INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 16 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: JimH on July 20, 2011, 02:28:17 pm
-
We've been JRiver, Inc. for a long time, but in a search, the space causes a problem, so we may change it. Any opinion on the capitalization options?
Thanks.
-
I think JRiver is the best.
-
I don't see this - the top results are your home page. What am I missing?
-
Maybe a bad example. Google is smart about returning results for either "JRiver" or "JRiver" if you search for either one. On a forum, however, the search needs to be precise, and people spell the name all kinds of ways: Jrivers, J River, JRiver, and so on.
-
I wonder if you can keep the company name, but instead change the product name to something unique. Nobody has trouble searching for iTunes due to a generic name of Apple. I wonder if Microsoft today would have picked "Word" (and yet Apple picked Pages and Numbers - I suppose when you're that large, it doesn't matter.).
Media Center, in my opinion, is too generic, two words that are all-too-common, almost requiring the addition of JRiver.
ps. I would also suggest adding the sub-domain j.river.com with a redirect to jriver.com, as well as purchase the domain jrivers.com. (Our last name is misspelled about 90% of the time, so I've had to purchase the misspelled form of domain too. Perhaps we should have went with my wife's surname.)
-
I wonder if you can keep the company name, but instead change the product name to something unique. Nobody has trouble searching for iTunes due to a generic name of Apple. I wonder if Microsoft today would have picked "Word" (and yet Apple picked Pages and Numbers - I suppose when you're that large, it doesn't matter.).
Media Center, in my opinion, is too generic, two words that are all-too-common, almost requiring the addition of JRiver.
ps. I would also suggest adding the sub-domain j.river.com with a redirect to jriver.com, as well as purchase the domain jrivers.com. (Our last name is misspelled about 90% of the time, so I've had to purchase the misspelled form of domain too. Perhaps we should have went with my wife's surname.)
Much tho i hate to admit it I agree with this. My friends are often asking how to find what i've got and I know that most of them simply never find it because they won't remember JRiver and Media Center takes them to Microsoft.
-
Just to limit the scope a little, we're not looking for a total brand overhaul. The product name works.
Mr Chriz, if you search for "Media Center", we're number 4. If you search for "Media Center -Microsoft", we're number 1. Works for "Media Centre", too.
You could also send your friends to mediacentre.com, which we own.
-
Suggestions:
MC <- this is supposed to read jay-arr MC, but the forum filter keeps deleting the letters Jay and Arr.
River Media Center
Icantbelieveit'snot$200+mediacenter.com
-
other suggestions:
mediapower
powermedia
coolmedia
superbmedia
mediaguru
mediawiz
mediageek
mediaforce
don't know if these already exist, but I'd come up with a lot more :)
-
River Media Center
Were you trying to do a Social Network impression?
"Drop the J. Just River. It's cleaner."
-
"Drop the J. Just River. It's cleaner."
Is there a clean river in the US anymore?
-
I hate to say it, but all your poll options are just awful, and I'd much rather keep things as is.
River Media Center is an interesting option mind, although I'm not sure it works.
This reminds me of a bank over this side of the pond who spent millions of pounds, just to change the color of their logo....................
-Leezer-
-
Leezer,
The problem for us is that the two part name (JRiver) doesn't work well for a search. JRiver works.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Jim
-
We could also be more consistent about using a unique single-word name like J.R.M.C. (dots added to work around forum issue), MC, RMC, or even MC (although some forums don't allow two letter searches).
-
I think even a three letter search is iffy on some forums.
-
This reminds me of a bank over this side of the pond who spent millions of pounds, just to change the color of their logo....................
You can be confident that we won't do this any time soon.
-
FYI: Many forums also don't allow, or do well with, 3 letter searches.
I note this inconsistency on Interact. One appears to have a space, one not. One in all caps, one not.
DishNetwork is horrendous with this. They have:
dish NETWORK
dish network
Dish Network
DISH Network
dish*online
DISH Online
DISH ONLINE
DishONLINE
DISH
dish
dish (where the "i" is an icon of a satellite beam).
DISH ON DEMAND (which is the same thing as DishONLINE)
On Demand
... and there are many, many more.
