INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 18 for Windows => Topic started by: JimH on August 09, 2012, 03:18:21 pm
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MC18 adds a new way to save and play playlists and Play Doctor playcharts. You will find it by opening Playing Now.
If you wish to generate a Play Doctor Playchart, you will also need to stop playback of the current list.
Populating buttons and using them to play works like the buttons on a car radio. You press and hold to save. You press to play.
More Details:
Buttons 1 through 8 appear on the Play Doctor.
Press and Hold to save the currently playing playlist.
If you're playing an ordinary playlist, it will save it.
This feature is intended to make it easy for casual users to start playback.
Changes to Play Doctor:
The window for selecting the seed for playback has been simplified. The settings are now hidden under "options" to the right of the selection window. Settings are saved for each playchart, but it is not necessary to set anything in order to have Play Doctor generate a PlayChart.
Once you have started playback, you can use the Car Radio buttons to save the list with its rules. When you press the saved button again, it will generate a new list, based on the seed and the rules.
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I did some spouse (that's for you jgreen) testing.
The click to play and hold to set thing was immediately obvious.
A few things were not:
1) She kept changing the amount of variety _after_ building the playlist and then saving it assuming it used the new setting (this is reasonable, but I don't know how to handle it).
2) After one time seeing the option 'Include tracks from Last.fm', she repeatedly showed me the menu and said 'but it's gone now.' It was there each time. This may sound impossible to fix, but I wonder if we shortened the text to 'Include Last.fm tracks' if it would help.
3) The suggestions in the search box 'You might like' were totally missed. When I asked how you might play a mix of highly rated songs, she ended up right-clicking column headers, right-clicking the display, editing the rules for included files, etc. Jim, you were right.
4) If it's slow to get related artists from the Internet, the program can look stuck. It should show a wait message until it gets one file playing. Normally one file should start playing right away, but this wasn't working right.
Seeing #1 made me wonder if it would be better to show a popup after typing and pressing enter that asks for the amount of variety, etc. You could push 'Enter' to accept the last choices you'd used, or customize them.
And there's a bug that the Last.fm option is not saved / working.
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1. I'm not your dang spouse nor even your Prom date, so don't get ideas.
2. I think it should be called "Philco".
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Let me start by saying I love the concept but I think Play MD v1 has a far better layout, I nearly didn't see the text entry area and options link.
The layout lacks symmetry which is vital esthetically IMHO. A quick photochop of what I think looks better and has a more efficient feel. (part old/part new)
Edit: After actually playing with it some more and stopping playback I think I understand the placement (cover art remains) however I find the drop down menu
highly annoying in that after you select anything the drop down closes and you have to click options again, a window opening with an OK button would be much better.
Maybe place the preset buttons in the center with the text box and option link centered above them. Another thought is instead of just 1, 2, etc use Preset *n* so it
is more readily understood what the buttons are for.
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I really like the idea of this.
I think the buttons need to have a configurable text label, rather than the 1, 2, 3 etc. I know space is limited but even a few characters would help. Hover text would also help.
I know it's early days but we will need a set of MCC commands to select these buttons.
Nick.
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I love this idea. It might finally make me start using play doctor for real.
There are two major concerns though.
As Nick, I do believe that we need add text labels. Remembering what is what on 8 buttons is not a trivial task. A right click on the buttons with a rename option would suffice. The space for text could be limited to the buttons width.
The biggest concern I have though, is that this is probably NOT saved for library server clients either. At least this was the case for the rules in Play Doctor, which effectively made me never use it after the initial testing. It's just way to much job to do it every time I start my clients. So, for people using library server clients it would be essential that you find a way to sync this setup to the library, or to save the rules and button configuration in a local config file or something, so it's picked up again every time you restart the client.
This brings my mind to a user/client/group based library server sync system, once again, for user/client based data. But I'll try not to go further :)
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I really like the idea of this.
I think the buttons need to have a configurable text label, rather than the 1, 2, 3 etc. I know space is limited but even a few characters would help. Hover text would also help.
Try setting one. It asks for the label and uses it after you've loaded it up.
Thanks for the ideas, everyone. We need your feedback to polish this.
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... this is probably NOT saved for library server clients either.
The lists are saved and I think they are accessible from a client, but if not, we'll try to make that happen.
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I'm not 100% certain. I'll install it later on a new client this weekend to test.
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Try setting one. It asks for the label and uses it after you've loaded it up.
Nice. The buttons resize too.
Nick.
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A few things I found confusing about the first implementation:
- When I clicked on one of the empty buttons, I get a popup that says "This preset is empty. Hold down the button to save something". Clicking an empty button should trigger the search box or some other selection model.
- Next I tried typing a genre (rock) into the box in the lower right. After I clicked enter, there was a significant delay where nothing changed except that my entry disappeared. How about displaying a message stating that your list is being generated?
One important question on the buttons; are you planning on keeping them in their current location? They absolutely ruin the clean look of the cover art section, and take up valuable space while doing it. They look and feel tacked on (which I suppose they are at this point).
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We're still thinking about the look.
I already don't mind it, because the functionality is so useful (at least for me).
But we have our designer thinking about a way to have a slicker look.
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We're still thinking about the look.
I already don't mind it, because the functionality is so useful (at least for me).
I can see the utility. I'd like to save Smartlists to the buttons; that would save me a few clicks every time I start MC.
But we have our designer thinking about a way to have a slicker look.
:D
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I'd like to save Smartlists to the buttons; that would save me a few clicks every time I start MC.
The buttons are just playlists, play charts, or smartlists in the 'Play Doctor' group. So you can customize them by hand (if you're a hacker). Just use the naming: Play Doctor\##. Playlist Name
This also makes it possible to access the presets from Theater View, Gizmo, etc.
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I have never used Play Doctor so I thought I'd check it out from a new user perspective.
1. I had a playlist (not Play Doctor generated) already playing. I didn't know what to do so I hovered over a button and saw that I can "Hold down to store the current playlist." I pressed the button and followed the instructions and saved the playlist. I thought "This is cool", and proceeded to make a radio button for Loopback. At this point I could see that I could save playlists, but didn't really associate this ability with Play Doctor.
2. Over on the right I saw the field that said "Type to play." I wasn't sure what type I wanted and didn't even remember having "type" as a field. I then thought it wanted genre, but then I realized I was supposed to type into the field.
3. I then clicked in the "type to play" field and saw "You Might Like" with some choices. I had put together a playlist for a speaker listening GTG last weekend. Three of the "You Might Like" choices were based on a 20-30 second clip of one song from one artist of which I'll never listen to again. Is there any way to remove or reset "You Might Like." One choice said "2001 by Dr. Dre Mix." That isn't anywhere on my personal "Might Like" list. ;D
4. Having not used Play Doctor before, I found the lack of information about what "type to play" a little strange. There is just a text entry box and some options with no name or description. If I hadn't known that I was testing the Play Doctor I probably wouldn't have known what was going on or what the options were for.
