INTERACT FORUM
Devices => PC's and Other Hardware => Topic started by: jmone on January 30, 2015, 05:18:29 pm
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Intel recently announced their Compute Stick (http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html) that is due to ship in the first half 2015 and is basically:
- Size of a large USB Stick
- HDMI for Audio and Sound (just plug it into your TV or Screen)
- 2GB of RAM & 32GB GM of storage + a MicroSD Slot so you can "add another drive"
- Wifi (N @ 2.4GHZ) and Blutooth 4.0
- 1 Full Sized USB 2 port (and one mini usb port for feeding it power)
(http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/images/product/RWD/compute-stick-final-rwd.png/_jcr_content/renditions/intel.web.480.270.png)
- Expected to cost around US$89 with Linux or $US109 with Windows - it is cheap!
Similar to my review of the Intel NUC DN2828 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87617.msg600098#msg600098), I'm always looking for great low cost Media Players concepts, and this looks interesting, but how does it go with MC as a Low Cost Media Player?
While the Intel Compute stick is not out yet, the clones are and I will be testing the MeeGoPad I got from China (about 1 week) as a Media Server Client pulling content from a MC Library Server and running it on Windows 10 Preview.
Install: See attached pics for what came in the Box (note: the Mouse is only for a size comparison)
- HW (0Min) : You just plug it in but some words of caution with this clone. The PS is the usual garbage that comes with a country adapter that just keeps popping off. I have a heap of 2amp 5volt usb PS already so I'm using one of those to power the device. You are also going to need a USB hub to make setting this stick up easy. You REALLY want to get a hub or you will go nuts (I did).
- Installing OS - Win 10 Preview (30Mins) : This things shipped with a dodgy Win8.1 Bing addition that can not be activated and is already setup for China. There was absolutely no issues in installing Win 10 32-Bit from a Optical Disk Drive as a clean install. You could also install from a USB drive but you can not use a MicroSD card as this slot is not seen as bootable by the BIOS (note: BIOS is UEFI only). Also, I could not install Win 10 64-Bit no matter what I did. Finding all this out has taken hours of frustration. You really want to do a Clean Install as who knows what is on the pre-installed version it ships with.
- Updating Drivers / BIOS (15 Minutes) : This was a delight for a change! The first thing I did was export the drivers from the install that came with the Stick onto a USB drive prior to installing Win 10. So after the Win 10 install, I went to device manager and for each unknown device did an Update Driver and pointed it at the USB drive. I then ran the Intel HDMI driver checker and got a recent GFX build. Here is a link (http://jmone.org/owncloud/index.php/s/GOpmecI1m4XfeIA/download) to the driver set I made (80MB).
- Initial MC Install (10Mins) : Straight Forward as usual.
Tweaks: None (yet)
Results: My first impression was that the Stick is awkward and sluggish at times when it is doing "stuff" behind the scenes but the boot is very quick, and MC's TheaterView seems snappy enough. Given my experience with the N2820 NUC I was expecting it to all work on the media front but not so:
- Audio: No problems with decoding Audio over HDMI for all formats though the implementation only support 16 Bit with Multi Channel Audio (up to 192k). No 24-Bit! It does support 24-Bit (up to 192K) for 2ch.
- Video: Fine with RO Std on AVC, MPEG2, VC-1 material up to and including 1080/50p / 50i / 60i. All the MC Video goodies such as Auto Frame Rate Switching and Video Clock worked without issue. It does not have the horse power for 2K, 4K, HEVC material. It does not have the horse power to use ROHQ in any form. There is a playback issue as the WiFi adapter maxs out at 40Mbps, so I can not play my high bitrate 1080/50 or 60i BD material without stuttering and audio sync issues. This is a deal breaker for me.
- WiFi: According to a review by anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8760/hp-stream-7-review/4) of other devices using the Realtek RTL8723BS chipset, it is a "single spatial stream 802.11n part, with no 5GHz support and only 20MHz channel width. That means that we're dealing with a theoretical maximum speed of 72Mbps. In real world use, it's quite a bit less, as you can see.... 40Mbps". My own testing would confirm this.