-
Funny how the brain works. The "jriver" on the splash screen often catches my eye. I had to check now to see that's actually part of a URL. As a style, I think a lower case "jriver" with a capitalized "Media Center" makes a more effective impression. If the product were strongly branded as "jriver Media Center," it would be easier to find (most would be searching for "jriver").
Speaking of subliminal messages, I've always thought "Collect, Organize and Play" is catchy and meaningful—and wondered why it isn't used more.
-
How about iRiver?
Would let everyone know how much you love Apple.
-
at work, we have iPaqs, iMag and iNews... I tease my iPhone toting colleagues by telling them that everything that starts with an i is rubbish when they complain about the tools we have to work with!!
jriver works for me.
-
How about iRiver?
Would let everyone know how much you love Apple.
There's a company called iRiver that made/makes mp3 players. They were quite popular among iPod haters about 5 years ago. Some people do actually confuse JRiver with iRiver already.
-
I think even a three letter search is iffy on some forums.
That it is.
-
Were you trying to do a Social Network impression?
"Drop the J. Just River. It's cleaner."
Sorry, Matt; I only just got what you were referring to. I didn't register the capitalised S and N!
-
Maybe RevirJ would generate some MC is dead buzz.
-
How about RiverX, or RiverX Media Center to go along with the trend of adding X to everything (or is that again a Mac thing?).
I like MC.
SBR
-
I like JRiver or jriver. I don't think you should change it to something dramatically different because then you could lose built-up brand identity. This is almost always a bad idea, unless you're trying to hide from something (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altria_Group).
That ship has sailed, but simply rebranding by reworking the text a bit is fine.
I personally like the all lowercase one the best, which matches the existing URL behavior anyway, and you could make a cool logo showing it like that.
-
I personally like the all lowercase one the best, which matches the existing URL behavior anyway, and you could make a cool logo showing it like that.
I think the lower case jriver is a little too close to iriver.
-
Just to limit the scope a little, we're not looking for a total brand overhaul. The product name works.
Mr Chriz, if you search for "Media Center", we're number 4. If you search for "Media Center -Microsoft", we're number 1. Works for "Media Centre", too.
In fact you're now 5th, MediaPortal took your place. :'(
-
Were you trying to do a Social Network impression?
"Drop the J. Just River. It's cleaner."
MediaRiver
-
In fact you're now 5th, MediaPortal took your place. :'(
And it wins hands down with the search term many would use: "MediaPortal." MC doesn't have a similar unique name. That's why the product should be branded as "jriver Media Center" or something similar. Yes, technically, the name is "JRiver Media Center," but it's not effectively branded as such. Most of us think of it as (JRiver's) "Media Center." When recommending MC, I'd like to say something like, "I use jriver Media Center. Google 'jriver'." Right now, I sense most verbal recommendations are lost in confusion about which "Media Center" and/or who "JRiver" is.
-
There's a company called iRiver that made/makes mp3 players. They were quite popular among iPod haters about 5 years ago. Some people do actually confuse JRiver with iRiver already.
i bought 2 iriver mp3 players i loved...
-
i like "JRiver" ::)
-
In the current AVS thread "Best Player for PC FLAC files" you get the following answers: J River Media Center, JRiver, J River, j.river. Nobody has it right yet. ;D
If I every got stymied in a forum search, I would have just searched for "river." However, searching for just for "river" in most forums won't find jriver without the space. I don't see how changing it really helps anything.
-
i like "JRiver" ::)
This is nice, with "j" being the logical progression after the "i" phenomenon, one-upping Apple. The trend starts now!
-
This is nice, with "j" being the logical progression after the "i" phenomenon, one-upping Apple.
Why stop there? "jMc" ;D
-
This is nice, with "j" being the logical progression after the "i" phenomenon, one-upping Apple. The trend starts now!
In that case, go straight to zRiver.
-
In the current AVS thread "Best Player for PC FLAC files" you get the following answers: J River Media Center, JRiver, J River, j.river. Nobody has it right yet. ;D
If I every got stymied in a forum search, I would have just searched for "river." However, searching for just for "river" in most forums won't find jriver without the space. I don't see how changing it really helps anything.
More worryingly, last I checked, there were too few recommendations for jrivers medical centre in that thread.
