INTERACT FORUM
More => Music, Movies, Politics, and Other Cheap Thrills => Topic started by: JimH on July 23, 2021, 07:52:16 am
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There's a lot of discussion going on about safety, etc. How do you feel?
All votes are anonymous. Replies aren't.
Thanks.
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Well, not sure if there is much freedom to choose, if you belong to a risk group.
Either take an educated guess with the vaccine on safety, or get infected and sleep 2 weeks on your belly at the IC, with a chance the stay is permanent.
So far Pfizer doesn't reveal much side effects.
Fingers crossed.
Should add a 2nd poll, which vaccine:
- Pfizer-BioNTech
- Moderna
- Johnson & Johnson’s
- Janssen
- Sputnik V
- Sinovac
- Astrazeneca
We're catching up:
(https://i.imgur.com/ryDMPLR.png)
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Should add a 2nd poll, which vaccin:
Pfizer-BioNTech
Moderna
Johnson & Johnson’s-Janssen
Sputnik V
Sinovac
You'll need to add a few more in that case:
Astrazeneca x 2
Astrazenca + mRNA
mRNA mix
Canadians have been advised to take the first available vaccination, whatever it might be. Then we stopped using Astrazeneca. My first shot was Pfizer, and I booked an appointment for a second shot of Pfizer, but when I showed up I was told it would be Moderna. The situation was exacerbated when already low levels of the Pfizer supply were reserved for those under 18 as it's the only one currently approved (in Canada) for that age group. In any event, I'm grateful that I have received two doses - and that the uptake in Ontario is very high (over 85% of adults have had at least one dose and over 65% of adults are fully vaccinated).
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My wife is a healthcare professional and tested positive for Covid early on (as we expected would happen). I didn't catch it. A family member suspected, because we never get the flu, that I may have immunity. So, I went and had the antibody test which showed I had T-cell immunity. I have 6 brothers who found when they took the test, have the same, as do my three sons. All but one brother took the test.
There is zero reason for me to get the vaccine. I have natural immunity. I am not alone in the world, there are many others. That's why the percentage of who has received the vaccine is a false statistic.
I believe the first thing one should do is take the antibody test and then proceed from there on what they consider the best route for them; rather they vax or not. This isn't a one size fits all and the world will be cured, as the narrative goes So, saying that, I really don't fall under your poll choices.
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The AMA apparently can't agree with "natural immunity" yet.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/ama/93179
Note what was said about the type of test needed. (titer)
The likelihood of an entire family having such immunity seems improbable to me. Interesting story though.
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The AMA apparently can't agree with "natural immunity" yet.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/ama/93179
Note what was said about the type of test needed. (titer)
The likelihood of an entire family having such immunity seems improbable to me. Interesting story though.
It evidently is hereditary. The AMA isn't sure of a lot of things in relation to this. I have read articles saying that the vaccination may actually hinder natural immunity. I don't know. Things are all over the place. If you try to do any research it's difficult with conflicting data. I'm a believer in trying to do due diligence and make the best decision you can. I'm not criticizing folks either way.
Reference genetics and T-Cell. https://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2021-02-18-genetics-may-play-role-in-determining-immunity-to-covid-19.aspx (https://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2021-02-18-genetics-may-play-role-in-determining-immunity-to-covid-19.aspx)
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Certainly possible and I agree about the problem finding information. You can pretty much find whatever you want.
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Indeed, Last week I found a pike on the top of a hill
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My wife is a healthcare professional and tested positive for Covid early on (as we expected would happen). I didn't catch it. A family member suspected, because we never get the flu, that I may have immunity. So, I went and had the antibody test which showed I had T-cell immunity. I have 6 brothers who found when they took the test, have the same, as do my three sons. All but one brother took the test.
There is zero reason for me to get the vaccine. I have natural immunity. I am not alone in the world, there are many others. That's why the percentage of who has received the vaccine is a false statistic.
I believe the first thing one should do is take the antibody test and then proceed from there on what they consider the best route for them; rather they vax or not. This isn't a one size fits all and the world will be cured, as the narrative goes So, saying that, I really don't fall under your poll choices.
You can be immune and/or asymptomatic and still be a carrier - infecting other people. At least protect others from yourself by wearing a mask until the pandemic abates.
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Jim - There's a category missing from the poll - Can't be Vaccinated for Medical Reasons
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Some in the risk group have 3 shots.
Soon to be added Pfizer V2021 and/or booster
Vaccinated people sadly transmit the delta as well, and have symptoms. It did fine against first variants though
I don't believe the world will soon look like it did in 2019
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The AMA apparently can't agree with "natural immunity" yet.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/ama/93179
Note what was said about the type of test needed. (titer)
The likelihood of an entire family having such immunity seems improbable to me. Interesting story though.
👍👍👍
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You can be immune and/or asymptomatic and still be a carrier - infecting other people. At least protect others from yourself by wearing a mask until the pandemic abates.
This is probably the most important point. This isn't over by a long shot and wearing masks is simple and easy.
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The most dangerous threat from these anti-vaccine crowd is the cultivation of new variants. Pfizer and other vaccines works well only against known variants to the time of their development
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The most dangerous threat from these anti-vaccine crowd is the cultivation of new variants. Pfizer and other vaccines works well only against known variants to the time of their development
It is likely that the variants are originating from vaccinated people. Recall that the variants began to emerge after we started vaccinating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNyAovuUxro
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It is likely that the variants are originating from vaccinated people. Recall that the variants began to emerge after we started vaccinating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNyAovuUxro
Quite likely not true. The Delta variant gained its major foothold in India in late 2020, where little vaccination had occurred. There were many variants before vaccinations were started. Variants are not a result of vaccinations. They are a natural part of the evolution of viruses.
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They are a natural part of the evolution of viruses.
Exactly. Viruses are constantly mutating and evolving.
