INTERACT FORUM
Windows => Television => Topic started by: tzr916 on March 23, 2023, 03:53:52 pm
-
I fully understand needing to play old WTV recordings in MC. But can someone explain why MC needs to record in WTV? For editing the recordings? Isn't TS format is just as easy to edit in video redo? For serving clients, we already do that too.
-
We had a WMC user ask for it. He believes that the WMC community is committed to WTV. He says it can contain metadata.
Here's the thread on WTV (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135458.0.html).
-
Wtv is a single file format which contains all the program metadata as well as the video and audio.
It is also easily edited by many editors especially VideoRedo which allows for program data to be edited at the same time.
It's also very rugged
It's easily interoperable with WMC without extra libraries or conversion which matters to WMC users who, if they migrate, will probably do so slowly, allowing new recordings in JRiver to be immediately playable in WMC.
WTV is not an 'old' format just because WMC is no longer supported by MS - there are large numbers of users still using WMC in W10 & W11 - see Green Button forum.
It's about WMC users who might migrate to JRiver - slowly - having a native inter-operational format.
I might say - why not if it achieves the above?
Users who prefer jtv or TS can continue to use that - it's not about removing anything, but making JRiver more attractive to a wider audience.
-
Ya, I did the switch back in 2015... Attracting more WMC users is fine, just know the real life consequences of trying to run WMC along side of MC, such as inevitable tuner conflicts.
-
Can't you tell MC not to use certain tuners? I don't know about WMC.
-
Yes to both, but any overlap can and will cause issues.
-
I run 4 WMC machines with Quad tuners - that's up to (but normally not) 16 channels that can be simultaneously recording, 4 to each local machine - lots of redundancy.
I think your point is about the clash if you run WMC and JRiver on the same machine - yes point well noted.
I have some 3000 (5Tb) wtv files on 4 WMC machines and a standard file server which has no specific software (just a file server share- which is what we like for an FS).
All machines can see all recordings immediately they are finished because WMC uses a peer 'library' indexing db on each machine - there is no single point of failure if for instance the file server went off line.
Neither is there any special routine, just peer network shares which any instance of WMC, or anything else, can play directly.
I am still getting my head around JRiver's mechanisms and am looking for the Wiki on Library server as this is advocated, but it does look like a single point of failure - but I need to read further.
Also I need to do be able to navigate all this from the 10ft view (Theatre view) with remote not mouse/kboard/desktop.
Also 10k photos and loads of audio - so library handling is very important - so her indoors says :)
-
I'll split this to a new thread.
-
Quoting myself from an earlier message...
If you have multiple machines, you can have all of them running as both clients and servers. MC serves both functions quite well.
Normally, you would set up one machine as the server and the rest would be clients, but you can do whatever you want.
-
mcq, what tuners do you use?
-
Black Gold BGT 3602
-
Jim - Yes - I said I need to read up and experiment some more.
So if all the machines are clients & severs i.e. have tuners and record on their local FS, are you saying they can sync with each others indexes?
Presumably my main FS would need to run something as, if I read this right, JRiver can't simply read a remote network share in theatre view.
I guess I really don't understand why MC can't just see a network share, index it and play when clicked on.
I get the need to do something server-ish for wan connections but not really for LAN ones
-
Black Gold BGT 3602
3620? Dual tuner?
-
BGT 3602 2xDVB-T2 and 2xDVB-S2
BGT 3602 is the BGT3600 with updated codec chip.
-
I'm only curious, but do you have a link to it? Or to its specs? I couldn't find one.
-
Out of business since last year - I bought up the last few - having known the MD for a few years and worked through the pain of going from T > T2 and S > S2 driver wise.
Black Gold regarded as one of the best then on the market
-
Too bad. Thanks.
-
Think there's several others about according to chaps on GreenButton forum
-
With a client-server setup, you are able to record on all computers, server and clients. All you need to to make sure the shared drives are known to the server exactly the same way as it is on the client. For example, if you record on a client on M:\ drive, you want to share that drive with the server and map the shared drive on the server as M:\ drive. This way both the server and the client refer to the same recording by the same path and filename. All other clients can access the same recording via the server, except the machine on which the show is actually located. That client has the option of accessing the file locally.
If you do not set up a server, all computers act independently. They can record on their own, and put recordings in their own folders. All other computers can set up automatic import on all folders other computers use. With this setup all computers have their own library (automatic import will pick up shows recorded by other computers). Synchronization could be an issue. For example if you edit a recording on one computer, the other computers may not know it has been edited.
