INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Jukebox => Topic started by: JimH on September 19, 2002, 03:58:40 pm
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In the discussion on pricing, several people said they didn't want MJ to change too much. Others want more power.
We ask ourselves the same question here. It goes like this.
On the one hand, we can focus on making MJ better at being a good database manager for music.
On the other hand, we can make MJ a more "full service" media manager. This means handling recorded video, TV, DVD, and digital photographs.
Left? Right? Up? Your views would be welcome.
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I vote for full-service media manager! I've got all the PC hardware in place in my great room to record TV off satellite, watch DVD's, watch recorded TV, etc. When HD TV sets come down in price, I would love to be able to pipe audio/video to it from MJ. This PC is on the network so all of our pictures, videos, etc, are there. I am extremely interested in eliminating steps like going to "Control Panel" to switch the video output to TV, etc. You know the kinds of things I am talking about.
With Microsoft locking down Media Center so you can only play back recorded video on the Media Center PC, there is a huge market out there for a product more realistic than that.
Thanks for listening!
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While I am not really into DVD's (or even movies at all) or picture handling, this is still the way things are moving in peoples homes and businesses. An all-in-one media handling application will be the thing to do to stay on top of things. HDTV, DVD Audio (or SACD ... who knows), surround sound, home entertainment areas (a larger version of the home theatre) that would be what's known as "cutting edge". Or "The Future". Be there now or you will be trying to get there later (to paraphrase Robin Williams).
MTC
CVIII
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Been there, done that. But we ain't done this....
Guess you know where I stand.
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Both have good and bad sides..
The managment option must stay one of the most important. No other program has such a good managment.....and in such I think it has it's importance.
But yes....making it more allround is nice. But you can already watch DivX and DVD with it...if you install the codecs!
You might want...nah!
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Personally I'd rather see the focus be put on music.
I would say only put effort into video & images if extra cycles become available.
MTC
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I would agree with the Media Center approach. How good can a music manager really get? How much better than the others out there can it really be? Well, by adding more features and functionality, of course, it will become more "unique" and hopefully still do it's job well.
Isn't this the way of most evolving products? I don't think you really have much of a choice at this point.
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It seems to me that if it's an either/or decision--i.e. music library enahncements or more format coverage--it makes sense to become the best at what you're already very strong in. Once you conquer this territory, then move on to the next target. Don't over-extend yourselves.
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I vote full-service, but implemented as a core with optional plugins.
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i can't imagine most people have a need to organize image collections like we do with music. that is unless they have lotsa porn ;) movies could be cool, but that hasn't broken into the mainstream yet. i would focus on audio. at least separate them into modules. i used to hate having to run netscape communicator when i used it just for web browsing, not for email or newsgroups. don't let mj get too bloated.
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I hope for 2 versions or 1 version with optional plugins. I don't use all the features of MJ now, much less future additions. I agree with Mike Noe that there is a limit to future progress of the music database functionality, and recognize that software has to evolve. I just don't want to subsidize a bunch of stuff that I won't use. Happy to pay for it later if I need it.
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I would prefer a focus on music. Perhaps a separate and new product can provide pictures and video.
The problem combining the two is that the needs are different. I would rather have an excellent, complete, tool that specializes on a task vs. a swiss army knife that does everything less well.
There is a proven market for a MUSIC jukebox. It is less clear there is a market for video and pictures.
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The problem combining the two is that the needs are different. I would rather have an excellent, complete, tool that specializes on a task vs. a swiss army knife that does everything less well.
Many people at Hydrogen Audio/Audio Illumination already consider MJ a Swiss Army knife. The usual response is have one program for each and every step. Seems kind of goofy to me. Most have probably never used MJ and are unwilling to give up on that AOL player. Which is now considered a jukebox???
MJ could actually have something going for it here if it started a trend towards all-in-one-Media-Dominator. Imagine what could be commonplace in a few years from now. Being the first one to dive into this arena could pay off big time for J River.
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::)
I like the idea of a full featured MJ also. Not sure how my ol' system will handle it though.
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Well, you can count me in the depth before breadth camp. Not that I wouldn't like to see a great all-in-one media center, I just don't think it's possible to create and maintain one that will make enough people happy.
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"Jack of all trades, master on none" and "kiss"
First off, I don't think MJ has violated these two axioms. Though, I am concerned this could happen with a "all-in-one" tool. I've seen it before.
I already own ACDSee 4, PSP 7, and other image software. I think of MJ as my music/video program playback program, encoder/converter, tagger, organizer and emusic download manager. I use Nero for CD-R duties. I own getright, but am pissed with them that they haven't updated the software to handle post script downloading.
