INTERACT FORUM

More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 20 for Windows => Topic started by: R32NJ on January 09, 2015, 08:51:21 pm

Title: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on January 09, 2015, 08:51:21 pm
I recently started using server mode with JRemote as my primary control method. I used to use Theaterview with a handheld remote. I have server set to start with Windows now.

Occassionally I launch the main JRiver front end and when I exit my playback stops. Server is still running so that is not the issue. I can't seem to find a setting to control this behavior but perhaps it is buried in a menu that I missed.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: JimH on January 10, 2015, 02:18:06 am
If you want playback to continue, don't exit MC on the client side.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on January 10, 2015, 09:40:13 am
Is there no setting I can make somewhere for playback to continue since the server is still running?  I would rather leave my HTPC with just server running most of the time.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: tyler69 on January 10, 2015, 10:00:29 am
+1
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Dr Tone on January 11, 2015, 01:56:33 pm
+2

This has been an issue for as long as I can remember.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Matt on January 13, 2015, 11:00:32 am
Closing the program stops playback.  I can't see adding an option for that, because it seems pretty fundamental.  Just leave the program running if you want playback to continue.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on January 13, 2015, 11:20:14 am
I think there should be the option to continue playback when media server is running.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Matt on January 13, 2015, 11:25:21 am
I think there should be the option to continue playback when media server is running.

Well there is that option -- it's called leave MC running.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: mwillems on January 13, 2015, 11:38:20 am
I guess minimizing it isn't enough?  Maybe try the "minimize to tray" option if you really don't want desktop clutter.  Then you'll just have two tray widgets instead of one, but otherwise it will have more or less the same screen footprint as media server.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: leezer3 on January 13, 2015, 11:42:01 am
Whilst I don't use JRemote, isn't he saying that playback on the remote device (I.E. through the Ipad speakers) is stopping when the MC interface is closed?

That seems like a bug to me :)

-Leezer-
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: JimH on January 13, 2015, 11:53:00 am
If that's the case, he may need to run Media Server at system startup.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on January 13, 2015, 11:57:50 am
I started using Media Server recently.  I use JRemote about 75% of the time and use Theater View + display + remote control (my old method) the other 25%.  I have the option selected to start Media Server when Windows starts.  This way when my PC has booted up, I can immediately control it with JRemote.

Alternatively, I press a button on my remote control - my monitor powers up, JRiver launches in Theater View mode so I can utilize my display + remote.  I want to be able to close the JRiver front-end (Media Server does keep running when I exit the front-end) but have playback continue.  As it is now, I have to press PLAY on JRemote once the front-end closes.

This is what I want to fix.  Call this a bug or call it a feature request but it sounds like I am not the only person looking for JRiver to behave this way.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: cassfras21 on January 13, 2015, 11:59:40 am
Hello,

I agree with the author because of this:

-start mediaserver only
-start playback from jremote
-show mediacenter from the systray icon
-close mediacenter

Mediaserver is still running but playback stops.

Imo it is illogic behavior.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: leezer3 on January 13, 2015, 12:06:09 pm
If that's the case, he may need to run Media Server at system startup.

See the post below yours Jim-
This seems to be happening with Media Server running :)

I'll try and reproduce with Gizmo later; Sadly I've not got any IOS devices.

-Leezer-
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on January 13, 2015, 12:18:47 pm
If any more info and/or log files of some sort are needed please let me know.  I would be happy to provide.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Dr Tone on January 13, 2015, 06:00:11 pm
Well there is that option -- it's called leave MC running.

I would if it played well with other full screen apps.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: gvanbrunt on January 13, 2015, 08:17:50 pm
I don't think some in this thread understand what going on behind the scenes. I'm going to generalize this a lot, but you'll get the idea. The server is serving "streams" to client. Not processing audio. That is why it is a "server". If it processed audio as well, then it IS a client and would have all same baggage as leaving the client running. Not sure what you think the advantage to not having the client portion visible would bring you...
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on January 13, 2015, 09:01:35 pm
If server is running I can still play audio files without launching the client so what is processing the audio?   I dont want/need the front-end functionality most of the time and server does what I need so why keep the front-end running?
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: cassfras21 on January 14, 2015, 01:47:26 am
I don't think some in this thread understand what going on behind the scenes. I'm going to generalize this a lot, but you'll get the idea. The server is serving "streams" to client. Not processing audio.

And some do.

I am running MC with USB DAC. So audio rendering is local.

