INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 19 for Windows => Topic started by: Matt on July 19, 2013, 01:42:10 pm
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Overview
MC19 adds the ability to output any audio as DSD (or 2xDSD) to a DSD-capable DAC.
DSD is an alternative way to describe a sound wave. More here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD_Format
The argument for this new feature is that a DAC might do a better job with DSD than PCM. Certain DAC chips are always running in DSD mode and any incoming PCM will get converted to DSD by the DAC. If you instead do this conversion with a computer, you may be able to achieve higher quality.
JRiver does not have data to substantiate this argument. It is based on conversations with DAC manufacturers. Testing would be interesting.
How To Use
1) Make sure you have a DSD capable DAC
2) Configure the correct output mode in Options > Audio (ASIO is required for 2xDSD)
3) Pick DSD output encoding in DSP Studio > Output Format:
(http://files.jriver.com/images/2013/dsd_output_encoding.png)
Technical Notes
You will need a reasonably fast computer to use this option.
The PCM to DSD algorithm uses 64-bit floating point for all math (noise shaping, dither, etc.). Resampling is done using JRiver's audiophile grade resampler.
DSD encoding is only possible during audio playback, not video playback.
The loudness between DSD and PCM may vary, due to the nature of DSD encoding and due to hardware differences.
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Working Great! ;)
Thank you,
SH
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Hi Matt,
Would it be possible including the real-time DSD output under Options->Output Mode, without enabling the DSP studio?
Also, under Output Mode, the real-time DSD output module can provide the options for ASIO, KS or WASAPI, as well as DSD or DoP streaming mode and DSD64 or DSD128 rates.
I am just thinking about purer DSD output solution.
When DSD real time is enabled, would it be possible playing DSF and DSD ISO files without switching back to a different output mode?
Thanks!
Alex
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Would it be possible including the real-time DSD output under Options->Output Mode, without enabling the DSP studio?
Converting PCM to DSD requires DSP operations like resampling, so you can't avoid the use of some DSP.
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Converting PCM to DSD requires DSP operations like resampling, so you can't avoid the use of some DSP.
Certainly, I should be aware of this, since I have my own hardware PCM to DSD encoder. But I thought that, if similar to the offline DSD encoder that MC18 already provides, the new real-time encoder will be based on a separate module (that includes SRC, DSM and such), available at the output mode selections, instead of going through the main DSP that has many other features available.
For example, believe or not, even if the DSP Studio is enabled without doing anything, the sound quality is already compromised. Of course, this is the case with my audio system and to my ears. Go figure!
Thanks!
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Real-time PCM2DSD sounds like a really great feature!
Question:
If one is using the DSP functions like equalization, convolution, etc, do the DSP functions first get applied to the raw PCM, and then the DSP-massaged PCM gets converted to DSD?
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Will this PCM2DSD keep the same base freq? for example 44.1K ->2.8/5.6M and 48K ->3.0/6.1M, or will everything be resampled to 2.8/5.6M?
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Will it only be limited to DSD128??
Can it later be changed to DSD256 Please? There are some DACs like the exaSound e20, YuLong DA8 and Antelpe Audio Zodiac Platinum that can do DSD256. I know there are very few recordings done in DSD256 but support for upsampling to DSD256 would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
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If one is using the DSP functions like equalization, convolution, etc, do the DSP functions first get applied to the raw PCM, and then the DSP-massaged PCM gets converted to DSD?
Yes, all "effects" in the PCM domain, then converted to DSD.
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Will it only be limited to DSD128??
Can it later be changed to DSD256 Please? There are some DACs like the exaSound e20, YuLong DA8 and Antelpe Audio Zodiac Platinum that can do DSD256. I know there are very few recordings done in DSD256 but support for upsampling to DSD256 would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
I second this request - DSD256 would be very desirable!
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One more question about DSP effects:
What happens if the active crossover function is used with PCM2DSD?
Does each PCM stream get converted to a separate DSD stream?
I need an active crossover so would appreciate if someone knows the answer to this question!
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Is it possible that PCM can be output as DSD in the NATIVE form, not via Dop but Raw-DSD in ASIO?
I know Dop is supported by almost every DSD DAC, but Native DSD in ASIO still has better result than Dop, which might benefit mytek 192 DSD, Teac UD 501, or any DAC that can play DSD in native form.
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Is it possible that PCM can be output as DSD in the NATIVE form, not via Dop but Raw-DSD in ASIO?
I know Dop is supported by almost every DSD DAC, but Native DSD in ASIO still has better result than Dop, which might benefit mytek 192 DSD, Teac UD 501, or any DAC that can play DSD in native form.
You can pick DoP (using any hardware direct output) or 2xDSD (using ASIO).
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Thanks for this great feature !
I was wondering if you could add a DSD output format in the DLNA server in order to convert PCM to DSD for a network player (Lumin for me).
Thank you
Maxime
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I bought the MC19. So far I have used the MC17.
I have a few SACD rip albums. Iso format.
I use a Lynx AES16 sound card and Berkeley Alpha DAC.
The MC adjust output format 2xDSD in native format.
However, the MC does not want to play natively. ASIO and WASAPI occur that can not play the 352.8 kHz, 64 bit, 2 chanel files.
I understand that my DAC does not support DSD files, but Foobar2000 without problems play the files (after installing SACD decoder) at sample rates of 88.2 kHz.
MC plays the files only when restricting sample rate to 192 kHz in the output format window, however, it seems to me that the sound is not good.
Is there an optimal solution to the problem?
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Please download and install MC18. It will use your MC19 license if you do a restore.
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Is it possible that PCM can be output as DSD in the NATIVE form, not via Dop but Raw-DSD in ASIO?
I know Dop is supported by almost every DSD DAC, but Native DSD in ASIO still has better result than Dop, which might benefit mytek 192 DSD, Teac UD 501, or any DAC that can play DSD in native form.
DoP and DSD should sound exactly the same.
I have a few SACD rip albums. Iso format.
I use a Lynx AES16 sound card and Berkeley Alpha DAC.
This hardware does not support DSD, and is limited to 192kHz PCM.
The MC adjust output format 2xDSD in native format.
However, the MC does not want to play natively. ASIO and WASAPI occur that can not play the 352.8 kHz, 64 bit, 2 chanel files.
The options listed in the first post are for people that want to convert audio to DSD, not from DSD.
I understand that my DAC does not support DSD files, but Foobar2000 without problems play the files (after installing SACD decoder) at sample rates of 88.2 kHz.
MC plays the files only when restricting sample rate to 192 kHz in the output format window, however, it seems to me that the sound is not good.
Is there an optimal solution to the problem?
Change the "Greater than 192,000Hz" option in output format, to one that you prefer. If your hardware supports it, you may want 176.4kHz, or if you want to match Foobar2000, you could select 88.2kHz.
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can anyone suggest the correct configuration for the Teac ud-501 and 2xDSD,
I am unable to get this to work. :(
conversion to DSD 2.8 is working fine ( using DoP )
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can anyone suggest the correct configuration for the Teac ud-501 and 2xDSD,
I am unable to get this to work. :(
conversion to DSD 2.8 is working fine ( using DoP )
Have you tried the UD-501 in NOS filter mode?
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Hi Matt,
Thanks for adding this feature.
Any chance you will soon support Quad-rate DSD256?
The Exasound and Antelope DSD DACs support this.
thanks.
Overview
MC19 adds the ability to output any audio as DSD (or 2xDSD) to a DSD-capable DAC.
