INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 29 for Windows => Topic started by: JimH on September 12, 2021, 04:38:54 pm
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JRVR, or JRiver Video Renderer, is our new in-house video renderer, designed from the ground up to be cross-platform and offer high-quality video playback on all devices.
JRVR is in active development, and is available now on Windows, Linux and Mac.
Philosophy
JRVR is designed with a few key ideas in mind
1) Cross-Platform
A cross-platform renderer allows us to offer a consistent video experience on all supported platforms, on Windows, Linux and Mac
2) High-Quality Video
High-Quality processing and presentation of the videos is the primary goal of JRVR. Including full support for HDR and other modern video technologies.
3) Ease of Use ("It just works!")
The experience should be good out of the box, and only get better with a bit of configuration, and not require hours of research to tune hundreds of options
4) Efficiency/Scalability
Low-end machines can still play video just fine. And we want to enable them to do so in high-quality. At the same time, faster machines can use more advanced features to get even more out of the videos.
JRVR may not be a full replacement for madVR for the hard core enthusiast, but it should work very well for the typical video user. And this is our goal. A solution that offers high-quality video for everyone, at no to very little setup effort.
Design
JRVR is designed on a flexible framework, supporting the Vulkan graphics API, D3D11 on Windows, as well as OpenGL, depending on what is available on your system.
This design allows JRVR to run on any system, from a high-end Windows desktop, down to a Raspberry Pi, with almost the same features.
On Linux and Mac, you should already be seeing improved performance and higher quality right now, in comparison to our old video renderer.
How to Use?
On Windows, you can opt-into using JRVR in Options -> Video -> Video Mode: Red October JRVR
JRVR is the default renderer on Linux and Mac, you can confirm it is enabled in Options -> Video -> Video Renderer
Status and Plans
JRVR is still in active development. For the current status and future plans, check our dedicated topic:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,131214.0.html
Technology
JRVR uses the excellent libplacebo rendering library (https://code.videolan.org/videolan/libplacebo) for all heavy lifting.
JRVR on the Wiki
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/JRVR_-_JRiver_Video_Renderer
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Ohhhh this sounds fun! I really wish my HTPC wasn't dead. I'll try it out on my laptop when it's ready though. madvr on PC has some...deficiencies that may never get resolved, so, you never know about that madvr statement.
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This is exciting! I can't wait to try it out.
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I too am pretty excited to see how this project goes! Well Done for taking this on.
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The first version coming later this week will be a preview, as there is still more to do, but it's basically ready to replace the old Mac/Linux video renderer, and already offers better features.
Here are the main features available today:
- Quality up/down scaling, selectable* from Bilinear to Jinc (with anti-ringing)
- High quality colorspace conversions
- HDR to SDR tonemapping, for HDR10 and HLG
- Dithering
- Optional debanding
- Linearization/sigmoidization for upscaling
- Subtitle blending and colorspace correction
Future plans:
- OSD integration, blending and color correction
- Zero-copy decoding (eg. "Native"), D3D11 on Windows, VAAPI (and maybe others) on Linux, Mac TBD
- 3DLUT
- HDR pass-through
- Investigate doubling-type scalers (nothing concrete on these yet)
Known Limitations:
- DVD and Blu-ray Menu playback is not yet supported
The version coming this week will not have access to all of these features listed above, mainly because the settings dialog is taking a lot of detail work, and will be added as a next step, while I take this week to make sure it works on all platforms. :)
The Linux/Mac video engine also lacks integration of some video image control features, like Pan&Scan and other size controls, which won't be available right away here either, but we will definitely hook all of those up properly now, as the renderer makes it much easier for us to control all of this than the old one did.
Integration into Red October for Windows is still a work in progress, and will come in a few weeks.
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Hendrik, that is an amazing list of features and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it goes on Windows. For me
- Jinc+AR has always been a good sweet spot
- HDR, HLG tonemapping + Passthrough is a big benefit. Will it be "smart" in that if I have an HDR file will it passthrough if connected to an HDR display else tonemap?
- I "presume" it will work with Blu ray structure playback?
- Any changes / benefits to the display rate / ability to tune timing to prevent dropped/repeated frames when bitstreaming?
Best news I've heard in ages, but looks like us Windows users will have to wait a bit longer!
Thanks
Nathan
F5 F5 F5
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Now, what this really needs is a selectable scaling profile based upon video tags. Should be easy if all the settings are integrated with MC :P (I know, probably not easy....)
I've got some older RM content that would really benefit from a dedicated scaling profile.
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Sounds great
Would be nice to get integration with measurements tools (i.e. a patch generator that can be driven via an API) for (auto)calibration purposes, aka a madtpg replacement
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Please hold your requests for a while. Hendrik has his hands full.
I may move them to a new thread.
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- HDR, HLG tonemapping + Passthrough is a big benefit. Will it be "smart" in that if I have an HDR file will it passthrough if connected to an HDR display else tonemap?
Smart HDR is of course the ideal goal, HDR that "just works" would be a great advancement over the current situation, but we'll have to see if everything cooperates. But its definitely the goal.
- I "presume" it will work with Blu ray structure playback?
Once its available on Windows, it should work with anything that EVR/madVR can work with, ideally. Blu-ray menus will take some extra work for the interactive menus, but we'll get there.
- Any changes / benefits to the display rate / ability to tune timing to prevent dropped/repeated frames when bitstreaming?
There aren't exactly any things you can do. You render video on VSYNC and thats it. I would love to be able to use HDMI VRR, but its entirely designed for gaming, eg. render as fast as you can, not for video, eg. "present video at perfect time X", it would be great if extensions come around that allow perfectly timed presentation, but alas I have not seen anything like that.
Now, what this really needs is a selctable scaling profile based upon video tags. Should be easy if all the settings are integrated with MC :P (I know, probably not easy....)
Profiles are like a Future-Future-Plan, but profiles are overall pretty useful, as different content will require different settings once you start properly tuning, so in the long run we'll likely have them, but not right away.
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This is definitely exciting. HDR that "just works" would be a huge benefit to all. While I love madvr and the quality it gives, it's not for the faint of heart, the current development is geared towards improving their for profit product, and there are many bugs that may never get cleaned up. nVidia even had to work around a madvr issue in their driver due to getting flooded with so many complaints about it breaking madvr. Technically that should have been the other way around. My point here isn't to deride madvr at all. It's brilliant. But for most users, having something that "simply works" is going to be a godsend. I'm extremely excited to see the development on this. Anything we can do to help test and move it along, you can bet we'll be there. :)
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This is super exciting. The video renderer on macOS is stinky.
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Thanks for the info, the roadmap looks great and well thought out
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Smart HDR is of course the ideal goal, HDR that "just works" ....
Another Q that popped into my mind overnight is on Win 11 - Now you can leave HDR ON all the time and Windows tone maps? SDR --> HDR (do I have that correct), and if so will JRVR work with this or ??
Thanks
Nathan
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Hooray, I can finally move my HTPC client from Windows to Linux! That should remedy a lot of issues caused by mixing OSes I've run into lately. My little 1505G rig can't quite do Jinc with madVR for 1080P->4K, I'm very curious if this will allow higher quality settings to be used on the low-end. I'm also interested in tonemapping performance because my 8-bit panel renders 10-bit content terribly. Can't wait to test it out. I'm waiting on a 15ft USB cable to arrive so I can test out a live USB on my HTPC.
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This is very cool!
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There's a small possibility of a Linux build today. If not, probably Thursday.
Don't expect too much. We'll be doing well if this build installs and runs.
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Linux builds are here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130673.msg906019.html#msg906019
More soon.
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Amazing work, thank you! Hopefully over time it will completely replace MadVR.
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Wow, this came out of nowhere, great and exciting news :)
I take it that madVR will still be retained as Red October HQ option (as I'm currently using that)?
However, it is a great idea to have an internal/own renderer you can develop to whatever is needed. No longer will you then have to rely on external programs. And maybe, with madVR development being basically geared completely towards Envy, with nobody knowing whether the madVR "Plus" (i.e. paid) version will ever come, the JRVR will some day be close enough in features and image quality that there's basically no longer any need for using madVR.
Also, you now have the advantage of being able to fully integrate this into the rest of MC.
Like I said, great and exciting news. I'll try to closely follow this. Thanks Hendrik :)
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Do we need an external graphics card or is Intel iGPU or AMD APU enough?
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Is it possible to output decoded video untouched at 4:2:0 bypassing Windows RGB? Kind of bitperfect streaming for video.
So can feed this directly to video processors like Lumagen or Envy for processing of "original" material without any chroma upscaling.
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Is it possible to output decoded video untouched at 4:2:0 bypassing Windows RGB? Kind of bitperfect streaming for video.
So can feed this directly to video processors like Lumagen or Envy for processing of "original" material without any chroma upscaling.
This is not possible.
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Sounds good and i am very excited to test it.
Madvr is surely good, but horrible for most to set it up for max. performance depending on used hardware.
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This is not possible.
Darn ... then must keep MadVR around at least for chroma upsampling
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Great news! More and more happy to have paid my "mite" ;D every year to JRiver's boys
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Darn ... then must keep MadVR around at least for chroma upsampling
Why? Hendrick didn't say chroma upscaling wasn't possible, only sending untouched 4:2:0 chroma. Which is a windows/driver limitation that they have no control over. But they could certainly upscale chroma like madvr does. Maybe not using NGU or whatever but certainly with jinc.
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There's a chance we'll get a Mac build out today. Fingers crossed.
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There's a chance we'll get a Mac build out today. Fingers crossed.
It's out now:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130689.msg906127.html#msg906127
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Maybe not using NGU or whatever but certainly with jinc.
Exactly that ... plus i realize 4:2:0 will not work nicely with subtitles. This is only for dedicated movie room where i try to get maximum quality (even though it can be argued that i cannot percive the differdnce between NGU and Jinc on real content)
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I am very interested in this new video renderer, but will MadVR still be available on JRiver for the foreseeable future? I have spent many hours learning to use it and may not want to move from it. I just started using "black bar detection" and really like it. Not sure if JRVR will include that feature.
It would seem that having both options available would be the ideal scenario.
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There will still be options.
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I just started using "black bar detection" and really like it...
For those with a 21: 9 screen, it would be interesting if JRVR had this option along with "screen config"
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Black Bar detection is not currently planned, but the future is a long time.
One advantage MC has is of course the library, so even if we don't have detection, we might be able to more easily let you manually specify different image configurations for videos. Or move detection to an offline analysis process, instead of trying to do it during playback. We shall see. We'll start collecting requests/ideas once we're further along in the development of the core features currently in the works.
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I use blackbar detection and the automated zoom in madvr in order to use an anamorphic lens, do you plan to support this or that will be one of those to consider later?
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This is excellent news!
Please if you can, support 3D if possible! SBS, TAB, and MVC (though I use TAB now on a 4K set since nVidia dumped 3D support in their drivers).
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Thank you Hendrik and everyone involved in this project. This is great news. It makes using Linux a viable proposition, especially if there is/will be a WDM equivalent on Linux too.
Very excited to see it in action on Windows too.
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Our next JRiver Id will use the new renderer. Please read more about the IdVR (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130756.0.html).
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Black Bar detection is not currently planned, but the future is a long time.
So no black bar detection for now, but neither "screen config"? For those who have a projector and a 21: 9 screen, this is a really cool feature
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We can't think about niche features before even the major features are done. Feel free to come back to that once its more complete and document your needs then - with more details.
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I agree, lets get Version 1 up and going. Then we can see how well it performs, it's relative strengths and weaknesses, from which we can all pile on Hendrik for what we "need"! Can't wait to test it out.
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Thank you :)
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Couldn't agree more. Building a "stable base" from which to build out is super important. if you try to add too much other stuff before you have that stable base, then it becomes that much harder to find and fix issues as they arise. This renderer is complicated enough without additional potential issues to wade through. I'm very much looking forward to seeing it evolve.
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I am am curious to know what thinking lead to seeing a need for an in-house renderer? Ease of use for less technically minded, perhaps?
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Cross platform functionality.
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Also for Windows, MadVR has stopped development of its free version and there's no good replacement. JRVR might also not be free, but at least it doesn't cost 10000€ like MadVR's new business model.
Regarding features... Have patience, this is a years-long process. Just look at MadVR development history (https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/version-history). Any complex tool is like that, slowly rolling out new features and many bugfixes on every release.
@Hendrik, is JRVR [eventually] usable by other apps like MPC-HC?
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I am am curious to know what thinking lead to seeing a need for an in-house renderer? Ease of use for less technically minded, perhaps?
There aren't exactly any good alternatives ready to use available. Microsofts EVR handles very basic needs only, but is not very extensible and doesn't support many modern features. madVR is fine, but it has several issues that went unaddressed for years and its future is rather uncertain in face of it competing with its own hardware version, despite promises of continued updates in the future, its been a long time since the last update and it doesn't seem like that'll change soon.
Other renderers used by DirectShow players are typically old or based on EVR with all its limitations.
So if we want to offer a reliable video experience that we actually have control over, having our own is the natural conclusion.
In the past we were lucky that madVR's goals aligned with what we needed for video, but actually having control in our own hands just makes more sense.
The second factor is cross-platform support. As we make a new renderer, it'll not only be available for Windows, but also for Linux and Mac, bringing video features much closer to parity between platforms (platform limitations not withstanding).
This has been a long-standing concern for Linux and Mac users, because video playback, while functional, was not even comparable to the Windows experience. We aim to change this now.
Additional concerns like making it easier to use are certainly a bonus and something definitely on my mind when designing the options, but it was not a thought directly driving the decision to start this project.
TL;DR: The current situation on Windows leaves us worrying for the future, and combined with cross-platform goals, this was the only conclusion that could really fullfill our design goals.
Regarding features... Have patience, this is a years-long process.
Hopefully not quite years, but otherwise definitely right. The features outlined in my earlier post in this thread should be ready soon after the first preview release, but anything beyond that (either already listead as a Future Plan above, or beyond that) will just take time, but we are definitely commited to create a quality video renderer that can serve Media Center for years to come.
@Hendrik, is JRVR [eventually] usable by other apps like MPC-HC?
No. Its a core component of Media Center.
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To add a little to Hendrik's comments, we should have a more efficient renderer that will run on lighter weight gear or do 4K on equipment that isn't quite powerful enough now.
I think that makes it greener too.
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This is great news, especially considering the current prices of GPUs which certainly do not entice you to upgrade your hardware
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If iGPU or APU would be enough, this would be very high value regrading green value and money -a RTX 3060 TI cost more than 700€ in Germany which is more than double the price of my old GTX 960 and that only for video upscaling and rendering!
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Crypto mining might take a pause with China’s new stance. ‘Course, that’ll mean a huge dump of abused GPU’s onto the market. Still that should allow new card prices to drift downward.
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If iGPU or APU would be enough, this would be very high value regrading green value and money
It always depends what you expect it to do. Get you an image? Sure, integrated graphics will probably be fine. Fancy features? Guess we'll see how much you can push that.
We are definitely aiming to also offer a way to run on lower hardware as well as we can make it, but of course not everything will be available then.
There is a lot of potential to tune for performance vs. quality/features, hopefully we can properly guide the setup for users to pick the right one.
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Are you doing internal comparative testing vs. MadVR? Will you provide guidance for users as to what hardware profiles/scenarios will benefit from JRVR over MadVR and vice versa?
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Has this been tested with the Messa Vulkan driver on a Raspberry Pi 4? I just updated JRiver on a Pi4 Raspberry OS 64bit and played a normal DVD .vob file fine, .mkv also works. Wondering if it is worth the trouble to install Mesa Vulkan.
