INTERACT FORUM

Windows => JRiver Media Center 33 for Windows => Topic started by: JimH on December 19, 2013, 11:17:51 am

Title: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on December 19, 2013, 11:17:51 am

We've seen a lot of problems caused by antivirus software.  For a number of years, I've just added them to the Weird and Wonderful (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24031.0) thread.  But lately, it seems to be getting worse, so I'm starting this thread to document them separately.

Windows Defender
If you're using Windows 10 or above, Windows Defender is running and it must be configured to allow MC to run.  Please see Taming Windows Defender (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114101.0.html)  Thanks to Awesome Donkey for his work on the thread!

JRiver recommends using only Windows Defender (aka Microsoft Defender) for antivirus protection on Win10.

Disabling the AV software is often not enough.  You must uninstall it to be sure that it isn't causing a problem.  If this test fixes the problem, then you know that the AV software must be configured to allow MC's operation.

AV software should not be checking media files in any case.

Crash with DLNA
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86061.msg588745#msg588745

Visual C++ Runtime Error
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=85545.msg588381#msg588381

Stuttering Video
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83473.msg570320#msg570320

Help of finding causes of instability
Glynor made a nice thread on the subject:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86699.0

Title: Re: Antivirus Problems
Post by: JimH on December 25, 2013, 07:36:40 am

Crash importing FLAC
Bitdefender again.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=85837.msg589566#msg589566

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: jkrzok on January 17, 2014, 01:11:42 pm

Webroot issues with video

With the upgrade to 104 I found that I could no longer play video in MC. Tried playing with the settings and an install and reinstall. No go with either. Then I shut down Webroot and videos played again. After launching Webroot I went into identity protection settings, application settings and selecting "protect" for all things JRiver, including an entry I had never seen before for a "lav" plugin. Sorry I can't remember more specifics on this entry as it's no longer listed in Webroot.

This is basically the same solution to the problem where you can't paste into MC after any MC update.

Perhaps maybe it's all just a coincidence and there's some other problem that prevented video playback but I figure I'd still report my situation here. Now to raise this issue with Webroot.

Webroot post:
https://community.webroot.com/t5/Webroot-SecureAnywhere-Complete/JRiver-Media-Center-and-Identity-protection/td-p/77605

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on January 19, 2014, 08:09:02 am

MC slow when used with NAS drive
Changing a Microsoft Security Essentials setting solved it:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70778.msg593864#msg593864

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on January 21, 2014, 12:38:24 pm

MC appears to hang
Another BitDefender problem:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86861.msg594323#msg594323

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on February 04, 2014, 04:25:46 pm

Song starts to play, then stops
Uninstalling Avast fixed it:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86960.msg597251#msg597251

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: klauscr on February 07, 2014, 11:43:04 am

Gizmo won't connect
Kaspersky AV for Android prevents GIZMO from connecting to MC;
Connection succeeds when "Web Protection" is disabled in Kaspersky.

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on February 09, 2014, 01:46:01 pm

MC won't install
Turning off antivirus program solved it.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87351.msg598220#msg598220

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on March 19, 2014, 09:41:29 pm

MC Crashes Every Day
Uninstalling avast solved it.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87800.msg604591#msg604591

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 10, 2014, 02:25:23 pm

madVR Download Failed
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=88626.msg607938#msg607938

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 17, 2014, 02:05:30 pm

Can't watch video
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=88749.0

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 20, 2014, 12:13:32 pm

Audio drops out
Removing webroot fixed it.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=88806.msg609224#msg609224

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 10, 2014, 07:18:45 am

Crashes
Bitdefender again.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89168.msg612176#msg612176

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 19, 2014, 09:45:41 pm

Several problems
Norton
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89314.msg613305#msg613305

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on June 02, 2014, 07:28:23 am

DLNA Server Unstable
Bitdefender again
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86061.msg614891#msg614891

