INTERACT FORUM

Devices => PC's and Other Hardware => Topic started by: InflatableMouse on June 06, 2012, 06:29:22 am

Title: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: InflatableMouse on June 06, 2012, 06:29:22 am
After the holidays I plan on replacing my lovely HTPC. It's an ASRock ION 3D with 2 2TB USB 3.0 disks attached to it.

I like the ASRock, it does everything I want, albeit somewhat slow sometimes (downloading and decompressing for instance). It cannot transcode or other cpu intensive tasks.

The reason I want to replace it is because the 2 USB 3 drives do not support sleep. They never spin down and even when I turn the HTPC off, the disks keep on spinning. The ASRock is not meant to be a homeserver but it does somewhat function as one as well and I use it to backup stuff to as well.

I could get me a fancy NAS, but they are so incredibly overpriced. It's basically 125 dollars per drive bay. There are some cheaper than that but the speeds they reach are slower than my internet connection. A fast NAS is too expensive IMO and comes with less processing power and flexibility than a home server. Also, when I look at the web interfaces and configuration I get the impression much of it is still in beta rather than being finished products (like many media streamers). Support continuity is also a problem; I don't like risking a manufacturer dropping support for a model because they don't have or want to spend resources on a 2 year old NAS model and rather focus on their newest and latest model. Last but not least, the homeserver I listed below is less power hungry than a typical 4 bay NAS.

So this is something I'm thinking about. The case has 5 3,5" bays and allows for conversion of the 5,25" bays for 4 more 3,5" bays. I could expand it at a later stage with a good hardware SATA 600 RAID controller. The socket 1155 can be replaced with an i3, i5 or even i7 sandy bridge for more horsepower.

By the time I build it MSI may have a newer version of that mainboard that supports Ivy Bridge. In that case I'd go for that.

#ProductPriceSubtotal
1Intel Pentium G620€ 50,90€ 50,90
1Xigmatek Asgard II€ 33,30€ 33,30
1Antec Earthwatts EA-380D Green€ 42,19€ 42,19
1Crucial m4 CT128M4SSD2 128GB€ 106,06€ 106,06
1Team Elite 2 x 4 GB DDR3 1333 Mhz€ 38,40€ 38,40
1MSI B75MA-P45€ 59,95€ 59,95
Totaal€ 330,80

What I'm wondering about is what pros and cons you folks would see in this over a dedicated HTPC and separate NAS or even keeping the ASRock and add this as a server? This thing should be as silent as it can get so I could comfortably replace the HTPC with it in my Home Theater in the living room.

Also, I'm very interested in running ESXi (or Microsoft Hyper-V, I have the licenses). If I were to put an i7 in there at a later stage with 16GB (or 32 if possible) memory, how would a HTPC work as a virtual appliance on a hypervisor and would bitperfect audio output still be possible? Hardware accellerated video playback? Does anyone have any experience with that?
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: RC23 on June 07, 2012, 11:03:29 am
I have also as you decided to build a HTPC without NAS. A PC case offers enough possibilities for internal HDD drives and a quick SATA interface for data transfer.

The Intel Pentium G620 comes with a HD2000 GPU which delivers low power consumption as other Sandy or Ivy Bridge CPU´s.  http://www.anandtech.com/show/4524/the-sandy-bridge-pentium-review-pentium-g850-g840-g620-g620t-tested/3 (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4524/the-sandy-bridge-pentium-review-pentium-g850-g840-g620-g620t-tested/3)

... "The Pentium's on-die GPU isn't particularly impressive. It's the HD Graphics 2000 from the rest of the Sandy Bridge lineup without Quick Sync or any of the extra video features. I am particularly sad that Quick Sync is missing as it would've made these Pentiums extremely attractive for users that do a lot of video transcoding. Thankfully video decode acceleration and HD audio bitstreaming support remain, so if you're looking to build a cheap Sandy Bridge based HTPC and don't care about the frills these chips will work just fine." http://www.anandtech.com/show/4524/the-sandy-bridge-pentium-review-pentium-g850-g840-g620-g620t-tested/6

I like MSI boards for its low power consumption and relative stable Bios in connection with UEFI. I see you are coming from the Netherlands and therefore you speak probably German. Here a good visited MSI forum http://msi-forum.de/ A thread in English is also possible.

