INTERACT FORUM
Devices => Video Cards, Monitors, Televisions, and Projectors => Topic started by: tkolsto on February 14, 2022, 09:46:48 am
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windows 10 pro. all the latest updates
av: windows defender
amd phenom ii x4 965
8 gb ram
nvidia gt 1030, 2 gb.j( 4k hdr , 60hz).
Tv: Lg oled65B1
Update: During this thread I scrapped my old Desktop And a bought a new one. (Before that I also used my "office" pc which is newer (amd ryzen 7 2700x, 16 gb ram and rtx 3050).
My new Pc:
os: windows 10 pro
av: windows defender
ram: 16 gb
cpu: intel i5 12600
mb: asrock Z690
gpu: Rtx 3050 8 gb
I have problem with playing Large video files 4k hdr. It stutter/pixleating during play apporx 50 gb.
Most of my files are much lower. so I have not encounter this problem until now
I used to use red october hq(fast computer). terrym@tassie recommended I use jrvr. and it was better but still it will not play smoothly. I have only activated passthroug hdr.
Somebody know why this is a problem. My cpu workload is low during play and it is low also when I use red october HQ.
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I read on the internett, that large file size is a common cause for lagging. So there might not be a solution other than buy a new card(with hdmi 2.1) when they eventually become available in stores or compress the videofile.
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When playing the file using JRVR:
- Bring up the OSD stats (Press Ctrl+J)
- Post a print screen of the stats (or write them out)
This will give a better idea of what is happening.
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Are the files local or are they on a network drive or USB drive?
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It is on local drive and this file which is over 49 gb(Jurassic.World.Fallen.Kingdom.2018.UHD.2160p.Bluray.Remux.HEVC.HDR.DTS-X.7.1-DTOne)
not usb or network(other pc) but sata hardrive locally
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here are two "screen shots". Most of the times the hz shows 59.9 hz not 50 or even 30 hz sometimes. click on the link on the bottom to get full picture.
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OK - your trying to play a 23.976fps at 60fps which is killing your 1030 as it can not render out these frames fast enough to keep under 16.6ms at this refresh rate.
You need to turn on MC's Display Rate Changer (Tools--> Options--> Video--> Display Settings automatic change mode--> to ON) so that MC will place your display into the same refresh rate as your media (eg 23.976hz). The 1030 now has 41.7ms to render each frame and should now be fine.
See how that goes.
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The peak numbers being that high seems to indicate that you might be running out of graphics memory. The 2gb on the 1030 isn't that great.
There is an improvement coming to JRVR in MC29 that may help a bit, and we might look into tuning memory use, but there is only so much we can do when it's 4K 10-bit content.
OK - your trying to play a 23.976fps at 60fps which is killing your 1030 as it can not render out these frames fast enough to keep under 16.6ms at this refresh rate.
This is not actually required. JRVR always renders eg. 23.976 frames per second (matching the input) and just skips empty VSYNCs to avoid this problem.
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This is not actually required. JRVR always renders eg. 23.976 frames per second (matching the input) and just skips empty VSYNCs to avoid this problem.
So with JRVR do we need to do frame rate to display frequency matching at all, eg are you saying JRVR does not use any pull down pattern with a mismatch?
Thanks
Nathan
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So with JRVR do we need to do frame rate to display frequency matching at all, eg are you saying JRVR does not use any pull down pattern with a mismatch?
Thanks
Nathan
Nah, just tried watching a 23.976fps BD @ 50hz and see the expected repeated frames every second. Still better off using Display Rate Changer to match the media's FPS to Display Frequency.
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For perfectly fluid playback you still want to do that, but there is no performance difference.
I run my TV on 100 (for 25/50 fps) or 120 Hz (for 24/30/60), and it doesn't cost any more then perfectly matched rates would - but it avoids rate changes in many situations, as 120 is just my desktop rate, so all I need to swap for is PAL content.
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Gotcha, I thought that the extra presentations would also cost. Learnt something new today. The basic idea is still correct in using MC's Display rate changer to match (or have an exact Multiple) of the media's fps to the display rate to avoid dropping or repeating frames.
Thanks
Nathan
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Re-written/updated the post!:
I have tried synching hz and fps. Still it was lagging. I have changed jrvr with and without synch hz and fps. and also ROHQ also with and without synch. My experience it is this. large files are the problem. stuttering. When I does a lot of changing in jriver settings it sometimes does not follow(either jriver or windows is the problem) and it become unresponsive. Also when It is working good. It work good on both ROHQ AND JRVR also without synching hz/fps. I have also got these large files behaving not that bad(just small quick stutter here and there(but I dont know if this is stable over time. Very strange. It is not easy to spot what did the trick when I do the same thing and sometimes it work and sometimes it doesnt. Something is making my pc or jriver not adjust to change og the different video settings. Confusing: yes!
But I understand the administrators messages and that is the correct way to go about this stuttering. I learned a lot by these post they made. What do I need to pay attention to when monitore performance in OSD(ctrl - J) Under performance at the bottom: 1)overall.., 2)color dept... ,3) overlay ...or are all 3 equal important. Mayby overall is the most important that is able to be below 16.6 ms?
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both cards should have support for hdmi 2.1 120hz
MSI GeForce RTX 3050 VENTUS 2X
Skjermkort, PCI Express 4.0, 8GB GDDR6, Ampere(not available yet): https://www.komplett.no/product/1205850/datautstyr/pc-komponenter/skjermkort/msi-geforce-rtx-3050-ventus-2x#
nvidia card
or
radeon card
ASRock Radeon RX 6500 XT Phantom Gaming D(available!)
Skjermkort, PCI Express 4.0, 4GB GDDR6
https://www.komplett.no/product/1205724/datautstyr/pc-komponenter/skjermkort/asrock-radeon-rx-6500-xt-phantom-gaming-d#
The msi card is 128 bit and 8 gb and asrock is 64 bit and 4 gb. Should I wait for the msi card or does these things not really matter?
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Out of these two I'd get the 3050. I'd also tend to steer away from AMD cards in general simply as most HTPC users are historically NVidia (or iGPU).... not that they may be poor, but just if there is more support as that is what most of us run.
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Thank You jmone!
I also think nvidia is the best alternativ. I will wait until it becomes available. Probably worth waiting for.
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Hmm.. there is also stuttering playing everthing now. small files a little stuttering. larger files more stuttering/lagging and also rumble or youtube videos. panning stop panning stop panning stop...So that means that it is something else that does the stuttering/lagging on JRiver and that could also be why JRVR is not better, because it is something else that is creating problems.
I tried uninstalling every video/display driver on the pc and then just let windows reinstall drivers after a reboot. but then instead of stuttering during panning or motion. it was making a stop, movement..stop..movement ...stop..movement...it's now where it stops, is bluring the object that is i motion...so now it is movement..blur..movement ..blur..
I have not installed nvidia drivers yet...which I am going to do after work. ..but then I am pretty sure it will be back to stop..motion..stop ..motion..stop..motion..
Anyone knows what can cause this overall stuttering in videoplay and streaming. For ex. can the internettprovider make such problems. during streaming and also local play of videofile
when I try streaming videos at work (rumble youtube)..it is more or less ok(low graphic performance pc). but it is way better.
I am going to try Neflix and Hbo to see if this is a fundamental flaw in the system(this is on my desktop that I have connected to my Tv)
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Don't install Norton, but do configure Windows Defender. Follow the instructions in the Windows Defender thread here.
My first guess was that something was making the drive access very slow, but if it happens when you're streaming video over the Internet (Youtube), then that's not likely.
If you haven't done so, try setting Red October to Standard, HQ, as well as JRVR. Just to see what happens.
Try a DVD if you can.
You may need to re-install Windows.
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I Am streaming youtube in a browser, and not in JRiver. playing from a file it stutters and on youtube it blurs instead lagging where there is quick motion and using rumble it stutters again. Also I think my Desktop(tv) turned it self off now. And also when I came home the pc was turned on as always, but the signal was lost, not desktop picture. I had to restart the pc to get picture again on the TV.
At this point, Yes I will reinstall is the only way.
I played a dvd at my pc blueray integrated diskplayer and there also was stuttering, better but clearly styttering. Then I connected my Panasonice bluerayplayer to my TV and played the same scene and there where no stuttering. One could se a bit on different scenes. I have not used my bluerayplayer for a long time. I think bluerayplayers are not perfect so this was normal behaviour. So then there probably are no problems with the TV. So this is a pc system error, thus reinstallation. Thank You for good error detection.
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I have reinstalled win 10 pro. It is much better now, but I think there are still some stuttering/lagging. I have to test more after work. I did test the integrated bd player in my pc and it was better. and also tested the same Covenant alien film(downloaded movie)(ROHQ) and it was also better, but not the same as before this stutting started. Maybe all will mostly be corrected when I get the RTX 3050(hdmi 2.1, 120hz). I suspect that.
I have a question. I have not done the windows defender config yet. This is done because defender is interfearing with JRiver. What problems can defender normally cause? could it cause it to stutter ? or is it just a precaution for other and larger problems that can happen?
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Yes, antivirus software will slow down disk access. Configuring it correctly will help.
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I have of course done the settings now in defender all posts.
I also watched Ozark at netflix also some stuttering ( one scene there was a large stutter i played it again it was not there, but when one continue to watch the movie there are some stutters. so netflix is better than youtube and such.
There is something that creating stutters/lagging. on youtube it si not smooth.
youtube: at 2 min high jump (clearly stutters): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOVwes_kL7I
as goes for playing downloaded covenant alien movie 4k hdr 10bit 20 gb file, it has been better. but watchable. but something is not like it used to be because it was actually very smooth. I set the qualitysettings to performance and in madvr I altered the picture in advance from 8 to 4 which used to improve and made spaceships move smoothly over the screen. at approx 27 min to until 29 min 48 sec. I watch the spaceships panning ( 3 times during this scene so it is a good test). still it gives small stutters. but what is strange is that it run it again it is smooth(so I now know it can be smoooth at least, but something make it unstable and does not get to be smooth everytime, but at least I can watch this movie(I also one time it the spaceship moved smooth ended in bluescreen(just one time). I sometimes (seldom) get a bluescreen and a restart. so this is strange behaviour.
Interstellar and aquaman small stutters and also in these two movies the voices are ok soundtrackmusic is not that clear and a bit lower sound. (interstellar 35 gb and aquaman 15 gb so size does not matter).
Now I dont know what to think anymore.
I am now uncertain that a rtx 3050 will solve this or maybe it will.
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I now know my graphic card is ok. I use ssd as C: disk(system). could it be that this is corrupted?
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If you don't have the following already set in nvidia control panel, give these settings a try.
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Vertical Sync --> On
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Power Management Mode --> Prefer Maximum Performance
Keep in mind it is only a 2GB old entry level GPU.
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Could be thermal throttling with that passive heatsink, check your temperatures when it starts stuttering. Might be time for a repaste or better case fans/air flow. You could also undervolt it a bit to reduce temps.
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I think the card entered the market in 2017. So it is not that old. and also the memory is not gddr4 but gddr5. memory clock speed is 6gbps. memory band width 48 gbps. it should have no problems with youtube and rumble(yes many of the videos are bad which I watch but the stuttering is worse). I called an intenett shop and the service guy hinted it could be a driver issue and said that maybe an old driver could be the solution. ( I never thought of that, but I have low expectation, but I am going to try it.). This is silent fanless graphic card.
And could be that inno3b is a bad brand? and that could be it not working so good together with the drivers from nvidia?
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jimone, these settings that you recommend. I know that in nvidia panel one choose programsetting and find the JRiver exe file and choose it and set the values recommended.
could it be also do this in globel settings so that maybe everything might get better like using the browser Opera which I use to watch my youtube ?
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Some personal experience with graphics cards and 4K which may help you:
Nvidia 1030 2GB Passmark G3D Mark score: 2553
Nvidia 960 4GB Passmark G3D Mark score: 6047
Nvidia 1060 6GB Passmark G3D Mark score: 10093
I was using a 960 GPU successfully with Madvr to upscale to HD (1080P), when I started using a 4K OLED tv I had to upgrade to a 1060 GPU with 6GB memory.
I get no frame drops with 4K HDR pass-through at 60fps using JRVR. The 1060 GPU utilization is approx 85% at maximum clock rate(1850 MHz).
One of the issues with 4K playback is memory usage hence my upgrade to 6GB for use with a 4K display.
The above benchmarks show that a 1060 GPU is about 4 times faster than a 1030 GPU (2553 vs 10093).
The 960 GPU I upgraded from is about 2 times faster than a 1030 GPU.
Bottom line: EDIT: @fitbrit has tested a 1030 and achieved smooth 4k playback
I think you will be very lucky if you are able to get smooth playback of 4K HDR with a 1030 2GB GPU.
You can check the power usage/performance during playback using tools such as MSI Afterburner or Nvidia Inspector to see exactly how the 1030 GPU is performing. In my experience if a GPU is running above 90% utilization it will be dropping frames.
EDIT: As above
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I think that in English parlance: 'You may be trying to get a quart out of a pint pot'
Terry
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FWIW, I make those Nvidia setting changes in the Global not per app.
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One thing that I believe is not accounted for; the 10-series gpus have much better h265/hevc decoding than previous generations. Hence the pass mark scores are not totally relevant. I’ve managed to get smooth 4K playback on a 1030 and 1060, but a 960 struggles.
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One thing that I believe is not accounted for; the 10-series gpus have much better h265/hevc decoding than previous generations. Hence the pass mark scores are not totally relevant. I’ve managed to get smooth 4K playback on a 1030 and 1060, but a 960 struggles.
That is quite true and Passmark scores don't necessarily equate to video playback performance (I didn't get twice the rendering speed when I upgraded from a 960 to a 1060).