-start mediaserver only
-start playback from JRemote
-show mediacenter from the systray icon
-close mediacenter

Playback stops...

Unexpected behavior.

I won't be surprised if I couldn't start playback with only mediaserver running, but it's not what happens.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: AndrewFG on January 14, 2015, 02:19:26 am
Hmm.  It has been suggested in the past that the MC UPnP DMS (and MC UPnP DMR) should run as Windows Service Application(s); and the MC Front End (and MC UPnP CP) should run as a regular Windows UI application. That is how Microsoft does it in WMP for example. However that would be quite a big change in architecture..
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: JimH on January 14, 2015, 05:57:51 am
And some do.

I am running MC with USB DAC. So audio rendering is local.

-start mediaserver only
-start playback from JRemote
-show mediacenter from the systray icon
-close mediacenter

Playback stops...

Unexpected behavior.

I won't be surprised if I couldn't start playback with only mediaserver running, but it's not what happens.
What you describe seems to be a problem with JRemote.

Media Server will allow playback.  You could read about it on the wiki.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: tyler69 on January 14, 2015, 06:40:27 am
I do not think it's a problem with JRemote, but with how JRiver works. As Lespaul states on his homepage (http://www.JRemote.net/sample-page/) just running the server might have benefits when using audio only. So that's what I do when listening to music (and that's why I have the server in my startup items). But every now and then (while listening to Music through MC (server)) I do open up MC to check something or tag something, etc.. When finished, I want to close MC and keep the server running (and keep listening to my music). However when I close MC, it closes, the server stays in the tray (so it's still running), but the music stops. I think that's not so convinient since one has to open up JRemote and start playback again (I am not talking about playback on an iPhone etc.).
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: AndrewFG on January 14, 2015, 06:48:42 am
If you close MC with the [X] button then you close both the user interface and the server (everything); whereas if you minimize MC with the [_] button the application will either minimize to the task bar or to the system icon tray depending on MC Options | General | Minimize to System Tray.

PS if you are really closing MC with the [X] button, and yet MC "remains" still in the system icon tray then you probably had two instances of MC running (one of which you closed, and the other which remains in the system icon tray). That could happen if you have MC set to Start on Windows Start and you have then also manually started MC again from the Windows start menu..
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: cassfras21 on January 14, 2015, 06:49:17 am
Hello JimH,

Sorry if I speak poorly but you missed my point.

We both agree Media Server allows playback with jremote/Gizmo (no matter the remote control).
But if you open MC window (by clicking on "show Media Center") and then close it, playback will stop although mediaserver is still running.
It is the point!

I hope this is more understandable.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: cassfras21 on January 14, 2015, 06:51:15 am
If you close MC with the [X] button then you close both the user interface and the server (everything)

In my case, mediaserver is still running. It only closes the MC window.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: AndrewFG on January 14, 2015, 06:53:36 am
In my case, mediaserver is still running. It only closes the MC window.

I added a foot note in red colour to my earlier post above...
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: cassfras21 on January 14, 2015, 07:16:01 am
Interesting thoughts

Yes I run MC at Windows startup (from MC settings I enabled mediaserver and mediacenter with Theater view display).
By default, MC allows only one instance.
Could this happen even if I didn't allow MC multi instance?
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: AndrewFG on January 14, 2015, 08:08:35 am
By default, MC allows only one instance.
Could this happen even if I didn't allow MC multi instance?

I think the "only one instance" switch would only prevent two instances of the same version of MC from running at the same time; but I guess it would not prevent (for example) MC v19 being auto- started with Windows and MC v20 being separately started by the user from the Windows start menu (for example..)
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on January 14, 2015, 08:16:36 am
I can confirm that I have the "only one instance" switch turned on and Media Server 20 is running and when I launch the front-end it is version 20.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Hendrik on January 14, 2015, 08:22:51 am
If you close MC with the [X] button then you close both the user interface and the server (everything); whereas if you minimize MC with the [_] button the application will either minimize to the task bar or to the system icon tray depending on MC Options | General | Minimize to System Tray.

PS if you are really closing MC with the [X] button, and yet MC "remains" still in the system icon tray then you probably had two instances of MC running (one of which you closed, and the other which remains in the system icon tray). That could happen if you have MC set to Start on Windows Start and you have then also manually started MC again from the Windows start menu..

This is not true, if the Media Server is running its not another instance of MC, its the same instance, and using X will only close the UI, and the process stays active, running Media Server in the background.

