INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 27 for Mac => Topic started by: hulkss on November 12, 2020, 12:02:56 am
-
Thinking about a new M1 Mac Mini. Can I expect it to work well as compared to a Windows 10 HTPC with Media Center?
-
Nope. I really doubt it.
On Windows there's things for video like madVR, which isn't available outside of Windows. Then there's the Apple Silicon Macs themselves which JRiver Media Center for Mac may not work that well for awhile, if at all from day one. There's a chance the app may not function at all on Apple Silicon Macs. Intel x86_64 apps can run on the new Apple Silicon Macs using Rosetta 2 (though nobody yet knows how slow x86_86 apps will run though), but there's always a chance an app like MC won't work as well or may not work at all. In addition, video playback functioning all depends on if Apple completely removes OpenGL support, which MC for Mac still uses for video, specifically all OpenGL in Big Sur for Apple Silicon Macs (which I suspect to be the case). If they do (and require Metal for this) it may be a good while before MC works with it for video, assuming it runs as-is in the first place. Finally I'd wait for third-party reviews, since Apple's hype never shows what's really happening. There's no way the M1 chip is as fast as an Intel CPU, and I suspect once reviews are out it's going to reflect that (which is something that could/will affect video performance). And it'll be several years before they even catch up to that kind of performance.
So no, I wouldn't recommend it.
-
As Awesome Donkey says, it could be a while, if ever, before we support them.
-
There's no way the M1 chip is as fast as an Intel CPU, and I suspect once reviews are out it's going to reflect that (which is something that could/will affect video performance). And it'll be several years before they even catch up to that kind of performance.
I would NOT be so confident on that particular portion there. Apple has built the best SOC team in the industry, by a wide margin, and Intel has been seriously struggling for years now. This particular chip is their "thin & light" version of the M-series chip, and it is wiping the floor (https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/11/m1-macbook-air-first-benchmark/) with everything but the highest-end AMD and Intel CPUs.
Next year when a M1X (or whatever they call it) comes out designed for desktop machines? I don't see how anything will keep up.
Reports are that Rosetta 2 is quite good, and with the overhead available in the M1, often runs x86 code faster-than native on a comparable Intel CPU. It is going to be an interesting few years in CPUs, for the first time in a long time.
-
The good news is it looks like OpenGL is still supported in Big Sur (even on Apple Silicon Macs) but it'll likely be removed from the next major macOS version. MC uses ANGLE (with OpenGL ES), which it looks like there's progress on getting it working on Apple's Metal on macOS. So there's hope there that in the future it'll just work without needing to directly port MC to Metal just by updating ANGLE.
So there's indeed a chance MC27 will work on a Apple Silicon Mac because of the Rosetta 2 compatibility layer. However if you manage to get MC27 running on an Apple Silicon Mac, if I had to guess it'll probably run very slowly because of this and features may not work. So keep that in mind and also keep in mind that running MC on an Apple Silicon Mac is very likely going to be considered unsupported by JRiver so you'd be on your own if any issues arise when doing so.
Again, I wouldn't recommend an Apple Silicon Mac, e.g. a Mac Mini, for a HTPC if you're wanting to run MC on it. Not only can you not install Windows via Boot Camp anymore the performance with the first generation Apple Silicon Macs is probably going to be terrible.
-
I would NOT be so confident on that particular portion there. Apple has built the best SOC team in the industry, by a wide margin, and Intel has been seriously struggling for years now. This particular chip is their "thin & light" version of the M-series chip, and it is wiping the floor (https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/11/m1-macbook-air-first-benchmark/) with everything but the highest-end AMD and Intel CPUs.
We'll see how long it'll take Apple to release a Mac Pro with a MX chip with on-par performance with the highest end Intel and AMD CPUs. I think it could be 5 years, who knows, maybe I'm wrong and it'll be much sooner.
Nonetheless, I have zero interest in these new Macs, and once Hackintoshes die with the end of support for the last released Intel Mac (in about 7 or so years) I'm hopping off the Apple train for good.
-
We'll see how long it'll take Apple to release a Mac Pro with a MX chip with on-par performance with the highest end Intel and AMD CPUs. I think it could be 5 years, who knows, maybe I'm wrong and it'll be much sooner.
They've already stated that they're transitioning the entire line to Apple Silicon over the next two years, so... Unlikely. Based on the fact that their thin & light CPU seems to be beating 8-core i9s, I wouldn't recommend placing bets that involve money there.
We'll see more in a few days when the first Mac Minis start showing up, but... :o
The main limit to the current chips seems to be that the RAM is on-package, which is why they're limited to 16GB (hence the "consumer" releases initially). But, if an iMac or even Mac/iMac Pro is coming next year, that limit isn't going to last long...
-
Thanks for the comments. It will be interesting to see what the future brings for Apple home theater.
In the meantime, I'll try a new AMD Ryzen build and keep JRiver on Windows 10.
-
I have the new M1 Mac mini ordered and can’t wait to experiment with it.
(It’s a gift so no need to dissuade me with benchmarks)
At the moment I have three source components UHD BDP, ATV4K and 2010 Mac mini running JRiver.
I was very hopeful JRiver would load and run on the new Mac mini. Now, I guess I’ll find out.
It runs iOS apps so JRemote will work even if for some reason JRiver does not.