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Vulkan on RPi4 is not currently functional as far as I could tell, too many missing features still. We require at least Vulkan 1.1 support. But it'll run on OpenGL on the RPi4.
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Vulkan on RPi4 is not currently functional as far as I could tell, too many missing features still. We require at least Vulkan 1.1 support. But it'll run on OpenGL on the RPi4.
I can confirm Vulkan works in Raspberry Pi OS based on Bullseye, as least in the arm64 variant. I'm currently running the beta arm64/64-bit version of Raspberry Pi OS based on Bullseye and Vulkan is quite functional using demos like vkcube and verifying with vulkaninfo.
I might try to load up RetroArch and see if any of the cores that supports Vulkan works fine on the Pi.
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I can confirm Vulkan works in Raspberry Pi OS based on Bullseye, as least in the arm64 variant. I'm currently running the beta arm64/64-bit version of Raspberry Pi OS based on Bullseye and Vulkan is quite functional using demos like vkcube and verifying with vulkaninfo.
There is a difference between vkcube working and enough features being exposed for Vulkan 1.1 compatibility. The latest update on the RPi4 Vulkan driver I read from August was that they are still working on 1.1 features, so it definitely won't be in a released Mesa driver yet.
You can try to run MC28 for Linux with video on it, and it'll try to use Vulkan, but the log will tell you if it worked or what might be missing. All features should be probed dynamically, so it'll work when it can. But the good news is that the driver is improving and hopefully it will work once they release a new version. In the meantime, OpenGL works just fine as well.
In any case, we can further discuss this on the Linux board. :)
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Ive only just found out today about the new JRVR which I think is very exciting news!
Ive been using Red October madvr for years and have the 1080ti card.
Ive pretty much mastered madvr and found its very stable on NGUs highest settings upscaling everything to 4K.
I use passthrough for HDR letting my JVC NX9 projector do the tone mapping.
I dont use madvr for my Isco anamorphic stretch I let the proj do it.
1. One thing I do like with madvr is the sharpening section which Ive made up a number of buttons on the ipad for, e.g. Sharpness 1, 2, 3, 4 etc, is it likey JRVR may have a setting like this in the future?
2. If I upgrade my JR version to the new MC28 will it save all my old settings in JR and will I still be able to use madvr Red October for comparing the two?
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This is really cool news!
One question: will it support HDR10+ and/or Dolby Vision passthrough in Windows?
Thank you
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Will be very interesting to see, vastly more easy to say, than to implement of course, but I would rather have a 99% quality thing that is easily setup to deliver that quality, with not too much hassle with HDR, Upscaling, reclocking and fine tuning all that, than the absolute best in quality.
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A preview of JRVR is in MC28.0.73, which is on the beta board now, and should be on this board in the coming week.
I moved the test reporting thread here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130905.0.html
It's good news so far.
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Definitely looking nice so far!
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A preview is available now: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130913.msg907597.html#msg907597 (build 73).
For now it's Red October JRVR. The name may change. No new features, but video quality is improved compared to (at least) EVR.
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There is a difference between vkcube working and enough features being exposed for Vulkan 1.1 compatibility. The latest update on the RPi4 Vulkan driver I read from August was that they are still working on 1.1 features, so it definitely won't be in a released Mesa driver yet.
You can try to run MC28 for Linux with video on it, and it'll try to use Vulkan, but the log will tell you if it worked or what might be missing. All features should be probed dynamically, so it'll work when it can. But the good news is that the driver is improving and hopefully it will work once they release a new version. In the meantime, OpenGL works just fine as well.
In any case, we can further discuss this on the Linux board. :)
I enabled JRVR renderer, and disabled buffering for low powered devices. OpenGL enabled on the PI. RPI4 will not play 1080i video correctly. The video is being retrieved over network from Windows 10 box using CIFS mount. Network speeds are fine. Audio plays fine with this setup including downmixing 6 channel dsf to 2 channel 96/24.
Video starts but, very slowly, displaying series of still frames from the video. The RPI4 is a 4gb and SSD based.
It sounds as if expectation is this should now work on RPI4?
So, are there other relevant RPI4 / JRiver settings or do I just need to wait for future release, or just not a good use case for the PI4?
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Before I do the update, I just want to confirm that MadVR will still be an option, along with JRVR. Right? Thanks!
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Yes. Madvr is still available.
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Yes. Madvr is still available.
Thank you! I downloaded it. Are there no settings to tweak JRVR yet?
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Not that I'm aware. "It just works(tm)".
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A few observations with the Windows version:
7700K and 1080Ti (on an HDR TV that doesn't display HDR right)
Picture quality in Foundation TV series (HDR source) is excellent - as good as MadVR, and maybe better. This is compared to MadVR tone mapping. However, it stutters occasionally where MadVR drops zero frames.
Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G using integrated APU video on an HDR capable screen:
Tested with Allegiant UHD HDR rip:
Looks over saturated and is juddery in places in JRVR.
Small improvements in PQ with hardware acceleration turned off, but still over saturated), but less-so than with acceleration on.
MadVR, is smoother and looks better with both HDR passthrough and tone-mapping.
With an Adele (1080p SDR, 25fps converted to 29fps, I believe) concert bluray JRVR was better out of the box. I had automatic display refresh rate set to show 29 fps material at 29 Hz. In MadVR it is stuttery, unless this setting is changed to 59 Hz. JRVR did a good job even at 29Hz compared to MadVR.
It's still very exciting to have thins feature, even as a preview. I can't wait to see it in its finished form with HDR pass-through and improved tone-mapping, some configurables and an OSD for monitoring/debugging.
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Some insights with my low-end system
Ryzen 5 2500U with integrated Vega 8 APU on Laptop
The mauretanian 4K HDR rip on Full-HD integrated screen
MadVR: 30% CPU 93% GPU (60Hz, moderate parameter: scaling, HDR tone mapping)
JRVR: 8% CPU 73% GPU, 95% GPU RAM usage, no idea of the frequency
colors look the same, madVR perhaps a little bit sharper. But, very promising!!! Looking forward to test it on my JVC- X7900 projector!
Good work and thank you!
BR,
Thorsten
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Report from my system, AMD Athlon 4x4,2GHz and GTX1070
4K with HDR is OK, no Problems, some 1080p videos run without problems, some with heavy judder (for example Firefox (Clint Eastwood)) is horrible to watch.
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Report from my system, AMD Athlon 4x4,2GHz and GTX1070
4K with HDR is OK, no Problems, some 1080p videos run without problems, some with heavy judder (for example Firefox (Clint Eastwood)) is horrible to watch.
Please include the build of MC that you're using.
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i am running on windows 10 64bit, i have tried the 'JRVR' preview option. However, the menu controls on the blu ray discs i have tried do not work. normally for example, they may start with a language option, and that button is highlighted with a tab or colour change. This is not visible so there is no way to access a specific menu function.
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i am running on windows 10 64bit, i have tried the 'JRVR' preview option. However, the menu controls on the blu ray discs i have tried do not work. normally for example, they may start with a language option, and that button is highlighted with a tab or colour change. This is not visible so there is no way to access a specific menu function.
It's on the list of features for Hendrik to add.
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Please include the build of MC that you're using.
The Actual 64bit Version
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I just purchased version 28 for this feature alone ! Thanks for enabling it !
While the gamma conversion from HDR to SDR seems to work really well, I am currently running on a colorspace limitation, for which I am not sure how to overcome. Please, appreciate your comments.
On the same HTPC that I use MPC-BE with Madvr and get (HDR converted to) SDR BT2020 output, I am currently only getting SDR REC 709 using JRiver with the video renderer selected. Is there a place I need to configure, in order to make BT 2020 as the selected output colorspace ?
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JRVR currently always targets SDR BT.709, there are no options yet to change that. Those will be added later.
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JRVR currently always targets SDR BT.709, there are no options yet to change that. Those will be added later.
Thanks. I believe this is a critical feature for projector owners like myself.
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Hello all.
I have a few questions.
First of all I use a projector which is capable of Rec2020 but couldn’t output HDR.
So I need the the option of SDR/rec2020 HDR tonemapping.
I also need to have a option to select the display nits (since I’m using a projector it is very low (60 nits)).
Other than that is it possible to play UHDs directly from disc (also Blu-ray) or do I need to rip them on my NAS?
I really would like to use the Linux version because I will have to build a new HTPC and don’t want to buy a new operating system.
What would you recommend as GPU?
Since I do need tonemapping and upscale from FHD to UHD I’m afraid I need a Nvidia GeForce 30xx which is at the moment „a little“ pricey ;)
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I can answer some of these (but I'm a Windows user so unsure on the Linux side as the Windows version of MC is the most feature complete):
- is it possible to play UHDs directly from disc (also Blu-ray)? Yes, but if it is a commercial disc you will need to run a real time decrypter in the background like AnyDVD. MC will then give the option of playing the full disc (with Menus etc), or just the "Main Title"
- What would you recommend as GPU? I've had no issue with good mid range cards like the 1660Ti , plenty of power for most anything and well priced.
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I can answer some of these (but I'm a Windows user so unsure on the Linux side as the Windows version of MC is the most feature complete):
- is it possible to play UHDs directly from disc (also Blu-ray)? Yes, but if it is a commercial disc you will need to run a real time decrypter in the background like AnyDVD. MC will then give the option of playing the full disc (with Menus etc), or just the "Main Title"
- What would you recommend as GPU? I've had no issue with good mid range cards like the 1660Ti , plenty of power for most anything and well priced.
Thanks a lot for your quick reply. I heard a lot from MadVr regarding tonemapping and upscale from full hd to Uhd and that you need at least a Nvidia 1080ti for this. It would be awesome if I could use an 1660ti for that. Like I wrote before, I use a projector which is capable of rec2020 but not hdr. So I Need hdr to sdr tonemapping. Otherwise, the picture is too dark.
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Just downloaded the Windows Version, running through win10 on a Zotac ID68 (i5 4200 + Intel HD4400 Family Graphic Card), not 4K.
The image is beautiful running BluRay ISO, maybe better than MadVR. Unfortunatelly, there is an issue with BluRay menu, once only the background image is shown, without the navigation options.
On DVD ISO, the program stucks for abaou 10/20 seconds and do not open, skipping to the next movie file.
Subtitles do not start automatically. It must turned off and on again for the subs to show.
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There are many things that still need to be hooked up. The current releases are only for preview purposes, for you to get an idea of quality and performance, and for Hendrik to find out what's broken.
Our goal is to have the highest quality possible, to be as efficient as possible so that it runs on low power equipment and uses less electricity, and to keep it simple to set up and use.
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If they are only for preview purposes, will the run indefintely or do I have to aquire a license?
Asking, because I would love to check out the progress of development and once it is stable and suits my needs just go and buy it and switch over to it.
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When you install MC, a 30 day trial begins. At the end of that period, it expires.
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I find that a littlebit difficult for a preview. For a stable release this is fine, but I would like to use the preview to come back every now and then and check on the status of things. I would not really want to spend much money on that.
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A few things on that. First, buying a license for JRiver will solve that problem and I can tell you assuredly it's worth the price of admission. Even if you're going to use madvr as your "daily driver" until JRVR is more mature, I can tell you that JRiver has been my only go to media center software for years. Worth every penny IMNSHO.
Second, if you're dead set on waiting to purchase a license until JRVR meets your needs, then you may want to hold off on previewing/trialing MC until JRVR advertises all the features you're looking for. At that point you can do a proper evaluation on whether you truly want to switch or not.
Just my thoughts as an end user.
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Well, I get the impression that development here is rather promising, so I guess, I will just buy a license to support the good effords from my end, hoping it will just turn out to be what I need.
Is there still this Linux only license available? I did not fully understand the different licensing types yet.
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You can buy a linux or mac or windows only license, or you can buy a master license that allows you to install on any of the supported OS'. It's really a tremendous product and an excellent team.
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FWIW, I purchased a license and a few upgrades well before I managed to roll out a full implementation, i.e. MC Library Server and Clients as sources in my various A/V systems in my house. I never had any doubt about the product or the team. I never had any doubt that this was the way I wanted to go.
Jeff
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Sine I dont use either Windows or MacOS a Linux license will do. Will this be valid for more than one machine? I like to have a test Installation apart from my main System.
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Sine I dont use either Windows or MacOS a Linux license will do. Will this be valid for more than one machine? I like to have a test Installation apart from my main System.
Yes. You can use it on all "your" machines, within reason.
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I have tried JRVR too; I have compared madVR HDR passthrough (my Philips OLED805 doing the processing) vs JRVR HDR tone mapping
Unfortunately I cannot post pictures since I cannot capture the HDR signal from my TV; I have also tried taking pictures with my phone but the results are useless
I have played the Samsung Wonderland test clip: at 1:30 there is a scene with snow-capped mountains in the background - I always use that for testing HDR
If I use madVR HDR passthrough I can see that the snow is not entirely white, there is a lot of detail
If I use JRVR HDR tone mapping the details are gone unfortunately, it all bleeds in white
Would be nice for JRVR to support HDR passthrough too (including HDR10+ and Dolby Vision) and also to have some quality settings for the tone mapping (like in madVR)
Thank you
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Hendrik has HDR passthrough on his list of features to implement. I too found that the current default of BT2390 blows out the highlights, but in MC 28.0.78 you can change that to Hable and the details in the highlights will be preserved.
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Hi
just tried the JRVR. I must admit for „out of the box“ I really like it. Sure, there might be some more updates until competing with madvr pro users….however if you do not want to dig too much in 1000 options, it seems to be a good alternative!
Has anybody yet an idea what is a reasonable hardware minimum config? I saw cpu/gpu usage lower than on madvr. Since not everybody wants to spent on a rtx3080 like I have now.
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I used my backup 1050 Ti for tests and so far never saw GPU usage above 50%, also not when tonemapping was used. RAM went higher but nowhere near its 4GB limits.
My CPU is an Intel Pentium Gold, which is fairly favorite amongst HTPC-builders, because you get a pretty good bang for the buck, and runs Windows and MadVR just fine, so there should be enough headroom for JRiver MC which is obviously a lot easier on resources.
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How will JRVR deal with frame rates? In madVR its possible to turn off motion interpolation.
Will JRiver use the "Display Settings" in the Video options to output at those custom fixed resolutions and frame rates?
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JRVR works fine with the MC goodies including Display Rate changing, AV Sync Correction, and Video Clock!
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Is there any chance this will come to Android at some point? Specifically I'd love to see this up on my SHIELD at some point but don't know how technically feasible that would be.
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Is there any chance this will come to Android at some point? Specifically I'd love to see this up on my SHIELD at some point but don't know how technically feasible that would be.
Chance? Maybe. But not anytime soon. Mobile-class hardware is quite limited in itself, and with Android limitations on top..
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Chance? Maybe. But not anytime soon. Mobile-class hardware is quite limited in itself, and with Android limitations on top..
Yea, I kind of assumed that'd be the case but it never hurts to ask. :) Thanks!
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Some further update: tried JRVR on HP Laptop with Intel 620 GPU and 4K HDR Tone Mapping works like a charm!
(using Hable)
The only problem is that playback randomly stops in like every 5 minutes, not sure if others have experienced the same....
Thank you
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Tried with Red October Standard too, just for testing purposes: it randomly stops playback too
Maybe this is a generic issue with the latest release (28.0.78)? Or maybe the problem is with my laptop...?
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Does anything play that file successfully?
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Sorry, just turned out to be a USB HDD connected to the laptop...as soon as I disconnected it everything went fine
Sorry for the false alarm!
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Thanks for reporting what you found.