Also, if Media Server is running and you launch MC (the same version of MC anyway) through any other means, it'll not launch a second copy but simply activate the UI of the existing instance.

Note that this only applies if you have MC setup to start MC+Media Server or only Media Server at Windows startup.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: tyler69 on January 14, 2015, 08:50:00 am
Hendrik,
so as far as I understand, playback shouldn't stop when the UI is being closed, right (when server is running at startup)? At least that's my layman understanding..
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: tyler69 on February 12, 2015, 09:58:53 am
Bump
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Matt on February 12, 2015, 10:00:42 am
Hendrik,
so as far as I understand, playback shouldn't stop when the UI is being closed, right (when server is running at startup)? At least that's my layman understanding..

Closing the UI stops playback.  Since you want the UI gone, it makes sense that you want the playback gone.  Minimize instead of close if you want to keep it running.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on February 12, 2015, 10:21:43 am
I still feel that with server running playback should continue.  Opening the UI may be for just maintenance reasons and when existing the UI playback should continue (IMHO).
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Matt on February 12, 2015, 10:22:58 am
I still feel that with server running playback should continue.  Opening the UI may be for just maintenance reasons and when existing the UI playback should continue (IMHO).

Then minimize instead of close.  Pretty simple solution I think.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on February 12, 2015, 10:24:33 am
Why keep the UI running if it is not needed?
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: BartMan01 on February 12, 2015, 10:27:17 am
Hello JimH,

Sorry if I speak poorly but you missed my point.

We both agree Media Server allows playback with JRemote/Gizmo (no matter the remote control).
But if you open MC window (by clicking on "show Media Center") and then close it, playback will stop although mediaserver is still running.
It is the point!

I hope this is more understandable.


I can't duplicate this.

I have MC set to run server on start up.  When the system starts up, MC Server is running and in the system tray.

Here is what I tried:
System is running, MC Server is running in system tray.
Start playback from server in JRemote.
Open MC on the machine where server is running using the start menu icon.  Close MC (click red X in upper corner).  JRemote continues to play without interruption.
Open MC on the machine using the system tray icon for 'show media center'.  Close MC (click red X in upper corner).  JRemote continues to play without interruption.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Dr Tone on February 12, 2015, 10:34:34 am
I can't duplicate this.

I have MC set to run server on start up.  When the system starts up, MC Server is running and in the system tray.

Here is what I tried:
System is running, MC Server is running in system tray.
Start playback from server in JRemote.
Open MC on the machine where server is running using the start menu icon.  Close MC (click red X in upper corner).  JRemote continues to play without interruption.
Open MC on the machine using the system tray icon for 'show media center'.  Close MC (click red X in upper corner).  JRemote continues to play without interruption.


Not playback to JRemote.  Playback to a local computer sound devices.  ASIO, Directsound, WASAPI whatever.

Playback is started to sound device via JRemote.  Media Center in Server mode.
Media Center is brought up from the Server task bar shortcut.
Media Center is closed, but server is still running.  Music stops.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on February 12, 2015, 10:58:10 am
+1 for Dr Tone's response.  My same situation.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: BartMan01 on February 12, 2015, 11:54:40 am
Not playback to JRemote.  Playback to a local computer sound devices.  ASIO, Directsound, WASAPI whatever.

Playback is started to sound device via JRemote.  Media Center in Server mode.
Media Center is brought up from the Server task bar shortcut.
Media Center is closed, but server is still running.  Music stops.

The fact that stuff will play locally when JRiver is in server mode is a quirk of the way server was implemented, not an intended feature as far as I can tell.  For example, I can accidentally start a video in MC playing via IR remote when only server is running but there is no UI running so the video isn't visible (I can just hear it).  If you want LOCAL playback of anything with MC, you need to leave the MC UI up and running (minimized if you don't want to see it) or strange things will happen.

Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Dr Tone on February 12, 2015, 12:11:58 pm
The fact that stuff will play locally when JRiver is in server mode is a quirk of the way server was implemented, not an intended feature as far as I can tell.  For example, I can accidentally start a video in MC playing via IR remote when only server is running but there is no UI running so the video isn't visible (I can just hear it).  If you want LOCAL playback of anything with MC, you need to leave the MC UI up and running (minimized if you don't want to see it) or strange things will happen.



