INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 31 for Windows => Topic started by: JimH on November 27, 2023, 01:15:29 pm
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We could use your help in learning about the causes of recent problems with hesitation in both video and audio. If you have anything you can add, please do so.
manni did a good job of summarizing his problems and solutions here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,137375.msg953465.html#msg953465
There are a few other similar reports.
I believe the main causes are an NVIDIA driver update and a Windows 11 update *.
In the case of Windows 11, at least one user reported that the problem was
I know there is an NVIDIA driver problem. It's possibly related to power saving mode. Some people have solved the problem by installing the older 531.79 driver (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,137375.msg952589.html#msg952589).
There's a Windows 11 update that caused the problem and another that fixed it. Details for users ...
Audio is also pausing for some.
They may all be related to HDMI.
* EDIT: There are some known problems with periodic high CPU usage in the Windows Widgets program. You can see it as widgets.exe in Task Manager. Try a Google search for more. The timing of the problem reports fits with the first unwelcome appearance of widgets on my Win11 laptop machine.
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Here's a reddit thread on similar audio problems (and some solutions).
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/12d7aex/audio_stuttering_fixed_on_new_windows_11_build/
This was interesting:
"Ran through all those steps above on my own, no dice. Found this and just turned to 24bit/192000hz. Bang, no stutter. Thank you for the tip!
For posterity, the specs - note the one similarity.
CPU: AMD 7800X3D
Motherboard: ASRock B650E Taichi
GPU: Nvidia 3080Ti
Audio: SMSL Q5 Pro DAC connected to motherboard via optical"
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Hendrik announced that MC31 fixed a bug which prevented bitstreaming over DirectSound, so I happily upgraded as I wanted this feature for compatibility with a pre-movie sequence. It works but I get an audio dropout (and sometimes a visual pause/glitch) every ~ 20 minutes. Replicated the issue on TWO different machines. One W10 with integrated intel gfx, and one running W7 and an AMD gfx card. Both connected via HDMI to a Denon AVR. Behavior on both machines are identical.
Dropouts do NOT occur (on either machine) when using WASAPI, and they do NOT occur when using Zoom Player (configured the same settings in MadVR/LAV).
I get no other dropped or repeated frames.
As per an earlier thread, I emailed log files from each machine to Hendrik but have not heard back yet.
Thanks.
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One user solved it for video with NVIDIA power management settings.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,137375.50.html
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Thanks, Jim. But, niether of my machines tested use NVIDIA. I have no power management enabled, both machines are exclusively configured for use as an HTPC.
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Why don't you use WASAPI?
Is this only madVR? Did you try JRVR?
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Yes the exact same dropouts occur when using JRVR.
I use DirectSound because I have a pre-movie sequence that I run before the main feature starts. WASAPI requires "exclusive mode" which locks the audio stream while the queued-up movie is waiting. Before Hendrik "fixed" DirectSound bitstreaming, I tried many different solutions but find that WASAPI won't work in my application, requiring DirectSound.
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WASAPI shouldn't require Exclusive Mode.
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"power users":
I've been using the NVCleanstall utility to trim back about 135Mb of cruft, advertising, and telemetry from the standard Nvidia driver. The only things I leave in are the video driver itself, the HD Audio driver, and the Optimus driver because I have notebooks as well as the desktop systems to support. I don't game so going a minimalist route for this driver package works for me.
Depending on the revision level of the driver you're modding, there are advanced/experimental options that let you shut off/disable most of the default NVidia power saving/throttling options INCLUDING the Nvidia HD Audio device sleep timer. See attached screenshot.
Have a look at your Windows power plans, there are deep settings for USB selective suspend (power off) and PCI power management, both of which I disable.
And...... if you have Samsung NVMe storage devices, try downgrading the driver from the Samsung (current revision 3.3) NVMe driver to the factory stock Microsoft NVMe driver that is included with Windows. There are long-standing threads on reddit and other boards indicating that while the Samsung driver gives some slight increase in write speeds, there can be stability problems along with reduced read speeds.
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WASAPI shouldn't require Exclusive Mode.
Try it yourself, and Hendrik confirmed: Media Center will NOT bitstream (throws an error) if WASAPI selected wihtout "exclusive" mode checked. In Hendrik's own words on Doom9: WASAPI in shared mode is rather cursed. Its not that helpful. For WASAPI you should always want to use Exclusive.