-
Need to get my head round that (or ice pack).
Can you use UNC instead of drive letters - drive letters can move - as per pic below.
If you have a bog standard windows file server - can you add that into the mix without it having any JRiver software running?
It's just that all the other apps on my pc inc WMC can simply look at an Lan UNC and open the remote file without further ado, it's only MC which seems to need software on a FS which is normally something that server managers don't like.
-
Yes you can use UNC
-
Can I connect over Lan without putting extra software on my file server i.e. just a UNC connection?
Could this be made possible for audio, pics and video?
What I'm asking for is that over a Lan, any MC Client/server can see a UNC path to FS and use it for its library without extra software on the remote FS.
Please.
-
Yes. Just try it.
Set up auto import and tell it to watch a folder on your file server. Start with a limited number of files, just to try it.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Network
-
Excellent - excited :)
-
Configured UNC path to load server in Auto-Import, clicked Finish - immediate reboot - nothing much in Event Log
After reboot JR complained of improper shutdown - unsurprisingly.
Examined Auto Import folders and UNC path not registered.
Repeated - same again - reboot routine.
Managed to achieve path registered once - then it rebooted on clicking Run Auto-Import now.
Eventually after more reboots the files appeared in the library.
Then removed the UNC path from Auto-Import, but the files didn't disappear from the library as I would have expected now the path has been deleted - even after running Auto-Import again.
Manually removed files from library.
Started over again - continuous reboots each time.
Checked each time and Windows Explorer can always see the share - so that's not the issue.
Nothing of any relevance in Event View Application log
Couple of entries in System log - but nothing else.
-
In auto import, browse to the location you want.
-
Did that - it crashes when finish is pressed - see Screenshot 8 above
-
Software doesn't cause an entire system to reboot, unless there is already an underlying issue that it manages to somehow trigger.
-
Well everything else appears stable .......
I have just mapped a drive 'J' to the remote path and the same happens.
Connecting WMC to the path is fine
Happens every time
- could be a problem down at the network protocol level as the reboot occurs as soon as MC attempts to acquire remote resource.
Don't know what else to do.
-
Think its a W11 issue.
Going to install JR on my W10 production machine.
Will be back later :)
-
Windows 10 or 11 both work fine with MC. Hendrik's comments about a system reboot are right. Hardware or driver.
Anitvirus software can also cause problems. Windows Defender only is our advice.
-
Thanks for suggestions - Hendrik (hello again from a long time ago) was on the right track.
Seems to be an issue on W11 (though not necessarily W11 fault, with Intel driver on Z790 chip sets - or there abouts.
Gets triggered by some network calls - seemingly the ones that JR makes but WMC doesn't - anyway not a JR problem.
Everything now installed on W10 Z470 board and UNC path doesn't cause reboot - so thanks all.
Now to grasp library - can you have separate libraries for pics, audio, wtv etc - at the moment I just seem to have one - just getting into the wiki
-
Yes, you can have multiple libraries, but there is no need to. MC is extremely flexible in how you choose to display your media. I suggest that you use it for a while to get used to it.
I can't imagine how MC and WMC could use the network differently at a hardware level.
What are you running for antivirus? Have you allowed MC?
-
Running the same AV - ESET- on both - it's definitely a driver issue somewhere -
Anyway moving on - or rather with W10 -how in theatre view do I separate videos from recorded tv - the only top level I can see is Shows which is a bit broad.
Can I add to the Theatre view top line options somehow
-
ESET or Windows may also be blocking with a firewall.
MC video files have a tag for Media Type and for Media Sub Type. MC can guess what is a show, but you can over-ride it with the Media Sub Type tag. There is a search window at the bottom of the tag window.
-
Well ESET is fine on W10 - really don't think it's that anyway wouldn't cause a reboot - ESET is good in my experience.
Anyway library stuff is getting beyond me I think .....
Are you saying that I only need one library for local stuff and remote stuff of all file types and then I can filter them before viewing in Theatre view.
So that all wtv (say are shows, audio is only audio and images are only jpg etc?
Can I change the word Show to Recorded TV?
It's all very clever but requires a load of knowledge to get configured - well that's how it seems to me.
I'll try and find this tag type.
