INTERACT FORUM

More => Old Versions => Media Center 11 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: nila on March 16, 2003, 07:23:25 am

Title: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: nila on March 16, 2003, 07:23:25 am
Instead of waiting for each release of MJ and then saying if we like the menu or not I figured it'd be more helpful if everyone actively says what we want the menu to look like so MJ can easily and quickly see what features and layouts etc are common to everyone without having to wait for each new release to get an idea of what people do or dont like.

Please state how you would like the menu to appear


Here's how I'd like the menu structured:


----------------------------------
Play
Add to Playing Now > (add to playing now sub menu) [note 1]
Edit Track Info > [sub menu 1]
Edit > [sub menu 2]
----------------------------------
Rating > (rating sub menu - preferably 1-10)
Playlist > (current send to/playlist) [note 2]
External Program > same menu
----------------------------------
Burn Selected Tracks
Portable Device > [note 3]
Tools > [sub menu 3]
Locate File > (current menu)
----------------------------------
File Properties
----------------------------------




Quick Search
This will be moved to either a small button next to the 'Search Wizard' button or will be entered into the wizard menu as a top level entry as it's to do with searching more than to do with the file being dealt with (what the right click should be for)


note 1
This would be one of those buttons that can either be clicked and released to simply add to playing now or can be held down to open the 'Send To/Playing Now' Menu.

note 2
This would have:
- Create New Playlist
- (the most recently used playlist - ie sticky 'send to' item
---------------------------------
- All other playlists

note 3
this would have current: CD, DVD, Handhelds menu but would ONLY show if a Device OTHER than the burner was detected. Otherwise this menu item would never appear.
MJ can only support 1 burning operation at a time so showing all burners is unecessary as a regular feature and is more appropriate to edit via the burning options window.


sub menu 1 - Edit Track Info
- edit selected properties
- get properties from filename
- get properties from yadb
- submit properties from yadb
- Update Tags > (tag sub menu)
- Cover Art > [sub menu 1.1]


sub menu 1.1 - Cover Art
- Add From File
- Quick Find in file directory (*)
- Get From Scanner
- Get From Internet
- Paste from clipboard
-------------------
- Remove
-------------------

*
checks to see if there is a cover in the same directory as the mp3 and adds it if there is one otherwise displays list of files and asks us to choose one


sub menu 2 - Edit
- Copy
- Paste
--------------------------
- Delete File
- Copy/Move File
- Rename File (*)
--------------------------
- Undo
- Redo
--------------------------
- Select All
- Invert Selection
--------------------------

*
This would bring up the current 'rename from properties' screen but also allows for the file name to be edit manually so we could type in whatever we wanted in a simple text field box.


sub menu 3 - Tools
- Find and Replace
- Clean File Properties
- Move/Copy Fields
- Fill Track numbers from List Order
--------------------------
- Analyse Audio
- Covert Format
--------------------------




I think that has all the current options listed and accounted for.
Almost all functions are now available in a single sub menu instead of having to go into sub menu inside a sub menu.
The old 'Tools' menu is more integrated into the regular options of the system to make them thought of more just as options rather than as special tools.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: cct1 on March 16, 2003, 08:13:54 am
Well, I think edit selected fields should be on the first menu that comes up instead of a submenu--it is one of the most used functions, and would hate to see it nested again--I like it the way it is now ;D.  Other than that, it looks ok.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: NoCodeUK on March 16, 2003, 10:33:14 am
Ditto cct1...apart from edit selected field not being top level it seems pretty good

Adam
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: nila on March 16, 2003, 05:30:44 pm
The reason I figured it could be in a sub menu is because when you edit a property, your using your keyboard to enter the info and so you can access it directly via F2. It is one click access (although it's keyboard access not mouse).

'Edit Track Info' however could be done like note 1 so that if you click it directly it just acts as: 'Edit Selected Field' or if you hold it down or after a 1 second delay then it opens.

