INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 11 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: sapnho on June 10, 2006, 03:06:52 pm
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We are about to change our computer topology to a joint Apple/PC network. Unfortunately MC isn't available on OS X (yet?) so I have to run both iTunes and MC. Currently APE is the format in our system which iTunes can't read. So I was wondering to which lossless format I should convert the data base of music files so that both worlds can access the music. Any thoughts?
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This nice little player can play APE files on OS X:
http://cogosx.sourceforge.net/
It does not have anything like MC's database, but instead of trying to bring everything to a Mac you could try RealVNC for accessing Media Center over LAN:
http://www.realvnc.com/products/beta/macosx/
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It does not have anything like MC's database, but instead of trying to bring everything to a Mac you could try RealVNC for accessing Media Center over LAN:
http://www.realvnc.com/products/beta/macosx/
Use the "TightVNC(unstable)". It's faster (almost no delay) and I haven't found any stability issues in six months of using it. And did we mention VNC is FREE.
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Can't MC play RealAudio Lossless (.ra) files? If so, they would play in RealPlayer for the Mac.
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We are about to change our computer topology to a joint Apple/PC network. Unfortunately MC isn't available on OS X (yet?) so I have to run both iTunes and MC. Currently APE is the format in our system which iTunes can't read. So I was wondering to which lossless format I should convert the data base of music files so that both worlds can access the music. Any thoughts?
In my family we also use mixed environment of PCs, Macs, iPods, Linuxes and more. Here is how we do it.
The master library is managed by MC and stores audio files in FLAC format. This format was selected because it is lossless, quite efficient both in terms of space and processing power, not bound to or controlled by any particular vendor, free, open source, and supported by a number of software applications, hardware devices, and music services. Some artists actually publish their work using FLAC as their primary media. In my judgment (I’m the technology boss in my family) FLAC has the greatest chance to survive in the long term (one or two generations) of all non-proprietary lossless formats.
Regrettably and to my huge disappointment FLAC is not supported in Windows Media Player (PC), nor in iTunes (Mac and PC), and not on iPod. Why these guys cannot just take something that is good and free, and put it in is beyond my comprehension.
Anyhow, the FLAC files are on a read-only server network share accessible by all other computers in my home. Therefore the other PC’s also running MC can access them directly but cannot modify the files. However each user can maintain own subset of music, own ratings, own views and playlists because these things are stored in local MC library on each PC.
For the iTunes and iPods we convert all the FLAC files into MP3 format. We use 320 kbit/s CBR encodings which is the best you can do using commonly supported MP3 variant. The converted files are stored on another read-only server share. The conversion is done by a special application that compares the existence and modification times and then converts only new or modified files. It removes also no longer existing files and maintains a mirror of the master directory tree. It also appends cover images to converted MP3 files which, in FLAC version, are stored in separate files. This is so that these images are also shown in iTunes and on iPods.
iTunes running on Macs or PCs synchronize their libraries against this common MP3 library. This is done by simply using “add folder” command in iTunes and then selecting the read-only MP3 network share. The files that have been moved or removed in the master library appear with exclamation mark in iTunes and have to be deleted manually from iTunes. Some users prefer to copy the entire MP3 tree to their Mac (notebook) and then synchronize.
At last, iPods synchronize their content against their corresponding iTunes.
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mhakman -
Nice setup. Mine is similar, but I use .ape and do not have a separate .mp3 library. I've been letting MC convert to .mp3 on the fly while syncing the iPod. The problem is obviously time required and a few lacking features such as MC not updating the iPod .mp3 if cover art or lyrics change or are added.
What "special application" does the mirror of the FLAC and .mp3 libraries? Is it general enough for me to replace the FLAC decoder with Monkey Audio's APE decoder?
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... convert to .mp3 on the fly while syncing the iPod. The problem is obviously time required
The gogo MP3 encoder is faster.
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JimH - yea Alex B has stated this before with some good examples to back it up. But my understanding is that it gives slightly lower quality. I'm using VBR High w/fast option off at this point, and the quality is lacking versus burning a standard CD of the same music. I use my 60GB iPod Video basically as a transport, with line out to a pretty decent system. I can easily hear the difference. I'm currently considering changing to lossless on the iPod, but there doesn't appear to be a good APE-to-iPod lossless option at this time. (Yea I know about Rockbox, but I'd rather not get in to all that - it would be nice to have the "out of the box" system do what I want!)