5. The options are great and I can already think of several playlists that I want to generate.
6. You guys should give us an Easter Egg. When we Ctrl + Click the first preset we should get a playlist of our music using Jim's favorite criteria. The other presets could be used for Matt, Bob, etc. :)
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I've had a play and have failed completely.
I set up two sets of rules and stored them under two buttons which I labelled. I clicked on one of them and was told "There is nothing to play". But I gave it some rules which should have enabled it to select dozens of tracks from my collection.
I thought I would check the rules for one of the buttons but there is no way to do that. We need a right click on each button to edit the settings.
I clicked on the "Type to play" field and noticed the short list of tracks. I clicked on one and MC crashed. I restarted and the same thing happened.
Press and Hold to save the current playlist.
What if I don't have a playlist loaded. I want it to generate one from the rules.
You'll be asked if you want to "Automatically generate a playlist?".
No, I wasn't.
So, nice idea but a non-starter for me. What am I doing wrong?
Nick.
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I set up two sets of rules and stored them under two buttons which I labelled. I clicked on one of them and was told "There is nothing to play". But I gave it some rules which should have enabled it to select dozens of tracks from my collection.
You have to have a playlist loaded into Playing Now before you can save anything. Maybe you generated a list but didn't play it.
We're still tinkering with the flow. Make sure you're using 18.0.26.
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You have to have a playlist loaded into Playing Now before you can save anything. Maybe you generated a list but didn't play it.
But I want the playlist to be generated automatically. What's the point of having the rules otherwise? And I don't want the playlist to be stored. Surely the whole idea of this is to surprise and delight the user with a new playlist each time you press the button. You don't know what tunes are going to be played when you press the button on your car radio, do you? I can't see the point now.
We're still tinkering with the flow. Make sure you're using 18.0.26.
There is no option to set rules etc in 18.0.26.
Nick.
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If you start a Play Chart once, and save it to a button, it will ask you if you want it to generate a new list each time.
It's getting late, isn't it?
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OK, I loaded a playlist, I pressed and held the button and it stored the list. Now it plays the same list every time I press the button.
Yes, it's late and I'm tired! I'll have another play tomorrow.
Nick.
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No one else will say it, so I'll have to. It looks like a nod to those rabid anti-doc-ites. ;)
I suppose there may be other issues with a display panel and a UI sharing the same space. But it does beg the question—why add functionality that will make it useful to just about everyone, but not provide a UI that would make it largely self-explanatory and much easier to use? Some didn't like seeing Play Doctor because they had no use for the feature. It's now impossible to argue it has no purpose. Besides, it's a special view for creating and managing Playing Now playlists—why shouldn't it have a UI suitable to that purpose?
The mysterious 'Type to Play' leaves me in the dark until I've done so and the options dialog pops up (and after I'm done, I can't get it back). That's annoying, because those options—particularly the Rules for files to be included—may have a direct bearing on the Search I specify. Looking at Playlists > Play Doctor, however, it's perfectly clear how the list is specified. Even some of the annoying mystery of the old PD is removed by showing (when applicable) '[Field]=search term'. We shouldn't have to switch to Playlists to see this information. Even if one adapts to how this works, it should be possible to recall any search, modify it, and save it to the same or another button.
This is my suggestion:
- Show only buttons. On click-and-hold, open a complete playlist window that includes all settings, options, and necessary controls.
- This window would include...
- Button name (of selected button) - editable, or select different button from drop-down;
- Search - with drop-down (exactly as it is now), but the result displayed as in the Playlist editor;
- Variety - a 'none...lots' slider with tooltip to describe discrete setting chosen;
- Rules for files to include - standard dialog with field, operator, value drop-downs (with a control to add another);
- Include tracks from LastFM;
- Controls - including Save, Play, Close (only Close closes window, so it can remain open for modification after list is generated).
- There is a standard/separate dialog for Rules for files to include, but I'd much rather it be embedded in the window—so the rules remain visible along with the Search and other settings.
- Controls would include Save as default—a buttonless 00. Default playlist—used as the starting point for any new button. I suppose it could be included in the Button name drop-down. That would make a lot more sense than the last-used Rules for files to be included being applied to every new configuration.
- [After thought #1] The settings should include an automatic Remove duplicates option. If I understand correctly, that can only be done after the list is created—and that's one reason why there's a manual PN command for that. But it would be nice if that could be done automatically after the list is created, and after more tracks are added by PD.
- [After thought #2] The button of the currently playing list should be highlighted. If necessary for those who think this thing is a 50-year-old car radio, a pushed-in button look would be fine with me. That would go nice with the rear view mirror visualization framed by giant tail fins. ;)
The buttons would be the only visible part of the interface (tooltip: Play. Hold down for configuration window.) The Play Doctor Configuration could be called for any button without affecting the PN list. It would show at a glance exactly how the search is specified. Then any desired action can be taken and the window closed.
This would be much more accessible and self-explanatory for new users. As it is, every new user is going to ask how it works, what can they do with it, etc., etc. At the same time, it will be much more convenient and flexible for more advanced users.
And Nick could handle it in his sleep. ;D
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I've been playing with it, but not sure I know how to use it.
If I go to:
type to play-->select something from the list-->Play button (from the Play Doctor dialog box)
Then MC crashes.
If I start playing a smartlist, I can hold down on one of the buttons and it asks for a preset name. I can then play that button. But I cannot figure out how to see the smartlist that is behind the button.
If I set up a button by assigning a playlist to it, I cannot figure out how to clear the button (I can assign something else to it).
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If I set up a button by assigning a playlist to it, I cannot figure out how to clear the button (I can assign something else to it).
Currently, the way you clear a button is to save something else to it. I can't think why you would need anything else. It's the way a car radio works.
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If I go to:
type to play-->select something from the list-->Play button (from the Play Doctor dialog box)
Then MC crashes.
That doesn't crash for me. Maybe you never used Play Doctor and some variable isn't getting initialized.
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That doesn't crash for me. Maybe you never used Play Doctor and some variable isn't getting initialized.
Could be. I never used Play Doctor with MC18.
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Currently, the way you clear a button is to save something else to it. I can't think why you would need anything else. It's the way a car radio works.
Fair enough. I thought about that before I made the post but also thought I may be missing something.
BTW: if we put the right skin on it, it will look like my first car's radio (1956 Buick).
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That doesn't crash for me. Maybe you never used Play Doctor and some variable isn't getting initialized.
I did some more testing to try to narrow it down.
If I type to play-->select something from the list-->Play button (from the Play Doctor dialog box)
MC will not crash.
If I do the same thing after pushing one of the radio buttons
MC consistently crashes.
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And Nick could handle it in his sleep. ;D
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Rick, misplaced maybe, but it's the thought that counts!
Thinking of Play Doctor, I think I understand it a little better now. For each button, you can either store a simple playlist - whatever tracks are shown in Playing Now at the time, or you can store a Play Chart, a rule and seed based list. For a simple Playlist, only the list is stored and, on the long press of the button, the option for generating a new list each time the button is pressed is not given. For a Play Chart, when naming the button, the option is given to generate a new list each time the button is pressed.
For the Play Chart option, "Type to play" is not very meaningful. Perhaps something like "Create Playchart".