Also, see attached from Awesome Donkey
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Depending on the revision level of the driver you're modding, there are advanced/experimental options that let you shut off/disable most of the default NVidia power saving/throttling options INCLUDING the Nvidia HD Audio device sleep timer. See attached screenshot.
Brilliant! Although strangely NVCleanInstall didn't fix the audio sleep. I even made the changes in this thread to do it manually with the correct registry values: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/c72pg0/comment/euw81ma/?context=3
EDIT: The first time I play a sound it crackles at the beginning, but seems fine afterwards, after applying the registry tweak. So maybe the audio doesn't "sleep" anymore? Will have to do more testing later....
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I'm getting audio dropouts on one of my client computers using an AMD Radeon RX 6400. No video dropouts, only audio for about 1 second every 5-20 minutes at random.
This occurs on any video media: 4K, HD, SD, Atmos, Dolby, DTS. But not PCM.
I have two clients and one server.
All are on Media Center 31.0.87.
All are on Windows 11 23H2 with all current updates.
Defender exclusions are in place and have been for years.
Both clients have an AMD Radeon RX 6400 with driver version 23.5.2.
Both use JRVR with modest settings.
Both are configured for bitstreaming.
Both are using WASAPI.
System 1:
In use for 4 years, connected to a 4K oled through a 4K HDMI 2.1 AVR.
No problems at all. No dropouts. Plays 4K HDR video with Atmos, DTS-X, etc. just fine. Anything I throw at it from SD to UHD looks great.
System 2:
In use for 8 years, connected to a 1080p plasma through an HD HDMI 1.3 AVR.
No problems until about 1 year ago. Occasional audio dropouts.
August 2022 I added the AMD Radeon RX 6400 to both systems in order to handle 4K HDR media.
System 1 previously had a Geforce GT 1030 which could no longer handle 4K on JRVR, it previously did 4K using MadVR with very low settings. No problems with System 1 (the 4K system) after adding the 6400.
System 2 previously had onboard Intel HD Graphics 630 which was ok for HD and SD but not 4K. This was the primary system for many years, but System 1 (4K system) has been primary for the past 2 years. Even though System 2 is connected to a 1080p display, I wanted to be able to downscale and tonemap 4K video to it. It seems to work fine except for the occasional audio dropout every 5-20 minutes.
Due to sparse use of System 2 after building System 1 (the 4K system), I did not notice problems right away with System 2 after adding the Radeon and do not remember when audio dropouts started, but it has been at least 6 months, maybe 1 year. So I'm not sure if they started after upgrading to Media Center 31 or not.
If you have any suggestions on troubleshooting please let me know.
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...
All are on Media Center 31.0.87.
All are on Windows 11 23H2 with all current updates.
Defender exclusions are in place and have been for years.
Both clients have an AMD Radeon RX 6400 with driver version 23.5.2.
Both use JRVR with modest settings.
Both are configured for bitstreaming.
...
If you have any suggestions on troubleshooting please let me know.
What happens if you disable Taskbar Widgets?
Go to Settings->Personalization->Taskbar. Then turn off Widgets in the Taskbar Items list.
A couple of days ago I had a big dropout while playing a movie (30 framedrops) and I brought up Task Manager right away and it just happened that the Widgets.exe was using 100% of 2 cores - redlined them for 20 seconds! It may have been a coincidence - but after disabling Widgets I haven't seen a massive framedrop since (8 hours of movie playback).
This should cause Widgets.exe to know longer show up in Task Manager. There may also be a WidgetsService.exe or whatever it is called.
Another way is to use Group Policy Editor: https://www.elevenforum.com/t/enable-or-disable-widgets-feature-in-windows-11.1196/
I used the latter, just in case Microsoft decides to Re-enable the toggle switch in the Settings (they've been known to do that).
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What happens if you disable Taskbar Widgets?
That was already disabled.
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That was already disabled.
Can you double check in Task Manager that Widgets.exe and WidgetsService (it may be called something else) is absent? Just in case it leaves something in the background. I updated my post to link to add Group Policy method after you posted yours BTW.
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rpro,
Thanks for the nice detective work.
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Can you double check in Task Manager that Widgets.exe and WidgetsService (it may be called something else) is absent? Just in case it leaves something in the background. I updated my post to link to add Group Policy method after you posted yours BTW.
Widgets.exe is not active. WidgetsService.exe is active.
Monitoring shows no CPU spikes when the audio dropouts occur.
