Post by: Harry The Hipster on February 27, 2002, 01:09:04 am
- ZDnet.....
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-845889.html
BTW, the ndustry's proposed response to the latest P2P development (swapping .zip files): load them with viruses that kill the user's drive. Creative minds at work, giving the consumer what they want.
HTH
Post by: zevele1 on February 27, 2002, 01:22:11 am
Do they know that there is still non virtual bullets ?
Post by: Harry|PLS|The|PLS|Hipster on February 27, 2002, 01:33:16 am
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. "
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
HTH
Post by: RAVMAN on February 27, 2002, 03:35:38 am
I would gladly pay for music online if I could search well known artists albums, pick the songs I want, pay for them (yes I would pay for high quality files), download them in a format that does not expire and can be burned to CD so it can be played any where. This mode of distribution would be much cheaper than the current model of CD in fancy store with fancy packaging but all I ask is that you pass the savings on to me. I can burn my own CD and print my own album cover.
The greedy record companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They can't stop file sharing so why don't they offer a service that people would really buy into. Their current offering is limited downloads, limited number of plays, limited if any CD burning at a premium price. No chance of success. Again, give us what we really want!
My 2 cents.
Post by: JimH on February 27, 2002, 04:23:28 am
1. Every time a file is copied, there is a "mechanical" royalty due to the song writer/song publisher of 7 3/4 cents. This means that if you download 100 tracks, there is a royalty payment of $7.75 due. That covers the song writer, but doesn't pay the record label who recorded the song. So, it's safe to say that there will be at least another $7.75 due. Together, that makes our cost $15.50. Assuming we want to eat, we have to charge something like $25 to $30. So that sets the minimum cost for a reasonable number of downloads.
2. Maybe even a worse problem -- most contracts record labels have (if they can find them) don't cover the electronic distribution of the tracks. This means that they have to go through their entire catalog and verify that they have the right or try to acquire the right through negotiation. A long, tedious process.
3. We can't sell anything until piracy is brought to a more "reasonable" level. If you can get it easily for free in the privacy of your own home, are you going to pay? Perhaps a few will.
So, to blame the wicked industry is an over simplification. They aren't Snow White but they aren't the Evil Empire. Just as consumers aren't Pirates or Princes, in spite of how the record industry is behaving.
It might help a lot if the rhetoric were toned down on both sides.
Post by: zevele1 on February 27, 2002, 05:20:40 am
good to have the other side telling
You tell us that a fair deal from you will tag at around $30 for 100 songs.It is not cheap.I will not take a 12 months subscription at this price.It is cheaper than 7 cds-more or less 100 songs- but not that much if you think about sleeves,lyrics and sound quality
I do believe that it has to cost much less.Number will lead to the same earning.Better to get one million times 2 cents than 100 times $10
have look at www.listen.com ,you will see that there is a way
Post by: Doof on February 27, 2002, 05:26:30 am
That's right in line with what I've been saying is a fair price all along.
Post by: zevele1 on February 27, 2002, 05:33:53 am
Me to.We will spend $50 a year on it.Now put $25 a month unlimited-$120 for 6 months-special bargain 4 months free for one year subscription.How much you will ready to spend on it?
Post by: JimH on February 27, 2002, 07:32:05 am
I hold you responsible.
Post by: KingSparta on February 27, 2002, 07:36:39 am
Post by: Doof on February 27, 2002, 07:40:17 am
I think someone here once posted a method to eliminate the pain of an ingrown toenail. Cut out a triangular piece from the middle. Apparently, that sets up forces inside the nail which result in the nail growing toward the center and pulling away form the painfull edges.
That was me.
Post by: troup on February 27, 2002, 08:47:10 am
Post by: KingSparta on February 27, 2002, 09:14:59 am
Who: #6
Show: the Prisoner
Date: 1966
Post by: zevele1 on February 27, 2002, 09:19:56 am
on road 66
Post by: KingSparta on February 27, 2002, 02:41:10 pm
>>I was mad about it
Mad About what?
Post by: Harry|PLS|the|PLS|Hipster on February 27, 2002, 03:00:33 pm
HTH
Post by: RAVMAN on February 27, 2002, 03:48:44 pm
Let me make it clear, I would much rather use a pay service for high quality files than rely on Morpheus loaded with viruses, spyware (not Morpheus), etc. Only problem there isn't any out there yet that offer a large selection, reasonable price, unlimited plays, and burnable to CD at any price.
Post by: Michael Horton on February 27, 2002, 03:59:10 pm
Post by: Charlemagne 8 on February 27, 2002, 04:08:35 pm
The price varies according to store, artist, length of CD, etc. $20 is a pretty good ballpark average. $18 is closer. Bites don't it.
CVIII
Post by: Michael Horton on February 27, 2002, 04:18:55 pm
my only response is: half.com, eBay and Amazon (sells used cds now)
someone wake me up when they average $1
Post by: zevele1 on February 28, 2002, 03:49:19 am
I was mad about The Prisoner.Do you know if it is on DVD
Post by: zevele1 on February 28, 2002, 03:57:43 am
Post by: KingSparta on February 28, 2002, 08:14:21 am
http://www.mp3grandcentral.net/signup.html
never heard of it.
