INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 17 => Topic started by: NickF on December 20, 2011, 01:51:19 pm
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I am gradually committing to using MC as my video player, being totally convinced on audio, but am having problems with getting the player to switch to the correct frame refresh rate, depending on the media type. I have set up the appropriate settings in "Display Settings" but it is somewhat inconsistent in its behaviour. It always gets Blu-ray rips right, very rarely NTSC DVD rips and never PAL DVDs. So what is going on? What is the decision based on? Is it inspection of the media itself or is it based on tags? If it is tags, how do I inspect them and can I change them?
Nick.
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It uses the FPS field.
You can use Library Tools > Update Library (from tags) if you have blank values.
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Check your files to see if the FPS is stored properly for each movie. Go to Standard View >Video >files and add the FPS column if it is not already shown. Also, do you have "enable automatic display switching" checked at Tools>options>Video>Display Settings?
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Thanks guys. The FPS info was missing for most of the files. I did the update from tags and this has solved the problem.
What I don't understand is why wasn't the library populated with this originally. Have I got something set up wrongly?
Nick.
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I don't know for sure - but possibly under Tools>Options>General>Importing & Tagging you need to check the box for "Update Tags when the File Info Changes".
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What I don't understand is why wasn't the library populated with this originally. Have I got something set up wrongly?
We didn't used to get the FPS reliably (like when you imported the files), but should now.
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I don't know for sure - but possibly under Tools>Options>General>Importing & Tagging you need to check the box for "Update Tags when the File Info Changes".
This was checked OK so it must be something else. Most of these were imported prior to MC17. I will test for new imports.
Nick.
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this thread got me checking my files, and I had 176 with no FPS info, so I updated library and 16 still have no FPS, all wmv files FYI.
But, I also noticed I have several repeating frame rates in the FPS column (41 in total), for example
23.98
23.98
23.98
23.98
23.98
24
24
...
29.97
29.97
29.97
29.97
30
30
30
...
I'm guessing the window is rounding, but the internal precision is better/different. I suppose it would be better to show the extra precision, I'm not sure how else one could see it otherwise, or if it matters too much. Consolidating the rounded version in the view might be good too.
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How does one find out what refresh rate the TV is?
Do I set the display to 1920x1080 with the tv refresh rate?
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How does one find out what refresh rate the TV is?
Do I set the display to 1920x1080 with the tv refresh rate?
Most modern TVs will accept a number of different refresh rates. There will be an upper nd lower limit. What is important is to have the refresh rate in the graphics card set to the same as the playing media or a multiple thereof. This Display Settings feature in MC allows you to select the right refresh rate for each type of movie.
The dimensions selected in Display Settings do need to match your TV so, if that is a True HD TV, 1920x1080 is right and this is selected with Display Settings.
Nick.
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What do I set the other numbers after the 1920x1080x?x?
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What do I set the other numbers after the 1920x1080x?x?
Choose 32 for best colour definition then the last number is the frame rate. So, for example, for a PAL DVD which would have been filmed at 25 frames per second (yes, I know the purists will say they are actually filmed at 24 frames per second!) choose 1920x1080x32x50. Remember to also check "enable automatic display switching" in Tools>options>Video>Display Settings. The graphics GPU will upscale the size and double the refresh rate to meet this spec to give you smooth playback. The next step is to use Video Clock in MC or Slysofts's ReClock.
Nick.
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sorry to be a pain but what about ntsc and film?
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sorry to be a pain but what about ntsc and film?
Film should be 1920x1080x32x24 and NTSC should be 1920x1080x32x59.
I'm not sure how you can tell that these are working other than by seeing an improved smoothness of movement in the video. I use PowerStrip and have a setting to display changes in refresh rate for a few seconds. This gives reassurance that MC is doing its job.
Nick.
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Yes my movies are not that smooth but thats probably because i did not understand theses settings.
Why is there two film listed do i set both the same? Also what is the default?
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Why is there two film listed do i set both the same?
This is a complex subject and purists will go to great lengths to set up their PC graphics refresh rates to exactly match the frame rate of the movie or video source. Movies these days are shot at 23.976 fps so some will attempt to fine tune the graphics refresh rate to exactly match this. It looks as though MC is providing the option to have an exact setting for "film" and an approximate setting of 24 fps. If you look at these options in Display Settings, you will see these two numbers against the two "film" options. If you use a product like ReClock or VideoClock, it will resolve the small difference between the true film frame rate and the chosen PC refresh rate, provided this difference isn't too large. So I use 24 for both of these settings and let ReClock do the fine tuning.
