INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 13 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: cncb on October 21, 2008, 10:08:11 pm
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I know photo handling changes isn't on the feature list for 13 but I hope you will still consider these anyways. These simple changes (simple ideas not implementation) would go a long way to help improve using MC for photos in my household. Thanks.
1) Single Photo View (sorry, yes this again): It would be great to have a small icon on the thumbnail or maybe add another link under the thumbnail (next to Play,Tag,Menu) to take you to the single photo view and then something similar to take you back to thumbnails. I know you can currently select an image and then right-click the slider to do this but this is not terribly convenient or intuitive in my opinion.
2) "Edit Image" Menu Item: A way to change this to an external program would be great. I know you can do a "Send To" but it would be nice for this to always be accessible at the same place in the root menu.
3) "Match All", "Match Any" Control: A toolbar button or something to toggle this would be ideal. It is hard to find buried down in the view setup and not something that can be done quickly. I often select 2 members of my family (from keywords) and want to quickly locate photos that contain both of them, for example.
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1) Single Photo View (sorry, yes this again): It would be great to have a small icon on the thumbnail or maybe add another link under the thumbnail (next to Play,Tag,Menu) to take you to the single photo view and then something similar to take you back to thumbnails. I know you can currently select an image and then right-click the slider to do this but this is not terribly convenient or intuitive in my opinion.
Why doesn't a double click on the image work for you? This toggles a full screen image. It also returns to the thumbnail view.
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Why doesn't a double click on the image work for you? This toggles a full screen image. It also returns to the thumbnail view.
The problem with this for us is that neither the Library Tools (delete from library, edit image, etc.) nor the Panes are available in Display View or Playing Now. We mainly use a Keywords view set up for images and like to scroll through single images and be able to tag, delete them, etc. We also like to quickly go back and forth between the thumbnails and single image view. The functionality is already there it just would be nice to have a convenient shortcut near the thumbnail itself to jump to the single photo view.
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He's right, but it's really hard to explain without spending a lot of time with an image workflow. With music and video, the time spent "watching/viewing/playing" the media is usually quite a while. With images, you jump between files, and between thumbnails and fullscreen, often very quickly (almost twitchy!)
For focused tagging you often need to have a whole bunch of photos in view at once (thumbnails) but then flick to full size to check a detail, people for example. Ideally, the tag AW is viewable throughout the whole process. We can drag the slider to maximum, and drag it back again, this is true, but it takes time. My we're an impatient lot here aren't we? ;)
As cncb has mentioned, the functionality for all he has suggested is in there... it's just about making it accessible. These aren't the "will sell more copies of MC" features you've requested, that's for sure, but they do cater for a specific workflow... Maybe we'll get a look in when all the new music and video/TV features are done?
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He's right, but it's really hard to explain without spending a lot of time with an image workflow. With music and video, the time spent "watching/viewing/playing" the media is usually quite a while. With images, you jump between files, and between thumbnails and
I've seen this sort of comment enough times that I know the problem is real, but I still don't get why it doesn't work well now. I use MC for photos as much as anything, and it works well for me.
If I have several photos to compare, I select them and play them in a slide show. When I get the one I want to delete, I stop, hit escape or double click, check that the play icon is still on that one, and press del.
Right click options also allow a delete. I usually delete the obvious duds by selecting them as a set, then pressing del or using right click/delete. Same for rotate. Similar for tagging.
I suspect that you're used to the interface of another photo management program and miss something from it. What program do you like?
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If I have several photos to compare, I select them and play them in a slide show. When I get the one I want to delete, I stop, hit escape or double click, check that the play icon is still on that one, and press del.
Right click options also allow a delete. I usually delete the obvious duds by selecting them as a set, then pressing del or using right click/delete. Same for rotate. Similar for tagging.
I suspect that you're used to the interface of another photo management program and miss something from it. What program do you like?
I guess it is a question of convenience. Having to escape out of display view and then find the photo you are currently playing to select it and tag, delete, etc. is not very convenient (for me it does not scroll to the currently playing image in the previous view and it looks like all operations are performed on the currently selected image not the one with the playing icon).