DSD is an alternative way to describe a sound wave. More here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD_Format
The argument for this new feature is that a DAC might do a better job with DSD than PCM. Certain DAC chips are always running in DSD mode and any incoming PCM will get converted to DSD by the DAC. If you instead do this conversion with a computer, you may be able to achieve higher quality.
JRiver does not have data to substantiate this argument. It is based on conversations with DAC manufacturers. Testing would be interesting.
How To Use
1) Make sure you have a DSD capable DAC
2) Configure the correct output mode in Options > Audio (ASIO is required for 2xDSD)
3) Pick DSD output encoding in DSP Studio > Output Format:
(http://files.jriver.com/images/2013/dsd_output_encoding.png)
Technical Notes
You will need a reasonably fast computer to use this option.
The PCM to DSD algorithm uses 64-bit floating point for all math (noise shaping, dither, etc.). Resampling is done using JRiver's audiophile grade resampler.
DSD encoding is only possible during audio playback, not video playback.
The loudness between DSD and PCM may vary, due to the nature of DSD encoding and due to hardware differences.
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No problems using MC19 so far PCM/ SACD all sound great (ASIO), but I’ve tried different settings and get distortion while the music is playing using 2XDSD or DoP in Output Encoding.
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No problems using MC19 so far PCM/ SACD all sound great (ASIO), but I’ve tried different settings and get distortion while the music is playing using 2XDSD or DoP in Output Encoding.
I disabled Fidelizer and everything sounds fine now. Don't know why, works fine with jriver normally.
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Have you tried the UD-501 in NOS filter mode?
No (then yes, just tried PCM filter off) , not sure why the filter mode would have any effect ?
based on some searching, it appears the asio driver for the teac is only 2.1.
could this be the reason it wont support 2xDSD ?
when I open the asio driver control panel (version 1.02) , it shows the sampling rate as 176000 (instead of
352800 ?)
Note: the error i am receiving is :
Playback Problem. the ASIO device "Teac Asio Driver" does not support the sample rate of 705600 hz
I know the Teac will do dsd128, but I have only been able to play through the TEAC HR player and
get it to work. Playing the same tracks through JR ( 18 or 19 ) will fail?
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Just to confirm that DSD in DoP format seems to be working fine on my Benchmark DAC2 HGC, and all the right lights light up on the DAC. Splendid!
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Just to confirm that DSD in DoP format seems to be working fine on my Benchmark DAC2 HGC, and all the right lights light up on the DAC. Splendid!
Do you get pops and clicks when starting or stopping DoP playback? (bitstreamed or encoded)
MC19 has been worse for me than MC18 in that regard. (Much louder, and more frequent)
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You can pick DoP (using any hardware direct output) or 2xDSD (using ASIO).
Thanks, Matt. I've got the DSPed DSD output by the setting your mentioned. But when I chose 2xDSD output in the DSP page, normal DSD files can be played, but in the audio path window, it said the output is still 1xDSD not 2xDSD. Could I make 1xDSD output as 2xDSD? Thanks!
When I began to play the first DSD file in a DSD music list, there are some twisted sounds at the beginning and then followed by the music (However, the second DSD file would play without any twisted sound.) and a loud pop sound when I stop playing it by press stop button.
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Do you get pops and clicks when starting or stopping DoP playback? (bitstreamed or encoded)
MC19 has been worse for me than MC18 in that regard. (Much louder, and more frequent)
Yes I have noticed some light ticks when starting a track. More disconcertingly, I've just been through a patch of clicks and pops or dropouts every 30 secs to 2 mins when converting on the fly. Didn't happen when playing same track pre-converted. Alarmed, I tried a second machine with same problems. Reinstalled MC19 on machine 1, turned DAC on and off a couple of times, and now problem-free apart from the 'tick' a couple of seconds into a track. Not a clue why. Perhaps the DAC was upset. Both Windows 8 machines, one with an SSD. Will try more when I'm not wanting to listen to music properly. JRMark on one machine 1967, on the second 1136.
Edited to add: Just had another 'click' after I Saved this.
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It's a great feature! Unfortunately, the sound disconnected periodically for every three seconds. Is it a lack of PC's CPU power?
CPU: Core2Quad Q6600 (2.4G)
OS: Windows 7 Pro 64bit
DAC: Korg DS-DAC-10
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Hello
i have a DAC marantz NA11-S1. on the MC18i used the DoP and now the MC19 propose the 2xDSD, for you what is the best setup ?
If i choose the 2xDSD does i need to launch the asio driver ?
Now when i launch a flac 44.1, my DAC screen shwo DSD 2.8M and before it was normal with 44.1 mhz
thank you
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Note: the error i am receiving is :
Playback Problem. the ASIO device "Teac Asio Driver" does not support the sample rate of 705600 hz
I know the Teac will do dsd128, but I have only been able to play through the TEAC HR player and
get it to work. Playing the same tracks through JR ( 18 or 19 ) will fail?
I am having similar problem as you with the TEAC UD-501, not able to use 2xDSD (5.6MHz) upsampling (1xDSD/2.8MHz upsamping works fine). However, a 2xDSD (5.6MHz) track that I have plays fine and the UD-501's display did indicate 5.6MHz.
I tried the followed things, but still does not work:
1. Set output device to "TEAC ASIO USB DRIVER [ASIO]"
2. Different buffer settings
3. Set bitstreaming format to "DSD" or "DSD over PCM (DoP)"
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Thanks for keeping your word and inlcuding PCM to DSD real time conversion. I just tested it and must say, I still get the best sound with Kernelstreaming output without converting to DSD. My DAC should be better or at least as good with DSD (BurrBrown DSD1794). Maybe a rework of the conversion alorithm could help but this is not easy and may be worth a doctoral thesis to make it right.
Anyway, keep up your good work!
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I am having similar problem as you with the TEAC UD-501, not able to use 2xDSD (5.6MHz) upsampling (1xDSD/2.8MHz upsamping works fine). However, a 2xDSD (5.6MHz) track that I have plays fine and the UD-501's display did indicate 5.6MHz.
You will need a fast computer to use real-time output at 2xDSD. There's not an exact number, but a JRMark of 3000 (Help > Benchmark) is probably a good baseline.
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I just tested it and must say, I still get the best sound with Kernelstreaming output without converting to DSD.
I got the best sound with this configuration, too. My DAC is a Yulong SABRE DA8 (ES9018).
I believe that upsampling (either PCM or DSD) results will vary according to the DAC.
It is good to have the choice to use it or not.
Great work!
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I just tested it and must say, I still get the best sound with Kernelstreaming output without converting to DSD.
I got the best sound with this configuration, too. My DAC is a Yulong SABRE DA8 (ES9018).
I believe that upsampling (either PCM or DSD) results will vary according to the DAC.
It is good to have the choice to use it or not.
Great work!
I tried the DoP realtime output with a different amplifier and now think DoP sounds better. So it is good one can choose.
Thanks again!
PS.: I must say that the new amplifier is more resolving in the mids and highs and I realy think that this DoP real time processing is an improvement. The sound is cleaner with more details and dynamics.
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Maybe I should have posted this here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83101.0), but I have the same issues with 2xDSD on the Teac as mentioned above.
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I second this request - DSD256 would be very desirable!
Third it :) Love my Exasound! Please please make support for DSD256 =)
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Has anyone tested this with an Exasound dac yet ?
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Seem to have just about fixed my clicks and pops by playing with buffering and power plan.
