INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 31 for Windows => Topic started by: audiogym65 on August 19, 2023, 02:02:35 pm
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I recently downloaded a DSD256 version of "Somethin' Else" from High Definition Tape Transfers. It came a total of 6 versions of various bit/sample rates. The DSD versions loaded fine, at the proper length. The flac versions of each of the songs are shorter than the DSF versions. I believe MC does this automatically? How can I ensure the flac files are the proper length? Screenshot shows what I described.
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Have you played the FLAC files to see if they are truly truncated? If there is an issue after all, I suppose it is an option to do the conversion with Foobar or something like that.
If there is an area in the audio section where I think JRiver is somewhat deficient it would be SACD/DSD. I have a number of areas where it can be improved. For example, ripping a SACD ISO to individual DSD/DSF tracks is problematic at best. JRiver converts to PCM then back to DSF; which is simply not a good approach. There are plenty of features I would like to see added with regard to DSD.
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When you say "shorter", do you mean that the music is cut off? Or that the file is smaller.
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The flac file versions of the songs are shorter in length.
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The flac file versions of the songs are shorter in length.
The size (in bytes) of the flac files can certainly be smaller than the dsf files. Dsf files are not compressed.
What I see that is strange is that the playing time of the flac files is shorter than the playing time of the dsf file. Hence the question above as to whether the flac files play for a shorter time than the dsf files. If the playing time is shorter than something is wrong with the conversion or the playing time tag is wrong.
Try converting a dsf file to flac with MC and see what you get.
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Those converted files are way off, and the higher the rate the shorter tracktime they are.
Is the conversion process somehow maxing out and limiting the file size? Do all the files have the same actual file size?
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I have Mozart, Violin Concertos (Thorsen, Single Track) in different downloaded demo versions from 2L:
24 Bit 352.8 kHz
24 Bit 192 kHz
24 Bit 96 kHz
16 Bit 44.1 kHz
1 Bit DSD 64
Duration is for all files the same 9:14 min.
File size is different 47.8 to 724 MB.
So if you convert files by your self using MC conversion tools and duration is different something is done by MC. It shouldn't.
File size should be different!
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Are the flac files all the same sample rate? It looks like the flac file sizes are pretty much the same for each of the flac conversions - Autumn Leaves gives 2701, 2604, 2523 MB. That would make me think the conversion was done to the same sample rate but the playing times tag is off. Just speculating.
I like that album a lot. For comparison, my 44.1KHz CD rip of Autumn Leaves is 74.4 MB, so your PCM files may not be compressed. At 356 Mhz, that would correspond to something like 600 MB (356/44.1*74.4) which is must less than your size.
I would use MC to convert one of the dsf files to flac and see if that works.
I would ask High Definition Tape Transfers why the playing times are different and what the flac compression factor is.
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I suspect the source FLAC files were unintentionally truncated by the distributor (High Definition Tape Transfers).
You should try them with other players and see what they show for duration on those tracks. Listening to them would be a good idea too.
Brian.
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Have you played the FLAC files to see if they are truly truncated? If there is an issue after all, I suppose it is an option to do the conversion with Foobar or something like that.
If there is an area in the audio section where I think JRiver is somewhat deficient it would be SACD/DSD. I have a number of areas where it can be improved. For example, ripping a SACD ISO to individual DSD/DSF tracks is problematic at best. JRiver converts to PCM then back to DSF; which is simply not a good approach. There are plenty of features I would like to see added with regard to DSD.
Use ISO2DSD (java app). No intermediate PCM stage. straight rip from SACD ISO (unencrypted of course)
https://www.sonore.us/iso2dsd.html (https://www.sonore.us/iso2dsd.html)
Note - if you have the right SACD player with the right chipset, and the right software on a USB stick, you can rip to ISO, DSF, or DSD. Seems Mediatek (chipset) had a backdoor of sorts...
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For the subject of SACD ripping, Audiophile Style is a good place to start.
ISO2DVD is the best for direct extraction that I have used. But does it handle DSD to FLAC which is the direct issue here?
I liked the idea expressed above of checking out the source files; they may be problematic.
Frankly, I hope others express to JRiver that they would like to see some love for SACD/DSD. There is quite a bit that could be done that would be awesome. How about combining individual DSF files to create your own mix ISO (SACD) (with DST if possible since it saves space)?
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ISO2DVD is the best for direct extraction that I have used. But does it handle DSD to FLAC which is the direct issue here?
Typo? ISO2DSD is a GUI for SACD_extract.exe, the program that does the work. They will not handle DSD to FLAC.
FWIW, there is a newer, better, easier to use replacement for it: SACDExtractGUI. It will not convert DSD to FLAC, either.
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Typo? ISO2DSD is a GUI for SACD_extract.exe, the program that does the work. They will not handle DSD to FLAC.
FWIW, there is a newer, better, easier to use replacement for it: SACDExtractGUI. It will not convert DSD to FLAC, either.
This is what I use on my mac to rip from a BD Player. Works well.
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Yes, I use sacd_extract via the command line/terminal and it works fine there too.
I'm also in agreement with what was said here, sounds like the company is providing broken/incomplete downloads. Might want to inform them of such.
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My durations converting to ALAC are the same or within a second.
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Thank you all for your help. I did some more investigating into the issue, and learned it was related to my BluOS controller and how it handles DSD. It give me an option to convert these DSF files, for playback on my Node 2i, into 24bit FLAC files. What confused me was their song length in MC31. I disabled the setting in BluOS, refreshed MC31, and they disappeared. I enabled DSD once again, and the FLAC files are showing the correct song length in the BluOS app, for 2 of the 3 DSD albums. I do not know where these new FLAC files are stored, but it is clearly not a MC31 issue. User error, lack of understanding on my part.
I have attached a screenshot of the setting from the desktop BluOS app.
Once again, thank you all for your help.
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BluOS advertises DSD capability, which is not really true. It supports PCM, and includes a utility that converts DSD files to PCM. I never turned on that feature on my Node as it seems pretty weak. Plus I think you need to be careful as one setting option replaces the DSD with PCM and flushes the DSD away. At least I remember the menu offering something like that.
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Typo? ISO2DSD is a GUI for SACD_extract.exe, the program that does the work. They will not handle DSD to FLAC.
FWIW, there is a newer, better, easier to use replacement for it: SACDExtractGUI. It will not convert DSD to FLAC, either.
thanks for the note on the replacement - will check it out! Still purchase SACDs :) Viva la DSD! Although there is a lot of good music now available as DSD download too..