It’s going to be used as an HTPC unless it’s very bad for that purpose but on the contrary I think it will do HTPC well. My ten year old Mac mini does perfect but I just assume this will be better.
-
It’s going to be used as an HTPC unless it’s very bad for that purpose but on the contrary I think it will do HTPC well. My ten year old Mac mini does perfect but I just assume this will be better.
I suspect Rosetta is going to work just fine. We'll see. Keep us informed!
I have a family member who just ordered one as well, and I'm sure we'll get some at work before too long (though I bet there will be a lot of heel dragging because change).
I, personally, really want a new Mini. But I want 32GB of RAM (and I was going to get the better CPU too)... I'm hoping that when they ship the iMac Pro/Mac Pro variants, they'll replace the "high-end" Intel Mini that remains with a new M1X based one. And then I can see if I can get a "discount" Intel box, or get one of those.
-
I suspect Rosetta is going to work just fine. We'll see.
Maybe there's hope.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/13/21563242/apple-m1-silicon-chip-arm-macbook-rosetta-confidence
-
I should have one this month unless shipping slips.
-
You guys see any problems here: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment (https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment)
-
Maybe there's hope.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/13/21563242/apple-m1-silicon-chip-arm-macbook-rosetta-confidence
This guy works for Apple:
fun fact: retaining and releasing an NSObject takes ~30 nanoseconds on current gen Intel, and ~6.5 nanoseconds on an M1
…and ~14 nanoseconds on an M1 emulating an Intel 😇
https://twitter.com/Catfish_Man/status/1326238785181376512?s=20
Though, there is a caution:
(The price we pay for this is that certain kinds of multithreading bugs can remain dormant on Intel but become symptomatic on M1. Use Thread Sanitizer to test your apps!)
-
Nonetheless, I have zero interest in these new Macs, and once Hackintoshes die with the end of support for the last released Intel Mac (in about 7 or so years) I'm hopping off the Apple train for good.
I'm confused as to why you run one in the first place. To be very nice about it, you seem to be very dissatisfied with Apple. You also do not use their hardware, so you don't get the benefits of the whole platform.
In this particular thread, you don't seem to have anything good to say about their products. That's totally fine. I just wonder why you use them at all since you seem so down on their whole stack. Turn off your hackintosh. It's stealing anyway. You're not authorized to run their code on your own hardware.
To end this on a positive note, I *DO* agree with you that a Mac based installation of MC (on any hardware) is a poor home theater PC choice. I have tried it and it's no fun.
Brian.
-
Quote To end this on a positive note, I *DO* agree with you that a Mac based installation of MC (on any hardware) is a poor home theater PC choice. I have tried it and it's no fun.
That’s positive?
Hmmm. This Brian thinks different.
My Mac mini is in house and I can’t use it till this weekend. It WILL be a HTPC replacing the 2010 version used for JRiver. My guess is it’s better than my already awesome setup.
I like Mac and I like JRiver on Mac.
-
This guy works for Apple:https://twitter.com/Catfish_Man/status/1326238785181376512?s=20
Though, there is a caution:
(The price we pay for this is that certain kinds of multithreading bugs can remain dormant on Intel but become symptomatic on M1. Use Thread Sanitizer to test your apps!)
The more recent XCode compilers have exposed issues in MC via thread sanitizer that we've fixed and I've spent a lot of time with thread sanitizer fixing potential issues.
-
My Mac mini is in house and I can’t use it till this weekend. It WILL be a HTPC replacing the 2010 version used for JRiver. My guess is it’s better than my already awesome setup.
I like Mac and I like JRiver on Mac.
I wish you success. The solution did not suit me, but it might be great for you. Good luck!
Brian.
-
I use my 2013 15” MacBook Pro for home theatre. Top of the line at the time but still flawless and silent with any well encoded files. Even runs Star Wars 4k77 with no problem , no drops just a little fan noise! As good as my 17” i7750 gaming laptop that is only 2yrs old.
-
The more recent XCode compilers have exposed issues in MC via thread sanitizer that we've fixed and I've spent a lot of time with thread sanitizer fixing potential issues.
I'd be willing to bet you're going to be in pretty good shape, then. We'll see soon!
-
As Awesome Donkey says, it could be a while, if ever, before we support them.
I just bought a 2020 Intel Desktop iMac but they are being phased out by Apple. I run Parallel on the Mac with Windows 10 on the same machine. I have two minor programs which don't run on a Mac and sometimes I wonder why I bother.
However, looks like those of us in the Mac camp have a cloudy future with MC judging by the comments here.
I have to now look at phasing out MC as well. Sad, all the manhours I've invested.
Maybe I'll just stream Amazon Hi Res, Tidal, or Qobus for music? My personal collection can go on my Sony HAP. Or Rune?
I think in the past the limitations of bandwidth kept hi res music off the streaming services, but my internet provider just upped our speed from 20 to 250 mps for free (fiber optics) and I now have headroom galore. So I'll give the free trials a look.
Might be an idea for a future JRiver to go streaming like Amazon, etc. and that way you don't have to worry about the different chips.
-
We have an m1 Mac on order. Let's be patient.
-
Even with a 2020 Intel Mac, you're looking at more-or-less 7 years of support from Apple, unless they decide to pull the plug early.