I am heartened to hear that you have achieved smooth playback with a 1030, perhaps you could share your settings with @tkolsto. What was the 4K framerate and GPU utilization as a matter of interest?
Maybe all is not lost for @tkolsto....
Terry
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I tested the 1030 before JRVR was a thing, using MadVR.
I’ll check the settings I used. I think it was the performance preset in MadVR, with just a few tweaks. I speculate that JRVR will do even better.
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Another thing to note is that the OP is using a very old cpu. When I had a 2nd gen i5, my 1050ti struggled with 4K content too. Upgrading to a 7700k fixed the issue. I know that cpu usage is not too high, but could it be that it is spiking enough to cause stuttering but not enough to register in the monitoring tool?
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I just tried JRiver. Red October HQ. I ticked the 3 boxes for better performance.(hardware accelarate video decoding when possible, videoclock smoothe video by adjusting audio and optimize hardware for optimal performance). In quality settings I chose performance(so it is now not default settings). And then I went into madvr advanced setting and under rendering I set in windowed mode to 4 and exclusive mode to 4(I set both to 4 just because to be sure). synching the hz does not prevent the stutter so left it at off. same for all the defender taming. I could not see any difference.
With covenant (3840 X 2160)I have the ok results. but there are some stuttering( glitches count that shows on screen monitor. That is the indicator how well the movie is shown, Yes and if this rises to a certain point than it became worse right!) the scene with spaceship floating over the screen went well. or more accurate it when I loaded the film a second time it was better. this was also the case last time I tested the covenant. the glitches is little and is when people move. but very littel in this movie compare to the martian.
I also tried The Martian(3840 x 1600) and it had more glitches that I saw in the movie. also very close up like a ladder decended from above and downwards was very glitchy but this is because probably be several things like old cpu poor graphics card i reckon. and this lower resolution could be that the card is not handling as good as original 3840 x 2160.
the card showed ca 50 celsius which is not at all high and gpu was at 50 to 40 percent. but then the hdr did not want to kick inn while I used this invidia inspector so the gpu usage is probably higher if the hdr would have kicked inn.
what goes for netflix and youtube rumble it is sometimes lower performance because most videos have to be scaled up and that is the grafic card`s and or cpu task I reckon.
my card is only 2 gb and like fritbrit pointed out that also could be to bad old cpu.
So to sum up things is that a new mainboard and cpu and graphic card with 8 gb and hdmi 2.1 and 120 hz will solve this most likely. I bumped my car about a week ago so that is always welcomed surprize!
Could this be ok or should I be aiming for even better cpu and graphic card. ( ram and mainboard is not that important in all of this right or should I pay attention at something there also. I list it up below.
I am still uneasy about this stuttering and I pray to heaven that when I upgrade it will all be perfect.
also a small question about the screen monitor. frame drops and presentation glitches is what I need to monitor(most important).
and are there other tweaks I should try out in nvidia panel , madvr , red october hq.
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600G 4,4GHz with Wraith Stealth Cooler , https://www.netonnet.no/art/datakomponenter/prosessor/amdsocketam4/amd-ryzen-5-5600g-44ghz-with-wraith-stealth-cooler/1019313.13682/
Card: GEFORCE RTX 3050 VENTUS 2X 8G
Maingboad: ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS https://www.netonnet.no/art/datakomponenter/hovedkort/amdsocketam4/asus-tuf-gaming-x570-plus/1011990.13679/
Ram: Kingston Fury Beast DDR4 3200MHz 2x8GB https://www.netonnet.no/art/datakomponenter/internminne/ddr4/kingston-fury-beast-ddr4-3200mhz-2x8gb-kf432c16bbk216/1020626.11118/
please let me know it there are any weaknesses in my choicees.
Thank You Jim ,Hendrik , jimone, fitbrit, terrym,
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I tried JRVR one more time. just ticked hdr passthrough and in advanced I ticked allowed delayed hdr peak detection(I have ticked this also last time) and together with synching hz and frames in display setting. I have only tried the two movies covenant and martian. And Yes now it was better better than ROHQ.
the stuttering is almost gone now. That was a pleasant change . At last.
Thank You Guys and jimone for that tip. now it worked. I was reluctaned to use it this time because last time it looked like JRiver did not respond to changes afterwards. But now it was succesful. And I did not do anything different than last time because I dont know what to do with all these options.
This was very relaxing for me. Thank You.
I hope this will work as I try other movies too.
UPDATE: Now it is making stuttering again. and when synching fps and hz, then it the stuttering it more like edge of the moving object hangs a bit(like slower stuttering, probablay due to it is 23 hz). Think I may have to watch some TV and use the TVs apps to see if it is happening there also.
Something has happened when chose to try out if the graphic card could manage 4k hdr and 120 hz, which resulted(the accident that made the problems) in that even the TV lost its settings and changed form 'movie maker' picture setting to 'eco' and the Tvs format changed to and I got a smaller picture with a black stripe on each side. Then I corrected that, but are experiencing stuttering and at seldom a very short hangups on the moving object. I rerun the scene and it is better. so it seams to be changing a bit from time to time. I wrote this post because I suddenly could watch The martian with Jrvr and synching fps and hz. and then nextime it did not work. I dont think there is much more to do.
(back when the accident happened the graphic card was overclocked using Msi afterburner, I used the automatic overclock in Afterburner which, I did not do it myself, so I thought that was safe. After the incident I tried to reset the card, but it wouldnt using Msi Afterburner, I had to use Xtreme Tuner Plus, which I downloaded when I had the graphic card installed in my new(office) pc, which by the way is also experiencing much of the same problems I believe( it is not quiet stuttiering but motion is not normal not smooth motion. I also bought a new Inno3d nvidia gt 1030(tried on both PCs), which I now have returned because it did not make any difference). I now have the old graphic card on my office pc( a sappire radeon hd 5450). I am now on my office experiencing when I scroll up and down on a website is a bright 'white'tale i behind the text and such. I think I would remember this if I had this promblem before, but now I am not 100 persent sure about this last problem(an operator had the same on her pc when I called to check if my internett was ok. But the focus of course should be on my Tv desktop which I know have stuttering problems after the 'accident'.
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I now was in contact with my fiberinternettprovider, Altibox for a second time. And this time the saw that the internettstream was error/faulty and this most likely cause stuttering(sometimes hangs a bit and also in rapid motion one can see artifacts in front of the object moving) on my streaming youtube, netflix and so on. They are going to send a technician to fix this problem.
But I have also stuttering on local 4k hdr files played locally on JRiver too. And from what I can see the stuttering looks very similar. And also when I play 1080p movies locally on my other newer pc, which I have also tried on my TV screen while trying to locate the problem.
So my question is, could this error that they discovered also cause JRiver to misbehave also during play?
UPDATE: now he is saying that they can not see anything wrong. They have put me on 48 hour ping monitoring. They are very back and fourth because last time who was another guy said he discovered an error. Very strange custumer service(do they not communicate with each other), I have to say. and this guy that says that they cant find anything wrong now(today) is the same guy that I talked to the first time I contacted them about this problem. The custumer service guy that discover that there was an error, why does they not communicate with him?, They should not suddenly behave like there are no error. He was very clear when I talked to him and this service guy also said that they would send somebody over to fix it and now it is as if that not have happened. I still have more or less the same kind of stuttering on my tv pc and my "office" pc(which is new) and my Tv decoder which is also connected to their router in my electro cabinet. or playing JRiver locally( on one film it is the same type of stuttering and the covenant film does quite good but sometimes have small stutting which look like the same type of stuttering bahaviour, but I thing JRiver does a good job at removing the problem with covenant film, but not martian and other movies.
I have also used a network cable directly from their router and into both PCs to no avail.
And one more thing. two days ago on my tv pc I lost info on my hdd(You know when You choose how you want the files to be shown in the folderscreen, I choose, side by side. and when I view my hdd it only displays hdd D E F G and so on but does not show how much is used which also is shown with red color when it is near full and blue color when it is there plenty avaliable space and also how many gigabyte used and unused). Very strange. I have restarted the pc but still no information. ALSO I am not allowed to enter properties when I right click on the hdd too. (FINALLY FIXED FOLDER/HDD ISSUE BY IMPORTING FUNCTIONAL REGISTRY)
I am writing this so You know this is a very strange case.
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I use JRiver Red October HQ and tick off 3 of the video improvements.
I bought a Msi rtx 3050 Ventus 8 gb. I still have a lot of very small glitching/stuttering on fast moving objects. when In Covenant movie the spaceships pan into the screen it have lot of small stutters and bright parts of the spaceship(sunlight) is shivering when in motion. and no large stuttering or hang ups(wich i never had).
Also people/faces is out of sync in rapid movement. like it is either unsync or to few frames missing making the face unclear and shivering look(this happens very fast and for just a short under second). I have to choose 4096 x 2160 to get 120 hz(here in JRiver I get a smaller screen chopped off on each side, making the screen smaller). If I choose 3840 x 2160(hardware adapted..) I only get 60 hz and the screen get smaller chopped off on each side(in windows screen). I like to use movie maker picture mode. Lgs true motion is off and grayed out. not able to use. I also have used game picture mode to be sure g sync and something called amd freesyng is activated and also vrr working (it said on nvidia experience that my cpu was too weak but in game setting it was set to on and not grayed out.. but also here a feature like true motion pro is grayed out.
And one more thing.. the pc and nvidia panel is choosing not perfect sync because it chooses 119 hz instead of 120 hz as it should. Could this be the cause?
In Nvidia panel vsync is set to on and power usage is set to optimal.
I am beginning to suspect that the fiber are maybe causing trouble or maybe the tv is not functioning as it should.
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It seems that my Msi rtx 3050 ventus 8gb 2x(with hdmi 2.1) determines that I have to choose 4096x2160 when I turn on 120hz to get full screen, if I choose recommended 3840x2160 my screen get clipped off on both sides, making the screen smaller. I have to lower the hz to 60 to be allowed to use recommended resolution in nvidia panel.
when I choose 4096x 2160 120hz JRiver formats the movie-screen smaller while playing a movie. Is there a way of fixing this in JRiver and get 4096x2160 full screen? or else I can not use 120hz.
I hope I made this post understandable.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOv9Y5S1kiY&t=176s
The videolink above. from 2.45 to 2.53 after the iceskater has made her spin there is a glitch/stutter. Can anybody check this. is it the video or just my pc that is making the stutter. It would be very nice if someone can confirm that this is the yt video and not my pc.
also this yt video below from 2.45 paning along the ship stuttering all the way..is it my pc or is the stuttering there embedded in the video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBoP-aKNhCg
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Looking at your latest screenshot ... running at 60hz ... that gives vsync of 16ms ... your rendering times are around 12-14ms ... not much headroom
For my 4k 60 fps content ... i set up such that rendering time are around 7-8ms
Which brings me to next question ... why would you run 23.976fps content at 60fps or 120fps
running 23.976fps content at 23.976fps gives you lots of time for processing between frames
As for resolution ... 4096x2160 sounds like projector ... and of course running 3840x2160 will give you black bars on side (kinda like running 4:3 content on 16:9 screen) ...
personally, i would fit 3840x2160 on screen ... and mask those bars out
alternatively can use projector/TV zoom to zoom in so those black bars are outside the screen ... but then you will lose some pixels at top and bottom
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I just got a new nvidia driver-update. Now I dont have any problems reguarding resolutions. I Am now able to have the recommended 3840x2160 on 120hz.
screen shots attachent. one for ROHQ 120HZ, JRVR 120HZ, JRVR 23.9..HZ. (Note: the jrvr attachments one have to click on the link below the picture download it to view the full pictures)
Video projection looks similar in all three settings. it have small glitches when the ship moves along the screen. but the image of the ship, several parts of the ship light parts and also around the edges there is some shivering/vibration also like a double edges at the front of the spaceship . overall it is not a smooth and controlled rendering video. Could this be due to not good enough quality on the hdmi 2.1 cable?
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Ok I found the same film sequence from Alian Covenant on Youtube. I of course use local file 4k hdr on JRiver. But I see the same problems on this YT sequence. So I post it here for anyone to see and maybe also confirm the observation I do when I stream this sequence.
I see the same problem here. This is Youtube and not hdr. but I have the same problems. I wanted a controlled calm normal rendering which I am not able to get. So I wonder how come I see the same problems here and does anyone else experience this also. What could the problem be?
It is the same problem on yt streaming and on playing local film file. And the same on my 1080p monitor and on my 4k tv. the yt clip is 1080p. You can see in this clip the ship pan into the screen at 7 min and 30 sec and also at higher speed at 8 min and 20 sec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPXBR2mhOjo&t=422s
Problem description here:
when the ship slides into the screen from the right. there is some stuttering or shivering on the image of the ship it starts at at the front of the ship that is entering into the screen(because the motion here is faster) and as more of the ship entering the screen and comes further left into the screen the shivering calms down, because of slower movement. and when the rear of the ships also comes into the screen you see the same shivering effect at the rear engines and as it calms down after it gets further into the screen because of slower motion. Also the bright sunlit parts on the right side of ship are not calm at all (shivering effect), but this also calms down after the ship moves more into the screen and calms down.
I am trying to explain what the problem is and if others see the same thing. and what could the problem be?, since it is both on stream and on JRiver using local file. I know there is a solution to this, becaus when I first started this problem solving using my other nvidia graphic card inno3d gt 1030 2 gb(with gddr 5 memory not 4 gddr). I could then use true motion on lg tv and at 60hz it was not perfect but I was able to turn on 120 hz om ms screen setting forcing the card that way. and then all of this was a controlled image from what I can remember and i thought I made it!! and then it became too much apparently and probably overheated the card and then the "accident" happened which resulted in that also my Lg tv lost its format even and the tv jumped from filmmaker mode to eco mode(which is out of the box picturesetting). nvidia panel vsynch was on and this was on JRiver ROHQ 120HZ. I use this card on my other desktop and pc 1080p monitor now. The card seem to have survived the overheating. when I use my new card msi rtx 3050 8 gb I am not abel to use true motion. I might be bying a gtx 1060 or 1660 6gb and turn on 120hz and use truemotion and see if this is the solution?