Meanwhile having deleted a load of entries that were in the library, i cant get them back 'cos it says it skipped them because I previously deleted them- what?
Ignore this - now found tick button to remove previously deleted.
-
A reboot would be bad, but strange things happen with security software. Here's just a sample:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,86096.msg631812.html#msg631812
-
OK Jim - but all is fine on W10 - so I need to move on.
I managed to rename the Shows folder to Recorded TV which is what my wtvs are and import them from a remote FS - this is good.
But Theatre view still calls them Shows - can this be changed to reflect what the folders are called?
See pics
-
I managed to rename the Shows folder to Recorded TV which is what my wtvs are and import them from a remote FS - this is good.
But Theatre view still calls them Shows - can this be changed to reflect what the folders are called?
Tools > Options > Theater View You can change the name.
-
Oh - let me play.
Beginning to think for a new WMC users - not a techie who loves configuring, but someone who just wants something familiar for an easy migrate - we need a WMC wizard?
Also can you turn thumbs from portrait to landscape as telly is mainly 16x9
-
There is a Zen saying ... Comparisons are odious.
When anyone changes from their old favorite to something different, there is an expectation that it will be better, worse, malleable, etc.
Letter B. Just play.
-
I could reply but I won't :)
Looking for an OOB replacement - not something to keep playing with.
I'll persevere
-
Play something you love. Forget about trying to reproduce what you knew.
Remember that you've been married to WMC a long time and you've built a complex entertainment network around it over many years. Take your time and enjoy MC.
-
Underlined option to inhibit WMC doesn't seem to do so - WMC still launches when remote is used.
*Since solved - needed a reboot - if I subsequently untick, would it restore WMC?
When setting EPG 123 guide as XMLTV source - browse box only offers .xml and hence doesn't see file - all files does of course - selection could usefully include xmltv
I managed to get this wrong by pairing tuners to a path ending .xml and of course no guide data was found.
I then found a page, which I can't find now, which said it enabled editing of this path, but it didn't, it actually added another path with no tuners - seems Edit did Add - if I find the page again I'll forward - had to reconfigure tuners and scan again.
Pics of first two points attached
Gone 0000 - 'play time' over :)
-
Any chance Alt Enter could be mapped to window theatre mode and back to FS again - or is there another key combo
-
Green Button.
F11
Ctrl something. 3 or 4?
-
My bad description here
Green button still keeps Theatre view full screen - just changes the view.
What I meant was to give the same function as this highlighted button - giving this windowed Jr within rest of windows desk top
-
Theate View is only full screen.
Try ctrl 1, 2 etc
-
Explained on the wiki:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/View_Modes
Display View can be any size, not just full screen.
-
Theatre View is only full screen.
Is it?
If I go into Theatre view Full screen and play a video, then click on the window box RH side of top bar, it switches to what seems to me Theatre view windowed (not Display mode). Then if I click the window box top right - see pic - it goes back to Theatre view FS and the video continues playing all the time.
Don't believe either of these is Display Mode.
What I'm looking for is a kboard click to flick between the two view, windowed and FS of Theatre view that I have described above - in WMC it is ctrl Enter for each direction.
-
Theater View is only the navigation. If you play a video you switch to Display View, which can be fullscreen or in a window.
-
Oh I follow now.
In which case is there a kboard short cut, or could we have one, that flips between Display mode FS and Display mode windowed - e.g. CtrlEnter please
-
You can use Ctrl-3 to swap between Display View and Standard View, which gives you the full library interface and playback controls, rather then the very limited display interface.
-
Thanks Hendrik
Actually ctrl 3 toggles just as I was looking for - providing you start in Display mode FS
Ctr3 seems to do different things depending where you start.
If you start in Display mode FS then it toggles to windowed and back as I was looking for.
If you start in Standard it toggles to Display windowed and back to Standard.
But if you're in Display windowed - there's no knowing what ctrl3 will do unless you remember where you started
For instance if you're in standard - with video playing there's no key stroke that will take you to Display FS - least I haven't found one.
Actually ctr3 is more like a back button - depending where you are
-
When a video is playing, MC is in Display View (sort of temporarily out of Theater View). Display View allows resizing of the window. I don't know if there is a way of mapping window size button to a key combo. Maybe there is not.
-
Looks like its an x86 function?