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Anxiously waiting for the BT2020 output option :) :)
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Anxiously waiting for the BT2020 output option :) :)
Me too. Need the tonemapping hdr sdr for my projector.
Hopefully a 1050ti will do the job since the
RTx gpus are way too expensive
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28.0.80 is available now and supports configuring the output colorspace.
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BT2020 output option is available now, but you may find DCI-P3 a better option given no screens can do 2020 but most have pretty good DCI-P3 coverage. Give it a go. Looks great!
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Any chance a 1050ti will do the tonemapping (HDR->SDR) and upscale from HD to UHD? MadVR wasn't able to do it (you need at least a 1080TI for that)??
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28.0.80 is available now and supports configuring the output colorspace.
Awesome, JRiver rocks !! Very fast customer response
Thank you, will be testing tonight.
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Any chance a 1050ti will do the tonemapping (HDR->SDR) and upscale from HD to UHD? MadVR wasn't able to do it (you need at least a 1080TI for that)??
Even my iGPU can do this with JRVR.... and my 1660Ti does it with ease. Give it a try.
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BT2020 output option is available now, but you may find DCI-P3 a better option given no screens can do 2020 but most have pretty good DCI-P3 coverage. Give it a go. Looks great!
It's just over saturating if the display expects bt2020 but you give it dci-p3. It's the old preference vs reference discussion of course but I think it is misleading to link these things (what the display can do in practice, what format the display expects)
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Even my iGPU can do this with JRVR.... and my 1660Ti does it with ease. Give it a try.
Thanks. As soon I'm getting the GPU i will try it ;)
Could you tell me what the next feature SuperRes Enhancement does (maybe a upscale feature from HD to UHD with the same quality MadVR does)??
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I don't know the details of this, we will have to wait and see when Hendrik implements superres.
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SuperRes is a post-processing filter that reduces upscaling artifacts and increases sharpness. madVR supports it as well.
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Hi,
will there be something like HSTM (MadVr) implemented?
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Hi,
will there be something like HSTM (MadVr) implemented?
I dont think its on list to do yet ... Hendrik said he will work on features next (stat overlay, control overlay, disk menu, etc)
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Apologies if this is a silly question - but would we still use Lavfilters as well. I'm using MC26 with Madvr and Lav at the moment. I'm upgrading to MC28 once JRVR has 'settled in' with its core features.
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will there be something like HSTM (MadVr) implemented?
HSTM is just a tone mapping algorithm, jrvr has a couple of options here already implemented
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Just a silly question. If I’m using the dci p3 option which is new in the latest beta I have to choose an my projector the dci calibration setting and use this as a standard setting ? I do not have to switch the setting on my projector even if I’m playing a Blu-ray? So the setting is standard and I could watch uhd or Blu-ray if I may?
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From my subjective observations, the video renderer is working really well - it definitively rivals MadVR (after tweaking some of the options) - Thank you JRiver for the very good job on this one !!
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Definitely liking this a lot. Finally got my laptop set up. It's got a 2080 under the hood so it's got some definite power. I have some questions. One of the things I do because I'm on an LG OLED is that I set the second display to 2160, 23.976, YCbCr 444 limited. Hendrick, can there be an option to set JRVR to FULL video levels? It would be extremely helpful.
I seem to be getting some dropped frames but that's likely cause I'm scaling (playing with that now) 1080p->2160.
So far this is extremely promising. Video looks great.
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Wow. Just read about this a couple of days ago and tried it tonight playing A Quiet Place 2, UHD Blu Ray. Amazing difference. I had turned off MadVR because I must have screwed it up somehow and it was crashing playback. With this new JRVR, I just turned it on. Going back and forth between standard and the JRVR, the difference is quite dramatic on my JVC RS400 projector. Well done. At the risk or screwing it up, are there any settings to consider changing?
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Hendrick, can there be an option to set JRVR to FULL video levels? It would be extremely helpful.
JRVR will currently always target full levels with no option to change it.
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@hendrik: Any chance there will be a FI implemented (1080P 23,976 fps -> 4K 60 fps)? If so i think i will need to have a high end gpu, right?
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@hendrik: Any chance there will be a FI implemented (1080P 23,976 fps -> 4K 60 fps)? If so i think i will need to have a high end gpu, right?
Hendrik is on vacation this week.
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Thanks for the info. He earned it ;)
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JRVR will currently always target full levels with no option to change it.
Well that certainly helps me. :D Thanks and enjoy your vacation.
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Frame interpolation is not currently planned.
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Thanks Hendrik maybe in the future? Now get back to your holiday ;)
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Hope the Auto detection of black bars ,Zoom,cropping and stretch feature to remove Black bars from video is soon incorporated.
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If all the requested features will be implemented who needs madvr anymore?
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If all the requested features will be implemented who needs madvr anymore?
Maybe for madvr NGU.
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If all the requested features will be implemented who needs madvr anymore?
I think the aim is to have:
1) A great cross platform Renderer,
2) with the key features, and
3) without needed to delve into '00's of options and settings.
That said, for a perfectionist that wants to tweak parameters to get the very best possible image for their particular setup...madVR will still be available.
These days, I want something that "just works" and looks great = JRVR
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I think the aim is to have:
1) A great cross platform Renderer,
2) with the key features, and
3) without needed to delve into '00's of options and settings.
Yes! And efficient, so it runs on low end machines if possible.
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Yes! And efficient, so it runs on low end machines if possible.
Exactly. I don’t want to buy as gpu just to use madvr. I hope the quality is almost as good as madvr. If that’s the case you got another customer.
Like I said before. For me the most important feature will be
HDR Dynamic tonemapping (because my projector is capable of displaying 4K but not hdr)
A good upscale from FullHd to 4K.
And this with a gpu less than a 1070 gtx or a AMD if it’s any good.
What would be nice to have is FI. But this is not to important to me.
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Hello all,
I just got JRiver 28 and will straight up begin using Red October JRVR (preview), coming from Red October HQ, but never having tweaked it.
Any settings I should change or just let it do its thing ?
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I'm also rooting for JRVR to succeed in a big way. My HTPC is currently dead and sitting in a corner. There are MANY issues with rebuilding it. What I'm seriously considering instead is building some low cost linux machines for not just my living room but also my bedroom and use JRVR to watch the content from my NAS in any room. This will include tone mapping to SDR for my plasma in the bedroom, to watching HDR content on my OLED in the living room.
One feature I would absolutely LOVE, LOVE LOVE to have. I want to output HDR to my OLED. I would LOVE to tone map all that HDR content to 870 nits. I don't need all the wonderful options that madvr has for custom curves and all that. Something similar to what the Panasonic UB820 does would be more than sufficient for me. What this does is puts my OLED into its "best" tone map curve for HDR. Even if we don't get to set a specific NIT level, I'd be content with it being set to 1000 nits and having a "OLED" option in the settings to set it to that. Maybe another one for "LCD" that does 3000 to 4000 nits for higher level displays. It would be a killer feature.
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Is the implemented tone mapping only for HDR > SDR ? Or do we have a way atm to output HDR to a HDR TV without setting OS HDR ?
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Not yet. Coming soon. The option is in the JRVR settings but it's not yet enabled. I'm sure it's on Hendrick's short list of things to add.
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Time to wait then :)
I'm having an issue with JRVR black levels. FWIW I'm running windows 11, OS HDR is off, desktop set to RGB full and 0-255 in madvr.
These are the screenshots from both JRVR and madvr on the same pluge pattern (JRVR left, madvr right) :
(https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/06//mini_21110611480326187317656298.png) (https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/06//21110611480326187317656298.png) (https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/06//mini_21110611480326187317656297.png) (https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/06//21110611480326187317656297.png)
Windows 11 thing or something to look into ?
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What is your display expecting? if it's expecting video black levels, you will have issues. Hendrick said JRVR is set to full by default. So in that respect it should work the same as madvr set to 0-255.
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Display set to match the source black level high I think (LG oled).
But these are screenshots, not photos from the TV, black levels from the display itself should not affect a screenshot (I think ?).
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It won't impact a screen shot but a screenshot is also fairly meaningless for this. What does it look like on the display?
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Relative of each other it shows the difference between the 2 results, and it's pretty obvious. Bar 17 with JRVR is as bright as bar 25 with madvr. Both have 16 completely black.
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I'm having an issue with JRVR black levels. FWIW I'm running windows 11, OS HDR is off, desktop set to RGB full and 0-255 in madvr.
These are the screenshots from both JRVR and madvr on the same pluge pattern (JRVR left, madvr right) :
(https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/06//mini_21110611480326187317656298.png) (https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/06//21110611480326187317656298.png) (https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/06//mini_21110611480326187317656297.png) (https://nsm09.casimages.com/img/2021/11/06//21110611480326187317656297.png)
Windows 11 thing or something to look into ?
Looks like some of the brightness boosting meant for HDR only slipped into SDR processing, that elevates the levels if the majority of the frame is this dark. Going to be fixed soon.
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Yes probably. I tried some BD SDR movie with a very dark scene and fast movement, artifacts were all over the place.
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Maybe it's a silly question but I use MadVR with the external 3DLUT calibration file I get with DisplayCal and it gives me excellent results.
Is it possible to be a future option on JRVR?
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Maybe it's a silly question but I use MadVR with the external 3DLUT calibration file I get with DisplayCal and it gives me excellent results.
Is it possible to be a future option on JRVR?
At some point perhaps, but before that we'll support ICC profiles for calibration, as thats a native feature we can easily leverage, which should cover a large set of use-cases already - and you can create those with DisplayCal as well.
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Everyone
This is a preview thread. Please don't expect to get detailed help from JRiver until we're further along. It will be at lease several more weeks.
We're very grateful for all the feedback, which has been mostly very positive. Keep it coming.
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Maybe it's a silly question but I use MadVR with the external 3DLUT calibration file I get with DisplayCal and it gives me excellent results.
Is it possible to be a future option on JRVR?
Curious - have you been able to use DisplayCal to calibrate your display running in HDR mode ?
I have tried the software on my desktop, but none of the monitors have HDR modes, so I did SDR only.
My projector in the home theater, on the other hand, an Optoma UHD65, does. So does the Samsung TV in the master bedroom. But AFAIK, the software that comes with my Spyder 5 Pro and i1 Studio devices won't do HDR. I tried DisplayCal on my desktop, again for SDR only. It worked, but was very slow, on the order of one hour of calibration per monitor per sensor. And I tried with 3 monitors and 3 sensors. I had a Spyder 3 Pro before, which has now died. As I recall, I found Spyder 5 Pro with its native software to give the best results for SDR content on monitors. i1 studio does great for paper calibrations, if you print photos. Spyder 5 Pro and DisplayCal don't handle papers.
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So far i'm very happy with this new renderer from JRiver. It hasn't taken me very long to get to a setting where the image is quite pleasing.
I'd be interested to know what new features are being worked out currently.
For Target Gamut/Gamma using Red October JRVR, if set to Auto, how does it determine which is best for the display? Does it look at the source material and just output the content in it's highest/best setting?
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PCs will usually output in one format and one format only, which is also what Displays then expect. Only if you know for a fact that your display expects something else should you change from Auto - which usually goes hand-in-hand with telling your Display/TV that another kind of signal is coming in.
Hence I will move those options into the advanced section as well, since the majority of cases you should just leave them.
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Thanks for your reply Hendrik,
I've just tried MC 28 using my projector and left all settings on default using Red October standard and it seems extremely dark. I had to jack up the color settings - brightness/contrast and saturation in order to get a good image. Was this to be expected?
PC levels have been set to 0-255 as required.
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Red October Standard uses Microsofts EVR renderer. Its largely dependent on your drivers, so I can't really answer why it does anything like that. If you need help setting it up, open a new topic. This is about Red October JRVR only :)
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Hi Hendrik,
I've now switched to Red October JRVR renderer and made some changes to my Nvidia CP - RGB 0-255 full and also reset my projector's brightness back to 100 ( it was set to 30 due to a previous setting)
Everything looks nice and bright including shadow detail, tested 1080p/4k files (Black Panther). Panning is smooth with no dropped frames on rtx 3070.
Settings:
Target Gamut: Auto
Target Gamma: Auto
Peak dynamic nits: 130
Scaling: Jinc
Projector:
native 1080p running on windows 10, desktop set to 23hz
Will be interested to see what other settings people are using for the JRVR renderer.
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Just finished watching "A quiet place" UHD.
Mostly it looked beautiful but a couple issues:
1. I have bitstream via hdmi turned on and sometimes the pass through does not work. Opening the mkv file again and the sound will detect correctly.
2. Every so often, it starts to stutter. Pausing the video and playing again fixes this.
I'm using bt2390 tone mapping but will try hable next. I will purchase a licence now. It's already easier to get a great picture than madvr right now with the exception of sharpness!
Thanks for your efforts and Keep up the good work!
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2. Every so often, it starts to stutter. Pausing the video and playing again fixes this.
There has been a lot of improvements to this over the last week which you should see in the next public release.
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There has been a lot of improvements to this over the last week which you should see in the next public release.
That's great to hear! Thanks for your work.
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That's great to hear! Thanks for your work.
It's all Hendrik's hard work! (I'm just testing)
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Kudos to Hendrik then!
Work is being done on 28.0.84
Where can I get build 83 please?
28.0.83
- Changed: Improved timeout in JRVR when detecting rendering glitches to allow a more graceful recovery.
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Not all versions hit the public board, but the good news is they are released regularly.
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Recent and Upcoming Changes
28.0.84 (Upcoming)
- Changed: JRVR will report the actual screen refresh rate to VideoClock for more accurate timing adjustments. (Windows Only)
- NEW: The Playback OSD is rendered natively with JRVR. (Windows Only)
Will I be able to choose where to place the playback OSD and the menu OSD?
Currently the OSD is in the black bar at the bottom and I would like it to be in the active area.
Thanks
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Where can I get build 83 please?
We usually release new builds to the public after a few days of testing, as long as we don't find any blocking issues. But we wanted to communicate upcoming changes to JRVR specifically a bit earlier then public availability to match the rapid development going on currently. You'll just have to be a bit more patient and it'll be available soon. :)
Will I be able to choose where to place the playback OSD and the menu OSD?
Currently the OSD is in the black bar at the bottom and I would like it to be in the active area.
Media Center positions the OSD, not JRVR, without really being aware where there is video content. It might be changed in the future, but for now the position or behavior won't change from before, it'll just be rendered directly onto the image instead of being an overlay that can disrupt playback (especially with HDR in fullscreen).
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Okay, I thought it depended on JRVR because with madvr this is possible.
Sin.
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Really great to see HDR10 passthrough, KUDOS!
Hopefully HDR10+ and Dolby Vision passthrough will follow soon....
I just would like to report a couple of bugs with subtitles when using JRVR HDR10 passthrough:
- the colour of the subtitles look somewhat pale, the colour you choose in the Subtitle Colour menu is not matching the colour displayed on screen, as if HDR was not enabled for them (with madVR they look fine)
- each time a subtitle is displayed there is 1 frame dropped
Thank you for checking these
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Hopefully HDR10+ and Dolby Vision passthrough will follow soon....
Not likely. There are no documented methods to do so.
- the colour of the subtitles look somewhat pale, the colour you choose in the Subtitle Colour menu is not matching the colour displayed on screen, as if HDR was not enabled for them (with madVR they look fine)
In the next build, subtitles and other overlays will target a bit of lower brightness, which should allow them to properly use their colors.
An interesting tidbit that I noticed when comparing to madVR - madVR does in fact not properly render the subtitles in HDR, it just uses the SDR subtitles and shows them with no further changes, which makes them extremely bright and over-saturated.
With JRVR the aim is that subtitles in SDR and HDR look about the same, at least in future builds, and not be overly bright and shiny like the somewhat broken behavior in madVR.
