INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 11 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: xen-uno on November 06, 2003, 05:14:15 pm
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When JohnT said "If you're using a non-IE web browser, the next build of MC (9.1.298 or greater) should fix this for you" in this thread (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=16621), it seemed like an ideal time to ask...
...so give it up!
10-27
PS: If you want to elaborate...please do.
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Fireboid for me. ;)
-=Tim=-
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Since I read your advise to try Firebird in another thread a short time ago I have never looked back. If MSIE was not integral to Windows it would have been uninstalled.
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I'm using MyIE2 (http://www.myie2.com). It's unbelievable.
Based on IE, but soooo much better.
crow
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I'd be lost without IE. Easy and intuitive IMO. Tried Netscape and immediately hated it. I do worry about MS dominance and it can't be healthy but you have to admit that their UI's are very well thought out. Anyone who uses Access or Word would have a hard time letting go.
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Good girl! (Lisa)
If no one has any objections then I'll make this sticky for a couple weeks so that we can get an accurate count.
10-27
PS: I'm real curious about the JRiver staff's preference. So come on JR...stand up and be counted (and state your reasons).
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I've voted Firebird although I use IE6 too.
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Was in the process of evaluating Firebird....MyIE2 is has swept me away...thanks Crowfan.
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But IE doesn't *do* anything, and want it does do, it does annoyingly!
The only time I tend to use IE is if a page doesn't work properly... and then I usually find that it doesn't work in IE properly either, or they were purposely excluding other browsers because they knew that they'd got better security and would suppress popups, etc.
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Sorry for the guys who propagated Firebird on this forum and sorry for me who listen to them. Unfortunately I listened to your propaganda, downloaded Firebird 1.7, installed it, played for 2 hours and sent it to recycle bin again.
1) It is much slower than IE6 on WXP-SP1 on an Athlon 2100+ pc, especially the loading of pages with many pictures.
2) It is not capable of doing a clean and proper import of all of IE's favorites.
3) For a lot of web-sites (especially Microsoft, but also others) you cannot use Firebird, so you need to keep IE anyway. But for such a case I expect an automatic synchronisation of cookies and favorites between IE and Firebird. If such a product wants to gain market share over IE, this is to me is a basic requirement.
4) There are definitely good ideas implemented in this product, but far-off of being a replacement for IE right now.
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Hm... Firebird isn't actually a release product yet and doesn't claim to be. The difference in version number compared to IE (0.7 v 6!) makes that pretty obvious.
However, I'm frankly amazed you think it's slower than IE. I'm not making it up when I say that on no machine I use (and I use dozens of them for work and at home) is IE anything like as fast as either Firebird or Mozilla (which actually I'll carry on using for now because the mail client is essential for me).
As for sites it doesn't work with - there really *aren't* that many. It DOES work quite happily with a load of sections of the Microsoft website (particularly after all the publicity that MS were explicitly making their website incompatible with other browsers), so I don't know why you'd be having trouble with it unless it's a particular section I've never used....
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Having just installed MyIE2 I may need to change my vote. I'm very impressed so far.
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I urge anyone who has never tried my IE2 to give it a go. I did and never looked back.
There are a lot of tabbed browsers out there but none of them have the range of features of MY IE2.
It's also freeware, unlike some of the other IE based tabbed browsers.
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I also use MyIE2.
Just a GREAT browser
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Jaguu > downloaded Firebird ... sent it to recycle bin
Phil > I may need to change my vote
Let's keep it clean here, boys.
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I tried MyIE2 but i prefer Avant. Same thing really, repackages multiple IE windows in one app but Avant did some things better than MyIE2 but i can't remember what now. Horses for courses.....
JJ.
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MyIE2 is great....my favorite feature is the ability to set the browser to *automatically* clean history and cache when I close the browser, but leave my cookies alone (so that I don't have to sign in to Interact every time I visit ;D)
Mike Noe, you're welcome ;)
crow
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(http://home.revealed.net/xen/Message.png)
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I'd be lost without IE. Easy and intuitive IMO. Tried Netscape and immediately hated it. I do worry about MS dominance and it can't be healthy but you have to admit that their UI's are very well thought out. Anyone who uses Access or Word would have a hard time letting go.
I've used Word for many years... but this past January, I switched to OpenOffice and haven't looked back. Sure, there are a few rough edges, but I figure that it needs people using it to beat^h^h^h^hsand those edges out.
Sure it doesn't have ALL the features that word has, but I never used 90% of those features. If I wanted to have something look good, I'd just dump it into Pagemaker and use that.
However, I'm frankly amazed you think it's slower than IE. I'm not making it up when I say that on no machine I use (and I use dozens of them for work and at home) is IE anything like as fast as either Firebird or Mozilla (which actually I'll carry on using for now because the mail client is essential for me).
I agree. Firebird is much quick on every system I've used it on (from 200MHz up to 2.4GHz.) About the only thing that it's not as quick at is loading up, and that's because you are comparing a program loading up to one that is stored in memory. M$ already has IE running, so it loads really quickly. I believe that there is an option to allow you to have FB load into the sys tray at startup... and/or to have it stay there once you've loaded it, so subsequent loads are quicker.