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I have a Dac that only support native 1xDSD, if I use DoP I get pop and flickering in the sound. 2xDSd is not supported. Has a matter of fact, when i set to DoP and convert a 44.1Khz, i get problem, converted 24/192 is much better and of course, direct DSD is perfect.
Will we get 1xDSD in Native format as a choice?
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I have a Dac that only support native 1xDSD, if I use DoP I get pop and flickering in the sound.
What is your JRmark score? Help Menu > Benchmark
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=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 4,429 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 2,643 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 4,433 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 2,634 seconds
Score: 1344
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0,332 seconds
Flood filling... 1,322 seconds
Direct copying... 3,023 seconds
Small renders... 2,114 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 2,495 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 1,742 seconds
Score: 1995
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0,739 seconds
Populate database... 2,533 seconds
Save database... 0,662 seconds
Reload database... 0,211 seconds
Search database... 2,097 seconds
Sort database... 1,522 seconds
Group database... 0,991 seconds
Score: 2455
JRMark (version 19.0.32): 1931
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That is on the low end of things, your pc might not be fast enough to encode for DoP output.
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But what about being able to output 1xDSD native, I do not want DoP, will it be possible, My DAC is 64DSD native
Thanks
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I want to share my long time experiences with the DSD realtime output. To sum it up, as I first used it, I was not convinced it sounds better (as I posted before). Now I couldn't live without it. The sound is much more natural. There is no going back. Thanks a lot for this great feature. MC19 now is, in this configuration, by far the best sounding software player I know (and I tried all windows based players, beeing a computer audiophile from the very beginning)
Best Regards
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But what about being able to output 1xDSD native, I do not want DoP, will it be possible, My DAC is 64DSD native
Thanks
Currently only 2xDSD output is supported native, 1xDSD is output as DoP.
I've seen requests for 2xDSD as DoP and 1xDSD native. Would be nice to have but its currently not possible.
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But what about being able to output 1xDSD native, I do not want DoP, will it be possible, My DAC is 64DSD native
Thanks
Which DAC do you own?
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That is on the low end of things, your pc might not be fast enough to encode for DoP output.
Wht would be the appropriate configuration then? By the way it work much better witha 24/192'
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Which DAC do you own?
i have a good old dCS Elgar plus with a converter that goes from USB to SDIF-2, the Elgar support native DSD true its SDIF-2 inputs. The converter work very fine.
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Wht would be the appropriate configuration then? By the way it work much better witha 24/192'
I'm not sure, its been suggested around 3000 would be a good measure but its not a guarantee.
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i have a good old dCS Elgar plus with a converter that goes from USB to SDIF-2, the Elgar support native DSD true its SDIF-2 inputs. The converter work very fine.
Hi, I've read your thread on computeraudiophile. I also use exD converter to convert USB to SDIF. My Dac is Emmlabs DCC2 SE, which can play native DSD as well. The exD can take Dop form and convert Dop into Native DSD and play via Emmlabs DCC2 SE without any issue.
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Hi, I've read your thread on computeraudiophile. I also use exD converter to convert USB to SDIF. My Dac is Emmlabs DCC2 SE, which can play native DSD as well. The exD can take Dop form and convert Dop into Native DSD and play via Emmlabs DCC2 SE without any issue.
Oh good to ear John, so I will check to upgrade the Pc then, thank for your input
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I'm not sure, its been suggested around 3000 would be a good measure but its not a guarantee.
Can you tell me on what type (configuration) you got a 3000? thanks
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Please have a look in the JRMark thread (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=54396.0).
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I am having similar problem as you with the TEAC UD-501, not able to use 2xDSD (5.6MHz) upsampling (1xDSD/2.8MHz upsamping works fine). However, a 2xDSD (5.6MHz) track that I have plays fine and the UD-501's display did indicate 5.6MHz.
I tried the followed things, but still does not work:
1. Set output device to "TEAC ASIO USB DRIVER [ASIO]"
2. Different buffer settings
3. Set bitstreaming format to "DSD" or "DSD over PCM (DoP)"
Exact same problem as you when using Teac ASIO driver. I can get 2xDSD using a different driver that is unsupported by JRiver. The DAC will definitely do 5.6, maybe hope for a driver update? If I'm honest I can't hear any difference between the two anyway, but it irritated me that I couldn't get it to work.
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Exact same problem as you when using Teac ASIO driver. I can get 2xDSD using a different driver that is unsupported by JRiver. The DAC will definitely do 5.6, maybe hope for a driver update? If I'm honest I can't hear any difference between the two anyway, but it irritated me that I couldn't get it to work.
Have a read here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83101.0), there is a workaround for 2xDSD native provided. Also, I have opened a support case with Teac in the hopes they either fix it or work with JRiver to get it fixed. You could submit you're own support case and reference the thread I linked.
Matt has also been making progress on working around the issues with the Teac driver which fixed bitstreaming 1xDSD native.
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Hi
As this is my first post: Thanks for a great product!
In PCM2DSD, is it possible to output 2xDSD in multichannel? As I play multchannel files audio path monitor shows "converting from 5 channels to 2" and the music plays as 2 channel 2xDSD through exa28.
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Have notice some distortion converting PCM to DSD and DSDx2.
Have a track which is quite loud in the bass at the beginning, sounds perfect direct PCM, but obvious distortion when being converted to DSD. When I turn down JRiver's internal volume just a little, distortion goes away. I have DSP and volume disabled. JRiver is set ASIO/native DSD to a mytek DSD DAC.
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Have notice some distortion converting PCM to DSD and DSDx2.
Have a track which is quite loud in the bass at the beginning, sounds perfect direct PCM, but obvious distortion when being converted to DSD. When I turn down JRiver's internal volume just a little, distortion goes away. I have DSP and volume disabled. JRiver is set ASIO/native DSD to a mytek DSD DAC.
Does DSD play louder than PCM on your DAC? It may be that it's applying +6dB and clipping.
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Does DSD play louder than PCM on your DAC? It may be that it's applying +6dB and clipping.
Yep, DSD does play louder, but not noticed distortion for proper DSD files.. yet. i set the mytek in volume bypass (no analogue/digital volume), but if select mytek's own digital volume, and turn it down by -3dB, distortion goes, mytek's analogue volume doesn't help either way. not sure if this is happens with proper DSD files, or jriver PCM to DSD conversion is just a little hotter than what is standard? i believe the distortion is in the digital domain, and not mytek's analogue stage.
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Yep, DSD does play louder, but not noticed distortion for proper DSD files.. yet. i set the mytek in volume bypass (no analogue/digital volume), but if select mytek's own digital volume, and turn it down by -3dB, distortion goes, mytek's analogue volume doesn't help either way. not sure if this is happens with proper DSD files, or jriver PCM to DSD conversion is just a little hotter than what is standard? i believe the distortion is in the digital domain, and not mytek's analogue stage.
The majority of DSD files are mastered so that there will be at least 6dB of headroom when converting to PCM. It may be that Media Center needs an option to reduce the volume of PCM by a fixed amount (most commonly 6dB) when encoding to DSD.
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any other Mytek users having clipping with JRiver PCM to DSD conversion? could it be just a rare case with one particular PCM track, but kinda doubt that.
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Hey Matt and Co
Any chance on DSD512 for PCM2DSD soon? I have a Yulong A8 on the way and will have to use Signalyst for the time being to play with upsampling.
