Applicability to U.S. Citizens
The text of the law states that its "Purpose" is to "establish procedures governing the use of military commissions to try alien unlawful enemy combatants engaged in hostilities against the United States for violations of the law of war and other offenses triable by military commission." Legal and Constitutional scholar Robert A. Levy commented that the Act denies habeas rights only to aliens, and that U.S. citizens detained as "unlawful combatants" would still have habeas rights and could challenge their detention. [8] While formally opposed to the Act, Human Rights Watch has also concluded that the new law limits the scope of trials by military commissions to non-U.S. citizens including all legal aliens. [9]
... the Act denies habeas rights only to aliens, and that U.S. citizens detained as "unlawful combatants" would still have habeas rights and could challenge their detention.How thoughtful.
fact the USA government lied/did not tell when asked about the secret CIA flights.
Personally I think the USA should do everything to avoid terrorism, but they have to respect human rights.
Since there were no weapons of mass destruction it looks like we're fooled by the USA and GB.
Seeing the things going on in North Korea don't make my happy either.
... They were built prior to the Golf war. ...It's about time we went to war over something meaningful.
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will
I sure could use a vacation from this...
We are the Land of the Cheap Plastic Crap from Wallmart Reflecting the Blue-Light of the TV In Our Eyes.glynor, glynor, glynor....
The text of the law states that its "Purpose" is to "establish procedures governing the use of military commissions to try alien unlawful enemy combatants engaged in hostilities against the United States for violations of the law of war and other offenses triable by military commission." Legal and Constitutional scholar Robert A. Levy commented that the Act denies habeas rights only to aliens, and that U.S. citizens detained as "unlawful combatants" would still have habeas rights and could challenge their detention. [8] While formally opposed to the Act, Human Rights Watch has also concluded that the new law limits the scope of trials by military commissions to non-U.S. citizens including all legal aliens. [9]
Prolly cos it does not apply to them directly.
I am unclear of what rights Or laws have been violated?
Over 500 Chemical rounds have been found in Iraq
North Korea Likes It When People Jump When They Do Things. This Is Why Both Democrats When they Are In Control And Republicans When They Are In Control Play These Activities Down.
This government does not represent the country; it represents a segment of the country.
We're a lot of things at once, not all of them good -- or bad.
If I were Bush ( ;D) I would try to do a lot of good in the world with helping people, defeat hunger etc.
Every prosperous country in the world has a fairly free society
(have no illusions, if I refuse to pay my taxes for the welfare state, the govt will show up at my front door with guns drawn)
China? Nice economic growth, quite a few people there, still not doing so good on freedom. And it looks like a few american companies don't have that much trouble to operate over there.
Yes. And they'll probably call you unamerican because of the opinions you just voiced, and then say that, therefore, you qualify more as an alien. Then they'll label you an "illegal enemy combattant" because of these dangerously subversive opinions of yours. Then they'll jail you and torture you. All that with your tax money. Crazy uh? I always knew Bush was one of these commies in disguise. Thanks for giving rational substance to what I've felt in my guts for a long time.
Money doesn't have owners. Just spenders.
Are you suggesting that socialism is good?
We are, however, not what most Americans think we are.be afraid, be very afraid :-[
It's about time we went to war over something meaningful.
What you suggest cost $$$, where will those $$$ come from? The reality is that it will come from my taxes, confiscated from me at gunpoint by my govt.
It's about time we went to war over something meaningful.
built prior to the Golf war.
If you consider that what happened in Abu Ghraib
Golf vs. Gulf.
How thoughtful.Yea, that Wikipedia sentence was missing a few adjectives like "enemy" and "combatant." This Act does not apply to every alien.
That is another story, but sometimes you need to take different measures to accomplish a goal or task.
This type of war is confusing for many people and how to conduct it.
The military has a group that helps write after action reviews they are called "Lessons Learned". There will be many volumes added after we pull out of Iraq where we are not fighting a conventional army\task force, and some of the rules we think about in a "Normal" war does not apply.
hahaha personally, i think i would enjoy a golf war. actually make the game exciting for once!
Yea, that Wikipedia sentence was missing a few adjectives like "enemy" and "combatant." This Act does not apply to every alien.
It is very confusing to me. I still don't understand how you can wage a war on a concept (terror) and expect to win it with bombs and torture.
Lets say you are in the military. You are monitoring a terrorist hideout. You overhear one of them give orders to detonate a nuclear bomb in NYC tomorrow "following preestablished delivery methods" over a cell phone.This is a convincing argument if the need to know is absolutely critical. The problem, however, is that it is the "authorities" who decide what is "absolutely critical". And the standard begins to drift, and pretty soon reporters who won't give up their sources are tortured by the government.
We attack the hideout and capture the person who gave those orders. We ask nicely, he will not divulge details of when and how the bomb will be delivered. We plead, we beg, he will not tell us.
.....