Yes, it does other weird things with scanning and getting out of sync with JRemote.  I've since quit using the server functionality for music playback and now start the full blow MC minimized on login through a start menu shortcut.  I wish media center had a configurable option to start minimized.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: R32NJ on February 12, 2015, 02:08:03 pm
So, it is possible to use JREMOTE to control JRiver without having server mode running?  I guess I thought server mode was required for JREMOTE to operate (that's why I started using server mode anyway).
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: BartMan01 on February 12, 2015, 02:11:19 pm
So, it is possible to use JREMOTE to control JRiver without having server mode running?  I guess I thought server mode was required for JREMOTE to operate (that's why I started using server mode anyway).

As far as I know, JRemote needs server mode running to work (the server opens up MC to the network).  The point is that if you want anything playing back locally on any machine you really need to have the full MC UI running on that machine.

If you want it to start minimized, you will soon be able to do that via the command line.  From another post:

Next build:
Changed: The launcher (MC20.exe) takes a /MinMax command to toggle the minimized / maximized state of the program.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: tyler69 on February 12, 2015, 03:00:00 pm
Closing the UI stops playback.  Since you want the UI gone, it makes sense that you want the playback gone.  Minimize instead of close if you want to keep it running.

I often open up the UI clicking the server tray icon when I need to check/edit/tag something (while listening to music). When finished, I close the UI so only the server stays active. While I would expect the music to continue, it doesn't. In my oppinion, minimizing the UI isn't a solution that takes the use case of just running the server for audio into account.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: BartMan01 on February 12, 2015, 03:43:40 pm
I often open up the UI clicking the server tray icon when I need to check/edit/tag something (while listening to music). When finished, I close the UI so only the server stays active. While I would expect the music to continue, it doesn't. In my oppinion, minimizing the UI isn't a solution that takes the use case of just running the server for audio into account.

You are missing the point that (as far as I can tell) running the server alone for LOCAL playback of content was never an intended use case.  Running the server is for remote playback of content or for connecting via the network to the running UI.

Someone from JRiver can tell me if I am wrong here, but from the posts above this seems to be the case.

From what I can tell, the fact that you can cause local playback with just the server running is more of a bug (or unintended side effect) than an intended feature.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Dr Tone on February 12, 2015, 03:53:38 pm
So, it is possible to use JRemote to control JRiver without having server mode running?  I guess I thought server mode was required for JRemote to operate (that's why I started using server mode anyway).

JRiver doesn't need to be running in server mode it just needs media services enabled as a service.  The full aplication does everything the non gui server mode does.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: 6233638 on February 12, 2015, 05:02:24 pm
I would like to see this change as well - it's actually one of the reasons I stopped running Media Server a while back, because I would often close MC thinking that it wouldn't matter since it was still running in the tray.
 
 
The solution here seems to be following what other applications do: when running in server mode, the "close" option minimizes to the system tray rather than actually closing the application.
 
While there is an already existing "minimize to system tray" option, there are two issues:

Now as far as I can tell, "Media Server" is just an instance of Media Center which already does this, with the difference being that hitting the close button also issues a stop command rather than just hiding the UI/minimizing to the tray.
 
It does not seem to be opening/closing any additional processes when you use the "show Media Center" option, or if you close MC while Media Server is running. And when you open Media Center via Media Server it is instantaneous.
 
 
While you may not want to change the default behavior (though I think it would actually make sense to) an option to prevent playback from stopping if you close MC while Media Server is running would be nice.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: glynor on February 12, 2015, 05:02:29 pm
The core assumption seems to be that running in Media Server Only mode is substantially more "lightweight" than running the "full UI" minimized.

This is not true.  When you minimize MC, it unloads almost all of the UI-specific memory, and the memory allocation is cut.  In fact, I just did a test, and here were the results:

Private Bytes:
MC 20 Full UI Visible: ~80MB
MC 20 Minimized to Task Bar: ~40MB
MC 20 Library Server Mode: ~43MB

I didn't do much testing here, but in just that one test, the Library Server mode actually used a tiny bit more memory than when it was minimized (that could have been because it was doing something at that particular moment, the HTPC is in use right now upstairs).

In any case, the different is tiny, and irrelevant on a remotely modern PC.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: tyler69 on February 12, 2015, 05:28:19 pm
You are missing the point that (as far as I can tell) running the server alone for LOCAL playback of content was never an intended use case.  Running the server is for remote playback of content or for connecting via the network to the running UI.

