INTERACT FORUM
Devices => PC's and Other Hardware => Topic started by: Gatherum on February 24, 2015, 10:41:01 pm
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Reposted from Nsider2, which is why obvious things, like explanations of what MC does, are present.
HTPC build 1 (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=26161352)
HTPC build 2 (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=19635649)
...with Panasonic UJ-265 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CFXZ9VA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=CBUF8W0GVGUB&coliid=I10EI45GHCINX8) (unavailable on Newegg)
So I am about to sell my gaming rig to a friend for about $600 (plus an additional $50 for the monitor) and replace it with a home theatre PC.
A bit of background: I originally bought and assembled the various parts for the aforementioned gaming PC back in early 2012, when I fully intended to make a concerted effort to become a PC gamer. To make a long story short, it was only after I had finished that I came to realise that many of the games I wished to play came with some sort of DRM malware (SecuROM being the most infamous). This, combined with my general distaste for WASD movement, caused me to shift my focus solely to console gaming and home theatre applications. That being said, the PC I built functions phenomenally as a high-end HTPC and has served me well these past three or so years, but for what I use it for, it is, to understate it, overkill. I have been thinking that I would like to build something a bit more modest in terms of form factor and power consumption to replace it, and the above lists represent my efforts so far.
The problem: having never seen or built an HTPC before, I am not confident that I have a clear perspective of the difference between one and a gaming PC, aside from the general knowledge that a proper build of the latter far outclasses the former (and pretty much everything else) in terms of sheer processing power and graphics rendering capabilities. Since I am building an HTPC, I am not looking to build something quite so powerful or expensive, but I am also not looking to build something underpowered as HTPC's go, and I was hoping I could get some advice from some of you on how to balance my hardware and budget to this end. :)
Parameters:
- Must play back 1080p video content without performance issues or bottlenecking--4K capability is nice in principle, but not necessary due to lack of content and because my TV, a Panasonic TC-P55VT60, does not (need to) support anything beyond "full HD".
- Must support 8-channel audio mixes (or, 7.1 if you prefer) and everything below that, again without performance issues or bottlenecking.
- Must be smaller than a mid-tower, but need not look like your typical set-top-box-esque HTPC (hence the case chosen).
- Must feature at least one USB 2.0 port, one USB 3.0 port, and one HDMI port.
Notes:
- This build will not be used for gaming; if it is, it will run something like Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic at the most, and even then, it's doubtful since my laptop could run that.
- It will not make use of a TV tuner, hardware remote, or any sort of DVR capability because I do not have, nor intend to obtain, cable/satellite subscriptions. I buy all of my media on CD, DVD, and BD; rip it via DVDFab; and play it all back via the JRiver Media Centre. Video streaming services like Crunchyroll and Hulu Plus are accessed via my Wii U.
- It is not necessary that the chassis has a lot of space for additional SSD's or HDD's because I have an external RAID controller that contains four HDD's totalling about 14 TB of storage space, which is where I store all my media. The only drive that will reside inside the chassis will be a single SDD with Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit installed on it, to be upgraded to Windows 10 when it is released later this year.
- Upon boot, JRiver Media Centre will immediately run at startup in theatre view, which is a ten-foot interface controllable by Gizmo, an Android app provided also by JRiver.
- All audio and video content will be passed via HDMI to my Marantz SR-5008, which is an A/V receiver that connects my TV, other devices (my gaming consoles, &c.), and my nine audio channels (seven speakers, two subwoofers).
- No other displays will be connected to this build. Non-MC operations and other maintenance will be performed with my laptop using a VNC client/server setup. A wireless USB keyboard will be used in the event that BIOS configurations and other pre-Windows operations must be performed.
- This build will make use of a wired network connection.
- I am interested in trying out an AMD build, hence the motherboards/socket types and processors selected. I have no specific logical reason for eschewing Intel processors and socket types this time around, other than that I'd like to try something new.
- Obviously, I am strongly favouring build 1 because of its minimal nature, because its lower overall cost would allow me some leftover funds from the sale, and because build 2 feels like it is approaching gaming rig territory again (in fact, looking at it in terms of sheer processing power, if not graphics processing, it would actually be slightly more powerful than my current gaming rig). The processing power difference between the two builds is almost 1.4 GHz. Normally, this would unnerve me, but then, I'm not gaming. Perhaps a quad-core, 2.05 GHz processor will be more than enough for what I need it for.
- These builds were compiled based on the case chosen, the Silverstone FT03-MINI, with the motherboard and processor coming second or third, depending, which I understand is fairly unusual methodology. Obviously, I'll be open to alternative suggestions, but for right now, I would like to stick to this case. The other components, as you can see, are fairly constant, but are also, admittedly, chosen based on good rating/price relationships i.e. the RAM was chosen because it totals 8 GB (my classic sweet spot, though I am flexible on this as well) and is the highest-rated available RAM on Newegg. Same idea with the SSD: I could conceivably go for something as small as 80 GB, but having bought a Samsung 840 EVO for my laptop relatively cheaply and finding it phenomenal, and seeing that the 850 EVO is still rated highly and even cheaper, I went with that.
- This build, and all other devices, will be turned off daily, during work hours and sleep, to conserve energy and to ensure longer equipment lifespans. In fact, all of the above-mentioned equipment is plugged into an energy saver surge protector, which features a master outlet that the TV is plugged in to. If the TV is turned off, then power is cut off from all of the dependent outlets. The only exceptions are the subwoofers, which are dependent instead on the A/V receiver, which is plugged as the master into a separate energy saver surge protector.