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This works great for me with PCM files. But when I try to play a SACD ISO, it buffers each track for a while and then skips to the next track without playing anything (and does so sequentially with every track on the ISO). SACD ISOs play fine when the output is not configured to convert output to DSD. I know I can set up zones to change the output configuration based on file size, but that seems like an unnecessary step. What do you recommend?
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Addendum to my prior note: turns out that, while double-clicking on the track produces the "buffering" non-play problem, clicking on the play button while that same track is selected plays it just fine! This only happens with SACD ISO and DSF or DFF files, does not happen with PCM files.
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any other Mytek users having clipping with JRiver PCM to DSD conversion? could it be just a rare case with one particular PCM track, but kinda doubt that.
Yes, I have clipping with PCM to DSD conversion using MC19 Mytek on some material. I can't convert to 2xDSD with the MC19 using the Mytek ASIO driver. Please share configuration if you could do 2xDSD.
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Yep, DSD does play louder, but not noticed distortion for proper DSD files.. yet. i set the mytek in volume bypass (no analogue/digital volume), but if select mytek's own digital volume, and turn it down by -3dB, distortion goes, mytek's analogue volume doesn't help either way. not sure if this is happens with proper DSD files, or jriver PCM to DSD conversion is just a little hotter than what is standard? i believe the distortion is in the digital domain, and not mytek's analogue stage.
Since I have not upgraded to MC19 which has the option of upsampling PCM to DSD, I have not experienced the reported distortion in DSD. However, I will say that I was comparing a number of tracks in both PCM and DSD (with the same provenance) and others among the listeners indicated that some of the tracks seems to be distorted. I have already installed the jumpers on the Mytek which as I understand it reduces the output of the "pro" default by 6dB to a more consumer oriented 2.5VRms output. For purposes of the comparison the Mytek was set to bypass which would be my preferred default setting.
Not sure whether its related but understand that one of the latest versions of MC19 has incorporated a 1.6dB reduction in output(?) to improves its operation (sound quality?) with Sabre-based DACs like the Mytek. Not sure what triggered this reduction or what affect it has on Sabre-based DACs.
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Not sure whether its related but understand that one of the latest versions of MC19 has incorporated a 1.6dB reduction in output(?) to improves its operation (sound quality?) with Sabre-based DACs like the Mytek. Not sure what triggered this reduction or what affect it has on Sabre-based DACs.
This reduction means that DSD Encoding is played back at -6.0 dB now, as it turns out that those DACs (and likely most/all DSD DACs) were applying a +6dB adjustment with DSD playback, causing the distortion people were hearing.
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This reduction means that DSD Encoding is played back at -6.0 dB now, as it turns out that those DACs (and likely most/all DSD DACs) were applying a +6dB adjustment with DSD playback, causing the distortion people were hearing.
I mispoke in my original post re the internal jumpers of the Mytek... The installed jumpers reduce the Output Voltage from 6Vrms (not 6dB) down to the 2.5Vrms more typical of most DAC outputs. From what I am told, the 6Vrms output could potentially overload (some) preamps.
Sorry to say I am struggling to understand the answer provided above re what the 1.6dB reduction in the output of current versions of MC19 will accomplish for someone like myself using MC with a Sabre-based DAC and would the upgrade from MC18 be significant? I do not understand the significance of most of the enhancements listed for MC19 but assume most would be transparent to the average user.
Thanks.
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Thanks for making this feature, couple of questions:
Is there a chance this can damage hearing equipment, you say on your wiki that DSD contains frequencies that can?
Also, is there any way to make it only use the DSD feature when DSD is playing (so DSD is DSD and ape is ape, for example)?
Thanks guys.
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Is there a chance this can damage hearing equipment, you say on your wiki that DSD contains frequencies that can?
DSD encoding is no different from regular DSD playback.
Also, is there any way to make it only use the DSD feature when DSD is playing (so DSD is DSD and ape is ape, for example)?
That would be DSD bitstreaming, which is found under Tools > Options > Audio > Bitstreaming > Custom
DSD Encoding is to allow playback of all audio, whether it is DSD native or not, to be played back as DSD.
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Is there a chance this can damage hearing equipment, you say on your wiki that DSD contains frequencies that can?
Under Tools/Options/Audio/Advanced Section (bottom), Configure Input Plugin choose JRiver DSD Plugin. This is to configure the low pass plugin JRiver uses when decoding DSD files for playback and/or DSP processing (not used during bitstreaming). This filter is to prevent the high frequency noise that can cause distortion or maybe damage equipment.
If with hearing equipment you mean hearing aid and you're concerned that certain high frequencies might be uncomfortable or damaging, you could use MC's parametric EQ to set an even lower low pass filter.
When you choose to bitstream DSD and play other files "as is", note that no processing is performed by MC. All high frequency noise is passed to your DAC.
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This report+inquiry was moved from the "JRiver Media Center 19.0.56 -- Available Here" Topic discussion site.
Now I could smoothly update to MC19.0.56.
I am using Korg DS-DAC-10 with its ASIO driver, and Output Encoding by "2XDSD in native format", Bitstreaming = None, to play all of the audio files by real-time up-sampling to DSD 5.6 MHz 1 bit for DS-DAC-10. When I play DSD 2.8 MHz file, MC19 automatically give DSD 2.8 MHz output which I can confirm by LEDs of DS-DAC-10. Now, therefore, the audio file play back with MC19 and DS-DAC-10 is just perfect for me.
When I play a mp4 video clip, the video movie is smoothly shown on the screen, but the audio track of the video clip is played in its native format, ex. 44.1 KHz 16 bit PCM, so that I need to manually change DS-DAC-10's mode to PCM in order to hear the mp4. As I am setting all of the audio files by "2XDSD in native format" real-time up-sampling, I also would like to hear the mp4's audio track in "2XDSD in native format" up-sampling. Even if I set the Bitstreaming to "DSD" mode, mp4 files cannot be played by "2XDSD" but are still played in PCM format.
Is it possible to have any setting that audio track of mp4 would be just treated as other audio files, and can be also played in Output Encoding by "2XDSD in native format"?
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It's a great feature! Unfortunately, the sound disconnected periodically for every three seconds. Is it a lack of PC's CPU power?
CPU: Core2Quad Q6600 (2.4G)
OS: Windows 7 Pro 64bit
DAC: Korg DS-DAC-10
Hello yasukato,
My DS-DAC-10 is working very smoothly on this feature even with CPU Core i5 2390T（Max.DTP 35W, HT-on 4 thread）, Memory 16 GB.
in Japanese;
http://bbs.kakaku.com/bbs/K0000430291/SortID=16674191/
Have you tried tools-options-Audio-Audio Device-Device settings-Buffering=500 milliseconds, -Bitstreaming: None, and -Play files from memory instead of disk (not zone-specific)=ON ? I am also setting with the "Korg DS-DAC-10 Control Panel", Streaming Buffer Size=Large, Asio Buffer Size=Large.
How are you accessing to your audio files, local SATA HDD, USB connected external HDD, NAS DLNA, network mounted drive, iSCSI mounted virtual network drive, or others? Have you checked the I/O throughput for file access, ex. by CrystalDiskMark?
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I'm excited about using this feature but the DAC I'm considering (the Auralic Vega) apparently only receives DSD over DoP. Therefore, it appears that JRiver, with DoP v1.0, would limit me to upsampling to DSD64.
Apparently there is a DoP v1.1 that allows streaming of DSD128. http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard
Is this something that can be implemented in JRiver?
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Vega supports DSD 128 over DoP.
Also, Vega manual shows you can do ASIO DSD.