- Power and Noise: Silent / No Fan. It does get hot and the instructions say don't leave it on for extended periods (they quoted months).
- Other: No IR, so you are going to have to control this over BT or WiFi.
Conclusion: The Stick is a viable option instead of a Media Player / Streamer / DLNA box if you can live with its limitations. It is a fully fledged PC that lets you run MC as you would on a "real" PC but is cheap, small and silent. The simple connectivity to an AVR/Screen/TV over HDMI is easy and just works.... but did I mention that you really want to buy a USB hub as at times (like setup) you will need more than one USB port.
Is it going to replace my current main HTPC....? No way. My existing HTPC is much more powerful for ROHQ and includes additional conveniences built in such as BD Drive, IR for the RC, Analog out for separate audio zones. The other main limitations are:
- The - Realtek RTL8723BS Wifi speed limit will prevent you from playing high bit rate material even though the Stick can decode it just fine
- No 24-Bit for Multi Channel Audio
- The occasional sluggishness when the OS is doing background "stuff" is the Disk IO - it hits 100%. To be fair I've only really seen this during the setup phase when Windows was installing and configuring stuff
- No Boot on Power Restore in the BIOS. This is an odd one as you may supply power to your stick from a TV's USB port and if it powers off you have to find and press the power button on the Stick (which may be behind the TV). In general the BIOS is pretty limited. Fixed with different BIOS flash
I was hoping to use this Stick for as a ultra portable HTPC device so you could setup media playback in flexible locations (eg put it into the back of a PJ for a quick outside setup). The main issue for me will be the inability to play some of my high bit rate videos (eg TV and Music Videos that are 1920x1080/50 or 60i).
My Rating: 4/10 An interesting concept and I hope the "real" Intel Compute stick does better but I think it will take a V2 to overcome some of these problems as they seem to be HW limitations of the low power Bay Trail Atom Z3735F processor and the choice of WiFi module (hopping that Intel will use a different WiFi Module!)
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Here is the initial Performance Results as is:
=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 15.204 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 8.027 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 8.549 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 4.019 seconds
Score: 531
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 1.724 seconds
Flood filling... 1.363 seconds
Direct copying... 2.389 seconds
Small renders... 8.590 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 4.967 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 3.553 seconds
Score: 974
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 1.795 seconds
Populate database... 8.618 seconds
Save database... 3.047 seconds
Reload database... 0.251 seconds
Search database... 5.540 seconds
Sort database... 4.976 seconds
Group database... 3.361 seconds
Score: 779
JRMark (version 20.0.62): 761
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- Expected to cost around US$89 with Linux or $US109 with Windows - it is cheap!
I thought I saw $149 for the price of the Windows version.
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Better drivers from intel will probably improve the performance on interlaced content and some of the desktop sluggishness too. How much, who knows, but I had no idea how crucial well implemented hardware acceleration is to a modern desktop experience until my recent experiments with assorted ARM single board computers (that are about the same form factor as this compute stick, but obviously aren't x86).
Many of these ARM boards have raw specs (in terms of CPU processing power and theoretical GPU power) that compete with or dwarf smartphones or older computers, but the smartphones/computers have vastly better desktop experiences and video playback because they have properly functioning hardware acceleration.
A good example: i have an ODROID U3 (http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=g138745696275), which has a quad core processor that is the exact same CPU and GPU that went into a Samsung S3. But some folks who own both a Samsung S3 and one of these ODROID boards have done benchmarks on them both, both running android, and the Samsung S3 benchmarks significantly better and has better video performance, etc with the exact same hardware. And it's because the folks at ODROID don't have the resources to do the kind of ruthless optimization and kernel tweaking that Samsung did with their version of android for that phone, and Samsung isn't about to tell them how they did it ;D
The good news for you (and the compute stick) is that windows drivers (unlike most android drivers) aren't baked into the operating system, so when intel issues improved drivers you'll be able to install them and reap the benefits of all that R&D, even though you didn't purchase from them.
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Is it the same processor?
