INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 17 => Topic started by: mojave on June 13, 2012, 05:01:39 pm
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There is a thread (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1414565/multi-sub-processing#post_22129150) at AVS in which the poster asks for solutions for multiple sub processing. I decided to list all the ways that JRiver can be used for multiple sub processing. He replied,
I do appreciate the comprehensive reply, I'm sure your system and the JRiver aspect is great. The first time I saw you refer to JRiver/those products, I went and looked around and checked out what I could. Do you have a product link? I don't like the structure of the website I found,..but perhaps that's just me.
I can appreciate the apparent flexibility, and if I read something that compelled me to pursue it I consider it.
I decided to look at the JRiver home page and can't find any mention of bass management, parametric EQ, JRSS, zones, or any of the many audio features that I consider the strengths of JRiver. I appreciate the desire for simplicity, but when shopping for a product I want all the details. If I go looking for a receiver, I expect to be able to easily see a list of all of its features. I looked at the video section and there was a link to the wiki article on Red October. It was difficult to read and figure out at a glance what Red October was for. I think having a nice webpage for this would be beneficial.
Here is the list of things I mentioned in the AVS thread that I can do with JRiver:
- Use different crossover frequencies for all channels
- Use different crossover slopes for the high pass on each channel (12, 24, 36, 48 dB/octave)
- Use different crossover slopes for the low pass on the subwoofer(s) associated with each channel (12, 24, 36, 48 dB/octave)
- Use different crossover frequencies for high and low pass filters (mains could have a high pass at 40 Hz, but subs could have a low pass at 60 Hz)
- Keep channels full range, but still send their bass to subwoofer(s)
- Copy or move bass from other channels to the mains
- Copy bass from the mains to other channels and the subwoofer for a 2.1 system (utilizes the surrounds as more bass sources)
- Apply distance settings to any channel
- Adjust the distance on the fly while use the RTA in REW to ensure the best integration at the crossover
- Apply delay to any channel
- Reroute sound to any channel (useful for duplicating the LFE channel on additional channels for more subwoofers)
- Delay the mains more than the subs (useful for horn mains with close sealed subs)
- Unlimited parametric EQ filters with high/low pass filters, high/low shelf filters, and peaking filters
- Use PEQ filters on all frequencies below the Schroeder frequency regardless of which channels are producing the output
- Apply PEQ filters to any or all channels
- EQ a DIY sub to a flat frequency response close mic before EQing to the room
- EQ a sub only to the room and compare to the previous
- Adjust internal gain to prevent filters from causing clipping
- Compare two sets of filters while listening (any ringing artifacts?)
- Easy to implement Linkwitz Transform (just enter current Fs and Q and desired Fs and Q)
- Use a reverse Linkwitz Transform to lower the bass curve if you have low Fs drivers and too much room gain
- Adjust the lipsync
- Apply settings based on media type (for example, you could have different audio, video, and music video settings)
- Use two front subwoofers in stereo for music, but route all bass to them for video
- Add 10dB of gain to the LFE channel for those SACD's or DVD-Audio's that are mastered incorrectly
- Limiter and Clip Protection
- Sub harmonizer with the addition of Voxengo's LF Max Punch Sub harmonizer (http://www.voxengo.com/product/lfmaxpunch/) VST plugin
- 64-bit processing for all DSP
- Advanced volume protection with ability to set maximum system volume and reference level
- Ability to route all computer audio through DSP (youtube, internet, games, etc.)
- Visually see what is happening in any channel using VST plugins for spectograms and spectrum analyzers
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That's a great post, Mojave. Thanks.
I appreciate the advice, too. We're never sure where to draw the line between addressing the needs of typical users and those of advanced users. It's usually a compromise.
I'll add your list to the wiki.
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Thanks for the really good list.
I didn't know we could half that stuff :P
Seriously, we arm wrestle about how technical the webpage should be. At times we've had huge lists of features, but I think people's eyes gloss over after five or six things. I'd like my wife to be able to read it and understand it.
To sort of prove my point, I think that list scared the guy. He replied "any level of added operational complexity is a non-starter."
[edit -- Jim posted while I was typing]
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How about a feature list link. This way if a user wants to see the features they would click on the link. Also this way the front page will not be cluttered.
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I think it would look a little intimidating.
Here, for example, is the list of the components. Each one of these has a set of features.
http://www.jriver.com/whitepapers/components.html
Bass management isn't even on it. ;)
And ... I think most people don't read much before they try a program. The most influential thing they will probably read is a recommendation like mojave's (desertdome on AVSforum). A few positive words mean more than a very long list.
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I noticed this week at What'sBestForum (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6967-Nyal-Mellor) that a member there was using JRiver with a VST plugin for equalization. I PM'd him and told him to try the built in equalizer in JRiver. I think the VST plugin was recommended by the acoustician that was helping him because the acoustician probably didn't know JRiver could handle the EQ. It isn't always users that need to know about the product.
When researching a product, I personally like web pages that drill down to more pages that have more detail. Once the detail level stops, there is usually a manual in pdf format that I can download. I then search the manual using keywords to find more features or understand how they are implemented.
To sort of prove my point, I think that list scared the guy. He replied "any level of added operational complexity is a non-starter."
I think he was referring more to having an HTPC in his system and adding a device that is used for playback besides his Blu-ray player. He also said in response to me, "Now system optimizing complexity, that's not really an issue." FOH (Front of House), posts on several other forums I follow and loves complex stuff. As his user name suggests, he used to be involved in live mixing (rock concerts, etc.) and he also worked in mobile control rooms for the NFL and NCAA.
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The first thing I look for is screen shots and demonstration videos. If I'm interested after that, I download and try it. Those few images on the web page is in my opinion not enough, and does not do MC justice. Feature lists are also important, but as we see on the list of components, it not easy to maintain and upgrade. There's already a lot missing there. And if this is expanded to the most significant features of each component, the list will be massive. Almost impossible to maintain I think.
I think that some more screen shots with descriptions would go a long way. Perhaps add some feature lists of the most significant features together with the screen shots. Also remember to take images of the impressive screens. Perhaps some customized views from some of the more advanced users.
There's been some talk about people creating demonstration/tutorial videos for MC. I really hope that this is done one day. I would be great.
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Mojave , great list, thanks.
For the person who likes to experiment
If you need to manipulate the sound, you can use JRiver to modify playback. Upmixing, downmixing, bitdepth, speaker control. Because the audio path is fully 64 bit, any adjustments to volume, bitdepth and sample-rate are mathematically lossless.
http://www.jriver.com/audio.html
This I do think is a nice place to list the features as mentioned by Mojave but not in technical terms but in functional terms like Digital Room Correction, Active crossovers, Parametric equalizer.
Then a link to a new page describing this features in more detail.