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Windows => JRiver Media Center 33 for Windows => Topic started by: Angelo58 on October 29, 2024, 01:04:41 pm

Title: DSD upsampling
Post by: Angelo58 on October 29, 2024, 01:04:41 pm
Do you have any advice for upsampling to DSD? Settings, tools, plugins ...
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Awesome Donkey on October 29, 2024, 01:23:19 pm
Just make sure the system you're running MC on is good enough to handle DSD upsampling/conversions as it's very resource intensive, especially anything multichannel.

Also know that any sort of DSD upsampling/conversion is a lossy process with a PCM step in the middle. My personal advice would be to leave DSD as-is and just bitstream it at whatever the native quality of the media is.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Angelo58 on October 29, 2024, 11:21:30 pm
Thank you for giving your opinion.
There are many controversial ideas on the matter, but software like HQPlayer for example makes it a strong point. Consider that most DACs carry out operations inside it and often through multiple conversions to pcm and dsd. That's why it's better to have all this done from a computer and then sent to the dac.

But back to my initial question, what are the ways JRiver can upsample to DSD? And what are any plugins you can rely on to do even better?
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: dtc on October 30, 2024, 06:30:32 am
You can convert all playback to DSD in DSP Studio - Output Format - Output Encoding.

As Mr. Donkey said, upsampling DSD to a higher sample rate DSD goes through a PCM stage. You just need to be aware of that.

If you only want a certain format (like flac) converted to DSD, you can create a zone specific for that format and set up DSP Studio for that zone. Zone switch will allow the proper zone to be used for each format.

You can use the Convert Format to convert a file to DSD and save that in a new file.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Angelo58 on October 30, 2024, 07:46:53 am
Thank you. I thinked only from PCM to DSD.

Is there also other plugins or VST with more options for the conversion from PCM to DSD?
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: dtc on October 30, 2024, 07:52:59 am
There may be but I do not remember anyone discussing them here.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Angelo58 on October 30, 2024, 07:57:36 am
I hope that some friends of the Forum have some suggestions to give.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Awesome Donkey on October 30, 2024, 08:02:38 am
Yeah, I'm not aware of any plugins for that. Generally most enable the SoX resampler option, but for DSD to DSD (which is DSD > PCM > DSD) conversions that likely won't matter that much. Should work well for DSD to PCM conversions though.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Angelo58 on October 30, 2024, 08:11:26 am
Where is Sox option?
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Awesome Donkey on October 30, 2024, 08:12:51 am
MC's Options > Audio > Settings > Use SoX for resampling option, but like I said likely not too useful when doing DSD to DSD upsampling/conversions.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Angelo58 on October 30, 2024, 08:15:39 am
I do only PCM to DSD
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: davewave on November 04, 2024, 12:57:56 pm
Upsampling of PCM is great marketing.   I have severe doubts it can add anything in terms of fidelity.   Conversions from PCM to DSD are unlikely to add anything either.  But have fun with the toys.

I will try to casually mention that the intermediate step of working with DSD material going through PCM is far from ideal.  But I have no expectations that this will ever be addressed.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Awesome Donkey on November 04, 2024, 01:42:47 pm
I will try to casually mention that the intermediate step of working with DSD material going through PCM is far from ideal.  But I have no expectations that this will ever be addressed.

To be fair, most apps do the DSD > PCM > DSD conversion too, worse enough without mentioning it's happening. I think there's only a few apps that do direct DSD to DSD without a PCM conversion, can't recall.

I honestly wouldn't expect that behavior to change anytime soon, if ever. I would be surprised if it did.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: jctcom on November 05, 2024, 02:25:19 pm
I Believe that Ez-CD audio Converter does direct DSD to DSD.

I use it to split SACD ISO's into separate DSD/DSF tracks and I am pretty sure it does not convert to PCM in the middle.  Also use it for other DSD image files with CUE etc...

Carl.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: Awesome Donkey on November 05, 2024, 02:49:04 pm
I Believe that Ez-CD audio Converter does direct DSD to DSD.

I use it to split SACD ISO's into separate DSD/DSF tracks and I am pretty sure it does not convert to PCM in the middle.  Also use it for other DSD image files with CUE etc...

There's actually different. Generally there's no DSD to DSD conversion when extracting DFF/DSF from a SACD ISO... assuming it's using sacd_extract to do it, which I would be surprised if it didn't. Basically it extracts the track's raw data from the ISO and packs that track's data into an individual DFF/DSF container, so no conversion is actually being done.
Title: Re: DSD upsampling
Post by: davewave on November 11, 2024, 06:21:52 pm
There's actually different. Generally there's no DSD to DSD conversion when extracting DFF/DSF from a SACD ISO... assuming it's using sacd_extract to do it, which I would be surprised if it didn't. Basically it extracts the track's raw data from the ISO and packs that track's data into an individual DFF/DSF container, so no conversion is actually being done.
When it comes to DSD, my source is ISO files from my SACD rips.   Since I have the ISO files and often play then in JRiver, it would be simpler to just do any rips to DSD from within JRiver.  But yes, I can go elsewhere for that function.