Glad u like though :)

Any other comments anyone? like - dislike? both welcome as it'd really give user feedback on what everyone likes and so enable MJ to accomodate for the majority of users.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: cct1 on March 16, 2003, 06:16:06 pm
BTY, forgot to mention nice job putting that all together Nila ;D!
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: rocketsauce on March 16, 2003, 11:11:23 pm
I try to avoid using keyboard shortcuts whenever possible. :)

My only preference is that File Properties and Edit Selected Properties should be on the main menu rather than a sub-menu.

Rob
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: nila on March 17, 2003, 03:57:40 am
Thanks :)

No one else is saying if they like it/hate it etc. Not very helpful to decide if it's just us three that like it or if everyone is soooo awe struck by it that they just cant manage to post a reply :)


As for the 'Edit Selected Tracks' - I really think that the best way would be to make: 'Edit Track Info' sub menu an item that can be click-released to act as 'Edit Selected Tracks' as it would give the function without requiring an extra entry to the tree.


Also - icons to go with this tree
ie:
(X) next to delete
(little art picture) next to 'get cover art' sub folder
(little fire picture) next to 'burn tracks'
(little portable player) next to 'send to portable' sub menu

etc etc.


Also - shortcut buttons for all the functions would be soooo nice.
Possibly using Shift+? combo's for the functions to give the full range of letters available again by using shift instead of ctrl.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: Matt on March 17, 2003, 04:09:09 am
Thanks Nila.  Very well thought out.

I'm not going to say too much yet because I want to hear what other people think.  

Everyone else, is it more or less clear than what's in the latest build?  

Thanks for any feedback.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: NoCodeUK on March 17, 2003, 04:35:12 am
Matt - The latest build is better as I said in the bug thread.  It makes much more sense to me (sorry Nila) to have Edit Selected field at the top level which you have now implemented...However, I do think Nilas ideas here present things a bit more logically...Even if it does mean relearning the position of everythng again :P

Adam
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: cct1 on March 17, 2003, 05:11:12 am
Quote
Matt - The latest build is better as I said in the bug thread.  It makes much more sense to me (sorry Nila) to have Edit Selected field at the top level which you have now implemented...However, I do think Nilas ideas here present things a bit more logically...Even if it does mean relearning the position of everythng again :P

Adam


My sentiments exactly!
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: Doof on March 17, 2003, 05:18:06 am
Yeah, I could go with this, but I agree with a lot of other people here that Edit Selected Field should be top level.

I do have to wonder about the intuitiveness of a UI where clicking on something does one action, but pausing on that same option does something else, though. It's fine for those of us "in the know", but what about new users?

It's kind of like right clicking on the player controls. How many new users know about that? Or that you can double click on the time\bitrate display on the Player Window to edit the layout?
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: Doof on March 17, 2003, 05:23:25 am
Also... Shift-Del in the right click menu is really unintuitive. Wouldn't it be better to seperate it into Remove From List & Delete From Library?

Or...

Remove > From List
                     > From Library


?
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: MachineHead on March 17, 2003, 06:00:49 am
Quote
It's kind of like right clicking on the player controls. How many new users know about that? Or that you can double click on the time\bitrate display on the Player Window to edit the layout?

Knew about that, but never really mess with it. Have had it set for a long time now and see no real need to change it. But a good point. Kind of OT here, but a right click anywhere in the tree with the command 'Collapse' would be just bitchin'. Beats scrolling all the way to the top to close down a view.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: NoCodeUK on March 17, 2003, 06:04:24 am
Agree with Doof on both scores...menu needs to follow conventional Windows functionality in all respects...I cannot stand it when software does things that are a break from the norm as it can confuse the user...

Adam
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: rocketsauce on March 17, 2003, 10:16:18 am
I guess I'll chime in again.

The way the menus are now in 9.0.129 are fine. However, I think overall I preferred the old Tools menu with all the tools just divided into sections rather than in different sub-menus.

Rob
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: lee269 on March 17, 2003, 10:59:19 am
I havent used 9.0.129 as much as you guys I think, so heres some rather unfocused first thoughts on the existing menus:

1. The existing menus are a good starting point, but there are at least a couple of oddities: 'View/Navigation' (really not clear what this means until you choose it) and 'Player/More controls' (move rewind/fast forward and perhaps reshuffle to the player menu and replace more controls with volume).