There are a lot of tabbed browsers out there but none of them have the range of features of MY IE2.
FB's extenstions fix that, grab the Tabbed Browser Extension.
http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions/ (http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions/)
Other extentions of interest:
Flash Click To View - Flash load as just a button, when you click it, the flash download and run. Nice way to get rid of flash adverts.
Slashzilla - Slashdot from the sidebar.
Things They Left Out - Additional options.
The thing that I like about FB is that it's fast and clean and you can add functions only if you need them.
Also, FB has live searching of Bookmarks and History, from the side bars.
kiwi
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Crowfan:
Based on your post above, I downloaded MyIE2. I've played around with it for a while now and all I can say is...THANKS for the tip. Major props to you for the lead. It's an awesome browser!
Thunderbird 1 FAB
P.S.: Double props for the Go Minnesota, Boston, Florida signature in October. If my team's out of it, there's nothing in sports like watching the NY Skankees lose...except perhaps watching the Dallas Cowboys lose.
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I've been using MyIE2 for a long time.
Things I like about it is the quick save for images, mouse gestures, content / popup filter, and plugins like Flash Save, Right Click, Highlight, Weather, Hotmail, and Google Power Search. "Drag and search / open links in a new window" is handy too.
I tried Firebird and still have it on my system but the only thing I don't like about it is the tabs and the way it shows some links (like the ones in this forum).
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I've been using MyIE2 for about a year now (maybe a bit less)... but it causes a bit of havoc with my password manager program (Password Officer). I tried Firebird two weeks ago (because of the many recomendations here), and I haven't been using MyIE2 much at all since then.
The Firebird extensions are very comprehensive. There's almost nothing that I'd like to do but can't. The interface is very good. And there are many "little things" that make me very happy. For one, I love the fact that I can copy a URL in a newsgroup that has been wordwrapped, and Firebird properly strips the CR/LF when I paste it into the address bar.
I don't like Firebird's built-in XSLT processor and I haven't gotten SVGs to display in Firebird yet. But other than that, three thumgs up! Thern there's also the hassle that Microsoft apps want to open IE (or MyIE2) for internal hyperlinks... like Messenger and Outlook. What a PTIA.
It amazes me that such a huge company can't fix the obvious feature holes in their browser. I guess this is a great study for the dangers of a monopoly.
I think I'll support Firebird just because it's good (great) *and* open source.
Scott-
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Count me in as another MyIE2 user (and I've tried them ALL).
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I used to use Netscape...then moved to Mozilla... and now I'm in love with Firebird.
Based on the number of people raving in here about MyIE2, I decided to download it and give it a shot... I figured that since I have to have IE on my system, it might as well be the best it could be. And while I have to say that MyIE2 is MUCH, MUCH better than regular IE... I don't find it nearly as intuitive or, to be honest, as customizable as Firebird.
On my system, Firebird loads faster, and MyIE2's tabs are driving me nuts! I hate that I can't get the tabs to open in the background (which is one of my favorite things about tabbed browsing). Also, I find that when closing a tab in Firebird, it always does a nice job of taking me to the next tab... either right to left... or left to right...depending on which tab I'm looking at. None of MyIE2's options (previous, next, default) can do this.
Oh, and Ctl+N is supposed to open a new "window"... not a new tab.
I'll keep playing with MyIE2 for a bit longer, to see if I can get used to it... but it's going to have to work pretty hard if it's going to convince me to switch.
EDIT: Actually... I find it interesting to see the various proportions of people who use each browser. I suspect this is related to how computer literate the MC crowd is vs. the "general public" (for lack of a better term). It would be interesting to know if the proportions in the poll results are similar to the page hits for JRiver, or for a site like Google.
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Both of the aspects of tab behavior that you've mentioned are configurable.
Go into MyIE2's options, and select "Window" in the left side. Select the appropriate option (I use "Previous"). You seem to indicate that this doesn't work, but I don't see why that would be. I mean, when you close a browser tab, you can either go to the tab that was opened next in the sequence, or previous in the sequence. Unless Firebird has a "Read my mind" option, I don't see what MyIE2 can be doing differently than Firebird.
By deselecting the "Activate new window" option (which is found in the same aforementioned location), you can get tabs to open in the background. There are other ways to toggle the same option as well.
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By deselecting the "Activate new window" option (which is found in the same aforementioned location), you can get tabs to open in the background.
Thanks! Worked great.
You seem to indicate that this doesn't work, but I don't see why that would be. I mean, when you close a browser tab, you can either go to the tab that was opened next in the sequence, or previous in the sequence. Unless Firebird has a "Read my mind" option, I don't see what MyIE2 can be doing differently than Firebird.
Ah... but it is different.
An example:
I have a string of tabs open...
1....2......3.....4......5......6.......7....
If tab 1 is the MC9 forum, and 2 through 7 are threads of the forum. I want to read all of the threads, one by one. I usually open tab 2, and when finished with that thread... I close the tab. In Firebird, I find myself looking at tab 3 (which makes me happy...no unnecessary clicking). In MyIE2 (using the 'previous' or 'default' options), I see tab 1 again...the MC9 forum (which doesn't make me happy). However, using the 'next' option shows me tab 3, so all is well.