Hope anybody could watch the yt link and see if they are experiencing the same rendering effect.
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I watched it. The quality is only OK but I don't see anything I would describe as shivering or distorted.
No JRiver video is involved, as you probably know.
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Ok so the there is no small stuttering/shivering. also when You see the rear engines of the ship pan into the screen, You dont see the rear engines doddering effect which by the way is visible bright lighted(by the sun)parts of the ship as it pan through the screen?. You have a calm controlled rendering of the spaceship image all the time. Ok now I am wondering what all this can be.
I posted this because I see the same thing on my tv and pc monitor using yt link and on JRiver using the local movie file(both 4k and 1080p file)
Ok Thank You, for letting me know, much appreciated!
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Ok so I now think I know what this "stuttering" is. It is a kind of VIBRATION in the picture and it is bad. the rendering is probably ok in ROHQ as well as in JRVR with or without 23.976 hz sync. When I connect a rtx nvidia card which has a 2.1 120hz hdmi port. My tv shut down the feature "true motion". It does not matter if the TVs hdmi is in PC mode or just regular mode true motion is grayed out and not available. This bad picture was always like this with the rtx card.
But when I get to use true motion(Inno3d gt 1030 card or with the RTX card when I use hdmi in standard mode and use JRVR and 23.976 hz sync the full menu for truemotion is available)..the result is never good creating a blur effect inn other senarios. I tried the Inno3d Geforce GT 1030 2gb card in the new PC. This card has a hdmi 2.0b and then truemotion is available. But I just get a bad result either way. When I have true motion on max which is the choice "smooth" I get clear picture like when the spaceship scene or the the beginning of the covenant movie where this human robot moves. But when I get picture with high contrast ..like in the film there is a fire inside the ship and it is dark and there is a fire burning in the background and when this human (Michael Fassbender) with a hood over his head enters the room one see a "glorie" in front of the hood. a blurred out space just in front of the hood. and later in the chaotic scene several actors often close up moving (here it is looks really bad). So if I dont use the max effect which does away with the vibration (looks like stutter and it some stutter also too due to the vibration effect) or I have to use dejudder set to max, which is 10 (1-10).
Now the funny thing is that I saw this movie with the msi card gt 1030 which just had gddr4 memory..but this movie I could watch...and it had nothing of these problems back then( as far as I can remember, but I think I would have noticed but I could be wrong here). And I used truemotion back then without these problems. I think I would definitely have noticed it back then.
Also when I use the decoder (liniear tv) ... I have this stutter or blur effect either way..and I didn't notice it being bad back then. So something has happened. It is either some change in the fibernett or the TV motion handling has caved in and does not function properly anymore or it could be that some cards just work better with LG's truemotion but I think that is not so but who knows?
So this is a neverending story. I regret getting rid of my old plasma now.
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Learned a lot and got to know much more than i have in a long time when it comes to TVs.
Much has changed since the Plasma era (still miss them a lot, the superb and pleasant way plasma presented movies is of great loss) . Well enough of the melancholy. After watching youtube movies and reading ... it looks like I have to ditch my TV in the future. I am broke now so I will have to wait.
I found out that the king of motion handling among oleds is Sony. In this review of the A9 it is stated that Sony are able via their motion handling feature to create a clear sharp motion judder free and also adding fewer artifacts (glorie effect around objects) and also no soapopera-effect. But this is just a 48 inch tv. But this is also better on the A90J which also is avaliable in 65 inch.
At least there is something that is doing this better than LG.
https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-xr-65a90j
https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-kd-48a9-48-inch-oled-tv
here is another test that find that motion handeling is not perfect with the sony. But at least there is fokus on these things and from what I can understand can be dealt with. So things will be better and better when it comes to different difficulties when it comes to motion problems in different scenarios.
https://www.techhive.com/article/579248/sony-bravia-xr-master-series-a90j-review.html
I also read on forum that some say that Sony is better but not that of a big difference. And also this "glorie"/blurred out space around moving objects is probably the same when motion handeling is used.
Update: Today there is lot to be done to stutter and judder on oleds. So the future for solving this is "motion mapping" where every scene has preplanned solution when it comes to motion, which is under way(probably years). Yes sony is the best choice, but it is not perfect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao3c7EZ19Qc
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Oled performance is horrible on old content on youtube. major stutter/glitches every second when paning is involved. Tried to use theater view to watch it in JRiver but got same result. I have truemotion on with dejudder at 6. and hz set to 59hz on the tv. Looks to me that Oled are very underdeveloped technology. never any good solutions only bad ones.
Oled are suitable for gaming not watch movies or old documentaries like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERMpsVN98G4 look at 9 min 38 min and just look how awful paning is over the map shown in the documantary. Makes one get sea-sick of watching such awful handeling of youtube. same but not that bad on many netflix movies series. Oled are actually not suitable for all round video watching and should never have been released on the market. I is that bad.
also look at 12.05 and watch a few seconds...unbelievable how crap this rendering is. Maybe this youtubevideo is just very bad. but netflix movies and series are bad(even truemotion is not solving it).
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I don't think your problem is the display. Your video sync is wrong. I don't know why, but try a Google search to learn.
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There are no solution for oled. There is not a general setting for all around usage. and even if one set the hz to 23.976 hz in windows before watching lets say Erin Brochowich in HD at neflix. and set true motion at dejudder at 6. The result is not good. hang ups and bad rendering and judder/stutter. and also movies in very dark scenes are horrible artifacts(black crushing), cracking ut the picture. So oled is not that good for people that use it for videos/movies, 24p videos.
I watched Covenant and this movie the use of camera is very good but there are scenes that is fast and one see problems immediately. I am not so sure if this is going to be solved on this technology at all. And it is also like a religion. tv test gives this at most two three lines. Because this is the achillies heal of the oled TV.
I have not found any info on the new oled's (2022) for sony and lg, that states that they are better than its previous models, when it comes to judder and stutter and artifacts and soap opera effect on these tv's (Sony A95K and LG C2 or G2).
I am just very disapointed for this new technology and that this would be a problem in 2022/2021 tvs. And from what I have seen on other tvs(Led), they suffer from the same stutter. I don't know what happened but this was not that bad before. Ex my parents' tv suddenly has stutter all the time now and they do not ever touch anything, because they dont know how. So why does their tv have stutter on every series/movie now?
Same goes for my oled TV. It was better when I bought it in november 2021. So something has happened. It could be windows related or internet provider related or both. I know my tvs have performed better, but it always ends up like it is now. The times when my Tv has performed better, I did nothing to make it so. I just saw that it was better and that I could lower the dejudder. So this is my experience, albeit confusing. I recon others don't experience the same as I am, I get that.
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Are you always using streaming (Netflix, etc.) when you see the problems?
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Somewhat counter intertuitively, as display technology gets better, videos will look less smooth, as their pixel response gets faster, and they produce less blur during presentation.
This is a result of movies and shows only being 24 frames per second, which is barely enough for a fluid image, and relies on image retention both in the display and our eyes to become more "fluid".
OLEDs have a much better pixel response time then eg. LCDs had, which makes them much faster and "better", although you will notice the image judder from the low frame rate more. Motion Interpolation and de-judder settings can help here. Also just increasing the brightness can help, as it then results in more image retention in your eyes.
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Netflix, youtube is worse yes. Watching movies on JRiver is better but also there it can produce stutter and judder when things go fast. And also as I mentioned when the Tv was behaving better I did not have to sync hz and fps, I could use 120 hz and Red October HQ. and use truemotion to settle things, dejudder at 5 or even 4. two days I discover this after january. and the next day back to how it is now. I can watch movies no with JRiver, I hope. Need more testing. I have only tested two movies now. I am building a new Deskstop. All my movies are on the old poorer desktop which I dont have connected to my Tv anymore.
also terrible are dark objeckt in motion with brigth background, the edges get crushed and/or vibrate ( like the opening scene, Alian Covenant movie. Same goes for very dark scenes and black crushing(objects/edges loose their natural look and get crushed edges. These two problems dont have any fix that I am familiar with.
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I have also LG OLED. I have a lot of Concerts with fast moving dancers. I have no issues with Micro stutterig. When I started with MC, I first did upscaling to 1080p and then let the OLED upscale to 4K – that created some Micro stuttering. So I let MC do the upscaling. Everything was fine.
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Manfred. I dont know how one choose between Tv or MC to do the scaling. Anyways I have good picture also, but it is the overall handeling I am dissatisfied with and artifacts due to truemotion and black crushing and dark objects in front of a bright background and the object start to flicker or get a virbrate effeckt.
Old movies like Erin Brochowich and other is bad and have flicker stutter and also just bad picture quality. this is probably due to scaling like you say. same goes for old youtube docu from tv shows for ex. National geographic(like low resolution videos). high res videos on youtube are also unstable. one time it have stutters and other time it is smooth(on the same video/film).this is due to one time nvidia driver install or driverversion is better or worse. I dont think it is due to a worse driver though but more to it I am lucky with the driver install or not. I now use ddu to uninstall nvidia driver in safe mode and also started to debloat nvidiadriver before install. I have done this two times now. first time I got a good install and almost no stutter on a 4k youtubevideo of Greece scenery video. and did the same when there was a new nvidia driver, but then I got stutter again. So to me I have never experienced such uneven result from time to time. Its like everything is more unstable now then before. Why I dont know.
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Hmm.. automatically switch to hdr mode when starting playback(recommended) is not working. I dont get the hdr logo.
I have to also tick the other option "use the displays hdr capabillity for hdr videos (if available)" to get hdr logo.
(from the wiki jrvr: Automatically switch to HDR mode when starting playback (recommended)
When playing a HDR video, the screen needs to be in HDR mode to handle the video - JRVR will automatically enable this mode as required). JRiver should turn on this mode when on initiate a hdr movie and logo will appear? Yes? This is the recommended setting.
Use the display's HDR capability for HDR videos (if available)
Enabling this option allows JRVR to pass HDR content directly to a HDR capable screen, making use of the HDR functionality in the screen to improve the dynamic range. (this is not recommended because JRVR does this better on its own, right? If it tick this option also..either both JRVR and the tv is doing the prossessing either that or this option makes the TV do the entire prossessing and not JRVR. both cases is not recommended. Right?
Reguarding windows 11 pro, I only have licences on win 10 pro, so I installed this than upgraded the pc to windows 11 pro through windows update. I Am now considering to buy a key licences of windows 11 pro. Anybody recommending this or is the update through windows update just as safe? anybody have any experience on this?
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I have also LG OLED. I have a lot of Concerts with fast moving dancers. I have no issues with Micro stutterig. When I started with MC, I first did upscaling to 1080p and then let the OLED upscale to 4K – that created some Micro stuttering. So I let MC do the upscaling. Everything was fine.
Manfred, how do I make JRiver do all the upscaling?
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(1.Hardware accelerate video decoding when possible
This option allows certain video processing operations to be offloaded to the GPU (Graphics Processing Unit), reducing demand on the CPU.
Bitstreaming
This option allows setup to send the encoded audio data stream directly to the sound device. Selecting this option will exclude use of many of Media Center's audio processing capabilities.
2.VideoClock
This option enables VideoClock which is a key part of Media Center's solution to smooth video playback.
For more information see VideoClock.)
I have an rtx 3050 and cpu i5 12600kf. These two options above 1. and 2. should always be enabled for best/smoothest 23,976 rendering? Or are there scenarios where these is not needed, like a good cpu and graphic card.. ( I recon 1. should always be ticked so that gpu does most of the job and do it better since gpu is very fast).
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I have read about the videoclock. when I get the option in windows to choose 23.976 hz, this is only possible if the tv supports it, I recon. From what I have seen all movies are 23.976 fps. when I have display settings mode change set to on. both movie and hz is synced. Hence no need for videoclock activated. Is this accurate? Does videoclock smooth the video even more if activated? So that it is recommended to be on for supersmooth videoplay. so is both display sync and videoclock recommended for the smoothest video play? less chance for stutter and microstutter?
Update on videoclock: videoclock is syncing the audioclock and videoclock, which is needed to avoid framedrops and repeated frames. To get away with stutter and shimmering and or vibration effect of objects in motion..one need to activate the tvs interpolation, which is Lgs truemotion(located under the clarity setting under picture setting.)
I know that having it on is a good thing if one plays a lot of different content from what I understand.
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It's described here:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/VideoClock
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Thanks JimH, I Have read it. Still I am not quite sure. From what I understand, this videoclock is useful only if there is deveation between fps and hz, but the "display auto refreash rate changer"(in displaysetting set to automatic) does exactly that. Is it so that this videoclock make this even better and thus more super smooth? Or is it only when the displayrate is 24hz and the source is 23.976 fps and the clock correct the small change( is it only in such cases the clock is useful or does it also ensure smoothnes when there is no deviation, thus recommended always activated to get smoothest videoplay?
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The monitor refresh rate is often not 100% accurate, and small deviations can still result in regular stuttering - although typically something like once every few minutes, and not all that much more often.
VideoClock can compensate for this by adjusting the audio to match the refresh rate.
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Thank You very much!! Very helpful. So I read this is very recommended for Madvr to get smoothest video or JRVR renderer.
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I suddenly got less fluid videoplay small stutte her and there. so I changed back to JRVR. but it did not help. I checked Ctrl + j and it showed lots of frame drops. Se att. picture. It says window. Am I at a window mode? Could this window mode be the cause.how do I get away with this window mode. I have to pause to be able to activate ctrl + j.