The MSI B75MA-P45 with its 1155 socket is future-proof for Ivy Bridge CPU´s. For my new HTPC I ordered a MSI Z77A-G43 board which comes in ATX size there I want to build in some other PCI and PCIe cards.

PCI --> Delock 3+1 Port Firewire card for Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 as audio interface
PCI --> D-Link DGE-530T as GB LAN card
PCIe --> TBS-6922 as HDTV card
PCIe --> TP-Link TL-WN781N as WLAN card

Do you hide the case under the table or will it be placed open? Here an alternative to your case: Fractal Arc Mini (66 Euro) which I would prefer. http://fractal-design.com/?view=product&category=2&prod=59 The Arc Mini model offers a fan controller for the 3 case fans and a well-thought-out case design. If the standard Arc Mini fans are too loud I would change the fans against Scythe Slip Stream fans 120x120x25mm, 500rpm, 41,6m³/h, 7.5dB(A), 5,90 Euro   http://geizhals.de/294637 This HTPC system is real silent and you can integrate the HTPC in your living room. Thereby a server PC will be dispensable.

With ESXi VMware I have no experience.


Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: InflatableMouse on June 07, 2012, 01:47:45 pm
Thanks RC23. I didn't realize that MSI B75 already supported Ivy Bridge. I might just put one in then.

Just wondering why you would put in an extra gigabit LAN card while there is one onboard and if you're going to wire it up, why would you need WLAN?

I also like your alternative for the casing. I'm going to have to have a better look at it and compare the 2. The new pc would be either in a cabinet (open at the back for ventilation) or if it doesn't fit would sit next to it behind the speakers out of sight.

I'm just realizing it doesn't have remote control support. I'd need to get that separately.
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: RC23 on June 07, 2012, 02:11:43 pm
Quote from: InflatableMouse
Just wondering why you would put in an extra gigabit LAN card while there is one onboard and if you're going to wire it up, why would you need WLAN?

An extra gigabit LAN card gives you more performance than the built in mainboard chip. The LAN connection is used for a second PC.

Quote
I'm just realizing it doesn't have remote control support. I'd need to get that separately.


Which remote control do you use? I will go with steering by wireless mouse.
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: InflatableMouse on June 09, 2012, 05:13:38 am
Currently I use the one that was supplied with the ASRock. A standard/default HTPC Windows Media Center compatible remote.

I need something to replace that if I replace the HTPC.

I may not replace the HTPC after all; I was looking at NAS prices yesterday and they've been coming down hard. I may just go for a separate server or NAS I'm not sure yet. Even with the lower prices Im still not convinced a NAS will give me what I want.
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: RC23 on June 09, 2012, 11:31:02 am
Quote from: InflatableMouse on June 09, 2012, 05:13:38 am
I may not replace the HTPC after all; I was looking at NAS prices yesterday and they've been coming down hard. I may just go for a separate server or NAS I'm not sure yet. Even with the lower prices Im still not convinced a NAS will give me what I want.

Before buying a NAS please check the actual problems of MC17 with NAS i.e. http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=71969.0

Why do you want to go with a NAS? LAN access for several PCs? In a PC you have SATA performance. USB 2.0 degrades this. If you are going to USB 3.0 or eSATA it would be the better way.

My coming Silverstone Case GD07 gets two Jou Jye SNT-135 mobile racks for quick change of 3.5" HDDs. If you have a free 5.25" slot you can do this. These mobile racks are able to shutdown the electrical connection of HDD by key. You can mount the mobile rack without cover panel and therefore the small internal fan of the mobile rack can be switched off. The HDDs will be cooled by air of the PC case fans.
http://www.jj-computer.com/Products/Storage/Mobile_racks/For_35_hdd/Sata/St135sata/
Got good recommendations on heise.de http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/?sr=263300,-1
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: InflatableMouse on June 10, 2012, 04:43:13 am
Well I understand the pro's of a server over a NAS. The *only* reason I would go for a NAS is that its set-and-forget. Another pc simply means more managing and I already do enough of that at work. When I come home I don't want to continue to be the systems engineer.