An alternative might be that I would like to read from thread 7 to 2. In Firebird, I read and close tab 7 and I see tab 6 (again, I am happy). In MyIE2, (using the 'next' or 'default' options), I see tab 1 again... the MC9 forum (I am not happy). Using the 'previous' option works great (and I am happy).
However, you may see the problem. In Firebird, no matter which way I want to read the threads, it works. In MyIE2, I can only go one way or the other... but not both.
I believe that the logic that Firebird uses for tabbed browsing is as follows:
If the current tab is not the rightmost tab, then move to the right when the current tab is closed. If the current tab is the rightmost tab, then move to the left.
Of course, many people would probably say "Aww, who cares?" or "THAT'S the thing I hate most about Firebird!"... but like favourite audio encoders and favourite cars, everyone is entitled to an opinion... and it is JUST an opinion.
Like I said... I'll keep fiddling, and keep reading what everyone says they like about it. If it grows on me, maybe I'll switch... and maybe not.
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Was using Mozilla for a while and loved it, loved the tabs, loved the lack of having to install it, loved a lot about it.
Designed a site and LOVED how it looked in Moz. Unfortunately I forgot to check the site in IE after that (Obvious stupid mistake I know) and then showed it to the customer and it looked terrible in IE which doesn't properly adhere to CSS Standards.
As a result I've moved to my IE2 and LOVE it.
Moz is a great browser but as a developer I have to use whatever the majority of people use and so I have both on my system but mainly use IE as most people use it and so my sites have to be designed to look best in that!
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I've just downloaded and tried MyIE2 ...
... i think it will get my favourite browser.
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I use AVANT BROWSER which I love.
It is based on IE so tends to work with most pages on the internet...
Mark.
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Personally:
1. 45% Opera (I love tabs and gestures and all)
2. 45% IE (couldn't find a way to make Opera open another *window* when in tabs mode; since I use virtual desktops, this really bugs me)
3. 10% I like FireBird but had issues with CSS formatting (although the features used were W3C/CSS-1 compliant). I would otherwise make it my 100% preferred browser (since it has what *I* need from both Opera and IE and is so fast!)
Professionally:
As a web developper, I aim towards being compatible with IE, Opera and Mozilla (IE5-like generations).
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i would go with Opera, it made a huge difference over IE. Tabbed browsing makes participating in forums a lot easier.
THe only thing i need to figure out is how tomake it open windows one at a time, between sessions or after a reboot.
Currently it tends to open up all of them simultaneously and exceeds my dial-up speed very quickly. SO pages need to be manually refreshed afterwards.
THe other great feature about opera is the ease of displaying pages with/or without graphics. ( type g ) THis speeds up browsing a lot. I display pages on this forum w/o graphics and its really fast even over dialup.
Can IE2 or firebird do the above ?
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I ticked Firebird as this is my Browser of choice although I seem to end up using IE a lot as the mouse seems to gravitate to its icon. Old habits die hard :) As for web design I design using only standards compliant code and can get the page to look exactly the same in Firebird, Opera and IE. Just takes a little tweaking. The great thing is because IEs CSS support is so ropey and does not support child selectors you can actually add in CSS specifically for Gecko based browsers which IE will ignore as it does not support it. I have used this to create a site using just CSS and named DIVs that acts like a frame based site in Gecko using fixed positioning and as a norma table based site in IE. Best of both worlds...all users see all my content, the sensible people using Gecko see it in the best possible way :)
Adam
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Boy are we NOT an average audience. :)
-=Tim=-
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Seems pretty representative to me...
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hit > THe other great feature about opera is the ease of displaying pages with/or without graphics. ( type g ) THis speeds up browsing a lot. I display pages on this forum w/o graphics and its really fast even over dialup. Can IE2 or firebird do the above ?
There are all sorts of extensions (http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions/) for FireBird (hit the link and see what's available). The default behavior is pop-up window blocking. Image, In Line Ad's, and Flash can be blocked as well. In some cases they are still DL'd...just not displayed.
10-27
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P.S.: Double props for the Go Minnesota, Boston, Florida signature in October. If my team's out of it, there's nothing in sports like watching the NY Skankees lose...except perhaps watching the Dallas Cowboys lose.
Thanks Thunderbird1, I wasn't sure if anyone noticed that!
Looks like we have a Giants fan in the hizzouse! You guys killed me this past weekend (I was there to see it all firsthand, and it hurt). But that's OK, because the Yankees still lost ;D
crow
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Anyone tried iRider? It looks very cool indeed, though it's not free. There's a 21 day trial, I plan to give it a test drive though I'm a bit busy at the moment so will hold back for a few weeks.
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Hey Adam, I'd be interested to see that site :)
Got a link?
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I've just tried MyIE2 and...I LOVE IT!!! Thanks for the recommendation!
Wobbley
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Crowfan:
Looks like we have a Giants fan in the hizzouse!
I realize this is a bit off topic, but there's actually a Niners fan in the house. And also a fan of any team that plays the Cowboys!
BTW: I'm still working witth MyIE2 and it continues to impress. Second round of props to you, Crow.
