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More => Old Versions => Media Center 12 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: JONCAT on January 27, 2008, 02:26:10 pm

Title: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: JONCAT on January 27, 2008, 02:26:10 pm

I have two laptops running Vista Ultimate x86 (an x61 tablet & Inspiron 1521) and on both MC system volume can't control the Vista volume via the mixer. I assume it's a change that MC hasn't been able to accommodate yet. It would be nice if this could be fixed, if reasonably possible.

DC

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: StFeder on January 29, 2008, 04:01:32 am

Yes, it indeed is a bit strange. If "system" is selected for the volume slider, it just changes the vista volume for MC seperated (not the master volume slider). If the volume slider is set to internal, it controls just an internal MC Volume (as expected).

So, if you set to internal, there are three volume controls within vista! Master Volume, MC-Apllication Volume (via Vista Mixer) and the internal (audio-only) MC Volume.

So up to now it works like this:

MC	|	Vista
-----------------------------------		-----------------------------------
System Volume	|	Application Volume
Internal Volume (Audio only)	|	---
---	|	Vista Master Volume

I'd like to have it looking like this ;):

MC	|	Vista
-----------------------------------		-----------------------------------
System Volume	|	Vista Master Volume
Internal Volume (Audio only)	|	Application Volume

This would bring two things with it: system volume slider would again change the system volume (as expected I think) and the internal volume slider would not be for audio only any more, but for all sounds of MC (all audio files, all video files, MC programm sounds).

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: JONCAT on January 29, 2008, 08:12:00 am

No doubt Vista mucked things up. Using Airfoil is particularly frustrating now; quikc volume changes or mutes aren't possiblewhen in MC. On XP you can tie MC System volume to Airfoil which is also tethered to System volume.

DC

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: p7389 on January 29, 2008, 10:35:12 am

Quote from: StFeder on January 29, 2008, 04:01:32 am

I'd like to have it looking like this ;):

MC	|	Vista
-----------------------------------		-----------------------------------
System Volume	|	Vista Master Volume
Internal Volume (Audio only)	|	Application Volume

This would bring two things with it: system volume slider would again change the system volume (as expected I think) and the internal volume slider would not be for audio only any more, but for all sounds of MC (all audio files, all video files, MC programm sounds).

I agree.

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: StFeder on February 03, 2008, 07:20:55 am

bump

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: p7389 on February 25, 2008, 03:13:52 pm

Any progress on this?

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: StFeder on June 16, 2008, 07:17:42 am

bump

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Mr ChriZ on June 16, 2008, 07:38:09 am

+1

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: JONCAT on June 16, 2008, 09:17:02 am

I forgot to post on this over the weekend but it was on my mind too

DC

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Matt on June 16, 2008, 10:29:57 am

This is a Vista feature.  Programs aren't supposed to (or even easily able to) control the master system volume.

I don't see any reason for JRiver to fight Microsoft on this one.

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: StFeder on June 16, 2008, 11:35:14 am

Quote from: Matt on June 16, 2008, 10:29:57 am

I don't see any reason for JRiver to fight Microsoft on this one.

I think I gave a reason for this: It's not very handy to have three volume settings to be controled!

Quote from: StFeder on January 29, 2008, 04:01:32 am

So, if you set to internal, there are three volume controls within vista! Master Volume, MC-Apllication Volume (via Vista Mixer) and the internal (audio-only) MC Volume.

Here is a 2nd reason: If I use a Win MCE Remote Control with J River MC/MJ and adjust the volume using this I'll change the internal (or MC/MJ program) volume if MC has the focus. If MC loses focus I'll control the vista master volume. Also not very handy. Using XP I was able to avert this by setting the slider in MC to "System Volume".

So in my opinion there are at least two reasons! But I also get what you say. It's not you who don't want to controll the master volume, it's Microsoft "forcing" you to not do this... So I will not go on bother you for things Microsoft botched ;)

Only one question left: is there any reason to have "internal volume" within vista? The application volume (system volume in MC) no more effects the system so maybe internal volume can be kicked under vista? Or do I miss the efficiency of this??

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Mr ChriZ on June 16, 2008, 12:07:07 pm

I think if all else, it should be relabeled under Vista, and cut down to just
Media Center Volume.