What I said above was a worse case scenario type of thing, and I could be (and likely will be) completely wrong with my predictions about MC not even working at all on M1 Apple Silicon-based Macs with Rosetta 2. Honestly looking at what others have said about Rosetta 2 it's been running most x86_64 apps just fine, so I'll revise my prediction by saying more than likely Media Center will run fine on the Apple Silicon-based Macs. In fact, Bob has said because Media Center already runs on ARM (with MC for Linux) it's possible Media Center can be compiled for ARM for macOS/Apple Silicon (with perhaps some additional changes needed + Xcode stuff).
However...
There's still several unknowns at the moment; 1) what the performance is running on M1 versus the lowest-end to mid-range to even higher-end Intel-based Macs? Will there be any performance issues when running Media Center on M1-based Macs? Or will what Apple says be true and will actually run a little faster? Will MC27's recent Mac improvements with the native screen rendering going to help greatly here? 2) How well video playback is going to work under M1-based Macs? Media Center uses ANGLE which relies on OpenGL ES, which OpenGL has been deprecated in macOS but not yet removed even on M1-based Macs running Big Sur. OpenGL ES 2.0 in ANGLE has a Metal renderer so it's possible that Media Center's ANGLE implementation could be updated (if it's not already updated, of course) to use Metal on macOS. If it is, what's the performance going to like here? What's the performance going to be like using just OpenGL? Would love to see a comparison between OpenGL and Metal using ANGLE, to see if there's any gains. 3) What changes, if any, are needed to get Xcode to compile a working version of Media Center for Mac running on ARM/Apple Silicon? This might be the most tricky part of all, since recent Xcode updates haven't been too kind of Media Center in the last year, causing all sort of issues.
Personally if I was interested in buying one of these new Apple Silicon-based Macs, I'd wait for the second generation (M2) so Apple has time to make improvements and hopefully increase the maximum amount of RAM beyond 16GB (and maybe add 10G networking back to the Mac Mini). There's some tech reviewers who feel like Apple is going to replace these M1-based Macs sooner (like 6 months from now) than later. They've done this before with the first Apple Watch (aka series 0). But we'll see what happens.
So, what Jim said is the best idea and let's be patient and see what happens.
-
I’ll test my M1 Mac Mini this Sunday the 22nd.
From what I read in the plex forum I believe it will work as well emulated as it was currently working natively.
In the plex forum (and apparently on social media) people have used the M1 to transcode 6 streams at one time and 2 additional 4K go 1080p streams.
I won’t know till Sunday and I can’t wait , ... but I expect good results.
-
I am very interested in how the M1 will go.
Initial reviews indicate these machines are super quick and great value for money.
Keen to see if MC will end up being universal ARM/Intel, its a great product.
-
Just in general, it's easier for a risc machine to emulate a cisc machine then visa-versa so I'd expect Rosetta2 to be more efficient than Rosetta was.
-
Hi,
I have the 8GB version of the M1 Mac Mini and had a few moments to test it yesterday.
I should have a lot more tinker time today but my initial discovery is it isn’t simply plug and play.
As soon as I booted it, I loaded JRiver 27 Mac current beta and it asked to to download Rosetta to translate the app, it opened fine and looked normal,
My first frustration came with the MIDI setup as only 48Khz options were available. There were 176Khz options grayed out and nothing about 96Khz to be found.I’m not sure if this is an issue with my equipment. Will have to look more into it.
If I can’t play my 24/96 audio then that’s huge for me as that’s the only thing I used my Previous Mac Mini to do. So far I’ve only found support for high res from optical which is not useful to me because it’s limited to stereo.
-
Hi,
I have the 8GB version of the M1 Mac Mini and had a few moments to test it yesterday.
I should have a lot more tinker time today but my initial discovery is it isn’t simply plug and play.
As soon as I booted it, I loaded JRiver 27 Mac current beta and it asked to to download Rosetta to translate the app, it opened fine and looked normal,
My first frustration came with the MIDI setup as only 48Khz options were available. There were 176Khz options grayed out and nothing about 96Khz to be found.I’m not sure if this is an issue with my equipment. Will have to look more into it.
If I can’t play my 24/96 audio then that’s huge for me as that’s the only thing I used my Previous Mac Mini to do. So far I’ve only found support for high res from optical which is not useful to me because it’s limited to stereo.
Can you share what your audio path is?
-
My first impression about MC on my new M1 Mini with 8GB and 250GB SSD:
Installs without problems and runs fine as i can see it in the short time i own the Mini.
But analyzing audio is very disappointing and as lame as before with only 3 tasks at a time.
Edit:
I made a mistake. I analyzed the files over WiFi.
After copying these files to the internal SSD, i analyzed again with 16 concurrent tasks in an amazing speed.
The machine is indeed as fast as reported in the tests.
And this is the smallest possible Mac Mini in Rosetta2 emulation mode.
-
The audio path is
M1 Mac mini -hdmi- Denton 730h - speakers
-
Every since Sunday Ive been experimenting with various players using this new Mac mini.
So, I started over and so far the latest update seems to be working swell ... even over wifi.
I will keep testing.
-
Just for fun....can you run a MC Help/benchmark with rosetta?