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I realize this is a bit off topic
Yeah, sorry about that everyone :)
but there's actually a Niners fan in the house. And also a fan of any team that plays the Cowboys!
ahh, I guess I'm so used to the Giant fans here in NY hating on the Cowboys, I just assumed. Go Niners! (except when playing the Jets of course ;D)
Now, to get us back on track:
MyIE2 also has tons of great skins on their site. It's nice to change it up once in a while! Skinning seems as active over there as it is here
crow
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Then you will love MyIE2.
Give it a try, It just improves IE6.
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Like I said... I'll keep fiddling, and keep reading what everyone says they like about it. If it grows on me, maybe I'll switch... and maybe not.
Hey, to each his own. I try hard not to be a software chauvanist (except where Media Center is concerned, of course. ;))... I've swayed from one browser to another too many times to be.
The truth is, my real preference is with Opera 7. I very nearly switched to it recently, and the only thing that stopped me was a bug where I'd try downloading binary files, and get a browser page full of ASCII text instead. There was a workaround, but I'm not interested in paying money to put up with issues like that.
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The main reason that I started searching for an alternate browser to IE6 is a known bug (I'll post the link if I can find it) that causes the browser to freeze when you have it set to prompt before setting a new cookie.
My default browser now is Firebird. A few reasons are (in no particular order):
- tabbed browsing - yeah, I know that Opera, MyIE2, etc also have tabs, but this leads me to my next point...
- customizability - FB comes with a basic set of options and advanced options are added by installing extensions. Opera, MyIE2, etc have all those options built in by default and I don't need or use about 98% of them. With FB extensions I can install only the advanced options that I want
- a very simple, plain interface
- it avoids some of the more obvious security issues (such as activeX) that are a risk when using IE or any of the IE frontends
- standards compliance - yeah, once in awhile you run across a page that doesn't display correctly because it is using IE-only code, but using IE I came across just as many pages that didn't display correctly because the site used 100% standards compliant code
- built-in popup blocking
Rob
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hit > THe other great feature about opera is the ease of displaying pages with/or without graphics. ( type g ) THis speeds up browsing a lot. I display pages on this forum w/o graphics and its really fast even over dialup. Can IE2 or firebird do the above ?
There are all sorts of extensions for FireBird (hit the link and see what's available). The default behavior is pop-up window blocking. Image, In Line Ad's, and Flash can be blocked as well. In some cases they are still DL'd...just not displayed.
Thx for the poniter...will check it out.
Just wanrted to say Opera already blocks graphics, this includes all sorts of them.
What i want to know..is there a way i can load a style sheet that could block out all the distracting stuff. I realise that this is site specific, but there are certain sites that i browse on a regular basis.
SO basically only show the graphics that are relevant to the page...kinda lke smart browsing of sorts. i would examine the page source and then wrote some sort of style sheet that loads automatically when i hit that site.
any ideas anyone ?
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1 · Opera (fast, beautiful (Occhi Blu Scheme) & full of features)
2 · Firebird
3 · MyIE (if the engine wouldn't be from MS it could be my No.1)
4 · MS IE (just for compatibility reasons)
In this order...
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I realize this is a bit off topic, but there's actually a Niners fan in the house. And also a fan of any team that plays the Cowboys!
My feelings too! Go niners! Go whomever is playing the Giants!
Though, I also have to cheer for the Raiders as it's great to see Jerry Rice still doing amazing things out there.
kiwi
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I just downloaded Firebird (thanks to you) and took a look. It looks very good. I had some trouble installing (zip file and flash) but it's fine now.
Here's a thought. What about a version of Firebird that has an installer and comes with MC and is as compatible as possible. What do I mean by compatible? Installs flash better. Has the Toolbar set for MC and other destinations you recommend. Has a set of bookmarks that reflect the well read MC audience. A spell checker for the chalenged.... You name it. Maybe we do it.
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What about a version of Firebird that has an installer and comes with MC and is as compatible as possible.
I like it, Jim. The internet is definately a form of media - and if you want to be true to your slogan of "All Media. One Interface"... ;)
Or were you pulling our leg?
Scott-
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I just downloaded Firebird (thanks to you) and took a look. It looks very good. I had some trouble installing (zip file and flash) but it's fine now.
Here's a thought. What about a version of Firebird that has an installer and comes with MC and is as compatible as possible. What do I mean by compatible? Installs flash better. Has the Toolbar set for MC and other destinations you recommend. Has a set of bookmarks that reflect the well read MC audience. A spell checker for the chalenged.... You name it. Maybe we do it.
um . . . . that'd be swell
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Or were you pulling our leg?
I don't think so.
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Good boy! (Jim)
He sounds serious, Scott. I don't think he would be so cruel to the FireBird faithful.
Jim,
How about offering the JRiver specific stuff as an extension? Seems like that would fit in well with the idealology of FireBird (basic features out of the box, add-on extensibility). I like the idea of an installer (I've heard the unofficial one at mozilla.org works well...is that what you used?). Now that you've moved up...you can read my earlier post that looks like a gray featureless block to 60% of the voters here. Make sure you try one of the optimized builds and the about:config tweaks. Welcome aboard!