Attached is a Media Center log during one dropout.
I'll try more things tomorrow.
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I added some logging to any error conditions in the WASAPI output a while ago (eg. buffer underruns, things like that), but nothing of that shows up in the logs. I could possibly explain video frame drops and have ideas for that, but those audio drop-outs are not something that anything in our system is even measuring.
If we could at least get a handle on when it happens on the software side maybe we could analyze it better - but just the receiver having a drop-out with the software not knowing about it is really not helpful.
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I added some logging to any error conditions in the WASAPI output a while ago (eg. buffer underruns, things like that), but nothing of that shows up in the logs. I could possibly explain video frame drops and have ideas for that, but those audio drop-outs are not something that anything in our system is even measuring.
If we could at least get a handle on when it happens on the software side maybe we could analyze it better - but just the receiver having a drop-out with the software not knowing about it is really not helpful.
Hendrik, I sent you two logs - were you able to review them? Reminder mine is using DirectSound not WASAPI.
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Upgraded Radeon drivers to 23.11.1 but that did not help. Had previously stayed on 23.5.2 because newer versions broke Atmos and DTS-X, but that has been fixed.
Tried back to version 30.0.15 the problem exists there too.
Strange that it's only on this one system, both my clients have identical graphics cards. The difference is the connected AVR and TV.
I just turn off bitstreaming for normal use. Not sure what else to test for, but might think of something. Maybe reinstall the OS or try Windows 10.
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manni reported improvements after Windows update:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136525.msg954273.html#msg954273
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Hi Jim,
I'm currently running MC31.0.87 under the latest Win11 release (23H2) and have no issues playing Audio from it. I run an Nvidia GeForce GT 1030 Fanless video card, but my output for audio is a USB2.0 interface to an SMSL PO100 Pro DDC to convert to S/PDIF. I use WASAPI in Bit-perfect output with only Volume Leveling implemented.
My thoughts around the issues being reported are that Windows can be very latency intensive and that can have an impact on playback. I use LatencyMon to measure the latency in my platform (see attached) and I have done a fair amount of tweaking to reduce the latency down to a level conducive to 'real-time audio playback'. I would suggest that those reporting issues with 'pauses and dropouts' look at their platform as I don't believe this is an issue exclusive to JRiver MC.
My 2 cents for what it is no longer worth much.
Doug
PS: for those interested in my personal journey, please follow this link:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/windows-based-media-server-experiences-insights.1041783/
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Good observation, Doug. In my particular case the audio dropouts are only present during playback from JRiver when bitstreaming over DirectSound. Using Zoom Player or MPC-BE with the same configuration (MadVR / LAV / Bitstreaming over DirectSound) there are NO dropouts.
I have tested this using two completely different machines, one W7 and one W10.
Really hope I can solve this.
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Got it HTNut! Now that you brought up DirectSound (and I re-read this whole thread ;) ), I seem to recall that I had an issue using 'Kernel Mode' drivers. I attrbuted it to my journey with Win11 Latency.
Now that I have my latency under control, I will go back and try that and report back for JimH & team.
And Thanks Newsposter, didn't know about this issue:
And...... if you have Samsung NVMe storage devices, try downgrading the driver from the Samsung (current revision 3.3) NVMe driver to the factory stock Microsoft NVMe driver that is included with Windows. There are long-standing threads on reddit and other boards indicating that while the Samsung driver gives some slight increase in write speeds, there can be stability problems along with reduced read speeds.
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Spent a couple hours last night trying out DirectSound, WASAPI, Kernel Streaming (KS) & ASIO on my platform for Audio only. I don't use JRiver for Video (sorry Kodi for me). Bottomline, I had NO dropouts or skips for the entire session in any of the modes. My latency did not change much if at all. Still maintained 'real-time audio' capability.
Of course DirectSound is not considered 'bit-streaming or bit perfect', but it sounded fine. However, when it came to a comparison of WASAPI, KS & ASIO, I found KS to be a bit glaring & bright (grain?). KS did not drop out like I previously experienced, and I attribute this to getting my latency under control. WASAPI sounded a bit smoother and more open. And I actually preferred the dedicated ASIO capability of the XMOS Driver. There are discussions from some that since ASIO bypassess the Win-Stack to work through the driver, it can be a bit different in SQ. I found that to be true and have switched from WASAPI to the XMOS ASIO driver. YMMV!