- each time a subtitle is displayed there is 1 frame dropped
This is likely a performance issue of some kind. Especially at 4K, rendering subtitles can be a bit ineffecient currently. We're aiming to improve that situation in the future.
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Not likely. There are no documented methods to do so.
In the next build, subtitles and other overlays will target a bit of lower brightness, which should allow them to properly use their colors.
An interesting tidbit that I noticed when comparing to madVR - madVR does in fact not properly render the subtitles in HDR, it just uses the SDR subtitles and shows them with no further changes, which makes them extremely bright and over-saturated.
With JRVR the aim is that subtitles in SDR and HDR look about the same, at least in future builds, and not be overly bright and shiny like the somewhat broken behavior in madVR.
This is likely a performance issue of some kind. Especially at 4K, rendering subtitles can be a bit ineffecient currently. We're aiming to improve that situation in the future.
Great news about making subtitles less bright, I've noticed this myself with madvr.
I'll be using an anamorphic lens with my scoped screen. Can subtitles be moved into the rendered picture if they are situated where the black bars are? I am able to do this with my zidoo media player quite easily.
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Thank you for coming back to me, appreciate it
Not likely. There are no documented methods to do so.
That's very unfortunate :'(
Maybe it is a dummy question but does/will JRVR's tone mapping feature support dynamic metadata in the HDR10+ and Dolby Vision streams? That might help...
In the next build, subtitles and other overlays will target a bit of lower brightness, which should allow them to properly use their colors.
An interesting tidbit that I noticed when comparing to madVR - madVR does in fact not properly render the subtitles in HDR, it just uses the SDR subtitles and shows them with no further changes, which makes them extremely bright and over-saturated.
With JRVR the aim is that subtitles in SDR and HDR look about the same, at least in future builds, and not be overly bright and shiny like the somewhat broken behavior in madVR.
Sounds great, looking forward to it! :)
This is likely a performance issue of some kind. Especially at 4K, rendering subtitles can be a bit ineffecient currently. We're aiming to improve that situation in the future.
I have an RTX2060 and there is no such performance issue with madVR
Were you referring to a performance issue with JRVR itself?
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I'll be using an anamorphic lens with my scoped screen. Can subtitles be moved into the rendered picture if they are situated where the black bars are? I am able to do this with my zidoo media player quite easily.
For text subtitles there are some movement controls, but its not very fancy yet.
Its an area we plan to look into in the future to support moving into black bars, or out of, depending on the use-cases.
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I'm loving the development of this feature, especially as madVR seems more like a dead product with each passing month. One thing though...is there *any* chance of adding in the 3D features that Red October HQ has w/ madVR? I have an LG passive 3D TV and still often enjoy MKV3Ds on it. Though toggling between HQ and JRVR isn't the end of the world. (Is there a way to automate that based on file extension?)
Cheers,
-Doug
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Yes, but by either container or codec, not extension. Go to Tools > Options > Video > Video Mode > Advanced > Custom > Custom Video Mode Settings > Add a rule > Select your filter type and then enter the codec or container.
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3D is not currently planned, sorry. Its such a special case in handling the video, and support in TVs and from graphics vendors is shrinking.
As for switch between JRVR and ROHQ, you can set up ZoneSwitch to do that, or use a custom video mode which lets you switch between renderers as datdude suggested above. Of course either method relies on your files being named consistently.
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3D is not currently planned, sorry. Its such a special case in handling the video, and support in TVs and from graphics vendors is shrinking.
As for switch between JRVR and ROHQ, you can set up ZoneSwitch to do that, or use a custom video mode which lets you switch between renderers as datdude suggested above. Of course either method relies on your files being named consistently.
Yep, that did the trick. MKV3D is the same container as MKV so I couldn't use the video options method, but ZoneSwitch worked like a charm!
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FWIW, I've now tested JRVR on 5 different setups (all running Windows 11 with HDR set to be permanently on). The results are excellent, even breathing new life into low end iGPU. My summary is as follows:
- Intel NUC7i5 (Iris Plus 640) to a LG OLED TV: When using HDR Passthrough, this setup can play up to and including UHD HDR 59.94fps material without dropping frames. It does not have the grunt for tonemapping.
- Intel NUC8i5 (Iris Plus 655) to a Epson TW9300 PJ: Same as the above, though the limitations on the Epson only having a 10ghz chipset mean all sorts of mucking around getting the best combination of settings (MC, Windows, Drivers) to work well. In the end I'm sending all material as 1080p HDR and it is (finally) working well (see notes)
- 1660Ti to a Sony OLED TV: No issues to report at all, works with Passthrough and Tonemapping. I prefer Passthrough on this setup.
- 1660Ti to a JVC X7500 PJ: No issues to report at all, works with Passthrough and Tonemapping. I'm yet to decide if I prefer Tonemapping or Passthrough on this setup.
- 3090 to a Philips HDR1,000 Certified Monitor: No issues to report at all, works with Passthrough and Tonemapping. I prefer Passthrough on this setup.
Notes:
- Passthrough vs Tone mapping: I personally prefer HDR Passthrough on HDR Displays with relatively high nits. The image looks great. I'm yet to decide with my JVC projector if I'll tonemap or passthrough as I need to spend a lot more time with all the various combinations. If you have an SDR Display then tone mapping is for you.
- Display Rate Change Delay: If you are getting weird Audio or Video issues, check your settings in "Options--> Video--> Display Settings--> Wait after change (use if display changes slowly)" I've always found that PJs change slowly and hence the HDMI chain takes some time to correctly re-establish itself / re advertise it's EDID. On my Epson PJ I had to raise this to 10secs else the Audio would only be 2ch (not 7.1).
- Intel iGPU weirdness: Another issue that became apparent on the Epson PJ setup with its 10GBit HDMI chip, is the way the Intel driver works. It's a long story but the thread is here (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,131301.0.html) outlining the issues and fix if you happen to fall into the camp of using older devices that don't fully support all UHD frame rates on an Intel iGPU setup.
- Video Clock: If your not using VideoClock then I'd really suggest you give it a go (Options--> Video--> General Video Settings). You should get no frame drops or repeats as it resamples the audio to keep it in sync with the video (rather than the other way around).... well you will get a few at the very beginning of the playback but after that it is pretty much rock solid. The only downside is that you can not use Bitstreaming, so for those with a speaker system above 7.1 that want Atmos etc then bit streaming is still for you (as decoding is limited to a max of 7.1).
In summary, Hendrik has done a terrific job with JRVR. Of all the video renderers I've played with, JRVR not only gives great HDR playback but does so on the widest range of HW that I've seen.... even low end iGPU that till now was just not possible. For those with dedicated GPU's you can pick and choose between passthrough and tone mapping depending on your what looks best on your display device (and there is plenty of Head Room for extra processing goodies I'm sure Hendrik has in mind). For those with an iGPU, then HDR Passthrough is very very efficient and will be your go to.
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Thanks again, Nathan! Amazing job of both testing and reporting.
I think we've reached the point where we can drop the "preview" label. JRVR works.
Congratulations and thanks to Hendrik for this impressive work.
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I totally agree. It has come a long way in a short time. Really impressive work!
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- Video Clock: If your not using VideoClock then I'd really suggest you give it a go (Options--> Video--> General Video Settings). You should get no frame drops or repeats as it resamples the audio to keep it in sync with the video (rather than the other way around).... well you will get a few at the very beginning of the playback but after that it is pretty much rock solid. The only downside is that you can not use Bitstreaming, so for those with a speaker system above 7.1 that want Atmos etc then bit streaming is still for you (as decoding is limited to a max of 7.1).
In summary, Hendrik has done a terrific job with JRVR. Of all the video renderers I've played with, JRVR not only gives great HDR playback but does so on the widest range of HW that I've seen.... even low end iGPU that till now was just not possible. For those with dedicated GPU's you can pick and choose between passthrough and tone mapping depending on your what looks best on your display device (and there is plenty of Head Room for extra processing goodies I'm sure Hendrik has in mind). For those with an iGPU, then HDR Passthrough is very very efficient and will be your go to.
I wish and prey that someone would be able to make a video clock that will play Atmos without bitstreaming. I hate to bitstream to run my atmos as I just cant stand looking at all this dropped frames! PCM and video clock is an amazing thing especially on a 145" screen and my JVC NX9. Maybe one day someone will make a video clock to work with bitstream....
Do you think JRVR is a good as madvr with a 1080Ti card using NGU sharp? I use NGU sharp as with a very large screen I want the image to pop, anything less than NGU sharp just looks to soft on massive scope screens. I would move across to JRVR if I though it could match NGU sharp.
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The only way I'm aware of to pull that off is to use MAT 2.0 like the Apple TV does. LPCM does not have the metadata required for ATMOS. What MAT 2.0 does is decode it to LPCM but then adds the metadata for ATMOS to it. But I don't believe the MAT 2.0 standard is available.
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I don't know that anyone has tried but, I guess it would be possible to add/remove packets from a bitstream.....
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No, it's not. Not without breaking it.
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Do you think JRVR is a good as madvr with a 1080Ti card using NGU sharp? I use NGU sharp as with a very large screen I want the image to pop, anything less than NGU sharp just looks to soft on massive scope screens. I would move across to JRVR if I though it could match NGU sharp.
You can always try JRVR and see how it looks, but there is no NGU Sharp ... at this stage. Hendrik has said that once the basics are dialed in he would look at other options. The good thing with JRVR is there is plenty of performance head room available for additional options.
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You can always try JRVR and see how it looks, but there is not NGU Sharp ... at this stage. Hendrik has said that once the basics are dialed in he would look at other options. The good thing with JRVR is there is plenty of performance head room available for additional options.
Yes I will try it when the development is finished but I think I need the latest version to do so dont I?
I have no problem buying the new version but dont want to stop the one Im on as I have so many settings in there that I dont want to transfer. I only use JR for my home cinema, no music or any of the other features. I must admit I just LOVE JR, its amazing!!!!
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Yup, you will need the latest version. I'm not sure how "old" your MC version is, but the good news the upgrade will copy across all your settings + leave the "old" version in place (which you can later remove when you are happy).
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Yup, you will need the latest version. I'm not sure how "old" your MC version is, but the good news the upgrade will copy across all your settings + leave the "old" version in place (which you can later remove when you are happy).
Thanks so much I better buy it then :)
Were there Black Friday specials?
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No idea on any BF sales! The upgrade will copy the MC settings... but I'm not sure about any madVR settings you may have (you may need to manually copy the settings file from your old setup to new)... others may know better on this.
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Thanks so much I better buy it then :)
Were there Black Friday specials?
if you own a previous version, you can use it to upgrade at a discount. Please read this:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129290.0.html
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FYI - One of my 1660Ti's was dropping frames with high frame rate HDR UHD material (the red boxs). The "fix" for this was to:
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Vertical Sync --> On
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Power Management Mode --> Prefer Maximum Performance
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That's always the fix for nVidia cards and video rendering. But it's a good thing to note.
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I think we've reached the point where we can drop the "preview" label. JRVR works.
You're right. After so many years I finally have a machine that just turn it on, choose the movie (DVD, BD, UHD) and everything works.
No more freezes, slowdowns, crashes etc. etc.
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Thanks again, Nathan! Amazing job of both testing and reporting.
I think we've reached the point where we can drop the "preview" label. JRVR works.
Congratulations and thanks to Hendrik for this impressive work.
I was getting periodic stuttering on my 1080Ti. However, after updating drivers to 496.xx, JRVR works really well. It also operates below the threshold needed to make my GPU fan spin up loudly. Very happy with this for personal use at least. Excellent work guys.
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After numerous experiments with various modes and settings, I've switched to JRVR in version 28.0.87, with Jinc scaling and HDR10 passthrough. Now, my Win11 system looks very good on my LG OLED, whether the source material is SD, HD, UHD+HDR... Thanks for the great work developing this render option!
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Another tip that will help for those with "odd" Audio problems (MC complaining it can't start the Audio, or you are Missing Audio on some channels). If you are using the Display Settings Automatic Change Feature to match your display's refresh rate to that of the content being played, you may need to set a value to "Wait after change". The issue is some displays (especially PJ's) can take some seconds on a display rate change for HDMI Audio to be correctly re-established, and you want playback to be delayed till that has occurred. On some of my setups I don't need any value set, on others (like one of my PJ's) it is now up to 10sec.
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Another tip that will help for those with "odd" Audio problems (MC complaining it can't start the Audio, or you are Missing Audio on some channels). If you are using the Display Settings Automatic Change Feature to match your display's refresh rate to that of the content being played, you may need to set a value to "Wait after change". The issue is some displays (especially PJ's) can take some seconds on a display rate change for HDMI Audio to be correctly re-established, and you want playback to be delayed till that has occurred. On some of my setups I don't need any value set, on others (like one of my PJ's) it is now up to 10sec.
I think I may have this issue with my PJ. Sometimes I don't get any sound and will have to close JR and re-open the file to get audio working via hdmi bitstreaming. Will give this a try and report back.
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If I use bitstreaming I get from time to time a very loud screech in the startup of some films, PCM its always clean.
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(https://i.ibb.co/vvFwmdg/gamma-processing.png) (https://ibb.co/vvFwmdg)
According to what is written here, it seems that it is already possible to load an ICC or 3dlut profile: did I get it wrong?
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No, those options are not available yet. But at least ICC should be coming soon-ish.
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May I ask what is the purpose of the "Enable 10 bit output for SDR videos" option?
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May I ask what is the purpose of the "Enable 10 bit output for SDR videos" option?
More bits is more better. :)
10-bit carries more details then the default 8-bit. But its only meaningful if your display can actually receive and properly process 10-bit signals, and can be detrimental if turned on when your display is not capable of this, hence it being an advanced option.
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More bits is more better. :)
10-bit carries more details then the default 8-bit. But its only meaningful if your display can actually receive and properly process 10-bit signals, and can be detrimental if turned on when your display is not capable of this, hence it being an advanced option.
Thanks Hendrick, I get the bit depth issue. My ignorance is related to HDR in that I'm just starting to play with it. I guess my question is what is the setting meant to actually do? Is it supposed to turn on OS HDR for an SDR source? When I've set it I can't tell that anything changes. I'm running Radeon Vega 11 graphics set at 10 bit through a Denon 4400 to an LG OLED B7. When I play a sample HDR file OS HDR gets turned on but I can't see anything happening with an SDR source. Please forgive if a stupid question.
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No, its not supposed to be noticeable. To make use of it, you would have to have your graphics card set to output 10-bit (or higher), and when 10-bit output is on and you go fullscreen, it would automatically make use of it without any notice.
You might be able to see it by comparing 10-bit gradient images, but at 8-bit we use high quality dithering, so it might only show up in a slight reduction in noise.
The reason its an option is that we don't know if your graphics card is set to output 10-bit, or if your screen will properly accept and process it. Until we can figure that out (which might be never), it has to be an option.
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...
The reason its an option is that we don't know if your graphics card is set to output 10-bit, or if your screen will properly accept and process it. Until we can figure that out (which might be never), it has to be an option.
Got it, thanks for clearing it up for me.
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No, its not supposed to be noticeable. To make use of it, you would have to have your graphics card set to output 10-bit (or higher), and when 10-bit output is on and you go fullscreen, it would automatically make use of it without any notice.
You might be able to see it by comparing 10-bit gradient images, but at 8-bit we use high quality dithering, so it might only show up in a slight reduction in noise.
The reason its an option is that we don't know if your graphics card is set to output 10-bit, or if your screen will properly accept and process it. Until we can figure that out (which might be never), it has to be an option.