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Is it the same processor?
The ODROID U3? No it doesn't have the same processor as the compute stick, it's ARM not x86. I was just offering it as an example of how the same processor and GPU could produce really different results with different drivers/hardware acceleration setups (because the U3 uses the same processor as the Samsung S3 did, and folks had really different results between the two even with the same processor).
Jmone's meego has the same processor that the compute stick is expected to have, I think (both are celeron Z3735F), so his experience should improve as intel improves their driver support.
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No. Sorry. I meant to ask jmone if the clone has the same processor as the Compute Stick. Thanks for the answer though.
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Yes, the specs are identical between the Clone and the Intel Stick (from what has been published anyway)... If you are in contact with Intel ;) it may be worth checking as their implementation may overcome some of these issues but I can not see how the Multi Channel Audio not supporting 24-Bit can be fixed as it is apparently part of the low power spec of this CPU.
I too hope that future refinement of the GFX driver will also address the deinterlacing issue but I'm not holding my breath it will be anytime soon though as they are aiming this at media playback it could be....
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It would also be interesting how the Linux build would go as it may change some of these factors and of course lower the price of a ID on a Stick.
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I was hoping to use this Stick for as a ultra portable HTPC device so you could setup media playback in flexible locations (eg put it into the back of a PJ for a quick outside setup).
Those really inexpensive 7" x86 tablets seem like the better solution for that right now.
You still have Bluetooth, WiFi, USB, and a mini HDMI output, but you also get analog audio out, a battery, and a touchscreen so it's usable a self-contained device.
Even if that's just used to get it onto the WiFi network or configure an audio device, having the touchscreen rather than carrying around a keyboard & mouse seems to make the setup a lot more portable.
These compute sticks seem more suited to being configured once for your network and then permanently staying attached to a TV/AVR, to be controlled by Gizmo/JRemote or a Bluetooth Controller (e.g. a DualShock 4 in Theater View) rather than being a portable solution. The fact that they require USB power rather than being powered by the HDMI port reduces a lot of the appeal for me as well.
The main thing which has prevented me from buying something like this yet is that I really want 802.11ac so that they are also suitable for Steam in-home streaming, in addition to acting as a Media Center client. Having a combined 3.5mm and S/PDIF jack would be nice too.
The main issue for me will be the Deinterlacing of 1920x1080/50 or 60i issue as it rules out playback of BD TV Shows and Music Videos.
Have you tried enabling all the "trade quality for performance" options, using Bilinear/DXVA scaling, random dither etc with ROHQ?
I actually find that madVR can perform quite well even on low-end hardware, though the GPU here may not be enough.
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I'll give the ROHQ ideas a go and see how it goes and report back.
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Nope - the deinterlacing alone adds 30ms to the queue. I can "almost" get madVR working on 24p stuff but RO is the go.
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** Updated the Review ** - More playing with custom LAV setting and I "think" I have got to the bottom of the issue with the stuttering / slow mo / audio sync loss on my high bitrate 1080/50 or 60i material.
Good News: The stick has no problems playing this material back from an SD Card with RO Std
Bad News: The WiFi model maxs out at around 40Mbps (see the review for details)
Result: Pretty much the same. I can not play this material as it hits the HW limit of the adapter and hence I don't expect a driver update will address it.
I may try some more hubs/wired ethernet connections (though it defeats the purpose of the Stick - may as well get a NUC in one box rather that a stick and more boxs to add ports / adapters etc). I had already tried a cheap sub 2 hub / ethernet combo but found the ethernet port was only connected at USb 1.1 so only 10mbps throughput. I then tried plugging a USB Gigabit Ethernet adapter into the cheap hub but only got around 40Mbps as well.
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I wonder if the "real" Intel device may have one of their own Centrino WiFi adapters with more performance. This can really make the difference in a usable device, or well, not so much usable.
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TO compare JRMark scores. I got 918 on my LIVA pc and it struggles to play high bitrate 1080p x264, and 1080p x265. As in can't play at all. It can play 720p x265 but with an occasional stutter.