The default is the rate you want MC to switch back to when the video play is stopped. Depending on where you live and what other apps you run on your PC, this might be 50 or 60. I live in the UK and our TV is 25 fps. So my default is 50 (double 25). In the US, the default desktop refresh rate is usually 60.
Nick.
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mmm all very complex.
I set these up last night and watched a movie that was very jumpy therefore I had to untick the automatic refresh rate and then it all played well.
It was an AVI with 23.98 FPS. ?
Do I need to change the refresh rate in my Nvidia GForce 9500GT?
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MC should make the change of refresh rate for you automatically when it inspects the FPS setting for the media. These resolution and refresh rate options are usually available from Windows so you shouldn't need to go into NVIDIA Control Panel. If having the auto refresh rate change checked made the jumpiness worse, it suggests that you may have the wrong setting.
Did you check that MC has the right fps value in its library - see the advice from Matt and CountryBumpkin earlier in this thread.
Nick.
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I am totally confused. my FPS are set in the library. Jumping is worse with these settings set.
Is there anything in the Wii to read?
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You may want to check/change the setting for "Hardware Accelerate Video Decoding when possible" under Tools>Options>Video. One of my HTPCs won't play with it checked, the other won't play properly with it unchecked.
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ahh I will try that tonight
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Hi, took this off Hardware Accelerate Video Decoding when possible put back all the display setting and the jumping is back.
Help somebody??
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Whilst this video is playing, change MC to windowed so that you can see some of your desktop then right click and select NVIDIA Control Panel. Select the change resolution option and see what refresh rate NVIDIA is set to. It should be 24. If not, MC is setting the wrong rate. If it is 24, the problem isn't the refresh rate.
Are you using Red October HQ? Even though my processor and GPU are reasonably good, the HQ option causes some jumpinesss for me.
Nick.
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I am using Red October standard.
I hve tried your suggestion but Nvidia constantly crashes so cant do the test that you have suggested.
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Maybe faulty nVidia drivers. Try reinstalling latest drivers and see if that solves the problem. Also, most likely you will want "Hardware Accelerate ..." turned ON. I was just suggesting you try it both ways (I think it was my on-board HD2000 gpu that didn't like it turned on).
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I agree with CountryBumpkin. Best to get NVIDIA stable before you try anything else.
You can also check current frame refresh rate from Windows - right click on desktop and choose Screen resolution. Click the link for advanced settings and select the Monitor tab. This will give the current rate.
Nick.
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the refresh rate is 50hertz.
If I use the auto frame rate I get jumpy videos.
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Was the refresh rate 50 while you were playing the video? You said the video you were testing had a frame rate of 23.976. Chech the refresh rate while playing this video and the auto select on in MC. Are all of your videos jumpy with MC on auto?
Nick.
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Opened Nvidia and the refresh rate was on 50 I have now changed this to 24.
Where do I look to see what the refresh rate is while playing?
Also I noticed the Audi output says 48khz 24bit 2ch Using WASAPI not using enough bits to output input directly.
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Both the NVIDIA and Windows methods I mentioned will show the rate while playing. If MC is set to change the rate automatically, you will see that rate in NVIDIA. This should tell us whether it is being changed correctly. We also need to know whether the frame rate data is set correctly for the video.
When you changed the NVIDIA setting to 24 and applied this, did you get the confirmation window pop up and did you confirm? If you do this then play the video with auto select turned off in MC, does the video play smoothly?
Where did you read the audio info from? There are often problems with WASAPI and bit depth. Some sound cards require 32 bit.
Nick.
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Hi, Checked the frame rate and it does change. I have taken off the hardware accelerate and will check that tonight.
The audio info is on the 3rd button on the right, if you hover over it give the info there.
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Bump
I am still having problems with jumpy movies, panning is the worst, it is a long time since I have had them play smooth.
I think I have tried all the different frame rate settings.
I have set my Nvidia card back at the default refresh rate of 50 and I have seen it change rate when playing different frame rate movies, so that part works.
I am getting frustrated with this and have just been putting up with it.
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BUMP
Can nobody offer any help ?
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I remember you saying that play was smooth if the MC auto refresh rate change was disabled. Is this still the case? If it is, play the movie and, whilst playing, check the rate in NVIDIA control panel or Windows. Check the data in MC for the movie and see what FPS is set there.
Nick.
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Tried taking display setting off watching Nvidia display nothing changed and now they are still jumpy.
Tried using RO HQ but was getting momentary freeze up.