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 25, 2014, 06:50:30 am

Gizmo won't connect after new install
Norton
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=91249.msg627813#msg627813

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on September 14, 2014, 08:57:23 am

JRtools won't run
Eset Security
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=91827.msg631805#msg631805

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 14, 2015, 06:59:56 am

Can't purchase
Kaspersky
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=96938.0

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 14, 2015, 07:02:29 am

Failed to Load jrtools
Avast
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=97419.msg673821#msg673821

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 01, 2015, 06:31:33 am

JRemote stopped working after installing Windows 10
Uninstalling McCaffee fixed it.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99104.msg686146#msg686146

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 20, 2015, 01:19:32 am

Stuttering playback and high CPU Usage
Microsoft antivirus
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99553.0

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 20, 2015, 01:30:37 am

TV Problems
Norton
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99523.msg689338#msg689338

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 23, 2015, 12:43:28 am

MC Hangs on Close
Kaspersky did it.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99507.msg689852;topicseen#msg689852

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 25, 2015, 01:59:01 am

Video Hesitation
Uninstalling AVG Antivirus fixed it:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99634.msg690191#msg690191

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on September 09, 2015, 01:48:55 pm

Playback problem
McAfee
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99904.msg692898#msg692898

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on October 02, 2015, 06:40:19 pm

MC won't download LAV filters
SonicWall antivirus:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100575.msg697522#msg697522

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on October 05, 2015, 12:04:06 pm

Crashes when tagging
Qihoo 360 antivirus
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=99655.msg697893#msg697893

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on October 11, 2015, 06:17:10 am

Windows Explorer dies when MC runs
Webroot
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100712.msg698630#msg698630

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on October 27, 2015, 03:12:39 am

Sound Problem Watching TV
Norton
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=101021.msg700687#msg700687

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on November 06, 2015, 03:00:01 am

EPG won't work
Norton blocked mc2xml
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100686.msg698294#msg698294

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on January 04, 2016, 11:14:37 am

Intermittent audio buffering
Bitdefender
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=102409.msg710162#msg710162

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 24, 2016, 04:50:51 am

License Install Problem
Symantec antivirus was the probable cause.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=104509.msg726524#msg726524

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 30, 2016, 07:33:05 am

JRiver exe deleted
Kaspersky
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=104598.msg727202#msg727202

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on June 08, 2016, 06:22:09 pm

MC won't install
Uninstalling the AV software fixed it.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=105375.msg733294#msg733294

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on June 14, 2016, 08:03:22 am

DSP Settings Lost
Antivirus
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=105469.msg733958#msg733958

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 07, 2016, 12:11:09 am

Crashes
Kaspersky
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106386.msg739789#msg739789

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on September 09, 2016, 03:35:54 pm

Computer freezes when connected to Naim DAC
Kaspersky
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,107003.msg743415.html#msg743415

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: RoderickGI on February 03, 2017, 02:36:02 pm

Just a heads up. Norton 360 has suddenly decided that JRShellExt.dll is a problem, and removed it from my system.

Naturally I have restored it. It was only rejected based on Reputation anyway, not for doing anything wrong.

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on September 06, 2017, 07:07:44 pm

Can't download MP3 encoder
Changing antivirus settings fixed it.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112131.msg774977.html#msg774977

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on October 06, 2017, 07:30:57 am

Crashes
Bitdefender was the cause.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112547.msg778378.html#msg778378

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on October 06, 2017, 08:20:25 pm

In the Egregious Behavior Department, this is worth a read:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112547.msg778527.html#msg778527

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on October 07, 2017, 09:22:37 pm

Can't load MC on Win10
Norton...
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111675.msg778596.html#msg778596

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on October 14, 2017, 06:10:15 pm

Install hangs
Windows Defender
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112711.msg779528.html#msg779528

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on November 02, 2017, 09:15:10 am

ntdll.dll crash
Bitdefender
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,112547.msg778527.html#msg778527