So HTNut, I am going to suggest you load up LatencyMon from Resplendence and post what you are seeing for latency. I'm fairly confident there isn't an issue in MC that impacts audio. Audio synched to Video, perhaps. But I believe you should start with assessing your latency and see what that looks like. There are many on here that can help you with tweeking if you find your system isn't responding properly.
Here's the link:
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
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So HTNut, I am going to suggest you load up LatencyMon from Resplendence and post what you are seeing for latency. I'm fairly confident there isn't an issue in MC that impacts audio. Audio synched to Video, perhaps. But I believe you should start with assessing your latency and see what that looks like. There are many on here that can help you with tweeking if you find your system isn't responding properly.
Here's the link:
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
Thank you very much for directing me to this tool. It's very interesting.
I loaded it up and watched a movie last night, but it was completely stable when the audio would dropout every ~ 20 minutes. Here's a screenshot (sorry it's a lousy iphone photo, I was tired and lazy). This was taken just a minute after the dropout occurred, and the "current" readings didn't change during the dropout (I think the highest occurred as the move loaded and began playing)
It says:
Was running for 24 minutes
"system appears suitable"
"current" Interrupt to process 152.6
"highest" " " 932.4
Highest ISR 74.08
Highest DPC 644.07
pagefault count: 4950
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Well HTNut, your latency doesn't look that bad. Not as responsive as I have configured at this point, but I've done a ton of tweeking and yours seems fine. The only thing I scratch my head about a bit is it looks like the Kernel Framework Driver is listed for ISR & DPC, but I'm not sure that's a real issue.
So your drop out lasts for how long? A second or two, or longer?
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Dropouts are just one second, maybe less than one second. Sometimes accompanied by a slight visual glitch(maybe a single dropped frame) but not always.
Other than these ~every 20 minute dropouts, I don't have any dropped or repeated frames. Playback is perfect otherwise.
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Ok, this definitly sounds like a latency issue in processing. So, let's start with your CPU Core setup and we'll start in the BIOS. Make sure the following is set in the BIOS, reboot and then do another LatencyMon session and report back.
- Disable anything that has to do with virtualization. Virtualization has made it into client OS’s for development and also to support VDI, but it has no place on an Audio Visual Platform.
So, be sure to disable Intel Virtualization support including Intel VT-D within the BIOS. - Also disable Hyper-threading, your CPU cores should only be processing a single thread and shouldn’t be ‘switching’ to attempt multi-processing.
- I disabled Intel Speed Shift Technology to allow the OS to control P-States. And I also disabled Intel Turbo-Boost Technology so that the CPU maintains its frequency of processing. My position is that you want a very stable platform for processing a digital stream and don’t want the CPU cores to fluctuate with power/speed.
- The final piece of the puzzle in the BIOS for me was to disable the C-States so that the CPU cannot control any of the core power settings.
Let us know what you find out.
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One other question for you HTNut, I assume your interface is via HDMI exclusively (not S/PDIF)? HDMI carries both Audio and Video signal and is responsible for maintaining the synch. It would make sense that when you have an audio drop you have a video stutter.
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One other question for you HTNut, I assume your interface is via HDMI exclusively (not S/PDIF)? HDMI carries both Audio and Video signal and is responsible for maintaining the synch. It would make sense that when you have an audio drop you have a video stutter.
Yes HDMI. I feel like there's not always a video glitch, and definitely some part of the audio is missed. If someone is speaking there is a word or two missed. So, it's like the stream is continuing but cut out.
I implemented the BIOS changes you suggested, no change. I’m halfway through a movie and encountered 3 dropouts.
I found VT-D and hyper-threading but do not find “speed shift” or turbo boost in my bios.
Remember I have an older machine running W7and with discrete graphics that exhibits the exact same behavior (no issues bitstreaming over DirectSound in Zoom Player but the exact same dropouts under MC31).
I have a miniPC sitting around. I might do a fresh install of W10and install nothing but MC31…see what happens… possibly something else I installed on both of my HTPC’s could be conflicting with MC.
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No change in your LatencyMon output?
If you compare your screenshot above with mine, you have a higher level of DPC in the Kernel Framework and I'd like to see if we can work that down. Not that it will solve the problem.
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OK, so let's get a bit deeper into the OS Tweeks that hopefully will lower your ISR/DPC latency. Attached is a really good starting point guide to configuring Windows to deal with real-time audio. It only really scratches the surface, but it's a good starting point. (JimH & Team, you might want to throw a copy of this up on your site for reference)
The first few chapters just detail how Windows works and why we have issues using it for Audio/Video processing. Chapter 4 is where they start to get into some of the basic tweeks to implement. Go through this and let us know how it goes.