Someone from JRiver can tell me if I am wrong here, but from the posts above this seems to be the case.

From what I can tell, the fact that you can cause local playback with just the server running is more of a bug (or unintended side effect) than an intended feature.

OK, thanks. I read about using the server only on the JRemote Homepage, which seemed to me being a use case, hence my post.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: 6233638 on February 12, 2015, 06:03:18 pm
The core assumption seems to be that running in Media Server Only mode is substantially more "lightweight" than running the "full UI" minimized.
It's more about convenience for me.
I like that Media Server starts automatically when I log in and is always there in the tray, so that MC is instantly available when it is running in server mode.
I don't like that, out of habit, I always end up hitting the close button to "minimize" to the tray when Server is running, which invariably stops playback.

What's worse is if playback was started via a remote while Media Server was already running in the tray, you open MC for some reason and then close it, which stops playback even though Media Server is still sitting in the tray.
As I said above, it's so instinctive to do that, I ended up having to stop running Media Server altogether because I just kept interrupting music playback by closing MC while MS was running.
 
I agree that this is not (or should not be) about "saving resources".
Media Center is currently using a WHOLE 3MB while minimized right now: (http://abload.de/img/memory-usagelouao.png)
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: glynor on February 12, 2015, 06:42:55 pm
It's more about convenience for me.

I got that from you.  My post was directed at others.

I can see how that would happen and would be annoying.  It happens that it doesn't occur in any of my use cases.  I don't know if it is the biggest deal in the world, but I see it being a minor irritant.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: glynor on February 12, 2015, 08:09:14 pm
I should also note, however, that I see where Matt (et all) is coming from on this too.  Here's the issue, when you start playback from the full, local UI, the expected behavior when you close the window would be to stop playback.

Not doing that would drive most users, myself included, batty.  Imagine having an inappropriate song playing at an inappropriate moment and you're not even sure of the source (MC? Web Browser tab? Where?) and you start closing windows, and it keeps playing with all the windows closed  No, can't have that.

Even if you play something remotely, there's lots of instances I can see where you wouldn't want this behavior (I wouldn't want it on my HTPC, for example, though it doesn't run Library Server full-time).

The only time when it makes sense is when you:
* Start playback from JRemote (or some other remote control system) while MC is already "closed" to Library Server mode.
* At some point during playback, you open MC's UI to do something unrelated to the current playback (tag some files, or whatever).
* When you're done, you close MC.

In that one set of behaviors, I can see it.  Since you started it that way, it "makes sense".  In almost all other cases, it doesn't.

So, that's the problem, they'd have to track a complicated set of play "state" behaviors, and decide when to do it and when not to.  I'm betting that they currently don't really even know if the playback was started locally or remotely.  Maybe they new it when it happened, but once playback is going, it almost certainly doesn't "matter" anymore how the commands came in.

And what about when commands are mixed?  Some things you did from the full UI and some from JRemote?  That's a common case in my instance.  And I don't think I'd expect playback to continue when MC was closed, just because I played a song or two while wandering off for a bit.

I don't know... I can see it, but that seems like a lot of special casing a reasonably "edgy" case.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: 6233638 on February 13, 2015, 01:43:38 am
The only time when it makes sense is when you:[...]
I'm not sure that I agree. If Media Center is running, whether that is as MC or Media Server in the tray, it should be capable of playing audio in my opinion.

Maybe don't make it the default behavior then (though it does make sense if you have manually enabled MS, in my opinion) but an option to treat “close” as “minimize to tray” (minimizing to the MS icon) without interrupting playback while MS is running solves this, as far as I am concerned.
 
No need to track the state of what started playback—if MC is still running, even as MS in the tray, it should keep playing music.

If I want to quit, that option is available from the MS tray icon. After all, that is the whole reason to enable MS as far as I am concerned—to keep MC running all the time, preventing playback from being interrupted.

If I want playback to stop when I hit “close”, I wouldn't enable MS.

Most other programs that I have used, which have the option to run as a “server” in the tray, treat their “close” button as “minimize to tray” rather than closing and interrupting whatever they were currently doing.

Perhaps treat quit via the file menu differently, but ALT+F4 or hitting the close button in the upper-right shouldn't stop playback in my opinion. It should just hide the UI.

And I can see where someone may only want this behavior for audio playback and not video, but I think that only complicates matters.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: glynor on February 13, 2015, 06:51:59 am
If I want playback to stop when I hit “close”, I wouldn't enable MS.