Questions:
- The G.Skill RAM listed in both builds indicates compatibility with Intel systems and AM3+ sockets. I am not seeing options on Newegg to filter RAM by socket/architecture compatibility. Does it really matter? Will the selected modules have any trouble working with the other components?
- Is it necessary to pay much mind to the onboard graphics/audio capabilities of either the motherboard or the CPU/APU when I am using an A/V receiver? Part of the reason we're here right now is because I have not been able to find any threads anywhere with someone else asking about how to build an HTPC in the context of a TV-with-A/V receiver setup, detailing the relationship between these devices.
- Would there be any notable worth in purchasing an 80 Plus Gold PSU over an 80 Plus Bronze PSU for either of these builds?
- Obligatory: will these parts work together? :P
I appreciate any and all help and advice. :)
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Pretty comprehensive write up and the only thing left is how picky you want to be about the "Video" up scaling quality. HTPC builds can be fairly modest as most are striving for something not too loud, so devices like the JRiver Id Classic (http://jriver.com/Id/) may even fit the bill, is cheap and comes prebuilt with a Linux MC image. This would makes a good HTPC entry level head unit. I have the same box but running windows and it does all but BD just fine (also off external pools), my review here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87617.msg600098#msg600098).
The next "step up" would be a mainstream CPU but is really all about the Video card if you want ROHQ (and the madVR high quality settings). At which point you really want to start looking at the trade of between noise, performance and of course price. For my main HTPC I manage to jam everything into a Shuttle SFF and the noise envolope meets my expectations just fine.
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Pretty comprehensive write up and the only thing left is how picky you want to be about the "Video" up scaling quality. HTPC builds can be fairly modest as most are striving for something not too loud, so devices like the JRiver Media Center ID Classic (http://jriver.com/Id/) may even fit the bill, is cheap and comes prebuilt with a Linux MC image. This would makes a good HTPC entry level head unit. I have the same box but running windows and it does all by BD just fine (also off external pools), my review here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87617.msg600098#msg600098).
The next "step up" would be a mainstream CPU but is really all about the Video card if you want ROHQ (and the madVR high quality settings). At which point you really want to start looking at the trade of between noise, performance and of course price. For my main HTPC I manage to jam everything into a Shuttle SFF and the noise envolope meets my expectations just fine.
I am pleased to hear that the Id has video capability now, since I remember it being said during its development that it would not at first. :)
Still, I would like to retain ROHQ/madVR, as well as Windows, since I am still heavily reliant on DVDFab and other pieces of muxing and subtitle editing software, and because I am intrigued by the forthcoming Windows 10 in general. That in mind, would the onboard graphics/video processing in the CPU's/APU's and/or motherboards in either of those builds suffice for ROHQ? I'm actually not too worried about noise; most builds involving this chassis, high-end or not, are known to be quite satisfactorily quiet.
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To use ROHQ with the best or near best settings you need a discrete video card. To do MadVR on medium settings I can personally verify that intel's integrated graphics can do the job, I have no experience with AMD integrated graphics whatsoever. My understanding is that they're better than Intel's in some ways, but worse in others.
To give you a calibration on what I mean, I have three systems:
Intel i5 NUC with Intel HD5000 integrated graphics: Can handle Jinc upscaling for non-interlaced material, and can handle lanczos for interlaced material, but either one requires increasing the number of buffered frames dramatically. With normal buffering settings it can handle Lanczos for non-interlaced material, and can do lanczos with some interlaced material.
NVidia 660 Ti: Can handle Jinc upscaling for all content types, but cannot generally handle NNEDI (although I can squeak out NNEDI scaling in in some areas on some content by dramatically increasing the frame buffering).
So think about what MadVR settings you plan to use and see if you can find some benchmarks of those AMD integrated graphics models
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I can't remember offhand what madVR settings I use already; I'll have to check when I get off work and post a report here. What I can say right now is that, whatever they are, they've been working perfectly fine using an NVidia GeForce GTX 560 TI.
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Generally speaking, is it conceivable that an AMD APU could handle madVR at high settings? I'm really trying not to have a discreet GPU this time around.
Will I actually need at least 8 GB of RAM? Can I survive on 4 GB with an optimal setup?
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Anyone?
So I played around with the madVR settings today. I have found myself to be quite satisfied with artifact removal set to high (both in general and fade in/out), chroma upscaling and image downscaling set to bicubic with a sharpness of 75, image upscaling set to Jinc at 3 taps, and smooth motion always on. For review, I have an NVidia GTX GeForce 560 TI.
1. Considering current hardware, have any of you any suggestions for changes to the above? Anything about it sound underpowering, overpowering, or just plain frivolous?
2. Are those settings reproduceable without issue on an AMD APU (either the Kabinis or the Kaveris)?
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I too like Jinc3 but I really don't know how you are going to run it on the iGPU's though I've no system to test on. From what I've seen, as better and better GPUs come out then madshi releases a better and better scaler to take advantage of the new horsepower.
My suggestion is have a look at the picture quality of RO Std. If you can live with that as a minimum then go ahead with your iGPU build and anything you can then squeeze out of RO HQ / madVR tweaking is a benefit.
If you can not live with RO Std then I'd be looking for a discreet GPU to make sure you have a hassle free and stable build.
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For perspective, the AMD Athlon 5350 (Kabini) integrates an AMD Radeon HD 8400, whereas the A8-7660 (Kaveri) integrates something in the R7 series. These are fairly recent GPU's. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but AMD have been known to be better about APU's than Intel is. *Shrug*