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You can pick DoP (using any hardware direct output) or 2xDSD (using ASIO).
I'm confused. Based on this statement and my experience, I'm not sure what is at fault. I can't seem to get ASIO DSD Bitstreaming (not DoP) to do PCM2DSD in JRMC19 with the Aurali Vega ASIO USB driver.
The VEGA needs DoP and does support DSD128 via DoP, it doesn't accept raw DSD, so the on the fly conversion to DSD128 doesn't work. However, if you use the foo ASIO proxy as outlined on Archimago's page on doing this with the Teac US-501 it works perfectly, at least in my system. The VEGA reports DSD128 if using this method and I find the results quite nice. I have demoed this for a few folks are most all are surprised at the difference.
If I use the Foobar ASIO proxy. It works. Matt can you shine a light on this? Is it the Vega ASIO?
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Apparent there are some buffer issues with the TEAC driver and native ASIO, and at this point MC19 isn't supporting a 2xDSD upsampling with DoP option.
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/09/howto-getting-jriver-mc19-2xdsd.html
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You no longer need ASIOProxy installed. The problems with the native ASIO driver and 2xDSD have been solved a couple of builds ago.
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Doesn't work for me with Auralic Vega ASIO driver. I will post screenshots later.
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Auralic informed me:
We only support DoP protocol no matter if you use WASAPI or ASIO, the only confusion is JRiver as they do not support DoP though ASIO.
To clarify, PCM2DSD at DSDx2 does not work for me with Auralic USB ASIO driver, but it does work with the Foobar. I'm new to DSD so trying to keep up.
http://www.auralic.com/download/dsd_playback_setup.pdf
@Inflatable Mouse - I can do DSD64/128 with Dop In JRMC19 recent build, but not PCM2DSD.
MC19 isn't supporting a 2xDSD upsampling with DoP option.
This true?
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When I enable DSDx2 upsampling I'm getting this when playing native DSD files; it seems JRMC19 is trying to process them but should ignore?
(http://i.imgur.com/kgOPo9cl.jpg)
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When you enable output format in JRiver it will process audio and therefore, it will have to convert to PCM internally. So native DSD files will be converted to PCM and then back to DSD for output.
If you want JRiver to leave DSD files untouched you need to enable bitstreaming for DSD. But you will loose any advantage of volume leveling and other DSP processing features.
To me (YMMV), volume leveling is too valuable and I believe the conversion from DSD to PCM and back is essentially lossless (but maybe not bit perfect, whatever that means ;) ). The advantages of DSD lie in how the DAC deals with it and not so much in the source being DSD. In other words, outputting PCM sources as DSD will gain that advantage as well. Here's a good article (http://archimago.blogspot.nl/2013/09/measurements-pcm-to-dsd-upsampling.html) that might explain some of this.
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I think I understand. Unlike DoP settings, the bitstreaming won't just skip over the native DSD.
one solution might be to use the zoneswitch feature?
Just have dsf dff set to a zone not doing PCM>DSD
I like hearing different amplitudes on various recordings, I find it informative, if a bit annoying :)
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Zoneswitch won't work very well in this case. Imagine playing a playlist that contains dsd files and flacs/mp3's ::)
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Zoneswitch won't work very well in this case. Imagine playing a playlist that contains dsd files and flacs/mp3's ::)
Isn't that the point? I could do DSD2PCM for everything, then tell only DSF/DFF (SACD ISO) files to be played in a "native DSD" zone using Dop etc.
I'm probably missing something... ;D
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Try it out see what happens ;D.
When you add a mixed playlist, some files will go to zone A and others will go to zone B. But playback can't start on both zones so one zone will play and the other will generate an error. Either way, your original playlist order will be screwed and you'll be missing some files that went to the other zone.
Playlists can't play over multiple zones and keep their playback order. The Zones feature wasn't meant for this.
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I have a question, is it possible to bitstream native DSD from PC (Realtek ALC889) connected via HDMI to AVR Onkyo 905 (DSD capable)
On official Realtek site I found this:
The ALC889 complies with the latest Microsoft Windows Vista Premium requirements, and offers DSD (Direct Stream Digital) format support and Full Rate Blu-Ray/HD DVD playback capabilities.
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Some posts were split to a new thread
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Some posts were split to a new thread
Jim,
Do you think you could add a link to the new thread when you do a split? I tihnk you already do that sometimes but not always.
The reason is that because the posts are read it won't show under 'show unread posts' and since its a new thread I also loose my subscription for new posts.
I think the only way to find it is by browsing the forums and make an educated guess as to where you moved it and what subject you gave it, or by going to my profile, my posts and find a post from that thread. Neither are very convenient.
Thanks!
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I often do, but not always. I assumed you could find the thread.
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I appear to have made a mess of things...
If I enable the output encoding with what appear to be the appropriate selection for my DAC, a Luxman DA-06, which looks to me like 2X DSD in DoP would be the appropriate choice. However, what happens then is all my Red Book are up sampled into DSD @55.4mHz and I would prefer to play my red Book in their native 35.2. If I set the output encoding to "none" I get no DSD processing at all.
What am I missing in my set up that would let red book play at it's native red book and DSD or DSD or 2XDSD at their respective native output?
Thanks
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I appear to have made a mess of things...
If I enable the output encoding with what appear to be the appropriate selection for my DAC, a Luxman DA-06, which looks to me like 2X DSD in DoP would be the appropriate choice. However, what happens then is all my Red Book are up sampled into DSD @55.4mHz and I would prefer to play my red Book in their native 35.2. If I set the output encoding to "none" I get no DSD processing at all.
What am I missing in my set up that would let red book play at it's native red book and DSD or DSD or 2XDSD at their respective native output?
Thanks
Output mode indeed converts everything to whatever you choose there.
To only output DSD as DSD, you need to enable bitstreaming under Tools/Options/Audio.
Remember though this will disable any processing done by MC (no volume leveling or equalizer). YOu can then leave Output mode to None to play PCM at their native sample rate.
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Hi.
I have recently purchased the Teac DAC UD-501 with native DSD / DoP support.
Using the updated Teac ASIO 1.02 driver works great with the latest JRiver 19.0.74 both for PCM and DSD.
Yet there is something I am missing regarding the JRiver DSP output encoding of PCM to DSD.
While I use the 2xDSD in DOP format for the PCM records the output Audio Path shows the following
Input : 44.1kHz 16bit 2ch from source ...
Changes : Encode as 2xDSD in DoP format
Output : 352.8 kHz 32bit 2ch using ASIO (direct connection)
Teac readings are all good as well : DSD 5.6MHz - DoP
However, while I change the DSP Output encoding to 2xDSD in native format, which I believe is a preferred way to transfer the stream to the UD-501, JRiver produces some kind of error message in the Audio Path -
Input : 44.1kHz 16bit 2ch from source ...
Changes : Encode as 2xDSD
Output : DSD 5.6MHz 1bit 2ch using ASIO (not using enough bits to output the input directly)
The DAC readings are still good : DSD 5.6Mhz native.
The DSD records bit-streaming works well both for x64 2.8MHz and x128 5.6MHz - showing in the JRiver audio path DSD 2.8MHz/5.6MHz 1bit 2ch using ASIO (bitstreaming) .
What does "not using enough bits to output the input directly" means ?
Is there any sound quality impact ? Or might it be a software glitch ?
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not using enough bits to output the input directly
Anyone ? ?
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Native DSD requires ASIO, but ASIO expects 32-bits but native DSD is 1-bit. I think this is why MC displays that message but it can be safely ignored.