10-27
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Hey Xen, how much of a cut do you get for each 'convert' you generate to Firebird?
I bet you get a generous percentage of the purchase price
(ok, let's see . . . . 20% of free = ?? )
He sounds serious,
Don't believe him! He promised me a pony and I never got it :'(
Oh, wait a minute . . . that wasn't Jim, had him confused with someone else :P
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Two Firebird questions....
Can someone tell me how to allow Firebird to open executables vice downloading? For example, when I click on the link to download the latest version of MC, I can't select "open". I have to save and then open manually.
Am I the only one who has a problem with adding YABBC tags to my posts? Whenever I click on one, it adds the tags to the end of the post, not at the cursor. The "surroundText" javascript function doesn't work, either.
Thanks.
Scott-
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...open executables vice downloading?
There's been several long discussions about this at the Mozillazine forums. Currently, this is not an option with Firebird.
Am I the only one who has a problem with adding YABBC tags to my posts? Whenever I click on one, it adds the tags to the end of the post, not at the cursor. The "surroundText" javascript function doesn't work, either.
I'm absolutely no expert on javascript, but I would imagine that the problems are because of non-standard, IE-specific code. If someone knows for sure that this isn't the case, then it's a bug and probably should be reported at Bugzilla.
Rob
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As for web design I design using only standards compliant code and can get the page to look exactly the same in Firebird, Opera and IE. Just takes a little tweaking.
Thank you Adam !
Old-time tests with old generations Mozillas used to give me so poor results in regards with CSS compatibility that I didn't really checked thoroughfully whether it was Firebird or my CSSs that was not giving me the desired results, especially since it appeared allright on IE, OP and Linux Godzilla... (shame on me; this was the ONE thing keeping me from making FB my Nr.1 browser)
Having read this thread and paticurlarly your quote, I went into thoroughly checking my CSSs. And Firebird eventually looks as good as IE and OP while being so much faster ! (it actually respects the CSS standard much more than IE and OP, reason why I could not see some sizing inconstencies in those)
It will be my preferred browser from now on ! Faster than IE, even more flexible than OP, I couldn't wish for more.
;D
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Just came across the post over at Mozillazine announcing that the official Windows installer build of Firebird is now available. This should help fix most of the problems people have getting flash and/or java to work when using the zipped builds.
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=33734
Rob
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I've been using MyIE2 for about 3 months now.
It hasn't caused me any problems, it hasn't crashed on me, slowed down, screwed with other software, caused me to reboot constantly, forced me to re-install my OS, made me gnash my teeth in despair, caused my brow to furrow, broken me out in a cold sweat, made me swear like a trooper, or anything.
In my books, that makes it pretty bloody good software!
Firebird? Pfffhhtt! Get a life guys! Poor suckers hanging on to the shreds of the whole Netscape thing with grim determination...
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Am I the only one who has a problem with adding YABBC tags to my posts? Whenever I click on one, it adds the tags to the end of the post, not at the cursor. The "surroundText" javascript function doesn't work, either.
That's funny. I'd just assumed that the correct behavoir was to add it at the end. ? Guess I've never used IE to look at the boards.
Can one set up MyIE2 to have the middle button give you auto scroll when clicked anywhere other than a link, and open in new tab when clicking on a link? I had a hard time figuring that out.
kiwi
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Hat to rain on your parade lunch but Firebird actually has nothing to do with Netscape...it is a seperate entity written and ditrubed by The Mozilla Organisation. Netscape is a separate company run by AOL. The only similarity is they use the same browser engine - Gecko - which happens to be about 20 times better than IEs eg supports 32 bit tansparent PNGs, is fully CSS 1 compliant etc...
Don't knock it til you try it...
Jim - a specific MC FB would be great but like was mentioned it would be better as an extension
Cheers
Adam
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NoCode,
Maybe I need to try a newer version of Firebird...
The version I tried maybe a month or two ago didn't exactly set me on fire.
Don't want to start browser wars, just stating that MyIE does all I need a browser to do, and hasn't pissed me off by being flakey.
I know the Netscape/AOL/Mozilla stuff, I wish it were that easy getting a bite when I'm a-fishing!! 8-)
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Can any of the Firebird aficionados tell me why FB was so slow in loading pictures on my system? I installed it with the Beta Msi installer and did not change any default preferences? By the way, I have 600B/s download speed! Does that matter? It might be fast on a dial-up line, but not on a high speed line!
And can you tell me how you handled the fact that not all IE favorites were imported and not sorted the same way as in IE?
And if I use IE and FB at the same time how are you going to synch favorites lists?
Then I might give it another try! Thank you!
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Can any of the Firebird aficionados tell me why FB was so slow in loading pictures on my system? ... By the way, I have 600B/s download speed! Does that matter?
600B/s?
I would assume that it does matter.... ;D
I'm assuming that was supposed to be KB, as if it's B's, then you have figured out your problem.
What pictures does it have a problem loading?
kiwi
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Lisa > how much of a cut do you get for each 'convert' you generate to Firebird?
100% of a warm, fuzzy feeling.
Scott > how to allow Firebird to open executables vice downloading?