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The most dangerous threat from these anti-vaccine crowd is the cultivation of new variants. Pfizer and other vaccines works well only against known variants to the time of their development
Although not guarantied, many vaccines are effective against new variants. The RNA vaccines in particular have proved very effective against new variants like Delta. A new study shows that Pfizer is 93% effective against Delta when both shots have been administered.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891
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Although not guarantied, many vaccines are effective against new variants. The RNA vaccines in particular have proved very effective against new variants like Delta. A new study shows that Pfizer is 93% effective against Delta when both shots have been administered.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891
Effectivity is around 40%, this is what Dept of Health released recently
You can see what happens in Israel with over 70% vaccination. No massive deaths, but people get sick.
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Effectiveness of vaccine is falling 10-20% per month in Israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNbs4LCgrcY
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Effectivity is around 40%, this is what Dept of Health released recently
You can see what happens in Israel with over 70% vaccination. No massive deaths, but people get sick.
The 40% number is for contracting the disease. The 90% numbers are for getting very sick and being hospitalized.
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I'm prepping for a LOT of travel to the 'worst' of the third world in 2022, so here is my program......
09 Apr 2021 COVID 1 of 2
09 May 2021 COVID 2 of 2
10 May 2021 Shingles 1 of 2
24 May 2021 Tdap & Pneumococcal
14 June 2021 TwinRix (Hep A+B) 1 of 3
28 June 2021 MMR 1 of 2
12 July 2021 TwinRix (Hep A+B) 2 of 3
07 Sep 2021 Shingles 2 of 2
01 Nov 2021 COVID 3 (Moderna) if available
15 Nov 2021 Seasonal Flu
15 Nov 2021 MMR 2 of 2
13 Dec 2021 TwinRix (Hep A+B) 3 of 3
And in Jan 2022, the tropical big-6 shots start....
Begin Jan 2022 Meningitis
Begin Jan 2022 Polio
Begin Jan 2022 Yellow Fever
Begin Jan 2022 Cholera
Begin Jan 2022 Typhoid
Begin Jan 2022 Typhus
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The 40% number is for contracting the disease. The 90% numbers are for getting very sick and being hospitalized.
In Israel, anti-vaccination movement is weak, people are smart to enough to get vaccinated, now around half of teens over 12 yrs old is vaccinated.
On a larger scale - the rate of delta spread is slowed, but it is still there, and rising (!!), R is around 1.2.
And people die. Yes, vaccinated.
Waiting for the improved vaccine.. What can I say
We were on holiday in Greece, everyone with masks, did not eat inside. I took business class seat to avoid crowds.. And wife contracted this nuts. Fever was low, but headache and weakness for around a week. Not nice. We are fully vaccinated since February
In US CDC does not want to talk about 3rd shot and that the vaccine is effective for just 6 months to motivate people to get vaccinated (and I think this is important because of variants), but the truth is sad. We need to get new shots periodically and I don't know when this will end.
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And people die. Yes, vaccinated.
Once everyone is vaccinated, only vaccinated people contract it or even die from the virus. Its a fact many forget. Its why they say its 90% effective (or whatever number the different vaccines list), they don't work for every case.
But the numbers will be vastly reduced.
Vaccination against an evolving virus like this one will never be 100%, but by reducing the cases by 90% already, you limit its ability to spread, and you take a lot of pressure off of the health care system.
Vaccination can also simply mean that you have a far lower reaction to getting infected, because your immune system already has an idea what to do about it.
These are all expected results and widely available information. Getting vaccinated doesn't guarantee immunity. But it gives you a significantly better chance to either not get it, or just beat it quickly without problems.
And yes, its very likely that we'll need to re-up after 6-12 months. Maybe once. Maybe more often. I don't see this as a big deal. You go in and get a quick shot. A bit worse for those with severe reactions to the vaccine, but for the majority you get a bit of aching for a day and thats that. What else are you going to do, just not? Nevermind that you either have to get constantly tested or just be excluded from much social life, its also risking your own health and that of those around you. Its just the reality how it is, and we can't change it. And noone to blame, except for misinformation and bad handling. Around here they certainly are talking about a potential 3rd shot as soon as october for those that got theirs early.
PS:
Personally, I would have advocated to just not go on international vacations over the last year and a half. Its just a risk not worth taking.
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PS:
Personally, I would have advocated to just not go on international vacations over the last year and a half. Its just a risk not worth taking.
Exactly what I did last year and again this year. Just not worth the risk.
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So far, the fully vaccinated percentage is 83% and partially or fully is 89%.
According to the NY Times, in the U.S., the corresponding numbers are 60% and 69% for 18 and over.
Significant difference.
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Exactly. Viruses are constantly mutating and evolving.
True - The Flu Vaccine has to be reformulated nearly every year because the virus keeps mutating.
Over here in the UK the 3rd Vaccine Dose is constantly referred to as a Booster Shot that everyone in the Vulnerable Groups would need to have annually at the same time as the Flu vaccine. They are even carrying out research to see if the 2 vaccines (Covid and Flu) can be merged into a single vaccine.
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Once everyone is vaccinated, only vaccinated people contract it or even die from the virus. Its a fact many forget. Its why they say its 90% effective (or whatever number the different vaccines list), they don't work for every case.
But the numbers will be vastly reduced.
Vaccination against an evolving virus like this one will never be 100%, but by reducing the cases by 90% already, you limit its ability to spread, and you take a lot of pressure off of the health care system.
Vaccination can also simply mean that you have a far lower reaction to getting infected, because your immune system already has an idea what to do about it.
These are all expected results and widely available information. Getting vaccinated doesn't guarantee immunity. But it gives you a significantly better chance to either not get it, or just beat it quickly without problems.