Will MC support Apple Lossless encoding anytime soon?
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I'm using VBR High w/fast option off at this point, and the quality is lacking versus burning a standard CD of the same music. I use my 60GB iPod Video basically as a transport, with line out to a pretty decent system. I can easily hear the difference.
Which genres of music is this so noticeable ?
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The conversion is done by a special application that compares the existence and modification times and then converts only new or modified files. It removes also no longer existing files and maintains a mirror of the master directory tree. It also appends cover images to converted MP3 files which, in FLAC version, are stored in separate files. This is so that these images are also shown in iTunes and on iPods.
Wow,
this sounds very much like a solution for our home. Can you say more about which software you use to achieve the automatic conversion?
Thanks! :D
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Nice setup. Mine is similar, but I use .ape and do not have a separate .mp3 library. I've been letting MC convert to .mp3 on the fly while syncing the iPod. The problem is obviously time required and a few lacking features such as MC not updating the iPod .mp3 if cover art or lyrics change or are added.
My main reason for not syncing iPods directly from MC is our Mac users. They want to use iTunes on their Macs both for listening to music and for syncing their iPods. When introduced to MC running on a PC, they appreciate very much the visual aspects of MC’s Genre, Artist, Album views showing all the beautiful cover images and animated stacks etc. but they aren’t prepared to give up the environment that they know and love. However MC running under OS/X and integrated with First Row would do the trick, I think. Until then things are as they are.
Then, as you mention, there are few things that MC doesn’t do (or didn’t do in earlier versions) such as reconverting and resyncing when image or other attributes have changed or even when we edit an old recording.
What "special application" does the mirror of the FLAC and .mp3 libraries? Is it general enough for me to replace the FLAC decoder with Monkey Audio's APE decoder?
this sounds very much like a solution for our home. Can you say more about which software you use to achieve the automatic conversion?
This is a Java application that I wrote myself. Under the hood it controls dBpowerAMP (http://www.dbpoweramp.com) to do the conversion (paid version of dBpowerAMP is required due to MP3 encoding license) by using its automation features. The rest is my own Java code plus an experimental open source Java class library for manipulating contents (tags) of MP3 files. Because dBpowerAMP is used for conversion then it should be quite simple to support even APE format. Moving the images from APE to MP3 could be a problem if not supported by dBpowerAMP. Right now I know too little about APE but it should be doable. If you are really interested then I could give it try.
I wouldn’t mind sharing this app with others but you need to understand that I did this for my own use so there is no installation procedure (you have to place right files on right directories and set up things like PATH and CLASSPATH by yourself) and the program is a batch-oriented command line application which means no UI.
/Mikael
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If you are really interested then I could give it try.
Oh yes, very much so! dBpowerAMP is not very expensive, so if it is a workable solution, that would be worth it! :D
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Oh yes, very much so! dBpowerAMP is not very expensive, so if it is a workable solution, that would be worth it! :D
OK, I have prepared a distribution containing the files and documentation. It handles FLAC and MP3 to beginning with. You could give a try and if you like it then we could discuss the other format(s). Do we have a place on this forum to upload the zip file for you to download?
Regards/Mikael
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One solution for "mixed" environments may be to use open source Firefly (mt-daapd) as a music server... it will serve content to iTunes clients (and Front Row.) It supports MP3, AAC, OGG, FLAC, Apple Lossless, WMA, AIFF, WAV. (Also WMA Lossless, WMA Pro & WMA Voice... if the server runs on Windows.) For formats the clients are not compatible with, it on-the-fly transcodes to WAV. It can even run on a cheap NAS box, like the Linksys NSLU2. ;D
I can, for example, stream FLAC, OGG & WMA Lossless content to a Macintosh running iTunes... even though iTunes has no direct support for the formats.
But if your goal is to "control" the actual library from a Macintosh instead of just streaming it... you are out of luck.
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Thanks mhakman - I've been out of town and just saw your offer. Even though I did software for almost 10 years I just don't wish to mess with this at this time, but thanks again for the offer. If sapnho gets it working with APE I might use it though! Sorry for being in receive-only mode at this time - just too many other things going on.
hit_ny - all music, well except for some hard stuff and other grossly over-processed stuff. But it's obvious even with the majority of rock and pop, not to mention genres with more clarity. The difference in quality between CD and SACD/DVD-A is noticable as well, but not as much. And yes I know about hydrogen audio and all the testing but there's just no comparison for me.