I close the UI to stop playback on my server machine all the time.  Probably every day.  And it has to run the Library Server because that is its job.

With the actual minimize to tray icon enabled, then I wouldn't argue (I don't use that anyway) if close didn't close and minimized to tray instead.  Though I do find applications that do that irritating (because it is harder to actually exit them), but I'd get that.

The Library Server has a job, and it isn't playback.  That it happens to work is a nice bonus, but...  It isn't "for" that.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: mwillems on February 13, 2015, 08:47:12 am
I close the UI to stop playback on my server machine all the time.  Probably every day.  And it has to run the Library Server because that is its job.

With the actual minimize to tray icon enabled, then I wouldn't argue (I don't use that anyway) if close didn't close and minimized to tray instead.  Though I do find applications that do that irritating (because it is harder to actually exit them), but I'd get that.

The Library Server has a job, and it isn't playback.  That it happens to work is a nice bonus, but...  It isn't "for" that.

I'm with Glynor on this;  I use the server widget as a server.  When I close a a full MC instance on my server, with the server in the tray, I want local playback to stop.  I literally can't think of another media player that doesn't stop playing when you close the main window (even if it has a service running as well).  

I don't think I "get" why leaving media server off, and using minimize to tray isn't the answer?  I think (using MCC commands) you can even launch MC minimized on startup, no? What functionality is missing?  

If it's just a matter of relearning to hit minimize instead of close, then I definitely don't get it.  It's not like a new user would intuitively expect that playback would continue when the window is closed (as almost all apps stop what they're doing when you close them).
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: 6233638 on February 13, 2015, 09:38:22 am
With the actual minimize to tray icon enabled, then I wouldn't argue (I don't use that anyway) if close didn't close and minimized to tray instead.  Though I do find applications that do that irritating (because it is harder to actually exit them), but I'd get that.
Well that is exactly the point - it is harder to close them accidentally, and that's what Media Server enables.
 
But while Media Server prevents you from stopping the MC process accidentally, it does not prevent you from stopping music playback.

So while it may not interrupt playback to DLNA clients (I guess that's how you are using it?) it does interrupt playback to local devices.
 
And things like my AirPlay clients are seen as "local devices" because I have to run them through a virtual audio device, so it effectively kills all audio around the house when this happens - which is what I thought the Media Server option was supposed to prevent in the first place.


"Minimize to tray" doesn't help, because it does not prevent you from closing the MC process at all.
It simply adds another icon right next to the Media Server one. (even though they're the same process)

I don't think I "get" why leaving media server off, and using minimize to tray isn't the answer?  I think (using MCC commands) you can even launch MC minimized on startup, no? What functionality is missing?
Because that won't run automatically when you log in, and does not prevent you from closing the MC process.


I think you are both seeing Media Server and Media Center as separate processes, when they are not.
MS is just a mode of operation for MC that minimizes it to the tray when you hit close.

The problem (for some of us) is that it also issues a stop command when doing so.
An option to disable this stop command and allow local playback to continue solves all of this.
 
I would rather that it was as difficult as possible to accidentally stop all audio in my house, than have Media Server kill all "local" audio when I close the MC window.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: marko on February 13, 2015, 10:10:19 am
I'm with glynor here, in post #51, concluding "edgy case".

I've read the whole thread, and that post, for me, encapsulates the problem, and explains the bigger picture that might affect everyone else. Some comments don't feel quite right though...

Quote
The Library Server has a job, and it isn't playback.  That it happens to work is a nice bonus, but...  It isn't "for" that.
Surely this isn't so? We have the option in Gizmo to "Play there". That means that the fact we can initiate local playback remotely is a concious feature, not a quirky bonus. Isn't that precisely what all the "Tremote" buzz was about when it was first introduced? "Use a laptop as an MC remote". What I do feel is a nice bonus, is that with only the server running, I can hit a keyboard combo to begin Playdoctor playback, and the server catches that and kicks off the playlist.

Getting back to the thread topic...
On my server machine, I have the server start with Windows. This allows Gizmo and the HTPC to connect, which is excellent and as it should be. Once I open MC fully for whatever reason, it never closes. When I'm done, it gets minimised, to taskbar, not tray, and I forget about it. If I need it again, I click the taskbar icon and there's MC on the screen, ready for me.

I guess I'm having difficulty understanding why that is a problem? Minimise, not close. In my head, that shouldn't take long to train yourself to instinctively take that action with MC, and then the problem goes away?