For those of us who have an HDMI 2.0 graphics card drivers set to output 10-bit or 12-bit to the display, this is limited to lower framerates. 50/60 fps and the graphics card outputs 8 bit. 24/25 fps and the video driver changes back to 10-bit or 12-bit. I have MadVR configured with profile rules so that fps determines whether it outputs 8-bit or 10-bit to the video driver to match the HDMI 2.0 constraints. This way I get 10 bit from MadVR all the way to the display for SDR 24/25 fps sources. Will JRVR have something similar?
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Nice summary of power usage by syndromeofdawn:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130954.msg910945.html#msg910945
Thanks!
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I may be being silly, but i am playing some 4k hdr bluray rips (Justice league snyder cut, lord of the rings) with HDR passthrough turned on, and when I press CTRL+J the summary shows that the input is uhd and the output is 1920x1080. I have my display settings set to uhd@24hz for 24 fps video.
My signal path is:
Nvidia 3070 HDMI (desktop set to uhd, with 10bit output turned on in nvidia control panel) > Denon 2700 (passthrough mode) > Sony 9000f 4K HDR TV (set to cinema pro preset)
If I press "info" on my Denon it says that the input is UHD Bt.2020 and so is the output it is sending to the TV. The TV also reports its getting a HDR signal.
So is JRVR summary wrong possibly?
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The OSD is likely not wrong. One reason for that happening is if the OS is scaling MC, instead of MC being rendered at full resolution. This might happen if you have multiple displays connected, and only one is UHD - you can potentially resolve that by making the UHD one the primary display. Or it can happen if you use display settings to change resolution while MC is already running, we would recommend to only change refresh rate.
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I have my display settings set to uhd@24hz for 24 fps video.
I only have a few true 24fps videos (from some smaller EU mastering houses), most are 23.976fps.
Do you have display setting for Film (23.976) set to 3840 x 2160 - 32 Bit @ 23 Hz ?
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Thanks for the replies.
I have tried making the TV the primary display and turning scaling to 100% and turning on the HDR output in windows display settings. Now i get UHD output but a garbled ghosted image on the screen. I will try switching out the cables.
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I just noticed that using JRVR my TV remains in 60Hz all the time, despite display settings configured.
Probably because my movies do not have the FPS tag.
Would it be possible for JRVR to detect the framerate like madvr does, and trigger auto switching without manually tagging the files ?
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Would it be possible for JRVR to detect the framerate like madvr does, and trigger auto switching without manually tagging the files ?
The entire concept of switching is independent of the video renderer in MC, as it happens before the video is even opened, so we have to rely on the database to have an FPS value. This likely will not change, as switching the mode while playback is starting up is error-prone, which is the reason we do it before even touching the file.
If this is live TV, those stations typically have a consistent frame rate through their entire lifetime (eg. EU TV should always be 25 or 50, US TV always 30 or 60), so they could be tagged with that. If its recorded TV, those files should ideally also be tagged. Either of those would probably be good to ask Yaobing on, maybe make a new thread on the TV forums. In any other case, equally, tagging should generally be possible.
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It sounds odd that you don't have FPS values. The only ones I don't get FPS values for when importing are those stored as an ISO (recorded TV shows all have their FPS populated). You could try selecting some and Right Click --> update Library from Tags that will do a reanalysis.
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It seems some of my ripped BD didn't have the tag, but most of them have it.
I'll have to chase the outliers then.
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Unfortunately the frame drop is still there when displaying subtitles, are there any plans to fix this issue please?
Thank you
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Unfortunately the frame drop is still there when displaying subtitles, are there any plans to fix this issue please?
As I already confirmed the last time, yes there are plans, but its a bigger change and won't happen very soon.
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One feature I'd like to see added from madvr is the frame blending 'motion smoothing' feature: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/MadVR_Expert_Guide#:~:text=Smooth%20Motion%20is%20a%20recently,TVs%2C%20or%20reduce%2024p%20judder.
While I get that most would keep this off and instead change the display to match the frame rate, I find that it looks great when running movies at 60hz since you don't get the stutter from fast response OLEDs at 24hz. It does look a little softer due to the blending, but I'd trade that for vibrating stutter or for weird motion interpolation artifacts. It kind of reminds me of what movies looked like on plasma, before instant response OLEDs.
Plus, because it doesn't have to switch the display and stays at 60hz my AVR displays the picture sooner and doesn't show the 'no signal' message at start of playback or after stopping.
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Its not a primary feature currently planned, but maybe something we can do in the future.
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I really like the new scaling features introduced in 28.0.92 but it raises the question of tuning the renderer for particular video types. This can be done in madVR by using the 'profiles' feature.
For example at the moment I can use FSRCNNX16 for 1080p23 -> 2160p23 (which looks fantastic) with my lowly GTX1060OC card but it needs to drop back to RAVU for 576i/1080i/720p50 content.
Any chance of implementing per zone settings for JRVR?
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Any chance of implementing per zone settings for JRVR?
It may already work. Video settings can be different for each zone.
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It may already work. Video settings can be different for each zone.
You can only change the video render type at the moment, eg madVR in one zone, JRVR in another. The settings for JRVR are the same for any zone it is active in.
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Any chance of implementing per zone settings for JRVR?
I've purposefully not chosen zones to do this, because zones do not have all the required information, or the ability to switch on the fly (and are a big all-or-nothing approach, which isn't always ideal).
There will likely be some kind of profile system to do such per-content tuning in the future, but we'll need to figure out how that will look and remain simple to use.
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I only use JRiver to watch movies, but today I wanted to try watching TV again.
I have found that it is not possible to use JRVR: does something have to be configured? Still not expected?
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TV should work with JRVR as far as I know. Best to inquire with Yaobing on the TV forums if its not working, I suppose.
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FYI - JRVR is working in TV but Ctrl+J does not
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Hi,
I've been using JRVR for a couple of weeks now and I'm very pleased with it, thank you. An issue I've noticed with the Superres function is that I get momentary sound cut-outs on a frequent, periodic basis. This goes away if I remove the function. I'm running on a 2060 NUC. I've tried to establish the pattern of occurrence but I can't be definite. It seems to happen at the same part of the movie each time but I can't be definitive about that. I also can't really say if a video glitch also happens at the same time, which is possible but the sound cut-out is the noticeable effect.
Just looking for any comments, pointers, observations on this. Nobody else seems to be having this so I suspect it's only specific to my setup. I'm just leaving it off for now.
(periodic =- every 10-40 seconds)
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Sounds like you might be running into performance issues. If you use VideoClock and the rendering is too slow, it can impact the audio, as the VideoClock information gets skewed.
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Sounds like you might be running into performance issues. If you use VideoClock and the rendering is too slow, it can impact the audio, as the VideoClock information gets skewed.
I tried it with Videoclock mainly off as I thought it might be an issue. GPU runs at about 25% during playback.
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Sounds like you might be running into performance issues. If you use VideoClock and the rendering is too slow, it can impact the audio, as the VideoClock information gets skewed.
Should Superres evn be doing anything if I'm playing a 4k video to a 4k display? Isn't it just for upscaling?
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Should Superres evn be doing anything if I'm playing a 4k video to a 4k display? Isn't it just for upscaling?
Yes, its only for upscaling. It won't be active at all then, no matter the option.
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Yes, its only for upscaling. It won't be active at all then, no matter the option.
Which makes it weird that it causes any glitches at all.
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Any thoughts on SDR to HDR tonemapping?
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I may be being silly, but i am playing some 4k hdr bluray rips (Justice league snyder cut, lord of the rings) with HDR passthrough turned on, and when I press CTRL+J the summary shows that the input is uhd and the output is 1920x1080. I have my display settings set to uhd@24hz for 24 fps video.
My signal path is:
Nvidia 3070 HDMI (desktop set to uhd, with 10bit output turned on in nvidia control panel) > Denon 2700 (passthrough mode) > Sony 9000f 4K HDR TV (set to cinema pro preset)
If I press "info" on my Denon it says that the input is UHD Bt.2020 and so is the output it is sending to the TV. The TV also reports its getting a HDR signal.
So is JRVR summary wrong possibly?
To cap this post, I fixed most of my issues by buying a new DP1.4>HDMI2 cable. I also changed the TV to being the main display and i was able to get good UHD@24hz bt.2020 output.
jmone did mention changing the output to 23fps but that didnt work in JRVR for me. When i set it to output UHD 23fps for 23.97 source material, MC would actually output at UHD@60hz.
Now I do notice that many of my movies have some pretty bad compression/macroblocking issues. I guess that madVR was smoothing a lot of that out for me before. I have turned on the "smooth compression artifacts" feature on my tv for now.
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Very excited to see this new renderer, madVR has stopped working reliably on my HTPC for me since I moved to the 3090 and as a result I've stopped using the HTPC as a source, given that sadly madshi doens't have the time to support madVR currently.
I have a suggestion though, as it would clearly take quite a bit of time before JRVR can catch up with some of the features that are needed when integrating into a home cinema (black bar detection, 3D LUTs calibration, sending BT2020 flag with nVidia, profiles, etc).
Would it be possible to get a "source direct" mode in JRVR that would send the least processed version of the content? Unlikely you can send 4:2:0 for all content at all frame rates due to drivers limitations, but could you try to send 4:2:2 and the native resolution, SDR or HDR passthrough, without any processing/upscaling?
That way those of us with an external video processor (Lumagen Radiance, madVR Envy) could use the HTPC as a source and do all the processing/calibration using the external VP?
The main difficulty you're going to hit re calibration is finding a way to get calibration software to support your own pattern generation (similar to madTPG). However, if you could use the same 3D LUT format (eecolor), that would definitely help as LUTs generated with madVR or Envy could be used with JRVR.
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Just would like to inquire if anybody has any experience running JRVR 4K HDR passthrough using an AMD Ryzen 5 5600G or Ryzen 7 5700G? (with no additional GPU)
Would these processors be adequate enough to do that?
Many thanks
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Would it be possible to get a "source direct" mode in JRVR that would send the least processed version of the content? Unlikely you can send 4:2:0 for all content at all frame rates due to drivers limitations, but could you try to send 4:2:2 and the native resolution, SDR or HDR passthrough, without any processing/upscaling?
PCs are not capable of that. Its all RGB all the time.
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Just would like to inquire if anybody has any experience running JRVR 4K HDR passthrough using an AMD Ryzen 5 5600G or Ryzen 7 5700G? (with no additional GPU)
Would these processors be adequate enough to do that?
Many thanks
This thread on testing might give you a better idea: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130905.msg907418.html#msg907418
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Very excited to see this new renderer, madVR has stopped working reliably on my HTPC for me since I moved to the 3090 and as a result I've stopped using the HTPC as a source, given that sadly madshi doens't have the time to support madVR currently.
I have a suggestion though, as it would clearly take quite a bit of time before JRVR can catch up with some of the features that are needed when integrating into a home cinema (black bar detection, 3D LUTs calibration, sending BT2020 flag with nVidia, profiles, etc).
Would it be possible to get a "source direct" mode in JRVR that would send the least processed version of the content? Unlikely you can send 4:2:0 for all content at all frame rates due to drivers limitations, but could you try to send 4:2:2 and the native resolution, SDR or HDR passthrough, without any processing/upscaling?
That way those of us with an external video processor (Lumagen Radiance, madVR Envy) could use the HTPC as a source and do all the processing/calibration using the external VP?
The main difficulty you're going to hit re calibration is finding a way to get calibration software to support your own pattern generation (similar to madTPG). However, if you could use the same 3D LUT format (eecolor), that would definitely help as LUTs generated with madVR or Envy could be used with JRVR.
Have you tried JRVR yet?
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PCs are not capable of that. Its all RGB all the time.
Well, last time I looked I could select YCC 4:2:2 in my nVidia driver...
Anyway, if source direct isn't possible, I hope you're going to catch up quickly re all the missing features, because currently JRVR isn't an option for home cinema integration, there are too many features missing from madVR.
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Have you tried JRVR yet?
No because there are too many missing features for my needs, but I hope I'll be able to at some point. I'll give it a try as soon as I find the time, I have only recently upgraded to MC28 as I had no time to spend on HC duties recently because of work overload...
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Well, last time I looked I could select YCC 4:2:2 in my nVidia driver...
Anyway, if source direct isn't possible, I hope you're going to catch up quickly re all the missing features, because currently JRVR isn't an option for home cinema integration, there are too many features missing from madVR.
We have no plans to rebuild madVR with all its features. We're aiming at high quality, cross platform, ease of use, and efficiency (works on more computers).
Did you try it?
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There isn't much point trying it for the sort of setup manni is referring to because it is missing too many features that are part of the required feature set. They aren't nice to haves.
A number of them are listed in the relevant thread https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,131214.0.html
I also hope you take the steps required to make it useable in those situations
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As for CIH/CIW setups, I have said this before, but we already support all "zoom control" features of madVR required for this, except automatic black bar detection, which is not something currently planned.
That includes cropping, of black bars or otherwise, aspect ratio overrides if needed, and image size settings.
Unfortunately everyone that has asked for this before has not come back with actual test results if this functionality works for them - assuming they set up the black-bar cropping on a per-movie basis - which could be automated later by an offline process (ie. analysing the video and storing in the database, and not doing it at runtime which is extremely performance heavy as madVR does it on the CPU, preventing use of optimized hardware decoding)
Otherwise, features for niche setups will come last, since they benefit the least people. And not every niche feature will be re-created or niche use-case covered.
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As for CIH/CIW setups, I have said this before, but we already support all "zoom control" features of madVR required for this, except automatic black bar detection, which is not something currently planned.
That includes cropping, of black bars or otherwise, aspect ratio overrides if needed, and image size settings.
I was under the impression the custom stretch part was not supported
feedback in https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130905.msg911868.html#msg911868
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Just would like to report some good news: subtitle frame dropping seems to be resolved, at least it no longer happens at my end
Thank you for that, much appreciated!
One question came up in the meantime: I can see in the OSD (when clicking CTRL+J) that the Input always says 'Levels limited/TV' - is this something that can be changed to Full? I guess that should be the desirable setting
Thank you
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AFAIK, the Input is showing the details of the Video itself, so for commercially mastered content it will normally be TV/Limited. If you want to set "Full" for the output then change that in your video card settings.
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Yes, I understand that but I also did the following:
- installed LAV filters
- set up Custom Video Mode in JRiver to use LAV Video Decoder
- set LAV to output Full (0-255)
...and still in JRVR OSD I can see Limited/TV
(my RTX2060 is configured to output Full)
Is that because the input file (any 4K HDR movies I tried) is indeed Limited and even if I set LAV and the nVidia driver to output Full it won't happen or is it something else?
Thank you
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Yes, JRVR "Input" information is just reporting the specs of the file being played. Changing filter settings will not alter this. As a test I created a Video in Davinci Resolve using "Full" (0-255) instead of a std (16-235) colour range and when playing it back in JRVR it is reported as "Full / PC" instead of "Limited / TV" (see pic). I also don't know of any commercially authored videos that uses "Full".
(at this stage) The JRVR OSD simply does not show (and there are no JRVR Settings) on what colour range is being used during rendering and output. The Output section shows the format being sent to the Graphics Driver (eg RGB10A2 which is 10 bits per red, green and blue. 2 bits of alpha) the and that it is HDR10 BT.2020, but nothing specifying the colour range directly. I do see under "Performance" there is a "colorspace conversion" entry but Hendrik would need to advise on further details.
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jmone is right, the "Input" section describes the video you are playing, it should not be impacted by any settings.
Output is always full range RGB, since limited range is more of a hack and you are lying to the graphics driver etc when you use it. Its also extremely rarely useful, so I decided to not put in an option for now.