I would love to be able to watch a video where the panning shots do not jerk.
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This certainly sounds like a frame rate mismatch. Because you said that you used to get smooth movement before setting MC to change it, I assumed there was something wrong with the MC setup or the wrong rate was set in the tags for the movie.
I have ReClock installed and this is very useful for seeing what is going on. While the movie is playing, it can show the correct data for the movie and also the rate selected for the graphics card. I suggest you install this to get a bit more information.
Go to the SlySoft forum and look for the ReClock forum. The latest version of ReClock is available there. Install it and leave all the settings at default. In MC, choose Tools>Options>Video and under General video settings select Video mode: advanced custom. Under Custom Setting, at the top drop down, select Red October standard. Click the Add button then near the bottom, click the Type drop down and select Audio Renderer. On the Filter drop down, select ReClock. Now MC will use ReClock. Play one of your movies with MC windowed and look in your system tray for a circular clock face symbol. It may be red, yellow or flashing red and green. Click on this and a window will pop up. At top left, Video Stream, it will show the size, type and frame rate of the video. Across to the right and down a bit, Video hardware, Refresh rate, it will show the frame rate of the graphics card. If it is a 23.976 video, you want the graphics card to be set to 24. If it isn't, you will get jumpinesss. If the GPU is not 24, close MC and use NVIDIA to set the rate to 24. Now play the movie again and open the ReClock window and check again. If the rate is now correct, leave the movie running for a while and watch the System clock correction figure. This will gradually reduce. Ideally, this number should be at 0.17 or less to get perfectly smooth movement but it takes about 2 hours of constant play to get there. Even if you don't use ReClock, it may help find out what is going on.
Nick.
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This certainly sounds like a frame rate mismatch. Because you said that you used to get smooth movement before setting MC to change it, I assumed there was something wrong with the MC setup or the wrong rate was set in the tags for the movie.
I have ReClock installed and this is very useful for seeing what is going on. While the movie is playing, it can show the correct data for the movie and also the rate selected for the graphics card. I suggest you install this to get a bit more information.
Go to the SlySoft forum and look for the ReClock forum. The latest version of ReClock is available there. Install it and leave all the settings at default. In MC, choose Tools>Options>Video and under General video settings select Video mode: advanced custom. Under Custom Setting, at the top drop down, select Red October standard. Click the Add button then near the bottom, click the Type drop down and select Audio Renderer. On the Filter drop down, select ReClock. Now MC will use ReClock. Play one of your movies with MC widowed and look in your system tray for a circular clock face symbol. It may be red, yellow or flashing red and green. Click on this and a window will pop up. At top left, it will show the size, type and frame rate of the video. Across to the right and down a bit, it will show the frame rate of the graphics card. If it is a 23.976 video, you want the graphics card to be set to 24. If it isn't, you will get jumpinesss. If the GPU is not 24, close MC and use NVIDIA to set the rate to 24. Now play the movie again and open the ReClock window and check again. If the rate is now correct, leave the movie running for a while and watch the System clock correction figure. This will gradually reduce. Ideally, this number should be at 0.17 or less to get perfectly smooth movement but it takes about 2 hours of constant play to get there. Even if you don't use ReClock, it may help find out what is going on.
Nick.
What is GPU?
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What is GPU?
Graphics Processor Unit - on the graphics card.
Nick.
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I have installed re clock on and played a 23.976 and the graphics card was at 24.
I have also taken of video clock as I believe that will interfere with re clock.
cheers
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Did the video play smoothly? If so, and you want to keep ReClock, you will need to set MC to change the refresh rate automatically again as ReClock needs the rate to be close to the rate of the video.
Nick.
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Yes it was the first time in a while that we have had a smooth movie thank you.
So I know need to set the display again? Is that all what about video clock?
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That's good news! Leave VideoClock turned off. In my opinion, ReClock does a better job at the moment.
Nick.
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Just wanted to say thanks for all your help.
Obviously as yet I have not gone through all of the different movies to see if they work but so far so good :)
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Is it normal for the screen to go black momentarily when closing MC??
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I'm glad it is looking good for you. I'm a bit embarrassed recommending another product! It is a bit frustrating not having found a definite cause. You said that you turned off VideoClock so you presumably had it running when you were having the problems. I have also had various problems with this but don't know why when it clearly works for others. I have had jumpy video and very significant audio delay.
With ReClock, check that you are getting 5.1 sound. I have to set the PCM audio interface to WASAPI, otherwise I only get 2 channels.
Nick.