It would be helpful to be able to refine the rules associated with each button to enable fine tuning of results.
There is definitely a bug when selecting from the short list of options. The dialogue window appears but if you click on Play or Cancel, MC crashes. If you type into the input box, say a genre, it works OK.
Nick.
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I just tried the Play Doctor Playlists and Play Charts with WebGizmo. The lists show up in Playlists under Play Doctor and play OK. The behaviour isn't quite what I expected. For Play Charts, the new list is only generated by going back to the main Playlists page and selecting Play Doctor again. I had expected this to happen when you select the particular Play Chart, like pressing the button in standard view.
Also, no cover art is shown for the Play Charts.
Nick.
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Personally I can't say I like the changes that much. The buttons, and the way you can save the play lists or rules of play list creation, is good. But the removal of all the previous options like Rules for files to include and so on is not so great imo.
I really had to think before I got where I wanted. Because I had NOTHING to write in the "Type to play" field. I have never written there. I have just chosen what to include and to get a mixed result of those. Perhaps this is good for Mac people, but it's not intuitive for me. And the way you get one popup window after you've written something, and get yet another popup when you hit "Set rules for files...." feels wrong. It might be better if the Variety window was expanded with more, instead of opening another window.
Also, even though this line of buttons and text fields are minimal, there will be someone that want it gone. Perhaps you could allow right clicking the line to disable it, and then allowing reactivation of play doctor when right clicking the Playing now selection?
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I think the 'You Might Like' suggestions are making this too confusing for people.
Instead, I think 'Type to play' should become 'Create a new station' (or whatever we call these).
When you click the edit box, the suggestion popup should be only instructions until you type. Pandora says: "Enter an artist, genre or composer. We'll create a radio station featuring that music and more like it." Something like this would make sense here.
Rick's idea of removing the box but showing it on the save popup is also interesting. In that flow, you could be listening to 'Jazz' and save 'Hard Rock' to a button. This is not like a car radio, so I'm not sure if it's better or worse.
The thing I don't like about that idea is we lose a functionality my wife and I use all the time. We think of an artist that sounds good, type a little of their name, hit enter and enjoy a playlist. I don't want to save a preset and deal with a big popup.
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For anyone that doesn't know, the point of Play Doctor is to type a little of something that sounds good and hit enter to get a nice mix. Play Doctor finds similar music, considers ratings, learns as you skip, etc.
Some real world examples of things I might type:
norah - Norah Jones and similar artists
regina - Regina Spektor and similar music
easy - gives a mix of easy listening music
rox - plays a mix of the Decemberists and similar artists starting on a song that's stuck in my head called 'Rox in the Box'
etc.
If you used the old Play Doctor by editing the rules for included files, you were not using it the way we imagined. That's an advanced option and one that I've never even opened personally.
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To follow-up on my Play Doctor explanation, I've found this is my wife's favorite way to play music. It's simple and gives pleasing results.
So I don't want to do anything that complicates the simple flow: type a little, hit enter, hear music.
The new popup I see every time makes this slower and I don't like that.
It's possible it would be more clear if we just separated Play Doctor and Car Radio. Play Doctor could remain as a simple text entry box (although the new suggestions that show as you type are nice, because they remove any guess work). Car Radio could just be a row of buttons. It could still save Play Doctor lists, but the two wouldn't be the same UI.
I'm thinking out loud here, so appreciate any and all feedback.
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It's possible it would be more clear if we just separated Play Doctor and Car Radio.
That was my thought, too.
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... type a little, hit enter, hear music.
I've seen this interface before... ah, yes. The Search box. I wonder if PD could be incorporated there.
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I've seen this interface before... ah, yes. The Search box. I wonder if PD could be incorporated there.
Technically, it's mostly the same code.
But to a user, the search box and the Play Doctor box do totally different things.
I do like the idea of making the search box powerful, but I've never been able to figure out how to make it the face of Play Doctor in an intuitive way.
Do you have any suggestions?
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Perhaps a new section in the results list:
Play Doctor
> Set Doctor's Orders
The first item would Play just as type and enter does today w/PD. The second could open a PD dialog, which today is limited to a non-empty Playing Now (so PD is always available irrespective of PN). Playing the results might also be enacted via keyboard shortcut, which would be shown in the results list like other commands found via Search.
btw. when exploring this, I found a bug w/MC17 and the Search box. Type, for example, an "a", and then select a possible field, such as Access Rating. After the results are shown, it is now impossible to type in the Search box again. The entry must be deleted first via the Clear search button.
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What about adding a Play Doctor prefix for search? pd=*search string*
Any chance of getting a keyboard shortcut for the presets ctrl shift 1-8?
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The new popup I see every time makes this slower and I don't like that.
I wasn't my intention to suggest something that would impede your preferred way of using such a thing. I was addressing the shortcomings that were clearly the result of an assumption it would only be used in one 'use-flow'. I think it would be better if it served a wider variety of needs. It didn't occur to me there could be any objection to entering entering a seed in a pop-up window instead of a text box. I would prefer to see all the settings (which I could take-in at a glance if the window were laid out as I described), even if I were doing exactly the same thing as you.
The way to address your concern is to leave the text box, not dismiss the idea of a window (or some alternative that does the same thing). Call it a 'Quick Play' box or something. My suggestion also did not presuppose saving the search as a button—I said there should be separate Play and Save controls. A 'Quick Play' box should be exactly the same as that in the window. If you entered something and then realized you need some other option, then you would press and hold any button to call the window, select/add your option, then select Play and Close. Or, if that's not intuitive enough, add a button labelled 'Play' to the right of a 'Quick' box (so it's clear it's for 'Quick Play'). When that's clicked, it will play (although the same should happen on <Enter> after typing in the box). More importantly, a click-and-hold would call the window—just like other buttons. When called that way, the controls could be 'Save and Close' and 'Play and Close' to save one click (because we all know how important that is to users). A 'Save and Play' would be done by 'Save and Close' and then clicking the resulting button—not much different than if the user had started with a button.
This approach provides a simple consistent UI—regardless of which of a number of results are desired or the preferred way of getting there. That means it will be easier for everyone to learn and use. There will be few obstacles to first-time use. Anything one might try (presented with a row of buttons and a text box) would produce an understandable result. Clicking a button or typing 'duh <Enter>' in the text box generates a playlist. Doing anything else calls a compact little window providing direct access to all settings and controls. And that alone (with the usual tooltips and drop-downs) will provide all most users would need for a working understanding of the feature and what can be done with it.
It's possible it would be more clear if we just separated Play Doctor and Car Radio.
I think doing so would just make things more confusing. The combined thing is really very straightforward—as long as you're not going to great lengths to hide things or assume a 'use-flow'. They also go together very well. You're not going to get any mileage out of the double branding. As we've seen, that can just make the feature an easier target for the disgruntled. If it's easy to use and effective, most users will embrace it whether it's considered a Play Doctor with buttons, or a Car Radio with a built-in DJ. As for the iatrophobic and koumpounophobic, stop teasing them. ;)
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If you used the old Play Doctor by editing the rules for included files, you were not using it the way we imagined. That's an advanced option and one that I've never even opened personally.
