishlist is for JRiver to focus on eco-systems: Android *and* iOS.
This is everything from tablet, phone, watch, auto, and in some cases STBs, e.g. Shield (in progress) and Apple TV. The competition does this, and they do it well. It's why I still pay the competition money.
Solve that, and I believe you significantly increase your user base.
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iOS isn't likely doable, Apple's ecosystem has too many limitations for a full version of MC on iOS.
Hendrik already said this too: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,126341.msg875473.html#msg875473
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I agree whole heartedly with TheShoe. Network capability is what JRiver needs. I have stopped using JRiver for video because it is so hard to get to work on my TV. I have a Nvidia Shield which is a great simple device but JRiver just doesn't deliver on it. I have said it before; we don't need more features, we need better cross platform network capaibility. JRiver might have the best DSD processing on the market but if I can't play it on the device I want to, it's useless.
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What version are you using and what doesn't work?
About 1/4 of our work this cycle was on networking capabilities.
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I have a tv connected to a nvidia shield. Using JRiver on that configuration for watching video is not usable.
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Ray,
I use JRiver on my NVidia Shields as well as my Sony TVs. I use it to control my library and I use Nova Video on the shield as the App to play the video. Works very well as a DLNA setup. I highly recommend you check it out.
I am looking forward to the day the MC actually works for video on an Android Box.
Dave
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This might help you understand why we have avoided supporting Tidal or Qobuz::
Why Streaming Struggles (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101545.0.html)
It does not explain why JRiver does not support Apple and spotify streaming services. Both are well established with incredible financial backing (especially Apple). There are millions of subscribers to both streaming services and are well supported. To refuse to support a streaming service such as spotify because other streaming services survival is questionable is nothing more than a straw man to justify not investing in providing an important streaming service to JRiver users, and it is costing JRiver new adopters since streaming is a critical part of entertainment consumption.
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Good luck at integrating any Apple service like Apple Music. They'd probably sick the lawyers on you quickly for doing it.
What I mean is Apple is known to push their own services mainly for their own devices. There's no way they'd let a US-based company like JRiver integrate Apple Music into the application as they want you to use their Apple applications like Music/iTunes. Even if JRiver implemented support for Apple Music without even asking, they'd be sued into oblivion quickly.
Does Spotify have an open API for all developers to use to integrate Spotify into their apps? I'd actually be very surprised if they did.
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It does not explain why JRiver does not support Apple and spotify streaming services. Both are well established with incredible financial backing (especially Apple). There are millions of subscribers to both streaming services and are well supported. To refuse to support a streaming service such as spotify because other streaming services survival is questionable is nothing more than a straw man to justify not investing in providing an important streaming service to JRiver users, and it is costing JRiver new adopters since streaming is a critical part of entertainment consumption.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,97847.0.html
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It does not explain why JRiver does not support Apple and spotify streaming services. Both are well established with incredible financial backing (especially Apple). There are millions of subscribers to both streaming services and are well supported. To refuse to support a streaming service such as spotify because other streaming services survival is questionable is nothing more than a straw man to justify not investing in providing an important streaming service to JRiver users, and it is costing JRiver new adopters since streaming is a critical part of entertainment consumption.
Apple would not allow it.
Spotify loses buckets of money.
Q3 2020 Guidance:
● Total MAUs: 312-317 million
● Total Premium Subscribers: 140-144 million
● Total Revenue: €1.85-€2.05 billion
○ Assumes approximately 260 bps headwind to growth Y/Y due to movements in
foreign exchange rates
● Gross Margin: 23.1-25.1%
● Operating Profit/Loss: €(70)-€(150) million
Q4 2020 Guidance:
● Total MAUs: 328-348 million
● Total Premium Subscribers: 146-153 million
● Total Revenue: €2.05-€2.25 billion
○ Assumes approximately 360 bps headwind to growth Y/Y due to movements in
foreign exchange rates
● Gross Margin: 23.7-25.7%
● Operating Profit/Loss: €(45)-€(145) million
https://investors.spotify.com/financials/default.aspx
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Apple would not allow it.
Spotify loses buckets of money.
I'm guessing Apple may be a tough hill to climb, but unless JRiver has attempted to climb it, then we are dealing with excuses.
Spotifiy loses money, but it is the pre-eminent music streaming service in NA and Europe. At these stage of the competition, focus is not on profit, but market share...care to post Spotify's market share in the music streaming market place? Did Netflix make a profit in its early yrs? No, its goal was market share (like any business especially IT related business) and now its profits allow it to make shows, movies and dictate its terms to content providers.
The question is whether Spotify will be here 5 yrs from now and whether it is a critical form of music media consumption in the market place. The latter is clearly yes, and there is absolutely no indication the corporation lacks the means to be here for another 5 yrs. Accordingly, it is a feature JRiver users could value for many yrs and help encourage to JRiver expand from the niche market it presently occupies. Otherwise, its value remains limited and out of step with the behaviour of most media consumers.
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How is trying to avoid being sued an excuse? If they added Apple Music support, they'd be sued by Apple over it. While a company like Epic Games likely has more than enough money to battle Apple (and Google) in court, a small company like JRiver doesn't. Same would apply to Spotify and any other audio/video streaming service.
What I'm basically saying is, there are some hills that shouldn't be climbed.
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MC27 Goals (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,126606.0.html)
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Spotify loses buckets of money.
https://investors.spotify.com/financials/default.aspx
And doesn't pay its artists properly.
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Not sure it was documented ... but somewhere in MC26, SSA/ASS subtitles where propetly implemented ... which is great if you are into anime
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Went ahead and jumped on it. Was just looking for something to wet the appetite. 😎
It's actually "whet" (as in sharpen) "the appetite", but your point is still made.