And yes, its very likely that we'll need to re-up after 6-12 months. Maybe once. Maybe more often. I don't see this as a big deal. You go in and get a quick shot. A bit worse for those with severe reactions to the vaccine, but for the majority you get a bit of aching for a day and thats that. What else are you going to do, just not? Nevermind that you either have to get constantly tested or just be excluded from much social life, its also risking your own health and that of those around you. Its just the reality how it is, and we can't change it. And noone to blame, except for misinformation and bad handling. Around here they certainly are talking about a potential 3rd shot as soon as october for those that got theirs early.
PS:
Personally, I would have advocated to just not go on international vacations over the last year and a half. Its just a risk not worth taking.
Completely agree. Yet, vacations we were locked for almost 2 years at home..
Yes, it removes the pressure from the health system at large, however you can see on the graphs that total number of infectious is rising, as well as more severe cases including hospitilizing and deaths, however very small numbers yet rising as well.
Wearing masks were canceled and made mandatory again, some restrictions for gathering are back, green passport will be back in 2 weeks (there is small number of anti vaccationation crowd that will be forced to either pay every time for the test to enter a gym or get a shot), red countries list is growing
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Israel started vaccination campaign with 3rd shot. Now 60 yrs and older. Didn't wait for FDA
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Israel started vaccination campaign with 3rd shot. Now 60 yrs and older. Didn't wait for FDA
Under the current Emergency Use Order in the US, most people cannot get a third vaccine. Pfizer is currently working towards getting approval, but most people will have to wait for that approval before they can get a third shot. Some immunocompromised people are getting a third shot, but have to show that the initial ones are not working as intended. In Israel, they approved a booster shot for those over 65 who got their shots more than 5 months ago. Immunocompromised people can also get a booster.
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So far, the fully vaccinated percentage is 83% and partially or fully is 89%.
According to the NY Times, in the U.S., the corresponding numbers are 60% and 69% for 18 and over.
Significant difference.
JH you are correct. While the percentage of the numbers is certainly an indicator of the vaccination rate, there is still the fact that many people will never get vaccinated. I just can't wrap my head around that kind of thinking. 😱
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So far, the fully vaccinated percentage is 83% and partially or fully is 89%.
According to the NY Times, in the U.S., the corresponding numbers are 60% and 69% for 18 and over.
Significant difference.
Audiophiles and computer users in general are underrepresented in the unvaccinated population. This is not a representative poll.
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Audiophiles and computer users in general are underrepresented in the unvaccinated population. This is not a representative poll.
Post covid world will be dominated by audiophils and computer users :)
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Post covid world will be dominated by audiophils and computer users :)
Haha, he said "underrepresented <as> unvaccinated.." the computer users and audiophiles will be gone. :(
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Haha, he said "underrepresented <as> unvaccinated.." the computer users and audiophiles will be gone. :(
Nope. Double negative - underrepresented ... unvaccinated, which equates to overrepresented ... vaccinated.
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;D
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Post covid world will be dominated by audiophils and computer users
That will be a miserable world to live in. +6 glasses, pimpels and discussions on every possible bit .........
We also need Penny's in our world.........
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That will be a miserable world to live in. +6 glasses, pimpels and discussions on every possible bit .........
We also need Penny's in our world.........
++1
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This topic is a strange thing to post on a support forum. Next, a poll can be done about Jan 6. I can see being curious about the survey, but comments aren't a good idea. It's akin to asking what your religious status is. People will generally answer the religion question based on their indoctrination as a child then defend their choice of deity based on emotion. People will generally start commenting on the vax subject based on their indoctrination from mainstream media. No one has posted anything extreme yet but there is mention of passports and antivaxers.
People are free to protect themselves as they see fit. That's what a vax is, personal protection. This is a personal choice and should be kept personal. To demand that someone else needs an injection so that yours will work is immoral, illogical and a violation of human rights. Before condemning or coercing others I hope that people would spend just a little time researching and thinking about:
- The only thing claimed by the companies that are manufacturing the vax's is that they will reduce symptoms mildly. They were never meant to stop infection or the spread.
- the track record of the companies manufacturing the experimental vax's (search largest settlement in history).
- Who is liable for injuries (hint 1986).
- What the inventors of the PCR test and the MRNA vax have to to say about how their inventions are being used.
- Antibody-dependent enhancement.
- The results of all previous animal trials for similar vax's (which were skipped this time).
- Natural immunity. The idea that heard immunity can only be achieved by a vax has been around as long as the current vax. (search for when definitions were changed).
- The largest censorship campaign in online history.
- Patents, and who owns patents, of viruses and vax's.
- Informed consent.
- There is more to health than being virus free: social health, physical health, mental health, and spiritual health to name just a few.
The negative affects of lock downs to people in my life has been a hundred times worse than the virus, and adverse reactions a thousand. I am not trying to trigger anyone or start a debate. Taking experimental substance as a one size fits all solution for the entire planet is not a decision that should be taken lightly. It's not a political issue. If you are gung ho on your vax now, think about the future. How many booster shots until your enthusiasm wanes. Please show some empathy towards others, educate yourself and act rationally.
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The negative affects of lock downs to people in my life has been a hundred times worse than the virus, and adverse reactions a thousand. I am not trying to trigger anyone or start a debate. Taking experimental substance as a one size fits all solution for the entire planet is not a decision that should be taken lightly. It's not a political issue. If you are gung ho on your vax now, think about the future. How many booster shots until your enthusiasm wanes. Please show some empathy towards others, educate yourself and act rationally.
Agree that everybody is entitled to their opinion. Their body - their choice.
And good debate (without bashing or ridiculing your opponent) imho is always better than alternatives.
Vaccines takes years to develop ... but in this case things have been fast track. There are risks to that especcially since this involves a lot of money and political gains. But covid situation is critical, and alternative to not vaccinating is far greater imho (Italy?).