I generally use this for them all. All my duplicate tracks are in a playlist called 'hidden' and files flagged for deletion are in a playlist called 'recycle'. I need these excluded from play doctor lists.
I really like this new implementation. First impressions are favourable.
Matt said:
type a little, hit enter, hear music.
More often than not, MC is not running here, but Media Sever is. In this scenario, all I need to do is hit "Ctrl + Alt + R" and music begins. It's great... actually, better than great, awesome...
So, I have this entry in Rescource.xml:
<Entry Key="Ctrl;Alt;R" Command="10047" Param="1" Global="1" />
What exactly is this doing now? I'm sure it used to use the current play doctor prescription, but this is not the case as it pulls tracks from hidden and recycle, and also pulls tracks that have been played within the past seven days, which is another exclusion I typically set.
-marko
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For anyone that doesn't know, the point of Play Doctor is to type a little of something that sounds good and hit enter to get a nice mix. Play Doctor finds similar music, considers ratings, learns as you skip, etc.
This was not clear to me, and it made me wonder what it really was. People should somehow understand this by them self. But how can this be done? Should this be written under the search box? It don't look that good, but it would give many people a ! instead of a ?
It's possible it would be more clear if we just separated Play Doctor and Car Radio. Play Doctor could remain as a simple text entry box (although the new suggestions that show as you type are nice, because they remove any guess work). Car Radio could just be a row of buttons. It could still save Play Doctor lists, but the two wouldn't be the same UI.
This is also what I thought of. I'm not sure if it's that logical to group it together.
What about having the radio buttons on the Playing now, and a separate Play Doctor function beneath it in the tree or something? As Jim says, it should still be possible to use the Car Radio buttons to save this lists and to get new content each playback.
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not sure if its' by default, but i can't remove a song by pressing the delete button in playing now when using the doctor, i can remove with rightclick though
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A few notes from 18.0.27:
I like that the popup is gone. It made it feel too slow to use.
The text 'Enter any artist, genre, ...' feels broken. I think it would be much better to make a complete phrase, like 'Enter any artist, genre, or song.' or 'Enter any artist, genre, etc.' It's possible this is a programmer instinct, but ... at the end of static text means "the programmer didn't give the static enough room." As a user, I'm wondering what I'm missing.
It would be really nice to get artwork for the car radio bar that softened the division of buttons. A continuous band would look less clunky than discrete buttons.
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I'm starting to understand this but it still is not intuitive, at least to me.
Let's say I use Play Doctor to start something - easy and I can assign it to a button. I can even make new buttons from another button.
But let's say I want to use Play Doctor to start something else. I can't get there unless I clear playing now first. Very much a circuitous route to just start again. Couldn't I just do a right click on a button, or have a reserved button to start the Dr, or a standard link to start again?
Also, I still think it would be nice to clear a button. A right click could do this.
It would also be nice to drag the buttons around to create some logical organization.
In any case, I like the direction.
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But let's say I want to use Play Doctor to start something else. I can't get there unless I clear playing now first. Very much a circuitous route to just start again. Couldn't I just do a right click on a button, or have a reserved button to start the Dr, or a standard link to start again?
Just like in v17, you stop playback (stop button) if you want to start playback with Play Doctor.
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Just like in v17, you stop playback (stop button) if you want to start playback with Play Doctor.
That works. I guess I did not know it with MC17 either. Maybe that could be added to the mouse over help on the button.
Don't you sleep?
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Matt is a machine. I thought all on the beta team knew that :)
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Let's say I use Play Doctor to start something - easy and I can assign it to a button. I can even make new buttons from another button.
But let's say I want to use Play Doctor to start something else. I can't get there unless I clear playing now first.
You just need to stop playback.
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You just need to stop playback.
Thanks Jim. Matt also pointed this out to me last night. I normally do not use the stop button but I've now turned it back on on my options.
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Can I just post on behalf of those of us begging to turn Play Doctor off? ;)
These new buttons seriously clutter the Playing Now screen, and I just don't like it. (Sorry)
Regarding the current state though-
1. The labels on the buttons are confusing. 1-21 simply isn't descriptive, especially when something's playing- The tooltip helps, but it isn't perfect.
2. Again, the text is confusing (You already seem to know this). It needs something like 'from your library' added. I'd be tempted to add a little paragraph of descriptive text on first use which vanishes on subsequent uses.
3. The options are good, but again we need descriptions of some type.
4. The popup tooltip is unreliable here. If I click out of the box onto a Playing Now file and then back again it doesn't popup.
-Leezer-
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1. The labels on the buttons are confusing. 1-21 simply isn't descriptive, especially when something's playing- The tooltip helps, but it isn't perfect.
1 - 21? I only saw 1 - 20 here, and that's on a wide screen 24" monitor with MC maximised. I collapsed the tree, and lo, I now see buttons 1 - 23!! As a side note, when you store a list under a button, you get to name it, and the number is then replaced by the chosen name.
The buttons do look untidy when they're not wanted. Couldn't they auto hide, showing when the mouse enters the display window?
Now, I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here, but It's extremely rare for me to have Playing Now open. I find music in a view elsewhere, select, and play. That's why this is kind of important to me:
More often than not, MC is not running here, but Media Sever is. In this scenario, all I need to do is hit "Ctrl + Alt + R" and music begins. It's great... actually, better than great, awesome...
So, I have this entry in Rescource.xml:
<Entry Key="Ctrl;Alt;R" Command="10047" Param="1" Global="1" />
What exactly is this doing now? I'm sure it used to use the current play doctor prescription, but this is not the case as it pulls tracks from hidden and recycle, and also pulls tracks that have been played within the past seven days, which is another exclusion I typically set.
Can I enter the include files rule in the "Param=" value? When I'm messing around in my photo library, this key combo is generally how I kick off some music to go along with it.
-marko
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1 - 21? I only saw 1 - 20 here, and that's on a wide screen 24" monitor with MC maximised. I collapsed the tree, and lo, I now see buttons 1 - 23!! As a side note, when you store a list under a button, you get to name it, and the number is then replaced by the chosen name.
True, but the first thing I thought when I saw these buttons was WTF :P
At least have a sensible limit, don't just decide on an arbitrary number versus screen resolution.
Another odd little thought- Have you considered doing Play Doctor as a detachable & movable toolbar/ window?
This would divorce it from playing now (Either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your POV) and keep the crowd who don't like it happier.
Movable toolbars are never a bad thing!
-Leezer-
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In my perfect world it would be done like the images below.
Clicking the arrow at the bottom center of the player bar opens/closes the play doctor/preset panel.
The arrow left of "Play Doctor" expands the option menu.
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In my perfect world it would be done like the images below.
Clicking the arrow at the bottom center of the player bar opens/closes the play doctor/preset panel.
The arrow left of "Play Doctor" expands the option menu.
+1
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In my perfect world it would be done like the images below.
Clicking the arrow at the bottom center of the player bar opens/closes the play doctor/preset panel.