Again, benchmarks of LatencyMon will tell us if we're making progress so include those in your reports.
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Hey HTNut, I just had another thought. What is your buffer set to under the DirectSound device settings in MC31 (See attached)? I'm thinking the default is 25ms, but in the ASIO Driver settings I use, it is set to 50ms.
You might want to bump up the buffer and see if that solves the issue.
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Hey HTNut, I just had another thought. What is your buffer set to under the DirectSound device settings in MC31 (See attached)? I'm thinking the default is 25ms, but in the ASIO Driver settings I use, it is set to 50ms.
You might want to bump up the buffer and see if that solves the issue.
Doug, first I want to thank you so much for the time exchanging ideas and providing these great suggestions.
The buffers setting in MC31 I did previously experiment with both setting it very high and very low. No difference in what I’m experiencing.
I went back through your email and combed through my BIOS menus and I did find Turbo Boost and now turned it off. I’m going to read the Glitch Free document and run another movie tomorrow to see what the LatencyMon readings are.
Thanks again, you’ve provided me new optimism!
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The BIOS tweaks did improve the DPC latency.
But sadly, the dropouts occur just the same.
All of the Ch 4 Glitch Free suggestions were already set properly from my original install.
Attached is the LatencyMon output after the movie ended.
Things I haven’t tried are a virgin W10 install with noting but MC31; and using a different Amp.
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Theres still a few things we can try;
Make sure you are running in 'Ultimate Performance Mode':
https://elluminetpress.com/2023/08/ultimate-performance-power-plan-in-windows-11/#:~:text=To%20use%20the%20Ultimate%20Performance,it%20to%20activate%20the%20plan.
Download Power Settings Explorer:
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-power-plan-settings-explorer-utility.416058/
'Unhide' the following and set them in the Power Plan.
Core Parking - off
Processor idle promote/demote treshold - 100%
Processor performance core parking min cores - 100%
Turn off Core Isolation:
https://www.makeuseof.com/core-isolation-memory-integrity-windows/
Disable the Dynamic Tick using this CMD:
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
https://www.xbitlabs.com/how-to-get-better-latency-in-windows/
Let us know how it goes... and post that LatencyMon benchmark! ;)
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manni reported improvements after Windows update:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136525.msg954273.html#msg954273
Hi all,
Sorry I've only found this thread now.
I've reported since that the long video+audio freeze was back, so the Windows update "improvement" was just a coincidence.
I've also tried both older (532.03) and latest drivers, the issue is the same.
I've also recently started using a DP 1.4 to HDMI 2.1 adapter to resolve the black screen issue in 4K24 10/12 bits with recent drivers when using an HDMI 2.0 input on an AVR with a HDMI 2.1 GPU (3090 in my case) and the long freeze/drop is still there.
I always disable widgets, so not the cause.
I'll try to go through a few of the tips in this thread and I'll report back if anything helps.
I should stress that as far as I'm concerned (and unlike @HTNUT) I have similar issues with MPC-BE, so it's likely a system/driver issue rather than a JRiver issue per se.
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Theres still a few things we can try;
Make sure you are running in 'Ultimate Performance Mode':
https://elluminetpress.com/2023/08/ultimate-performance-power-plan-in-windows-11/#:~:text=To%20use%20the%20Ultimate%20Performance,it%20to%20activate%20the%20plan.
Download Power Settings Explorer:
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-power-plan-settings-explorer-utility.416058/
'Unhide' the following and set them in the Power Plan.
Core Parking - off
Processor idle promote/demote treshold - 100%
Processor performance core parking min cores - 100%
Turn off Core Isolation:
https://www.makeuseof.com/core-isolation-memory-integrity-windows/
Disable the Dynamic Tick using this CMD:
bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes
https://www.xbitlabs.com/how-to-get-better-latency-in-windows/
Let us know how it goes... and post that LatencyMon benchmark! ;)
Most excellent, I had no idea there were so many "hidden" power options. I implemented all of your tips except "Core Isolation", my system says this feature isn't implemented.
Sadly, I still encounter the same dropouts. Attached is the new LatencyMon screenshot shortly after the dropout.
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Well, your latency is looking better, but that doesn't appear to be the issue.