People tend to focus on current missery without realizing it can be much worst. I am not saying lockdown or side effects of vaccine is easy and ppl just wine about it (it is hard both psychologically and financially). But consider alternative when you are sick and get turn down at hospital because there are no place. And this is not hypothetical ... again Italy? ... when doctors turn down eldery cause their chance of survival is less than younger ppl (i do not pretend even to imagine what doctors have to go through when telling this to eldery).
And dont forget all those doctors, nurses, and staff working at hospitals double time (including admin and cleaners).
Yes, vaccine is not perfect ... yes, there are risks ... but alternative is grimmer.
Ps. I am from third world country (as Bush puts it - from banana country ... as Trump puts it - from s**t hole) ... i took oral polio vaccine (not much choice at that age lol) ... there is small chance i could have got polio from this (OPV contains live virus), but if i were my parents at that time, i would have make my kids take it ... cause alternative is worst.
Pss. These days ppl take injection polio vaccine (IPV) that contain no live virus.
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The negative affects of lock downs to people in my life has been a hundred times worse than the virus, and adverse reactions a thousand. I am not trying to trigger anyone or start a debate. Taking experimental substance as a one size fits all solution for the entire planet is not a decision that should be taken lightly. It's not a political issue. If you are gung ho on your vax now, think about the future. How many booster shots until your enthusiasm wanes. Please show some empathy towards others, educate yourself and act rationally.
A couple of my friends are doctors in one of the state's most prominent hospitals. They told me that not one single person in the ICU infected with Covid has ever said to them "I'm so glad I didn't get that vaccine".
Masks and vaccines (aside from complete self-isolation) are the best protection we have against this worldwide pandemic at the moment. The solutions are not perfect but it beats dying or worse, infecting your fellow unsuspecting human beings. This extraordinary, dangerous pandemic calls for extraordinary measures on our part. Just get the d... vaccine and pray we can finally beat this thing before more people have to die in the process. It's a no brainer...
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What we can do with anti-vaccination medical care workers?
In Tel-Aviv Sourasky Center there is only one patient connected to ECMO, and she is unvaccinated doctor!
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What we can do with anti-vaccination medical care workers?
In Tel-Aviv Sourasky Center there is only one patient connected to ECMO, and she is unvaccinated doctor!
Mandatory vaccination of healthcare workers, and other major businesses are just beginning to be addressed. Namely, the federal government and a few of the major employers, i.e. Walmart, Disney, etc.
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When I went to live in Africa for a couple of years I had to show proof of vaccination for about a half dozen fatal diseases or you didn't get to go. I was vaccinated against TB, Smallpox, Polio and a number of other things as a kid and never suffered from any of them. I still remember the little girl across the road who spent her life walking in calipers as a result of the polio virus. I'm pretty tired of people making up reasons to dish the vaccines, generally using the 'I'm scared of the dark' set of arguments. It's a simple choice really, but I agree that you can always choose the more dangerous road.
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The world is moving to mandatory vaccination, otherwise we will all live like Bruce Willis in 12 Monkeys
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You'll need to add a few more in that case:
Astrazeneca x 2
Astrazenca + mRNA
mRNA mix
and Novavax
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Nonya. Nonya bidness! Tell me that I have to be fully vaccinated before I can use JRiver and I will be done.
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Never been vaccinated in my life, had the flu and tonsilitis many times in my youth, but found the cause was dairy milk, so cut that out and never had flu or sickness of any kind for the past 55 years, except for the odd cold. Eat little meat, mainly fresh homegrown fruit and veg, low carb, no pharma drugs (except for a tooth extraction) no antibiotics, plenty of exercises in gardening, cycling and hiking, lots of sun, injuries treated with natural remedies herbs, tinctures, poultices and homoeopathy, 1 to 3-week maintenance detox fast a couple of times a year, herbal tea, wine or homebrew IPA beer:) No arthritis or any other degenerative diseases, no aches or pains, eyesight better than in my youth when I had to wear glasses, everything works great, so I'm just keeping to this path.
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Nonya. Nonya bidness! Tell me that I have to be fully vaccinated before I can use JRiver and I will be done.
JRiver should be excluded from AV ;D
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Never been vaccinated in my life, had the flu and tonsilitis many times in my youth, but found the cause was dairy milk, so cut that out and never had flu or sickness of any kind for the past 55 years, except for the odd cold. Eat little meat, mainly fresh homegrown fruit and veg, low carb, no pharma drugs (except for a tooth extraction) no antibiotics, plenty of exercises in gardening, cycling and hiking, lots of sun, injuries treated with natural remedies herbs, tinctures, poultices and homoeopathy, 1 to 3-week maintenance detox fast a couple of times a year, herbal tea, wine or homebrew IPA beer:) No arthritis or any other degenerative diseases, no aches or pains, eyesight better than in my youth when I had to wear glasses, everything works great, so I'm just keeping to this path.
I'm no medical expert but I'm pretty sure that diary milk doesn't cause flu or tonsillitis.
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Never been vaccinated in my life, had the flu and tonsilitis many times in my youth, but found the cause was dairy milk, so cut that out and never had flu or sickness of any kind for the past 55 years, except for the odd cold. Eat little meat, mainly fresh homegrown fruit and veg, low carb, no pharma drugs (except for a tooth extraction) no antibiotics, plenty of exercises in gardening, cycling and hiking, lots of sun, injuries treated with natural remedies herbs, tinctures, poultices and homoeopathy, 1 to 3-week maintenance detox fast a couple of times a year, herbal tea, wine or homebrew IPA beer:) No arthritis or any other degenerative diseases, no aches or pains, eyesight better than in my youth when I had to wear glasses, everything works great, so I'm just keeping to this path.
Vaccination is not for you, nobody cares about you.
It's about protecting those that are weak and/or cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. And protecting the public Healthcare system from collapsing.
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I'm 76 now. Amazing. Anyone less than 70 probably has no memory of Polio. Read a little about why it's not a major threat now.