The arrow left of "Play Doctor" expands the option menu.
That would be excellent.
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Playchart editing is disabled while we work on the Play Doctor interface. Since the editor shares code with Playing Now, it's hard to keep both working as we're spit-balling ideas.
The number of buttons is now unlimited (they just fill the screen).
Our plan is to live with the current implementation for a little bit, and then come back to it after we've used it more in real life.
I'm still waiting to hear back from our designer.
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Playchart editing is disabled while we work on the Play Doctor interface...
Thanks for the explanation.
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I just upgraded to 18.0.30, and I like the buttons. They don't really stand out, so I didn't notice them at first. It wasn't until I considered saving the (very excellent) Play Doctor playlist that I saw them. maybe a slightly darker shade, or something just a bit 'different' to make them jump out a bit more?
I liked the tooltip.
The options are 'new list' or 'same list' I would like the option to "Shuffle current list" The whole list is great, but I might only get thru 10 or 15 songs in a sitting, and don't want to hear the same songs again next time I click the button.
I just tried saving the current list to a new button, and it asked for a name, and that's it. It didn't ask me what to do next time I play it.
I then tried going back to another tab, that still had the playing now window open, and those buttons had the old names still. I tried saving a new list to the old/original/first window, and it asked for a name, then when that saved, it updated that window with the new names of the other tabs, and the old window didn't update to show the most recent saved list/name. I realize it's probably to do with 2 windows open at the same time, but thought I'd mention the behavior in case it can be 'fixed'.
Keep up the good work.
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Those buttons were a shock!! Updating skins just shot up the 'to-do' list!!
No "Mouse Down" image? - Worked it out...
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Knit Knots Radio buttons are done.
Matt, please help us keep up with the changes in Radio... Does it still learn from skipped tracks? If the answer is yes, does it regenerate the list as it learns, or does it just apply it's newfound knowledge to files 101, 102 etc. as it adds them?
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I had a playchart in the root of playlists called "Current Session". It's been there a long time and I'm sure MC auto generated it at some point. I deleted it today... is this OK?
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The new button layout is much improved, lower profile and more integrated.
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Does it still learn from skipped tracks? If the answer is yes, does it regenerate the list as it learns, or does it just apply it's newfound knowledge to files 101, 102 etc. as it adds them?
Yes. Play Doctor learns from your skips.
When you skip, it replaces similar music later in the playlist with better matches.
It also takes the learning into account when it adds new songs to the end as you play (it keeps 100 songs after the current play position).
Finally, if you rate your songs, Play Doctor will make better mixes. If you don't like something, give it 1 or 2 stars and you'll be less likely to hear it again. And if you love something, give it 4 or 5 stars and you'll be more likely to get that song in mixes.
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I don't understand why these simple and necessary functions are not provided. (I use 'preset' to mean a button and the playchart settings or static playlist associated with it.)
- Rename preset.
- Copy preset.
- Modify preset settings.
- Delete preset (i.e., reset to an 'empty' button).
- Default settings that actually remain at a default setting instead of being updated to the last used.
- Reorder buttons.
Not providing these doesn't make those that are provided easier to use. The user has to learn functions they might reasonably expect to exist do not. They then have to accept the only way to use the feature is to create a playchart from scratch, then assign it to a button. That's going to create frustration in learning how it works, and then annoyance with the arbitrary limitations.
Regardless of how it's presented in Playing Now, simply providing all of these functions in a simple direct options dialog would allow the whole thing to be presented as a button bar (i.e., Play Doctor input box + options button + buttons) that could be optionally displayed (under the player bar) in any view. This would allow quick access to Play Doctor, saved playcharts, favourite playlists, etc. without having to change views.
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I'm completely baffled as how you get it to generate a playlist. Build 30.
I tried this. I selected a load of songs. Press and held the buttons and it saves the playlist to the button after requesting the playlist name.
No matter how I press the button however it just starts playing the playlist I built.
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I'm completely baffled as how you get it to generate a playlist. Build 30.
I tried this. I selected a load of songs. Press and held the buttons and it saves the playlist to the button after requesting the playlist name.
No matter how I press the button however it just starts playing the playlist I built.
That's what it is supposed to do. Press and hold a button to save the currently _playing_ playlist. Then press the button to play it.
If you want a Play Doctor list, you need to enter a seed to start from where it says "Play Doctor". With the skin, Black on Black, the background is too dark and it doesn't show that "Play Doctor" is a text box.
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I'm completely baffled as how you get it to generate a playlist.
That's what happens when you try to make it do anything other than the one thing it's supposed to do. ;)
With enough patience, however, there's a slim chance you can make it do other wacky things without your head exploding. For example, let's say you just can't let go of the idea of using a button to play one of your favourite smartlists. (If you're not that crazy, just pretend.) Here's what you do...
- Switch to Playlists.
- Copy (i.e., 'export') your smartlist.
- Return to PN.
- Clear PN so the UI is available.
- Select Options > Rules for files that can be included > Import.
- Paste your smartlist from the clipboard.
- Remember that your smartlist is now the default for any future lists.
- Carefully place the cursor in the input box—without entering anything—and press <Enter>.
- Press and hold the button you would like to assign it to.
- If you change your mind about the name or the button it's on, don't fret...
- Press and hold another button, and assign a new name.
- Clear PN.
- Select Options > Rules for files that can be included > Import.
- Clear the smartlist.
- Press and hold the old button, and assign it's number as the name. It may not be the same as an empty button, but it will look and act like one.
NB: If you have such a wacky thought, there's a good chance you'll have a closely related one. That you'll be able to enter a search term in the text box, then push the button for your favourite smartlist, and it will use the search term to narrow the results the smartlist would otherwise produce. Don't even think about it. Repeat steps 1 to 10 until you see the light. It's not supposed to work that way!
This will be so much fun to explain to wives and new users! ;D
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Here's a thought...
With those old car radio push button systems, didn't the selected preset button stay pushed in? If we had a fourth button state, we could tell at a glance that we were in radio mode and which station was playing...
-marko
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Once you have started playback, you can use the Car Radio buttons to save the list with its rules. When you press the saved button again, it will generate a new list, based on the seed and the rules.
It was this that confused me. After starting with play doctor I can now get it to work. Thanks.
Why not have it offer to generate a play doctor list if you've just created a standard play list too?
Other note Media Center gets very unresponsive doing this kind of thing if you've got long cross fades in.
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Why not have it offer to generate a play doctor list if you've just created a standard play list too?
I think that's a good idea.
It makes the save flow consistent without adding a lot of complexity.
There's been some debate, in this thread and inside the company, as to the basic flow: play something then save it, or save and allow fully configuring what you're trying to save. I think there are good arguments for both methods, but we're going to do the first.
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With those old car radio push button systems, didn't the selected preset button stay pushed in? If we had a fourth button state, we could tell at a glance that we were in radio mode and which station was playing...
This is tricky, because what happens if you manually add a track or reorder a track? In other words, Media Center doesn't tightly define where it's playing from. It could store that a radio button started playback, but it's not clear when that should be reset. Maybe just on Stop?