Post by: Michael Horton on February 28, 2002, 08:28:32 am
Post by: Harry The Hipster on February 28, 2002, 09:01:38 am
HTH
Post by: zevele1 on February 28, 2002, 09:02:15 am
It is more or less kind of a ripp of.In fact they just connect you to Audiogalaxy,Imesh,Kaza and so on.I have an adress with millions of second hand cds.I will try to find where i put it
Post by: zevele1 on February 28, 2002, 09:10:27 am
www.duffelbag.com is a good place for cut out,oop,second hand.They have a good and friendly service
Post by: cjdshaw on February 28, 2002, 10:06:55 am
Post by: Charlemagne 8 on February 28, 2002, 03:32:24 pm
These guys were partners. Kazaa changed their software without informing Morpheus. Now the above come-on at the Kazaa site. It appears to be kind of low down to me.
CVIII
Post by: KingSparta on February 28, 2002, 03:59:11 pm
>>I'm confused by the whole Morpheus thing. Wasn't the point of a p2p network
>>that it wasn't reliant on a central server and so couldn't be shut down?
Good Point.
I was reading that the new version is Moving Morpheus users to a Gnutella-based network
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-845889.html
Post by: Charlemagne 8 on March 01, 2002, 04:35:55 pm
Post by: KingSparta on March 01, 2002, 04:39:56 pm
Post by: RAVMAN on March 02, 2002, 04:07:41 am
Post by: Alex on March 02, 2002, 05:43:28 am
1. There is a considerable segment of p2p music sharers who go out and buy CDs from artists they found online. In the last week, I bought 3 CDs on the basis of music I downloaded. Any pricing model must consider the 'sell-through' benefit that music-sharing provides;
2. As [former member] mentioned, the demand model online is totally different from traditional channels of distribution. As a result, that whole royalty model mentioned by JimH must go out the window. If 150 million people can access your new song as soon as it comes out, the equilibrium between supply and demand will meet at a lower point because distribution is considerably cheaper now. It's just economics 101. As many have already mentioned, the record industry simply has to consider the economic model and create an economically efficient online pricing structure.
3. I don't go for the argument that reform is not possible with all these existing artists and contracts. If the record industry makes it a priority (and most artists are constantly looking for greater exposure), this kind of change could permeate the business in pretty short order. I would think (hope) that such riders are being folded into all new recoding contracts, and that organizations like ASCAP (Are they still around) could facilitate the process.
Just my 2 cents. By the way, Media Jukebox is one of the most awesome software products I have ever used. And I love the open dialog you promote between users and the company.
Post by: Michael Horton on March 02, 2002, 06:47:54 am
http://eblvd.com/fspromo.asp
Post by: zevele1 on March 02, 2002, 07:07:06 am
Post by: zevele1 on March 02, 2002, 07:21:58 am
Post by: JimH on March 02, 2002, 07:51:32 am
Alex and others who believe the current situation is unfair:
I agree. But the way to change this is by asking that the law be changed (Congress) and not by swiping the music.
Somewhere a long time ago, I read something that stuck:
"The conditions for revolution take a long time to evolve, but the revolution itself often happens very quickly."
Post by: zevele1 on March 02, 2002, 08:41:31 am
Concerning your quote: not only on book.We saw it on tv:Berlin wall,Roumania and others
have a nice week-end
Post by: Swapper on March 02, 2002, 09:16:51 am
This is the version I'm running: 1.3.3
Post by: Swapper on March 02, 2002, 12:00:17 pm
Post by: Michael Horton on March 02, 2002, 12:50:59 pm
>>>>>>>>>>Do you use it?
No, I came across it purely by accident. I was looking for places to buy OOP CDs and the search engine poped up that site--go figure. I buy CDs. Used CDs, but that's still legal so far. But I think that it's a legit place, at least, I hope that it is, 'cause I wouldn't have intentionally posted one that wasn't. I like to see the artists get paid (I'm not quite as concerned about the business end in music making because they always seem to find a way to make money). Plus, I don't like the feeling of having to constantly be looking over my shoulder . . .
Post by: Charlemagne 8 on March 02, 2002, 01:08:53 pm
Like Swapper, I have bought more CD's BECAUSE of sites like Napster and Morpheus (that includes Music01 when we could download) than ever before. While it is possible to download "bit perfect" music from the internet IN THEORY, in practice, that's not the case. Even the 128 KB music that you get from Morpheus (that's the limit) is most of the time flawed in some way or another. Songs start late or end early. Squeals, pops, etc. But it's a great way to preview music and artists that you haven't heard before. You like it, you buy it. But no one FORCED you to buy.