I think the "core" concept of a database/encoder/tagger should be first. There exist so many more possibilites to make the library kick ass even more.(like an "access" style switch board to organize queries).
Yet, I trust you guys, and I'll go where you go as long as the quality/fuctionality is retained and the price doesn't get too high. ;D
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:o
Have a strong opinion about this one. In my opinion, it is much better to have a product that does one or several things very, very well, than a swiss-army knife approach with a product that tries to do everything, with some okay, some really good. It also is different markets. I think your too spread out as it is and would love to see you improve on what you have.
The truth is, I'll bet most of the people here don't use other products for some of the things that MJ does.
How many use other CD writers in particular. For video players, there is a GREAT free one called Zoom player and of course WinDVD.
Hate to bring it up, but there is Windows Media Player 9, which is the swiss army knife of media players, that does everything and I'm afraid it does everything pretty well. Truthfully, MJ can't compete with free and I think that will take care of a lot of the non-techie types who tend to be attracted to a all-in-one solution (no putdown intended, please).
I think your market is to make the BEST, most flexible, HIGHEST QUALITY audio center that you can do.
I'd love to see CD burning get more flexible and more stable, or drop it altogether.
Focus on great CD burning, I use EAC ( :-[) myself, but would love to use this one. Or drop that as well.
I'd like it if you keep focusing on media playing, making sure that you allow for flexability and the best sounding music, better than any on the market. Lots of add-ins. Organizing, is the your strength.
I'm afraid too much means use of too many computer resources, which is the biggest problem I have with the current version. Make it LEAND AND MEAN.
Full service means you compete with Microsoft media player, making superior quality, stable, product with great support like you give here is the way to go.
Quality not quantity.
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Going for an all-in-one will definitely make things more complex. For example, you might want to listen to music while recording a TV show. You might want to play a video while recording a TV show. You might want to listen to music while watching a picture slide show while recording a TV show...
Getting older versions of Windows to keep separate audio/video streams all going at once sounds difficult as I don't think the older OS's were ever designed to handle something like that. However, I still think it should be attempted as PC's will definitely be doing all of these things simultaneously sooner or later. Why not start trying now...it would be fun trying to get it all to work.
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I personally use MJ the most for audiofiles. This will change, if the pictures-functions added to MJ9 are improving (they are right now, so I'm optimistic).
I would like seeing MJ grow into a media center. But I'm a little scared, that this might also lead to less quality or handling problems (e.g.: right now you have to switch by hand between the different view-modes; this is not practical -> and example of the things I believe will damage MJs handling in all).
Personally, I think I can use a good organization tool for all my mediafiles. And I like the way I can find one things in between a couple of thousands. So I don't think not adding new features will lead to a better program. Bigger=Better.
Btw. the new forum is _very_ good. But the "notification about subject responses" is send without the actual posting text. I liked that.
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I'd prefer management features over multimedia features. As far as multimedia goes, I only use MJ to watch DVD's. I can live without the imaging features in version 9.
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Strongly Strongly Strongly consider that master of one rather than jack of all is your best approach...
How many people register MJ for DVD use ?? None I think.... How many register it for TV use ?? none I think... Sure they are nice add ons perhaps of interest to some but your market is audio... If you want a DVD player you DL Zoom Player for free... If you want a TV app you download dscaler for free... Sorry but both of those kicj MJ's ass at its specalized subject by being exactly that specialised...
People come to MJ for audio 99% of the time... Perhaps they find use in the other add ons but I would bet that your registrations come from >90% simply the audio users where you are IMHO king... Dont spread yourselves out too thin by looking into features that dont pay the bills...
Of course you could make a suite of apps that is designed to pay a reg fee depending on hours put in to develop... Charge 20 - 25 for the audio portion... $15 for the image player... Let the market forces decide which one to develop further by which onepays the bills...
I said it in the other thread too but audio is your market... Target it well and dont concentrate on bloat... WMP9 will be the streaming video player... Sorry but have you tried those SDK's for WMP9 codec.... True math lossless @ 2:1.. What they describe as audiably lossless in that high 90% of trained audio professionals cannot tell the difference between compressed and un compressed @ 4:1 (with 10k setup to headphones) the video codecs will handle 1080p with 7.1 channel audio streamed.... Forget the player they have locked the codecs down (good marketing strategy) and for once I have to say they have them sorted.... Streaming HD video is here now !!!! How can you compete in that video areana ?? Dont fight them on thier turf... Fight them on yours....
Make MJ the best / cleanest / superb audio jukebox system out there... Concentrate on absolute sound quality... Single file rips... DTS CD's... DVD-V audio tracks... Hell even think about an MLP decoder (thats swimming uphill I know).... but dont try and make a nearly as good DVD player or TV app....