I have both videoclock and gpu decoding enable in videosettings.
hdd has good health and I use a local video file.
do I need to reinstall windows again maybe?
update: I can not see that I am in window mode. I have clicked on the square upper right corner and all corners are filled out. I now suddenly dont have to pause to use ctrl + j. everytime I start a movie inital get about 50 frame drops. I tried disabeling videoclock but same result.
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Have you configured Windows Defender?
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114101.0.html
Uninstall any other antivirus.
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Yes I have gone through the whole list of exeptions and then some.
Reinstall windows 10?
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Drops during startup are normal and should usually not be a concern as long as it stops increasing.
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yes there are many framedrops when one start the movie and then it continue. I have not measured it, but from what I can remember it was a few here and there as the movie progress. it looks like it happens when small stutters appear. and there is not a lot but there are more than it used to be. so more small stutter here and there and that looks to be the framedrops when that happen. so it is watchable but there are more stutter in difficult scenes. so when these scenes happen there is a bit more stutter and also on scenes that used to be ok more or less. it just a bit poorer performance. it used to be a tighter performance.
when it was ok it I only had ticked of " use hardeware decoding when possible"(using the gpu for processing). so I tried videoclock on madvr and now it is poorer and also on jrvr. even when I untick it.
I have feeling that when I try just normal setting like this sooner or later it is messed up. fragile somehow
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Are you using any other antivirus software?
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No no just windows.
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my regular type ssd(systemdrive) showed 95 percent on health status last time I checked. use crystaldiskinfo. too many formating are not very good for ssd that is why is at 95 % already. bought it 3 - 4 years ago.(which I do everytime i reinstall windows to be sure it is clean before installing. I remove all partitions and delete them and format what can be formated and then delete partitions and then install os.)
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when I play the alien the covenant I think it is a bit darker than last time I played it. some times ctrl + j dont work.
when the rendering was at it tightest( very little stutter. was more fast and fluid. It is not that bad but it used to be better tighter and more smooth. and sometimes I get a stutter several seconds after I hit play.
now some scenes are similar and others are performed poorer so it is not on every scene a problem. Also at one time it was Very good on madvr I had no repeated frames or framedrops. it was overall better and more stable. now it is easier get a stutter). I am not satisfied because it was better. But it is a small difference. also after I play the same scene I want to check stutter it can do better than last time. and that without doing anything then replay the scene. strange.
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delete
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I now will have to see if there is difference in other things like netflix youtube..if I see poorer performance there too,
( there are no videoclock to correct things on these platforms. The rendering was ok before so I hope that is the case now also) there is something wrong elsewhere. If that is so...a clean install of windows is recommended?
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delete
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videoclock makes it better. I had something running in the background. I have closed it. It might be a bit better now, but not sure. but have to see more movies now to check.
Also:
when I initiate play... it starts to play and after some seconds I get a stutter and then it renders on. this happens several times now.
also when I play a scene ...it was not performing quite as good as I have seen earlier..I then play it again it is better. and maybe next time is not evenly good. this could happen when i watch for some minutes...and I come to a known difficult scene...it performes poorer and then I stop and play it again it performs be better. This is what I mean was better before..more stable. but I am now talking about just a small difference in performance in the scene.
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You will see some frame drops/repeats on startup and maybe on a seek. Bring up the JR OSD, and press Ctrl+R that will "reset" these counters to 0. For testing, keep the OSD up and leave the movie play noting down how (if any) drops/repeats appear:
- is it 1 ever xx seconds/minutes
- is it a bunch all at once (and if so do you notice the rendering time blow out)
- some other pattern.
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Thank You jmone. I have uninstalled JRiver and removed the nvidia driver with the DDU safemode procedure and did a clean install of nvidia driver(latest same driver). Then installed JRiver. Did not touch a thing in settings other than change to auto mode changer in display settings. and changed to Madvr in video mode. No videoclock or hardware decoding when possible is ticked. Other changes is in Nvidia panel, like battery at max, vsync on, triple buffer on and uncheck gsync to be able to use LG's truemotion (also have to change hdmi mode from pc mode to standard mode or theater mode) which I have to have dejudder at 7 and bfi at low and sharpness at zero and turned off most things like energy savings and ai settings.
I have not tested it that much and I am leaving to my Parents' cabin this weekend. But I will try Your procedure. What I can say now is that it looks to be performing a bit better, but I can not tell how good at this point (again this is with the above change). I have not tried JRVR yet. When I now play Alien Covenant the movie is not that colorless making it appear darker. So my earlier comment about a darker movie was correct. So there is a change now. Also this has happened earlier also and I don't do anything out of the ordinary, only known changes in settings. I think I have written about this experience earlier in this thread. Hope I that this did it and I can avoid reinstall windows.
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I checked a 4k sdr movie batman begins. after 10 min I got a 1 framedrop. I touched the mouse and got 2 framedrops. After I stop touching the mouse and after many seconds(30 seconds) I got a new framedrop and I could clearly see a clear stutter. This is in line with what I have experienced. after touching the mouse I get a framedrop and stutter at 30 second.( I probably notice it because of motion was involved harder to notice otherwise).
OR could videoclock an/or hardware video decoding when possibel be of any help when it comes to such things like framedrops /repeated frames?
update: videclock and hardware decoding does not help. I got even got more framedrops with both ticked compare to without them ticked. when I got framedrops I got one or two simontaniously and sometimes one notice it as a stutter and sometimes not(could be that it easier to spot if motion is involved).
Also what is a consistent framedrop is after I use mouse and click on the panel( I usually got some framedrops which is normal I guess). But excactly 30 seconds later after stop using the mouse. I get a framedrop which I always see a stutter(here could it also probably be esier to see if motion is involved). 30 seconds. strange.
Update 2: comment above in this post are the use of Madvr. Now I switched to JRVR(no videoclock or hardware decoding when possible is ticked/in use) and I just watched 10 - 15 minutes and no framedrops or repeated framedrops. only when I touch the mouse I get 2 or 4 drops. But also here I get 1 framedrop after I let go of the mouse, but here it happens after 13 seconds(which is not that annoying than 30 seconds). I happens at the excact same second count every time.
update: used madvr for 10 15 minutes behaves the same as jrvr..no framedrops or repeated frames or glitches. this is of course without videoclock or hw decoding when possible in use. looks to me that videclock does a disservice to the rendering. I recon this should not be like this and videoclock is supposed to make video even smoother.
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Do you have any software installed for your mouse?
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No I have not installed mouse software.
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I did not have so apparent stutter when I used mouse and panel on JRVR and on madvr I think I did not have a framedrop also. And also this stutter at 30 sec at JRVR and at 12 -13 sec at madvr is also a new problem. I really want it be better. at least the stutter at 13 sec and 30 sec. Or have anyone heard or experienced this before? what could it likely be? any suggestions..maybe buy a new clean ssd disk? Could this be disk related?
This started after I did change to or three cpu settings in bios(which I mentioned earlier)(asrock z690 rs pro)(cpu i5 12600kf). I did reflash bios and also resetted bios(forgot how now, it is a uefi default in bios and a restart) but this stuttering(13 sec and 30 sec) happened after I tried these cpu settings. . There was a little stutter when using the mouse and panel on jrvr, but after this it got worse on jrvr. I did not use madvr lately that much because it was poorer performance and this 30 sec stutter was not there before.
I am also going to try to play whole movies to see if there are any framdrops at all during a movie on both jrvr and madvr when not touching anything. I hope I am able to test this this week.
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is a deviation clock at 0.05 or 0.07 very high?. It looks to be poorer performance now than yesterday and I can see it on on movement on the motions in the movie. no framedrops. but when I touch/use the mouse today I it is even worse even glitches and I think the picture hanged but did not result in glitche count.
now again when I play the movie covenant it is dark colorless again. than I played it again some minutes later than it was normal again.
All of this is very strange. looks like something is messed up and are unstable or something. I dont know what to do anymore. I dont think a reinstall will do it as I just did it two three weeks ago. nothing works as it should. But VLC is also preforming poorer..it is more stutter and this is on sdr even. It used to be smooth.
I have never experience so much bad things. I almost suspect my system is a targeted by something. because when I reinstalled driver and JRiver on last friday it was very good( the stutter at 13/30 sec was probably there but I dont know that for sure now. and now on sunday and today it is problems again.
and watching batman begins on hbo max(on opera browser) it has more tiny stutter, the performance is better when I play the movie on JRvier(local file).
youtube also have a bit of stutter now.
is jitter at 18 and ping at between 30 and 50 good enough for 4k youtube streaming? internett speed is ok 100 up and down approx. but it was very strange because when I first tried it..the jitter was much higher and ping at 70 but internett speed was 90 up and down was approx 70. and then later it was better. I have a feeling a lot crap is going on in these corona times we live in ...a lot has been worse and strange...I think all these problems are not normal. there is too much unstability one time it is good and then some time later it is worse. I reinstall drive an jriver and it looks better and then next time it is suddenly worse. This is not normal at all.
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I don't know what we'll learn but try running MC's benchmark (under the Help menu) and paste the results here.
Then take a look at Reporter under Services and Plug-ins in the tree.
Frame drops in the first few seconds are normal.
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ok I dont bother with the framedrops that are initial or the use of the mouse. but it is strange that the hickups stutter is suddenly worse when one use the mouse also. and there is stutter at 13 sec on jrvr and 30 sec on madvr.
I shall run the benchmark. this I did not know about.
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Problems like this are hard to solve and often turn out to be something odd. A power supply, for example.
Take a look at the "Weird Problems" thread in my signature for a long list of such problems.
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Thank a lot for helping out. Funny You should mention power supply. the power supply was the only thing I did not buy new. it is 700 watt silent version from cooler master from 2010.
here is the report. I just clicked copy and pasted in a note. was this correct?
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Yeah.... it could easily be the PSU. At 12yo it has had a good life and they degrade over time... leading to all sorts of weird things.
Single drops/repeats at specific intervals are drift between the CPU and GPU clocks that checked Videoclock will fix (note: Videoclock only works if your audio is set to Decoding, not Bitstreaming). 13sec (or there abouts) is a very common interval using older nvidia drivers on 23.976fps material. For me it was certainly improved to about 50min on the latest drivers. I don't know why it would be different however between JRVR and MadVR (I would have thought it would be the same).
Anyway, the first thing I would do is get a new PSU into that PC.
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Thank Your for helping and advice. I will purchase one in the near future!
The videoclock did not help for the stutter at 30 sec with madvr. Audio was set to "bitstreaming: none (recommended)".
Maybe I did not understand you correctly. You say that older nvidia driver can produce 1 stutter after approx 13 sec. after starting movie play and latest driver one get the stutter at 50 minutes? I would think to get a stutter at 13 sec is way better than have to wait and get it at 50 minutes, wouldnt You say? And I use the latest nvidia driver and not an old driver.
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jmone one question. the other option "hardware video decoding when possible". Is this useful? I have an Intel i5 13600kf and a msi rtx 3050. This allow to use of the gpu when possible for decoding video. what are the benefit here?
should I tick this with this cpu gpu combo or have it unticked. when should one use this feature and what are the benefits.
Also I often does not get the OSD up when I type ctrl + j when using Jrvr. What to do to get it working.
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Also I often does not get the OSD up when I type ctrl + j when using Jrvr. What to do to get it working.
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Check "Hardware video decoding where possible" - MC will then use the 3050 for decoding (else it will use the CPU)
If Ctrl+J does not come up it means that the MC/JRVR window does not have "focus". Click anywhere on the image then press Jtrl+J
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I don't know why it would be different however between JRVR and MadVR (I would have thought it would be the same).
Power supply.
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Thumbnails 46%
Build all thumbnails. It's in Options.
You have a very high JRmark. 8300+ Are you overclocking? If so, don't.
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I played local file Batman Begins hdr 4k using Jrvr and when I dont touch anything I did not get framdrops or repeated frames or glitches. only when I use mouse I get stutter and the 30 sec 1 stutter. I played for 30 minutes. So that is good it seems. now the rendering was good when i watched the movie.
JimH No I Am not overclocking. But as I said I did change some cpu settings in bios back in may or june or so. I cant remember excactly what I did. but after this stutter became worse when using mouse on jrvr and that was probably when the 13 sec stutter came or madvr 30 sec stutter came. As I said I did reset bios to uefi default in bios settings in my asrock z690 with alderlake i5 12600kf. Alderlake intel 12th gen. is using something called e core(efficiency cores). It has 6 powercore and 4 e cores (a hybrid cpu, I think that is what is called). And I read that Windows 10 schedular does not fully how to use these e cores, but Window 11 does. but this was a comment on a forum that was from 6 or 7 months ago. It could mean that this also could be fixed now by Microsoft. But I would not bet on it, since Microsoft is poor at things like this according comments I read.
I dont know what high thumbnails mean. Could it be that some e cores are being used instead of powercores( because of bad win 10 schedular as mentioned) and because e cores are not powerful the cpu works at high speed on these e core which are actually meant for light task operations? Are there any cpu settings in bios that I should check?
If my explanation could be on to something( I understand that the schedular is deciding what task should be adressed to which cores)
I could maybe try to disable ecores in bios and run a new report?
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Just ordered a new psu. But does anyone know if ssd 2.5" could cause issues like I am experience? kompatilbel issues? or are ssd 2.5" normally rock solid?
I read that corrubted files are recon as the most common problem.
"SSD Data Corruption can Cause a Drive to Fail. Thus, Leading to Loss of Data. Solid State Drive failures can stem from bad sectors or virus damage. Also, expect SSD failure from short circuits and corrupt data"
If this is the case will a format correct this or must one buy a new disk?
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We don't see many SSD problems and your problem is erratic, not repeatable.