Napster had a "Buy" button for any MP3 you had. They also tried to preview artists and recommend them. You downloaded their offering and if you wanted, you could go to their web site and buy the CD. No big publishing company, no big record store. No middle men with their hand out. All profits to the artists. There WAS a fee but it was minimal. They didn't make any money when you downloaded a song from another user and there were no advertisements. The only thing threatening about their business model was that they threatened to cut out the big record companies. THAT'S why they got sued.
Just my opinion.
CVIII
Post by: sekim on March 02, 2002, 01:14:46 pm
http://www.toadnode.com/
Post by: Michael Horton on March 02, 2002, 01:22:30 pm
eblvd is more like emusic, and toadnote is more like Morpheus
it seems to me, anyway
Post by: Charlemagne 8 on March 02, 2002, 01:26:00 pm
Post by: KingSparta on March 02, 2002, 01:38:21 pm
Bearshare seems to be a better program, I think it had some transfer problems early on, not sure how it is now
Post by: ZRocker on March 02, 2002, 02:00:02 pm
BearShare is infected with SpyWare...do not install it if unless you like being spied on. Even if you uninstall BearSh*t, it leaves the SpyWare behind!!
Update:
Also, more info on spyware here and here.
Post by: sekim on March 02, 2002, 02:15:00 pm
http://www.spywareinfo.com/
Post by: Charlemagne 8 on March 02, 2002, 02:43:48 pm
I don't like it.
CVIII
Post by: Harry The Hipster on March 02, 2002, 04:40:39 pm
That'll be tough. Right of first sale pretty well established.
Of course, that's what we said about fair use, too. Pretty clear that the RIAA's position on the Hollings bill is that their 'right' to protect copyright trumps any user right to 'space shift' legally-owned files.
Funny, that's not what the Supremes said in Sony. But after all, what do they know?
HTH
Post by: Charlemagne 8 on March 02, 2002, 05:03:01 pm
The problem is that they have never been shown their boundaries and think they don't have any. They may be right.
CVIII
Post by: IQ10 on March 02, 2002, 05:41:49 pm
Yep, but there is a loop hole in the first sale doctrine. It is called the so called license perversion: no first sale, therefore no first sale ownership rights!!
No product is sold. Only a license to use.
The ownership and title to the product is never transferred.
You may own the bag, the packaging; but you do not own the thingee inside the bag.
The fine print of the latest 'CDs', you may think you 'purchased', says you did not purchase the CD.
You only purchased a license to use the CD per the fine print license terms.
Not all that different from the JRiver license that you agree to with each beta download.
That license requires you to destroy previous versions (so much for ownership rights) and not to peek at the bits you have downloaded-that would be 'decompiling' or 'reverse engineering', both a violation of the JRiver license you agree to.
Soon the music moguls will forbid you from eyeballing both sides of the CD, too closely.
They may even license the left and right ear for separate use.
[former member]
Post by: Deathrider on March 02, 2002, 06:31:32 pm
Well I wont lie, I use it to sample new music/artists to see if I like them enough to buy a cd, I got tired a long time ago from buying cd's and to find that I only liked one song. this way I can find out if they are a one hit wonder or worth buying. there is a use for P2P but it has gotten blow out of proportion buy a few others, now if the RIAA can imbrace P2P as a sampling service it could help sales in MHO, otherwise I would not have learned about some other groups that I now look for in the stores, in addition The Art Of Noise is back on the shelves after a very long time but so far it is only old copies, maybe they will start recording some new stuff.
Robert Long
Post by: Harry The Hipster on March 02, 2002, 09:20:02 pm
JimH, most of us don't deny the thrust of what you're saying, but its rather BSTP, since in this instance the scope of the response is wholly disproportionate to the nature of the problem that purportedly provokes it. The most revealing recent development is Hilary Rosen's comment about their rights trumping our rights (above somewhere). Doesn't have to be that way - unless the driver is a desire to eliminate our rights entirely, even if in the end they don't necessarily conflict with theirs.
HTH
Post by: zevele1 on March 03, 2002, 05:45:35 am
To be scandalised by programs that stole indications from you when you use programs to stole music.......................
None of this programs are here" for your beautiful eyes" -as we say in french-.They are here to make money.Even Napster was.If not, no need to be on WallStreet as Napster was
RIAA gang has still to meet this kind of p2p software.I will say a "political one",not a mercantile one.More or less a kind of Napster not on the nasdaq
listening to Eternal Autumn -the storm -metal
Post by: hvy duty on March 03, 2002, 04:21:55 pm
Buy a used car five times and the tax is more than the car. This crap about you don't own the CD when you buy it. Bull, Why don't they tell you that, not all that fine print stuff that most people don't read(more then that they can't read it even with 20-20 vision). You can feel sorry for these poor record company's that are busting the artist's and putting a big hole in our pocketbook's and want to keep everything as it is. THERE TAKE, WE OWN EVERYTHING INCLUDING YOU.
Post by: zevele1 on March 06, 2002, 07:53:54 am
5 days non stop with the new Morpheus running.I still have to get my first song on my hd!!
Post by: cjdshaw on March 06, 2002, 11:02:50 am
Post by: RAVMAN on March 06, 2002, 02:02:03 pm