Jonas Salk invented the Salk Vaccine, introduced in 1955.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Salk
He may have saved my life. My cousin had polio around that time.
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Vaccination is not for you, nobody cares about you.
I care. His family and friends care.
It's about protecting those that are weak and/or cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.
Is the only way to protect these people to demand that everyone else take an experimental injection with no long term safety testing? Are lock downs and the closure of small businesses protecting them too?
If you are supporting segregation, bullying, loss of freedoms, loss of privacy, loss of human rights for perceived collective good you are on the wrong side of history. The day will come when people in support of the current medical tyranny will hang their head in shame. Remember coercion is illegal, choice is the backbone of human rights. Everyone is essential.
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And these are the guys calling the other side "snowflakes" ::)
You need to read about the Spanish flu and how it was back then. You also need to get out of your echo chamber.
I care. His family and friends care.
I don't doubt this. But if they really want to protect each other, they would stop whining and just take the vaccine and follow the recommendations in order to minimize risk.
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To be honest I'm pretty much convinced (and jaded) to the point to think we're all screwed now, probably couldn't stop the spread at this point even if everyone wanted to.
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Nah, it's just Natural Selection at work. Plenty of Darwin Awards to give out.
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I care. His family and friends care.
Is the only way to protect these people to demand that everyone else take an experimental injection with no long term safety testing? Are lock downs and the closure of small businesses protecting them too?
If you are supporting segregation, bullying, loss of freedoms, loss of privacy, loss of human rights for perceived collective good you are on the wrong side of history. The day will come when people in support of the current medical tyranny will hang their head in shame. Remember coercion is illegal, choice is the backbone of human rights. Everyone is essential.
Among the unnvaccinated spread rate of the the virus is 6.5 times than of (fully) vaccinated, if referring to current Pfizer vaccine
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You also need to get out of your echo chamber.
Pot calling the kettle black
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Pot calling the kettle black
There's always that danger. But as a non-US person I enjoy a more distanced view than most of you over there and can read from both sides without much bias since I don't have any horse in the race. I also value expert opinion and research more than what TV personalities and politicians say (for ratings and votes), so there's that... when 99% of scientists say the same, and 50% of politics say something else, you can guess who's likely to be wrong.
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There's always that danger.
Can't agree with this. The writer is always in full control of the keyboard
when 99% of scientists say the same
Source???
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"There's always that danger." -> I meant, there's always the danger of being biased without knowing it (that what a bias is after all). You said that I was also in an echo chamber, implying that I also have a skewed view; that is a possibility. In fact, everyone has a bias towards some side, as it's not possible for a human to be completely objective. Scientists recognize this, hence the scientific method is all about discussing and proving results not only to others, but to oneself. So I don't deal in absolutes, I recognize that my opinions might be flawed and read a lot from both sides to get to a conclusion; this is what I don't see the antivaxx, anti-5g, flat-earthers, election-deniers, and oh-so-many-other-conspiracy-nuts doing.
Source???
Not Fox News.
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Never been vaccinated in my life, had the flu and tonsilitis many times in my youth, but found the cause was dairy milk, so cut that out and never had flu or sickness of any kind for the past 55 years, except for the odd cold. Eat little meat, mainly fresh homegrown fruit and veg, low carb, no pharma drugs (except for a tooth extraction) no antibiotics, plenty of exercises in gardening, cycling and hiking, lots of sun, injuries treated with natural remedies herbs, tinctures, poultices and homoeopathy, 1 to 3-week maintenance detox fast a couple of times a year, herbal tea, wine or homebrew IPA beer:) No arthritis or any other degenerative diseases, no aches or pains, eyesight better than in my youth when I had to wear glasses, everything works great, so I'm just keeping to this path.
There are vaccines administered to new born (polio, TB, hepatitis ... just to name few). Unless your parents deliberately kept you from vaccination, you should have got those ... but dont recall it.
You are indeed lucky to be blessed with good health and never get in contact with deadly decease. I too never had flu shots ... until I got one ... it was certainly not fun being nailed to the bed for a week ... something i would like to avoid, hence now I am taking flu shots.
Plus if you ever been beaten by animal ... rabies vaccine is a must ... unless you want to bet your life on it ... rabies is 100% fatal once symptoms shows (there are maybe 1 or 2 documented survival).
And as other mentioned ... it not just about me ... its about my family and friends too ... do i want to be burden to them when virus strike me down ... or worst, pass that virus to them
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It's all about risk management. Is the vaccine risk-free? No. Does it have severe/fatal reactions in some cases? Yes. That's the same with ANY vaccine! However, the benefits FAR outweigh the risk.
When I was taking the COVID shots (and others, I've already had a tetanus shot afterwards), I was aware that there was a non-zero chance that I might have a negative reaction and might die 1 hour later. Same when I took my son there, I know the same can happen to him... however, this is STILL the safest option, by far. The risk of dying by COVID or causing others to die or having a prolonged hospital stay is MUCH higher, as the numbers are showing.
This is true not only for COVID, but of many other diseases for which there are vaccines that pretty much eradicated them in most of the world. People don't remember how it was before vaccines. Suddenly this vaccine is somehow worse than the others, even though medicinal technology has progressed by leaps and bounds over the last few decades, leading to lower mortality rates and higher life expectancy. That is not a coincidence.
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There are vaccines administered to new born (polio, TB, hepatitis ... just to name few). Unless your parents deliberately kept you from vaccination, you should have got those ... but dont recall it.
This really started with the 1986 law absolving Vaccine Manufacturers from liability. Look into infant mortality rate in the US compared to other developed countries. It is the highest. Do babies need a hep B vaccine? Are they doing a lot of party drugs in their first year? Remember when kids were healthy and and didn't have autoimmune diseases? Autoimmune diseases have increased 7 percent per year for the last 30 years. I got all of my childhood vax's just before 86, there was just a couple of them. I, and all my friends, got along just fine without the 72 that kids now get by the time they are 18.