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Only 46% of your thumbnails have been built so that could be going on in the background. Build them all. I think it's in the Tree & View menu in options.
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I think I know how: under tree&view, I click on "build missing thumbnails" and then click yes. Is it this You mean by build them all? What does this do and is this something one do one time and fix?
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Yes. It would eliminate the possibility of that background process being a factor in your problem.
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Ok. I did a new benchmark? JRMark is still high. (version 29.0.81 64 bit): 8178. Does this affect performance/rendering/stutter?
Could this be psu related? Or how could I get this to be normal?
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https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=54396.0
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You have a very fast machine, so it's not likely that the CPU or Disk are causing trouble.
=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 1,655 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 2,163 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 0,311 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 0,366 seconds
Score: 4227
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0,160 seconds
Flood filling... 0,177 seconds
Direct copying... 0,280 seconds
Small renders... 0,496 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 0,228 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 0,827 seconds
Score: 10149
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0,050 seconds
Populate database... 0,429 seconds
Save database... 0,067 seconds
Reload database... 0,045 seconds
Search database... 0,703 seconds
Sort database... 0,360 seconds
Group database... 0,463 seconds
Score: 10159
JRMark (version 29.0.81 64 bit): 8178
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That is good. but the JRmark score is 8175 which is high, which is a good score, I understand now. I thought a high score was bad. So Your comment on overclocking was because the score was high, thus suspecting it was due to overclocking which is bad. I understand now as I read in the link that high score the better.
Also I was confused by the different info in the two reports. But that was due to the first was from logging and the second was the benchmark. So I looked at the logging. Thumbnail is 100 percent and is solved as you wrote.
So all is ok now? No more bad info from logging report or benchmark? And I want to ask what I really want know. What does low built thumbnails mean? what does this affect/ what problems could this cause which is now corrected? Updated: I found it low thumbnails can affect movieplay and that is resolve now.
so these reports are a closed chapter now.
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I have done several things so my disk does not spinn up all the time. some in regestry and in services.mcs. gone through som youtube videos turning things off. I dont know is such things can cause problems. I also unticked in property on every disk, allow indeksing of content of filesl..... Should this be turned on and not off maybe?
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You shouldn't need to do that. I think there's something not right about you system: antivirus, video driver, power supply, or similar.
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ok I turned on indeksing again on all disks.
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I should have taken a picture. I just got a message from firewall or was if defender saying that something in JRiver was blocked in firewall. I allowed it on both private and official networks.
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I just checked powersettings in windows. It was changed form high performance back to balanced performance.
But high performance is still the recommended setting when using JRiver for movies and bit perfect audio, right? Or is this not so important anymore?
benchmark was almost similar.
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Any performance setting will work.
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I played though the whole movie Batman Begins twice. First time I got 1 framedropp. Second time which I did today, I got 7 framedrops( I did not see it when it occured, but these 7 framedrops came at the end of the movie. I checked 15 minutes or so and when I checked the movie it had 7 framedrops. There only minutes left of the movie when I checked and saw these 7 framedrop. I highly suspect these came all at once, since it occured within the timeframe of 20 minutes.
What could this be that causing this.
Update: I think maybe what caused the 7 framedrops. it is now 20:10 PM. I Have just stopped the movie a few minutes ago. and then I checked the notification panel at lower right corner and there it was a noti. from windows defender: "summary for windows defender; Microsoft Defender Antivirus did not find any threats since last summary. The unit was scanned 4 times". and underneit the time on the notification showed 19:40. So windows defender has scanned my pc 4 times and the last one was probably 19:40 and that is most likely what cause the framdrop. or could it have scanned 4 times after each other? resulting in 7 framedrops? anyway it must have been this defender scan(s) that cause it. Also could JRiver be the cause why this scan happened during film play? that jriver triggered this or these scans? How to fix this? I have gone through the defender setup. So I dont know what to do now.
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I am going through the defender setup now one more time.
every folder, file and filetype listed was added. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114101.0.html
should I try to find processes also maybe? and also there were more files in the program/jriver folder. should I add everything also license file?
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played batman begins again. this time zero dropped frames. Jrvr and both videoclock and hardware decoding ticked (settings which I used last time too)
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;D
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Good news.
Was it Windows Defender?
Or did you install the new power supply?
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Not installed yet. So these 7 framedrops was created by defender( it must have been) and it happened in a 20 min timespan( at the end of the movie). I dont know why? So what initiated the defender scan...whas it JRiver playing a movie or was it something else that trigered defender to do a scan? What is most likely? I see this happens on occations that a scan is performed. I tend to think this is because something suspisous activity according to defender happened or are occuring, thus the scan. I dont think it was random. I have to say I was surprised that JRiver got framedrops just from a scan and that leads me to lean more on that defender was indeed reacting on JRiver activity and then performed a scan,thus off course JRiver was disturbed by it and it got framdrops from this. When I went through Your defender tutorial, I saw that I had added all files in the JRiver folder. It was 3 or 4 files like the licensing file that was not on your tutorial list. I have now deleted them now from the list. Are these few files not included in the list for a reason? Should these files just be available for defender maybe?
(I have feeling that even with no framdrops the perforamance on Jrvr and madvr vary...sometimes I see more stutter or artifacts around moving objects( often a person or bodypart in motion, on such things one easily detect deviation like an artifact or stutter(not from framdrop but just a oled stutter, to give it a name: and some times overall performance seam less calm and smooth). When the pc is doing poorer I often replay scenes and then it does it better sometimes, but the trend is lower performance, when I have the impression that it doing poorer. I havent paid enough attention to be 100 persent sure.
But Yesterday when I got 0 framedrops I felt it was doing better. And aftewards for approx 30 minutes I also tried with madvr and it was doing better too and I saw that the deviation in OSD which is shown only in madvr was very low 0.0015. I did not observe to much, but this is what I felt from watching the little that I saw. Is this deviation number important or is it just there to show only if it is really bad? lower is better. how low should it be to not to be able to see a change in performance? )
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strange. I ofte detect poorer pc performance when I go netflix on my operabrowser. when I click on the arrow to move the movietitles sideway. I then detect that they hang a bit too much. I then went to the intenett providers spedometer and it showed jitter 18 and and ping at 32 (is this good enough?) and speed up and down was ok. before that I used a two different ones which one show bad upload(not that important ) and ok download and jitter at 18 or so and ms at 40 or so. I ran it a couple of times til I got the result I listed above in this text. and then when it was showing ok, if ping 32 and 18 jitter is ok. I then went to netflix again and then it was doing better, normal not blur or hang when movies moved sideways. This is in line with what I experience with JRiver which I tried to explain in the post above.
Could this be actually the psu that is the one creating this small different performance. since it is so uneaven or unstable. just in a small way, but still maybe the psu could be the actually cause?
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About those 7 framedrops. Maybe that it was not the defender itself that triggered the framedrops. It could be that it was just a notifcation itself that did this when it pop up in the sidebar. maybe any notification that would pop up will create framedrops, because they come up very rarely. I will remember next time I get framedrops.
I did a new check using Batman Begins 4k hdr. This time using Madvr and both videoclock and hardware decoding when possibel enabled. not one singel framdrop.
Now I am going to wait for the PSU to be installed and I will focus on view movies using jrvr and madvr(and maybe with or without videoclock and gpu/hardware decoding when possible)and see if it perfomes good or bad/ stutter or oled stutter to see if is rendering the same everytime. What I wrote about I see a different in smoothnes stutter or artifacts in motion is different at times. This will be my focus now to be sure I am not confused, which I am quite sure I am not. Could just be that it is just the way it is which would be a dissapointment.
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Anything that draws on top of the video windows can cause frame drops when they appear (like windows notifications, mouse cursor etc).
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PSU still not installed. Just tried watching Alien Covenant. Just watching. And it was very good. I also set deblur at same number as dejudder, at 7 (7/7). I got a comment on a Youtube post I wrote. There a guy wrote that de-blur smooths out motion when panning is not involved, like quick hand movements and rapid headturn. In comments on forums on the net, I also read that de-blur was only active in higher framerate content like 50/60 fps/hz. But when I watched the start of the covenant movie in the white room. This was better. I even watched twice and it looked to be a bit better..smoother.
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Reguarding those 7 framedrops and I think it is from the notification message(which is shown some seconds above the movie screen) and not defender itself.
I also saw the beginning of Silence of the Lambs 1080p and it was also very good and tight and better than last time I checked this movie(several months ago).
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New psu installed Corsair RM750 Gold Plus. The 1 stutter/framedrop using madvr after 30 seconds is solved, but not the 13 second 1 stutter/framedrop using Jrvr. The 30 second was more important. I had a feeling they where interlinked but they are most likely caused by diffent issue(which I dont know what is). So the 30 second stutter was maybe solved by the new psu or when updating to latest ..83 build (most likely the latter). :-). Pray to heaven that it is not coming back.
Also one more thing. Yesterday HDR movies started to be colorless when interacting with the mouse and panel. and when one let go the picture is coming back in full color again and now I get a glitch every time instead of one or two framedrops.I get a glitch instead of framedrop. This fading out and in of colors has happened before. Strange. I think it came after I updated JRiver to latest build..83 and maybe it is supposed to be this way. Last time I experienced this it was a bit slow when it switched back to bright hdr picture again. So it is not that annoying as it change fast back to normal picture.
I dont know why it suddenly change behaviour.
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Watched Covenant again using Madvr. the several scenes where the spaceships are comming into the screen are even more fast and buttery smooth. I can not remember that it being this smooth. The difference is small but very noticeable to me at least
. Last time I can remember it being this is smooth is early january or before new year/ christmas, but this is long time ago now too. . It was not bad before this, but has more fluency now.
When I am finnished with all of this. I might have to buy a new gpu. I think it was when I took the rtx 3050 card out of the old Livingroom/TV desktop and wanted to use the card in a newer pc, my "office" desktop to see if I got better rendering.(Amd Ryzen i7 2700x, 16 gb, ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING). First time I used it on this pc I played Alien covenant and the first spaceships scene was awsome. The dept/contrast I saw was very good. I dont know how to get that again. It was a one time and the next day It was like it used to be again. Very strange. I did not do any tweaking when I put the card into the "office" pc. And I did not want to try to tweak to get this amazing picture again. Maybe I will get this if I try higher setting in madvr, but this will ruin the default setting and I have to reinstall JRiver again.
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Could my Pc easily use madvr quality setting? (windows 10 pro, intel i5 12600kf, nvidia rtx 3050 8gb, 16 gb, asrock z690 rs pro). I am not 100 persent sure, but reading quality setting in a jriver post about this, it says best quality settings is for mid range dedicated gpu´s and this post was from 2018. I would say this would qualify?
Does anybody familiar with this setting. Will there be better contrast/picture dept with best quality settings in madvr?(this is what I most want to see).
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madVR questions would be best addressed on the madVR thread on doom9.
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Ok Thank You.
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JimH. The stutter at 12-14 seconds which happens on Jrvr after pushing play, could this be solved next update? Maybe it can be fixed, just like the stutter at approx 30 second on madvr.
By the way the rendering is better on Jrvr than Madvr, less stutter on some certain scenes. It is not huge difference but it is there. I think only a new TV or better gpu or better driver could reduce stutter at this point. It is very good now in terms of oled.
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JimH. The stutter at 12-14 seconds which happens on Jrvr after pushing play, could this be solved next update? Maybe it can be fixed, just like the stutter at approx 39 second on madvr.
I don't think you're seeing a problem with MC. We haven't done any work recently that might affect madVR, for example.
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No madvr is ok now. either the ...83 update fixed it or the new psu. I am talking about Jrvr and a stutter at approx 12-14 seconds after pushing play on the panel. This was not the case earlier. I am not sure when this problem happened. I dont think this stutter should be there. Maybe it is something else that does this. It happens excactly at the same time every time I push play.
Maybe a reinstall will solve this, now when I have a new psu.
or could this be something else interfearing somehow, a installed program.
What could cause this stutter at 12-14 second?
and one question about OSD(ctrl + j). about performance, the peak ms is the important measurement I would say. what is considered to be the limit for safe rendering?
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no frame drops or repeated frames or glitches. still there is stutter in some scenes. So stutter do appear on certain motion scenes. I watched The Batman and I saw this several places and also a car chase where one of the cars sudden jumped from A to B in a very sudden glitchy way, but there were no framedrops or anything.
What is strange is that I also saw the same on a netflix film a short 1 second scene where a guy moves his head/body back away from the stove. I first saw this scene and his head motion stutter(very short scene 1 sec). and the next two times one only get to see that he have already stepped back in rapid glitchy jumpy way. much of the head motion stutter was removed. If I hadn't seen the the whole scene the first time I played the scene, I would not have noticed it so easily that some frames was not shown/missing. very very strange behaviour. Anyways on JRiver stutter in short rapid scenes and even not that rapid scenes stutter appears. Why is that? I have interpolation very high at 7.
also in this thread on post 3, a guy writes that on madvr one can get stutter without any framedrops. The stutter above is when I use JRVR so if it could happen on madvr, why couldnt it also be the case on JRVR?. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,131139.0.html ( from the post/reply 3: "If you have a Nvidia 20xx/30xx video card and you encounter micro stutter while using madVR"). So this is on nvidia 20xx/30xx card which I have. Could it be that nvidia does not handle 23.976fps/hz that well and that amd is better?
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As most movies are rendered at a slow 23.976 fps, the directors try to minimise fast pans to avoid this effect. I'm guessing what you are seeing is simply in the source material and while I'm no fan of frame interpolation I know some like it to try to blur this over. To check, you can pause MC prior to the scene and frame step by Ctrl+Right Arrow (I think that is the combo). Also get a hold of an Ang Lee movie like Gemini Man as it is rendered at 59.94fps as a comparison.