"colorspace conversion" would be for BT.2020 to BT.709 or similar conversions, or the other way around, which in your screenshot only applies to the overlay, as all overlays are BT.709 SDR RGB, which in your case needs to be converted to BT.2020 and tone-mapped to HDR10.
In this case, the main video doesn't get converted, the only thing happening to it is YCbCr -> RGB, which is the "color decoding, color encoding" line, which reads the YCbCr (decoding) and writes it out as RGB (encoding).
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Thanks Hendrik, makes sense. So if I understand correctly,
- JRVR does all it processing as RGB "Full" and will output as such to the Graphic Driver
- The Graphics Driver then (depending on it's settings) will output either Full or Limited to the Display
- Modern Displays "should" read the stream as either Full or Limited as appropriate
I'm guessing that if the Display supports "Full" then having the Graphic Driver set to "Full" would be the most appropriate setup. If the Display only supports "Limited" then setting the Graphics driver to "Limited" would be the most appropriate?
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I am not sure of the full implications of converting limited rgb to full rgb in this environment, but limited rgb is used for broadcast TV and for DVDs and Blurays, so it is, in fact, pretty commonly used. It is not typically used for computer monitors, but it is in TV and movies, prior to 4K. However, the conventional wisdom is that playing a limited rgb movie on a full rgb display caused problems with the blacks.
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It's not quite that simple, unfortunately. GPU drivers on a PC are assuming everything sent to it is full rgb. So if you send it limited rgb and then tell it to send limited rgb it'll in fact double convert it which will annihilate blacks. These conversions, depending on how they're dithered, will lose precision, as well. So it's a matter of where you trust those conversions to be done. You CERTAINLY don't want it done twice. Sending a full rgb signal across the whole chain, where the display is expecting it and can process it correctly, is the best option. However, a lot of consumer devices don't work so well at full. They internally convert it to limited and at least in the case of LG OLEDS does so not especially well, causing banding issues. In these cases, you send full rgb to the driver, allow it to convert to limited, and then the display receives it as expected. In this case you only convert it once in theory and if your GPU driver is doing its job correctly, it's dithering it so you don't lose much precision in the conversion.
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Yes, interaction between computer and TV/Movie graphics is hardy seamless. Both NVidea and Intel have struggled with getting these conversions right all the time. Now graphics cards, monitors and TVs have options to support the various modes, althought TV manufacturers sometimes make it harder by not using the correct terms, so limited rgb becomes simply low, for example. And graphics cards should be able to take in limited rgb and output limited rgb. But all of this needs to just happen correctly and the user needs to be shielded from the details. It is getting closer but is not there yet.
My main point was that limited rgb is a significant player in non-computer video and has to be treated correctly by the whole chain, as you point out in detail.
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Yea, this issue has been a pervasive problem all HTPC users have to deal with. I think that's why the popularity of "simple" streaming devices like the AppleTV and SHIELD is rising. But even there, same kinds of issues believe it or not. I think Hendrick's logic for not including a limited option is good. It will prevent the double conversion issue. As you said, the driver SHOULD be able to accept limited and output limited but that's not the current reality for any driver that I'm aware of. Windows itself uses rgb full which is why the drivers are expecting it. It would be really, REALLY nice to be able to keep the whole chain in limited so that no conversions are taking place but sadly that's not an option for us. At least not now. It took me quite a while to wrap my head around this whole thing. I suspect by keeping everything more simple, Hendrick is avoiding a lot of the discussions about limited->full->limited and all that. I don't blame him. :) Trust the gpu driver. It's your only hope. LOL :D
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Is anyobody else seeing stuttery playback? I get maybe half an hour of good playback and then lots of stuttering. If i Pause and then press play again the stuttering will go away for a while. This happens with SD, HD, and 4K playback. With and without subtitles turned on.
I am using JRVR with the following settings:
Display settings (I would prefer to play HD at its native resolution but dont see a way to do that in MC. It seems you can only decide resolution based on frame rate):
23.97 fps > 2160p24
24fps fps > 2160p24
Hardware acceleration: enabled (tried both)
JRVR:
Output:
HDR10 passthrough: enabled
Enable OS HDR Support: enabled
Scaling:
Up Scaling: lanczos (tried all the options)
Downscaling: lanczos
Scale in sigmoidial light: enabled (tried both)
SuperRes: Enabled
Luma image scaling disabled
Chrome: use image scaling
Advanced:
Dithering: Blue noise
Ryzen 8 core 3600X and NVIDIA 3070
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23.97 fps > 2160p24
24fps fps > 2160p24
23.97 should be 2160p23.
Hardware acceleration: enabled (tried both)
JRVR:
Output:
HDR10 passthrough: enabled
Enable OS HDR Support: enabled
Scaling:
Up Scaling: lanczos (tried all the options)
Downscaling: lanczos
Scale in sigmoidial light: enabled (tried both)
SuperRes: Enabled
Luma image scaling disabled
Chrome: use image scaling
Advanced:
Dithering: Blue noise
Ryzen 8 core 3600X and NVIDIA 3070
Try disabling SuperRes until you get smooth playback. Also, try using a hardware scaler (bilinear or fastbicubic) and disabling HA decoding for testing just to rule out source material issues.
I get frame drops on some material, but I'm testing ULV chips. Your rig shouldn't be dropping frames. Could you post an screenshot of OSD while you are playing a problematic video?
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I agree that it should be 23.97 fps > 2160p24, + you may also want to try turning on Video Clock (but this only works if you are NOT bit streaming). Both these will stop occasional video drops/repeats but something else must be happening if you get a bunch of heavy stuttering after some point. The 3070 has heaps of power, but check in the nVidia Control Panel --> Manage 3D Settings --> that you have the following set --> https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130657.msg910638.html#msg910638
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Sometimes I got a lot of repeated frames. What I see is that VSYNC is not constant e.g. 44, 59, 120 etc.during playback.
Is this normal behaviour?
HW acceleration on/off does make no difference. Custom Display Mode on or custom=Desktop Seetings makes also no difference. GPU workload is <30 %.
HW is AMD 5700G with 16 GB DDR4 Memory.
Any Idea? (Video is playing in a window and not full screen)
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Thats usually the result of having some kind of variable refresh rate display, as VSYNC then just doesn't work. I recommend to turn that off for stable video playback.
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That's usually the result of having some kind of variable refresh rate display, as VSYNC then just doesn't work.
I did not found anything for my LG UW monitor to configure it. But if I configure MC Custom Display Settings: Explicitly set 3440x1440 - 32 bit @ 60 Hz instead of Desktop Settings it works! Lipsync is then also perfect. No Latency Issues.
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Option to JRVR to disable sharing the D3D11 device with the hardware decoder.
I tested (enabled and disabled) it on my Ultra Wide PC Monitor, AMD 5700G, 16 GB DDR4 Memory with my most demanding videos 29i BD, 50p BD and 25p BD and used Radeon Monitoring for CPU, GPU, VRAM and RAM usage. The difference are minor e.g. 458 MB/443 MB VRAM usage and should be in the error rate of monitoring. The number mentioned was that with the highest difference.
CPU was always <3%, GPU usage max 76% without any framedrops (Jinc, SuperRes Enhancement disabled - its too demanding for the iGPU).
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I agree that it should be 23.97 fps > 2160p24, + you may also want to try turning on Video Clock (but this only works if you are NOT bit streaming). Both these will stop occasional video drops/repeats but something else must be happening if you get a bunch of heavy stuttering after some point. The 3070 has heaps of power, but check in the nVidia Control Panel --> Manage 3D Settings --> that you have the following set --> https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130657.msg910638.html#msg910638
Thanks for the feedback. I checked my nvidia settings and they are already set that way.
I have also tried turning off super res and it didnt make a difference. Same with Hardware acceleration.
Also tried going down to bilinear scaling. no difference
Re: the 23 frame rate. Though NVIDIA control panel offers me a 23hz desktop refresh rate setting, Media Center only offers me a choice of 24fps for UHD resolution playback.
Finally I tried using WIN+P and using only second monitor (TV) instead of extend desktop to both monitors, and then instant smooth playback. This may have resolved my issues and be an acceptable workaround for me. I'll test a whole movie to confirm.
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Hi,
I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but it's not so much about testing.
I still have issues with 576i50 PAL- DVD content: the picture is always ripped. Please see attached a screenshot of „Eric Clapton in Concert“ from 1994 with the info screen.
I remember that with Madvr it was possible to add the suffix „video“ or „movie“ to the filename for interlacing on/off.
What should I set up JRVR?
Greetings
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You don't mention what version of MC you are using, but FYI the following was fixed in 28.0.98
4. Fixed: Hardware deinterlacing in JRVR was broken in 28.0.97.
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It was only broken in 28.0.97, which was beta only.
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I'm always using the newest stable. In this case 28.0.98 32Bit.... Hm
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Might be that the DVD is just flagged/encoded wrongly, so that it doesn't think its actually interlaced. We don't currently offer the ability to override that with those name tags or similar.
You could try RO Standard to see if it shows similar pattern.
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Is this a JRVR bug or an issue with my system:
With JRVR enabled, I'm unable to "Screen grab to a file ..."
With Red October HQ enabled, this function works fine.
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I posted a user test with AMD Ryzen 7 5600G UW PC-Monitor, 4K OLED using JRVR compared to i3+GTX960 4K OLED (modified my old thread):
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,131639.msg912977.html#msg912977 (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,131639.msg912977.html#msg912977)
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Really great to see HDR10 passthrough, KUDOS!
Hopefully HDR10+ and Dolby Vision passthrough will follow soon....
I just would like to report a couple of bugs with subtitles when using JRVR HDR10 passthrough:
- the colour of the subtitles look somewhat pale, the colour you choose in the Subtitle Colour menu is not matching the colour displayed on screen, as if HDR was not enabled for them (with madVR they look fine)
- each time a subtitle is displayed there is 1 frame dropped
Thank you for checking these
Same here for the dropped frames with HDR Passthrough when subtitles are displayed (latest forum build, Win 10, 5800X, RTX 3090). Looks like I'm gonna stick with MPC-BE/madvr on my LG OLED C8 until it's fixed ;)
But DTM for my Sony PJ works like a charm! :)
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Frame drops the first time subtitles are displayed (and sometimes even during playback) happen with SDR material too, it's not a HDR passthrough related issue. I don't think there is any pre-rendered cache of subtitles like MPC has for instance, so that would explain it.
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They are already working on re-implementing subtitles for JRVR to avoid the frame drops.
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I have bought a Ryzen 7 5700G CPU and tested JRVR
I am happy to report that 4K HDR movies with HDR passthrough using 23.976Hz with my Philips OLED805 TV there are no frame drops! (except for subtitles occasionally but that is a known issues and hopefully it will be fixed soon)
I am using the highest quality settings: Jinc scaling, SuperRes, FSRCNNX 16, Bilateral Chroma Scaling, Blue Noise Dithering
Average rendering speed is 23ms, GPU load is 70%, CPU load is one-figure
There is frame drop with 60fps videos but totally not noticeable
KUDOS to Hendrik and the JRiver team for making this happen, much appreciated!
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i7-4770 3.4GHz
16GB RAM
Win10 64bit
nVidia GT 710
HDMI to 1080p Tv (bitstream audio)
MC v28.0.98
JRVR lowest possible settings
Severe frame dropping for 1080p mpeg2 TS ac3 Tv files.
But playback is good for other various (non-mpeg2) 1080p videos. Also good for 720p mpeg2 & h264 TS Tv files.
And for all tv shows, when using the jump forward button two, or three, or more times in succession, there is a delay where the picture plays for one second then pauses for three seconds, while it waits to catch up with the audio.
Don't have either of these problems if I fall back to ROS.
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Hi:
I had MC in the past, then switched away from HTPC setup to streaming.
I'm thinking of "coming back" as my main TV consumption is Live TV sports and I enjoy the 4k upscaling that sometimes is broadcast. However it's pretty rare and I'd like to have something to upscale the current 1080i/720 feeds to 4k60. The Lumagen Radiance Pro / MadVR Envy are probably out of my price range.
I was wondering if the MC JRVR can upscale live TV at to 4k60 at a (close to) same quality as those boxes?
If so, I currently stream NBA League Pass and NFL Game Pass - would the JRVR handle those or woudl I need a cable TV sub w/cablecard + HDHomeRun Prime ?
thx
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I don't have any experience with these hardware boxes to do any comparisons, but if you have a decent system you can run really pretty good quality scaling algorithms.
Best would be to try JRVR yourself and judge if you are happy with the quality.
It should be fully integrated for both live TV and recorded TV as well.
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Thanks, guess I'll try that. And test it on some games that I've already recorded
Also, just curious - What online streaming sites does it support?
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Severe frame dropping for 1080p mpeg2 TS ac3 Tv files.
But playback is good for other various (non-mpeg2) 1080p videos. Also good for 720p mpeg2 & h264 TS Tv files.
You could try to enable the frame timing log in the JRVR debug options, but ultimately we'll likely have to get a sample to see if we can reproduce. Not much to do on a problem description like that.
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You could try to enable the frame timing log in the JRVR debug options, but ultimately we'll likely have to get a sample to see if we can reproduce. Not much to do on a problem description like that.
I'm not sure what JRVR debug is supposed to do? I enabled it, does it create a log file or something? Anyways, here is a video sample and screenshot:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wwa6-rwYsB6M05QZYx8yET2q-iepIypa/view?usp=sharing
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A log is created called "JRVRFrameLog.csv" and it is located in the hidden "C:\Users\[UserName]\Roaming\J River\Media Center 28" folder
That clips plays OK for me without dropping frames (but the deinterlacing looks off), but I'm running the Monitor Refresh rate at 59.94hz for NTSC material (this recording is flagged as 29.97 Interlaced Top Field First). I see you are running the monitor at 60hz, try setting Tools--> Options--> Video--> Display Settings--> Display Settings automatic change mode--> On
PS - I'm also running it on a pretty powerful GPU (3090)
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The short sample looks pretty clean. Nothing weird going on, just plain interlaced 1080p. If you can make sure the issue still happens with the sample (sometimes editing can change the behavior), then a frame log might be helpful, but it might also be possible that there are performance issues with 60 frames per second on a low-end card like a 710. We should probably record the time it takes for deinterlacing and also show queue fill status in the future.
I also assume you are using hardware decoding?
If all else fails, I could also add an option to deinterlace 30i to 30p instead of 60p, it sacrifices a bit of temporal resolution but would only require half the performance.
I'm not sure if EVR in ROStd does that automatically when it detects low performance, it sometimes certainly feels like that.
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Yes, the clip shows exact same issue as full shows. I am using Hardware Acceleration. I just tried turning on Display settings mode change (now 59.940), but playback is still bad. Seems to be a performance thing... Frame log attached.
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As far as i could understand, the new Source-Based Tone Mapping in HDMI 2.1a won't help with support for dolby vision and the like, right? I just thought I should ask in case i have misunderstood.
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Congrats!!!! JRVR wins over madvr with my RTX 3080 on a Samsung Neo Qled 8k 85QN900A.
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How does it win, can you give some details???
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How does it win, can you give some details???
Very simple, I ran all settings at maximum on both renderers.
I like the picture from JRVR more with my config. Beautifull sharp detail without giving up on total. Sdr and hdr output look great on one setting. No more tweaking around there. Everything just works what I throw in without losing out on quality. It just looks how it's supposed to look! So jrvr wins and it was worth the upgrade!
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Very simple, I ran all settings at maximum on both renderers.
