INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 14 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: marko on June 23, 2009, 03:26:44 am
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This thing has great potential.
I absolutely love that it zooms in with a scroll of the mouse wheel... how cool is that!!
Now, initial thoughts and observations:
- The preview window is not available in a 'panes and details' view. If you switch the view from thumbs to details, the preview remains, but if you navigate away, and return, the preview is gone.
- The thumbnail tooltip preview doesn't seem to have a place or purpose while the preview window is open. If the preview window is set at 50% of the screen size, the tooltip is sometimes (often) bigger than the preview anyway.
- I think the preview window would be more useful if it could be placed to the right of the file list rather than below it. Choice might be nice here. From left to right, this would allow us to have: The tag window | The Panes | A single column of small image thumbnails | The preview window. Panes down the left is, for me, a great way to set up an image viewscheme as it feels as though you can fit a lot more 'image' into the view, be it small thumbs or 'fit to window' mode. Problem here is, when you drag the preview window up, it also pushes the panes up, rendering them pretty much useless. A 'left to right' option would eliminate this problem.
- When zooming into an image, it would be better if it could zoom in on the area beneath the cursor
- If you're using the cursor keys to move along a row of thumbnails in the file list, when you get to the far right, you hit a brick wall. You need to back track to the far left and then press down to get to the next image. If you're at the end of a row and press right, the list should scroll the next line into view and place selection at the first image in this new row.
- When using tabs, the preview window is present in 'library browser' views of other media types, such as 'Artist thumbnails', and when expanded, it's just an inactive area of pure blackness!!
- I would expect to find some preview window options in "Customize View". At least "always open" or "always closed", and that it remembers its position on a 'per view scheme' basis.
- [NUDGE]Don't you think that the image preview looks wonderful without an irritating frame around it? ;) :) [/NUDGE]
-marko.
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I'll echo pretty much everything marko said...
I also have a couple of screens of some oddness in non-image views using thumbnails, including the "black screen of nothingness" and the mysterious "white screen with some little grey squares too" view. <- If these are new features, I've got dibs on the naming credit!
Apart from this, I like the feature a lot - it just needs to be integrated into the "customize view scheme" options a little bit I think
(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/7E547B99-5004-478D-A4AC-37AD672F51A4/MC14_Bug_Report_1/5623144070.jpg)
Click to enlarge. (http://www.pix01.com/gallery/7E547B99-5004-478D-A4AC-37AD672F51A4/MC14_Bug_Report_1/562314407_orig0.jpg)
(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/7E547B99-5004-478D-A4AC-37AD672F51A4/MC14_Bug_Report_1/5623144071.jpg)
Click to enlarge. (http://www.pix01.com/gallery/7E547B99-5004-478D-A4AC-37AD672F51A4/MC14_Bug_Report_1/562314407_orig1.jpg)
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I also have a couple of screens of some oddness in non-image views using thumbnails, including the "black screen of nothingness"
I saw the same thing in Audio.
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It could be useful to be able to detach a preview and move it onto a second screen.
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Like a separate "display view", specifically for images?
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ai
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- [NUDGE]Don't you think that the image preview looks wonderful without an irritating frame around it? ;) :) [/NUDGE]
I didn't have time to add the frame.
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What do I have to do to make my Preview window pane not all black?
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Wait for me to fix it.
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Ah, Ok. I see the caveat in Marko's post
# When using tabs, the preview window is present in 'library browser' views of other media types, such as 'Artist thumbnails', and when expanded, it's just an inactive area of pure blackness!!
which just happened to be my circumstances.
Thanks.
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It isn't very useful in "all media" views. (attachment #1). Perhaps it should be optional (in customize current view).
As others have said, the layout could be adjustable. For comparison, XnView provides several predefined layouts (attachment #2). When its preview is double-clicked it opens a big image view. The preview has also lots of right-click menu options. In addition you can switch to histogram and tag tabs in the same tabbed preview area.
If you are not familiar with XnView yet, here is the link (it is free): http://www.xnview.com/en/index.html. The most complete version is this: http://download3.xnview.com/XnView-win-full.exe. IMO, it is in many ways better than some commercial products.
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Really nice work on this. Seriously.
More thoughts?
- A double click on the preview currently does nothing. Perhaps it could close the preview window?
- MC does not remember the preview window state, per view, across sessions. I understand that you're not keen on MC remembering view layouts, but I feel that this would be useful. It can get quite tiresome to have to arrange a given view before using it, every time you open it.
- When using the Up/Down keys to move to the next / previous image, the list does not scroll to keep the selected file in view.
- When using the Up/Down keys to move to the next/previous image, the magnifying glass overlay does not show on the selected image, it's always one image behind the selection, though does jump to the selected image on mouse over.
- It would be great if, when zooming in, it could keep the area under the cursor centered. I keep expecting it do that already, and it's quite disorientating when it doesn't happen.
- It would be nice to have a way to zoom in, and pan the zoomed image, without using the mouse.