Install the Download Statusbar extension. Puts a (temporary) bar across the bottom of FB. When the DL is complete, right click on the "marker" and select Open.
edit: I see what you're getting at. You don't care where the *.exe is kept (which would be the Temp Int Files dir for IE)...you just want it to DL and then start the installation, correct?
Scott > it adds the tags to the end of the post, not at the cursor
Yeah, has done that from day 1 (regardless of build). Never remembers cursor position. It is easier to compose posts in IE. I've adapted though. Could be incomplete implementation of JS, or as mentioned, IE specific code.
Jag > why FB was so slow in loading pictures on my system
Try the about:config tweaks here...
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=15859;start=msg107394#msg107394
For processor optimized builds (they really do make a difference)...
http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/
Not sure why all your IE favorites weren't imported. Sorting in IE can be done with a right click. Sorting in FB is done with FB>Bookmarks>Manage Bookmarks, which will bring up the Bookmarks Manager. Take a look at the sorting options there (blows IE out of the water), plus you can drag & drop.
Rx
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Scott > how to allow Firebird to open executables vice downloading?
Install the Download Statusbar extension. Puts a (temporary) bar across the bottom of FB. When the DL is complete, right click on the "marker" and select Open.
Thanks for the tip... it works very nice!
edit: I see what you're getting at. You don't care where the *.exe is kept (which would be the Temp Int Files dir for IE)...you just want it to DL and then start the installation, correct?
Yeah.... I'll just save them to the Temp Int Files directory. I don't mind double-clicking - at least it's there to remind me.
Scott-
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Sorting in FB is done with FB>Bookmarks>Manage Bookmarks, which will bring up the Bookmarks Manager. Take a look at the sorting options there (blows IE out of the water), plus you can drag & drop.
My only complaint is that I can't figure out how to get Firebird to show more than one column of bookmarks. MyIE2 lets them span many columns, meaning I can get all my bookmarks on the screen without having to scroll down for ages.
Scott-
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Perhaps you can explain to me why I press the Start button to stop my PC?
Ugh geez--please tell me you're not dredging up that silly old joking nitpick! What would you prefer, a separate "Shut down" button, next to the "Start" button?
The "Start" button makes sense, because you do have to "start" the shut down process. It's just a button label in any event; I don't think it has confused too many people over the years, in and of itself.
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(http://home.revealed.net/xen/Message.png)
Is this for real (I mean... serious)? In seven years of Internet use, this is the first time I've ever had a PNG transparency issue with the IE engine.
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Is this for real (I mean... serious)? In seven years of Internet use, this is the first time I've ever had a PNG transparency issue with the IE engine.
I've NEVER seen IE do PNG transparency right. It's always a light-ish blue instead of transparent. And, don't forget that PNG is fairly new - while the standard was approved in 1996, it has been slow to gain widespread use.
On the other hand, transparent GIFs have always worked well with IE.
Scott-
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Shore is...it is a 24 bit png. IE can display transparency on 8 bit gif's and png's only. Look at it with another browser (no...I can't recommend one ::)).
Rx
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Well, one huge downside of using Internet Explorer, and all browsers that use its engine, is that its dominance means that Microsoft can ignore its problems and put the parking brake on its improvement and development... but that's an obvious point. ::)
I'm about to give Opera another shot. How well "Wand" works is the make-or-break for me (since Opera and RoboForm are bitter enemies). :'(
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I've always kind of liked Firebird. But I just can't give up the feature in MyIE2 that automatically cleans history and cache each time you close the browser. FB allows you to d/l an extension (called "x") that lets you do this by clicking a button. Is there any functionality in FB that works like MyIE2 in that respect?
I love my MyIE2, but something in me would love the idea of abandoning MS totally. I just want to keep my functionality :)
crow
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I've tried Firebird but I keep going back to the basic Mozilla browser. I don't know why - for me it seems slightly quicker, it's definitely more stable and I just like the way it does things. Firebird for the moment seems to be just Mozilla with a whole heap of UI-related bugs slapped on top. Plus Mozilla gets the bug fixes and stable releases out a lot quicker.
Each to their own though - isn't it fantastic that we have all this choice? :)
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I've been playing around with MYIE2 since last night and it's quite good. The one thing that will keep me from using it is that you can't drag and drop to add or sort bookmarks in either the Favorits menu or on the Favorites Bar.
Rob
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I've been playing around with MYIE2 since last night and it's quite good. The one thing that will keep me from using it is that you can't drag and drop to add or sort bookmarks in either the Favorits menu or on the Favorites Bar.
Yeah, you have to drag-and-drop in the Favorites "Explorer Bar" (View > Explorer Bar > Favorites, or use Ctrl+I). And for some idiotic reason, you have to close and relaunch MyIE2 for the change to be reflected. (Just one of the things about MyIE2 that annoys me.)
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It seems to be a problem of most of the "IE-frontend" browsers that I've tried, so MYIE2 is not unique in that respect. Also, K-meleon (which uses the Gecko rendering engine, like Firebird, but uses Windows widgets for the UI) has this problem.
Other than the drag and drop bookmarks thing, though, I have to say MYIE2 is pretty good.