My intel iMac gets
JRMark (version 27.0.22 64 bit): 5195
-
Benchmark for M1-Mac Mini (8GB/250GB): 5506
-
Disk Speed on 256 GB SSD:
-
Just ordered M1 Mac Mini. Therefore I am very much interested whether JRiver works on this plattform ...
-
It does work, thanks to Rosetta 2.
-
Just ordered M1 Mac Mini. Therefore I am very much interested whether JRiver works on this plattform ...
It does.
-
Are you planing to recompile JRiver for M1 ? Emulation is fine, native is better ...
-
Probably.
-
Soon ?
-
Possibly. We just got a machine.
-
I have a new Mac Mini on the way.
I'm trying to find limitations of JRiver MC for Mac that will need solutions. Is there any way to play online content or measurement apps through JRiver DSP in similar fashion to using to the WDM driver in the Windows version?
Is it possible to upgrade my recent 26-27 Windows upgrade to a Master License? I know, I should have done it then but I was not tempted by the new Macs at the time.
-
My M1 would not output anything other than 48Khz to my system.
I suppose patience is in order but for now I put the Mac mini to use as my new personal computer and I"m about to put my 2010 Mac mini back in use as a music only server. I don't have another machine that outputs 96Hz 5.1.
(I guess my BDP would but I would have to turn on the projector to navigate Blu Ray menus that are all different then turn it off again to avoid the fan noise.)
I'm loving the Mac mini but until I can get Hi Res audio from it, it's just going to be my daily computer. I was very wrong about it's capabilities for now.
-Brian
-
Is that with the onboard audio? I'd be interested to know if the same limitation applies when using a USB DAC, for example.
-
I have the base model m1 Mac mini and I can confirm 192/24 works just fine over usb, however can't get DSD 64 to work but from what I found on a quick search that's an Apple limitation which needs DOP support on the DAC
-
No problems with bitrates with my basic M1-Mac mini using the USB-output connected to my Devialet 220 amp.
The M1-Mac is very fast (even with Rosetta2) and cool.
-
I figured the 48Hz problem I was having was linked to using the HDMI output.
Do USB DACs support 5.1? The only USB DAC I have is a Dragonfly which is stereo, but I don't know much about USB DACs.
I guess when a lot of people think High Res Audio they think Stereo and that's fine but I can get stereo 24/96 from most things including my phone and my AVR USB and the network and so on. The reason my thoughts of 24/96 are linked to 5.1 is ALL of my high res stuff is Pink Floyd content and mostly sourced from Blu Rays.
There's also Display port ... something else I know nothing about but it could solve my current problem.
Patience is in order.
-Brian
-
Apple hardly ever discounts their computers, yet Costco has the mini at 30% off.
-
There's also Display port ... something else I know nothing about but it could solve my current problem.
DisplayPort is only video.
https://www.displayport.org/faq/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20DisplayPort%20supports%20multi%2Dchannel,ability%20to%20support%20HDMI%20audio
-
Do USB DACs support 5.1?
For Multichannel DAC's see:
https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/MultiChannel.htm (https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/MultiChannel.htm)
Exasound User Report on:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38876-multichannel-dac-exasound-e38/ (https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38876-multichannel-dac-exasound-e38/)
-
DisplayPort is only video.
On the M1? The standard is capable of carrying audio.
-
On the M1? The standard is capable of carrying audio.
You're correct. Sorry. I've never seen anyone use it for audio.
https://www.displayport.org/faq/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20DisplayPort%20supports%20multi%2Dchannel,ability%20to%20support%20HDMI%20audio
-
Displayport:
The DAC needs a driver but I have not seen a DAC with this.
My LG PC monitor is connected via DisplayPort to NVIDIA Graphics Card with in build speaker (SQ is bad - I don't use it) and receives the audio signal through Displayport.
-
First crack (at the silicon Mac native benchmark)...
=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 1.908 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 2.658 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 0.621 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.919 seconds
Score: 3112
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0.405 seconds
Flood filling... 0.684 seconds
Direct copying... 0.196 seconds
Small renders... 0.499 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 0.504 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 0.079 seconds
Score: 9295
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0.048 seconds
Populate database... 0.739 seconds
Save database... 0.330 seconds
Reload database... 0.137 seconds
Search database... 0.598 seconds
Sort database... 0.461 seconds
Group database... 0.460 seconds
Score: 7750
JRMark (version 27.0.37 64 bit): 6719
-
Apple hardly ever discounts their computers, yet Costco has the mini at 30% off.
Only the 8GB RAM models tho. :(
-
You're correct. Sorry. I've never seen anyone use it for audio.
You corrected it, but yes, DisplayPort definitely carries audio. And we use that feature extensively in our conference rooms, I'll note.
Modern DisplayPort does use different signaling than HDMI, however. And that is one reason that cheap USB-C > HDMI adapters don't work well in many instances. If you watch what is actually happening with many of the cheap ones, they switch back and forth between HDMI audio and DisplayPort audio modes in a cyclical fashion. Most TVs just ignore this when it happens, but it confuses the living heck out of our matrix switchers and room control systems, and they end up stuttering or dropping audio entirely.
The nicer Apple USB-C > HDMI adapters and the Anker ones work correctly. But a bunch of the other ~$20 ones on Amazon do not (even name brands).
-
I have a new Mac Mini on the way.