I'm thinking of getting something with the n2920 or wait for the AMD version of LIVA pc that is supposed to be released soon.
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I wonder if the "real" Intel device may have one of their own Centrino WiFi adapters with more performance. This can really make the difference in a usable device, or well, not so much usable.
You would hope so, given this rational behind this device you would really want something with better throughput than what this one has and Intel do have a wide spare parts kit they can choose from.
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There is a Firmware (http://www.freaktab.com/showthread.php?23577-GUIDE-Enable-MeeGoPad-Auto-Power-On) that has enabled Boot after power restore.
This is a good thing as one use scenario is:
- Plugged in behind a TV
- Getting power from the TV's USB port
... but if that ports turns off when the TV does you then need to reach behind you TV to find the stick and press the little button. Now it will just auto boot when power is restored.
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I bought an Orbsmart AW-01 (A 'Brother' of Meegopad T01) HDMI Stick this week.
http://www.orbsmart.com/portfolio-item/orbsmart-aw-01/ (http://www.orbsmart.com/portfolio-item/orbsmart-aw-01/)
It works really nice. 1080p x264 with Red October Standard is no Problem.
Now I'm testing my old HTPC as Server and this Stick as Client. I want to buy a NAS in near future.......
The only problem until now was the connection. Wifi is to slow for streaming 1080p movies wich have more than 8Gb filesize.
Now I'm using an USB-LAN Adapter and all works nice! 8)
One thing i couldn't figure out until now:
When starting MC 19 on the stick it wakes up the server pc. This is very good, but....
I have an other pc (workstation) in the same network. All are configured to WOL.
Which works like it should since 5 Years.
When the stick (MC 19) wakes up the HTPC Server, it also wakes up the other pc.
This happens only with mc.
What can i do to stop this behaviour? Can someone help me? ?
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I bought an Orbsmart AW-01 (A 'Brother' of Meegopad T01) HDMI Stick this week.
http://www.orbsmart.com/portfolio-item/orbsmart-aw-01/ (http://www.orbsmart.com/portfolio-item/orbsmart-aw-01/)
It works really nice. 1080p x264 with Red October Standard is no Problem.
Now I'm testing my old HTPC as Server and this Stick as Client. I want to buy a NAS in near future.......
The only problem until now was the connection. Wifi is to slow for streaming 1080p movies wich have more than 8Gb filesize.
Now I'm using an USB-LAN Adapter and all works nice! 8)
One thing i couldn't figure out until now:
When starting MC 19 on the stick it wakes up the server pc. This is very good, but....
I have an other pc (workstation) in the same network. All are configured to WOL.
Which works like it should since 5 Years.
When the stick (MC 19) wakes up the HTPC Server, it also wakes up the other pc.
This happens only with mc.
What can i do to stop this behaviour? Can someone help me? ?
At $144 Euro or $150 USD. At some point is it worth it to spend a little more and get a chassis based NUC?
Curious because I'm not in the market for 3 type systems and not looking forward to external power bricks which is why these plugin types
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For me it is. I've to say, i also wanted to buy a NAS some time ago.
And now with this product, it's nearly perfect for me...
Power for this stick comes from the USB Port on my TV. My HTPC is running now as server (for testing).
It's plugged directly to TV. Until now, there was nothing it didn't play well.
Later it will be plugged directly to my Onkyo Receiver to test if DTS-HD and Audiophile Music files also play well in Passthrough Mode.
Until now i can say, as a HTPC and workstation (Office, E-Mail, Internet) it handles all functions very well.
So if all is running nice, then i will sell my HTPC.
Of course it's not a gaming PC, but some older and Arcade Games should also run on this 'machine'.
The only problem i have until now, that MC 19 on this Stick is waking up two pc's and not only the one i need (HTPC/Library Server)
Some tip why MC is waking up all my network pc's? ?
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You may want to post your question in a separate thread on the main board as it looks like no one reading this thread knows the answer.
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i got his device from GearBest about a month ago. I did not have the brains to make an image of the disk when I first got it.