We previously used Photoshop Elements which is pretty easy to use. The things we like are double-click an image to go to a single photo view, click back arrow to go back to thumbnails. The tags (keywords) are always accessible and can be dragged to photos in either view. I have very close to the same behavior in MC just without a quick way to jump between thumbnail and single photo views.
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I use MC for photos as much as anything, and it works well for me.
So do I! It works very well actually, and I choose to use it over most premier image management programs because it does what it does so well.
I thought about this again this morning... I think a lot of the reason people have requested some changes here has to do with how MC handles "clicking" and "double-clicking" and what it does to the files for each... In many programs (actually, the only ones I have any real experience with are adobe's software: elements, lightroom etc and google's picasa) there is no real concept of "playback". A file is just a file, and it may be opened/viewed/enlarged/edited.
In MC, if I double click a photo, it sends the list of photos to playing now, opens display view and plays them as a slideshow. This is modeled on behaviour for video and audio. And it works well in many ways. It makes creating a slideshow really easy, for a start and is great for flicking through/navigating your photos.
I think the problem (if there is a problem) is that there is no link between what is "selected" and what is being "Played". Say I'm flicking through my photos (next button, arrow key) in playback mode and I get to a photo I want to change a tag entry for. I can double click/escape/stop to get back to my main view. But now I have to look for the file that's "playing now" before I can do anything to it. Ie playback is not linked to selection.
It's an old thread, and I know it's been read before, but one possible solution is detailed here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=45759.0 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=45759.0)
Keep the current playback implementation, but have an image "manipulation" mode. There are a few pics of the way Picasa does it in that thread. Lightroom provides similar functionality, but more features, of course. I can put up some screenshots if you've never used lightroom.
We are, of course, comparing MC to some of the big hitters in image management, so that mightn't be fair... but nevertheless this is a direction that might be pursued at some point :)
Cheers
Chris
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We are, of course, comparing MC to some of the big hitters in image management, so that mightn't be fair... but nevertheless this is a direction that might be pursued at some point :)
Oh. It's fair. No worries. Thanks for the details.
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Why doesn't a double click on the image work for you? This toggles a full screen image. It also returns to the thumbnail view.
I don't ever use this when working with images. It's far too cumbersome.
Also, I'm pretty sure that having the play icon over a thumbnail is not enough to have file/tagging operations performed on that file, it must be the selected file in the list before that happens, surely?
Which is why I don't use it.
There's no access to tagging commands from the display, so, double click to return to thumbnail view and the original file double clicked to begin 'playback' is still selected, cue much scrolling to locate the file needed in the list, select it, tag it, double click to go back to full screen and repeat. Too much pain.
Other thoughts...- That said, I find the 'fit to window' slider setting fits the bill 99% of the time, but that may be because I use a 1650 x 1080 widescreen monitor. The 1% of the time 'fit to window' lets me down is when I want to zoom in closer, but can't. Imagine being able to go into 'fit to window' mode, then zoom deep into the image, and be able to drag the zoomed image around in order to see different areas of it at that zoom level.
- When I'm working with images in 'fit to window' mode, I always hide the tree, and I have one pane, Keywords, down the left side...
(http://www.theganghut.co.uk/pics/ia/13/picturepreviewt.jpg) (http://www.theganghut.co.uk/pics/ia/13/picturepreview.jpg)
It's a long shot, I know, but, I'd really like to have MC hide the tree for me when I select this view. 3) "Match All", "Match Any" Control: A toolbar button or something to toggle this would be ideal. It is hard to find buried down in the view setup and not something that can be done quickly. I often select 2 members of my family (from keywords) and want to quickly locate photos that contain both of them, for example.
A while back, I suggested putting a toggle somewhere in the pane itself, but really, anywhere up front would do as it's a shame to have an option like that buried so deep inside 'customise view'- I'm also absolutely convinced that there is absolutely no need for the image to "roll up" and show the "Play - Tag - Menu" options when in 'fit to window' mode. Especially 'Menu'... I mean, how redundant is that when exactly the same thing is available via a simple right click on the image. In 'fit to window' mode, I'm of the opinion that the 'roll up' thing should be disabled. It's rather distracting at that size and takes away from the image being previewed.