- In the screenshot below, the active tab is the leftmost tab, and as you can see, its label has vanished, leaving just the close button. Clicking 'Refresh' brings the label back. This happens regardless of tab position. (click to view full size image)
(http://www.theganghut.co.uk/pics/ia/14/bugs/imagepreviewt.jpg) (http://www.theganghut.co.uk/pics/ia/14/bugs/imagepreview.jpg)
Thank you so much too, for not slapping a frame around the preview image!
-marko
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- A double click on the preview currently does nothing. Perhaps it could close the preview window?
- MC does not remember the preview window state, per view, across sessions. I understand that you're not keen on MC remembering view layouts, but I feel that this would be useful. It can get quite tiresome to have to arrange a given view before using it, every time you open it.
+1
- When using the Up/Down keys to move to the next/previous image, the magnifying glass overlay does not show on the selected image, it's always one image behind the selection, though does jump to the selected image on mouse over.
Same is true with Left/Right keys.
Also as marko previously said:
- If you're using the cursor keys to move along a row of thumbnails in the file list, when you get to the far right, you hit a brick wall. You need to back track to the far left and then press down to get to the next image. If you're at the end of a row and press right, the list should scroll the next line into view and place selection at the first image in this new row.
This is really needed to make it usable.
Also:
- When the image preview window is open, if the right side is dragged to see more/less thumbnails visible in a row, the image preview should resize accordingly. If another image is clicked it will size correctly in the new preview window width.
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It would be nice to have a way to zoom in, and pan the zoomed image, without using the mouse.
My laptop doesn't have a mouse wheel. I actually have a spare mouse for it, but it is an old three button mouse without a wheel. I am going to buy a couple of new mice next time I visit a computer store, but keyboard shortcuts for zooming would be nice to have. Many programs use ctrl + and ctrl -, but in MC these adjust the volume slider. Perhaps just + and - could work.
EDIT
I just remembered that in the main display + and - already work so they would be the logical choice.
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Well, there is more to come.
- Keyboard controls.
- Double click doing something.
- Some tools available.
- Multiple images in the preview window.
- Side by each comparisons.
- Right click menu additions.
- Maybe simple tagging (Stars?) and trashing.
- Better layout.
- Frames.
- ...
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Just a quick mockup. I copied the tabs from XnView to MC. It would be quite neat. (It's animated, 3 x 5 s.)
EDIT
I added the grey background to the actual preview window. It would be less dominant than white.
(Is there a better adjective than "dominant" for a visually overwhelming color or element?)
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Just a quick mockup. I copied the tabs from XnView to MC. It would be quite neat. (It's animated, 3 x 5 s.)
I added the grey background to the actual preview window. It would be less dominant than white.
(Is there a better adjective than "dominant" for a visually overwhelming color or element?)
Alex,
I don't think anyone has ever used the word, "adjective", before on this forum. ;)
"Dominant" is a very good word. In your use case, "prominent" would also work. Less "bold" or "would be more subtle than white" would also work.
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Just a quick mockup. I copied the tabs from XnView to MC. It would be quite neat. (It's animated, 3 x 5 s.)
I like it. Of course editing in the various tabs like IPTC would be required. Along with DarkPenguin's list of what's to come, this is getting very promising!
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Well, there is more to come.
- Keyboard controls.
- Double click doing something.
- Some tools available.
- Multiple images in the preview window.
- Side by each comparisons.
- Right click menu additions.
- Maybe simple tagging (Stars?) and trashing.
- Better layout.
- Frames.
- ...
When zooming in, it would be handy if the zoom level could be shown somehow.
Please don't stick a frame around the preview image as well, you know it won't look so good that way :)
-marko.
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I added the grey background to the actual preview window. It would be less dominant than white.
Thats the main reason i never moved away from Thunderstorm. In comparison, noire is just garish :P
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1st, thank you so much for the 'remove frames' option, images look so much better without it, imvho, of course. That air conditioning threat must have worked a treat!! I'll need to keep that one in mind, you never know when it might come in handy ;) :D
The new additions to the preview window are neat, especially that 'auto hide tree' one.
Bugs
- After zooming in, clicking on the image to drag it around causes it to snap to a set point in the image, and no other panning is possible.
- I set the preview window to hide the tree, and then set the right hand divider to the far right, completely hiding the panes and the file list. The list contains ~6000 files grouped using a custom field. The top of the list contains files in a specific folder, grouped by date, and these files number in the hundreds, all the rest fall under a single group header at the bottom. If I open the preview window from a thumbnail at the top of the list everything is fine, but, if I scroll down and open the preview window from a file further down the list, when I close it, the list is scrolled miles away from the selected file(s).
More to come?
- Still hanging out for zoom to center on the area under the cursor. Do you think that might be doable?
- Using the preview window to check out 4 similar images, with list and panes hidden, it would be useful to be able to close individual image previews from the preview window itself.
- Is 'Delete' still on the drawing board?
- I'm not sure how others feel, but I think that the ability to add a caption directly under the preview might be more useful than rating stars. Any thoughts on that... anyone?
-marko.
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I'm not sure how others feel, but I think that the ability to add a caption directly under the preview might be more useful than rating stars. Any thoughts on that... anyone?