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After work today, I had another try on playing the car scene. I tried several times with and without videoclock ticked and on JRVR and on Madvr, so 4 times/variations in all. and replayed it too. I could not reproduce the glitchy rendering of the car from A to B. Now it was normal like it should be. I highly suspect now that all the other micro stuttering happening without framedrops happening is also gone. I dont want ut see the movie all over again to check. This behaviour that some time it is poorer performance and other times it is normal bahaviour is in line with what I have experienced many times now and this have made it very confusing. I have written about this earlier in this thread also, several times about a change in performance when it comes to stutter problems. It made me confused. Now I know that sometimes it is poorer and sometimes it is back to normal. Still I have not found out why this happens. This irregular behaviour in performance. Very strange.
It mostly small stutter that happens so one see more of it when the performance is poorer. And in very rapid scenes like the car scene when the car suddenly jumps from point A to point B in jumpy/glitchty way(read, worse than stutter but the scene is very short ,1 sec).
Overall the problems I had in the beginning of the thread is better now. This is probably due to a new gpu and pc.
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Now it is worse again. more stutter following with artifacts. Even with truemotion set to smooth, which yeasterday was very good. Very strange!
And it is the same if I watch Netflix or play a movie with JRiver. Very annoying.
Does anybody experienced such change in performance? I dont have much programs installed on this Pc. But does anybody know of what type of programs that maybe can cause this?. I dont think that is the case but I am now out of options.
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Did you ever replace the power supply?
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Yes it is installed.
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You're doing some of this, but the way to find the cause of a difficult problem like this is to, one at a time, change each element. The TV, the video hardware, the driver, etc.
Isolate whether it's related to reading the file or only with its display.
The biggest problem you have is that you're not getting consistent results. One day it works, the next day it doesn't. It's behavior you might expect if you had radio interference from a microwave, or power fluctuations.
I know that you probably know most or all of this, but think about your overall approach to the problem.
And ... I admire your patience and determination.
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Earlier I always got the message " gsync compatibel display is connected". I dont get that anymore. I think it started to not show after a Tv update from Lg. But I dont think that is important, since gsync is not in use while playing movies.
This problem that I am having is not due to JRiver. So maybe it is something in the net, somebody using an application that make disturbence on the net, a fluctuation like You suggested. I live in a flat, could be a neighbour and why it is irregular.
What do you mean when You suggest changing one element at a time. driver can always be updated(but this problem has happened so many times so I dont think a driver could solve this). But Tv and video hardware(gpu), by change You mean buy new one? try a new gpu or tv?
I sometimes have a suspicioun that it could be a bad connection between the oled tv and pc or truemotion itself or something that makes these things not work properly at times.(That lg is not so focused on 23.976 rendering, only gaming, streaming and regular tv use), that they dont go together sometimes. There might be a bad communication between the two.
Update: reguarding fluctuations. I have an expensive "stream toad"(with thick cobber power cord)(cant find the english word for it), but it is for cleaning out fluctuations or clean the electricity in the net to get better audio(they sell them on audio hifi shops). and it costs abit too(400 dollar, but it is old, its german brand T+A is its name. High quality brand. As I understand this is a more static device that I dont think would stop doing what it supposed to do just because it is a bit old) everthing is connected to it, the TV , PC, Bel Canto DAC, Cyrus amplifier and my Sub.
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I have written that I had irregular performance when playing 4k videos on JRiver both madvr and Jrvr. There is more stutter in general while playing a movie. when this happens (more stutter), there is no framedrops and repeated frames or glitches. Everything is ok on the OSD. When this happens(this change in behaviour) it is also applied to Netflix. So this indicates that it is not JRiver. So this could be the Oled TV(LG B1) that is behaving badly, not working properly when it is connected to pc. I dont use pc mode on my TV. Hdmi pc mode dont let me use truemotion/interpolation to to get smooth movieplay in general. But it could also be my gpu(nvidia rtx 3050) either gpu having problem working together with this
Lg Oled model or The TV is the one that have problem when this gpu card is used. It looks to be hardware related. The driver could also be a culprit but I have updated it every time there is an update, so it is less chance that the driver is the problem.
So Yesterday when I watched The Batman ( almost only dark scenes in this new batman movies). I have seen it before, but this time the stuttering became worse and by a lot to it was it was more choppiness than regular increase in stutter. So it was worse. then I stopped viewing the movie. after a while I thought why not try to change the renderer from JRVR to Madvr again. Then I saw that the whole screen reacted like it reset the setting or something like that. then it was normal again. So when I changed the rendering mode on JRiver corrected this issue. I am not certain that this change in performance that happened this time was the same that happened when it get bad rendering at times(or often I should say). but it looked to be very similar only larger stuttering (choppines or tiny glitches).
What to think of this. I am also certain I did this maneuver some months ago and it got better. Any thoughts?
Update: I did not have vsync enabled in nvidia panel. so this leads me to think that when I experience this poorer performance it looks like when vsync is not activated on get more larger stutter choppines stutter. If I had vsync on it will not be that bad. This could look to be the case.
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I went into windows setting through control panel. I chose adminsitrative tools and then device manager( I think that is the name in english). Here one can see all the hardware on the pc. and I went down to and chose graphics card where I find the RTX 3050. I double clicked on it and the properties window for the card came up. I then clicked on the driver tab. And here it says the following: driver deliver is Nvidia and driver date is 21.07.22??? and underneith the driver version (some numbers) is listed and then that the drive is digitally signed by microsoft.
Shouldn't the latest nvidia driver version and the date come up here instead of some older microsoft driver? How do I know that my gpu is using nvidia's latest driver and not this microsoft driver which is listed in the graphics drivers properties?
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Didn't jmone give you some advice on drivers recently?
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He answered a pm once, but that was just that I should not send full range color to lg tv. I cant remember that he has. I went though my threads/posts that I have made and I could not find anything regarding driver and jmone
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https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,133690.msg926054.html#msg926054
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Thank You. I do a DDU driver clean followed by clean install by latest nvidia driver every install I do and I use safemode.
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Latest is not always best
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Did some googling. There is almost nothing on rendering movies and drivers only gaming, gaming, gaiming...My card rtx 3050 was released in january. So I should not look for drivers older than say february or so. I have used almost every driver since I bought the card in february, cant say I experienced any difference when it comes to this problem.
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I interpret that your suspicioun to be a driver issue. I read from your link that logging could maybe reveal what the problem could be. I have read through the link/wiki about logging. Is it so that a loging is done everytime one uses JRiver and only the last two loggings are stored at any time? I am asking because then I could just use JRiver and when I encounter the issue again I would be the present log.
I mean that I only use JRiver when I want to play a movie from local file and I always close up when I Am finshed. So then I could just wait and use JRiver and store the log file when I expericence this flaw and mail it to You.
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I doubt that logging would tell us anything. Your problem is subtle and not reproducible.
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delete
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delete
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Did you ever calculate how much power you need?
https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator
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I did not find the right intel cpu so I chose the best from the pull down and chose the rest of the gear. I got the result 534 watt. I only got to choose a 50 inch monitor lcd, i don't think that matters that much.
I got a 750 watt psu gold edition , so I think I am good!
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Should be OK.
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How about heat? That's a lot of power.
You could try running with the case open.
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I use the mainboard monitor program. Both cpu and mainboard are pretty cool. 38 - 41 degree celsius.
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I read the madvr hdr setting thread(beginners guide) recently posted (very popular post and one get a lot more informed about MC and its use of madvr, very nice). I activated hdr on device/tv in madvr settings and choose "let madvr decide". When I activated hdr settings in madvr it led to that my stated problem about how choppy the movieplay got when using mouse and mc panel(pause and play) got back to what is was. Now it is much much better, very little stutter when I use this. Now it is normal again. And another positive change was that when I changed back to JRVR, this too was much much better on this(which by the way was much worse on the choppiness than madvr was when I had this problem), and also this 13 second single stutter that happened at about 13 sec after using the panel(pause and play) this was also gone. So something was reset or nulled out this problem. So this means that the problem was not the way cpu was working after I tried cpu overclocking. It may have caused it, but the solution was inside MC and not the Cpu or windows. Now that is Solvedl!
But Now when I use JVRV the hdr movie is now darker. I have had this problem earlier too. There is more color, but it is darker. Anybody know how to get back a brighter movie playback/image?
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delete
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I am now using Madvr with very good results. but the stuttering using panel persits and it worse on JRVR like it was before. I now got brighter and more hdr look on picture image again. I think I got this by changing in madvr settings, Devices/lg electronics lg tv../properties. here I changed tv levels from full pc level range to tv levels (16-235). I have changed this before but it did nothing. but now it did.
other things I did to try to get a better stutter free rendering. I set the quality settings to best quality(mid range gpu). and set the hdr settings to , passthrough hdr to display. also set frames in advanced to 2 frames in window mode and exlusive mode.
besides madvr setting I off course ticked on both videoclock and hardware accelarated video decoding.
only thing I miss now is lower brightness on subtiles.
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deleted the previous message as I think the brightness is normal. I also tink I may not have paid attention to the black bars being deep black when I have commented on this on previous posts. it is not that bright but it is not that dark either. When I used tv level (16-235) on madvr settings I got a brighter picture, but I noticed that the black bars was not deep black. Deep black is important to me. So I changed to full levels (0-255). On nvidia panel I have under resolution I set this to tv levels (16-235). I hope that I am now getting more correct colors image. I can not change to tv levels in madvr because as I just wrote..I dont get deep black bars.
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About this sudden non stuttering use of the panel(JRVR or madvr). I found out why it did not stutter. I was because of one click on the button in the upper right corner. I dont know know the english name for these buttons. but the square button next to the kill "x" button. when one have stopped a movie with the stop button these buttons appear on upper right corner. and when one click on the button in the middel, the square button, you change resize MC/JRiver from showing on the whole screen or smaller size with the windows taskbar below visable. And it is the size when not showing the taskbar that allows the use of the panel without any stutter when You start the movie again. Now there might be some drawbacks when it is set in this "position" that I dont know about or havent discover yet. I think maybe it is best to not use this and instead allow panel use stuttering. Maybe somebody know about this being not a good set up. Also when I use the non stutteing setup there is a very very small shiny bit apearing in the very upper right and left corner, which is more visable right at this moment, due to I played with aspect ratio on my lg tv to toggle between on and auto to see if it made any difference and now they are more visable, strange. I have encounter this visablity appear before but I cant remember it allowing non stuttering use of the panel. Maybe it is a bad setup in any way. Anybody familiar with this and can tell me more about what this does and not does or impact it can have in a negative way ?
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I still have uneven performance when reguarding stutter or micro stutter like head movment and on other movement also. This is as I have written before I believe is stutter/microstutter that happens without repeat or framedrops. This varies very strange. But one thing have improved and that is in alien covenant there is very short scene where one see the landing vessel(very small and in the upper screen) is panning over in a white sky. This have often been glitchy or a blury larger stutter or a blury glitch is more accurate destription. This scene looks to be solved some how now. This have often just been good on occations one or two times. Now it seems to be solved I hope. But this is on madvr. On jrvr is better but stll has a glitch.
I have the rtx 3050 and 16 gig ram and a intel i5 12600kf processor. I want to start using more quality settings on madvr or jrvr. I have vsync on and nvidiapanel powersetting at max and all the rest recommended settings for smooth motion video play, like videoclock and hardware accelerated decoding. and on madvr settings I have chosen high quality setting and in advance settings I have set general and windowed mode to present 1 picture in advance. Osd display in madvr show that I have 41 millisecond headroom. So my question is at what level should one be on and not go over to be on the safe side. I now am about avarage 9 or 10 milisecond and max at 11 or 12. Is it safe to be on let say round about 30 ? I almost always play 23.976 hz content. but If I want all around safety and also manage 50 or 60 hz videos too. So on 23.976 hz is there a limit one should be under to stay safe? Anybody has any experience or advice on this? Is it so that the nearer one get 41 miliseconds the more likely one get stutter and even stutter without framedrops too. or is one safe as long as max does not got near 41 milisec?
also I read here:https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013 that amd manage to not go under 10 hour without repeat or framedrop. I often lay on 7 or 8. how important is this? and is it soo that the higher this is and expecially over 10 as is recommended in the thread I pasted which amd is always doing, is this a safety for what? is just one framedrop or is that it is less likely to get messy like stutter and even stutter without framedrop. Maybe a perimeter one how thight this is performing(less chance of stutter and other irregualrities.
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I use C1s for film playback. 23/24p aren't ideal if you can avoid it... It sounds strange but let me explain.
The best result I've had is 119/120hz locked in MadVR (so re-printing each frame 5x, no interpolation) and using BFI on Low or Medium on the display. Filmmaker Mode with calibration for HDR, Dark Room Expert for SDR
MadVR Smooth Motion OFF. Any sort of interpolation or tonemapping on the display off.
I don't really know why 119/120 works better than native 23/24 with BFI but it is what it is. 25fps content should use 100hz (same with 50i).
Also if you're getting weird microstutter, make sure you don't have any GPU monitoring / logging stuff running. I had a persistent issue with Telegraf (which uses Nvidia's SMI monitoring interface) causing a microstutter every 10 seconds when it polled. With the GPU monitoring off (but telegraf still doing it's thing), the issue disappeared.
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Thanks for the advice. Very much appreciated. I am going to try it as best I can. but I have a Lg oled B1 65 inch. and I wonder what "Filmmaker Mode with calibration for HDR". Do I have to calibrate hdr filmmakermode? where do I find these calibration settings on the filmakermode? or do you just mean the regular settings.
and You say 119 or 120 hz...which one do You use most 119 or 120..because I want to find a general setting that just works. I really dont want to go change things everytime I watch a movie.