-marko
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I'm glad this topic is being discussed again. I have been waiting for a year now to switch all my photos to MC but just haven't done it yet because it's not as easy as other programs. It's great for the occasional adding of photos to upload to Pix01 and so forth, but not to organize and manage my photos yet.
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Say I'm flicking through my photos (next button, arrow key) in playback mode and I get to a photo I want to change a tag entry for. I can double click/escape/stop to get back to my main view. But now I have to look for the file that's "playing now" before I can do anything to it. Ie playback is not linked to selection.
IMHO that's the main pain in using MC for photos.
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IMHO that's the main pain in using MC for photos.
guess i should tell you, but zonealarm sees interfree.it as a spy site, your avatar is blocked and i always get popups when i open a thread where you posted in.
this is as long as i can remember.
:)
gab
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interfree.it appears to be a legitimate internet service provider. Maybe ZoneAlarm should not block the complete domain.
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interfree.it appears to be a legitimate internet service provider. Maybe ZoneAlarm should not block the complete domain.
yes i know. i dont work for zonealarm. there are two things though. first i just thought robydago should just know it, and i can imagine how peolpe react when they visit this forum and they get the message that there is a spy site?
what to do? :-\
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We could ask roby to go stand in a corner....
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We could ask roby to go stand in a corner....
nah, unless they have free beer and salted peanuts in that corner.
well, i would love to host the image for roby, right beside my cat. i feel guilty now.. :(
I'm glad this topic is being discussed again.
yes.. and in this context, a question. how to use the people tag... i mean, would it not be nice if when you tag people they stay in the order you put them in, like they are in the picture... or maybe something that you can attach a name to a spot in the picture..
:)
gab
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nah, unless they have free beer and salted peanuts in that corner.
I plan to go stand in that corner in about an hour and a half.
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Next preview:
Changed: When starting playback from a list with double-click or the "Play" thumbnail link, the list will track the playing file until the user manually makes a new selection.
The net effect is that you'll come right back to the thumbnail of the image you viewed last if you double-click for full screen, move between images, then return.
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Poor roby :(
Interesting observation: All bar two of us on this thread have some manner of animal as our avatar. I believe mine is the best, however ;)
The net effect is that you'll come right back to the thumbnail of the image you viewed last if you double-click for full screen, move between images, then return.
That seems like a good change, Matt. Will be keen to try it out.
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Would it be possible to add an option for images only where instead of playing the file(s) a double-click would toggle between the "single photo mode" in the current view and thumbnails (the same as right-clicking the slider does now)? So, double-click a thumbnail to "zoom in" and double-click the single photo to "zoom out". This shortcut would be ideal for me as I don't ever see using the Display View for this purpose since it requires you to exit out of it to do any (pane) tagging or even delete a photo.
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[...]
yes.. and in this context, a question. how to use the people tag... i mean, would it not be nice if when you tag people they stay in the order you put them in, like they are in the picture... or maybe something that you can attach a name to a spot in the picture..
:)
gab
Yup, this is the main reason why I havent tagged any of my photos yet.
As far as I can see, there is no other solution on the market which does this with a good GUI and stores the data in IPTC (at least the "people" part).
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A nice feature would be face tagging, such that the order of the people in the list is automatically based on a left to right system -- ie the list of people you see in the people tag is in the order that the face "frames" are tagged in the photo. When you add a "frame" MC knows where to add the new entry in the list.
...but we're getting ahead of ourselves.
Would it be possible to add an option for images only where instead of playing the file(s) a double-click would toggle between the "single photo mode" in the current view and thumbnails (the same as right-clicking the slider does now)?
Hmmm sometimes it's also nice to be able to jump to fullscreen quickly though. Is there a way to please both camps?
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A nice feature would be face tagging, such that the order of the people in the list is automatically based on a left to right system -- ie the list of people you see in the people tag is in the order that the face "frames" are tagged in the photo. When you add a "frame" MC knows where to add the new entry in the list.