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I remember when I first met Mediajukebox a while back that I was not looking for the best music player or the best skins or shiny visualizations. No, I was looking for the best Music Organizer, and I'm glad i found it.
All that to say that I think the organizing skills of MJ, could well be used for photography and other media files.
When you look at the other competing software either in the music field or picture/video fields, the trend is to move to a true multimedia approach, I think that's inevitable.
that was just my 2 eurocents !
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I think that the way to go would be to make MJ the best music Jukebox(which it is at the moment) and to maintain that status. The other media types should be offered as an extra plugin. You could end up making MJ over complex, and thereby scare a lot of people away from your product. I feel that a good stable programme would attract customers, then the added possibility of enhancement, would attract those with more needs.
I personally, am finding MJ more daunting, as more features are added. I like to take things slower, learning how to use one feature properly, before advancing to the next. I just feel that you might be able to attract more punters by all the features, but will they stay with it, if they then find it is difficult to use??
Just my thoughts. Best wishes for the future. Whichever you decide.
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Please focus on music. There are already players in the media centre market (RealOne, WMP) and there's a bunch of very good image organisers, so why try and beat other people at their own game? I chose Media Jukebox because it was best at organising my MUSIC collection. I would be pissed off if I felt my upgrade dollar was going into features I neither want nor need. If you simply MUST handle images and/or video, then do it as plug-ins or split the product into a suite or whatever. That way people can pay for the features they want.
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My main use for MJ is music. I am not sure if it's because some of the other functions are well hidden for me (and I'm too lazy to figure it out), but for now, I've gotten used to use MJ for music, WMP for video and AcdSee/winXP functionality for images.
It works for me and I would personally see MJ become even more superior in music handling (MJ8 is VERY good, but could be miles better, especially when it comes to databasing).
So, to end this rant, I think you should go for focus on music and possible let images and video become optional (would've been nice to see pluginized...I think it would be more easy to actually learn the new stuff if you take it one plugin at a time)
BTW, congrats to your new forum! I'll miss the old one though, it was one of the few left that was homemade :)
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The music management is what I find most important. I don't do much with the visual media, or use another program for dvds, photos, etc. I'd be afraid that if MJ were to be more full-featured, this would affect the basic management bits and performance might suffer. But I'd like the option-two versions, or plugins/modules.
Just popped into my head-would be interesting to see a survey-a page with all of the features of MJ, with checkboxes. Check the ones you use, circle the ones you think are important to keep or develop - see how people are using it, and what specifically people would want in their media manager. As a fairly new user, I'm sure there's quite a bit I will still uncover and learn about. Be cool to look at a list and say "I didn't know it could do that!"
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I personally think stick to Music.
I think the plugin approach to add extra features is probably the path to go down. This will make it VERY easy for plugin's (and therefore core powers) of MJ to be dropped. If no one was using the TV plugin then you could drop it easily without having to modify MJ too much. If no one was using the CDR plugin then you could drop it. If no one was using the image browsing, you could drop it. And so on.
This would also help with the pricing as right now the preposed price seems a bit steep. If on the other hand you charged $29.99 for MJ, then $5 for Burning Support as a plugin, $5 for TV etc etc then people wouldn't mind paying the extra to get the extra features they want. It'd give you the extra cash you wanted, plus more for users that wanted several plugin's and it would also let users pay for what they want rather than paying for everything you do when they only want one or two features.
How many users would pay say $100 for a program that could burn, organise their music, watch their dvd's, browse and edit their images, copy cd's for them.
None I think even though the price would be cheap for everything it could do. It's just too much money to fork out when people usually already have favourite programs for each task. They would just want it to say organise their music.
Also, I use a specific image browser for browsing my images because it offers me a lot of extra tools specifically to do with images. ACDSee for instance can crop my images, change the hue, saturation, remove red eye etc. It's designed for images so a lot of tools specifically for images are added.
It would take you guys alot of time and work and therefore cash in order to be able to even just catch up with ACDSee or CompuPic Pro as far as image browsers go - not for browsing powers but for little extra's.
What you can offer however that they dont is the ability to organise the images, this is where they both lack, they're image browsers not image organisers.
Your great at organising stuff.
Also, when I'm dealing with images I want one set of options, toolbars, column views etc, when I'm dealing with audio I want a totally seperate one with different tools etc. Right now for me when I tested v9, the image browsing was nice and to be honest I might have started using it but it's just not complete enough for me (I know it's beta but I mean from what I've seen so far). When I'm browsing my images I want my toolbar to have options like: Edit Image (which launches my external editor) rotate image, etc etc. I also want a totally seperate view scheme for the columns etc.
I agree with the person who said either beef up cd burning or drop it. I love the feature built into MJ as it means I can find the music I want then burn it. However I just dont use it any more as it doesn't burn cd text which to me is a big feature.