-
... In the current AVS thread "Best Player for PC FLAC files" you get the following answers....
Thanks for the endorsements. Here's the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1348029
-
I don't get the impression that the name of the product is up for debate, only how to "market" it, and that's obviously fine.
However, "Media" is very vague, and will draw LOTS of results from any number of intended searchers. "Center" is even worse. "Media Center" is nearly as vague. It could mean a physical location where media is stored (a warehouse), a physical place where the news media comes together, the name of a competing product, and more.
there is little that you can do to eliminate these other results no matter what *else* you add to that part of the name.
there is nothing current (that I'm aware of) that jriver (or JRiver) could be confused with, except maybe the iRiver player, which I think is no longer available/marketed.
Think about Xerox. its' not ever going to be confused with anything else, it's unique, like JRiver
perhaps "media center" is not helping the cause at all. yes, it helps describe the product, which is usually a good thing, but it also describes your competitors products, and generically describes any media player, and the things above.
I suggest the official product name be shortened to JRiver
that's it. that is the name of this product. in a few years all relevant internet references to this product will only reference this new name, and you will grow out of the confusion that "media center" has surrounded you with.
"What {media/music/video/whatever} player do you use?"
"JRiver, it's great, you should try it."
a search for JRiver would certainly never be done; who adds a period to a search? I don't.
j river would not be an uncommon search, but it's 2 pages before anything other than this software comes up and "D&J River Ranch" is not likely to take any traffic from you.
leaving "media center" in the official name will ALWAYS take traffic from you and/or add confusion to people.
the folks over at foobar don't have this issue, it's unique, therefore stands alone/apart from anything else. EASY to find.
My Google results for j river media center are "About 10,400,000 results"
My Google results for j river are "About 88,300,000 results"
My Google results for foobar are "About 4,970,000 results"
My Google results for jriver are "About 1,390,000 results"
Just my $.02 8)
-
Posted by Mr. C. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20724398#post20724398)
No matter how you slice it, Media Center by JRiver. Or is it JRiver... or J River, or JRiver, or JRiver, or JRiver, or jriver?
This made me wonder if changing the name would be worth giving up the tagline: "So awesome, they haven't found a suitable name for it!" :)
-
I think the lower case jriver is a little too close to iriver.
There is that.
-
Leezer,
The problem for us is that the two part name (JRiver) doesn't work well for a search. JRiver works.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Jim
True, but it's ugly as anything :o
Doesn't 'sound' right either- IMHO you need to think about how it's pronounced too.
I also agree to an extent with those who're muttering that "Media Center" is too generic a term to be much help. Sadly, those who tend to get remembered for creating such a genericised name (Hoover etc) tend to be those who get surpassed in the end by the contenders. Thus, we refer to something as a Hoover, but we're not actually looking for one litterally, if you see what I mean ? (Am I making any sense here?)
Food for thought anyhows.
-Leezer-
-
...those who tend to get remembered for creating such a genericised name (Hoover etc) tend to be those who get surpassed in the end by the contenders. Thus, we refer to something as a Hoover, but we're not actually looking for one litterally, if you see what I mean ? (Am I making any sense here?)
Sometimes. But sometimes, the reverse is true. Leading brand names sometimes become ubiquitous defacto generic names: Kleenex for tissue, Tylenol for acetaminophen, Motrin for ibuprofen, *ampax for women's hygiene product, Bengay for body analgesic, Levi's for jeans, Lear for jet, Mack for semi-truck, Ritz for luxury hotel, etc.
-
Sometimes. But sometimes, the reverse is true. Leading brand names sometimes become ubiquitous defacto generic names: Kleenex for tissue, Tylenol for acetaminophen, Motrin for ibuprofen, *ampax for women's hygiene product, Bengay for body analgesic, Levi's for jeans, Lear for jet, Mack for semi-truck, Ritz for luxury hotel, etc.
jriver Kleenex or JRiver facial tissue is never gonna stand apart from Kleenex. better or worse, they would be forever intertwined in Google :(
-
I voted for JRiver, but whenever I pimp the program to friends and discuss it I always say/type J R M C (without the spaces, there seems to be a weird forum bug with typing J R together). Not sure if this is common with anyone else, but that's how I think.