Rob
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Scott > it adds the tags to the end of the post, not at the cursor
Yeah, has done that from day 1 (regardless of build). Never remembers cursor position. It is easier to compose posts in IE. I've adapted though. Could be incomplete implementation of JS, or as mentioned, IE specific code.
Yeah, I think that it must be something that's incorrect with yabb... and/or using a jscript function that's not supported. I use MyPHPadmin at times, and it has no problems inserted items at the cursor.
Not sure why all your IE favorites weren't imported. Sorting in IE can be done with a right click. Sorting in FB is done with FB>Bookmarks>Manage Bookmarks, which will bring up the Bookmarks Manager. Take a look at the sorting options there (blows IE out of the water), plus you can drag & drop.
Plus, with "live searching" of your bookmarks, you almost don't need to bother sorting them.
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Well the poll didn't specify which browser on which of my computers... I usually browse on my iBook so I'm for Safari all the way!
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kiwi > Yeah, I think that it must be something that's incorrect with yabb
It displays the same behavior at Hydrogen Audio, or any forum where there's a focus shift (ie clicking on a html button) from the compose window. The mozillazine forum does not have these...which may be why the problem hasn't been corrected yet.
Rx
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It displays the same behavior at Hydrogen Audio, or any forum where there's a focus shift (ie clicking on a html button) from the compose window. The mozillazine forum does not have these...which may be why the problem hasn't been corrected yet.
I think that it must just be using an unsupported jscript command. Or looking for cursor information in a way that isn't supported. I was just saying that it is possible to have data inserted w/ jscript from a function in FB. myphpadmin (a web based admin tool for mysql) has a dialog box where you can use external buttons to add fields to your query.
I didn't try it at first because I thought that it would behave as this dialog box performs, but it does work correctly. I'll have to take a look at the code and see what's different. It might just be a small change.
kiwi
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Would be cool if that was the "Secret Project" that there working on
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I've used (in alpha order) Camino, Dillo, Firebird, IE, Lynx, Mozilla, Netscape, Opera and Safari.
A few personal observations:
IE is ok for sites that have IE specific code, otherwise I never use it. It seems like a dead project for development as far as I can tell.
I'm used to Netscape and use it most of the time but since AOL is not upgrading it any more I use Mozilla more often, it sure loads SLOW though. Long term I think Firebird is the way to go and the Thunderbird mail client works well for people used to using Netscape Mail. I don't know how anyone can do without tabbed browsing and integral popup blocking.
On my home machine, Opera is quite fast. I don't like the default layout though and get rid of stupid sidebars as fast as possible (this goes for all of the browsers that support them). Opera seems good at handling content on sites I frequent. Dillo is unbelievably fast, too bad the release version doesn't support https and authentication. When Dillo gets those I will be using it remotely over X enabled ssh links for administration purposes. Lynx does support https and auth so I use that often for remote administration.
Camino was my replacement for IE in MacOSX until Safari came out. Both Safari and Camino need more work but one nice thing about OSX is the single location for plugins so if you use multiple browsers you don't have to continually reinstall newer versions of plugins for each browser on your system.
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M$ just announced that SP2 for WinXP will integrate a popup blocker in IE. It's about time! Now, when do you think we'll see tabs? Longhorn? ;D
crow
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Good boy! (Bob)
"Long term I think Firebird is the way to go" (I like how this man thinks)
Crow...
That's a start. Seen anything on the png transparency issue? Probably not :(. With MS dragging those huge feet, they are slowing down the adoption of several good image formats (24 bit trans png's and the siblings' mng & jng).
Heart warming though, is that the alternative browsers are making a strong showing here. So to MS I say "Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way".
10-27
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MOZILLA --- I have tried most and I love MOZILLA !!! :D
IE is just plain terrible.. All the others have their good and bad points.
-- I have not tried Firebird.
Just my 2 cents worth.... Anne
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Just figured I would post that I found a cool new feature (well, new to me) of Firebird, with the Tabbed Bowser Extension Plugin.
If you put the mouse cursor in the tab area and scroll with your scroll wheel, it can scroll through the tabs. Very handy if you've opened quite a few tabs are looking for the one that you want.
kiwi
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This is very interesting to note:
1. Apparently nobody is using Netscape (not on this thread anyway).
2. MYIE is clearly a dramatic improvement on IE
3. FB is gaining ground in each release, and offering a truly viable solution to the IE engine.
4. Mozilla and Opera is for the true computer geeks! :P
I remember years ago doing internet research on usage, ISP's and browsers, and the landscape looked much different. Interestingly, Netscape was far more popular b4 AOL bought them, as was AOL itself. Come to think of it, Winamp was much more popular before AOL gobbled them up too. AOL does seem to have that effect on people, just ask the folks at TW :o.
My choice is MYIE, if just for the tabbed browsing and built in pop-up killer features.
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This is very interesting to note:Winamp was much more popular before AOL gobbled them up too. AOL does seem to have that effect on people, just ask the folks at TW :o.
;)
-=Tim=-
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FB is gaining ground in each release, and offering a truly viable solution to the IE engine.
You can kind of lump Firebird/Netscape/Mozilla together in this respect, since they all use Gecko for the rendering engine. And, according to the Mozilla roadmap, Firebird is eventually going to replace the Mozilla Suite, with Thunderbird and Sunbird as the separate mail and composer clients.