Dont try stretch yourselves too far and end up doing an ok job at everything. Work at what you already have and make them rock solid, then make them rock solid and easy to use, then conquor the world from there.
For now please just stick to what your great at: Organising and playing music and just work on making it easier to use MJ, re-vamping the GUI, adding more batch tools to do jobs on our database (batch image covers getting, tools like finding duplicates that I would hope my music organisational tool would have - luckily is now covered by a plugin.) etc. Not on trying to add the ability to do a lot of other stuff to a very basic level.
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I ditto what has gone before. The main reason that I registered MJ was for its music abilities. The organisation features are without comparison. The fact that I can tag and rename all my files anyway I want was what originally drew me to the program. Yes I use some of the extra features but again these are the audio features. I am afraid to say that when I want to watch movies I use WMP as it seems more capable of playing the particular codecs they are using, and some of the Div X films I have use the WMP engine when I play them in MJ anyway. For me, the improvements should include increasing the scope of the database and tagging functions, improving the media editor and various other tweaks but to the current features. The number of image files I have on my computer would not justify the image features and anyway I can download Irfan View for free which does enough and if I want to edit them I can use Photoshop or PhotoPlus. Look at the market place and you will see a huge number of products which are trying to compete with the big boys and are simply not able to. Lets face it nobody will ever produce a better program for video editing than Premiere and nobody will produce a better image manipulation program than Photoshop. It wouldn't be worth trying. Develop those things that you are good at and make them even better. Lets see if we can get MJ mentioned in the same breath as Photoshop. Get it to the point where nobody can produce a better audio program than MJ.
I apologise that this message has become so long but thought it was worth airing my views. ;D
Adam
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I agree with the person who said either beef up cd burning or drop it. I love the feature built into MJ as it means I can find the music I want then burn it. However I just dont use it any more as it doesn't burn cd text which to me is a big feature.
Are you sure about this?
From The CD Burning Tips Page:
What about CD-Text support?
If your CD burner supports it, and it is supported by our CD writer library for your burner, MJ will add CD-Text to your audio format disks. Check the web page http://www.goldenhawk.com/faq_body.htm#cdtext to see if your burner is supported for writing CD-Text. CD-Text consists of the CD title, artist, and track names and will be displayed on home and auto CD players that support this feature.
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Strongly Strongly Strongly consider that master of one rather than jack of all is your best approach...
I love the all-in-one concept, but I think you should concentrate first on audio management and playback features, (then it can still be expanded - step-by-step).
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I'm inclined to echo the plugin viewpoint or even separate programs that would integrate well together.
:-/ Perhaps a blend. Continue the all in one for just the organizational stuff with a button to load the currently selected item, image, mp3, etc. into your configurable power tool of choice - be it an MJ plugin, MJ program, or other program.
-Eric
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Machine Head,
I am sure, I checked this out a while ago on the forum.
I used to be able to uncheck the 'Use Generic Driver' option which would then enable cd-text on my machine and on older builds I could do this and it worked fine. It used to write the cd text for me. I cant remember what build it changed in but after that build it no longer was possible for me to disable the generic driver and so i can no longer burn text and it's VERY annoying for me as I burn audio cd's to play in my car cd player and it displays the cd text of each song as I play it.
I've had to revert to Nero for all my burning needs.
This is a perfect example of a feature MJ needs to perfect before trying to add new features.
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I totally agree with Nila. I love the idea of having Media Jukebox as a great audio organizer first, and paying like $29.99 for it, with the added option of being able to purchase plugins at like $5 or so, for image support, cd ripping, cd burning, tv, dvd, media server, etc...
That way, your efforts are concentrated on the main program, MJ, and the extra money that the plugins bring will allow you to devote more resources to those being purchased the most often.
My 2 cents. Randy.
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Phat Phreddy, I'm all over that! Like he said, make MJ the best audio manager ever. If you want to do images, use a plugin thing that people can pay for and d\l.
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Good idea w/ the plugins but my opinion would be that CD Ripping and Burning should be integral to the main program seeing as these are part of the audio setup for most people and not plugins. For me the important things would be the organisation, file tagging/renaming, folder organisation linked with explorer, the abiltity to find info and covers from the inet, Media editor, cd ripping and burning and access to all the formats. As I said aboce anything to do with images or video is not exactly essential especially when you consider that there are free alternatives which can already do a lot more things than the early builds of MJ would be able to. After all they have had years of development time...
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::)
Hello everyone. I am Lucy.
I like MJ, but if you are going to charge $100 (for example) for the full service, I don't think I can afford it.
Any value pack?
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I'm not sure it's an either-or game.
