INTERACT FORUM
Networks and Remotes => Media Network => Topic started by: rossop on April 15, 2011, 12:05:57 am
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Ripping with dBpoweramp and streaming to PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC/Bridge. I have applied Replay Gain through dBp and followed the instructions in JRiver with analyzer but cannot find where it says:
Step 2: Set your Playback Mode to Read the Replay Gain Values
1.Go to Player > Playback Options > DSP Studio on the Menu bar.
2.Place a check mark in the box next to Replay Gain in the tree.
I go to Player> Playback Options> DSP Studio in the Settings but I can only see: Output Format, Volume Levelling, Equaliser, Parametric Eq, Effects, Headphones, Tempo and Pitch, Room Correction, Analyser (which is ticked already).
If I apply Volume Levelling I can only use it on my PC and not 'send' it my DAC.
I would like to be able to apply Replay Gain without resorting to the Volume Normalisation option on dBp as it alters the "bits" where RG does not.
I am very confused ?
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The name of the option has changed from Replay Gain to Volume Leveling (probably the developers wanted to make it more self-descriptive).
What do you mean by "I can not send it to my DAC"? Volume Leveling is a playbck DSP feature. When a file is played in MC and replay gain correction is applied the output level is adjusted. It doesn't matter what output device and mode MC is set to use.
EDIT
The "Album" mode can work only if the album is imported to the media library. (MC generates the album gain values on import if the files have track Replay Gain values). If you don't want to use the Auto-Import feature you can also import from the Playing Now list by selecting the files and doing right-click > Import.
If the file format is m4a (ALAC or AAC encoding) only the recent MC16 builds can read the Replay Gain tags and only if you have set MC to use the new internal m4a decoder plugin. (Options > Files Types > Audio > AAC audio (m4a,aac) > Playback Method > Automatic or JRiver audio engine (using input plug-in).
EDIT 2
If you are speaking about a DLNA server/controller/client connection the situation is different. You can set an MC DLNA Server to apply track Replay Gain if the server is set to convert the files.
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When I select my DAC in the Playing Now pane and select Volume Levelling in the DSP Studio it says Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing. It has no effect when I play files on my main system (through the DAC). It works fine through my PC.
All files are analysed when imported.
Is there any way I can make it work?
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Is the "DAC" an audio device on your PC (available in Windows Control Panel as an audio device) or a DLNA control point and/or renderer (accessed through LAN)?
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Is the "DAC" an audio device on your PC (available in Windows Control Panel as a sound device) or a DLNA control point and/or renderer (accessed through LAN)?
It is the second I think. It connects to an access point via Ethernet and wirelessly to my router in the other room where my PC is. Im sure its the second.
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OK, it's a DLNA device then. The actual playback engine is on the DLNA device. If the files are served as they are (i.e. no conversion is done on the MC server) I think the DLNA device would need to have its own support for reading the replay gain tags directly from the served files and adjusting the volume level accordingly (I don't know if this is even possible through a DLNA connection).
The only option to make MC apply Replay Gain in this case is to set the MC DLNA server to always convert the files and apply Volume Leveling (only track Replay Gain is possible). You can set MC to use "uncompressed" PCM (with or without a header).
Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers... (see the attached screenshot)
In my opinion, DLNA is a crippled (in many ways) alternative for the Library Server/Client connection. Of course, for the latter you would need to use a PC & MC instance as the actual player and connect the DAC through S/PDIF, USB or Firewire.
Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachment.
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Thank you for the advice. As you may have guessed I dont know much about all this. One thing though: My major concern is that I do not wish to degrade the sound quality in the least.
I would prefer variable gain if it meant the highest sound quality. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.
Also I dont really understand what you mean by: In my opinion, DLNA is a crippled (in many ways) alternative for the Library Server/Client connection. Of course, for the latter you would need to use a PC & MC instance as the actual player and connect the DAC through S/PDIF, USB or Firewire.
Thanks
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Also I dont really understand what you mean by: In my opinion, DLNA is a crippled (in many ways) alternative for the Library Server/Client connection. Of course, for the latter you would need to use a PC & MC instance as the actual player and connect the DAC through S/PDIF, USB or Firewire.
In other words: have a PC in your listening room and connect it directly to your DAC. Then you can use the full MC interface for controlling playback and all playback options are available.