That's the same with ANY vaccine! However, the benefits FAR outweigh the risk.
6 months in this can not be known. Can you tell me how many kids have had heart inflammation from taking a vax for a virus they have basically zero risk from? Any is too many. Look at the pharmaceutical companies own studies on this, the adverse reactions for kids are way too high. How will this new one react with the 72 other ones they received?
Suddenly this vaccine is somehow worse than the others
Yes. Long term effects aren't known. Animal trials of similar vax's went horribly bad. There have been many vaccines that have killed so many people they needed pulled. They aren't all God's gift to mankind. Just because they repeated the mantra of safe and effective for 6 months doesn't make it true. It doesn't look to be too effective in Israel.
I hope that people look into where they are getting their information from. Get your information from people and organizations without an unprecedented history of fraud and corruption. There are scientists, doctors, and nurses risking their lives, reputations, and livelihood to share their information that paints a different picture than that of the mainstream media. Look for truth instead of a scapegoat. Even if you use all of the published data from official studies, case counts, and clinical trials it will paint a different picture than the mainstream. How did that WMD situation turn out. Did we find them all?
I keep up with all of the official numbers from the province I live in and those that neighbour me. No more people have died than previous years. The vast majority of those that have died WITH (not from) covid where over the average age of death, and in government run care facilities. The vast majority of people that weren't old had comorbidites and were obese. In last year in Canada for people under 50, more have died from constipation than Covid.
To think someone has to be either pro vax or antivax is mental. I am not antivax but I am anti giving children experimental injections that they do not need. How about only necessary vaccines given to people that need and want them with maximum testing and safety precautions. How about pharmaceutical companies stand behind their product.
The point I have been trying to convey here is that the situation isn't as simple as get to 80 percent and get back to normal. It does not justify human right violations, dehumanizing those who disagree with you, or segregation based on personal confidential medical information.
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syndromeofadown,
According to the NY Times, 616 people died yesterday from Covid. 71,540 were hospitalized. Most were unvaccinated.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
What do you propose we do?
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@Admins
May I kindly suggest to move this thread to INTERACT FORUM >More >Music, Movies, Politics, and Other Cheap Thrills
It feels sort of strange seeing this when looking for MC28 Windows support/information.
Thank you!
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It is a little strange, I agree
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To think someone has to be either pro vax or antivax is mental. I am not antivax but I am anti giving children experimental injections that they do not need. How about only necessary vaccines given to people that need and want them with maximum testing and safety precautions. How about pharmaceutical companies stand behind their product.
Nice to see a rational and sober comment such as this!
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A few facts that you won't see mentioned my ANY news outlet:
>The COVID shots do not prevent infection or transmission, hence the variants created
inside vaccinated individuals will spread. This hypothesis was confirmed in a 2015 study,
which found that “imperfect vaccination can enhance the transmission of highly virulent
pathogens”
> Research shows fully vaccinated individuals who develop breakthrough infections with
the Delta variant have the same viral loads as unvaccinated individuals infected with this
virus, hence both groups can spread the infection to the same degree
> Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show 74% of COVID-19
diagnoses in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, between July 6 through July 25, 2021,
and 80% of hospitalizations, were among the fully vaccinated. Additionally, four of five
hospitalized patients were fully vaccinated. Only one was not fully vaccinated.
> When vaccines that don’t provide robust immunity are overused, they allow viruses to
mutate in potentially hazardous ways. COVID variants with measurably different behavior
emerged in mid-December 2020, which coincides with the rollout of the first COVID shots
If you don't like what you just read don't shoot the messenger. Do you own research.
If you're getting your information from ANY corporate or government run / subsidized "news" organization you're simply NOT getting the facts.
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A few facts that you won't see mentioned my ANY news outlet:
>The COVID shots do not prevent infection or transmission, hence the variants created
inside vaccinated individuals will spread. This hypothesis was confirmed in a 2015 study,
which found that “imperfect vaccination can enhance the transmission of highly virulent
pathogens”
> Research shows fully vaccinated individuals who develop breakthrough infections with
the Delta variant have the same viral loads as unvaccinated individuals infected with this
virus, hence both groups can spread the infection to the same degree
> Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show 74% of COVID-19
diagnoses in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, between July 6 through July 25, 2021,
and 80% of hospitalizations, were among the fully vaccinated. Additionally, four of five
hospitalized patients were fully vaccinated. Only one was not fully vaccinated.
> When vaccines that don’t provide robust immunity are overused, they allow viruses to
mutate in potentially hazardous ways. COVID variants with measurably different behavior
emerged in mid-December 2020, which coincides with the rollout of the first COVID shots
If you don't like what you just read don't shoot the messenger. Do you own research.
If you're getting your information from ANY corporate or government run / subsidized "news" organization you're simply NOT getting the facts.
Not trying to shoot the messanger ... but those research are likely done in less time span than it took to develop, test and approved (to be totally honest ... emergency approved) vaccine ... likely on substantally less "test subjects" (i am struggling to honestly find better term so as not dehuminize volunteers involved)
There is tendency in scientific community to do lots of research in short time span in order to get quickly published. A good research ... needs to be verified ... Einstein relativity research was just that ... until it was verified.
Not saying you should blindly follow what government tells you ... but inaction in this case is not an option imho
Bad commander is the one who dont react ... good commander is the one that reacts fast ... a very good commandet is the one who reacts fast and correct.
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@Admins
May I kindly suggest to move this thread to INTERACT FORUM >More >Music, Movies, Politics, and Other Cheap Thrills
It feels sort of strange seeing this when looking for MC28 Windows support/information.
Thank you!
Agree. This has been placed in the incorrect forum, imo.