Another cool Windows-only, Gecko-based browser I've been fooling around with for the past couple of days is K-Meleon. The 0.8 release has some cool features, like being able to use both Netscape/Mozilla style bookmarks and IE style favorites simultaneously. It's very fast, as fast as IE on my machine, and extremely customizable for those that like to get under the hood and tinker.
Rob
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MyIE is like MC9 to me
For the web there's nothing that can really meet up to it's functionnalities ... and else !
(my personnal point of view of course !)
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4. Mozilla and Opera is for the true computer geeks! :P
I believe that this is because people never install other software. They are unaware of it. I've installed FB on a number of non-geek's machines, initially setting it up so that IE is still the default browser, but they now have a second link on the desktop for FB. In many cases, I've had these people ask how they can make FB the default since they like it more.
If people don't see other options, then they go with the base setup.
kiwi
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Sleipnir, http://sleipnir.pos.to/ like MYIE2 yet doesn't have all the unneeded extra stuff. Been my default browser for about a year and a half.
Listening to: 'Whole Lotta Weed' from 'Mista Don't Play: Everything's Workin'' by 'Project Pat' on Media Center 9.1
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Per my earlier post, I tried Opera 7.21, and I've just gotta say, the "Wand" feature is very lackluster. I currently use RoboForm with MyIE2, and while I want to switch to a non-IE alternative, I won't even consider switching to another browser that doesn't offer the same kind of functionality I get with RoboForm.
I know that RoboForm works in "kluged mode" with Mozilla (http://www.roboform.com/manual.html#browser_nn6) and some other browsers, but I can't put up with all those limitations.
I need a way to store personal information, and a way to automatically fill web-based forms. The data repository needs to employ strong encryption (preferably other than AES), and it needs to be something I can view and edit.
Opera's "Wand" doesn't cut the mustard. Where non-IE-based browsers are concerned, does anything?
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What a fun thread this has been. Tried Firebird a while ago and just didn't like it's "feel". Thanks to Crow and others for the MyIE2 recommendation. Really liking it.
And boy do the Interact forums load so much faster. ;D
Adam(S)
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Kiwi,
Just a quick note to say that you can use the scroll-wheel through all open tabs in MyIE2 as well.
Wobbley
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Achtung IE users!
GoogleBar (http://toolbar.google.com/) does popup blocking. Makes IE much less annoying to use (my heart still belongs to FB). The bar is more sophisticated than the FB version. It includes Page Rank, and shows you right on the bar how many popups it has blocked. Very cool.
10-27
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OK... now I"m starting to suspect a conspiracy. All of the sudden, IE has started taking more than a minute when first opening a browser window. It also takes MC a simliar time to load, as it's set to start with the Start page (which uses IE to render). And Outlook takes a while, too - though I didn't think IE was integrated into Outlook.
If anyone's heard of this before, I'd *really* appreciate advice. Googling for hours hasn't helped.
Scott-
P.S. I really do think it might be some jealousy on the part of IE - I've been using Firebird for a month or two now.
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Better late than never.
As an average competent user -- and many time less than competent-- here is my opinion.
First i grow up on Netscape- My internet provider - at this time [first months of internet connection here] they send you someone- was a very strong Netscape-Netscape Mail suporter.
So ,from day one i used Netscape and Netscape Mail.
When on moden 56 kps ,i removed Internet Explorer from my computer.
And i NEVER opened Outlook Express in my life.
When still on moden 56kps ,i found Opera. The difference of speed was just INCREDIBLE.
Since them [Opera 3 or 4] ,i allways had Opera on my system.
Netscape 6 and Netscape Mail 6 , and the lack of plugin, like download manager just put me away from Netscape .
All over browsers having plugin problems with the programs i used, i had real hardtime.
And started to use Idiot Eternal-- Well ,not as bad as i throught.
But ,compared to Opera , Netscape and Mozilla , a lot of features missing.
Had a try at Firebird ,.I like it .Having using Mozilla ,i'am not in unknow land.
But , takes a lot of time for a non power user to set.
And , for people like me , there is a problem with Mozilla and Firebird: they are in perpetual developpement and do not carry for mister average. And never will.
Netscape was a good thing in the sens that it was a mister average version of Mozilla project.
Opera understood that the MC/interact crow only does not give you enought bread.
MyIE2 : first time ,you feel overwhelm by the general look. But i really like it.
From now ,i will use MyIE2 instead of IE ,but still have a very soft spot for Opera ,and will use it more than MyIE2.
The problem with Opera is a very weak Emailclient.
But i use now the stand alone Mozilla Thunderbird email client--Quite good.
So ,Opera and MyIE2 for me
Right now ,using Firebird ,and I HATE this blinking curser allmost on the last letter i type .
Listening to: 'Acid Mothers Temple & The Melting Paraiso U.F.O. - Electric Heavyland - 03 - 03 Acid Mothers Temple & The Melting Paraiso U.F.O. -' from 'Electric Heavyland' by 'Acid Mothers Temple & The Melting Paraiso U.F.O.' on Media Center 9.1
Look like i have to tag it.....
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Opera 7.23 for me.