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[]"not using enough bits to output the input directly"[]
Anyone ? ?
The input is 16-bits, and you are outputting a 1-bit signal, so you do not have enough bits to output the input signal "directly". (i.e. without conversion)
Rather than 44.1kHz, it's a 5.6448MHz signal though, so it can still represent the full original signal after conversion.
You would see the same thing if you were trying to output a 24-bit file at 16-bit for example. (but in that case it would be potentially lossy, because they are both PCM formats)
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DSD Noob :)
The PCM to DSD playback sounds mighty interesting.
I'm looking at purchasing a Schiit Loki DSD Dac to try the DSD stuff.
I'm currently running a
2013 Apple Macbook Air
1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 2.6GHz
Intel HD Graphics 5000
8GB memory
512GB flash storage1
The post states you need a reasonably fast computer to run PCM to DSD output.
Will my computer be powerful enough to run the PCM to DSD option on JRiver 19 Mac?
Interested to hear your comments.
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Will my computer be powerful enough to run the PCM to DSD option on JRiver 19 Mac?
Without a doubt.
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I just posted to the current build thread as I'm a bit confused about the DoP setting change:
4. Changed: Simplified DSD bitstreaming configuration so there's no need to pick DSD vs DoP (this is now controlled by the output plugin).
My Vega ASIO driver isn't working but DSD is selected (where DoP) used to be. You are saying to get DSD I must apply to all files? If I enable this with the new method, ALL PCM gets converted to DSD. There is no choice. Previously we could select DoP, and leave output format alone, everything played back in it's native format.
How do you configure just the DSD protocol for just DSD; Output Method applies to all file types.
Maybe there is a glitch somewhere...because something is not working properly, or it was overlooked.
Can others check. I know there are even a few Vega users here?
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Hello,
I try the MC with a TEAC ud-501 DAC before buying the software , i am interested in the DSD upsampling feature, my question is the following.
I can't activate this feature because my windows vista running is 32bit and i get the error message is can't open ASIO 64bit audio file...., Is there a trick to use 32bit processing instead of the 64bit in the sending of the file , or do i need to upgrade to 64bit windows to use this feature ?
Thank you
Best regards.
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Welcome to the forum. ASIO is a driver normally supplied by the manufacturer (Teac). Maybe you have the wrong driver?
The wiki has a topic called "DSD format".
64 bit Windows is not required.
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hi, thank you for your fast answer , I use the latest MC version 19.067 with windows vista ultimate 32bit SP2 4Go RAM Intel Core 2 CPU 6600 @ 2,4Ghz , i have configured MC as this
TEAC USB AUDIO DEVICE WASAPI
2x DoP DSD Capable DAC
Bitstream Custom Dop 1.0
THe files 44.1Khz upsampled to DSD128 are hashed or cut every half a second or randomly (forgive my bad english) but my TEAC UD-501 display correctly DoP DSD 5.6Mhz. but sound isn't listenable.
i 've checked the peak monitoring it runs from 10% to 85%, maybe it is the intel CPU not fast enough.?
Is there a good combination of ASIO, WASAPI, DIRECT,KERNEL driver ( mine is TEAC ver. 1.0) and DoP settings you are aware of?.
Thank you
Best regards.
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Hi again I solved the pb i've switched to my Mac Pro and test MC 19.100 2XDSD upsampling works like a charm...
Best.
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I was messing around with outputting double DSD to my Teac UD-501 and was running into a problem with frequent drop outs when playing files with higher than 44.1khz sample rates, and wanted to share my findings as it may help others with similar problems.
To make a long story short, the drop outs were the result of the DSD encoder - which is evidently being a single-threaded task which will only run on a single core - hitting 100% utilization of one of the four cores of my (re-purposed) Q6600 processor.
With 44.1khz files there were no drop outs as the load on the single core running the encoder wouldn't hit 100%, but with any file with a higher sample rate the increased processor load required by the encoder led to frequent drop outs which were identically timed with the single core hitting 100% utilization.
Applying a slight overclock to my processor provided enough extra single-core processing capacity so that my system is now running double DSD just fine, so if you're running into a problem with this, it's likely the result of your processor not having enough single core power to convert your files on-the-fly.
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It might be useful if you could post your JRMark score (Help → Benchmark…) so we have a better idea of what is required for DSD Encoding.
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You bet...quad core Intel Q6600:
=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 5.854 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 3.659 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 2.960 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 1.872 seconds
Score: 1325
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0.436 seconds
Flood filling... 1.400 seconds
Direct copying... 2.124 seconds
Small renders... 3.735 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 2.788 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 1.611 seconds
Score: 1819
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0.599 seconds
Populate database... 2.734 seconds
Save database... 0.284 seconds
Reload database... 0.087 seconds
Search database... 2.377 seconds
Sort database... 2.667 seconds
Group database... 1.545 seconds
Score: 2089
JRMark (version 19.0.104): 1744
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Not a very strong machine. Newer i7 based machines are around 5000.
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IIRC Matt once estimated the minimum JR score for real time DSD output to be around the 2500 mark, but I can't find his post anymore.
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this is absolutely a great feature!
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Not a very strong machine. Newer i7 based machines are around 5000.
Agreed - it's a 7-year old, then state-of-the-art, Core 2 Quad that was used for image processing and has now been re-purposed into a dedicated media server after it's replacement as our imaging system by an i7.
I found it interesting than when MC is running the benchmark, this quad core processor is so lightly utilized that it doesn't even bump the CPU out of the Intel Speed Step power saving mode (nor does the single threaded DSD encoder, for that matter) so the benchmark is only showing 60% of the capability of each core and the DSD encoder is only seeing 60% of the capacity of the single core unless Speed Step is manually disabled.
I posted to let others know that if they're running into performance problems with DSD encoding on an older system, that even if the system is running at a relatively low overall processor utilization of ~25 - 30% while encoding, if their drop outs are taking place with 100% utilization spikes on a single core, they may be able to fix the problem by bumping their single-core performance.
Cheers!
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I found it interesting than when MC is running the benchmark, this quad core processor is so lightly utilized that it doesn't even bump the CPU out of the Intel Speed Step power saving mode (nor does the single threaded DSD encoder, for that matter) so the benchmark is only showing 60% of the capability of each core and the DSD encoder is only seeing 60% of the capacity of the single core unless Speed Step is manually disabled.
That doesn't sound correct. The very instant I run the benchmark my CPU jumps from 1.6 to 3.4.
You mentioned you overclocked. Did you change any other settings? Maybe you could record your current settings and reset to optimized defaults.
Or,
try disabling speedstep entirely. Rerun the benchmark and check how DSD output works.
Honestly I think that score was a little too low for your cpu and thinking about it, I think it should do dsd output just fine.
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Yes, there does seem to be something strange happening as no matter what settings I use in BIOS - defaults or otherwise - as long as SpeedStep is enabled the ÇPU ratio won't jump from 6 to 9 as it should when it hits either the JR MC benchmark or DSD encoding. It does increase to 9 for other loads, just not for either the JR MC19 benchmark or encoding tasks.
With SpeedStep disabled and the processor running at stock clock speed, the benchmark result is much improved and the resulting single-thread performance is more than sufficient to run double DSD encoding without any 100% single thread peaks - it max's out at about 85% on the single core for a 24/192 file which appears to be the heaviest encoder load.