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It is a little strange, I agree
I agree as well. I do appreciate that you aren't deleting my posts.
What do you propose we do?
Uphold the constitution. Stop cancel culture and censorship. Look to countries with no lockdowns and low cases and deaths as examples. Look to doctors who are saving people everyday with things like early treatment. Promote healthy lifestyles, nutritious foods, and lower body fat. Instead of spending trillions on bailouts and war, use just a little bit of that for healthcare. Add podcasting 2.0 to JRiver.
An equally important question is what do we not do?
Don't fill nursing homes with sick people that are only separated by a piece of tape on the floor. Don't take a cue from Germany in 38. Don't take a cue from the CCP. Don't put a portion of the county into gulags.
Thanks for hearing me out. I wish the best for everyone here. I will stop posting on this topic.
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Get the vaccine and get a microchip implanted that can't be purchased from eBay.
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Yeah, I don't know why Qualcomm/Mediatek/Samsung keep releasing their huge and power hungry 5G chips when we all know they can actually be built the size of a tiny grain of sand and require no battery to work.
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I don't post a lot in Interact, but this new mutant from South Africa is extremely concerning to me (I am a Ph.D. level Molecular Biologist who has worked in the past with viruses). I humbly hope that everyone will get vaccinated and boosted. Your life, your neighbor's life, our economy, and humanity might very well hang in the balance if we can't get this darn thing under control.
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It continues to amaze me that educated (college and doctorate) people still don't think they need to be vaccinated or they prefer to take snake oil (i.e. Ivermectin.) What the hell do they think has been tamping down the virus so far?
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It continues to amaze me that educated (college and doctorate) people still don't think they need to be vaccinated or they prefer to take snake oil (i.e. Ivermectin.) What the hell do they think has been tamping down the virus so far?
I know 10 people in the past two weeks that are vaccinated and have contracted COVID-19.
My mother-in-law (76 years old and not vaccinated) currently has COVID-19. Her doctor has treated over 400 patients with Ivermectin and not a single one has died or even been on a respirator. My MIL has been hospitalized for two weeks now and 40% of COVID patients at that hospital end up on the respirator. Her doctor has specialized in infectious diseases for over 40 years.
For a different perspective:
The Undeniable Ivermectin Miracle in India’s 240m Populated Largest State, Uttar Pradesh (https://newsrescue.com/the-undeniable-ivermectin-miracle-indias-240m-populated-largest-state-uttar-pradesh-horowitz/)
Ivermectin: Fact-checking the Fact-checkers (https://fcpp.org/2021/11/17/ivermectin-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers/)
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Ivermectin study site:
https://ivmmeta.com/ (https://ivmmeta.com/)
The CDC has 16 studies on their site, it's buried now and very hard to find. I can dig it out if anyone cares.
The one they talk about in the news is when they gave huge amounts to covid patient late into their battle with it and from that they try to discredit everything before and after.
I live in a fairly remote location. We have around 90 percent vaxxed and were the first in Canada to receive it. Boosters are currently being administered. It worked, we are all good and back to normal!
Just kidding. We are in a state of emergency because the vaccinated people are sick with covid. The infection rates have skyrocketed among them. They all have to wear masks in public. There are limits to how many people can be in a house. All unvaxxed have been fired or are in the process of being fired from their jobs. Passports are needed for non-essential businesses. Unvaxxed can't fly. On top of that, in my personal circle amongst the vaxxed there are heart problems, numerous heart attacks in friends parents, internal bleeding, ovary issues (god knows what is going on there, but it involves severe pain), and a friend of a friend has a severe neurological disorder. I am thankful I do not have any soccer players in my life.
This sounds like and epic failure to me. It sounds exactly like the other places on earth with high vax rates. Don't say that it would be far worse if we didn't have the shot, because this is a pointless assumption. Instead lets look at places that were not taking experimental procedures. I look to the Dutch Reform and the Mennonites. Covid passed through their communities like the flu. They are all good. Another place with very low rates is Africa. An interesting thing about Africa and also India is that they use Ivermectin as a prophylaxis. The problem with Ivermectin, the Nobel Prize winning drug, is that it is cheap. Also you cannot have emergency approval of an experimental treatment if a treatment already exists. So is there a super mutant there about to wipe out the entire planet, or is the mainstream media making a distraction for the mysterious case of Africa doing better than the highly vaccinated countries? Time will tell, I suspect sooner rather than latter.
It continues to amaze me that educated (college and doctorate) people still don't think they need to be vaccinated or they prefer to take snake oil (i.e. Ivermectin.)
Ivermectin = Nobel Prize winning drug.
Snake oil = a term used to describe deceptive marketing, health care fraud, or a scam. ie The billions spent on pharmaceutical marketing. 96 percent effective.
What do you think the hundreds of thousands of unvaxxed health care workers have seen in the last year that has dissuaded them?
What the hell do they think has been tamping down the virus so far?
It's not tampered. Evidence of this is the state of emergency i currently live in that's rife with discrimination and human rights violations. Here it is a pandemic of the vaccinated. We are far far worse off than before everyone took the shot.
The news bombards us with covid numbers but what they have not been saying is that the vaxxed have twice the death rate as unvaxxed from non covid related illness. ie heart problems. It is coming out more each day. You just have to find a news outlet that isn't supported by pharma add dollars. I believe it is on the mainstream news in England now. The number where I live are secret, well at least they have been since they stopped supporting the narrative.
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Wow!
I thought this place was reasonably rational and not affected by the lunacy of social media. Seems I was wrong.
Ivermectin is used for killing parasites in animals. That's what the creators got a Nobel prize for.
Parasites are not viruses.