2. File/Quick play: perhaps quick play should be under Player?

3. Tools/File Tools - Some of this stuff (tagging etc.) surely belongs under Edit?

4. Tools/More Tools - although they are varied, the description is not obvious. Perhaps Media Tools?

5. Tools/Send to - for me File/Send to would be more logical.

6. Final nitpicky point: although the curent menus are visually OK, I personally (as an unskinnned user) would prefer to see the menus rendered in exactly the same way as 'standard' windows menus, eg for me at least, in 3d with shadows. Basically Id like to see the standard 'window furniture' in unskinned MC conforming completely to the norm. But I can live with it as it is if necessay.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: DocLotus on March 17, 2003, 01:14:47 pm
Love the new menus especially now that I can right-click on the task bar icon to make changes without having to maximize MJ.

One thing is missing...
Since the new menus started showing up I have noticed that the font is about two sizes smaller then before. Would it be possible to add to the Customize Menu Bar screen either a font pop-up selection list or at least a choice of making the fonts larger with a Small, Med, Large choice.

I bring this up as the fonts are a little small on a high rez monitor.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: nila on March 17, 2003, 01:28:40 pm
Glad u all like it :)
Including Matt.
I agree about the trickiness of using unusual click behaviors. I was just trying to find a balance between all sins - size of menus, ease of access etc.
I guess edit selected field wouldn't change things too much though - thats why this thread is good - I always use the properties window so for me that was a never used tool. You guys obviously use it a lot :)


Thats why I thought customisable menu's were the best as it'd give users the chance to customise it to their needs but obviously this is a MUCH harder task than just designing a layout and could wait to version 10 (hint hint for v10) :)
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: Matt on March 17, 2003, 01:28:44 pm
Quote
X makes more sense under File, or Edit, or Tool...


There are a lot of things that could be under "File", "Edit" or "Tools" (i.e. cleaning file properties: you do it to a FILE, it EDITS properties, and it's a TOOL)  Not sure what's the best, but I think multiple listings are bad.

Quote
One thing is missing...
Since the new menus started showing up I have noticed that the font is about two sizes smaller then before. Would it be possible to add to the Customize Menu Bar screen either a font pop-up selection list or at least a choice of making the fonts larger with a Small, Med, Large choice.

I bring this up as the fonts are a little small on a high rez monitor.


MC uses the same font basically everywhere.  You can configure it under Options -> Tree & View -> Font


Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: nila on March 17, 2003, 01:55:03 pm
I agree about multiple listings being bad - possibly 1 or 2 important functions however could be replicated with it working for the better but I dont have any off hand. :)


Also - while your working on the menu's and toolbars:

Would it be possible to add a button to the toolbar that when clicked extended the toolbar down with a set of buttons on it to give access to all the tools/right click options so that they could be accessed via one click buttons rather than right click - a bit like explorer has toolbar icons for cut/copy/paste etc as well as having them in the right click.

By making the extra toolbar toggleable you'd give it to those that wanted without forcing it on those that wouldn't so no one would loose and everyone could gain.

For those that really didn't want it they could even remove the toggle button from the toolbar by customising it.

It'd be GREAT for tagging/tidying up loads of files and quickly doing tasks like:  Fill properties from filename, clean properties, submit to YADB etc.

Any chance of this or is it a maybe v10 feature?
Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: nila on March 19, 2003, 05:30:32 am
No one else likes my layout?? :(

Come on, you know you want it - lets hear you say it :)

It's sooo user friendly - no more sub menu's except in a RARE few cases.

ESPECIALLY having Rating >, and 'Burn Tracks' as a top level menu item.

Title: Re: Menu Layout - Structuring
Post by: JimH on March 19, 2003, 05:37:22 am
Nila,
We're in the final stages of this version.  We can't make any sweeping changes.

While we appreciate constructive criticism and suggestions, you're often over-stepping your role as a user.  We have several great software architects on staff.  We don't need more.

Often the suggestions you make would require hundreds or thousands of dollars to implement.  Do you want to write the check?  I don't.

Please try to keep your requests at a more realistic level.

Jim