INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 17 => Topic started by: Von on August 02, 2012, 04:56:35 pm
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I have playlists that function as virtual albums. (Songs from actual albums combined to make up another album.) For instance, if you have all studio albums by an artist, you often have all the songs that will be on a greatest hits collection. So there's no need to buy that collection, but it might still be nice to "have it" in your collection.
Personally, I often like to relate to albums when using MC. That's why I would like to be able to view a playlist as an album, with appropriate album art as well. Can I do this on a playlist level, without having to create duplicate files? Any ideas?
I actually posted the question here http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=33168.0 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=33168.0) more than six years ago, but I never got a reply. :(
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You can do this in a view (a playlist is just a file list).
Create a new user library field called Virtual Album, and for the tracks, enter the name you want to give to the collection of tracks. In your view, Group By the new field Virtual Album.
You can use multiple virtual album names - just separate the names with semicolons. Add a new user field called Virtual Albums Group Hdr as an expression type, with the value [Virtual Album]&datatype=[list], and then Group By this field instead of Virtual Album.
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Edit: you can simplify and enhance this.
Instead of creating the two fields, just create Virtual Album, but make it of Type List, and edit type List. Use this field for Categories or Group By. Adding tracks to albums should be easier for you too.
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You might want to add a [Virtual Album Track #] field as well and sort inside groups by that field to get the correct track order in the virtual album. You can also add a Virtual album year/date field to get the release date displayed.
To get the album art displayed for the virtual album, add a dummy file with a very short bit of silence to your library/the virtual album and give that file [Virtual Album Track #] = 0. Embed the album art for the virtual album in that dummy file. In standard view MC will display the cover art embedded in the very first track as album thumbnail.
Doing this might get easier in the future when a feature called particles gets more developed.
I do the opposite, i.e. make original albums from compilation or reissue albums I have. But since I find disc space cheap I just make a copy of the files and put them in a separate folder on the hard disc with the proper tagging for the original album.
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The more I think about this, the more complicated it gets. How are the virtual album going to be displayed with correct release year and track order among the "real" albums? It is easy to get a nice view with only virtual albums, but I do no think that this is what the OP is really after.
I would recommend just copying the files if you have the disc space.
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Thank you both for your input! I will try out the different approaches during the weekend.
Yes, I would prefer the release year, track numbers etc to change according to each virtual album. At the same time, I don't think I want a track that appears on a number of different virtual albums to be played more than others in random mode, for example. If it wasn't for that, I might be happy with just creating multiple copies of the files and tag them accordingly. I just want to be able to view them and access them as though I had the actual album in my collection.
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A possibility is to combine/encode the Track #, Release Date and Album Title all in the Virtual Album field per track, and allow the view to break them apart for display/grouping purposes.
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If you do not want the greatest hits to play more often than other songs, you can add an additional genre to the compilation albums and exclude that genre from smartlists. Had you owned all albums you would have had the same issue.
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Had you owned all albums you would have had the same issue.
I know... I guess what I want doesn't make sense in some ways, but a lot of sense in other ways! 8)
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A possibility is to combine/encode the Track #, Release Date and Album Title all in the Virtual Album field per track, and allow the view to break them apart for display/grouping purposes.
This idea intrigued me—as a possible means for including virtual albums in a regular view (i.e., along with real albums). That was easy enough to do by populating the list field [Album.v] with [Album Artist (auto)] • [Released] • [Album], and then grouping by [Album.v]. Any '{Album Artist} • {Released} • {Virtual Album}' added to [Album.v] for the tracks of the virtual album would result in it being listed as well.
This, of course, only displays the same tracks grouped as a different album. [Album] and any other information about the album (including the cover) remains that of the original album. I hadn't thought much about that, but I actually prefer it, especially when the virtual album is a compilation of tracks from original albums. It's more interesting to see where they came from than all being tagged as a some compilation release. It's also easy to turn any playlist into a virtual album—just by adding it to [Album.v] for the member tracks. Or make a 'My Favourites' or 'Top Ten' for any artist just by selecting the tracks and tagging them.
But there's one essential element I can't figure out. That's how to put the tracks of a virtual album in same order as album it's trying to mimic (or any particular order). It's easy enough to record the sequence. I did that by creating another list field [Track #.v] populated with '[Album Artist (auto)] • [Released] • [Album] • {Track #}'. But then there's no way (I can see) to differentiate groups and choose the applicable value from [Track #.v] for sorting. [Track #.v] could be a single value available for sorting (within groups) manually, but even that crappy solution would only handle one virtual album per track. :-\
Consider this my official call for a Stupid MC Tricks challenge. ;)
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C'mon guys! It wouldn't be stupid or a challenge if it weren't seemingly impossible. ;)
Supplementary Challenge: Having created virtual albums and enabled them in a view (i.e., grouping by the list that includes them), what rule would you use to exclude them? To show only virtual albums?
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I have already said that this was complicated and recommended to just copy and re-tag the files.
As for including and excluding the virtual albums using your method, I would consider using ListItem() and be sure to always put the real album as the very first item. As for the tracknumbers, I have no idea.