-
I had a wacky idea... What if you don't remove the space and the dot, but just the space: JRiver. It was listed above as one of the more common "mistakes" anyway, and it would solve the search problem and make it unique. I already think it is kind of a silly idea. I was thinking maybe you could try to be one of those hipster internet guys and register riv.er so that you could have your homepage (or maybe interact, for all us hipster internet guys) at j.riv.er.
But then I looked and the .er domain is Eritrea. Not only is it very difficult to register a domain name (http://www.ehow.com/how_6805273_register-_er-domain-name.html) there, I wouldn't want to give them my money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eritrea#Politics_and_government) anyway.
-
Not sure if this is common with anyone else, but that's how I think.
The most common thing I tell my friends is, "No thanks, I'm just going to stay home and jriver my media."
-
My .02 is that "JRiver Media Player" would stand out from WMC. The Media center part for me gets in the way... A single name as in "JRiver" will be used more than the formal "J River media Center".
Ken
-
JRiver Media Suite?
MC16 is much more than a Media Player, so calling it that just wouldn't do it justice.
I wonder if people would start to pronounce it as "JeRMS"? :)
Advocating the software would be known as spreading or sharing JeRMS.
-
I see no reason for a name change myself. JRiver Media Center has always sounded just right for me and any name change will only take away from the years of name recognition that JRiver has established within the audio/video community. At least that's how I feel about it, fwiw. :)
Cheers,
Robin
-
I see no reason for a name change myself. JRiver Media Center has always sounded just right for me and any name change will only take away from the years of name recognition that JRiver has established within the audio/video community.
Thanks. The change we're thinking about is only
From:
JRiver Media Center
To:
JRiver Media Center
The reason is to make search more consistent and successful.
-
I support JustinChase post, jriver is the unique and main word, media center is not adding anything but confusion.
-
Removing the space from within Media Center (to MediaCenter) brings your Google search results from #4 below XBMC and MediaPortal, to #2 above XBMC. This seems like a good thing.
-
I was under the impression that as far as search goes, capitalization doesn't matter. Though I guess on some forums/apps it may vary.
You could lose the space AND go the Flickr route and be Jrivr. ;)
-
I think JRiver is much more professional than the other choices. Sure, JRiver might pull an iTunes and go for trendy, but, at least to me, JRiver gives the impression of more reliability and an "established" nature... which may or may not be what the company is going for... (I say it should).
BTW, this got me wondering if there's a thread about why it's called JRiver... if there isn't maybe someone could explain.
-
BTW, this got me wondering if there's a thread about why it's called JRiver... if there isn't maybe someone could explain.
Interesting question. Thirty years ago, I started the company in the warehouse district of Minneapolis, about 200 yards from the Mississipi River. I named the company "James River Group". James (my name) and River (for the Mississipi).
About ten years later, we changed the name to JRiver, to avoid conflict with James River Corp, a paper company. Within a year, they had merged with Fort Howard, another paper company. They became Fort James.
By the way, we're still on the same block, and in the same building for about the last 28 years. There are some pictures here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64819.0
-
Thanks. The change we're thinking about is only
From:
JRiver Media Center
To:
JRiver Media Center
The reason is to make search more consistent and successful.
I actually like JRiver more than JRiver (just drop the space)
-
Yea... My Father worked for JR.. I was wondering about that...
Ken
-
jriver / JRiver / jRiVeR whatever, all are more memorable than media centre. I always have to refer to J River MC when posting on hi fi forums, whereas everyone knows what itunes, wmp, foobar etc means......Whatever you choose, just use one name!!
-
Jim, any decisions on this from your end yet?
I only ask because it's very common for you or Matt to post a thread like this asking for our input, and you end up getting LOTS of (usually quite different) feedback, but I don't usually see what's been decided based on that feedback.
I'm just curious to see how you've filtered all of this data and your own needs to come to an "answer" that works for you.
Anyway, thanks again :)
-
You can call us JRiver now. Thanks for all the help.