I'm trying to find limitations of JRiver MC for Mac that will need solutions. Is there any way to play online content or measurement apps through JRiver DSP in similar fashion to using to the WDM driver in the Windows version?
Is it possible to upgrade my recent 26-27 Windows upgrade to a Master License? I know, I should have done it then but I was not tempted by the new Macs at the time.
Using my new Mini now. Just need a master license upgrade from the Windows 27 upgrade I just bought if that's possible without having to buy the full price master upgrade.
I also would like to know: Is there any way to play online content or measurement apps through JRiver DSP on a Mac in similar fashion to using to the WDM driver in the Windows version?
-
I also would like to know: Is there any way to play online content or measurement apps through JRiver DSP on a Mac in similar fashion to using to the WDM driver in the Windows version?
Nope, afraid not.
-
First crack (at the silicon Mac native benchmark)...
=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 1.908 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 2.658 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 0.621 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.919 seconds
Score: 3112
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0.405 seconds
Flood filling... 0.684 seconds
Direct copying... 0.196 seconds
Small renders... 0.499 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 0.504 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 0.079 seconds
Score: 9295
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0.048 seconds
Populate database... 0.739 seconds
Save database... 0.330 seconds
Reload database... 0.137 seconds
Search database... 0.598 seconds
Sort database... 0.461 seconds
Group database... 0.460 seconds
Score: 7750
JRMark (version 27.0.37 64 bit): 6719
A native version for the M1 is being worked?
-
A native version for the M1 is being worked?
Yes
-
First crack (at the silicon Mac native benchmark)...
=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 1.908 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 2.658 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 0.621 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.919 seconds
Score: 3112
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0.405 seconds
Flood filling... 0.684 seconds
Direct copying... 0.196 seconds
Small renders... 0.499 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 0.504 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 0.079 seconds
Score: 9295
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0.048 seconds
Populate database... 0.739 seconds
Save database... 0.330 seconds
Reload database... 0.137 seconds
Search database... 0.598 seconds
Sort database... 0.461 seconds
Group database... 0.460 seconds
Score: 7750
JRMark (version 27.0.37 64 bit): 6719
Holy smokes
-
Yes
Awesome! Thank you to all involved.
-
I have to give it to Apple, I was completely wrong with my prediction.
Not only is the performance of x86-64 Intel apps running in Rosetta 2 on M1-based Macs extremely decent, the native performance of the M1 is also incredibly impressive. I'm glad I was wrong too, and I hope Microsoft is paying attention, Apple just showed the tech world how to transition from Intel x86-64 to ARM the right way. The most exciting part to see from my point of view is the Rosetta 2 compatibility layer allowing x86-64 apps to run on Apple Silicon (ARM) which ironically is still pretty abysmal with Windows 10 on ARM - they only have 32-bit apps working with support for 64-bit apps literally just landing in the Insider Preview channel a day or so ago. They've got a lot of catching up to do, in my opinion.
I gotta hand it to JRiver too, looks like they supported arm64 (with MC for Linux) at the right time, allowing the transition to Apple Silicon to (hopefully) be smooth and relatively easy.
-
Is there any way to play online content or measurement (and other) apps through JRiver DSP on a Mac in similar fashion to using to the WDM driver in the Windows version?
Nope, afraid not.
Hmmm....any chance this is on the "to do" list? Lots of streaming services being watched now.
-
I'm not JRiver (nor do I work for them) but if I recall correctly, it's not an easy thing to do on macOS. With Linux it's probably possible with ALSA, but if it were to ever happen and I had to guess, it may not happen anytime soon.
-
I'm not JRiver (nor do I work for them) but if I recall correctly, it's not an easy thing to do on macOS. With Linux it's probably possible with ALSA, but if it were to ever happen and I had to guess, it may not happen anytime soon.
I believe I can build a Mac DSP solution that any app can play through. I did hit a hard road block....the control software and driver for my MOTU 16A is not yet released for Big Sur. In the mean time, I'll work to reconstruct my JRiver Windows DSP in the Mac Version. It looks like JRiver supports VSTs in the Mac version, not AU (Audio Unit) plugins.
-
Just installed JRiver on my Mac mini M1 (16GB RAM) with Rosetta 2.
JRiver is working fine, however I notice that the memory is not released.
Windows 10 Memory:
JRiver started : 80 MB
JRiver playing Audio PCM file : up to 300 MB
Music stop : back to 80 MB
Exit JRiver : Process stop
Mac mini M1Memory:
JRiver started : 380 MB
JRiver playing Audio PCM file : 750 MB
Music stop : still more than 600 MB
Exit JRiver : still more than 600 MB
I have to kill the process manually.
This is my first Apple product, it would be interesting to compare with a Mac with Intel processor.
-
Memory usage may be high in the beginning. MC is building thumbnails, analyzing audio, etc. It should drop after a while.
-
Also you could try the build I just posted which will run natively.
-
Just tried the new BETA load.
Mac mini M1 Memory:
JRiver started : 350 MB
JRiver playing Audio PCM file : 480 MB
Music stop : back to 350 MB
Exit JRiver (CMD Q): process is still there using 350 MB.
I have to kill the process manually.
The problem is not that it takes more memory than the Windows 10 version, it is that the memory is not release when JRiver is closed.
Just to be clear, I am not complaining, I give you information to help the development.