I like the picture from JRVR more with my config. Beautifull detail without giving up on total. Sdr and hdr output look great on one setting. No more tweaking around there. Everything just works what I throw in without losing on quality. It just looks how it's supposed to look! So jrvr wins and it was worth the upgrade!
Thanks!
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Very simple, I ran all settings at maximum on both renderers.
I like the picture from JRVR more with my config. Beautifull sharp detail without giving up on total. Sdr and hdr output look great on one setting. No more tweaking around there. Everything just works what I throw in without losing out on quality. It just looks how it's supposed to look! So jrvr wins and it was worth the upgrade!
I thought this was the case until i ran into some scenes that did not work well with JRVR (went back to madvr using JR)
1. Mandalorian Season 1 ep 2... first 15 mins... just looks too dark for me in most settings, I can get it brighter but other scenes it's too bright.
2. Everest, first 5 mins, whites clipping in snow areas, couldn't fine tune a good picture.
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I thought this was the case until i ran into some scenes that did not work well with JRVR (went back to madvr using JR)
1. Mandalorian Season 1 ep 2... first 15 mins... just looks too dark for me in most settings, I can get it brighter but other scenes it's too bright.
2. Everest, first 5 mins, whites clipping in snow areas, couldn't fine tune a good picture.
What's your gear? I know it's tough getting the right settings...too much flexibility...too many choices ;-)
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Any chance of adding an MCC command to toggle the OSD in addition to Ctrl-J? Ctrl-J works fine for my Flirc, but I would like to use my MCE remote to toggle the OSD as well.
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Any chance of adding an MCC command to toggle the OSD in addition to Ctrl-J? Ctrl-J works fine for my Flirc, but I would like to use my MCE remote to toggle the OSD as well.
I'm doing this with an HP MCE remote using SendKey commands. Here's how:
1. Paste the below into Notepad and save it as SendkeyCTRL+j.wsf
<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.SendKeys "^j"
</script>
</job>
</package>
2. Paste the below into Notepad and save it as SendkeyCTRL+r.wsf
<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.SendKeys "^r"
</script>
</job>
</package>
3. In JRiver Media Center go to Tools, Options, Remote Control.
4. For Command Name, enter "MadVR OSD Toggle" or whatever you prefer for CTRL-J.
5. Click Add, Custom.
6. Click Add Run, then add the path and file of the wsf file you created in step 1 for CTRL-J.
7. Click OK twice.
8. Repeat steps 4-7, but name it "MadVR OSD Refresh" and use the wsf file for CTRL-R.
9. Select the new commands and click Start Learning to program them to two different buttons on your remote. Depending on the remote, some buttons won't learn this, but some will, based on my personal experience.
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I'm doing this with an HP MCE remote using SendKey commands. Here's how:
1. Paste the below into Notepad and save it as SendkeyCTRL+j.wsf
<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.SendKeys "^j"
</script>
</job>
</package>
2. Paste the below into Notepad and save it as SendkeyCTRL+r.wsf
<package>
<job id="vbs">
<script language="VBScript">
set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
WshShell.SendKeys "^r"
</script>
</job>
</package>
3. In JRiver Media Center go to Tools, Options, Remote Control.
4. For Command Name, enter "MadVR OSD Toggle" or whatever you prefer for CTRL-J.
5. Click Add, Custom.
6. Click Add Run, then add the path and file of the wsf file you created in step 1 for CTRL-J.
7. Click OK twice.
8. Repeat steps 4-7, but name it "MadVR OSD Refresh" and use the wsf file for CTRL-R.
9. Select the new commands and click Start Learning to program them to two different buttons on your remote. Depending on the remote, some buttons won't learn this, but some will, based on my personal experience.
Excellent, thanks!
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i7-4770 3.4GHz
16GB RAM
Win10 64bit
nVidia GT 710
HDMI to 1080p Tv (bitstream audio)
MC v28.0.98
JRVR lowest possible settings
Severe frame dropping for 1080p mpeg2 TS ac3 Tv files.
But playback is good for other various (non-mpeg2) 1080p videos. Also good for 720p mpeg2 & h264 TS Tv files.
Solved simply by changing from a GT710 to a GT1030 low profile 2GB. I'll move the 710 to another room, less used. Still get "delays" when using jump button several times.
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JRiver Team - I just wanted to let you know that I'm perfectly happy with v25 running madVR. I don't think JRVR has everything I need just yet (3DLUT capabilities, for example), but I love where you're going with this. I'm going to buy an upgrade today. I want to support the effort even if I'm not ready to move away from madVR at the moment.
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JRiver Team - I just wanted to let you know that I'm perfectly happy with v25 running madVR. I don't think JRVR has everything I need just yet (3DLUT capabilities, for example), but I love where you're going with this. I'm going to buy an upgrade today. I want to support the effort even if I'm not ready to move away from madVR at the moment.
I would really really love to move away from madvr too, but when you have a large 145" curved scope microperf screen, JVC NX9 you need the very best to get amazing results. JRVR isnt there yet to match madvr for me and Im not sure if it ever will match it, what do others think who have very large screens?
I can play a BD upscaled to 4K with madvr and I cant hardly tell the differance at times to the 4K versions I have of the same film. madvr is an amazing piece of software, I would dearly love JR to at least match madvr in qaulity, the day it does I will switch, pronto! :)
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Split Preview of JRVR in MC29 (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132075.msg915426.html#msg915426)
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Btw, would it be possible to create a Shortcut for changing the renderer before i start a video?
Would be fine to choose JRVR or madVR without jumping back in standardview and going into options and so on (i only use theatermode)
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Btw, would it be possible to create a Shortcut for changing the renderer before i start a video?
Would be fine to choose JRVR or madVR without jumping back in standardview and going into options and so on (i only use theatermode)
There are better solutions in the works.
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OK, then i will be patient
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Btw, would it be possible to create a Shortcut for changing the renderer before i start a video?
Would be fine to choose JRVR or madVR without jumping back in standardview and going into options and so on (i only use theatermode)
What would be awesome is per video settings.
Say you know you absolutely love settings XYZ in MadVR for Video A.
For another video, you love JRVR with settings ABC for Video B.
Then Video C you still prefer JRVR but want to enable superres when it opens the file...
Not sure how truly useful it is to most users but it could be an interesting way to deal with people who like to tinker per video.
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You can do some of that with Zones and Zoneswitch. Always play this file type to this zone.
I may split this to a new thread.
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Great day Hendrik, MC team,
Switched to JRVR since it became available in MC28, impressive work !
Q: yesterday I've noticed two given DVD menu's aren't valid, meaning the navigation is missing and you can't select any displayed option.
Tried to restart the title, still no go.
Switched back to RO MadVR and the navigation works again.
Is this something known and JRVR related ? Or should I look further what may causing this ?
FYI I moved to MC29 a week ago.
Thanks for your feedback,
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Great day all,
Concerning some DVD menu's which aren't valid (can't make a selection) when having JRVR selected.
Today I've found another title, this time it's a BR: Roger Water's Us+Them.
The main title can't be started, the screen stays black.
Switching over to MadVR and no problem.
Just want to let you know and in case i can be of help (test these titles) let me know.
Thanks.
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Blu-ray Menus and DVD Menus work entirely differently, so there is likely no correlation. At the very least we need to know what discs it happens on, but so far these are the first reports of such issues, so its hard to tell without seeing such a disc what might be wrong.
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So, not sure where to post this but when watching the latest Spiderman I noticed a loooot of brightness shifting/pumping in dark scenes (try 34:40) with default JRVR Settings. No such thing with default VLC or my madvr TM setup (an old 113b beta build with Neo XP settings). That might have something to do with Peak detection but I didn't want to test stuff in the middle of the movie with my wife ;D
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Blu-ray Menus and DVD Menus work entirely differently, so there is likely no correlation. At the very least we need to know what discs it happens on, but so far these are the first reports of such issues, so its hard to tell without seeing such a disc what might be wrong.
Many thanks Hendrik, indeed strange, here are the titles on which it seems a selection from the discmenu can't be made and so the movie can't be started with JRVR:
BR: "US+Them" by Roger Waters.
DVD: the kids title "Fan Boy Chum"
Both have a working menu when using MadVR.
In case i can provide or test something, let me know/pm.
I'm also surprises it's onto such a very limited amount of titles, as we own many hundreds of DVD and BR onto hd.
Could it be a focus or some interactive thing ? As the menu's do show up but no choices can be made when using JRVR ?
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DVD: the kids title "Fan Boy Chum"
This appears to be a series, any more details, season etc?
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Great day Hendrik,
This DVD has EAN: 5050582906059.
I've checked IMDb aswell but it's not listed.
I'm guessing typical for such TV series which appears in some regions on DVD aswell.
In case wanted i can provide you a link (pm).
The Roger Waters' seems me easier to identify: tt10121372
Thanks Hendrik.
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I got the Blu-ray in, but its not working for me either in madVR or JRVR, seems to be an issue with the menu in general. I'll do some more investigation.
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Hi Hendrik, thanks for testing.
In case usefull here are some of the things i see between both renderers:
-When using MadVR i can successfully start playing the title by choosing "Switch to title playback" from MC's OSD menu.
The "disc menu" option doesn't work indeed.
-When using JRVR i can't get any OSD to show up, neither to start the title in any way.
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I see, thanks, yes that is one difference, if JRVR never received any image from the disc, even a black one, it wont be able to show the OSD, I'll work on that to resolve that limitation.
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Hi,
I also have similar DVD menu problem when using JRVR: the menu is shown but the selection point is not visible. However the menu works because if I press Enter the menu item where the bullet should be starts. Up and down arrows also work they move the invisible selection. The disc is from a series titled ER.
An other issue I encountered with JRVR DVD payblack is that the movie starts in wrong aspect ratio 4:3 instead of 16:9. Disc title is Feet of Flames (tt0208140).
Both DVDs work fine with madVR.
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There are fixes in a future build for DVD menus which are mostly just a still frame, which weren't rendering the overlays properly
An other issue I encountered with JRVR DVD payblack is that the movie starts in wrong aspect ratio 4:3 instead of 16:9. Disc title is Feet of Flames (tt0208140).
I checked out that disc, and it pretty clearly with no chance of confusion indicates that it wants to show in 4:3 once the main movie starts. I don't know why madVR ignores that, but the disc sends quite clear instructions to that effect, despite actually having the menu in 16:9, so I don't consider that a bug right now. EVR also behaves the same way.
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Thx for checking. Overriding the aspect ratio to 16:9 solves the problem perfectly.
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Can JRVR tonemap hdr to hdr or only hdr to sdr?
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Can JRVR tonemap hdr to hdr or only hdr to sdr?
This is not a feature currently exposed, although the tonemapping algorithms can do it, so we may offer it down the line.
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Does JRiver think they might ever be able to get this (or MadVR) working with Netflix/Hulu/etc.?
I know it's not possible right now, but is it something that's on the drawing board at least?
Or is it a hard "not possible".
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The DRM protection of those streaming services make that pretty much impossible.
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Split Atmos (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132610.0.html)
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Hi All,
I have the following JRVR issue when playing a blu-ray encoded with VC-1 codec: if the playback is started in full menu mode the number of dropped and repeated frames is increasing continously on the performance metrics OSD during the movie. Everything is fine when starting the same blu-ray in title playback mode. ROHQ (madVR) has no such problem and it works fine in both modes.
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Please provide more details. Which disc is this on? Do you use refresh rate changing? Does it actually swap to the right refresh rate for the movie?
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Please provide more details. Which disc is this on? Do you use refresh rate changing? Does it actually swap to the right refresh rate for the movie?
Yes, I use refresh rate changing (set it up in Tools--> Options--> Video--> Display Settings menu) and MC swaps to the right rate (23.976) as well as the rendering times are also OK.
I experience the problem with any BD encoded with VC1 but one example is the movie Matrix. I attach a screenshot after playing the BD for 1 minute.
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Tested a few VC-1 and also saw the same thing. OK in Title Playback but Bad in BD Menu mode. Same behaviour both decoding vs bitstreaming.
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Thanks, I see whats wrong. It's technically not an issue with JRVR but with Blu-ray playback, but it'll get fixed.
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:)
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Thank you! :)
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I can confirm this as well, the Star Trek: The Original Series BluRays (which were encoded using VC-1, even the interlaced video extras) are dropping many frames, and are a stutter fest.
I also discovered another issue which happens only in BluRay playback mode, but not in Title playback mode: blinking subtitles on some BluRays (the subtitles show and hide themselves every half second or so). An example is the Drive My Car Japanese Bluray (which has English subtitles on it too, although it does not matter, the blinking happens with both Japanese and English subtitles). If it's difficult to source it, I'll try to make a sample.
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Thanks Hendrik, Indeed solved within .27
Concerning some DVD menu's which aren't valid (can't make a selection) when having JRVR selected.
Today I've found another title, this time it's a BR: Roger Water's Us+Them.
The main title can't be started, the screen stays black.
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I'm sorry to say, the out-of-order frames on the DVD sample I posted is still present in build 27. It happens right when the opening sequence begins (the view of the ship Voyager passing in front of a star). And if I skip backwards after the opening sequence begins to some frame from before (when they are still in the shuttle cabin), it happens again when that sequence ends and the opening sequence begins again (only the frames that can be seen this time are different than initially).
VC1 Bluray playback is fine in build 27 indeed, though. The one frame DVD menus (like the initial splash screen to select the language) too. :)
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I'm sorry to say, the out-of-order frames on the DVD sample I posted is still present in build 27. It happens right when the opening sequence begins (the view of the ship Voyager passing in front of a star). And if I skip backwards after the opening sequence begins to some frame from before (when they are still in the shuttle cabin), it happens again when that sequence ends and the opening sequence begins again (only the frames that can be seen this time are different than initially).
Looks like the D3D11 video processor somehow caches frames hidden to me, so now it'll get fully shutdown on seek or when switching to progressive, so no remnants can possibly remain.
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Split Linux Driver Question
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Thanks for the excellent JRVR. I'm only missing madVR's "Smooth Motion".
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Are you switching refresh rates? If so, do you really need Smooth Motion?
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Ive been testing JRVR and it seems pretty stable and easy to use but I really miss my sharpness of running madvr NGU Very High. I also miss that there are no Image Inhancements on JRVR as I use very low settings on madvr as follows, sharpen edges, thin edges, enhance detail, these really help on a very large screen of 150".
Do you think JRVR might sometime get these enhancement, they day they do I will move off madvr.
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FYI - there is a good review of scalers here (https://artoriuz.github.io/blog/mpv_upscaling.html)- and "Fast Super-Resolution Convolutional Neural Network" (FSRCNN) (note: madVR NGU is not on the comparison list however). The only issue I have is that as FSRNCC is very faithful to the source, it also sharpens the artifacts on lower quality material. Hendrik is the authority on all of this, but as he said "Investigating artifact removal algorithms is sometime in the future".
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Are you switching refresh rates? If so, do you really need Smooth Motion?
Not much, and yes. With a 60Hz-only monitor and a 50/60Hz projector, Smooth Motion helps a lot. Yes, a hardware upgrade would be nice but until then SM will have to do.
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I've split the questions regarding colors and HDR tonemapping to their own thread here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132758.0.html
In general, if you have a lengthy question and/or request help with setup or investigate an issue, a new thread is generally far better to contain your discussion and ensure nothing gets missed when other discussions pop up in the main thread.
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jmone’s post a few above this has me wondering how scaling is handled in commercial theaters?
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jmone’s post a few above this has me wondering how scaling is handled in commercial theaters?
I don't think they really scale content in digital theater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema#:~:text=Two%20levels%20of%20resolution%20for,4K%20projectors%20and%20vice%20versa.) like we think of it, as the DCP package (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Package) with the video encoded as JPEG 2000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000) for each frame.