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Also eve. when You write lock 120and 119 in madvr...you dont mean lock this through displaysetting in jriver? Or in the madvr advanced under devices...I think it is called display mode? and one have to write ex. 3840x2160p120 or just 2160p120( is both these ways of writing ok or does in have to be written in a certain way?
so display setting automatic mode changer shall be set to off then?
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eve this looks very interessting.
-In madvr I set in hdr setting under device to let madvr decide.
-I turned off all interpolation dejudder and deblur to off and bfi to medium.
-In madvr advance setting under device and displaymode I listed up these : 2160p120, 2160p119, 3480x2160p119, 3840x2160p120.
-And also in displaysetting in jriver I set it to custum and for Film 23.976fps I set this to 3840x2160p119hz(I choose 119 since this is 23.976 and not excactly 24 fps which I chose 120hz and the rest in the same maner and 25 and 50 fps is set to 100hz.
-madvr smooth off in madvr
-tonemapping of on the lg tv settings
Is there something I should do differently? because I get a lot of glitches, no framdrops. many glitches ..every second and then may pause and then several glitches ...pause..
I also get a stuttery movement and objects like spaceships having shivering stuttery image/edges.
if this stuttery performance could get even and smooth this would be an idael solution. no artifacts and or stutter
In the OSD the vsync is 8.34 ms, frame 41.71 ms. shouldnt vsync and frame be the same?
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eve this looks very interessting.
-In madvr I set in hdr setting under device to let madvr decide.
-I turned off all interpolation dejudder and deblur to off and bfi to medium.
-In madvr advance setting under device and displaymode I listed up these : 2160p120, 2160p119, 3480x2160p119, 3840x2160p120.
-And also in displaysetting in jriver I set it to custum and for Film 23.976fps I set this to 3840x2160p119hz(I choose 119 since this is 23.976 and not excactly 24 fps which I chose 120hz and the rest in the same maner and 25 and 50 fps is set to 100hz.
-madvr smooth off in madvr
-tonemapping of on the lg tv settings
Is there something I should do differently? because I get a lot of glitches, no framdrops. many glitches ..every second and then may pause and then several glitches ...pause..
I also get a stuttery movement and objects like spaceships having shivering stuttery image/edges.
if this stuttery performance could get even and smooth this would be an idael solution. no artifacts and or stutter
In the OSD the vsync is 8.34 ms, frame 41.71 ms. shouldnt vsync and frame be the same?
I'm very confused. You've definitely got something weird going on here.
Your screenshot looks essentially like what mine does (just without all the extra upscaling steps) and the frame times / vsync time is correct.
I do not need to set / touch the JRiver display settings so maybe you should turn all that off?
HDR Filmmaker Mode is just one of the 'profiles' available as a base (like Vivid) in general, at least on the C1 it's the closest to 'accurate' for HDR, especially once you play with settings.
Also you have a B1? Can that even accept 4K120 at 4:4:4 over HDMI 2.1? You don't have any fancy scaling enabled so like the 3050 should be fine.
If the B1 does support a 4K120hz 4:4:4 signal, then I'm leaning towards something on your computer.
Can you try a temporary fresh windows install on another drive with just Nvidia drivers and JRiver installed to rule out an OS/Software issue?
EDIT: Try MadVR 'exclusive mode' unless you've already tried it and your screenshot is from when you've had it windowed or whatever.
Display Mode settings in madVR should just be: "2160p120, 2160p119" for now. Lets get 4K 23/24p stuff working to start.
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It is very kind of You to help me. Yes there is something strange and I have done so many things. new installation of windows three time if I am not mistaken. At this time I dont think I want to go through all of that again. Is it impossible that it could be the TV and its performance?
yes b1 has hdmi 2.1 and 120 hz...what is 444? is this what one can choose in nvidiapanel instead of rgb?
And what is exclusive mode? I see there is a setting in madvr that deals with that. but how does one enter it or use it?
I saw here at jriver that somebody just mentioning it. but I have never understood what this is or how one use or enter it. it.
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think I found out what exclusive mode is...this can be ticked in general setting in madvr adv. setting. use exclusive mode instead of direct 3d 11.... I unticked this and ticked exclusive and tried playing a hdr movie...it blinked in black many times and color was washed out.
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That's normal for it to blink black and the colors washed out for a sec. Try moving your mouse into the display window (possibly clicking it), or mousing over the OSD and back off to the display area.
The "right" way to do HDR right now is having windows ignore HDR and instead using madVR to trigger the nvapi to switch to HDR. This causes the weirdly washed out colors when focus is lost or the video player display surface isn't the 'top' item (if that makes sense)
If it still is weirdly washed out and you can't get HDR to activate, perhaps you do have something running that's causing problems here...
You have HDMI Deep Color turned on, on your LG correct? (I know the C1s require it to get 2160p 10bit 4:4:4 120hz input). Please confirm in a service / info menu if the input is actually running at your intended rate.
-Quick info: Mute 3 times
-Resolution Overlay: Green Button 8 times
-Override: Picture>Picture Mode Settings Type: 1113111
-Check: HDMI Diagnostics Settings > channels Then hover over “channel tuning” and press “11111”
This is applicable for the CX and C1, may also work for B1, if not do some googling.
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You are rigth I think there something weird here and as I have known or suspected all along.
when I tick both exclusive and 3dDirect 11 on..i get the color back. but I still got those glitches and black blinking. and also when I only have exclusive on but then very low brightness colorless and also black blinks and glitches.
tried using mouse click or hover over osd and back on the screen. nothing works. only ticking also 3direct 11 will bring back brightness and colors. but stutters and glitches still happened. I think i got one time better less stutter(only using exclusive checked) but gliches count in osd still counted away. but stutter was gone i think..
tries green 8 times and it showed fixed 120 hz. see picture
- quick info mute 3 times...what should I look for here or check? This I did not know what to check or look for
-i also overrided picture mode typing 1113111. but what should I do here? everything here was on auto and on the bottom is was set to V2.
-so this hdmi diagnostics setting channels. se picture..is it that this is showing 120hz? or is it other things too?..se picture.
I have msi afterburner running to have gpu fan low so I dont have to hear it all the time.
"The "right" way to do HDR right now is having windows ignore HDR and instead using madVR to trigger the nvapi to switch to HDR. This causes the weirdly washed out colors when focus is lost or the video player display surface isn't the 'top' item (if that makes sense)" I dont know how to trigger nvapi. I get the hdr logo when I start the hdr movie on both cased with exclusive checked and also with or without 3ddirect 11. I have madvr set in device-hdr setting to let madvr decide or should I try passthrough hdr to display? or is there anyting else I might not have understood now about your last post.
also displaysettings is off.
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You are rigth I think there something weird here and as I have known or suspected all along.
when I tick both exclusive and 3dDirect 11 on..i get the color back. but I still got those glitches and black blinking. and also when I only have exclusive on but then very low brightness colorless and also black blinks and glitches.
tried using mouse click or hover over osd and back on the screen. nothing works. only ticking also 3direct 11 will bring back brightness and colors. but stutters and glitches still happened. I think i got one time better less stutter(only using exclusive checked) but gliches count in osd still counted away. but stutter was gone i think..
tries green 8 times and it showed fixed 120 hz. see picture
- quick info mute 3 times...what should I look for here or check? This I did not know what to check or look for
-i also overrided picture mode typing 1113111. but what should I do here? everything here was on auto and on the bottom is was set to V2.
-so this hdmi diagnostics setting channels. se picture..is it that this is showing 120hz? or is it other things too?..se picture.
I have msi afterburner running to have gpu fan low so I dont have to hear it all the time.
"The "right" way to do HDR right now is having windows ignore HDR and instead using madVR to trigger the nvapi to switch to HDR. This causes the weirdly washed out colors when focus is lost or the video player display surface isn't the 'top' item (if that makes sense)" I dont know how to trigger nvapi. I get the hdr logo when I start the hdr movie on both cased with exclusive checked and also with or without 3ddirect 11. I have madvr set in device-hdr setting to let madvr decide or should I try passthrough hdr to display? or is there anyting else I might not have understood now about your last post.
also displaysettings is off.
Wait, so you've been running afterburner this whole time? Can you please remove it and try again?
As for your screenshots, everything looks good. You're getting a RGB 4:4:4 120hz signal! So I really am at a loss here.
I dont know how to trigger nvapi. I get the hdr logo when I start the hdr movie on both cased with exclusive checked and also with or without 3ddirect 11.
Sorry for the lack of clarity, nvapi is triggered automatically by MadVR. You're getting the HDR logo popup on your display which means everything is all good. The persistent washed out colors issue is strange. I was a little unclear about your results here though, so with D11 on, you're able to get HDR that isn't washed out or blinking black (even if the video is stuttery) ?
Please please please, try to remove AfterBurner and make sure all your fan settings are normal, this is a variable we should account for and take out of the equation before proceeding.
Frankly I would never have even thought about it other than my own experience with bizarre stuttering in madVR when I first bought my OLED that was only solved by removing telegraf which was polling nvidia-smi (I discovered it because after timing the stutter, I realized it was on nearly a perfect interval and happened to remember that interval matched my telegraf config).
Your issue is super weird but I'll try my best to help you out.
You're at the very least being pretty helpful by posting relevant screenshots and trying to accurately describe your issue and steps taken thus far! That's better than I usually get.
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i replay hdr movie and only ticking for exclusive. yes there is less stutter much less but it is difficult to see with low brightness and all..often brigthness is back one see stutter much more easily. but it sure looks better..but also the blinking all the time and glitches..it was hard to watch/detect stutter...but it was better than I have seen thus far and this is without interpolation and displayseting syncing. so it is definatly better. I am not shure how good and if it is better than syncing and use of interpolation which is the only way I got this in your face stutter..syncing alone is not enough..one had to use interpolating/dejudder also..
I also attach a picture of hdmi diagnostics..this is off course just a still picture. When I watched the hdr movie and watching vrr hz on hdim diagnostics...the hz was changing between 120/119 and even 118.
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i replay hdr movie and only ticking for exclusive. yes there is less stutter much less but it is difficult to see with low brightness and all..often brigthness is back one see stutter much more easily. but it sure looks better..but also the blinking all the time and glitches..it was hard to watch/detect stutter...but it was better than I have seen thus far and this is without interpolation and displayseting syncing. so it is definatly better. I am not shure how good and if it is better than syncing and use of interpolation which is the only way I got this in your face stutter..syncing alone is not enough..one had to use interpolating/dejudder also..
I also attach a picture of hdmi diagnostics..this is off course just a still picture. When I watched the hdr movie and watching vrr hz on hdim diagnostics...the hz was changing between 120/119 and even 118.
OH. Okay, you can attempt to disable VRR in the Nvidia settings. On my desktop display (C1 48) I use VRR, for the display in the theater room (C1 55") VRR is disabled. VRR still has issues with near blacks 'flashing', it's mostly minimized by not allowing VRR for borderless fullscreen / windowed apps (Essentially, it's 'fine' but technically non full screen VRR is a bit of a hack).
Personally, I'm not a fan of interpolation / dejuddering. You may be less sensitive to it VS sensitive to the negative qualities of 24fps content so it's a possibility to try something like that. Frankly I've been blown away by this weird solution to I guess 're-print' each frame 5x using madVR and giving my display a 119/120hz signal. I don't really understand *why* it works better than just allowing the TV to handle 24fps content natively but that's where I'm at. I think if I maybe had like a high speed 240fps camera I could point at the TV I could maybe 'see' whats happening.
Also OLEDs are dark (it's a little overblown how dark they are, especially in a light controlled room, but they're definitely darker than alternatives) so you might need to get used to that but I don't really understand what you mean by 'low brightness'.
Are you maybe speaking about the lowering of brightness caused by the BFI? That's been a little annoying for me but you get used to it. There's a handful of extremely dark parts of films / tv that I've had to turn it off on. Also, OLEDs have power saving and protection features, you should make sure they're disabled and just be mindful of static content. There's 2 options that can be disabled in a service menu which help cut down on the auto darkening 'static image' detection triggering on particularly dark scenes.
P.S: if you're interested in judder free content? There's 2 movies out there with proper 60fps releases. Billy Lynns Long Half-Time Walk and Gemini Man. Both relatively meh movies but the HFR cinematography is really something to appreciate, it's not *there* yet but it's a huge improvement over say, The Hobbit in 48fps which felt very wrong. Long Half-Time Walk has an EXCELLENT battle scene that comes really close to 'working'.
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so with D11 on, you're able to get HDR that isn't washed out or blinking black (even if the video is stuttery) ?: no with D11 I still get blinking(on exclusive and D11 both ticked or either separately) but I get more colors and brightness, like normal hdr image, but with stutter in movement. there is no framedrops detected. But glitches counting regurarly..there can be a pause but only in seconds does it last.
If I could get the result with brighness and color with that looks like stutterfree(in solely in exclusive mode) motion. I tend to think if I get that I would most likely se stutter in the motion...brigthness often reveal stutter in motionscenes. But maybe this will not happen also.
So this blinking black, glitches(both create a messy picture and stutter). but if I could solve this, this would be very interresting to watch.
when I talk of washed out colors and low brightness that it what it is. I know bfi lowers the brigtness, so it is not that. how it is on your screen ...the picture looks the same on D11 and exclusive?
vrr? is that the same as gsync eneabled in nivida panel?. when gsync enabled I am not allowed to use truemotion and bfi. I think earlier I was able to enter only bfi in hdr I think or maybe also sdr...but I defenetly was able to use bfi pro it was called. earlier was several months ago and could also be the other pc that I have with a gt 1030 card. But I am not sure anymore. I just remember there was a time that a certain setting only allowed the use of bfi and not interpolation.
removing afterburner did nothing.
