INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 15 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: ChrisRainman on October 22, 2010, 05:46:04 am
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First, thanks for all improvements you did so far in MC15 - especially the library server and web remote enhancements are great!
You recently changed the edit behaviour for list style fields - in my opinion in a bad way - or did you forget that there might be users who prefer not using a mouse when playing around with software. In this case, I am not able anylonger to edit tags without taking my mouse. Pressing F2 instead shows me "click to add" - so a further step is necessary before I can assign tag values.
As tagging normally is a kind of manual mass processing it's important that this can be done quickly. Currently, 4 actions are necessary to complete tagging for a single list style field:
1. Press F2
2. Take mouse and Click to add
3. Click on drop-down icon to show available entries
4. Select entry by mouse or keyboard arrows
5. Press enter to choose value
6. Press enter again to complete field tagging
Please allow adding a value by keyboard, e.g. press F2 a second time (or return or space) - then show already all current values plus blank input field instantly (step 3 not necessary)
Meanwhile (V15.136) it's possible again to scroll through fields in edit mode, in earlier builds I needed also a mouse to jump over a list style field. Thanks for that!
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Pressing F2 instead shows me "click to add" - so a further step is necessary before I can assign tag values.
you are clearly not using the build from the top. a lot has changed. there are two threads with discussion too. both locked though.
:)
gab
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Currently, 4 actions are necessary to complete tagging for a single list style field:
Nope. Try it again without the mouse. Use <Down> to enter the list, <Enter> to select and item (which moves it into the edit box). Alternatively, begin typing and select from the suggested items (<Shift+Enter> will select the first). Edit as necessary and <Enter> to accept. Use <Tab> to move into data list, <Space> to toggle selections, <Menu><Rename> to edit the current list item. It's fast—and versatile enough to handle different situations.
A few minor improvements could be made...
- When entering the drop-down list, it would be helpful if it would jump to the first item containing whatever has been entered in the edit box. If that's not feasible, then at least the first item that starts with that value.
- When using an alpha-key to jump to an entry on a list, that entry should be at the top of the list, not the bottom. If I press "M" in a list, I want to see the entries beginning with "M", not those beginning with "L" followed by the first beginning with "M."
- The suggestion list seems to be 3 items plus "See all x results." If the latter is chosen, a scrolling list is displayed in the same 4-line window. Since the items are those that contain the search term, it's difficult to scroll such a short list to find the desired item. Available screen space should be used to display as many items as possible (or if that's too extreme, at least 15-20 items—as the drop-down list does). If necessary, scroll the record to the top of the view—or open it up rather than down—in order to do so.
- Displaying a shorter list is less intrusive, but restricting it to 3 items is a bit severe. A result of 3 items plus "See all 5 results" is annoying if the item sought is one of the two not shown (more so if it doesn't exist!). Limiting it to 6 or 7 items would provide a better balance.
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you are clearly not using the build from the top. a lot has changed. there are two threads with discussion too. both locked though.
:)
gab
You're right, I updated my server version but not my client
Nope. Try it again without the mouse. Use <Down> to enter the list, <Enter> to select and item (which moves it into the edit box). Alternatively, begin typing and select from the suggested items (<Shift+Enter> will select the first). Edit as necessary and <Enter> to accept. Use <Tab> to move into data list, <Space> to toggle selections, <Menu><Rename> to edit the current list item. It's fast—and versatile enough to handle different situations.
I agree, I was not aware of all keyboard options - thanks!
One important thing I am still missing: How can I copy a field containing multiple values? Previously, pressing F2 showed them tab-limited and selected. I just needed to press CTRL+C, then arrow down, then F2 again, then CTRL+V
Now, such an operation seems much more complicated and requires a mouse if I want to copy and paste by right clicking. Hpefully, there's already a hint I just don't find.
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How can I copy a field containing multiple values?
Using Edit all with text editor—at both the source and destination. If the destination is multiple records, they must be empty or the new values will be reordered alphabetically. It would be more convenient to select the source and destination, Rename the destination and select Check all—but that will always reorder the values alphabetically. That's understandable, but it even does so if there are no values at the destination. It would be nice if there were a more direct way to do this. :-\
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Using Edit all with text editor—at both the source and destination.
I don't think that's a convenient way as it requires too many steps. Can you do the steps without mouse as it was possible earlier?
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It would be nice if there were a more direct way to do this.
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I don't think that's a convenient way as it requires too many steps. Can you do the steps without mouse as it was possible earlier?