The HTPC has been kind to me, requiring very few reboots and very little maintenance. Replacing it would be fine, but adding another pc to manage, I don't know.

PS. Fractal Design just showed a few new models, a home server casing and a design HTPC case.
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: RC23 on June 10, 2012, 05:47:21 am
Quote from: InflatableMouse on June 10, 2012, 04:43:13 am
When I come home I don't want to continue to be the systems engineer.

Full encouragement.

My idea was only the concept to fit all hardware in one case.

Mainboards support dual monitor therefore you can use the PC in separate rooms by using HDMI or DVI. This will be the solution for me. For long cable distances (up to 30 meters) you can use cat6 cables in combination with a HDMI extender. http://www.logilink.org/showproduct/HD0102.htm?seticlanguage=en In a home cinema forum I found this solution driving a Full HD beamer with a 25 meter cable.

Quote
Fractal Design just showed a few new models, a home server casing and a design HTPC case.

Thanks for the info. Both new models are looking very well designed. http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&category=2&prod=94 and http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&category=2&prod=95

The Fractal Design Node 605 is similiar to the Silverstone GD07 which I actually have ordered. My pro of the GD07 is the cooling concept which blows the air from the botton to the HDDs and drives. http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/1918#1
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: RC23 on June 10, 2012, 10:20:24 am
The new Fractal models look interesting especially the 605 as ATX board model. The HDDs will be cooled by side fans. Therefore the HDDs are built-in parallel to the air flow.  :)

More infos as appetizer by video http://hexus.net/tv/show/2012/06/Fractal_Design_unveils_Node_Series_HTPC_chassis The lady delivers best sales talk.  ;)
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: InflatableMouse on June 22, 2012, 02:27:32 pm
I decided to go with a NAS after all; in the end I didn't want to add another pc to manage. A NAS is pretty much set and forget.

I got a Thecus N5200XXX. I asked the guy if it was particularly efficient storing p0rn, he didn't get it :S.

Anyways, it was cheap, over a 100 euros discount, dropping the price down to 339 euros. Harddisks were on discount too, so I got me 3 extra 2TB disks to complement the 2 I already own.

So far I'm quite content. It's a tad noisy but I can tuck it away upstairs somewhere.
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: InflatableMouse on June 30, 2012, 03:06:41 pm
I did build a new HTPC today  ::)

Antec EarthWatts EA-380 Green
Antec P180 Mini, mATX, Black
Asus P8Z77-M S1155 Z77 4xDDR3 mATX
Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB(2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9
Hauppauge Media Centre Remote kit
Intel Core i5-3570K, 3.40GHz, 6MB, HD4000, S1155
Nexus PWM, 120mm, 2000rpm, Clear
Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5" SATA3
Samsung SH-B123L 12xDVDRW/BR, SATA, Black
Scythe Mugen 2 Rev.B

Everything's installed and I'm impressed. The case is very quiet and overall the pc is very fast. It boots quite a bit quicker than my own machine even. I tucked the case away in a cabinet (has a few holes in the back) and CPU temps don't even reach 50C under normal load (no stress test). Fans don't even spin up. The remote is a standard MC RC-6.

I do have a little problem and I'm not sure how to fix it, but I'll post that in its own topic.
Title: Re: Planning a new HTPC
Post by: TelecomAndy on July 21, 2012, 01:42:13 am
Quote from: InflatableMouse on June 30, 2012, 03:06:41 pm
I did build a new HTPC today  ::)


Asus P8Z77-M S1155 Z77 4xDDR3 mATX


I do have a little problem and I'm not sure how to fix it, but I'll post that in its own topic.

I'm thinking of buying one of these, how do you find it?  Particularly interesteed in the Android Mobo control options...

Andy