-
Oh great, at last a topic I know something about and maybe can help instead of always asking for help. Always thought you had a great product saddled with a terrible name. What's wrong: too much of a copycat of Microsoft, too cumbersome (that J. is just confusing) and makes the big mistake of trying to describe what your product does. Think Bose, Apple, Ford: no hint about the kind of product, but what powerful names. "Media Center": stuffy, static, jargon. Banks, stockbrokers and governments have "centers"; your program is not a "center"; it's a moving, dynamic, incredibly flexible work of art. A successful name must be distinctive, easy to remember with subtle (or not so subtle) semiconscious connotations. And you have such a name in "Rivers"--pure gold. Rivers, river, moving, flowing, streaming, beautiful, natural--it's a huge asset. Forget the J, it's just confusing. (Where is that darn file, under "J" or "R"?) You're not big enough to get by with just the name "Rivers", so add "Player". Play: fun, movement, tells a little about what you do but not too much. "Rivers Player" has enough ties with the old name that it will be recognized as such and doesn't call out for a huge advertisement program to change the name (any idea how much Wells Fargo spent to change "Wachovia" to "Wells Fargo"--it was lots). Avoid "Media" and "Center" like the plague--connotations say all the wrong things. Remember: almost no one buys anything with just their brain. OK, that's my two cents worth; I hope some of it helps. Very best for your names project. Guy
Oh, oh. I guess I'm a little late and a decision has already been made. Certainly JRiver Inc. is a huge improvement over your old name. Still think you are missing out on the gold that's in the plain word "Rivers" and I wonder if your big enough to use a name (like BMW) that gives no hint of your product; usually names like BMW are accompanied by a big advertising budget. But your choice is a big improvement. Best of luck. Guy
-
Your commentary reflects a great amount of insightful thought Guy!
-
And you have such a name in "Rivers"--pure gold. Rivers, river, moving, flowing, streaming, beautiful, natural--it's a huge asset.
How about "Rivers of Media"? Sounds like streaming music but bigger and better. ;-)
Bill
-
How about "Rivers of Media"? Sounds like streaming music but bigger and better. ;-)
Bill
I agree that Rivers of Media evokes an image of streaming music.
However, don't we want the title to connotate more than that?
-
Media means one thing to the computer savvy people on this board, but for most folks it means CNN, Larry King Live, ABC news and the local newspaper. Rivers of Media is probably just confusing for most. The key is always to try to put yourself in the shoes of the people you want to attract; whether the "symbol" appeals to the owner or creator is irrelevant. River is a proper name with the underlying connotation of movement just like Canon is a proper name with the underlying connotation of power. It's rare for brand names to have a built-in connotation; mostly corporations spend millions in advertising to create one. That's why "River" is such gold, it has a natural subliminal message. And subliminal messages sell. Think of a beautiful model in a swimsuit. "The message: buy this swimsuit and you'll look like this model." It's best not to make the message too obvious! But keep it in the background and does it sell swimsuits.
There is an important initial question, though, and I don't know the answer. What is the purpose of this name? Is it to sell the product or just identify it? Guy
-
Media means one thing to the computer savvy people on this board, but for most folks it means CNN, Larry King Live, ABC news and the local newspaper.
Jim already announced his decision as you recognized in an earlier post. I saw the possibility of a humorous idea. I didn't say "Rivers of Music" because JRiver is always stressing that MC does more than just music.
Before my time, the product might have been named music jukebox.
There is an important initial question, though, and I don't know the answer. What is the purpose of this name? Is it to sell the product or just identify it?
Jim said
"We've been JRiver, Inc. for a long time, but in a search, the space causes a problem, so we may change it."
Sounds like Jim wanted suggestions for a company name.
------
In practice, you may not have full control over what people call your product. On several audio forums, people call JRiver's product MC and sometimes they call the company that as well. I think that "JRiver Media Center 16" is just too long.
Perhaps "The Player" (pronounced ghetto style) is short enough and would appeal to younger customers with multiple piercings. (more humor.)
Bill
-
Jay River
-
Jay River
Jay River - international man of media
-
For what its worth, my suggestion is simply "streaming river player" or "cloud river player"
-
I think a small investment in an internet branding expert would be a worthwhile expense. I don't have that expertise so I am not qualified to comment.
I would like to see the company and the brand to be the coke of colas and the xerox of copiers.
Tunetyme
-
Seems pretty clear what it's gonna be, considering the results
-
JRiver is how we will display the company name.
The product is JRiver Media Center.