I was taught the reason the US was the enemy of the USSR was because they were against freedom. They stopped people and asked for their papers. They encouraged children to inform on their parents. They spied on people, took people away never to be heard from again. Most of their people had to work very hard just to get by while the 'leaders' had a cushy life. They controled what you read, what you heard, what you watched on TV.
The US today has 'DUI Roadblocks' where not only do they check the driver to see if they have been drinking, they also run the IDs of everyone in the vehicle through NCIC, check insurance, etc. Go to the airport? We all know the drill.
Have a kid in grade school? Heard of the D.A.R.E. program? One nice thing the friendly police officer encourages is to tell someone if Mommy or Daddy smoke funny cigarettes or have white powder around the house.
Recent events tell about watching people in the US, about being held with no way to even find out what you are held for.
Get educated, find out what is happening in your city, state, country, world. Do it on your own. I don't need a Randi Rhodes or Ann Coulter to tell me what to think.
Would you hold him and set a public trial for him (somewhere other than NYC of course...) or would you break his legs, push wood slivers under his fingernails, etc to get the info to save the millions of people in NYC?
When the "old enemy" self-destructed
My father was a union organizer in the 30s.
Lots of people have lost their good jobs in the past 10 years or so. No more middle class factory work, but hey, WalMart and McDonalds are hiring. Gotta be competitive with China and India you know. Unless of course you are an executive or owner.
Somehow, they don't have to 'compete' with the wages and living conditions of their foreign counterparts.
Union became a 'bad' word sometime in the 80s. Politicians gutted the laws that allowed organizing and courts pretty much killed strikes. Since union membership is very low, even if you do mount a picket line, people will cross it, replacements will go and work your job.
So, you get WalMart wages, plant closings, hard times. People don't care much about others when they have to worry about themselves. Arresting terrorists? Too bad for them, I gotta get to the Burger Biggie for the night shift.
Papers are held by fewer and fewer companies, the same for radio and TV. In case anyone gets too far out of line, the FCC is watching for 'unacceptable' content and will make it painfully expensive to the offender.
Do I have an answer to it all? Sure. Go back to the 'smoke filled room' method of choosing candidates. It produced FDR, JFK, Nixon. The people who picked candidates lived in the neighborhoods, they had to see you every day. They knew what it took to be a politician, to make deals, to compromise now and then. The general public doesn't have a good track record since 'Popular vote' primaries came about.
Get educated, find out what is happening in your city, state, country, world. Do it on your own. I don't need a Randi Rhodes or Ann Coulter to tell me what to think.
The "segment of society" that JimH refers to is called a "majority". Getting a majority to vote for you is the only requirementOur President was "elected" in a 5 to 4 decision by the Supreme Court.
Do you really think that torture works on people who are ready to blow themselves up? In fact, I study myself magistrates applying torture in early modern Europe and quite evidently, these guys did not believe that torture was an efficient way of obtaining information. You should trust their judgment, they were experts with "hands-on" experience. They ended up using torture very rarely and mostly as a form of pre-emptive punishment.
Now, if you think that torture should be used as a form of revenge, fine, that's a different approach and we can discuss it.
Lets say you are in the military.
Our President was "elected" in a 5 to 4 decision by the Supreme Court.
I don't want to start this whole debate again, but are you suggesting that given the circumstances, or the task, or goal, the Geneva conventions did not apply to detainees in Abu Ghraib?
How in the world was he re-elected?I thought it was a patriotic reaction. Bush got 62.0 million votes out of 122.3 votes cast. Not exactly a mandate.
Liberty and music for all!
I thought it was a patriotic reaction. Bush got 62.0 million votes out of 122.3 votes cast. Not exactly a mandate.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/2004/popular_vote.html
If you consider that what happened in Abu Ghraib (and I'm not even considering the secret interrogations in secret prisons since they are secret) is not an "outrage upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment," then yes, no right or law has been violated. As Bush said himself, he's not too sure what "human dignity" means. I wish he had clearer ideas about the question (because of what I said above about how who's in charge matters).I think every country democratic or not that has had to deal with terrorism or insurgents is guilty of this. I was reading an article by Eric Margolis some time back and he called it the inevitable brutalising that occurs after strike, counter-strike etc...ie conflict does strange things to otherwise civilised people.
Good. Now let's find this uranium from Nigeria.That's Niger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger). Say that with a french accent as they once ruled over it, very helpful with keepiing them the only country in the world at nearly 80% nuclear energy powered.
We must acknowledge that the world has changed after 9/11.I hear this so many times and even lived through it, but for some reason why is this just not another terrorist attack that has happened (arguably not with the same method & result) anywhere else ?
Union became a 'bad' word sometime in the 80s. Politicians gutted the laws that allowed organizing and courts pretty much killed strikes. Since union membership is very low, even if you do mount a picket line, people will cross it, replacements will go and work your job.Union is a very common word in NYC. Transport workers did strike earlier in the year.
