INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 19 for Windows => Topic started by: HiFiTubes on April 12, 2014, 03:32:15 am
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Now I notice when setting Output Format to PCM2DSD x 2, all DSD64 is being converted from DSD64>PCM>DSD128.
I was under the impression from previous builds, MC would just ignore DSD64 and output natively.
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DSD is passed through if you have DSD Bitstreaming enabled. Otherwise, it is processed, and must go through a PCM conversion step in order to add DSP and Volume control.
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In the past, I observed DSD64 untouched, which is intuitive. I could be wrong.
Given how zones work with different file types, I would expect folks who want to utilize PCM2DSD would desire that any native DSD64 be ignored.
Convert PCM only, thus PCM2DSD.
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That's called Bistreaming.
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I would expect folks who want to utilize PCM2DSD would desire that any native DSD64 be ignored.
Then you wouldn't be able to apply Volume control or DSP to those files, which I wouldn't expect to be the desired case (unless you enable bitstreaming explicitly, which is what that option does).
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I'm sorry Glynor, I don't understand.
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Tools → Options → Audio → Settings → Bitstreaming: DSD
This setting will output native DSD without a PCM conversion step.
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For me, there is a bit of confusion.
Are you saying, if my DAC only supports DSD over USB via DoP, I must have bit-streaming on for DSD?
I do have to box ticked to do DSD over DoP in the other menu.
I believe I do have everything set up properly, I just object to DSD64 behavior when choosing PCM2DSD.
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DSD is passed through if you have DSD Bitstreaming enabled. Otherwise, it is processed, and must go through a PCM conversion step in order to add DSP and Volume control.
Furthermore, I'm not asking for DSP and volume control. What I am expecting is any PCM to be converted to DSD on the fly, either via DSD raw bitstream, or Dop DSD.
You can see how our hand is forced when choosing 2xDSD, when using PCM2DSD, can't you?
It makes little sense to convert DSD64 to PCM....then back to DSD128....rather it should be ignored altogether, and the processing not attempted.
IMHO.
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It makes little sense to convert DSD64 to PCM....then back to DSD128....rather it should be ignored altogether, and the processing not attempted.
I really don't understand the trouble.
MC's audio engine can only operate on PCM data. If it enters the audio engine, it is converted to PCM. If you want to bypass the PCM conversion step, you need to bypass the audio engine for those formats. That is called bitstreaming, and is enabled as is explained above.
Read this that I just posted, and try to explain why those two options don't work for you:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87363.msg608273#msg608273
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Right, I'm asking because it used to ignore DSD64.
I'm not sure why users should be forced to compromise. I get how it works, I don't agree with how the output settings are applied across all file types.
DSD64 should be ignored because it is DSD.
MY DSD64 files are being converted to PCM!
Maybe given the change where this was put into the Output Settings has cause the issue, I don't know.
I'm asking MC to convert PCM TO DSD. currently it is applying a change to PCM for any single date DSD. not correct.
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If you don't enable DSD bitstreaming, it will always be decoded to PCM first, so that DSP and volume changes can be applied. That is simply a fact, independent of you actually using DSP or volume.
You can easily avoid that by enabling DSD bitstreaming as was suggested several times in this thread.
No-one is forced to compromise. You can encode PCM to DSD and output DSD untouched at the same time, you just need to tell MC to do so.
Bitstreaming disables MCs core audio processing functions, which is why its a separate option, instead of magically happening when you enable DSD output encoding - but it is an option, the PCM conversion is not forced onto you.
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Bitstreaming bypasses any internal processing and sends the native DSD audio straight to your DAC.
You can bitstream as native 1-bit 2.8MHz DSD, or a 16-bit 176.4kHz DoP stream.
DoP is a reformatting of the DSD stream, it is not a conversion, and is 100% DSD.
It simply fits the 1-bit 2.8MHz stream into a 16-bit "container". (2.8MHz ÷ 16 = 176.4kHz)
Neither of these bitstreams have a PCM conversion step, or allow you to perform any processing. (even simple things like adjusting the volume)
DSD Encoding is the process of converting PCM audio to DSD.
DSD Encoding will work on both PCM files and DSD files.
The reason you might want to use DSD Encoding with native DSD files, is that having Media Center perform an intermediate PCM conversion allows you to process the audio for things like volume control, volume leveling, equalization, downmixing, or other DSP processing, while still outputting DSD at the end.
DSD Bitstreaming takes priority over DSD Encoding.
If you have both enabled, PCM audio will be encoded to DSD, and DSD audio will simply be passed through to the DAC with no intermediate PCM stage or processing.
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Sorry but the reason I posted was because I do have those settings enabled. Always have. But I will double check.
Most likely something got changed on one of my zones. If not, I'll post again.
Sorry for any confusion.
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Is there a way to let DSD64 output as DSD128 on the fly? It seems the DSP setting on either DSD128 ASIO output or DSD128 Dop only works for PCM files. I know I can convert DSD64 to DSD128 by using Library Tools/Convert Format, but DSD128 is too large if I want to convert all my DSD64 into DSD128. Any inputs?
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Is there a way to let DSD64 output as DSD128 on the fly? It seems the DSP setting on either DSD128 ASIO output or DSD128 Dop only works for PCM files. I know I can convert DSD64 to DSD128 by using Library Tools/Convert Format, but DSD128 is too large if I want to convert all my DSD64 into DSD128. Any inputs?
If you disable DSD Bitstreaming and use DSD Encoding it will do that, though there will be an intermediate PCM stage - but I'm not sure it's possible to avoid that.
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I really don't understand the trouble.
MC's audio engine can only operate on PCM data. If it enters the audio engine, it is converted to PCM. If you want to bypass the PCM conversion step, you need to bypass the audio engine for those formats. That is called bitstreaming, and is enabled as is explained above.
Read this that I just posted, and try to explain why those two options don't work for you:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87363.msg608273#msg608273
Sorry, somehow the Bitstreaming DSD option had become disabled in my PCM2DSD zone. I should have looked there first.