For example, in version 9, the database engine was rewritten to accomodate some of the needs of images. However, what came from it is a database that's twice as fast, uses a fourth the memory, and adds lots of features and flexibility -- regardless of the media type.
Another example: adding thumbnailing for images turned out to be a great feature for music cover art as well.
There are lots more examples.
If everything is built atop the same core, an improvement to one area helps everything else.
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Matt,
Dont take any of this as an offense or me being negative against MJ because I LOVE it and I think you do a lot of great work.
But surely if the db got that much faster that just goes together with the idea of the fact that the features there should be worked on more strongly to power them up and make them that much more powerful.
It is an example of how MJ is a great program but of how it progresses in general by new features being added on rather than at some point stepping back and looking at the little mound you started making and at the huge mountain you have now created that has features left right and center.
I think you need to look at whats there and what you've built and now spend some time just redoing and totally re-doing the interface. Not just adding new features onto it.
The db is a perfect example of how when you looked at what you already had, you could improove on it hugely by going back and re-doing it again.
I do it with websites I'm building all the time. Go back and re-do a few pages once the site is completed and I have a better understanding of what there is as a completed project and ways I can make it better, smoother and more stable.
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Nila,
I'm sure you mean well, but you're preaching to the choir.
This team is as professional as it ever gets. They are pro's. They have been over the same code many times. Matt just gave you an example of the rewrite of the database core. That was at least the third version of it that I remember.
If MJ doesn't do what you think it should, we're glad to hear ideas, but please don't tell these guys how to code.
Jim
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I found MJ while searching for music management software, and that is what would keep me a loyal user.
It does it well and I would hate to see future efforts to improve that diluted by stretching yourselves too thin.
Looks like things are pretty split on this opionion, so I guess we haven't been too much help!
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SORRY!!
I really didn't mean to offend or say anything bad. I think I just worded what I meant really badly.
Sorry Matt and Jim - U know I think your good :)
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I support the majority view of making the audio management tools the best available. I've converted many users from MM to MJ and not a single one made the conversion based on anything but the strength of the audio managment functions. They wouldn't have made the switch based on the auxillary functions of image viewing, tv viewing, dvd playback. I really believe the best marketing stategy is to find your market and deliver the best product for the money, not the biggest product.
Shelly
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I have to agree with the plugin path. I do use a digital camera and a reasonable editing program would be nice as a plug in. I think most people like MJ for the burner and the way you can organize files the audio is great too. I would really like to see a plugin for the cracks pops and hisses I think we talked about this before never heard what happened. Maybe in MJ 9
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Here is my two cents worth.
I'm in a similar business to you but in a different industry. I understand the pressure to add lots of stuff to appeal to a broader market and maintain a competitive position.
However, products that do best in the long run are ones that do a limit set of things well. Blackberry is an example.
I think MJ is wonderful but I think you do too many new things too fast without enough resource applied to making the basics more stable and easy to use.
So as a businessman and particularly as a customer I'd like to see you focus on music, music, music. Build the most solid, killer, manager for digital music there is.
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I personally chose MJ because it could handle all of my audio and video. If I had only wanted audio, I could have stuck with WMP or Siren. They also had some video functionality, but nothing like MJ.
So the Video handling is pretty big for me.
Promise of lending that power to images as well got me really excited. I've been getting into underwater photography and the only way I can keep anything organized is if it's on my PC. As I get more and more into this, I'll be happy that MJ can handle it.
With that said, I think it would be a good idea if it was handled via plugin architecture. But I wouldn't want to see it implemented the way Interface plugins are now. For instance, I wouldn't want to have to go to the Plugins tree and go from there. I'd want it to integrate right into MJ in such a way that you'd never know it wasn't all just one package.
The only reason I think it would be good to see it that was is that I'd be willing to pay $45 for an app that did all of this, but I recognize that not everybody else would. And I'd hate to see MJ cease to exist because nobody was buying it due to its cost.
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Well what can I say, nothing , your home page says it all.
Media Jukebox
The one that plays it all
Thats why I bought it.
Griff
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I want Ogg and MP3 ripping, encoding, decoding. The database is a nice feature, I think you should keep that.
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-USABILITY- (my #1 suggestion)
(is that spelled right?)
MJ currently is very complex with lots in it.
It has a very steep learning curve that might scare away common folk. I feel that if you want a broader customer base, you should concentrate on making the UI very intuitive, and easy to learn.
When I first installed it and started playing with it, the first thing that I thought of was wow, this program is awesome, but very confusing.
-LINUX PORT-
Yeah, this is coming from me :) Make a linux port. Watch your paid customer base grow like hotcakes. Its a niche market ready for your picking. It lacks an all-in-one player with the library. However, I know that this would be a LOT of work based on what little I think I know about MJ... Or maybe try for WINE support.. I cant find you guys in their application database.