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This is tricky, because what happens if you manually add a track or reorder a track?
How about using the added track as a second seed for that Play Doctor list? That would be a great way to build fully fleshed channels.
One of my major issues with Play Doctor right now is that adding a track breaks the Doctor Mode. Integrating added tracks into the selection process would kill two birds with one stone.
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There's been some debate, in this thread and inside the company, as to the basic flow: play something then save it, or save and allow fully configuring what you're trying to save. I think there are good arguments for both methods, but we're going to do the first.
Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? Why not provide an all-settings pop-up window on right-click of a button? That wouldn't interfere with any prescribed use-flow, while completely removing the arbitrary restrictions on it's use. It would also avoid serious issues with the current approach that still exist even if the restrictions can be circumvented. Like the last used Rules for files that can be included becoming the default. If that setting can be set directly for any specific button, then the 'default' can remain something appropriate for any playlist that might be added.
I'm not sure what bearing 'use-flow' has on this (that inherent vagueness is the reason I believe any use-flow dependent design will fail). Regardless, it would be very useful to have the combination of a predefined set of Rules for files that can be included (i.e., a smartlist) and an entered PD 'seed' to create a playchart. That is, enter the seed in a text box, then click a button. The entered seed is then used (perhaps even overriding one saved with the button) and a list generated that complies with the button's rules. That would allow the creation of buttons like 'Highly rated Rock from the 1980's' which could be selected after entering a seed of 'new wave'. 8)
Like it or not, some users will consider things like this—including the simple ability to use some buttons to launch their favourite playlists—to be more intuitive than any use-flow imposed on them, and will not be happy it's not possible.
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This is tricky, because what happens if you manually add a track or reorder a track? In other words, Media Center doesn't tightly define where it's playing from. It could store that a radio button started playback, but it's not clear when that should be reset. Maybe just on Stop?
I like the idea of having the button stay in the "pushed in" position when a list is playing. It should only be reset if you hit stop or push another radio button.
I also like Wigs suggestion of using added tracks as a feed for Play Doctor, so it can add more similar music. It might be tough to work out though.
What about play doctor just ignores added tracks, and plays them in the order they are added, but keeps on using the original input as a filler for more music? It's a shame that the Doctor stops if you add a single song you want to hear. This makes it less useful on for example parties where people often want to add their favorite tune.
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Quote from: marko on 18 August 2012, 06:59:53
Matt, could MCC /10047 "MCC_PLAY_AUTOMATIC_PLAYLIST" please start an automatic Play Doctor list that uses the exclusion rules set that the others follow when instigated from the Play Doctor interface?
Reply from Matt:
This was a topic of some debate, and I'm still not sure what's right.
If you start Play Doctor on your Android, from an MCC, etc. should it honor the variability, filter, etc. you set in Playing Now? Or should it use some safe defaults that are sure to make a reasonable mix?
Currently, we're using safe defaults. This way, you won't get no mix on your phone because somebody put the setting on 'No variability' back on the server.
I'm not sure about this Matt. I think that most of us manage our servers and set them up to serve our files to us and our clients the way we want them to. This has effectively broken both my "Play Doctor" entry in Theater View and my "Play Doctor" keyboard shortcut for the desktop PC. I haven't tried via Gizmo as you've intimated that will also be broken for me there too. What to do?
-marko
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This is tricky, because what happens if you manually add a track or reorder a track? In other words, Media Center doesn't tightly define where it's playing from. It could store that a radio button started playback, but it's not clear when that should be reset. Maybe just on Stop?
If you manually add a track, Doctor mode automatically disengages, so the button should return to normal.
If you re-order the list, Doctor mode persists, so the button should remain engaged.
Those buttons are very clever btw. They work best against dark skins, I only needed to make custom buttons for two of my skins. Good job there.
-marko
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Quote from: marko on 18 August 2012, 06:59:53
Matt, could MCC /10047 "MCC_PLAY_AUTOMATIC_PLAYLIST" please start an automatic Play Doctor list that uses the exclusion rules set that the others follow when instigated from the Play Doctor interface?
Reply from Matt:
This was a topic of some debate, and I'm still not sure what's right.
If you start Play Doctor on your Android, from an MCC, etc. should it honor the variability, filter, etc. you set in Playing Now? Or should it use some safe defaults that are sure to make a reasonable mix?
Currently, we're using safe defaults. This way, you won't get no mix on your phone because somebody put the setting on 'No variability' back on the server.
I'm not sure about this Matt. I think that most of us manage our servers and set them up to serve our files to us and our clients the way we want them to. This has effectively broken both my "Play Doctor" entry in Theater View and my "Play Doctor" keyboard shortcut for the desktop PC. I haven't tried via Gizmo as you've intimated that will also be broken for me there too. What to do?
-marko
Has there been any more thought regarding this?
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Has there been any more thought regarding this?
My main concern is the 'No variety' setting.
Play Doctor is really about making a mix, and with that option selected, it only plays exactly what you type so isn't really making a mix at all.
I wonder if it'd make more sense to remove 'No variety'. Then I'd feel comfortable honoring the last-used settings from places like Gizmo, MCC, etc.
Thoughts?
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Play Doctor is really about making a mix, I wonder if it'd make more sense to remove 'No variety'.
I think so. Play Doctor with 'No variety' is just a smartlist isn't it?
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Ditching "No Variety" works for me too. I've never personally chosen the option, nor understood its existence.
Anyone else?
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Next build:
Changed: Removed the Play Doctor option 'No variety'.
Changed: Using Play Doctor on Gizmo honors the Play Doctor settings like variety, custom filter, etc. from the server.
Changed: The MCC MCC_PLAY_AUTOMATIC_PLAYLIST (10047) works better with the updated Play Doctor (honors settings, etc.).
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Nice one. Thank you.
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Changed: Removed the Play Doctor option 'No variety'.
Excuse me, but why? Even though some does not understand the point, others do. I do know that this would effectively be the same as creating a smartlist. But why go to the trouble of creating one when Play doctor can do the same in a flash? I find the option very logical, and I'm sure that I'll use it now and then.
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Next build:
Changed: Removed the Play Doctor option 'No variety'.
Changed: Using Play Doctor on Gizmo honors the Play Doctor settings like variety, custom filter, etc. from the server.
Changed: The MCC MCC_PLAY_AUTOMATIC_PLAYLIST (10047) works better with the updated Play Doctor (honors settings, etc.).
Working well. Thank you again.
I'm sure that I'll use it now and then.
Forgive me if I got this wrong, but this suggests you've not used the option so far, and it's been there since Play Doctor's inception back in v17.
If I'm wrong, I apologise, If I'm correct, you've answered you're own question.
If you had a choice between having this option and Radio played back via Gizmo, Theater View or Keyboard shortcut not honouring the base filters you set for Play Doctor, or not having this option, and them all doing so, which would you prefer? "Both" is not allowed, you must pick one or the other!