For instance:
PC > S/PDIF interface (built-in or an interface card) > S/PDIF cable > DAC > preamp input
If your device supports USB or Firewire input it can actually be the Windows Sound Device:
PC > USB or Firewire cable > DAC > preamp input
I have had a PC in my listening room over ten years now. I use a high quality PCI sound card. Its analog outputs are connected directly to my analog stereo amp. I have a 17" LCD screen on a nearby coffee table and I use a cordless mouse/keyboard combo. The current PC is very quiet (it has low noise fans and passively cooled components). The PC is the main audio source component. My stand-alone CD player is covered with dust (...quite literally. I really should clean it). I can use the Library Server/Client system if I want to play files that are stored on my other PCs.
I have a "HTPC" in another room. To only fundamental difference to the above system is the video output to the TV and the multichannel receiver/speakers.
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In my opinion, DLNA is a crippled (in many ways) alternative for the Library Server/Client connection. Of course, for the latter you would need to use a PC & MC instance as the actual player and connect the DAC through S/PDIF, USB or Firewire.
If MC had a full native client that ran on tablets/handhelds (instead of the very primitive WebRemote) then the Library connection could well be a decent alternative to DLNA, but until then, having to run a PC with keyboard and mouse and monitor at every listening point is not practical in a lot of situations. As a computer-based media player, of course there is nothing to touch MC, but it has a long way to go in terms of integration into the home.
There is Gizmo, but from what I understand it is not a complete client and lacks functionality, and not many people are going to buy an Android tablet on the basis of Gizmo without actually seeing a demo video of what it can do. The biggest market, iOS, has been ignored by the MC team and we are told to use WebRemote!
It would indeed be fantastic to have just one central server that can distribute all the audio and video, with low cost/low power/convenient hand-held clients to control it, and low cost/low power "thin clients" as players if the server itself is not distributing the aduio/video, but we are not quite there yet. DLNA technology is actually there and serves this purpose.
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Gizmo is a full client. And Android now has a greater market share than Apple.
Apple is unfriendly to serious developers. We don't plan to support them.
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Well, I apologise if I've done Gizmo an injustice!
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The only option to make MC apply Replay Gain in this case is to set the MC DLNA server to always convert the files and apply Volume Leveling (only track Replay Gain is possible). You can set MC to use "uncompressed" PCM (with or without a header).
I tried what you said and it does work but to my ears it does not sound nearly as good. Even allowing for the drop in volume it sounds a lot less resolved to me. Just my thoughts.
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I tried what you said and it does work but to my ears it does not sound nearly as good. Even allowing for the drop in volume it sounds a lot less resolved to me. Just my thoughts.
The 64-bit DSP that is used for adjusting the replay gain level in MC is far higher quality than any analog volume adjustment on a preamp can be.
Perhaps you didn't compensate the effective playback volume level enough (by adjusting your amp). Usually Replay Gain reduces the overall volume level quite a bit. If you want to do a fair comparison you must play both tracks at the exact same volume level, otherwise the track that happens to be louder usually sounds better.
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Does the JRiver Id device support Volume Leveling without conversion (that is, read the Replay Gain tags and adjust volume accordingly)? If not, that would be a cool feature to have...
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Does the JRiver Id device support Volume Leveling without conversion (that is, read the Replay Gain tags and adjust volume accordingly)? If not, that would be a cool feature to have...
If you mean the PS Audio DAC I use, no it does not. It has a volume control but at this time it does not support RG.
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The 64-bit DSP that is used for adjusting the replay gain level in MC is far higher quality than any analog volume adjustment on a preamp can be.
Perhaps you didn't compensate the effective playback volume level enough (by adjusting your amp). Usually Replay Gain reduces the overall volume level quite a bit. If you want to do a fair comparison you must play both tracks at the exact same volume level, otherwise the track that happens to be louder usually sounds better.
So, are you saying that volume leveling does nothing to the actual music signal but only reduces the volume level accordingly? Its good,though, as I can turn it on and off any time whereas with dBpoweramp volume normalization (replay gain) once its there the only way you can revert back is by re-rip.
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If you mean the PS Audio DAC I use, no it does not. It has a volume control but at this time it does not support RG.
I was referring to JRiver's playback device called the Id: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=61555.0
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So, are you saying that volume leveling does nothing to the actual music signal but only reduces the volume level accordingly? Its good,though, as I can turn it on and off any time whereas with dBpoweramp volume normalization (replay gain) once its there the only way you can revert back is by re-rip.
Yes. MC just reads the Replay Gain info from the database and adjusts the output volume level accordingly. (Naturally the files must first be analyzed either with MC or some other application that can measure the files and write compatible Replay Gain tags.)
Though, adjusting the volume level certainly changes the outputted signal (when the volume level is different the entire wave form is different), but when the change is done with MC's 64-bit floating point DSP it does not affect the audio quality in an audible way or even in a practically measurable way.