Over 90% of the theatres in the world now screen from DCPs. If you’ve seen a movie in a cinema lately – it was likely from a Digital Cinema Print. (https://thedcpmaster.com/dcp-digital-cinema-print/#:~:text=A%20DCP%20or%20Digital%20Cinema,from%20a%20Digital%20Cinema%20Print.)
In summary:
- The entire pipeline from encoding to projection is tightly defined and controlled (so there are only a few combination of options)
- "Digital Theaters" will have a 2K or 4K projector (DLP)
- Content is these DCP packages deliver 2K or 4K JPEG 2000 based video that is fed to the DLP (which I assume is where any scaling, frame rate switching etc is done).
There is more info at https://www.isdcf.com/site/smpte-dcp-tests/ with sample footage that can be downloaded but they certainly don't play in MC (but media info will give you some details on the files, one MXF each for video, audio, and subs).
Edit, reading some more. The max bit rate for DCP is 250Mbs, and while a 2K or 4K Projector can take a 2K or 4K package a mismatch creates a drop in perceived image quality (do to the up or down scaling). As a result, studios tend to create both a 2K and 4K version on the same package and the cinema will then plays the correct one that matches their projector.
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I don't think they really scale content in digital theater (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema#:~:text=Two%20levels%20of%20resolution%20for,4K%20projectors%20and%20vice%20versa.) like we think of it, as the DCP package (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Package) with the video encoded as JPEG 2000 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_2000) for each frame.
Over 90% of the theatres in the world now screen from DCPs. If you’ve seen a movie in a cinema lately – it was likely from a Digital Cinema Print. (https://thedcpmaster.com/dcp-digital-cinema-print/#:~:text=A%20DCP%20or%20Digital%20Cinema,from%20a%20Digital%20Cinema%20Print.)
In summary:
- The entire pipeline from encoding to projection is tightly defined and controlled (so there are only a few combination of options)
- "Digital Theaters" will have a 2K or 4K projector (DLP)
- Content is these DCP packages deliver 2K or 4K JPEG 2000 based video that is fed to the DLP (which I assume is where any scaling, frame rate switching etc is done).
There is more info at https://www.isdcf.com/site/smpte-dcp-tests/ with sample footage that can be downloaded but they certainly don't play in MC (but media info will give you some details on the files, one MXF each for video, audio, and subs).
Edit, reading some more. The max bit rate for DCP is 250Mbs, and while a 2K or 4K Projector can take a 2K or 4K package a mismatch creates a drop in perceived image quality (do to the up or down scaling). As a result, studios tend to create both a 2K and 4K version on the same package and the cinema will then plays the correct one that matches their projector.
Scaling is not allowed per the digital cinema initiative but there is talk this will change as videowalls slowly find their way into the commercial cinema industry.
Using a HTPC the JRVR Renderer is off to an excellent start. Looking at a really big image through a cinema projector it renders an image smoother and cleaner than Madvr. As the renderer matures please do not allow for filters that reduce image quality producing that digital look due to EE, haloes etc.
I have not read the entire thread, I am starting from the end working my way toward the beginning. Can the renderer be downloaded? As new features are added it would be nice to have the security to roll back to an earlier version. Keep up the good work.
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Can the renderer be downloaded? As new features are added it would be nice to have the security to roll back to an earlier version.
It's part of MC. You could always download an older build of MC from the forum threads.
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The new JRVR settings are working great.
I've got a scope screen and when using an anamorphic lens, i use horizontal zooming so use the maximum light output when the image is squeezed vertically.
This works great but the JRiver OSD is now outside of my visible screen. I have to change my aspect out of anamorphic mode to use the OSD.
Feature request: Is there a way to have the OSD float inside anamorphic section? I think this feature is available in Dsplayer etc...
thanks.
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I try the new 3DLut option and I am impressed so far.
I noticed that the standard Gamut is rec1886 in JRiver, is this the best also for the 3DLut?
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I chose that as the standard because it's the standard for creating .cube 3DLUTs with DisplayCal, but any choice should work, as long as both the 3DLUT generation and the JRVR setting are the same, since this is just the input to the 3DLUT. The output of the 3DLUT will of course correspond to your desired display gamma, matched to the calibration measurements.
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I see.
The picture is great with the Lut, only in some darker moments faces are red oversaturated. Can anybody confirm this? It is only red and especially black faces like Samuel L Jackson in Captain Marvel (Timestamp 1h:04m)
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This will show a lack of understanding ... but anyway...
Does JRVR in Windows work outside MC? Eg would it help internet streaming? Curious if it means a light weight iGPU system could benefit in improved video quality outside of MC.
Thanks
Z
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This will show a lack of understanding ... but anyway...
Does JRVR in Windows work outside MC? Eg would it help internet streaming? Curious if it means a light weight iGPU system could benefit in improved video quality outside of MC.
Thanks
Z
No. It's not.
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I see.
The picture is great with the Lut, only in some darker moments faces are red oversaturated. Can anybody confirm this? It is only red and especially black faces like Samuel L Jackson in Captain Marvel (Timestamp 1h:04m)
I solved the problem for me. If I use a LUT in BT.2020 format, the colors are oversaturated. If I use a DCI P3 LUT and tell JRiver that it is a BT.2020 LUT all is fine.
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I wasn't completely sure where to post this, but I've noticed a small bug in the JRVR upscaling settings.
Whatever selection I make under Cubic (shaders) always reverts to bicubic150, it's effectively the only cubic shader selectable.
I found out because I wanted to try Mitchell-Netravelli, but wasn't able to.
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I wasn't completely sure where to post this, but I've noticed a small bug in the JRVR upscaling settings.
Whatever selection I make under Cubic (shaders) always reverts to bicubic150, it's effectively the only cubic shader selectable.
I found out because I wanted to try Mitchell-Netravelli, but wasn't able to.
Thanks for reporting, that should be fixed in the next build.
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Hmmm have an curious problem with JRVR GUI.
When i start an video and call the GUI it doesnt show, I had to stop the video short, replay it and then the GUI shows when called. This always happens after starting my PC, after the first stop of an video then the GUI always will be visible when i call it. Only when PC is fresh booted and i start first time a video, then the GUI will not be visible till i stop one short moment.
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Are i the only one with this curious problem?
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What happens if you switch to madVR?
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With madvr the GUI shows not such behaviour.
Only jrvr ?
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Sounds to me like Media Center doesn't actually have input focus when you try to do that. Just click onto the video first and then press Ctrl-J to make sure the key goes to it.
JRVR does not use "global" hotkeys like madVR, because those can be rather disruptive, and rather just needs to be properly in focus to receive the hotkeys.
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I will try this tomorrow.
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Hi Hendrik, i try this today and it doesnt work.
Same Behaviour like before. First call of GUI after booting the PC, the GUI will not come. I had to stop first and restart, and then it comes every time i call it.
I say, it is no big Drama at all, when i have JRVR settings finished i will not start every video i watch the GUI. But it was a little strange so i asked here if i'm the only one with that problem.
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Some constructive criticism:
The new JRVR video renderer doesn't look as good as MadVr on high settings. I just watched the same scene in HEAT on Blu-Ray (starting at 0:15:00) and switched between JRVR and MadVR modes, its very noticeable that MadVR is on another level: more color saturation and greater contrast. MadVr just looks more "polished" while JRVR looks comparatively grainier and washed out. You guys have some work to do to match JRVR with the power of higher-end graphics cards. I use a AMD 6700XT, JRVR uses about 50% of the GPU, MadVR uses 85%-90% at high settings.
It's too bad because I upgraded from MC25 just to get the JRVR.
Thanks
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Did you try changing settings?
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yes I tried a few settings, but who knows what combo of settings will work best. I can get it close... but the color and sharpness is still a little better in MadVR.
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I use a AMD 6700XT, JRVR uses about 50% of the GPU, MadVR uses 85%-90% at high settings.
Out of curiosity, how did you set up the video tab in the Adrenalin panel?
Thank you
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Does the JRVR renderer not support 3D MVC, I can't find any settings for 3D like I do when I use JRiver with madVR
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Does the JRVR renderer not support 3D MVC, I can't find any settings for 3D like I do when I use JRiver with madVR
No, JRVR does not support 3D. For 3D you want to continue using madVR.
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Some constructive criticism:
The new JRVR video renderer doesn't look as good as MadVr on high settings. I just watched the same scene in HEAT on Blu-Ray (starting at 0:15:00) and switched between JRVR and MadVR modes, its very noticeable that MadVR is on another level: more color saturation and greater contrast. MadVr just looks more "polished" while JRVR looks comparatively grainier and washed out. You guys have some work to do to match JRVR with the power of higher-end graphics cards. I use a AMD 6700XT, JRVR uses about 50% of the GPU, MadVR uses 85%-90% at high settings.
It's too bad because I upgraded from
MC25 just to get the JRVR.
Thanks
They have just started this project. If You see in jrvrs setting, there will in the future be the possibility to use pre installed settings for low, medium and high end cards. This is something that will come some time in the future. So they are aware that madvr outperforms jrvr on high settings. So it will be better for those with high end gpus. Hope I did nothing wrong by answering this critique. You can read about this in the thread about future jrvr plans.
The presets are visable here. I read about it somewhere, but did not find it. https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/JRVR_-_JRiver_Video_Renderer/Configuration#Advanced_Mode
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I am doing some playing around with HDR on my Server PC, and the colors are washed out on my Tv screen. This is if I enable HDR in Windows settings (testing only), or when I play an HDR video file in JRVR. The Tv screen blacks out for a second and it when comes back the colors are muted, desktop or videos. But if I pull up the Sony Tv picture settings menu, the HDR Mode indication is NOT On, as should be like when playing something from built in apps, or Sony Bluray player, or Shield Pro, or Roku, etc. Incredibly, if I chrome remote desktop into the system, the colors are over saturated on the laptop screen!
Some quick facts:
1. Windows display settings confirm Display capabilities > Use HDR = Yes and Use WCG apps = Yes. But I am NOT enabling HDR in Windows display settings when using JRVR.
2. JRVR says Screen is HDR capable = Yes. I have both HDR check marks checked.
3. When not in HDR mode, my Denon reports 4k60, RGB, 8bit
4. When playing HDR video (or enable HDR in Windows display settings), my Denon reports 4k60, BT.2020 RGB, 8bit -isn't this supposed to say 10 bit?
JRVR ctrl-j screen shot...
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8 bit is fine for HDR. The screen shot is showing that JRVR is outputting HDR. The Denon is also reporting HDR (well 2020). No idea why the TV is not switching (my Sony does but that is via a Yami AVR)
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I am doing some playing around with HDR on my Server PC, and the colors are washed out on my Tv screen. This is if I enable HDR in Windows settings (testing only), or when I play an HDR video file in JRVR. The Tv screen blacks out for a second and it when comes back the colors are muted, desktop or videos. But if I pull up the Sony Tv picture settings menu, the HDR Mode indication is NOT On....
Disregard. HDR now working. Move along.
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Hi,
Just switched to JRVR today as MADVR project is mostly dead and, to be honest, I got tired of tweaking it to make it work like I want.
First, I really enjoy it and will definitely move on. The HDR passthrough is stunning. Moving from SDR to HDR works like a charm.
However, I have 2 questions that might be stupid but I can't figure out:
1- My interlaced content isn't deinterlaced. To do so, I had to move to custom setting and add the Yadif option to Lav Filter for making deinterlacing. Does it mean that my GPU can't recognize the interlaced content?!?
2- My 25 and 50 fps video is rendered in 1080p while other framerates are rendered in 2160p. 25 and 50 are available in the display for 2160p. Does anyone know what could cause that? The EDID?
Feature request: Madvr has an option to correct wrong encoded black/white level. I have few videos that are encoded 32-223 instead of 16-239. That will probably the only use of MADVR I will do in a near future.
Not an expert at all, so any help will be much more appreciated. Still have to test it, but so far, I love it!
Thanks
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Using madVR for Blu-ray upscaling to 4K. Works fine with my old Nvidia Quadro K5200 (about equiv. to a GTX 1050-Ti) on moderate settings 75% GPU and looks a lot better than JRVR and doesn't drop frames once it's settled in.
Another Zone uses JRVR for DVD upscaling to 4K. Too much for madVR to handle on the Blu-ray settings which are not Zone-specific, so DVD has a different Zone using JRVR.
A ZoneSwitch rule detects DVD File Type = IFO (as against BDMV for Blu-ray). JRVR works well with pretty high settings and just 35% to 40% GPU, but drops a frame every 20 seconds or so for no apparent reason. Any ideas? VideoClock and Hardware acceleration are checked.
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I got a problem with colours on my projector.
I use the HDR Tonemapping feature included in JRiver MC29. The picture looks very good (not to dark and brilliant colours) but the colour red is way to saturated. The other colours look fine.
My Projector is calibrated to REC2020 (as far as possible) so i have chosen the REC2020 profile. I leave Gamma as it is.
Any suggestion what might be my problem?
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These are the setting i choose (which give me the over saturated red picture).
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Your EPSON LS10000 covers P3 pretty well but not 2020 (and I thought in a previous post you said it was calibrated for P3 not 2020?). FWIW - There are very very few 2020 capable displays on the consumer market, and little 2020 content (even most UHD BD's limit gamut to P3 in a 2020 wrapper). I'd suggest you stick to P3 and see how that looks.
(https://www.androidauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Rec-2020-vs-709-color-gamut.jpg.webp)
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I don't think that projector has a p3 output mode, if so sending p3 would not be right. You probably want to post exactly how your pj is configured though to be sure.
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It is dci calibrated. Now everything looks good.
I got one question regarding scaling algorithms.
Which one is the best to choose. I do use the FSRCNNX16 which looks as good as madvr or even better. But which algorithm to choose? I use a rtx3070.
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For quality, Jinc is the best, which catches any cases where FSRCNNX16 can't work, since its designed only for doubling the resolution.
Although with Jinc and FSRCNNX active, I would probably recommend to disable SuperRes, it does better work on softer scalers.
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Hi folks,
What about having a continuosly updated thread about recommended Nvidia, AMD and Intel drivers for video renderers in JRiver? I know that one on doom9, but jriver forum deserves one as well.
I´m on Nvidia GTX1060 and 442.74 with latest Win10. This works fine for both madvr and jrvr, but its from 2020 and not future proof.
Thanks
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The font of the Ctrl J data is so big that information is truncated:
(https://dsm04pap001files.storage.live.com/y4mirGdE0Hk6zN6glh7iIV8qM4oaZExTORFzwCQGMuT3RtLU9ricAXavu9o8UPC1U1NDCCUJKrZWIkpkOjJKDi3aQmgDxk8L7nUuJ-IkPiAoCJ0FCCjRs2g1Fu_rWrCsU2YO4vIEuuPXCoAKo48J22Dg3oNtBbGedK4ODJueCfCjlesezbDKdRpL0koGVyViseU?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none)
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I did not find it in the Wiki or on the forum:
What is the difference between "built-in", "shader" and Jinc "nothing"? Software vs. use of GPU shaders?
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built-in uses GPU fixed functions, which is pretty fast. All others are GPU shaders.
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Hello guys,
i just watched "Bumblebee" UHD with the latest JRiver release. I have a problem with stuttering picture. I use the JRiver internal scaler. When using madvr instead no problem so far. I use a RTX 3070 as GPU.
When i disable debanding the stuttering is gone. But i think the debanding should be active (at least in mode low).
The RTX3070 should be fast enough (it does play madvr in high settings without problems). I really like the internal scaler from JRiver better than madvr so i hope someone can help me with this problem :(