=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===
Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 4.686 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 2.938 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 2.389 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 1.504 seconds
Score: 1650
Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 0.361 seconds
Flood filling... 1.441 seconds
Direct copying... 2.144 seconds
Small renders... 2.981 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 2.264 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 1.304 seconds
Score: 2096
Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0.462 seconds
Populate database... 2.229 seconds
Save database... 0.231 seconds
Reload database... 0.071 seconds
Search database... 1.986 seconds
Sort database... 2.163 seconds
Group database... 1.281 seconds
Score: 2552
JRMark (version 19.0.108): 2099
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That looks better indeed.
Honestly I'm not sure why that happens on your pc, I don't think its supposed to stay low with speedstep enabled. Maybe you can search some other forums for similar problems.
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This'll probably put all questions to rest, but this re-purposed system is running Vista which doesn't seem to make very good use of SpeedStep. If I turn off SpeedStep and leave C1E state function turned on, the system now jumps between 6x and 9x multipliers (no scaling to intermediate steps, as SpeedStep is supposed to do), but it's running much better now.
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Time to upgrade to Windows 7 ;D
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I've actually seen much better power state management on Windows 8 than Windows 7. It seems to be far quicker at moving up to the highest power state and back down when it's no longer needed.
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Time to upgrade to Windows 7 ;D
This is a re-purposed machine that sits and runs Media Centre and would have little/no benefit from upgrading to W7 - I'd far rather put the funds into media than Microsoft. :D
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Is there a matematical way to convert PCM to DSD?
I mean, without losing anything from the PCM source?
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Is there a matematical way to convert PCM to DSD?
I mean, without losing anything from the PCM source?
Upconversion from PCM to DSD involves interpolating data to create a higher resolution. It doesn't add sound that wasn't there before but, done properly, it shouldn't lose anything from the PCM source either.
The benefit is that will allow a DAC that excels at DSD decoding to perform at its best.
Why do you belief that PCM to DSD conversion loses anything from the PCM source?
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Why do you belief that PCM to DSD conversion loses anything from the PCM source?
Larry Ho, from Light Harmonic (http://www.lightharmonic.com/), said about the new PS Audio DirectStream DAC (http://www.psaudio.com/directstream-dac/):
Convert everything to DSD? Sounds interesting but I need to point out one simple fact:
The reason Da Vinci Dual DAC use TWO engines to deal with PCM and DSD is because --
There is NO lossless conversion between DSD and PCM mathematically. Period.
So when you convert every PCM into DSD, you lost something, no matter how many times you do up-sampling.
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Will it only be limited to DSD128??
Can it later be changed to DSD256 Please? There are some DACs like the exaSound e20, YuLong DA8 and Antelpe Audio Zodiac Platinum that can do DSD256. I know there are very few recordings done in DSD256 but support for upsampling to DSD256 would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
I second this request - DSD256 would be very desirable!
I third this request! I would very much like to have DSD256 upsampling.
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HI, I've been trying to output DSD files and am getting no sound but a message. "Check DSP audio" My DAC is a LH Labs Geek Out 450. My computer is an Intel i5 running 4 G DDR ram. What changes must be made to JRiver MC? I tried a few changes and only got white noise. I'd like to run all audio in DSD to make it simple. I downloaded Just Listen files in DSD format wanted to know what all the fuss is about.
I'm using ASIO direct.
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When using real-time DSD output, if the source file's sample rate changes, JRiver stops and restarts... something (pardon my ignorance of the techincal details) internally.
This stopping and restarting generates an audible click or popping sound on every DAC I've tried (Schiit Loki, Auralic Vega, Lamipzator DSD, Matrix Sabre). Depending on the DAC, this sound can be a mild annoyance or worse.
Given that the output rate is fixed (1xDSD or 2xDSD), is it possible for JRiver to mask this process by sending out a constant "silent" signal to the DAC during the transition so that the DAC doesn't have to stop and restart along with JRiver?
I would appreciate that very much.
Thanks!
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When using real-time DSD output, if the source file's sample rate changes, JRiver stops and restarts... something (pardon my ignorance of the techincal details) internally.
This stopping and restarting generates an audible click or popping sound on every DAC I've tried (Schiit Loki, Auralic Vega, Lamipzator DSD, Matrix Sabre). Depending on the DAC, this sound can be a mild annoyance or worse.
Given that the output rate is fixed (1xDSD or 2xDSD), is it possible for JRiver to mask this process by sending out a constant "silent" signal to the DAC during the transition so that the DAC doesn't have to stop and restart along with JRiver?
I would appreciate that very much.
Thanks!
The issue is that changing input sample rates requires rebuilding the encoder so the device lock is lost. It would be tricky to avoid that.
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The issue is that changing input sample rates requires rebuilding the encoder so the device lock is lost. It would be tricky to avoid that.
But since there is no sound while it's being rebuilt, is it possible to send out some kind of generic silent/zero amplitude/all zeros (again forgive my lack of the right technical jargon) signal at either DSD64 or DSD128 for the brief moment while it's happening?
It would act to maintain the lock to the external device while JRiver rebuilds the encoder.
Thanks
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In MC19 the next track seems to be queued up about 10-20s before the current track finishes.
Would it not be possible to do it sooner so that there is a seamless transition, or as thediscman suggests, play DSD silence while MC is working on the conversion to prevent the connection to the DAC being broken?
After all, the DAC itself is only receiving a single sample rate, even if the input rate is changing.
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Hi, I wrote a question on June 13 and have not received a response yet. I've tried playing DSD files through MC 19. I'm using a LHLabs Geek Out DAC and only got noise once and total silence apart from that. I set the Output Encoding as outlined at the top of page 1 of this post. I keep getting a message that says the Geek Out cannot play "64 bit A 705.6 kHz for DSD 2x". Am I missing something in the set up or is there a step that I am omitting?
I'd like to hear for myself what all the hoopla is about DSD. My files are all in FLAC except for about 5 that I downloaded in DSD.
Help would be appreciated and welcomed. I am not a computer nerd so in simple step by step instructions please.
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Hi, I wrote a question on June 13 and have not received a response yet. I've tried playing DSD files through MC 19. I'm using a LHLabs Geek Out DAC and only got noise once and total silence apart from that. I set the Output Encoding as outlined at the top of page 1 of this post. I keep getting a message that says the Geek Out cannot play "64 bit A 705.6 kHz for DSD 2x". Am I missing something in the set up or is there a step that I am omitting?
Try 1xDSD instead of 2xDSD. It'll play at 352 kHz.
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Thanks for reply. I did not convert any of my FLAC files. I downloaded a few DSD files from the Net and tried those with no success. 1) Do I have to convert my FLAC files to DSD before playing them? 2) I thought MC converted the FLAC files on the fly? 3) Instructions are lacking, too much is taken for granted. 4) Is there a section in MC that gives clear and step by step instructions on something like this or is it only through the Forum that we get directions??? 5) Not all Forum users are computer literate to that degree, I'm a proof of that. I've repeated it before and will repeat again I need step by step instructions about doing this.
I'll try your suggestions and see what happens.
Thanks
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I've tried all the suggestions that I've received and still no DSD play back. I enabled DSD changed the the Output Format and the rest nothing seems to work. Do I need to configure a plu-In as on DSP Studio bottom left hand corner? Also when the changes are made do they have to be made each time I time on MC? Right now after all as failed I turn off MC and when I turn it back on all my old settings are there. I don't need to remove the attempt for DSD all as been removed, is the normal??
Is DSD play back that mnuch of an improvement over FLAC?? Is it worth all that I'm trying to do? I guess hearing the difference between DSD and FLAC will tell me if ever I get it to work.