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Matt on June 16, 2008, 12:08:50 pm

Quote

I think I gave a reason for this: It's not very handy to have three volume settings to be controled!

I agree.  Vista added more pollution to the audio chain instead of less.

Quote from: StFeder on June 16, 2008, 11:35:14 am

Only one question left: is there any reason to have "internal volume" within vista? The application volume (system volume in MC) no more effects the system so maybe internal volume can be kicked under vista? Or do I miss the efficiency of this??

It's 32-bit and it works with line-out style cards that have no system volume.  Some of the best soundcards have no system volume so that you get a bit-perfect signal with no system interference.

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: StFeder on June 16, 2008, 12:40:13 pm

Quote from: Matt on June 16, 2008, 12:08:50 pm

It's 32-bit and it works with line-out style cards that have no system volume.  Some of the best soundcards have no system volume so that you get a bit-perfect signal with no system interference.

For me there's no reason left to bump this topic here again! Thanks for making your position clear! I got it and see why everything is as it is.

Perhaps I'll look for a Microsoft Board where I can talk to windows-developers (as we can do this here).

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Alex B on June 16, 2008, 01:35:04 pm

Quote from: StFeder

Quote

Only one question left: is there any reason to have "internal volume" within vista? The application volume (system volume in MC) no more effects the system so maybe internal volume can be kicked under vista? Or do I miss the efficiency of this??

Quote from: Matt on June 16, 2008, 12:08:50 pm

It's 32-bit and it works with line-out style cards that have no system volume.  Some of the best soundcards have no system volume so that you get a bit-perfect signal with no system interference.

Exactly. For instance, MC's internal volume is the only available volume adjustment with the ASIO playback mode (ASIO bypasses the system mixer). It is also useful with DirectShow when the audio stream may be rerouted after the filter chain to MC's internal DSP and it can be used with the Disk Writer output mode.

I think the only possible solution would be to add a third mode that would adjust the master volume on Vista. I did some googling and it seems that there a ways to access Vista's main system volume. Here are some links:
http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418069
http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2007/03/06/how-do-i-change-the-master-volume-in-windows-vista.aspx
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1287868&SiteID=1

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Matt on June 18, 2008, 01:44:55 pm

In build 516 and later (available later this week):
NEW: Vista allows "Application Volume", "Internal Volume" or "System Volume" control. (Menu > Player > Volume)

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: StFeder on June 18, 2008, 07:51:58 pm

 :o It's just impressing what you guys do!!

Thank you!!

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Frobozz on June 19, 2008, 02:06:26 am

Awesome!   I like that.  :)
Seems like a sensible way to divvy up the volume controls given the way Vista does things.

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Mr ChriZ on June 19, 2008, 04:42:40 am

Cheers guys!  :)

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: JONCAT on June 20, 2008, 03:43:05 pm

I hadn't followed the recent updates here, and was going to post some experiences.

WMP, VLC, and Foobar allow me to use the volume controls on my laptop to control system volume while app volume stays the same (Vista ultimate)

Airfoil has a specific option to link to system volume.

Looking forward to the fix.

DC

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: mesue on November 02, 2008, 09:43:11 am

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I am interested in what volume option other Vista users are using.

I generally leave MC volume alone and use the knob on my speakers or headphones to adjust volume. But when I am listening to music and a system sound comes through the speakers, the music volume is temporarily lowered and then it seems to gradually come back to where it was. It's very odd. I thought one of those volume options might change this behavior, but I've tried them all and it seems to do the same thing on all of them.

I guess what I am getting at is... does anyone know the optimal settings to have Windows sounds at a low volume but not change my music volume when a system sound occurs?

Title: Re: MC system volume not applicable to Vista
Post by: Frobozz on November 04, 2008, 07:22:26 pm

Quote from: mesue on November 02, 2008, 09:43:11 am

I guess what I am getting at is... does anyone know the optimal settings to have Windows sounds at a low volume but not change my music volume when a system sound occurs?

My solution is to have two sound cards/devices.  One sound card for music and the other sound card set as the default for system sounds and the like.  I can mute everything on the non-music sound card when music is playing.  My music never gets mixed with system sounds.