I think Manni may have it right that it could be a driver issue. What are you using for your Video processing? Is it integrated or a dedicated GPU? If you are using NVidia, have you tried working with the video driver?
I have used NVSlimmer to slim down my video driver, but again, I use Kodi and I use WASAPI as my HDMI interface protocol. So what you are experiencing is not something I've seen.
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I think Manni may have it right that it could be a driver issue. What are you using for your Video processing? Is it integrated or a dedicated GPU? If you are using NVidia, have you tried working with the video driver?
I'm suspicious that something is broken in how a newer NVIDIA driver handles power. A Google search might turn up something.
Backing down from the latest driver worked for someone.
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Two machines exhibit the exact same issue. The machine I’ve been using for these LatencyMon tests is Intel integrated graphics (i3 with Intel Iris) and running W10.
The other machine has a discrete AMD Radeon HD 6450, and is running W7.
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I was determined to fix this over the holidays and after a series of methodical in-depth tests, the "long pause/freeze for audio/video" issue is fixed for me :)
It never was specific to JRiver, and I only experienced it with my PCs, not with my Dune or Oppo Clone.
Also, there was no issue with the same movie played locally on an SSD, which seemed to point to a system or network issue.
But as I had the issue both with my HTPC (5950X & 3090) and my laptop (Dell XPS 17 with 1080ti in EGPU), I initially thought that the issue might be related to my UnRAID servers.
Also, I had the issue with one UnRAID server, but not the other, playing the same file (I used Watchmen Ultimate Edition 4K UHD Bluray, which is almost 4 hours long, to rule out false negatives as it can take up to two hours for the freeze to happen in my case).
So I tried to replace the network drivers on the Unraid server (as recent default Realtek drivers are known to cause issues), I even tried to replace the Ethernet adapter in that server with a new Intel adapter that has no driver issue, but I was still getting the freeze.
After getting a fail from my backup server (not Unraid, a Synology 2411+), I finally considered that the only thing I had not tested was a clean install on the PC or laptop, and as I currently use the HTPC as my main mediaplayer, I started with that one.
Bingo. A clean install on a USB drive with Windows 10 Pro x64 22H2 or Windows 11 Pro x64 23H2 got rid of the issue. I had not installed any driver, except the GPU (532.03). All the drivers were default windows drivers, no mobo drivers/utils installed.
I then tried to delete all the network related utils or drivers from the HTPC existing install (as a desperate attempt to avoid a full reinstall of the system SSD), but I still got the issue.
So I resolved to reinstall the HTPC system from scratch with Windows 10 on the system SSD, including Norton 360 and dropbox, but still excluding drivers. I installed all my multimedia software (JRiver MC31, CMC, MCE controller) and until now, with this fresh install, no issues. I watched a few long films (Spartacus, The 10 Commandments, Giant, Schindler's List, 2012) and never got more than 1 video frame drop per hour, which is the best I was ever to get with HDMI bitstream and is barely noticeable half the time.
So far, so good, I'm taking system images of my reinstall at regular stages. I'm not sure I'll be able to isolate what caused the issue, but if it comes back I want to be able to go back to the last known good image. The culprit must be the same that corrupted my Dell laptop, but that's my main work PC so I'm not keen to reinstall everything as I rarely watch a film on it, only occasional TV series when I'm on the go.
If I nail the culprit at some point (I still have to reinstall Steam and games as this is also a gaming PC, as well as Adobe CC as it's an Editing PC, and I also plan to attempt an upgrade to Windows 11 as a final stage), I'll update this thread, but I just wanted to suggest a full reinstall, even if only on a USB drive using Rufus, and even if you have the same issue on two different PCs, as was the case for me.
It's painfull to reinstall everything if you don't have a working image somewhere, but it's still if not a solution, at least a diagnostic tool to rule out a botch install for unknown reasons. I can certainly confirm that, as I suggested, at least in my case it wasn't a JRiver issue.
I'm still not sure why whatever hosed the system only had an issue with one Unraid server and not the other (playing the same 1:1 UHD Bluray rip of Watchmen) and managed to hose both my HTPC and my laptop, which misled me into not trying a clean install earlier), but at least it's gone now.
Happy holidays everyone, I'm off to watch some films that have been waiting until this issue was resolved!
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Nice detective work.
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Great job Manni! Way to go the extra mile! ;)
HTNut, try a clean install and let us know how it goes!
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Thanks, Manni.