Best regards,
-
Additional information :
The process is stopped and Memory released only when the Media Server is closed.
-
Additional information :
The process is stopped and Memory released only when the Media Server is closed.
That makes sense, in your use case Media Server is really where all of the work is being done.
-
That makes sense, in your use case Media Server is really where all of the work is being done.
Great. Thanks for the feedback.
-
I'm not JRiver (nor do I work for them) but if I recall correctly, it's not an easy thing to do on macOS. With Linux it's probably possible with ALSA, but if it were to ever happen and I had to guess, it may not happen anytime soon.
"Loopback" from "Rogue Amoeba" is working well. Maybe it's easier just to make "inputs" to JRiver that audio can routed to from another source, into JRiver DSP and out normally.
-
I will start testing the beta.
Amazed at the availability of a native version.
Thank You ! So happy I recently upgraded my JRiver license.
-
I will start testing the beta.
Amazed at the availability of a native version.
Thank You ! So happy I recently upgraded my JRiver license.
We were able to leverage our experience creating ARM builds for linux into this project.
Let us know what you find!
-
Just grabbed a copy of 27.0.44. Will give it a work out soon on my M1 mini.
-
We were able to leverage our experience creating ARM builds for linux into this project.
Let us know what you find!
it works well. Edit - I forgot to mention I tried with and without hardware acceleration on and my best results were with it on
I have the M1MM hooked up like a desktop right now because it didn't do anything other than 48KHz last time it was parked in the home theater rack. So I was testing today with actual AirPods on and the computer has a monitor, keyboard, mouse type stuff.
I watched plenty from my library today and it's working.
I have to thank you so much for the speed in which a new version came with support for the M1 Architecture. When I recently upgraded my JRiver account I was unsure it would still work on my unsupported 2010 MM. It did (I used the 2010 as a audios only server)
Edit 2 - Now listening to 24/96 Audio. Hooked up Draonfly black and it's registering correct sample rate. Stereo HR sounds great using Bose QC20. This makes me feel much better about life.
-
My M1 would not output anything other than 48Khz to my system.
I suppose patience is in order but for now I put the Mac mini to use as my new personal computer and I"m about to put my 2010 Mac mini back in use as a music only server. I don't have another machine that outputs 96Hz 5.1.
(I guess my BDP would but I would have to turn on the projector to navigate Blu Ray menus that are all different then turn it off again to avoid the fan noise.)
I'm loving the Mac mini but until I can get Hi Res audio from it, it's just going to be my daily computer. I was very wrong about it's capabilities for now.
-Brian
Hi Brian,
i had (have) a similar problem with my basic M1-Mac Mini.
In my case Audio Hijack would not record other than 48kHz, in spite Audio-MIDI-Setup was at the correct rate.
Some experiments later i found out that disconnecting my HDMI monitor did the trick. As soon as HDMI in any form is connected to the Mini, only 48kHz is possible. Even a HDMI dongle (for headless usage of the Mini) makes it impossible to record at rates other than 48kHz.
I could imagine you have a HDMI monitor connected, too?
Fred.
-
yes I was using HDMI.
Seems I need a dongle of some sort ... Very Apple
I wouldn't know a thunderbolt cable if I was hit by one.
As I said above 96KHz is no problem with my DragonFly even with an HDMI monitor hooked up.
This makes me wonder if I could get 96KHz out of HDMI if I had no monitor connected downstream. I may test that if I can setup a different monitor or use my iPad with sidecar.
-
After unplugging my HDMI and starting my record with the corect sample rate, i can replug the monitor. Then all is running well until i stop and restart recording.
If i use screen sharing without any HDMI involved, it is doing well, too.
Fred.
-
I’m going to pick up a usb c to hdmi adapter to see if I can get more sample rate options for audio.
-
Has anybody tested video capabilities with the new M1 chip?
-
M1 with Current Native Build Benchmark:
=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 1.900 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 2.662 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 0.620 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.920 seconds
Score: 3113
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0.454 seconds
Flood filling... 0.689 seconds
Direct copying... 0.220 seconds
Small renders... 0.503 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 0.508 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 0.080 seconds
Score: 8965
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0.051 seconds
Populate database... 0.710 seconds
Save database... 0.489 seconds
Reload database... 0.136 seconds
Search database... 0.587 seconds
Sort database... 0.541 seconds
Group database... 0.470 seconds
Score: 7201
JRMark (version 27.0.44 64 bit): 6427JRMark (version 27.0.44 64 bit): 6427
;D ;D
-
Using version 44 and enjoying it.
I have my Mac mini set up like a desktop computer for now. I recently bought a 4K computer monitor.
I will try to set this computer up in the theater again eventually but for now it's working great with headphones.
Watching so many things and it's not missing a beat.
-
Today I'm going to rebuild my 2010 (intel obviously) Mac mini music server.
The lack of surround sound 24/96 playback from my 2020 M1 Mac mini has encouraged me to keep my 2010 MM as a dedicated music server using JRiver of course.
I have a particular need for a music only server that can operate without a display (aside from it's remote) because I use a projector for my display and it makes fan noises when in use.
I love the high res surround mixes I have from Pink Floyd and trying to access them from blu rays directly without turning on the PJ for navigation is for the birds. Also, my Panasonic UB420 claims to support HR Audio but it is very un-usable for that.