-marko
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: mwillems on February 13, 2015, 10:12:06 am
Because that won't run automatically when you log in, and does not prevent you from closing the MC process.

My point was you can easily set it up to run automatically at login.  MC's UI doesn't offer an "auto-launch minimized" option, but it should be trivial to script one using MCC commands.

Quote
I think you are both seeing Media Server and Media Center as separate processes, when they are not.
MS is just a mode of operation for MC that minimizes it to the tray when you hit close.

They may both inhabit the same PID, but they function separately; you can run one without the other in both directions.  The MS widget doesn't support all operations that the full UI window does (try launching a video through MS when no UI window is open and see what happens).  And if you run the MS-widget on multiple machines that are in a library client/server relationship it will lead to weirdness.  They're not interchangeable.

Surely this isn't so? We have the option in Gizmo to "Play there". That means that the fact we can initiate local playback remotely is a concious feature, not a quirky bonus. Isn't that precisely what all the "Tremote" buzz was about when it was first introduced? "Use a laptop as an MC remote".

None of that requires the media server widget to be running.  You can just enable media network and leave a UI window up and all network functionality (gizmo, library server, et al.) will still work.  The widget is a convenience, but not necessary for remote control, tremote, etc.  
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: Dr Tone on February 13, 2015, 10:27:24 am
My point was you can easily set it up to run automatically at login.  MC's UI doesn't offer an "auto-launch minimized" option, but it should be trivial to script one using MCC commands.
 

An easy solution in the mean time:

Create a shortcut to MC in the startup folder of the start menu, change shortcut to start minimized.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: 6233638 on February 13, 2015, 11:04:04 am
I feel like people are trying to argue that one way of using the program is better than the other, while some of us would just like the option to use it differently, because that's what suits our setup.
 
 
Running MC minimized does not prevent people from closing the application, killing all local/networked/remote media playback.
Media Server prevents this, keeping networked/remote media playback running, but it still kills local playback.

One of the issues here is that "local" devices can actually be playing in other rooms around the house (e.g. a multichannel AVR treated as several stereo zones) not just in the same room as the PC, for those of us that are not using DLNA.

And I do not want MC to minimize to the tray either - minimized programs should remain in the taskbar, in my opinion. (I hate when a program disappears as you minimize it)
 
 
Media Server's behavior where it minimizes normally, and then hides in the tray when "closed" is exactly what I want - only I don't want it to also stop local playback when you do this.
 
And you can start local playback while Media Server is running if you're using a remote.
You just can't start local playback inside MC and then close the UI.
So it's not that Media Server cannot handle local playback.

try launching a video through MS when no UI window is open and see what happens
It seems to play just fine. I get audio and no picture - which is exactly what I want sometimes if I'm listening to a presentation which was posted on YouTube that I only need to hear the audio for.
 
If anything, doing this just further illustrates the fact that MC's full UI is running in the background when running as "Media Server" because the GPU load from madVR is identical to what I see if the MC window is visible. (and GPU load would change if it were rendering to a different window size in madVR)
 
If anything, I'd want MC to stop rendering the video at that point, and only play the audio if it were at all possible.
 
But I suppose you might run into issues where you then want to bring up the video for a certain part, and I'm not sure how well it would handle that. I usually end up playing to a zone configured to use RO Standard instead, to keep the GPU load down.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: 6233638 on June 09, 2015, 12:36:57 pm
Bumping this because it was an issue over the weekend again.
 
It would be really nice to have playback continue when Media Server is active and you close the window, instead of shutting down all audio and video playback across the house.
 
It doesn't close the Media Center process, it just seems to hide the UI and issue a stop command. I'd like an option for it to not stop playback.
Maybe even add a "stop all playback" command to the Media Server tray menu (which would be nice to have anyway) if you think that's going to be a problem.
Title: Re: Playback stop when exiting even with server running
Post by: tyler69 on August 01, 2016, 03:38:52 pm
Bumping this because it was an issue over the weekend again.
 
It would be really nice to have playback continue when Media Server is active and you close the window, instead of shutting down all audio and video playback across the house.
 
It doesn't close the Media Center process, it just seems to hide the UI and issue a stop command. I'd like an option for it to not stop playback.
Maybe even add a "stop all playback" command to the Media Server tray menu (which would be nice to have anyway) if you think that's going to be a problem.

Hi there.  Are there any plans to add such functionality?