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on December 06, 2017, 02:33:37 am

High CPU Usage
Bitdefender antivirus
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113354.msg784440.html#msg784440

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on December 22, 2017, 12:19:33 am

Audio Pausing after Update
Norton
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113698.0.html

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on December 29, 2017, 04:29:37 am

Files can't be imported
Bitdefender was preventing them from being downloaded:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113774.msg786410.html#msg786410

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on January 13, 2018, 06:29:13 am

Sound cuts off briefly
Norton
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114014.0.html

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on January 27, 2018, 11:34:52 am

MC suddenly can't write to directory
Avast
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113625.msg789311.html#msg789311

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 19, 2018, 06:10:09 pm

JRemote doesn't work with new MC
McAfee antivirus
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115477.0.html

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 14, 2018, 06:56:37 am

Can't Change Folder for Ripping
Bitdefender
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115923.msg801080.html#msg801080

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 14, 2018, 06:16:15 pm

SoundSpectrum's G-Force Won't Run
An obscure Windows Defender setting.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115823.msg801240.html#msg801240

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on June 01, 2018, 11:00:38 am

Failed to install LAV splitter for video
Norton
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,116173.msg803002.html#msg803002

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on July 05, 2018, 02:44:50 pm

Audio File Location Problem
Bitdefender
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,116593.msg805928.html#msg805928

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on July 20, 2018, 03:12:42 am

Slow response playing music from a NAS
Avast
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,116777.msg807514.html#msg807514

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 18, 2018, 11:34:39 pm

MC won't start
Norton
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,117061.msg809843.html#msg809843

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: audioriver on January 11, 2019, 12:24:52 pm

Video stuttering with hardware deinterlacing
Emsisoft Anti-Malware (solved with manual exclusions)
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=118891

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on January 17, 2019, 07:58:51 pm

MC24 Won't Install
Antivirus
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,119089.0.html

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 19, 2019, 05:52:11 pm

Antivirus programs are having trouble with Microsoft's April 9th Windows update

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/04/latest-windows-patch-having-problems-with-a-growing-number-of-anti-virus-software/

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on June 01, 2019, 05:03:05 pm

Install fails during extraction
Malwarebytes
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,120903.msg835877.html#msg835877

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on November 21, 2019, 06:10:51 am

MC Hangs when Media Network is started
Windows Defender settings
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,123063.msg852334.html#msg852334

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on December 07, 2019, 01:37:01 pm

Can't uninstall MC
Disabling antivirus fixed it.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,123262.msg853832.html#msg853832

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on February 17, 2020, 02:41:55 pm

Errors when ripping
Windows Defender
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,124226.msg860155.html#msg860155

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on February 25, 2020, 01:07:48 pm

Small skips in audio
Windows Defender
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,124249.msg860691.html#msg860691

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on March 04, 2020, 02:48:30 pm

MC Hangs
Malwarebytes
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,124381.msg861280.html#msg861280

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: gurrenlagaan on March 11, 2020, 10:32:42 pm

Yep, I have Win10 + Sophos.  When I tried a file transfer to an external device, sophos closed MC.  I had to add an exception.

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 25, 2020, 06:27:07 am

Audio skips
Malwarebytes (twice)
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,125042.msg865893.html#msg865893

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 03, 2020, 09:03:24 am

Crashes while importing
Windows Defender configuration stopped it:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,125163.msg866953.html#msg866953

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: CPW0802 on June 29, 2020, 06:08:04 am

Never had this issue before.  After upgrading from MC25 to MC26, i notice windows defender is creating issues.  High CPU usage, stuttering video and unresponsive MC26.   I followed the suggestions of turning off scanning and exempting MC26 files and directories, with no success. 

I finally resorted to disabling real time protection. 

MC26 is now back to normal, very snappy, CPU usage is sub 30% when viewing / recording etc.  Previously it was up to 50%, with defender hovering at about 20% all the time.