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i also removed asrock tool ASRock Motherboard Utility that allowed fan control and powerperformance setting which i had set at power as in high performance also allowed tweaing of cpu usage and such.
I only used this to set fan control and set it the overall peformance to max. I think it was between eco, standard and power and it was set to power. what this did I dont know excactly but I had to chose one of these three.
also afterburner. I only used this for fan control.
both the removal of these did nothing at all.
blackblinking and glitches persist. also low colors and low brightness. and now I have to hear the fans from the pc. but not the fan from the gpu. when i first tried to uninstall msi afterburner... afterward the card was silent even after restart. but the fans from the pc are noticeable.
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I tried exclusive and D11 together one more time to see. This time I did not get black blinking but the glitches persist and the stutter was there..I think the stutter was better than before but still way to much. but the blinking was gone. this was after I took a pause(went for a walk) and restarted and tried again. so that was a very welcomed surpize.
eve very bad that exclusive dont work and funny too. Because it looks very promising and looks very clean from stutter. It looks very good no stutter.
When You use exclusive..how is motion from large objects to small rapid movement like headturn or handguesture or anyting really. Do you get a smooth motion? Because if You do that is amazing and I also think I had that way back in early january or befor christmas. because in the beginning I used madvr and 120 hz because I thougth 120 hz would be amazing..not knowing source is mostly 23.976 hz. so this 5 pull down was quite good if I remember correctly. And it is very funny how bad motion is with truemotion off. it is unwatchable on my tv. only syncing fps and hz together with dejudder at 7 and bfi at low on hdr and medium at sdr or just use auto. This is the only thing that reduce this mess. but even then there could be movies with stutter without framedrop/glitches/repeated frames. and I have experience suddenly it get more easily stutter sometimes and I dont know why (when I talk of poorer performens/stutter without framedrops..it is sometimes a bit worse and not like a lot. But a lot worse have also happened but then there is something that went wrong and I only use most commen alternations and nothing that I am not familiar with. Very tiresome.
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I get motion that looks close enough to projected film to be happy. BFI does wonders at semi emulating the 'shutter' of a projector. It's the nicest motion I've seen but I *like* 24fps and it's flaws from a cinematic perspective, other people hate it. You keep asking about stutter and stuff but I'm not sure if you're describing something that's a problem or your own sensitivity to 24fps film content.
I don't really have much more to offer in the way of support. I think you'll have to do more work on your own or ideally attempt with different hardware (new GPU maybe?) and a fresh windows install.
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Thank You eve. But there is something strange and I dont think it is me. I bought the MC 30, but does not have any hopes so I dont look forward to it much. I dont know why exclusive does not work. Sad really since the motion from what I Am able to see look damm good. I used to have panasonic plasma and I never reacted bad using jriver. It was smooth as butter and top notch. I never though that much since it just works. Now it is gone. I hear talkheads talking about "true cut" which is going to have perfect motion overall. So this is a down really because 4K took ages to be the norm and still is not the norm for a lot of people. Had I known all of this I would bought a used Panasonic and stayed as long as I could. This stutter thing is odd because my parents have an old sony led tv..and last autum it was very good in terms of motion and is just a 50 hz..and it had a decent performance..now it has much of the same stutter that I have. so something is not as it should be. And I see this in stores also it is overall. It has never been this way. many tvs in stores are led and they all used to have a much better motion before. now it is everywhere. So something is not as it should be and strange as if tech goes backwards. Two years back I was selling tvs. and I have never seen it so bad. Strange that most people does not notice it.
Yes I really like 23fps too and its flaws. But thanks again for helping me and learned something new too. But there is something strange. Yes mabye gpu or fresh install would solve it but I doubt it since I have done it 3 or 4 times now.
Update 24/4-2023: this stutter and sometimes glitchy/uneven motion that I was talking about and also noticing overall(many different tvs). This changes and sometimes it is ok and sometimes worse. I see this om my parents telly. one night it is ok and sometimes worse..and it is not some channel or one movie..it is in general overall..sometimes it is better and sometime it is bad. looks to me it is someting due to the internett(both streaming and liniear tv is through internett now).And one more thing. I always tweak my settings on my tv to see how different settings work(motion setting under "clarity" in LGs picture setting). And what I experienced yesterday at 3 am in the middle of the night. the motion got suddenly very very good. I only used dejudder at 3 and tonemapping turned off and also hdr mode off(toggle off in JRVR)(playing sdr instead). and synching fps and hz in jriver using JRVR. the motion was completely natural and fast and effortless. next day....it was back to the same ackward motion. But skipping tonemapping and hdr mode and using sdr...was better...motionwise and also when it comes to artifacts.
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eve one more question if I May. When you guided me to use exclusive mode and I got black blinking and a picture without brigthness(not low oled brightneess, which I know about). Could this be due to a faulty gpu?
and since You wanted me to use exclusive mode. what is it about that mode..is it that this allow exclusive use as in there is far more likely to have interfearance and problems..normally?
or anybody else could answer me?
also have You noticed when bfi is enabled the peak brigthness setting has no impact at all when setting it to off or high. but when bfi is off...setting it to high the brightness increases...but looks to be "disabled" when bfi is enabled. Just an observation and is probably as it supposed to be.
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Update 24/4-2023: this stutter and sometimes glitchy/uneven motion that I was talking about and also noticing overall(many different tvs). I see this om my parents telly. one night it is ok and other nights not so good..and it is not some channel or one movie..it is in general overall..sometimes it is better and sometime it is bad. looks to me it is someting due to the internett(both streaming and liniear tv is through internett now).And one more thing. I always tweak my settings on my tv to see how different settings work(motion setting under "clarity" in LGs picture setting). And what I experienced yesterday at 3 am in the middle of the night. the motion got suddenly very very good. I only used dejudder at 3 and tonemapping turned off. and synching fps and hz in jriver using JRVR. the motion was completely natural and fast and effortless. next day....it was back to the same regular motionhandeling.
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That could just be limited Internet (or LAN) bandwidth available. The fact that it was much better at 3 AM suggest Internet bandwidth.
Anything that could limit the data received. Antivirus, for example.
I think you're saying that you're viewing content via Internet. Is that correct?
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No this is a local 4k file that I always use when testing out different settings on my tv(interpolation) or jrivers JRVR hdr settings. When I download a movie sometimes I get full download speed which is 100 Mbps when seeders are good enough. And the test-speedometer is showing that it is ok. I have done the taming of defender procedure and chosen even more folders and files that is suggested. I have seen that this irratic performance of movie rendering is something that I see at my parents tv or my brother´s tv and I have seen it in tv store(could just be motion settings is off) as well. but I concentrate on my parents (which I see often) and my own tv. The very bad rendering and stuttering that I had initially or at the start of this thread, are mostly gone now. But sometimes it happens. It is something interfering and it is not JRiver software. This is very strange and it is not one movie file or tv channel ( I dont' watch so much tv).
Anyways...I have most of the time good rendering now, either with JRVR(highly recommend and which I use) or Madvr. JRVR is unik because, 1.It is very easy to use 2. high picture quality and with low impact on your gpu. I dont know of any other renderer that deliver this combo high picture quality/very low impact on the gpu. (I chose the quality preset and even tweaked a bit more and chose FSRCNNX 8 (advanced upscaling doubling) and under advanced, I chose to untick "Allow HW decoder direct rendering on mismatches size(a qualitytrade for better performance) and also chose jinc on downscaling. In OSD the rendering shows 4.6/4.7 milliseconds which is very good imo(HDR mode). Lgs trumotion, dejudder at 6 or even 5 and BFI off. It is much more smooth and I have less unvanted jerky or shimmering effect on the edge of moving object especially in a bright picture/high contrast senario, like the start scene(white room scene) of Alien Covenant. My gpu is msi ventus rtx 3050 8 gb and I built a new desktop back in may/June, which is updated in OP.
I Am much more happy now than in the beginning of this thread. So there most likely where many factors contributing, like my rtx 3050 gpu was brand new and got better with newer nvidia driver, Bios updates(I read several bios updates mentioning cpu performance and cpu settings), updates on the TVs firmware, and improvements on the JRVR renderer( I noticed improvement after the launching of JRiver 30) and at last one get to know how the features in JRVR and Madvr and picture settings on my tv works and what work not so good.I ended up using JRVR :-). And Madvr has been dead for a while now and dont do any developments anymore and also requires a better gpu. I also ended up on using dejudder at 6 or even 5. Set it to high, one get too much unwanted/unatural motion(the motion itself or like fast motion get glitchy or uneven). with the Lg C2 I would guess I could lower it to between 3 and 5, as C2 did a huge stepp forward in motion processing, truemotion(their interpolation tool/dejudder for 23 hz movies). C2 also got way less artifacts from the use of interpolation, much lower.
The best result I have seen is 5:5 pulldown with only Bfi at low or medium, no other truemotion/interpolation in use and lock JRiver to show 2160p119/2160p120 to force the pulldown and smooth motion ticked off(madvr setting), but I get glitches that shows up in the OSD(glitches I remove by lowering the qualitysettings in madvr), colorless and blackblinking when I use madvr exclusive picturemode setting(which I need, otherwise I get a stuttery and shimering effect on moving objects. So inbetween all the blackblinking...is see superb motion, no shimmering or stutter or microstutter. But I dont know if what I see counts, due to so much is not working as it should (blackblinking and the colorless picture could hide ex. shimmering effect on objects in motion (alien movie)). But I have looked closely and I Am pretty sure it is pretty perfect, as eve wrote earlier in the thread. That said, I Am very satified with what I get by using JRVR. I used to use dejudder at 7 and that even did not do it for me sometimes. Now I use only 5 or 6 or just choose natural motion choice in truemotion. Also the artifacts are less visable too( I aslo think Lg has got better interpolation implemented in their truemotion software through firmwareupdates). Thumbs up for Jrivers renderer(JRVR) which now is very good and more is to come, I read now on JRiver 31, especially tonemapping looks interesting :-).
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If the downloading is what I think it is, that could easily be what is causing the data stream to be a problem.
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No no...I never download while watching movie. What I describe I have seen for a long time. But it is better now somehow, less often.
recommendation for readers: There is not much about motion processing in reviews and youtube so therefore I type this here.
Sony oled A80J/K or A90J/A95K or Lg C2/G2(has strongly improved their truemotion processing compare to their previous models B1(which I have) and C1/G1 reducing much of Sonys lead in motion processing( better motion, less shimering effect on light object/high contrast scenes in motion and much less artifacts. Reguarding arfiacts, they will always be there on every tv if things go to fast). Sony is King here as they tackle tricky, unpredictable motion better without introducing too much soap opera effect (from whathifi says in their review of a95k).
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Sorry you're still having issues. Glad you think 5:5 pulldown looks good, I've been very pleased doing things that way.
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Yes strange that I can not use exclusiv mode in Madvr. I even tested a rtx 3070 ti with same result(without the glitching in OSD, but washed out colors and black blinking). It could just be that Lg oled B1 does not allow it and one need the more expensiv C1 model, But that is just a thought( I am left with the impression that this is hardwarerelated). I dont know why I get that behaviour. Sad that C2 and I guess C3 does not have BFI enabled on 120 hz , only 60 hz.
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Yes strange that I can not use exclusiv mode in Madvr. I even tested a rtx 3070 ti with same result(without the glitching in OSD, but washed out colors and black blinking). It could just be that Lg oled B1 does not allow it and one need the more expensiv C1 model, But that is just a thought( I am left with the impression that this is hardwarerelated). I dont know why I get that behaviour. Sad that C2 and I guess C3 does not have BFI enabled on 120 hz , only 60 hz.
The display shouldn't have an impact on whether you can switch to exclusive mode or not. You're running something that is preventing the switch to exclusive most likely.
What do you install when you set these systems up?
Install Windows 10 (fresh, as in, format the existing install's drive) install the newest NVidia drivers, reboot, install JRiver. Then test.
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Saw Your message now. I have windows 11 pro now. all I have done is installed nvidia driver, jriver 31, opera browser and logged inn to opera account on opera browser. installed all the windows updates and 4 mainboard drivers, realtek audio, intel inf driver, uefi restart app, and finally intel management engine driver and lan driver. no iobit software.
I can not log into microsoft account in apps advanced settings. I dont know if this is important ..it says only it has something to do with using app across your different devices.. is this important?
I may do a resinstall if this is important.
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A tip! Because there are no "right" settings and there are good and bad rendering with all choices, and if one does not want to tweak and see what work and what not work, and dont mind some stutters, shivering effects and shimmering effects on moving objects in high contrast scenes,like the opening white room scene in Alien Covenant, one could just set truemotion to cinematic movement(a set and forget motion setting). In general this is a good choice. Many movies work ok with this setting, like the latest batman movie or jurassic world. Also If You want smoother motion and better panning scenes, choose Truemotion, Natural(instead of using custom settings, de-judder and de-blur(bfi), some state that the pre-choices are more fine-tuned and introduces less artifacts. I Am very happy with this setting. On Sony tv´s You just set the picture mode to "true cinema/cinema" and You be fine. (one does not need to activate custom mode, the tv will handle it all and with very little or no visable SOE effect, if I have understood the Sony settings correct. (custom mode: smoothing and clearness settings)). Also set Cinemotion/Film mode to high and if one experience unwanted rendering, atifacts, then set it at medium.
For Sony tvs this is a good thread to read: https://www.avforums.com/threads/sony-motionflow-film-mode-settings-explained-finally.2205593/
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I think You posted on the wrong thread. This is about movie rendering and video stutter, not audio! Please delete Your posts.
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i cant find the delete option
i see quote and modify
Plz advise,or can an admin remove it
i have tried
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leperlord...You could just click on modify and delete all text and just write ...delete and then click save.
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Thank You, much appreciated! :)
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Thank You, much appreciated! :)
NP mate