I still haven't had much of an opportunity to play around with this yet, but from what I have seen I really like it. I agree with marko that a caption bar would be useful. Perhaps some rotate icons might be a good addition too. I like the way the tree automatically opens and closes - I'd also like to see the preview window detachable as well.
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i really enjoy the image preview window. playing around with it a lot.
i use the rotate image in the toolbar, the image gets rotated, but not in the preview window. maybe the preview should be updated also?
the fit and 100% knobs are nice additions. maybe a zoom knob would be great to. for those who dont have a scroll. like me...
:)
gab
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As marko already put my comments in, I'll add my favorite ones:
- need to pan around the image when at 100%. Sometimes worked and sometimes didn't.
- The Fit and 100% buttons don't seem consistent if they're gray or black (Noire skin)
- Yes a caption editing at the bottom of the preview window would be ideal. But then again, in the past in other programs there has been a need to use more text than a Caption usually allows you, say Description. So an option to select which one to have at the bottom would be better.
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Those buttons will probably go away and be replaced by something where the wiki stuff is now. I might then hijack the thumbnail slider and use it to adjust the preview. (Might not, too, so opinions would be good.)
Matt was having issues with the mouse dragging thing, too but I haven't. Still no love. This just seems to work for me. Any repro steps would be great.
Should the 100% button reset to upper left or center?
There is more to come. Still sorting out what needs to be in it.
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Still not reproducing this but I did at least find a bug in it. So maybe it is better.
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Short and sweet 'coz I gotta dash...
build 25 nailed the panning issue, but the not the list movement when closing maximised preview issue.
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It's the best thing MC has ever had for previewing/tagging files.
- The histogram is a nice idea, but I'm not sure how useful unless you could adjust levels with it.
- Hide the tree is very good. Makes the program feel intuitive.
- It would be nice if it were intelligent about how it displayed landscape and portrait images. Like grouping all images of the same orientation to onto the same row. I understand that this might confuse users expecting to see the images in the order that they are in the list though.
- The images would benefit from some padding between them too. And being vertically center aligned to each other (even if they are different orientations)
- The biggest issue now is navigating the list. When comparing images I want to use left/right to go through the list in order, but that's currently impossible in MC. Please introduce wrapping down onto the next row.
- Single images should also have some padding so that they dont push all the way up to the edge of the window. It looks a bit weird at the moment, like they might be being cropped or something.
Already though, this is going to be a big time saver (and click reducer) for me when tagging. Those pop up thumbnails always took a bit too long to pop up and weren't ideal for tagging.
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Matt was having issues with the mouse dragging thing, too but I haven't. Still no love. This just seems to work for me. Any repro steps would be great.
Should the 100% button reset to upper left or center?
Panning in 100% now seems to work fine in 25.
Good question on the 100%. My vote would be for center.
While playing with the preview today I accidentally double-clicked on a thumbnail and got the full size playing now view. I couldn't figure out how to get out of it. Double-click didn't work like it does in image preview so that would be nice. Esc didn't work which I thought for sure would because that's how you get out of most full size previews in other programs. Finally had to use the shortcut key to get back to standard view and then realized that Enter gets out of it. It would be nice if Esc and double-click also did.
Looking really good though!
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Can anyone please tell me if I'm the only one with this problem when using the image preview window?:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52779.msg359887#msg359887 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52779.msg359887#msg359887)
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Can anyone please tell me if I'm the only one with this problem when using the image preview window?:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52779.msg359887#msg359887 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52779.msg359887#msg359887)
:) no, you are not.
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Can anyone please tell me if I'm the only one with this problem when using the image preview window?:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52779.msg359887#msg359887 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52779.msg359887#msg359887)
Until it gets fixed, a simple refresh, rather than switching tabs, should return the current tab to its normal state.
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Just starting to use MC14 consistently over MC13.
So far finding the image preview window quite unusable, not sure whether this is due to my ageing laptop, but here are my problems:
- It seems to be very unresponsive and slow MC down a fair bit. Takes up to ten seconds to open the preview window, takes a couple of seconds to change from one image to another, or to show/hide files. Switching from another tab back to an Images tab with IPW takes a few seconds.
- The Top part of the files pane has the Magnifying glass, but it does absolutely nothing. I have to click the magnifying glass on an individual image on the bottom part to open the IPW. However if I click on a set in the top part when the window is already open it does show 4 images from that set.
- I cannot move between files with PgUp/PgDn nor with up/down/left/right buttons. Only by selecting different files in the files list.
- The Close button does absolutely nothing. To get rid of the preview window, I have to show the files and click the magnifying glass.
Edit: I am using build 34
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Are these raw or jpegs? If they are raw files turn on RAW image caching. Options->playback->images->RAW Image Settings. Temp caches the conversion for the session. Picking specified directory will keep them around for longer.
I've no idea what magnifying glass you are referring to but the only control to get into the mode (right now) is the magnifying glass on an individual image.
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All Jpegs.
This one:
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2030/imagemagnifyingglasss.jpg)
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Okay. That should be gone from the grouping. It also looks like it was trying to spool up all the images in the group at once. So that should be better. The close button problem should be fixed.
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Cheers :)