I have an unused PC here that I intend to try a similar approach: do a virgin W10 install with nothing but MC31. Will try to get to that before the weekend.
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I'll also try a clean reinstall when I find some time. Mine only drops audio for half a second every 20 minutes or so. AMD GPU with latest drivers (tried lots of older drivers too). Doesn't matter if the file is over the network or local on the SSD or an external USB drive. This PC is dedicated to MC for nearly 9 years and never had a problem with MadVR. Because this is connected to a non-Atmos AVR I just leave bitstreaming turned off to get around the problem.
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Wiped drive and reinstalled Windows and Media Center. No change.
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Ashfall,
Have you been through the Weird Problems thread?
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,24031.350.html
Start on the last page and work your way back.
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I noticed there was a MC31 update installed today when i rebooted. I just tried listening to a playlist of audio songs. The stuttering appears to be gone (ie fixed). However, Song 7 and 14 sound froze for a significant time while song 19 played sound to the end but the graphics froze half way through.
I also tried watching a movie. It started to stutter at about 45 minutes onwards, as it had done before the update.
At least music is listenable now without stuttering but with long freezes.
The version of MC31 i have installed is 31.0.87 (64 bit)
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Great job Manni! Way to go the extra mile! ;)
HTNut, try a clean install and let us know how it goes!
Clean W10 install on an older PC with an AMD gfx card. I allowed windows to perform all updtaes, turned off all power savings modes, installed MC31, set only DirectSound audio device and bitstreaming to HDMI.
Same exact issue. Audio dropout roughly every 20 minutes. Like my other machines, no other dropped frames or glitches of any kind. UGH.
The only variable I haven’t tried is a different amp. I have an older Marantz I will wire up and see what happens.
With now three different sets of hardware exhibiting these dropouts I am amazed that nobody else can or has replicated my specific issue.
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NVIDIA?
Check power settings in Windows and in NVIDIA.
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No. Jim, I’ve tried three machines. Two AMD and one integrated Intel (Iris). One machine under Win7 even. Same issue.
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Htnut, do you have enabled "hardware accelerate video decoding when possible"? After I did a clean install I noticed that is not enabled by default. Played one 1080p video for 45 minutes with no dropouts, then enabled it (because 4k videos drop video frames without it on my RX6400) and then get the audio dropouts like you again. Haven't had time to change it back and try again though, so just curious what you are using. This is such a slooooow process to troubleshoot!
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No. Jim, I’ve tried three machines. Two AMD and one integrated Intel (Iris). One machine under Win7 even. Same issue.
Still consider power settings.
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Htnut, do you have enabled "hardware accelerate video decoding when possible"? After I did a clean install I noticed that is not enabled by default. Played one 1080p video for 45 minutes with no dropouts, then enabled it (because 4k videos drop video frames without it on my RX6400) and then get the audio dropouts like you again. Haven't had time to change it back and try again though, so just curious what you are using. This is such a slooooow process to troubleshoot!
Yes, "hw accelerate" is enabled.
Are you also using DirectSound + Bistream: HDMI? When I use WASAPI the audio dropout doesn't occur... but I need to use DirectSound for other reasons. Can you run a blu ray with DTS-HD or ATMOS using the DirectSound device and see if you don't get dropouts every ~ 20 minutes?
Thanks.
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Yes, "hw accelerate" is enabled.
Are you also using DirectSound + Bistream: HDMI? When I use WASAPI the audio dropout doesn't occur... but I need to use DirectSound for other reasons. Can you run a blu ray with DTS-HD or ATMOS using the DirectSound device and see if you don't get dropouts every ~ 20 minutes?
Thanks.
I'm using WASAPI. I'll try your suggestion, it might be a couple days.
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spoke too soon... audio stuttering still very much there !
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If it's occasional (comes and goes), something is changing somewhere. Power is fluctuating, for example. Something going into a low power state? Or different media triggers it.
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I'm using WASAPI. I'll try your suggestion, it might be a couple days.
Thanks, Ashfall - will be interesting to know how that works on your system. FYI, I also tried with HW Acceleration off. No change.
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I have similar problems sending through a Rotel RSP1570 (HDMI 1.4a) to a Panasonic Plasma FHD.
The only thing that does this is JRiver. PowerDVD works, my hardware Panasonic Bluray players s work, the Set top box works, and JRiver has been working for years,
Until the last 6 months or so, and it is getting worse. Perhaps JRiver is moving on to HDMI 2.0 and above and dropping support for 1.4a??