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I recently wanted to have virtual demo clip playlists showing up as movies. For example, I wanted Surround, Bass, Visuals, Music, and Animation as virtual movies containing clips. The clips were actually Particles.
I found a simple way was to tag my clips with a media sub-type of TV Show. I used Demo Clips as the Series and used Surround, Bass, etc. as Seasons. I left them in alphabetical order, but to change the order I could have used Episode and numbered them.
I haven't put these in Video > Movies since Video > Shows is fine for me. There may be a way to use this method and make virtual albums that show up in Music.
The only problem I've had so far is that the cover art doesn't want to apply to my Series and Season.
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But there's one essential element I can't figure out. That's how to put the tracks of a virtual album in same order as album it's trying to mimic
I was temporarily thrown off by the virtual playlist question, but I recovered quickly. ;D
Why aren't you just creating particles of your audio files and tagging them as the new album?
To test I just created a new Elton John album using Particles from several other albums. I tagged with a new album name and gave new track numbers. JRiver found new cover art for the album. Easy, and works with all existing views.
Supplementary Challenge: Having created virtual albums and enabled them in a view (i.e., grouping by the list that includes them), what rule would you use to exclude them? To show only virtual albums?
Only include albums with a Stack Tag of Particle.
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JRiver found new cover art for the album. Easy, and works with all existing views.
Are you saying that you can save separate cover art for your audio file particles? That did not work when I tried it. What are your options for saving audio cover art (as folder.jpg and inside file)? What happens if you do a update library from file tags on the particles? That destroyed my tagging when I tried it. The particles may have become smarter since I last tried them out.
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I save cover art in a folder. I checked and cover art was in there for my new virtual album. I also store images in the file's tag.
I did an "Update Library (from tags)" on the Particles and it reset them to the original tag info.
I think there should be an option added to lock Particle tags or they should be locked as the default.
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Thanks for the answers. I might try particles again. I save cover art (inside file and) as folder.jpg in the music file folder and that did not work. Maybe it works now if I change that to save in designated folder. I often do update library from file tags and I am sure I will forget to check that no particles are selected and destroy my tagging.
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I have already said that this was complicated and recommended to just copy and re-tag the files.
I know. But this is the stupid trick. ;D
As for including and excluding the virtual albums using your method, I would consider using ListItem() and be sure to always put the real album as the very first item. As for the tracknumbers, I have no idea.
What I've done is essentially this...
(Warning: Not for those demanding elegance and/or speedy refreshes.)
- Saved [Artist] • [Album] • [Track #] in a list field [Album.Track.v], where
- the first item is created from the actual values;
- the subsequent items are for virtual albums...
- ...normally added by tagging a temporary [Order] field with the track numbers, and then setting [Album.Track.v] = '[Album.Track.v]; Artist • Album • [Order]'; and then
- if necessary, the virtual album list items are moved to the same list position by adding dummy items (v1, v2...) to the unused positions—see #3.
- An expression field [Album.v] uses ListItem() to remove the track # elements from [Album.Track.v], and this is used as the Group by field.
- Not having found a better solution for sorting, I've added expression columns to the view: ListItem(ListItem([Album.Track.v], n), 2, •), where n is the virtual album list position. It is then visually clear which of these columns holds the track numbers for a particular virtual album, which can then be sorted using the header Sort inside groups by...
- [Album.v] uses a global variable (set in a pane) to selectively create Real, Virtual or All albums.
- Optionally, I include a dummy track 0 for the virtual album. This is used to attach the cover and record meta data (album rating, review, etc.).
The screenshot shows my now primary view with a virtual album for the AC/DC compilation Plug Me In (http://www.allmusic.com/album/plug-me-in-mw0001166347). A dummy track is included. Note it's clear the track order is recorded in list position 3 (because there's a value for every track), so I've sorted within groups by that column.
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Why aren't you just creating particles of your audio files and tagging them as the new album?
This is the kind of suggestion I was fishing for—as it's clear the approach I've tried is not very elegant or efficient. But I've been avoiding reliance on Particles until some of the rough edges are resolved. The particle tags being updated to those of the original file seems to be a pitfall, but my method doesn't even attempt to tag tracks with virtual album data. That can be done using a dummy track—as I have done. But if the [Album] values are updated to actual, the virtual album will go 'poof'... :-\
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I think you have proved what I said: It is complicated.
How did you get MC to display 0 for the dummy track? Zero, or nowadays also near zero, values are for me displayed as blanks in number type fields.
And why is the large thumbnail not taken from (only) the dummy file in your view? MC does this for me automatically (selects as thumbnail the cover art embedded in the very first file in the group).
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I think you have proved what I said: It is complicated.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. I would welcome a more complicated solution that is less complicated to use. But there doesn't seem to be any other solution. It is more complicated to use than a playlist, but I seldom use or even look at playlists I've created for this purpose—because they can't be displayed in a view along with real albums. I believe this is main issue for the OP as well.
How did you get MC to display 0 for the dummy track?
It's extracted from a string using ListIem(), so it's probably handled as a string.
And why is the large thumbnail not taken from (only) the dummy file in your view?
That behaviour probably depends on the group being recognized as an album. This, being a grouping of files from different folders, isn't an album according to MC's logic.
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OK, thanks for the explanations.