The only reason I am suggesting Linux is because of the quick & easy increase of customer base.
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Started thinking about this some more. Is v8 maybe being slated for the 'lite' version later down the road? It would make sense in some respects. Already a Superpower in its own right. The ability to eventually update to the God Emperor status (sorry Frank) of v9 may be attractive to users after they figure out if it's something they would be interested in.
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However, products that do best in the long run are ones that do a limit set of things well. Blackberry is an example.
I think MJ is wonderful but I think you do too many new things too fast without enough resource applied to making the basics more stable and easy to use.
So as a businessman and particularly as a customer I'd like to see you focus on music, music, music. Build the most solid, killer, manager for digital music there is.
Totally agree!!!. I think that first, you should be the better Jukebox, second, be the undisputable better Music Jukebox (music videos, cover view enclosed) and later go for the other things; but if you wanna develope more of the other things at cost of music related stuff, then maybe other Jukeboxes will get to where you're now and make it harder for other people use it, especially if there's big prices difference (or more possibilities of get them free). Take a look at what responses is getting WMP 9, or Winamp 3 in other forums and you'll see that it's not easy be the best!!!. I have it clear, using and trying to promote MJ from V 6 to now, and with great expectatives using V9 Alpha, while i don't find any better music organizator than MJ i'll keep usin it, but if some other is almost as good as MJ then most of people won't take the time to download and learn to use this having enclosed in their new computer WMA9. You have to do it THE BEST to really can get to many of these people. And you're the best at the music related stuff but will be hard to win the fight at the other stuff (image-video-tv-dvd). If there's people that use MJ and burn/rip their cd's with other software, here you've somethings to develope first.
My 2 cents!!!.
By the way, promote MJ9 with screenshots of desktops full of covers. It looks so nice ;D and useful ;). This is one of your ways to stardom ::)
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Thanks to Jim et al to make it possible for all of us to weigh in on this and so many other important issues related to MJ. An honor and privelege! And if any community is up to it, it's this one.
As with many, I was initially drawn to MJ for it's library functionality, but also thre rest of the rich feature set all in one place. Eg: although my research led me to believe that EAC might give me more flexibility and maybe higher quality (at no cost) I liked the idea of staying within the MJ interface (and the ongoing support that a for-profit product should offer). In this vein, I think it makes sense (given available resources to do it right) for MJ to evolve into a comprehensive media center as more and more people will be using PCs for photos and other multimedia. I think your "average" consumer likes an all-in-one as long as it does most things reasonably well and provides them with a consistent interface and upgrade path.
I've seen brief mentions of Microsoft Media Player 9 in some way requiring the use of DRM restricted files. If this is indeed the case, it would seem that MJ could take the lead as the best all-in-one "open" system. No matter what story you have to tell, though, I think marketing is one of your biggest challenges.
I don't envy JRiver task of sorting this all out, but you guys have my admiration and support.
Good Luck!
Bob L.
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Recently you've had people asking for a Lite Version of MJ. You also have some asking for more and greater features. Now you ask "Which path should we take?".
For me, I want an MJ with fewer functions but with more powerful features within those functions. Like others, I have other software to do some of the functions MJ does. I had the others first, and I'm comfortable with them. MJ excels at organizing, and that's what I like best about it.
Which path? Which path?... As a devout fence sitter, I couldn't pick one. Why not take BOTH? Many software publishers have different level versions of a program (ex., PCDJ-silver, blue, red), or similar programs in the same field aimed at users with varying needs. Can't you do the same? Let the market response determine on which path to continue.
On a side note, I find the forums to be a great place to get helpful information about the product; on the flip side, I also find it a place to find everyone's complaints and troubles with the product. Some areas seem to come up frequently and I'd have to agree with an earlier sentiment, fix it or drop it. Where some see the frequent releases as a quick response to users' troubles, others might wonder "Why so many patches, isn't this product stable YET?".
Like I said - a devout fence sitter.
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Music all the way, with an expanded/improved Media Server for home networking/remote listening.
Look, if you try to be all things to all people, you'll alienate little groups here and little groups there and price out others who only want one thing and don't want to pay for or deal with functionality they don't use. WMP and REAL are trying to be all things and consequently they are not the best at any one thing.
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I agree, windows Media Player is great as a Player but it sucks as a jukebox. It does what it's name claims though, it plays files great (esp. v6.4)
Media Jukebox also does what it claims great, it's a GREAT jukebox program.