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I've tried all the suggestions that I've received and still no DSD play back. I enabled DSD changed the the Output Format and the rest nothing seems to work. Do I need to configure a plu-In as on DSP Studio bottom left hand corner? Also when the changes are made do they have to be made each time I time on MC? Right now after all as failed I turn off MC and when I turn it back on all my old settings are there. I don't need to remove the attempt for DSD all as been removed, is the normal??
Is DSD play back that mnuch of an improvement over FLAC?? Is it worth all that I'm trying to do? I guess hearing the difference between DSD and FLAC will tell me if ever I get it to work.
If DSD output doesn't work in DSP Studio > Output Format, I don't know. It's possible your DAC requires a different format than we provide.
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Thanks finally for responding. I`ve been assured by LHLabs that the Geek Out should work with MC. Is it normal that the settings refer back back to the default settings once I close JR. The settings that I inputted to get DSD are no longer there but my originals settings are there?? If I ever get DSD to work I`d like to keep those settings seeing as that is the highest resolution. Why do they return to my pre DSD attempts?? I have the latest JR version.
Am I forgetting a step in the process to get DSD to play. I printed the directions from the first page of this post. Do I need to convert the files from FLAC to DSD before??
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Thanks finally for responding. I`ve been assured by LHLabs that the Geek Out should work with MC. Is it normal that the settings refer back back to the default settings once I close JR. The settings that I inputted to get DSD are no longer there but my originals settings are there?? If I ever get DSD to work I`d like to keep those settings seeing as that is the highest resolution. Why do they return to my pre DSD attempts?? I have the latest JR version.
Am I forgetting a step in the process to get DSD to play. I printed the directions from the first page of this post. Do I need to convert the files from FLAC to DSD before??
I assure you, DSD real-time output works just fine in both JRiver Media Center for Windows and Mac with the GeekOut. Literally all you do is select the device (on Mac, it's "GeekOut HD Audio IV0"), select Output Encoding as 2xDSD, and click "Play". Don't know why it's not working for you :(
Just to be clear, did you install the drivers needed for Windows? On Mac, there is no need for separate drivers, but under Windows you must install the drivers provided from the website.
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The drivers are ASIO v.2.2 I believe were installed with the Geek Out. It plays all other resolution except DSD. Why also don't my new settings stay when I close JR?? Is there another driver to install? I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit.
Matt on June 21 or 22 your answer was to run at 1xDSD instead of 2xDSD but that is not an option in the DSP box.
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I am really confused....here is my issue. I am using the latest version of MC19. I am using an iFi iDSD, When I open DSP studio I do not see the 'output encoding' box and options. It goes straight from 'output format' to 'sample rate'....I can play DSD files but the DAC advises I not getting playback in DSD...what am I doing wrong. What do I have set wrong??
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The first post in this topic has some instructions:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82074.0
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Alas, I am not being clear...My DSP studio screen has a box for 'output format' and under that it only has a 'sample rate' option....there is no 'output encoding' and nothing to select. I get music, just nothing is seen as DSD
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Here's a screenshot.
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Maybe you're bitstreaming? If so, MC doesn't convert.
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I decided to start anew. I reloaded the iDSD drivers, restarted the computer, and opened MC19 and the missing options have appeared. The DAC is now advising it is playing DSD...
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Can JR19 convert a DSD64 source in DSD128?
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Can JR19 convert a DSD64 source in DSD128?
It can, but it converts to PCM first.
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;) Hi , i am a new in writing , i have the version 19 of jriver ,.
With my DAC antiquated , hee ee ee ! I can hear the native file in DSD
DAC and this : Perpetual technologies PA-3 * PA1 power supply * P3B from the DAC esco in Coax , and i'm in the key of interfacing M2Tech Rev 1 , use Wasapi
thanks
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I tried to make this work in my setup, but it seems not possible. I'm using JRiver's DSP for 8 channel crossover and my output is "2 channels (inside 7.1 channel container)". If I change output encoding, the channel dropdown is disabled and it changes to "2 channels (stereo)". Even if I play DSD files, they all are converted to PCM. My DAC is Exasound e28.
Is it possible to play DSD files in my setup?
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I tried to make this work in my setup, but it seems not possible. I'm using JRiver's DSP for 8 channel crossover and my output is "2 channels (inside 7.1 channel container)". If I change output encoding, the channel dropdown is disabled and it changes to "2 channels (stereo)". Even if I play DSD files, they all are converted to PCM. My DAC is Exasound e28.
Is it possible to play DSD files in my setup?
An Exasound e28 should play DSD. What if you pick Options > Audio > Bitstreaming > DSD? That will send the DSD file as-is to the DAC.
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Sure it works - sound goes unfiltered to my midrange drivers (left and right channels), but then I can't use DSP to send signal to other channels and make crossover filters. I need DSD output after DSP processing for all 8 channels. Is it possible with MC19 or MC20?
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Sure it works - sound goes unfiltered to my midrange drivers (left and right channels), but then I can't use DSP to send signal to other channels and make crossover filters. I need DSD output after DSP processing for all 8 channels. Is it possible with MC19 or MC20?
Yes. Pick DSD from DSP Studio > Output Format > Output Encoding.
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Doesn't work. As I wrote, if I change output encoding, the channel dropdown box becomes inactive and it's value changes from "2 channels (inside 7.1 channel container)" to "2 channels (stereo)" and the sound goes only to 2 channels, and I can't change it back, because the channel dropdown is disabled.
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It's true that DSD encoding is 2 channel only.
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Could you change it, please, in near future so I can use it for all my 8 channels?
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How about the Oppo HA-2? Can that be connected to the PC and be used to playback in real time?
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I am using Windows MC19 with an Auralic Vega DAC. I chose WASAPI output with 2xDSD in DoP format. The sound is dull and lacklustre (with a lower volume as well) in comparison to playing the same file, say, with WMA. How can I correct it?
Also, I tried using ASIO as an alternative, but MC did not allow it, even though Vega supports it.
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Hi,
-Does enabling DSD output for everything mean that JRiver internal volume control works for DSD files?
-Is it possible to do this the other way around and have the JRiver server convert all PCM to DSD, then the renderer will just see all files as DSD anyway. Plus the server does the heavy lifting?
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You can pick DoP (using any hardware direct output) or 2xDSD (using ASIO).
Hi Matt, the setting of the options > bitstreaming: (none, HDMI, DSD ...) bit as no effect on this feature right?
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Hi,
-Does enabling DSD output for everything mean that JRiver internal volume control works for DSD files?
-Is it possible to do this the other way around and have the JRiver server convert all PCM to DSD, then the renderer will just see all files as DSD anyway. Plus the server does the heavy lifting?
I'm not 100% sure, but pretty sure still that any volume changes will be done before DSD output. I do not think MC is able to adjust volume on a dsd bitstream.
The other way around is something else entirely and that is not possible with output format (it just changes local output). Currently, real time conversion of files streamed to a client/renderer do not allow for configuring dsd. Its a nice feature request though if thats what you mean. It would allow clients to play DSD formats natively where they're not capable of converting to DSD themselves due to processing power constraints. The only way right now is to actually convert the files beforehand and set client audio conversion option to 'never convert' and set bitstream dsd on the client. I haven't actually tested this but Id be surprised if that didnt work.
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Hi Matt, the setting of the options > bitstreaming: (none, HDMI, DSD ...) bit as no effect on this feature right?
Correct, bitstream options are unaffected by output format.