It would be nice if there were a more direct way to do this.
Perhaps this will help? I know for a fact it works for the [people] field but don't have the time to test other list fields. Have the expression based column in the list, and the "real" field pane showing up top. Edits in the column should reflect in the pane. Ctrl+z is your friend if things don't work as expected.
Right click a list column header and choose "Add expression column"
Name the column something interesting, and the expression to use is simply [people] nothing more, nothing less. Once it's in, you should see the raw people data the way we used to see it in the old days!! F2 on that, paste in the expression, and the real [people] field gets updated accordingly.
-marko.
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Perhaps this will help? I know for a fact it works for the [people] field but don't have the time to test other list fields.
Yes, it seems to work for both regular and nested lists. And, if preferred, it can just be beside the "real" column—it doesn't have to be done in a Panes view. 8)
Still, this doesn't help if the need arises on an ad hoc basis, or one wants to copy from the tagging window.
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In a coming build:
NEW: Added 'Copy All To Clipboard' and 'Paste All From Clipboard' option to right-click list menu for the list editor.
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In a coming build:
NEW: Added 'Copy All To Clipboard' and 'Paste All From Clipboard' option to right-click list menu for the list editor.
Sounds great :D - but don't forget to assign a shortcut to allow quick tagging without mouse...
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Matt,
I finally got to try the new tagging mechanims. I like it. One big omission, which you may already be working on...
It is very difficult to delete all entries from a large set of files which may all have different values. Currently, the only method I see is to unclick all values.
There are solutions like showing the value as [Various], such that deleting it would make the whole tag empty, or a special clear all button (safer?)
Tolga
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Matt,
I finally got to try the new tagging mechanims. I like it. One big omission, which you may already be working on...
It is very difficult to delete all entries from a large set of files which may all have different values. Currently, the only method I see is to unclick all values.
There are solutions like showing the value as [Various], such that deleting it would make the whole tag empty, or a special clear all button (safer?)
Tolga
I think you can just select all files, then right click the list tagging list and pick 'Uncheck All'.
Does that work?
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ah, great, thanks! Haven't seen the right click before. That solves my problem.
For general use, I would try to emphasis that feature in the interface, how about select-all, select none entree in the top of the feature list? or little boxes with will filled and unfilled check marks at the top, or do people think right click menu is intuitive enough?
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At least for me it was not intuitive as I just was not aware of that right clicking option - probably that will happen to most of the users if they don't read this forum...
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One more request for list-type fields:
I think, both ways should be possible in general. Either working with keyboard only or mouse only.
Meanwhile I learned that it's possible to work with keyboard only and I begin to like that as I get used to it (except of the first entry is not chosen automatically).
But now, the situation was I had my bottle of beer in one hand and tried tagging with my other. That fails as I need to use RETURN to complete tagging for list style fields. Otherwise, the field just remain empty.
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Chris,
Drinking and tagging is dangerous.
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At least for me it was not intuitive as I just was not aware of that right clicking option - probably that will happen to most of the users if they don't read this forum...
There is one and only one secret to success with MC: "Right click is your friend"
Try it anywhere and everywhere. You'll be amazed at the features you uncover.
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There is one and only one secret to success with MC: "Right click is your friend"
...Not to imply context menus are for mouse users only. They can be accessed via most keyboards with a dedicated "menu" key (between right-Alt and Ctrl). If that's not available, the Windows keyboard shortcut for the function is Ctrl-F10.
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If multiple files are selected for a list tag, in the tagging window, if the files have the same set of values, MC does not give any visual clue if the order of values are different. This may be important for people who care about the order of values in a tag. I don't have a good solution.
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MC does not give any visual clue if the order of values are different.
This is only the case when editing in the view. In the tagging window, before entering edit mode, the field appears as [Varies] if the order of the values differ.
In any case, there's a visual cue in edit mode as well, although some may consider it too subtle. If the order of values is different, they'll appear alphabetically in the list—and the order can't be changed. Values can be removed without affecting the order of the remaining items, and new items added are added to the end of the lists that are not alphabetic. If the order of the values is the same, they'll appear in that order—and that order can be changed.
I don't have a good solution.
I don't think there is one better than the way it is. For those who care about the order, it should be readily apparent the order of the values differs in the selected records if that is not what is expected. The only exception is where the user thinks they're all in alphabetic order, but they're not. But then any values added to lists not in alphabetic order will be added to the end of the list, which is probably the most practical way to handle that particular situation.