=Brian
-
Today I'm going to rebuild my 2010 (intel obviously) Mac mini music server.
The lack of surround sound 24/96 playback from my 2020 M1 Mac mini has encouraged me to keep my 2010 MM as a dedicated music server using JRiver of course.
I have a particular need for a music only server that can operate without a display (aside from it's remote) because I use a projector for my display and it makes fan noises when in use.
I love the high res surround mixes I have from Pink Floyd and trying to access them from blu rays directly without turning on the PJ for navigation is for the birds. Also, my Panasonic UB420 claims to support HR Audio but it is very un-usable for that.
=Brian
I'm hoping Apple gets enough feedback on the audio issues on the M1 Mini that they decide to fix some of them (assuming the chipset can handle it).
-
Have to say, all went well putting my old system back into play.
I'm happy though to have easy access to my high res audio again! !!
All is well that ends well.
-Brian
-
They did correct one of the major shortcomings to the new Mac Mini.
One thing I had hoped it would do is stream iTunes 4K content and now it does so they corrected one of the slip ups.
-
M1 with Current Native Build Benchmark:
JRMark (version 27.0.44 64 bit): 6427
As a comparison, my late 2020 iMac (with Intel) is only 4560
-
Is 8GB enough memory to support JRiver on the M1 Mac Mini?
I don’t expect to be running many other applications if I use one as a HTPC.
-
I'm using an M1 Mac Mini with 8GB RAM as a daily driver computer, with a library of 80k+ files with album art, two tabs of view, one recent album and the other every song in the library in an album artist list view. Despite all this, MC27 rarely uses more than 1GB of memory on its own. For your use you'll have plenty of headroom.
-
Will the Mac Mini record TB programs with an HDHomerun? I read some information in the TV tuner section that implied a DMS tuner can only be used for viewing live programming.
-
Will the Mac Mini record TB programs with an HDHomerun? I read some information in the TV tuner section that implied a DMS tuner can only be used for viewing live programming.
Yes it will. I've used it on my Mac to record concerts with a HDHomerun.
-
I'm using an M1 Mac Mini with 8GB RAM as a daily driver computer, with a library of 80k+ files with album art, two tabs of view, one recent album and the other every song in the library in an album artist list view. Despite all this, MC27 rarely uses more than 1GB of memory on its own. For your use you'll have plenty of headroom.
This guy uses the base Mini for editing video with no troubles.
https://youtu.be/s9atVwHpoWk
-
I just took possession of a new base Mac Mini M1 (8G/256G) I cannot get it to pass sound over HDMI and I don't want to use USB since the processor I use is older and doesn't have usb. I do video as well so I really need HDMI. I get a warning that says my down stream hardware won't accept 48k 2 channel. Of course, Apple's Music program and VLC work perfectly. VLC does both audio and Video and Music only does Audio. MC 27, the latest build, looks and acts fine but it gives an error message for sound. If I play a Movie via mkv, the picture is fine but there is no sound.
I can only assume the problem lies with MC27 since VLC does everything fine. The good news is that this is a second level system so I don't need the highest in sonic performance, but I would prefer to stick with JRiver. Will there be a fix or do I need to find another program which works with the new mini?
-
I just took possession of a new base Mac Mini M1 (8G/256G) I cannot get it to pass sound over HDMI and I don't want to use USB since the processor I use is older and doesn't have usb. I do video as well so I really need HDMI. I get a warning that says my down stream hardware won't accept 48k 2 channel. Of course, Apple's Music program and VLC work perfectly. VLC does both audio and Video and Music only does Audio. MC 27, the latest build, looks and acts fine but it gives an error message for sound. If I play a Movie via mkv, the picture is fine but there is no sound.
I can only assume the problem lies with MC27 since VLC does everything fine. The good news is that this is a second level system so I don't need the highest in sonic performance, but I would prefer to stick with JRiver. Will there be a fix or do I need to find another program which works with the new mini?
There are some M1 problems. Try reading other threads here, starting with this one:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,128318.0.html
-
Yep, I'd say Jim has the right idea here. The problem isn't a JRiver Media Center problem at all, but a hardware limitation with the M1 Apple Silicon SoC with HDMI. The M1 is limited to and can only output 48 kHz via HDMI, so all other sample rates need to be be resampled to 48 kHz for it to work correctly. VLC and Apple Music works because the system is automatically doing the resampling in the background without informing the user (you in this case). It looks like it's a limitation of the M1's chipset, and hopefully it's something that Apple addresses with the M2. But since your downstream hardware doesn't appear to support 48 kHz, you're at a bit of an impasse here.
Usually to workaround the issue you have to resample everything to 48 kHz by going to DSP Studio > Output Format > Sample rate and setting all sample rates to 48,000 Hz. However, if your downstream hardware doesn't support 48 kHz and it has no option to resample on its end, unfortunately adding something like a USB DAC is likely the best option.
-
I'm curious if an JRiver ID or Raspi would work as a client (to the M1 w/MC) with HDMI output with less $$$ than a DAC.
-
I'm curious if an JRiver ID or Raspi would work as a client (to the M1 w/MC) with HDMI output with less $$$ than a DAC.
Do you mean the Id as a Renderer (playing to it)?
If so, it depends what you're playing and what the Id is connected to as a playback device.
