INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 13 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: CGW on October 31, 2008, 06:09:18 pm
-
I have spent a lot of time getting my work system to sound the best it can.
Windows XP Pro
Media Center 11 and 13 using ASIO with channel offset 2
RME HDSP 9632 digital AES XLR
Cary 306/200 CD player used as a DAC
McIntosh MA6900 integrated amp
Monitor Audio GR10 speakers
SVS SB12-Plus subwoofer
I just updated to Media Center 13 from Media Center 11 and I now hear a bit more harshness to my music. It looks like Media Center 11 has also somehow been changed. Did the sound processing through Windows XP somehow change with this install?
-
Try switching playback options from Direct Sound to Wave Out or vice versa in MC.
-
Media Center 11, 12, and 13 all have a 32-bit playback chain that's bit perfect using ASIO.
You might double-check DSP Studio settings to see if you are applying different effects.
-
I can pretty much always tell when I've got DSP effects enabled. There is always some added distortion or clipping added to loud signals. I use them with caution and quickly notice if I forget to disable them. Of course they are great when desired for interesting effects.
-
I am using ASIO. Direct Sound and Wave Out appeared to have the same problem, but I will do more testing tomorrow.
I made sure "DSP & output format" options were not selected. I just noticed that "Clip protection" was turned on. I will try disabling it at work tomorrow. I was very happy with version 11, but now version 11 sounds off too.
I will try upgrading to the latest RME drivers.
Any other suggestions?
-
Don't disable clip protection. You'll be sorry.
I noticed lately that MC will occasionally skip ~2 seconds of audio. Must be some issue with the playback engine. I'd say every hour or two, I notice this skipped section of audio.
-
Don't disable clip protection. You'll be sorry.
Why?
peter
-
I noticed lately that MC will occasionally skip ~2 seconds of audio. Must be some issue with the playback engine. I'd say every hour or two, I notice this skipped section of audio.
Hardware.
-
Why?
peter
Clip protection does nothing if the signal doesn't exceed 100%. The signal can not exceed 100% without effects applied.
If you are having sound quality issues, I think it is likely a hardware issue. Check drivers, driver configuration, etc.
-
It's not enough of a problem for me to spend time investigating but I'll keep that in mind. I haven't changed my hardware or driver since probably a year ago and I believe the issue started only in the past 6 months or so. It's tough to reproduce such an infrequent issue.
-
Clip protection is absolutely critical if you enable DSP effects. That's a more valid way to put it, yes. I just forgot you can disable clip protection outside of the DSP effects.
The DSP effects alter the music and when adding bass, it could produce a sound level so loud that it would over exceed the bit depth and get clipped off.
-
Don't disable clip protection. You'll be sorry.
I noticed lately that MC will occasionally skip ~2 seconds of audio. Must be some issue with the playback engine. I'd say every hour or two, I notice this skipped section of audio.
I recently dealt with an audio glitch that appeared once every several days of 6+ hour a day listening. Turning off System restore related backup activity, Windows update and other background activity appears to have banished the glitch. This was on a dedicated music PC where I wanted perfect playback and could strip down other activity. (I didn't hear the same glitch on a general purpose PC with lots of stuff running. But I was not as conscious of a very occasional problem either.)
This may or may not be related to the problem you mention.
Bill
-
Clip protection does nothing if the signal doesn't exceed 100%. The signal can not exceed 100% without effects applied.
If you are having sound quality issues, I think it is likely a hardware issue. Check drivers, driver configuration, etc.
I see. I always had it unchecked but it was not really necessary for bit perfect output. I have checked that the output is indeed bit perfect and it was...so no problems here...I actually now reroute mc's output directly to a slimserver roomcorrection dsp plugin...which also works flawlessly :)
peter
-
Hardware.
I've got a similar problem... sound drops out on my HDMI signal to the AV Receiver once every 30 minutes or so. I figured it was due to HDMI (which seems to be infamous for audio problems) and I haven't really had the patience to try and fix it.
But the real question... how could I go about troubleshooting? If it's hardware related, what resources can I monitor? Is it a buffer problem? Anyone know of utilities to monitor audio/video streams on the computer?
-
But the real question... how could I go about troubleshooting? If it's hardware related, what resources can I monitor? Is it a buffer problem? Anyone know of utilities to monitor audio/video streams on the computer?
I doubt it's a Media Center buffer issue.
Check to see if you can increase the internal buffer size of the card.
For example, my M-Audio switches to 256 samples every reboot. It can hiccup under system / PCI load unless I bump that number up.
-
I know what will have a buffer issue IF it is changed....
If someone increases the buffer and tries to use WASAPI the sampling rates will not sync fast enough and you will get an error telling you that the chosen sample rate is not supported....
-
I updated my sound card drivers, moved buffering to 1.5 seconds, and set overflow handling to none.
Things sound much better. I am still not sure if they sound as good as before.
I am still curious on the differences between version 11 and 13 with regard to sound processing because of the dramatic change that occurred. Does any one have any thoughts on why the sound quality changed after upgrading? (much more jitter??) Did the install modify the ASIO drivers used by by RME card?
-
We don't do ASIO drivers or modify them.
What do you mean by jitter?
I had a sound problem a few months ago that turned out to be a Windows issue with the hard disk. Windows had put it in PIO mode. Putting it back in DMA mode fixed it completely.
A virus checker that was checking every file or write to the library could also create problems.
There are a lot of strange things happening on Windows machines. Did you check the Weird Problems thread in my signature?
-
There was a harshness to the sound, especially in the high frequencies. I think the best way to describe it is an inconsistency with the notes. I believe that it is caused when jitter occurs with the digital stream going to the DAC. The bits are not timed well and this can be very audible with a good system setup. If it is slightly off listening fatigue can occur. Even the best DACs can be susceptible to jitter. My Lavry DA10 claimed to reduce jitter, but I still could hear it. My Cary 306/200s have very good DACs, but they also do not reclock the incoming bit stream to totally remove the issues.
I spent a lot of time trying different settings and different audio cards. The RME cards that I am currently using are used in the recording industry along with my Card Deluxe and the Lynx which I do not yet own. Trying other cards I have found that digital sources do not all sound equal. The professional cards have more hardware and rely on Windows less to get the bits out in a timely manner thus reducing jitter.
Does version 13 have a dedicated thread to getting the audio out? I hope the UI and the new features that have been added are not effecting the audio processing thread. Hopefully the UI threads are running at a lower priority than the audio processing.
-
Windows had put it in PIO mode. Putting it back in DMA mode fixed it completely.
This has caused me more problems over the years on various machines.
-
I feel that you may never be happy no matter how bit-perfect MC's output is.
I have been very happy with version 9 and 11 and I have been recommending it to all of my friends. I hope version 13 can serve me as well.
When the sound sounds right, it sounds great!