[..]
That's a good idea because you're stcking to the standards (IPTC) while, at the same time, the data has some sensible "order information". Face tagging data (x,y info etc.) could then be kept in "database only" tags.
I think it's sensible that MC primarily sticks to / focuses on management (organize, playback) for images. That's what most of us are using MC for wrt. videos, audio, and documents anyways, isn't it?
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Hmmm sometimes it's also nice to be able to jump to fullscreen quickly though. Is there a way to please both camps?
Well, I did suggest earlier in this thread an icon near the thumbnail or another hyperlink below it. Any of these would work for me - I'm just trying to throw ideas out there until something sticks...
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Next preview:
Changed: When starting playback from a list with double-click or the "Play" thumbnail link, the list will track the playing file until the user manually makes a new selection.
The net effect is that you'll come right back to the thumbnail of the image you viewed last if you double-click for full screen, move between images, then return.
thanks a lot!!! browsing\tagging my photos is now way faster!
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The latest change makes it easier, but I'm seeing inconsistencies. I double click to few single file, page up or down. Then if I esc back the last file is selected. But if I double click back the latest file is only selected some of the time. Most of the time no file is selected.
Anyone else seeing this??
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Seems to work fine at home on my Vista system. At work I have XP. ?
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Next preview:
Changed: When starting playback from a list with double-click or the "Play" thumbnail link, the list will track the playing file until the user manually makes a new selection.
The net effect is that you'll come right back to the thumbnail of the image you viewed last if you double-click for full screen, move between images, then return.
I hadnt noticed that change. It kind of depends on having the playback options set to "Jump to display view" though doesnt it. Mine arent, and so when I hit "back" to leave playing now, I end up at the top of the list of photos in my viewscheme.
The next thing we need is a more visual way to compare photos. Using page up/down to flick between them is ok if you know the shorcuts. Using the fast forward and rewind buttons just feels wrong (I know it's illogical but it does). Other ideas include:
*Overlay arrows on either side of the photo
*Click on the left side of the photo to go to the previous one. Right side to go to the next.
*Mouse gestures
*Arrow keys
I think arrow keys are a given. They should already work. This also gives me another chance to ask for the arrow key behavior to change. At the moment when you hit the rightmost thumbnail in the list, hitting "right" again does nothing. You have to navigate through the list in snake like way. It's pretty frustrating. And even worse when you are viewing a 2-up (zoomed in) view of the list. You get totally lost.
I like the idea of using overlay arrows. This could be gradually expanded to include extra overlay controls:
"expand/collapse stack"
"2-up" view
"3-up" view"
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It kind of depends on having the playback options set to "Jump to display view" though doesnt it. Mine arent.
Why do you do that? I don't think showing Playing Now is ever good for images (and we don't by default).
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I set it that way because i was having problems with some video file playback. MC would become unresponsive when playing some HD home video, and I wanted a quick way to be able to stop the video (I needed playing controls that were always visible).
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I've seen this sort of comment enough times that I know the problem is real, but I still don't get why it doesn't work well now. I use MC for photos as much as anything, and it works well for me.
Double-clicking a thumbnail only makes the image appear in the Display window at the lower left for me.
The only way I have found to see a full-size image is to right-click the thumbnail and select Edit Image.
Any ideas?
Using version 12.0.534.
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Skeezix, like me you need to change your "play" options. click ”tools>options>general" and change "jump on play" to "display view (if it has a display)"
Matt I think the "behavior" options would be better in "Playback" than the current "General".
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Changed: When starting playback from a list with double-click or the "Play" thumbnail link, the list will track the playing file until the user manually makes a new selection.
The net effect is that you'll come right back to the thumbnail of the image you viewed last if you double-click for full screen, move between images, then return.
It works as expected if I'm not playing anything.
If I'm playing some songs (or evens if a song it's paused) in a Playing now tab, it's different: when from a thumbnail image view tab I double click to get to full view and then I double click again to get back to thumbnail view, I end up in the Playing now tab instead.
Any reason for this behaviour? Is there an MC option to change it?
Thanks.