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I found the Ivermectin question interesting because a significant number of the studies showed no benefit, but there were also more than a few studies that seemed to definitely show a significant benefit. That kind of split over a large numbers of studies is unusual, and I was curious about what could lead to that kind of divergence. I found the following analysis of the Ivermectin studies to be interesting (the author is a medical doctor who is also a popular blogger, so it's pretty readable but long):
https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted
The take away: there were some small trials that showed Ivermectin was helpful for COVID. Some of those had serious methodological problems, but others were methodologically sound and still showed a COVID outcome benefit for Ivermectin. But, curiously, later larger trials showed minimal or no benefit. The author notes that Ivermectin is a very effective anti-parasite drug (in humans, as well as animals) and that many of the Ivermectin trials that showed significant benefit were conducted in regions of the world that have endemic parasite/intestinal worm problems (i.e. as much as 25 to 50% of the population being infected at any given time). Having parasites can be very hard on your immune system. So his theory is the reason that Ivermectin worked well in trials in Bangladesh or rural East India was that many of the experimental subjects were also suffering from parasites that the Ivermectin cured, improving their COVID survival rates.
It's not an airtight case, but the graph of parasite prevalence compared to the study locations looks very persuasive. In any case, I thought it was an interesting read of the evidence which elegantly explained why the later, larger studies run in Western countries failed to show any significant benefit for Ivermectin.
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I thought this place was reasonably rational and not affected by the lunacy of social media. Seems I was wrong.
Turns out people with all levels of rationality like music and movies and like to use MC to enjoy them. I can't speak to the lunacy of social media, I have personally never had an account with facebook, twitter, tic toc, etc. I do however read a lot and keep up to date with mainstream "news". I also keep up with independent news. I watch a lot of interviews with doctors, nurses and scientists. I tend to trust the front line doctors and researchers more than big bird, software engineers, and companies that have been criminally charged billions of dollars.
Ivermectin is used for killing parasites in animals. That's what the creators got a Nobel prize for.
I had porridge for breakfast today, can you believe I ate horse food. Ivermectin has been around since the 60s, it is not just for animals. It is even used for rosacea. If thousands of doctors are using it successfully then it warrants the time and resources to look into it scientifically. Instead it has been part of a smear champagne by cnn and others. "People are eating horse paste".
I had dinner with a friend last night, her husband is in Japan visiting family so we discussed how Japan is doing. Turns out the US has 3 times the population as japan, but has had 40 times as many people die from Covid. Japan has approved, and uses, Ivermectin. Has Japan been corrupted by social media? Their low death rate doesn't prove Ivermectin works, but it may be correlation. It is worth looking into scientifically. Science is a methodology, it is not a religion who's priests are paid by big pharma and by the patents for the drugs they are pushing.
So instead of giving existing drugs a chance that are proven safe and effective, the pharma companies have received, and are seeking, emergency approval for untested drugs. Drugs that destroy peoples kidneys, and the latest one that is a repurposed aids treatment.
Is the new African strain called omicron? Omega would have been better. Or will it be covid 21? Convenient timing as updated vaccines and boosters are just being released. I wonder if those test results that will be released in 2076 too.
Discussion and debate are part of a healthy mind and part of a healthy society. Propaganda, outrage, and censorship are not. We should be listening to the many doctors that are successfully treating patients, not cancelling them.
It may however be time to cancel Sesame Street. If anyone is looking for a good tv show to watch try Dopesick starring Michael Keaton.
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In the facts department, your chances of being positive for Covid are currently 5x higher if you're unvaccinated, and your chances of dying from it are 13x greater.
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Straight from the NIH site, small study on Ivermectin:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/
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Straight from the NIH site, small study on Ivermectin:
That site is a library site. NIH does not endorse the research.
The study is very small. The authors state that larger studies need to be done. Far from conclusive.
Additional Information: The research was analyzed by NIH and found to be inconclusive at best.
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/tables/table-2c/
Key Limitations:
Small sample size
Unclear whether both IVM and DOX placebos were used.
Excluded patients with chronic diseases.
Disease appears to have been mild in all patients; thus, the reason for hospitalization is unclear.
Absolute changes in inflammatory markers were not presented, but were reportedly significant.
PCR results are not a validated surrogate marker for clinical efficacy.
Interpretation:
A 5-day course of IVM resulted in faster virologic clearance than placebo, but not a faster time to resolution of symptoms (fever, cough, and sore throat). Because time to virologic clearance is not a validated surrogate marker for clinical efficacy, the clinical efficacy of IVM is unknown.
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The Nebraska Attorney General's office issued a Opinion on October 15, 2021 called the Prescription of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine as Off-Label Medicines for the Prevention or Treatment of Covid-19 (https://ago.nebraska.gov/opinions/prescription-ivermectin-or-hydroxychloroquine-label-medicines-prevention-or-treatment-covid). The paper discusses the history of Ivermectin and how its antiviral properties had been studied prior to COVID-19.
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The Nebraska Attorney General's office issued a Opinion on October 15, 2021 called the Prescription of Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine as Off-Label Medicines for the Prevention or Treatment of Covid-19 (https://ago.nebraska.gov/opinions/prescription-ivermectin-or-hydroxychloroquine-label-medicines-prevention-or-treatment-covid). The paper discusses the history of Ivermectin and how its antiviral properties had been studied prior to COVID-19.
Douglas Peterson is a lawyer and Republican Attorney General of Nebraska. He was asked for guidance on whether charges should be brought against physicians for prescribing ivermectin. He concluded that according to Nebraska law, doctors had the right to write off-label presciptions. That is probably the right legal decision.
However, his "analysis" of the medical issues is incomplete and sometimes just plain wrong. It shows why lawyers, especially political lawyers, should not try to analyze medical issues. Doctors should leave legal issues to lawyers and lawyers should leave medicine to doctors.
By the way, he also seems to support using hydroxychoroquine for COVID-19 patients. Large scale studies have shown it is not effective against COVID 19.
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I am Vaccinated and getting my Booster in Dec.
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Completed my vaccinations in April, received the booster in October.