At first is was only when playing 4k 10bit material, (the plasma does 10bit) but now appears to apply to almost everything.
I have tried both Dell and Intel Motherboards, and several RX 550 cards and several DP to HDMI cables where there is no HDMI on the Video card.
Tried several ATI / AMD drivers. I am pretty sure there is a problem between the AMD HD Audio device and JRiver.
Some times when in the advanced sound panel in widows, the ROTEL device disappears, which I have never seen before, and perhaps points at the now 15 or more years old Rotel.
It takes a few seconds for PowerDVD to get the sound going, so perhaps it is negotiating the channel??
Occasionally the JRiver does actually work.
This is probably not a common problem, so may not be a priority. Running W10 Pro I5. Will need help if any one wants traces etc.
Upgrading the Rotel would be a drag since everything else appears to play fine to it..?? Both WASAPI and DIRECTSOUND lockup after a few seconds of jerky video.
Suggestions welcome of course. Thanks
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Found a fix for me that is working for today (been here before I think)
I ran the AMD cleanup utility to remove all the AMD video and sound stuff.
Let windows update install an old AMD driver, it picked one from 2022 that has no adrenaline control system
Driver Date 2/08/22 (in Australia that would be 2nd August, and different in the USA...)
Driver Version 31.0.12020.1
whatever the version means.
AMD High Definition Audio Device was missing.
Checked optional updates, and ther was an AMD audio package of some sort.
Installed that and suddenly we now have an AMD High Definition Audio Device.
Also, cleared the library.
Videos now working perfectly.
(have not reloaded the library yet)
After tuning all the Digital TV channels again, that is now working perfectly as well.
Hope this helps
So, to sum up, it may be that more recent AMD software is at least part of the problem.
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If you're going to do clean GPU driver reinstalls, I'd highly recommend using Display Driver Uninstaller (https://www.wagnardsoft.com/display-driver-uninstaller-ddu-) (DDU) instead of the AMD cleanup utility (or any GPU vendor's cleanup/reinstall tools as DDU is superior to all of them). Case and point, AMD's drivers currently disable the ability to do any sort of clean install/factory reset due to it being known to break systems, so I wouldn't trust any tool they have to offer to "cleanup" drivers as surely it's going to leave behind stuff. DDU on the other hand works perfectly regardless if you're using a Nvidia, AMD or Intel GPU and it's updated constantly and it can even remove audio drivers for GPUs as well. It's basically the industry go-to tool for anything regarding clean driver reinstalls. I've been using DDU for years now and it's never failed.
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Thanks for the DDU advice. much appreciated.
Also, Played 2D HUGO Blu-ray disk DTSMA 7.1 to the Rotel, using MC 31 with direct sound instead of WASAPI as a test.
Glitches at 12 minutes, 35 minutes 58 minutes, 1:21 and 1:45 and possibly last second.
Powerdvd22 and AnydvdHD are on this system. RX550
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Thanks for the DDU advice. much appreciated.
Also, Played 2D HUGO Blu-ray disk DTSMA 7.1 to the Rotel, using MC 31 with direct sound instead of WASAPI as a test.
Glitches at 12 minutes, 35 minutes 58 minutes, 1:21 and 1:45 and possibly last second.
Powerdvd22 and AnydvdHD are on this system. RX550
Thsnk you for trying DirectSound as an audio device, esotericxa.
JimH and Hendrik, this is now a 4th system evidencing "regular" audio dropouts ONLY when configured over DirectSound and JRiver. It seems to me that JRiver is doing something different that other players when sending bitstream audio over DirectSound.
Sure hope this can get solved - I have a unique use case requiring me to use DirectSound instead of WASAPI.
Thanks.
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We don't recommend using Bitstreaming over DirectSound. It's not a focus for us.
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We don't recommend using Bitstreaming over DirectSound. It's not a focus for us.
This is really too bad, becuase it's due to the "new" support of DirectSound in MC31 that prompted me to pay to upgrade from MC30. Furthermore, unless you have demonstrated a system that will properly bitstream over DirectSound this limitation should be documented.
Hendrik, LAV does not exhibit this behavior in any other media player I've tried.
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I fixed all stuttering and pausing simply by reverting to MC29. I did not do anything at all to drivers, operating system, etc. So, to me this says it is a MC31 issue.
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Or configuration. Or antivirus. Or different data.