It came loaded with every kind of bloatware and Malware that you can imagine. A very nice person from MalWareButes tried to help me clean it but we were unsuccessful. I made a usb windows 8.1 install device and reload the whole thing.
The install went OK but Microsoft cannot find the drivers for the wi-fi, Bluetooth, sd card and several other devices.
I purchased a usb wi-fi dondel to get back on the network but have not been able to find the drivers, including the MeeGo web site, the intel web site and Microsoft.
After a long discussion with Microsoft trying to get me to pay them $150 with no guarantee that they could fix the problem they said they would send me a link to a site where I could download a program that would find the drivers.
This link http://www.mediafire.com/download/op..._Win8x.X86.zip immediately installed 5 viruses on my system and stuff like FindDiscaounts and pcoptimmzers along with the program that was supposed to find the drivers. The program would not run and it took me about three hours to get the other crap off the computer.
I sent a message to MeeGo asking for the drivers and they replied with the single word "elise", yeah just the single word.
I sent a message to GearBest and got no response.
Does anyone know where I can get the drivers?
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There is a link in my first post for the drivers extracted from my original install that should do the trick
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Thanks very much. I downloaded the drivers and they installed.
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any new reviews/opinions on these sticks?
looking to get my dad, and brother into htpc theaterview interfaces. They can not wrap their heads around gizmo/eos/jremote... to many buttons (they literally use their smartphones for alarm clocks, and for phone calls, that's it.)
they both have proven however, they can navigate theaterview with ease (up, down, left, right select)
what's your guys opinion on the most stable, cheapest theaterview interface for their hdtv's? been looking through craigslist for small form factor pc's... but many do not have hdmi
neither one of them have receivers just hdtv's... so a win 7 based with hdmi out that plays everything jriver can throw at it would be stellar. (audio/video)
thanks
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What type of video files are you trying to play? I had a liva pc and it worked really well. I've seen it got for around $99 on sale. That or any of these intel hdmi sticks can play any audio and any common video file. I played 1080p videos on the liva pc and it worked well.
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To me the entry level for a MC TheaterView client is a 2820 based NUC - I've had one since they came out and it just works (currently on Win10). Newer NUC are more powerful and should run ROHQ ... but they also cost more. The Compute Stick is a great concept but I really can not recommended them ... there are just too many compromises. The next version of the Stick may be a game changer.
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How about this one?
The specs and price point look pretty good...
http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/02/asus-vivostick/
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Nice looking stick. Here is the ASUS (https://www.asus.com/Stick-PCs/VivoStick-PC-TS10/#)webpage. They don't say what the Wifi module is but it will do "n". It also has an Audio Jack so could be a very good Headless Audio Renderer as well.
No news yet of availability yet but it will be on my shopping list to try out!
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I'm still holding out for the Core M version allegedly coming out in the winter which will have the "good" integrated graphics.
In other news in the under $200 mini-computer realm, this came out last week at $170, and looks respectable (for the price): http://www.anandtech.com/show/9554/ecs-liva-x2-review-a-compact-fanless-braswell-pc
AC wifi and USB3 ports. Probably won't run madvr, but otherwise looks pretty capable.
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And the Core M compute stick is announced (although no price details yet):
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/09/intel-announces-a-beefed-up-core-m-compute-stick-with-skylake/
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...and Intel seem vague about the release date (sometime next year?)
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If anyone's interested, http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_183132.html (http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_183132.html) here's the upgraded version T02. for 85 USD with Win8
http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_183131.html (http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_183131.html) 95$ for win10
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Just a few days ago I received my Nexxt PC Stick, at a cost of just € 160. It is the same as the Intel one but with a metal case which doubles as a heatsink. Yes it is FANLESS. The Intel stick is not, it is also reported to be quite noisy. It runs Windows 10 (pre-installed) and JRiver Media Center 21 without any problem. Wifi connection is fine. No problems with video too! I have been looking for such a solution for years, since my Raspberry Pi as a DNLA renderer took too much maintenaince. Super. I am happy as Larry. http://www.nexxtpc.com (http://www.nexxtpc.com)
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Does it use the Realtek RTL8723BS WiFi module? Also can you run a MC Benchmark and post the results (MC --> Help --> Benchmark)?