The discussion over this starts here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=73715.msg502435#msg502435
-marko
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You have not gotten it wrong Marko. I've not used the doctor in the past. But after the radio buttons was introduced, I've started using it more and more. And now I'd much rather keep to using the Play Doctor for quick playback of regularly used searches, as well as quick playback of categories I'm unlikely to select again or don't want to waste time to create a playlist for. So no, I don't think I've answered my self at all.
Now I'm forced to either create a playlist for this, or go into my music pane view and find the genre, artist or album to play. I do not like those extra steps. If it was because it would break something, then I'd be fine. If it would pose real problems I would be fine. But not when some just thinks it's not that logical to have that one extra option there.
After reading some more about how Gizmo radio honors the last mix, I can see that some (that uses the server also as a client mostly) can get a problem. But would it not be a tad better to actually giving the users a few choices in Gizmo Radio instead of stripping them away in the client? What about allowing playback from the radio buttons in the Radio part of Gizmo?
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Possibly. A switch would be needed for MCC /10047 to force it to honour the base filters too.
For example, none of my radio plays a track that's already been played in the past seven days, or less than three stars. It also excludes all tracks that I have in a playlist called "Hidden" and also excludes any 'track' with a forward slash in the file path (to exclude imported internet streams).
Gizmo and MCC /10047 need to adhere to these rules or I don't get the radio I want.
See you in the car park in five minutes? (If I'm not there in ten, start without me! ;))
Seriously though, I guess all we can do is kick this back to Matt et al. As I said a few days ago...
Anyone else?
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I'd like to say again how bad I think the decision of removing the "No Variety" option was. Without the no variety set, it's really hard to get what I want. I've tried to create smartlists with certain genres, with ratings above 3 stars, and save that to a radio button. But it ends up mixing in all kinds of rock and other stuff i really don't want in a electronica mix. YEA, I know I could just play a smartlist. But I want to use the car radio buttons. It's so much more convenient.
How am I supposed to do what I want now? If I want to listen to music similar to an artist, this system probably works fine. But what do you do when you just want one type of music associated to some buttons? I have categorized my music in several ways, and I like to listen to similar music within a certain category. With no variety gone, I can simply not do this. That makes this function pretty much useless for me.
In my opinion, this was a lousy solution to a problem not that many had. What about just forcing the medium variety option if the Radio function is used from for instance Gizmo. Why make restriction that affects so much other stuff? Why make it harder than this, and make certain things impossible or hard? I know this question was raised, but did not get much answers. I still think that it should have gotten more input before getting to such conclusions.
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In my opinion, this was a lousy solution to a problem not that many had.
Using that logic, the removal of "No Variety" hasn't bothered many people either.
I'm not sure if this will help in the meantime, but... if you add the smart list directly to the "Car Radio" playlist group, and name it "Button Number. Smart list name" you can set it off by pressing that car radio button in playing now. For example, name the smartlist: 08. Electronica, and button 8 becomes "Electronica". Push button 8 to begin playback. I've done this for a couple of buttons and it works well enough here, though I appreciate your mileage may vary.
-marko.
Edit:
Another thing I just tried, was using the "Set Rules For Files That Can Be Included" option to restrict the play chart to only return Bob Dylan tracks. click in the "Type here" box, type nothing, press enter. Long press a button, save as playchart, go back into the rules setting and remove the dylan restriction, added a genre=rock restriction, started playback with no seed again, got a playchart restricted to only rock, saved that, went back into settings and removed the genre restriction.
I now have two "No Variety" play charts (as opposed to smart lists) and as the restrictions put in place to produce them have now been removed, future playcharts will behave as expected.
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Thanks Marko. I'll try some of that stuff later on. Let's hope it's easier than it sounds :o
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Another thing I just tried, was using the "Set Rules For Files That Can Be Included" option to restrict the play chart to only return Bob Dylan tracks. click in the "Type here" box, type nothing, press enter. Long press a button, save as playchart, go back into the rules setting and remove the dylan restriction, added a genre=rock restriction, started playback with no seed again, got a playchart restricted to only rock, saved that, went back into settings and removed the genre restriction.
I now have two "No Variety" play charts (as opposed to smart lists) and as the restrictions put in place to produce them have now been removed, future playcharts will behave as expected.
I did not make it through those instruction. I have a problem seeing the logic here, and it's to complicated for me to hope to remember it for further use. So, I'm afraid I have to abandon it. The trick of adding smartlists manually to the Car Radio group worked well though! I'll use that for those buttons I do not want more variations than I choose my self.
I think it's a shame that you can't pick something specific and quickly play it without getting all sorts of strange hits. Even though there are other ways, they are not as convenient. And I think some users will just give up when they can't do what they want. They will not start exploring how to add manual smartlists to the Car Button group. I think that's bad when there could have been other solutions to the mentioned problems.
I understand those who want to use this as a radio with mixed content. Especially with the Gizmo app and perhaps with MCC. I see the problem. But would it not be much better to actually including the variety option in Gizmo and perhaps add 3-4 MCC commands for different variety? Then you can just use what you like, independent of what's set on the server it self. Last used settings could be honored. All but the variety.
When I said "a problem not that many had", I did not mean that such problems should be forgotten. I mean... this is a beta. There can't be that many with these problems yet. Why not use some more time to get more feedback, to find alternatives that suites us all instead of removing features. There's got to be a handful of good alternatives that makes all happy. I've mentioned a couple here. There's probably more of you guys that have smarter suggestions than me. As it stands today Car Radio just lost half of it's usability for me. And I do not think I'm one of a kind in this world. Even though I might be a bit weired :)
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The auto-complete feature on the Car Radio entry box is cool, but it's doesn't recognize all the artists in my library. And if I finish typing and press enter, it acts like I didn't type anything in at all.
After it failed the first time, I ran a test with 15 random artists from my collection. It failed to recognize 2 of them. It also doesn't recognize album or track names from those artists.
The artist show up fine when doing searches.
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The auto-complete feature on the Car Radio entry box is cool, but it's doesn't recognize all the artists in my library. And if I finish typing and press enter, it acts like I didn't type anything in at all.
After it failed the first time, I ran a test with 15 random artists from my collection. It failed to recognize 2 of them. It also doesn't recognize album or track names from those artists.
The artist show up fine when doing searches.
It sounds like the search for 'Set Rules for Files That Can Be Included...' is filtering out files.
Try Play Doctor > Options > Reset Settings to Default...
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It sounds like the search for 'Set Rules for Files That Can Be Included...' is filtering out files.
Try Play Doctor > Options > Reset Settings to Default...
That worked.
I tried a reset before posting, but forgot that settings don't 'take' until after you actually play something. My bad.
I've been using Play Doctor extensively of late; here are a couple remaining issues I've noticed:
- Tremote isn't fully supported. 100 tracks are added to Playing Now on the remote machine but it's treated as a normal playlist after that.
- Album selections don't focus on the album. Submitting an album name return songs from that artist, but not necessarily the album entered. If the artist has a lot of albums, or it's a new album (which has very few listens) the playlist might only include a few songs from the submitted album.
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- Album selections don't focus on the album. Submitting an album name return songs from that artist, but not necessarily the album entered. If the artist has a lot of albums, or it's a new album (which has very few listens) the playlist might only include a few songs from the submitted album.