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Is it normal for the screen to go black momentarily when closing MC??
The screen going black may be a consequence of MC changing the refresh rate back to your normal desktop setting.
Nick.
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We are getting 5.1 we use WASAPI. We used to use SPDIF but my husband prefers the sound card as there is more to play with in the equalizer.
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I wanted to play with these settings, but I must be missing something
I only have these option to choose
?? x ?? x 32 x 59
?? x ?? x 16 x 59
?? x ?? x 32 x 60
?? x ?? x 16 x 60
What am I missing, why don't I have these other options.
Thomas
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Not all monitors support changing the refresh rate.
Generally you need a fancy or semi-fancy one. My Panasonic VT-25 has a real 24 Hz mode.
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How do I check what my TV supports ?
It's a LG 32LB75, about 4 years old.
Or is it just so, if I can't select these settings in MC, then my TV dosn't support it.
Thomas
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Maybe look in the manual? Around page 35 where it says display resolutions?!
Looks like there's 2 HDMI modes (PC and DTV). PC mode only supports 59.98(sic), DTV mode does 1080 24,50,59.94,60 as well as a smattering of 1080i
You probably need to find out how to set the HDMI into DTV mode and then may need to reboot windows for it to reload a new EDID over HDMI for the TV. Then the drivers (hopefully) will find the 24p mode. Doesn't look like it supports 23.976 though.
SBR
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It looks like from the manual that that TV does not support 24 Hz at it's native resolution (1366 x 768), or in 720p mode (1280 x 720). It does have some sort of weird 24p mode for HDMI content at 1080p, but it is listed as a DTV mode, and the "PC" 1080p mode doesn't list that support. My guess is that they were pulling something silly to "support" 24p mode, especially since it isn't even a "real" 1080p display.
So, my guess is no.
If your TV does support it (and your video card can do it), it should show up as a refresh rate setting in both MC and in the Windows Displays Control Panel.
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An alternative is to build a custom resolution. If xplain is using an NVIDIA GPU, it is relatively simple to build a custom resolution with the required refresh rate. The question is whether the TV would support it. If it won't do 24 Hz, it might do 48 Hz or 47.952 Hz preferably. The other alternative in PowerStrip but that is rather more complicated. A modified EDID file can be created to make the PC 'think' the TV supports the required rate.
Nick.
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Thank you for your replies.
If your TV does support it (and your video card can do it), it should show up as a refresh rate setting in both MC and in the Windows Displays Control Panel.
They do show up in windows display control panel, I can make you a screenshot
when I get home from work.
But they don't in MC.
I can't help think, it's because I dont know enough about this,
and I'm missing something.
Will have a look at it again tonight.
Thomas
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If it won't do 24 Hz, it might do 48 Hz or 47.952 Hz preferably.
The only refresh rate the manual listed at native resolution (in "PC" mode, whatever that is) in his TV's manual was 59.98 (why it isn't .94 I don't know, but my guess is their timings aren't exact).
They do show up in windows display control panel, I can make you a screenshot
That's curious. Do they work?
Set it to 24p and see if it works, or if the screen freaks out.
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I wanted to play with these settings, but I must be missing something
I only have these option to choose
?? x ?? x 32 x 59
?? x ?? x 16 x 59
?? x ?? x 32 x 60
?? x ?? x 16 x 60
What am I missing, why don't I have these other options. I realise the smiley faces are being substituted for your question marks!
Thomas
Thomas,
Where, exactly, are you finding these options?
It is worth unchecking "Hide modes not supported by your display" in Windows Change resolution, Advanced settings, monitor.
Which version of Windows are you running? XP wasn't very forthcoming about rates other than 59 and 60 as far as I remember.
Nick.
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I have a vague memory of something similar a few months ago. I had display resolutions that came up in the windows dialog, but not in MC. I think there was an update to MC17 a little while after which loaded the display resolutions in a different way and it fixed it, or I may have done a clean install of the nvidia drivers, I can't remember now. I'll have to look back through my old posts .........
A little while later....
Either my memory fails me (not a surprise!) or I can't find a relevant post. It might have been the post about my amp doing silly things with the EDID (which got cured with a firmware update BTW). It was only occasionally reporting 23/24p support and so it was confusing Windows/NVIDIA panel in turn about whether it could actually do 23/24p or not.
Never mind.
Are you running the HDMI direct to TV or via an Amp? My amp was a pain in the backside before the last firmware update (actually still is a pain in the bottom regarding true 23p but that is a different matter altogether!)
SBR