I’m not sure what has changed between MC25 and MC26, but is a Microsoft or JRiver issue.

I hope there is a solution, as im running a system (be it only a media centre and not used for general access) without antivirus protection.

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: Awesome Donkey on June 29, 2020, 06:21:18 am

It's a Windows issue. The solution is to redo the exclusions list for MC26 in Windows Defender.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114101.0.html

Each major version of Media Center is its own version/install, so that's why exclusions made for MC25 won't work for MC26 and why Windows Defender starts messing with it like this.

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on September 23, 2020, 07:45:32 am

MC Won't Install
Windows Defender, maybe a window hidden by other programs
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,126950.msg880487.html#msg880487

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 11, 2021, 07:12:01 pm

DLNA Renderer works on old version but not on new versions
Bitdefender
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129390.msg898103.html#msg898103

Another similar problem, possibly Kaspersky:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129486.msg898539.html#msg898539

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on July 29, 2021, 08:31:07 am

madVR Settings Lost
Probable malwarebytes problem:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130194.msg903140.html#msg903140

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on November 25, 2021, 08:00:36 am

Audio Dropouts
Uninstalling BitDefender fixed the skips.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,131212.msg910521.html#msg910521

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on March 12, 2022, 08:55:25 am

CD Lookup Fails
Malwarebytes problem:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132394.msg917602.html#msg917602

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on March 16, 2022, 09:29:29 pm

DLNA Renderer Won't Appear in MC
Windows Defender:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132481.msg918001.html#msg918001

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 19, 2022, 05:05:46 pm

MC29 won't install
Antivirus.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,133086.msg922146.html#msg922146

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on July 21, 2022, 07:14:54 am

Install Problems
McAffee prevented Edge browser engine from being installed.  Probably affected data migration from an earlier version of MC.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,131910.msg925261.html#msg925261

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on March 30, 2023, 06:40:09 am

DLNA Servers Don't Always Appear
McAfee firewall was blocking SSDP.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135511.msg939104.html#msg939104

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on April 04, 2023, 01:28:17 am

Spectrum Analyzer Not Smooth
Zone Alarm Antivirus
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135574.msg939358.html#msg939358

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on May 29, 2023, 12:37:47 am

Installing MC31 Fails
Norton false positive:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135683.msg942277.html#msg942277

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 12, 2023, 12:40:37 am

Bit Defender and Emsisoft Flag JRiver
False positives:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136712.msg947673.html#msg947673

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on December 21, 2023, 03:57:29 pm

File could not be found
McAfee
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,137679.msg954782.html#msg954782

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on December 24, 2023, 01:07:48 am

Panel Won't Connect
McAfee
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,137696.msg954893.html#msg954893

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on January 24, 2024, 12:57:30 am

Crash after 30 seconds
Malwarebytes
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,137807.msg956667.html#msg956667

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on January 28, 2024, 02:03:43 am

There was a problem deleting files
Norton
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,138009.msg957054.html#msg957054

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on July 19, 2024, 07:24:22 am

Crowdstrike update takes global Internet down:
https://apnews.com/live/internet-global-outage-crowdstrike-microsoft-downtime

Could be the cause of our Paypal problems yesterday.

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on August 18, 2024, 06:03:04 pm

Problem Checking for Updates and other misc problems.
Bitdefender's firewall:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,139486.msg967283.html#msg967283

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on September 27, 2024, 01:22:15 am

Kaspersky Replaces Itself
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,139766.msg969142.html#msg969142

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on November 14, 2024, 07:32:56 am

MC is Slow on Startup
Spybot and Destroy was causing it.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,139027.msg971309.html#msg971309

Title: Re: Antivirus (AV) Problems
Post by: JimH on March 08, 2025, 08:27:14 pm

Import is Slow
malwarbytes again:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,140781.msg976436.html#msg976436