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ve some strong feelings on this one. I have tried virtually every jukebox /center product out there and I have come to one conculsion.An everything playerr sounds good, but does anybody have the resources too do one right that does not take over someone's computer and still be stable and still cast something people will pay. I don't think so. You have a strong loyal customer base. You have a quality product. If you start trying to be all things to all people, the quality will suffer at least for the foreseeable future. And the loyalty of people on the net is fragile. They'll skewer you in a second. (the emails on the registration issue are an example.
Now having said that. If you want to do another player that does some of those other things and does not mess up the successful one but can complement it,, Then thats anothwer story!
Real player weas doing fine with player and then jukebox but this real one thing is a mess. no one want s to give that kkind of control of their pc to anyone. We all hve Microsoft on our minds and don't want to create another monster.
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A case study for you to consider:
I have recently sold a computer system to an exclusive wine bar / restaurant for MP3 playing purposes. They wanted something that could handle playlists and automate much of the headache that goes into the simple task of finding music that plays right and the right time, that doesn't skip and that is easy to use.
Without hesitation, I recommended Media Jukebox (and will be purchasing a licence for them during the course of the week!).
The moral of the story? Know your client base -- in this case the managers have a restaurant to run and need a simple, yet sufficiently powerful system to run. Their attention needs to be focussed on other things, not learning how to use a piece of software that plays music. If it is too much hassle, they'll use a CD player.
Secondly, these people do not want (or even care about) an image processing system and will not want to buy a bloated piece of software for features that they have absolutely no interest in using. Ever.
Who is your market? Are there many people who are looking for a swiss army knife that has a tent attached, or are they looking for a tent with a swiss army knife attached? Find out which part of your software is useful and sell that. Don't sell people stuff they don't want otherwise you end up with resentment and having to pay large prices.
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I think you're going in the right direction. I'd like my PC to be the hub of my entertainment center. If it's not MJ, then it'll be Microsoft or Sony.
TiVo-like functionality will be very common in the next two years. Most people don't know what it is. Most people will love it when they try it. And soon after that, they'll realize that the PC can improve the TiVo experience considerably (just as it does with the music experience). There's so much more you can do with a high-resolution display, keyboard, and mouse - than you can with a TV screen and a remote.
No one does TiVo on PC well yet. The TiVo box is still the easiest way to TiVo. I think that's a great opportunity for you.
With ordinary TV or DVD playing, I don't see how PC software can improve the experience much.
And with images on PCs, that's another PC thing that will become a bigger part of people's lives though they don't know it yet. But there's a lot of competition here, and many are good at it already, including Windows Explorer, AOL, Kodak, and Snapfish.
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For the immediate future, I'm interested in MJ's music functionality.
In terms of the swiss army knife discusssion, I personally use specific applications to do specific things that they are the best at.
Having said that, I don't have a digital camera or TV image capturing device, etc. But if I did, I would probably watch TV and captured video on my TV, like I do with DVDs today.
Keeping an eye on the future, then yeah, in maybe a year or two I may be interested in video or image management.
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I kind of agree with the last statement.
For now (v9) and probably v10 as well, I'd just like the focus to be on purely enhancing what is there already and adding audio and library related features as well as GUI changes.
Maybe after all that is rock solid then worry more on all the extra features, possibly as plug in's to help with the pricing structure.
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I have over 20K mp3s. I am in the process of ripping an entire (very large) cd collection.
I don't care about movies. I want a database that doesn't crash or hang (which it is doing now). I want the media server to work well. I would like better web support.
I have a tv for movies. I have other software for movies. I don't watch DVD's on my computer.
Better management - PLEASE.
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I know I already responded, but I just had another thought on the subject.
Microsoft. Like them or hate them, they've done something right to grow so huge. One thing they've done, I think could work here.
Take a look at Microsoft Office. It's a collection of separate applications that work well together as the Office suite. If you don't need the entire suite, you can purchase the individual apps that you do want. Get one, get several, or get them all - it's your choice. Whatever you choose, you know they will work together (OLE; copy from one, paste into another, etc.).
It's all about choices. We've seen there are several differing wants and needs among the current users. I think a mix and match approach would come the closest to making them all happy.
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[edited by JimH for readability]
If you are serious about going the all in one route, you need to be sure that whatever product mj becomes will be organizationally superior to any other software you anticipate being in the market at the time you release your own.
I would think you would need to be thinking not just what your present customers may want, but what the next generation of computer users habits and inclinations are likely to be.
I think you are safest staying as leader in the audio market myself, as that decision would not require you to research future trends nearly so much, or holistically, and would therefore be cheaper for yourselves as a company, with plugins development
to cover yourselves if the market does develop for all in one media management software.
Remember, the more expensive your product is, the more likely it is to become the target of hackers, crackers,
Incorrect pricing and/or insufficient competent market research could kill your company.
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Thanks for the opportunity to comment.