-
I have DSP studio set to 48k - still no audio. I also tried 44.1k. The lower sample rate is not an issue for me, I just need to get audio!
-
I have DSP studio set to 48k - still no audio. I also tried 44.1k. The lower sample rate is not an issue for me, I just need to get audio!
Do you have integer mode or exclusive mode turned on?
If so turn them off.
If it still doesn't work, turn on logging and post a log here.
-
I turned them both off and I now have sound over HDMI. Thank you for yuour help. This is just an office system so I don't need the ultimate performance. I have a Baetis media server which runs on Windows 10 for my main stuff. It outputs AES/EBU, SPDIF, USB and HDMI of which AES/EBU is clearly the winner in my system.
-
I turned them both off and I now have sound over HDMI. Thank you for yuour help. This is just an office system so I don't need the ultimate performance. I have a Baetis media server which runs on Windows 10 for my main stuff. It outputs AES/EBU, SPDIF, USB and HDMI of which AES/EBU is clearly the winner in my system.
Good to hear you got it going!
-
Yep, I'd say Jim has the right idea here. The problem isn't a JRiver Media Center problem at all, but a hardware limitation with the M1 Apple Silicon SoC with HDMI.
You should probably stop giving advice about Macs.
Brian.
-
You should probably stop giving advice about Macs.
To be fair, I wasn't wrong. The Apple Silicon M1 over HDMI is seemingly hardware/chipset limited to only 48 kHz, and no fix from Apple has been released so it's been assumed it's a hardware limitation and that they can't fix it. The issue here was ultimately caused by exclusive mode or integer mode.
-
Yes, but your advice was essentially "stop trying, the M1 is broken. Sorry." Which is incorrect.
You seem to have a strong bias against Macs.
I don't mean any offense. In fact, I have been very complimentary of your work in support of MC for Linux. I think that was (and still is) excellent work.
I'm just puzzled as to why you consistently give negative advice about MC on a Mac. Especially since you don't own any kind of Mac.
Brian.
-
Yes, but your advice was essentially "stop trying, the M1 is broken. Sorry." Which is incorrect.
You seem to have a strong bias against Macs.
I don't think that's the case. I believe Awesome Donkey uses all three OS's.
Let's try not to make this personal.
-
Well, it's not 'broken' but it's a limitation. Bob has a whole topic about it where from his testing I'm basing my conclusion about the M1's HDMI output being limited to 48 kHz: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,128318.0.html
Especially since you don't own any kind of Mac.
Yes, correct, I don't own any Mac or any Apple product for that matter. And to be perfectly honest I wouldn't willing pay for an Apple product either, not because I hate Apple or hate their products, but because I don't like the idea of paying the Apple tax for something that I could build cheaper which would perform better than any Mac. With that said, I built my own Mac in the form of a Hackintosh, which works and functions perfectly, just like a real Mac.
And before anyone asks or points out the obvious, no, the macOS I run on my Hackintosh isn't hacked or modified in any way - it's vanilla macOS running directly on my PC hardware. Yes, I'm aware Apple doesn't officially support Hackintoshes, and I don't need their support, I can support myself if I run into any issues. Yes, I'm aware that macOS' EULA states that macOS is designed for and supposed to only run on real Macs, but at least with the Intel-based ones, they use the same hardware PCs use which allow it to easily run on a PC. My PC's hardware was purposely chosen for this purpose, as it closely matches the hardware found in a iMac19,1. No, it's not piracy because 1) macOS is publicly available on their servers, which anyone on any OS can directly download for free and 2) Apple doesn't sell macOS anymore, upgrades or otherwise, since I believe Mac OS X Mavericks. However, if you download a macOS-based distro that some shady groups release for download, I would consider that to be piracy since those distros always use modified/hacked/cracked/pirated kexts and third-party apps, yuck! Yes, I know it's against Apple's EULA and I'm breaking that EULA but it's not illegal for your own personal use, so Apple can go pound sand in that regard as Hackintoshes exist in what you could call a grey area. And finally, yes, I know the Hackintosh days are now numbered because of Apple Silicon, but it should still be several years until the last Intel-based Mac's support ends. When that happens, then I'm done with macOS. Until then, I'll use a Hackintosh.
Now, the only way a Hackintosh would be illegal is if you build a Hackintosh and sell it, which several companies like Psystar have tried to do in the past which got shut down pretty quick via Apple's lawyers and lawsuits. If you build a Hackintosh for yourself for your own personal use, that's fine.
-
Here's the thing: Your diagnosis was dead wrong. Yes, the M1 appears to have a sample rate limitation of 48kHz; I've read the threads. But that's not what this person's problem was. I believe you jumped to conclusions simply because of your anti-Apple bias. It's abundantly clear in your rebuttal that you dislike the company, feel that they overcharge customers, and that you will not be "taken" by Apple.
To me, it seems to influence the advice you give. In this very thread you advised someone that the M1 would never work for them with MC. Before it was released. Before you had any evidence.
I don't want to fight. Again, I actually do respect you. I just feel this is a weird thing for you where you are offering (often wrong) advice to people, about products you do not own. Because you hate the company.
I won't bring this up again. You certainly have received my message. You can choose to do whatever you want, including totally ignoring me.
Best wishes (and I mean that)
Brian.