When the "old enemy" self-destructed
Are you suggesting it wasn't Reagan who won the cold war?
I wish the govt would get out of the marketplace, get out of regulating the money supply and get out of regulating my life and redistributing my income (nothing in the Constiution about that now is there...)Then it becomes the ppl vs. the corporates.
North Korea Likes It When People Jump When They Do Things. This Is Why Both Democrats When they Are In Control And Republicans When They Are In Control Play These Activities Down.Only reason N.Korea still exists when its biggest sponsor went bankrupt over a decade ago is that its the best & cheapest outcome for its neighbours...and they know this :)
...We Are Fighting Terrorists and they deserve no respect.
That's Niger. Say that with a french accent as they once ruled over it, very helpful with keepiing them the only country in the world at nearly 80% nuclear energy powered.
In any case, shouldn't they be thankful and glad they don't depend too much on oil today?Certainly no middle-eastern adventures required, coupled with nuclear arms, gives them ammo to tell more powerful entities where to go.
every human (terrorist or otherwise) deserves respect for the very simple fact that he/she is human.
I can not see giving anyone that kills humans by cutting of heads, body parts, Blowing people up and degrading females any respect what so ever. Or anyone who kills for no apparent reason.
Just because your human does not mean you should get respect, respect is earned.
The liberals never ask this question, but I do.
AT WHOSE EXPENSE?
What you suggest cost $$$, where will those $$$ come from?
respect is earned
Or anyone who kills for no apparent reason
cutting of heads, body parts, Blowing people
it doesn't say "we're fighting in the name of freedom"
this is nothing new, they have been doing this for years (before we were born)
And since it was Secret CIA flights, they could not be Secret if they told anyone. People should assume all countries spy on each other. Just as we (all governments) have done for years even past the cold war.
I am unclear of what rights Or laws have been violated?
For your info Over 500 Chemical rounds have been found in Iraq. I am not sure why It surprises people saddam lied about there chemical weapons. The only problem with all of the chemical rounds was they were not new ones. They were built prior to the Golf war.
some of these rounds are the same ones we left at the ammo depot when we pulled back from the depot in 1991.?
I spent 2 years guarding the DMZ, the north Koreans like to play a bunch of punk games on the DMZ (sometimes daily). Most of these things you will never hear about in the news. I am not saying they could not attack South Korea But if you knew what actually goes on North Of The Imjin River At Taesong-dong, Guard Post Collier, Guard Post Oullette, Camp Bonifas and Kichong-dong.
Noth Korea And South Korea Both Play The Games. My Guards Are Taller Than Your Gaurds. My Flag Is Bigger Than Your Flag. My Flag Is Taller Than Your Flag.
Both Of Them Black Market Across The Border With All Activities Viewed By Night Vision Cameras On The DMZ Viewable At Camp Bonifas "Mocka TOC" (A Underground Security Bunker).
North Korea Likes It When People Jump When They Do Things. This Is Why Both Democrats When they Are In Control And Republicans When They Are In Control Play These Activities Down.
Remember The Song "Games People Play", In This Case It Is Called Politicking.
I don't want to turn into a towering fire of libertarian rage, but... We Are Not What You Think. We Are Not The Land Of The Free.
We are the Land of the Cheap Plastic Crap from Wallmart Reflecting the Blue-Light of the TV In Our Eyes.
I hope your SUV floats.
take the terrorists shopping at Walmart, I'm sure it will be torture to them.Given the low standards some people have as to what constitutes torture, you're probably right.
The liberals never ask this question, but I do.
AT WHOSE EXPENSE?
What you suggest cost $$$, where will those $$$ come from? The reality is that it will come from my taxes, confiscated from me at gunpoint by my govt. I don't see that pointing a gun to my head is "helping people", it's not helping me. Nor do I want my govt to have as it's main goal to redistribute income.
Read the 1960 Democrat party platform, OMG, they espouse total socialism and its only gotten worse since then. Read the white paper released by the pope in 1966. He says we have an obligation to turn over the result of our production to the "needy", but we never get to ask any questions about their form of govt or work ethic.
Our country started out as the most free country in the world. And over time, the statists and socialists have hacked away at our freedom. And now the democrats openly talk about the 'common good' which impliles that their def of the 'common good' overrides my freedom and my right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness. No one has any right to the results of my production without my concent, but our govt takes it from my anyway, bu force. (have no illusions, if I refuse to pay my taxes for the welfare state, the govt will show up at my front door with guns drawn).
The Republicans have sold out to the marxist theory too, but not as far as the Democrats.
If we or Bush or anyone wants to "help people" and "defeat hunger" it will not be done by giving away food or $$$, that is a never ending, ever growing "obligation".
If we promote freedom and free market govt's, then those countries will naturally create the economic environment where they will prosper. Capitalism works. Every prosperous country in the world has a fairly free society, and the poor needy countries have socialist welfare state govts. See a connection?