This is intentional, but I don't like it either.
I'll change it.
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Wow, I'm really enjoying this new feature of MC18! I set it up before reading this thread and had a full row of great P.D. Car Radio buttons with no problem. It is very intuitive to set up. It's especially nice to have the push-one-button-to-play functionality, directly built on the strengths of Play Doctor.
I had couple of thoughts/requests:
-Changing the order of buttons on a left click press and hold would be great. I've already got my row in the "wrong order": Janos Starker, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Radiohead, Jazz, String Quartet, Classical, you get the idea. Now that the radio is up and running it would be great to tinker and move things around, putting the genres next to eachother, the artists, etc. It appears that the only way to do this right now is to start building from scratch.
-Adding right-click pop-up advanced options to the buttons is the next logical step to build the "Ultimate Personalized Car Radio Computer Player" For example, it would be great to be able to add a second seed term (or limiting term) to the button as a a right-click-advanced option once the button is saved (bluegrass + bela fleck, or bela fleck + no jazz).
-It would be great to get more than twelve buttons, I've already filled them up! Lots of real estate above the radio, any possibility to get two rows of buttons? Maybe a right-click add and delete?
-The JRiver El Camino (ie Car Radio Buttons in Gizmo): I would love to go the the Customize Views for Gizmo in options, and have these buttons available as tiles/views to add to the Gizmo home screen. Maybe a Car Radio list that comes up when you go to Add Library Item from Standard View. I play music through Gizmo while driving, running, etc., so one button P.D. functionality within gizmo would be quick and easy to get up and running on the go.
Outstanding work so far, thanks for developing this feature!!!
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The Car Radio lists get saved under Playlists. This allows you to play them from Theater View or Gizmo (just look in Playlists).
This also allows more advanced editing. For example, if you make a smartlist under the 'Car Radio' group and name it 02. My Smartlist, it will work as a button. You can also edit and rename this way.
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Matt, thanks for the update. Cranking up the El Camino right away!
Thanks again for expanding Play Doctor, this is going to be a lot of fun to use with my music library.
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The Car Radio lists get saved under Playlists. This allows you to play them from Theater View or Gizmo (just look in Playlists).
This also allows more advanced editing. For example, if you make a smartlist under the 'Car Radio' group and name it 02. My Smartlist, it will work as a button. You can also edit and rename this way.
I am able to neither create nor edit the Smartlists/P.D. Lists in the Car Radio 'folder'.
Did I misunderstand your statement or is something not working correctly?
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You'll have to create NEW playlists manually and name them correctly for Play Doctor to pick them up. You can not edit playlists that Play Doctor have added.
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You'll have to create NEW playlists manually and name them correctly for Play Doctor to pick them up. You can not edit playlists that Play Doctor have added.
I tried this, created a Smartlist named 08.Test1, and a Playlist named 09.Test2 (the first unused button numbers).
When I went back to the Playing Now window those buttons did nothing but give a message that they were unassigned. Looked back in the Car Radio playlist group and found they were no longer there . . . they only get saved until you leave that playlist group then they vanish.
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I tried this, created a Smartlist named 08.Test1, and a Playlist named 09.Test2 (the first unused button numbers).
Try 08. Test1
The space matters.
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That worked, thanks!
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-The JRiver El Camino (ie Car Radio Buttons in Gizmo): I would love to go the the Customize Views for Gizmo in options, and have these buttons available as tiles/views to add to the Gizmo home screen. Maybe a Car Radio list that comes up when you go to Add Library Item from Standard View. I play music through Gizmo while driving, running, etc., so one button P.D. functionality within gizmo would be quick and easy to get up and running on the go.
Absolutely. Compared to other apps, starting music in Gizmo just takes too long, . Multiple clicks, with connection pauses in between, makes it much less attractive than playing music stored on the phone.
I would love a gizmo widget that simply starts playing music when you click play. It could start a generic PD list using our default rules; or it could use 1st Car Radio button or some other method.
Quick and easy for on the go.
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It's unfortunate this design sacrifices elegance, flexibility and function to a gimmick—one that amuses some, but likely lost on many. It is possible to modify, rename and move buttons in the Playlist section, but that requires leaving Playing Now and it still more cumbersome and confusing than it need be. It sacrifices entirely the possibility of attaching a particular set of rules (i.e., a smartlist) to a button, and then being able to provide or change the text 'seed' with every use. For example, having a button for 'highly rated, good quality Rock', and then being able to seed that with an Artist, Style, Year, or whatever.
This may seem like an obtuse criticism for those who are just trying this out. But consider what happens as those buttons fill up over time. Due to the lack of flexibility, they become subtle variations of one another. Even in the unlikely even you can label them concisely and remember what they do, you'll soon run out of buttons. Why can't we enter a seed in the text box and then click a button to combine that with the rules set for that button? Or right-click a button to change the seed and/or modify the rules? Why can't we reorder the buttons by dragging them? Why can't we (optionally) have the buttons appear in any view? Because that's not how a car radio works, and users prefer gimmickry over elegance. ::)
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It's unfortunate this design sacrifices elegance, flexibility and function to a gimmick—one that amuses some, but likely lost on many. It is possible to modify, rename and move buttons in the Playlist section, but that requires leaving Playing Now and it still more cumbersome and confusing than it need be. It sacrifices entirely the possibility of attaching a particular set of rules (i.e., a smartlist) to a button, and then being able to provide or change the text 'seed' with every use. For example, having a button for 'highly rated, good quality Rock', and then being able to seed that with an Artist, Style, Year, or whatever.
This may seem like an obtuse criticism for those who are just trying this out. But consider what happens as those buttons fill up over time. Due to the lack of flexibility, they become subtle variations of one another. Even in the unlikely even you can label them concisely and remember what they do, you'll soon run out of buttons. Why can't we enter a seed in the text box and then click a button to combine that with the rules set for that button? Or right-click a button to change the seed and/or modify the rules? Why can't we reorder the buttons by dragging them? Why can't we (optionally) have the buttons appear in any view? Because that's not how a car radio works, and users prefer gimmickry over elegance. ::)
I could not agree more. It could be much more. I'm not ungrateful of what's there, but there seems to be some unnecessary restrictions, and it's overall a bit to inflexible imo. I supports Rick's suggestions.
And I would like to add that I still think it was a bad quick fix to remove the "No variation" option for the sake of default playback on other devices. It limits the use of the buttons for some.
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Could I please ask HOW DO I PERMANENTLY GET RID of this feature? I delete it from the Playlist section but it reappears every time I restart the program; and what’s worse it insists on displaying on my streamer. Most things are highly configurable, but this is just irritating.
Thank you
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Could I please ask HOW DO I PERMANENTLY GET RID of this feature? I delete it from the Playlist section but it reappears every time I restart the program; and what’s worse it insists on displaying on my streamer. Most things are highly configurable, but this is just irritating.
Thank you
You can't.
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I see that’s a shame, thanks Jim.
Any hope that it may in the future be possible to hide it from the list and especially from the streamer?
Many thanks
Peter