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/alt-enter-switches-between-window-and-full-screen-d1b23daa-644d-3fbf-2f5e-c2c779584db5
Though it says for char based windows - bu sure WMC uses this combo for toggling FS to windowed
Other apps using this combo
https://defkey.com/what-means/alt-enter?utm_content=cmp-true
-
Ctrl+3 switches between Standard View and Display View. If you never actually take Display View out of fullscreen, then windowed display view will never come up and not be part of the Ctrl+3 mode switch (and it won't naturally occur either, unless you specifically minimize display view).
Either way MC has several different views, its not as simple as "toggle fullscreen", because what does fullscreen standard view even mean? For every user something else, quite likely.
Thats why we have the keys to switch between desired views directly.
-
I'm simply trying to toggle with a kb short cut as if I were clicking the box highlighted in red each time
https://tweaks.com/windows/39108/windows-media-center-keyboard-shortcuts/
"Go in and go out of windowed mode ALT+ENTER"
Looks as if JR doesn't have shortcut that does that - ok.
-
In Playing Now, try double clicking on the video, or try right clicking on it and selecting Detach Display.
Then try F11.
Theater View is full screen, meant for displaying on a TV.
For the desktop use, we'd normally expect a user to switch to Standard View.
I typically watch by using a remote, and from Theater View, I can exit with F11 or by scrolling right to Exit.
-
I'm simply trying to toggle with a kb short cut as if I were clicking the box highlighted in red each time
And I would generally recommend to not use that mode at all. Watch in fullscreen, manage MC in Standard View, can also have the video running in Playing Now if so desired. If you never use windowed display view, then Ctrl+3 will do exactly as you wish.
Long term its usually better to understand the flow of a new app rather then try to shoehorn yours into it, that way you can take advantage of more features, even if not directly obvious.
-
When I want to flip out of FS it's probably to answer an email or a forum post, I want to keep the prog running windowed with sound and flip back as soon as I'm finished.
Nothing to do with managing the app - I'm hoping once set up I won't have any managing to do!
Once I have this setup and working, I don't really want to see the Standard screen again.
Windows is about having more than one app viewable when required and then going back to FS when finished.
My exercise is about an OOB replacement for WMC for those who wish to make a 'similar for similar' change - not about 'loads of new features' - 'JR Light' if you will.
Also for a 'her in doors' 10' experience with a remote - which I'm beginning to think is a possibility.
We're not talking about 'for techies' here or 'having a whole new experience' - but simple watching from the 10'
-
The same thing applies however, as just pressing Ctrl+3 will toggle between fullscreen playback and standard view, assuming you never manually disabled the fullscreen mode.
-
Try double click.
Try escape or escape escape.
We're familiar with the trouble and strife expectations.
-
When I want to flip out of FS it's probably to answer an email or a forum post, I want to keep the prog running windowed with sound and flip back as soon as I'm finished.
Ctrl+1 is probably the best way to achieve that. It is the sure way of getting back to Standard View, with video playing in the small window of Action Window. Use Ctrl+3 to get back to Display View (usually fullscreen, unless you already took it out of FS mode before you switch to Standard View).
-
Hi both - if i begin in Theatre view using remote and start watching a video using a remote which is most likely situation, if I then do any of those suggestions
- I get (pic ctrl3) not (pic window)
To get to (pic window) from the starting position I have to mouse to top of FS and click the window box - i.e. I must use a mouse - I was looking for a key stroke that would do what I wanted.
Obviously JR doesn't have one - so I'll leave it there.
-
Hi Yaobing
If I start from where I said in the previous post, then ctrl1, I get standard mode which I don't want, if I then do ctr3 I get FS - I do not get windowed.
There seems to be no key stroke that will reliably toggle me between the two pics attached - I have to use the red circled 'window' button which requires a mouse.
-
Hi Yaobing
If I start from where I said in the previous post, then ctrl1, I get standard mode which I don't want, if I then do ctr3 I get FS - I do not get windowed.
I know you wanted a windowed display view. I was just offering an alternative. If you get out of the fullscreen mode mainly to answer emails, you should not be concerned too much about which view MC is in, Display view or Standard view, should you? You can even try Alt+Tab to switch directly to your email program, while leaving MC in full screen mode. When you finish your emails, alt+Tab again to get back to MC.
There seems to be no key stroke that will reliably toggle me between the two pics attached
That is probably correct.
-
It's liveable with - though for me not ideal - just thought I'd make sure I'm not missing anything :)
-
Just about to tackle Theatre view layout - reading Wiki.