I would prefer that MJ remain a music management tool. Yes, you have to compete with Microsoft, Real, etc., but if you keep MJ "open", then you will have a great opportunity to maintain and increase the user base.
Having just installed the WMP9 beta, I am disturbed by Microsoft's efforts to manage "licenses" and I hope that all who install WMP9 take time to learn of the possible consequences of this license management scheme.
Finally, based on my experiences with MJ, I would buy a TiVo-like PVR from JRiver.
Tom Jacoby
Houston, TX
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"Do what you're good at and pay others to do the rest."
I would twist that a little to answer your question. JRiver has developed the best music organizer. You need to be careful not to let that part lapse by applying your resources to other areas. I've seen engineering software companies go in the dumper because of this. They were very skilled at one niche of the engineering marketplace; they then tried to offer everything; they pissed off their original users and never really fulfilled their new goals; they cashed out and sold off the company. Very sad.
I think you should structure it like this: keep the bulk of your resources on the proven application: music organization. Treat the other areas as separate profit centers. Bootstrap by giving them X man-months. When they are releasable, release them as optional add-ons. Those profit centers that customers want will support themselves. Those that don't will become unsupported or phased out.
This allows you to keep the Base MJ price low, and still offer add-ons--but only those who want them will have to pay for them.
Scronch
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Music Music Music. There are other great programs out there to help me manage my digital photographs (ThumbsPlus).
My fear is that to make it "easy" to use for other things, it will become harder to use for music. Please don't "AOL" it, making it so easy to use for the masses, that I can't use it anymore.
Has anyone tried to use any tape back software lately? It's horrible, loaded with wizards, that it's hard to get it to do what I want.
Be careful.....
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Another idea...
What would it be like adding more features to the COM-interface and let plugin-developers support different media-types? You have to provide the apropriate options into the MJ-framework, but could left the actual work to others. I guess, there are quite capable developers who would like to join in...
For an example look at the plugins already existing. They are all quite high quality and the functions are necessary and nice done. This means also, that these afforts are not holding you from adding features and improving the software.
The more you add, the more I would like MJ. But it seems like I'm not representative for the customers in general.
What do you think?
Mirko
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Split it up. Audio Jukebox at X$ and priced for an extra Y$ the full Media Jukebox. Then people will have to find other things to argue about. ;D
Build them both off the same core, even make the Media Jukebox an big upgrade plugin as suggested.
Feature I would like to see:
Let the media server re-encode on the fly. Then for people like me (who rip everything to ape) could stream things via something like 256kbps MP3 to work.
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[shadow=red,left,300]Plugin Plugin Echo Echo.
[/shadow]And as above I agree with a philosophy of Mastery first bells, whistles etc, later
Master the core - which is database and organisation.
This has got to include everything that say, MJ 7 had - burning, ripping, rename and all that stuff.
Then charge for extra modules of new stuff like slide show, image handling etc.
Outstanding new board BTW.
You'll have to excuse me while I post 86 fillers to make my 500 Citizen Kane-ship
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Machine Head,
I am sure, I checked this out a while ago on the forum.
I used to be able to uncheck the 'Use Generic Driver' option which would then enable cd-text on my machine and on older builds I could do this and it worked fine. It used to write the cd text for me. I cant remember what build it changed in but after that build it no longer was possible for me to disable the generic driver ...
Have you tried changing the setting of "Use internal ASPI..." on the cd writer settings page?
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That worked,
had to uncheck that, restart MJ, uncheck generic.
Thanks :)
Slightly long winded way of having to do it :)
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Again,as i say from mister average.I do nost understand most of the posts as i do not really understand most of the Mj fonctions and stuff like 'generic driver' and so on.
I am on music at 100%.And would like MJ to first solve some problems-burning songs who need to have the name shortened-and some others things.
I would like MJ9-10-11 to be stable as 7.2 was,not as 8 is.
I would like MJ to get some small new features like burning cd\mp3 not in a,b,c,d order.I would like JRiver staff to crash they heads to find the faster way to rip using the same encoder than now.
If at the same time MJ moves to the 'image' field and a more 'full service' media manager,why not.
If the musical side of MJ not only stays the same but improves in some fields who-sorry- do not work that well,i do not mind any other changes.
Concerning the price,on my side i would pay the $50 for 9 if the music section improves.
But you may have to thing about pluging to buy on the top of a starting price not to high
Here my 2 shekels
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I'm a "best of breed" man myself. Maybe once you've added every missing feature to the music side of things, I'd change my mind. But, for now, I'd much prefer you concentrated on the Music Jukebox features. Unless MJ becomes the best at something (DVD Playback, Video Capture, etc), I'd still continue to use the other apps I use for that, anyway.