Thanks
Nathan
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Yes it does (RTL8723BS) but the stick works perfect for me as for audio I am satisfied with (for me bitperfect) cd-quality. And most content I look at (video) does not have to be played in a high quality format. I understand people want high quality hardware, but most software is not worth it. So the stick works perfect for me, I do not need IR with the Android App and I am not aware of any bottleneck so far.
Benchmark: 975 (it varied a bit around that number).
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Thanks & glad it is working for you. They really are an exciting form factor.
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Yeah I've been waiting for the next Gen but I might have to jump on the bandwagon too.
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I still could not recommend the current gen for an all purpose HTPC but the new stuff should be out "soonish"
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Yes it does (RTL8723BS) but the stick works perfect for me as for audio I am satisfied with (for me bitperfect) cd-quality. And most content I look at (video) does not have to be played in a high quality format. I understand people want high quality hardware, but most software is not worth it. So the stick works perfect for me, I do not need IR with the Android App and I am not aware of any bottleneck so far.
Benchmark: 975 (it varied a bit around that number).
It plays video too, both old (black and white!) and new movies in standard Red October though I do not know what this entails. It plays Valkerie without any hickup (I copied the video files to my server), but it takes 3 to 5 seconds to start. It's not immediately like with audio, but that's it. Works like a charm, cpu temperature around 50 Celsius (all 4 cores) which is fine or good. Thus I am even more Larry about it. It is a simple PC, Windows 10, and it runs MC21 quick. Bitperfect PCM 44,1 Hz 24 bits over HDMI.
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I still could not recommend the current gen for an all purpose HTPC but the new stuff should be out "soonish"
There is a Cherry Trail Intel Compute Stuck available now, and it includes an Intel 802.11ac WiFi module (ie GBit WiFi), so that sounds like it has plenty potential to be much better!
http://anandtech.com/show/9939/the-intel-compute-stick-cherry-trail-review
Networking throughput in particular is like 100x better than the previous official Intel compute stick.
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There is a Cherry Trail Intel Compute Stuck available now, and it includes an Intel 802.11ac WiFi module (ie GBit WiFi), so that sounds like it has plenty potential to be much better!
http://anandtech.com/show/9939/the-intel-compute-stick-cherry-trail-review
Networking throughput in particular is like 100x better than the previous official Intel compute stick.
And the announced Core M sticks are supposed to be here in Q1 2016, with pricing in the 300 to 400 range depending on the model (and the same ac wireless).
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And here is the Intel Page for them -
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick.html
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/compute-stick/intel-compute-stick-core.html
The upgraded Cherry Trail one for US$120 with the New WiFi look attractive at that price point for a MC media renderer and I'll get one to play with (my last year one is in a drawer gathering dust it is so bad). The only issue I see is that the review Hendrik posted mentioned that it still struggled with de-interlacing high frame-rate stuff and I'd be keen to see if that holds true.
The Core M ones will obviously be far better tech-wise but the price point will make that one a tougher decision for most I would have thought for such a device.
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Review of new Intel Compute Stick at Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/22/intel-compute-stick-2016-review/)
They don't hate it any more.
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They don't hate it any more.
if one sheep ... -)
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Anyone know if these sticks will support 1360x768 resolution?
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There is a link in my first post for the drivers extracted from my original install that should do the trick
Hello Jmone,
Could you please repost the Meegopad T01 drivers? I clean installed windows 10 and I need them.
Thanks, Ivan
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Hi Ivan, I'm away for a few weeks so will not be able to telink till then... Sorry:(
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Hi Ivan, I'm away for a few weeks so will not be able to telink till then... Sorry:(
Hey, no worries - share it when you can :) Thanks!
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Hey, no worries - share it when you can :) Thanks!
Actually I think that I bricked my device - I installed a program that auto updates the drivers and it updated the BIOS :D... now it won't turn on.
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FYI - I've updated the link to the drivers in the OP