Got to make it 'familiar' to the 'intended audience' - you'd call it something different.
For a non techie audience you have to start with something familiar - even if it's very different underneath - bit like electric cars still need brake and accelerator in a familiar place :)
Am I right that the tick box re Windows Media Center actually removes it - unticking won't restore it - it needs a manual re-install?
-
Am I right that the tick box re Windows Media Center actually removes it - unticking won't restore it - it needs a manual re-install?
It's non-destructive. It just disables (and re-enables) WMC. Otherwise WMC can cause problems.
No harm in trying without doing that though.
-
Couple of questions please -
1) Should I be able to start JR in Theatre View by pressing the Green Button on the remote?
2) Can I start JR directly in Theatre View by using a switch e.g. /T
-
Couple of questions please -
1) Should I be able to start JR in Theatre View by pressing the Green Button on the remote?
Yes if MC is already running.
2) Can I start JR directly in Theatre View by using a switch e.g. /T
Take a look at the wiki topic "The Command line"
-
So you can't wake JR up and directly with the remote go to Theatre view - as you can with 'you know what'?
Is that insurmountable?
-
Run media server on windows start up.
-
I just knew you'd say that Jim :)
Yaobing I see the command /Mode Theatre - but can you assist with putting the syntax in this box please - thanks.
-
Read MrC's post here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,65601.msg439787.html#msg439787
-
Oh - ok I thought I'd grown out of batch files for this sort of thing
Anyway and by the way as the sleep cmd is no longer supported, I'll try
timeout 2 /nobreak >nul
Wouldn't it be just nice if JR had some Theatre (Theater) view start up options built in to click during setup
- 'Theatre View Shows', or 'Theatre View Guide' or 'Theatre View Play' (where it plays the last channel selected in the guide for instance.
Starting in 'standard view' is like 'staring at the innards I'm being told.
-
Try Tools > Options > Startup > Location > Last Location.
Options has a search window.
-
Oh that's better Jim :)
Any way that Exit in Theater mode could close the app without having to go back through standard view?
-
Right arrow to Exit, then you have choices.
-
I'm using a remote - Exit doesn't have option to close the app to do that, or does Shutdown mean shutdown the app not the PC?
No it means shutdown the PC.
I just want to exit JR - am I missing something?
Theatre View configuration for Exit is non configurable but calls a stand alone screen - could that have an Exit J River option?
-
Choose Exit, then choose "System Sleep, Shutdown, & More...". You will see "Close Media Center". It seems a bit confusing isn't it?
-
Could 'we' just promote it to the top line of options please?
-
Just try it for a while. It takes two seconds to do.
-
I understand and will do.
Don't quite understand why all other functions in Tools>Options>Theatre View are configurable, but Exit isn't and has a separate fixed screen?
-
Had to re-build JR a few times recently and was reminded of the small problem when configuring XMLTV schedule.
Although JR describes this option as xmltv and the relevant screen does too, the combo box to select the file is filtered to .xml not .xmltv - hence .xmltv files, e,g, from EPG123 doesn't show.
Combo has to be changed to 'all files' - no big deal but be good if filter included xmltv - pics attached.
-
Thanks for reporting this. I will change the behavior (or you can rename your EPG123 file .xml ;D)
-
Hee hee Y
I get round it by selecting 'all files', but for the sake of others perhaps you could modify the filter option to be xml and xmltv.
Thanks
-
P.S. I really do wish that JR didn't automatically try and import all the folders it can find without asking first - I get caught every time.
Please ask first - thanks.
-
It tells you and you have 45 seconds to stop import.
If you don't catch it, clear your library and import again.
-
Yes I know.
But with everything else going on when doing a new build it's easy to miss/forget the little message in bottom L.
Just a suggestion to ask first.
-
Thanks for reporting this. I will change the behavior (or you can rename your EPG123 file .xml ;D)
A beer for the answer as to why this won't work ;)
-
No takers?
Competition is now closed.
The answer is that 24 hrs later EPG123 will have updated the schedule with a new file with .xmltv extension.
At which point JR's guide will be out of date as it will be looking for a .xml file ;D
-
I was not sure what you meant by "this will not work" - me changing MC or you changing file extension ;D
You could make it work if you really wanted to: write a script to change the file extension and run it between downloading of the data and MC importing the file. But of course that is not necessary as I am changing MC.
-
I do know when you're pulling my leg ;D