INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 21 for Windows => Topic started by: JimH on November 26, 2014, 12:18:59 pm
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For instructions, please see the first post in the feature thread here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
Please post any problems here.
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Razer megalodon headphones.http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-megalodon
Will stop working some times. I have to stop the wdm zone. And hit play again. Sometimes I have to plugin the headphones. I don't have good reproducible step yet.
JRiver thinks it playing but it's not.
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Razer megalodon headphones.http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-megalodon
Will stop working some times. I have to stop the wdm zone. And hit play again. Sometimes I have to plugin the headphones. I don't have good reproducible step yet.
JRiver thinks it playing but it's not.
I have a similar issue. Getting the WDM to work is still hit or miss. Hopefully, rebuilding my system from scratch will remove the contributions that bloatware are playing to some of my MC issues. Have had to stop using WDM for WAF.
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I also have an issue with mc 20 wmd.
In control panel I have selected mc 20 as my default for audio playback, but when I go to internet explorer and try to play anything with audio, ie a movie trailer etc... I get no audio. do I have a setting wrong?
system default set to mc 20,
in mc 20 > options> audio> Realtek direct sound is selected.
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I also have a problem with mc 20 wmd.
In control panel I have selected mc 20 as my default for audio playback, but when I go to internet explorer and try to play anything with audio, ie a movie trailer etc... I get no audio. do I have a setting wrong?
system default set to mc 20,
in mc 20 > options> audio> Realtek direct sound is selected.
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I also have an issue with mc 20 wmd.
In control panel I have selected mc 20 as my default for audio playback, but when I go to internet explorer and try to play anything with audio, ie a movie trailer etc... I get no audio. do I have a setting wrong?
system default set to mc 20,
in mc 20 > options> audio> Realtek direct sound is selected.
My experience is that some applications that play to default audio device only do not switch if you change your default audio device when that application is running. I find it more reliable to close all instances of Internet Explorer, Chrome, Spotify or whatnot and restart playback after doing such audio device change. This behaviour is not linked to JRiver WDM, it is more the way Windows applications work.
EDIT: Typos
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I had configured a WDM zone, as in mwillems' guide.
However, after a few seconds of playing a video in MC, the screen would go blank (audio continued), and a message would appear at the bottom:
The display for this zone belongs to another window.
(Or some permutation of those words).
Since I'd had trouble with the WDM driver recently, I changed the windows default audio device to my AVR, same as the device used by MC.
The problem continued even after that.
Only when I deleted the WDM zone did the problem go away. Any idea what's going on?
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I have a question: if I wanted to play a game with the audio routing to WDM and listen to music in my JRiver library, what would be the best configuration for that? I've been using WASAPI with in non-exclusive mode for a while and that seems to let me play in both zones at the same time. But sometimes, playing a song in my non-IPC zone causes JRiver to look up and crash.
Is there a better configuration for what I want to do?.
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Quote from Trumpetguy Reply #5 on: November 27, 2014, 02:01:52 pm
"My experience is that some applications that play to default audio device only do not switch if you change your default audio device when that application is running. I find it more reliable to close all instances of Internet Explorer, Chrome, Spotify or whatnot and restart playback after doing such audio device change. This behaviour is not linked to JRiver WDM, it is more the way Windows applications work"
Thanks for the advice, I tried but it had no effect, still not getting internet explorer to play sound when I set my default sound to JRiver WDM, works fine with my normal default sound. can't figure out what the problem is....checked with other search engines, firefox, chrome, and have same issue. ?
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Quote from Trumpetguy Reply #5 on: November 27, 2014, 02:01:52 pm
"My experience is that some applications that play to default audio device only do not switch if you change your default audio device when that application is running. I find it more reliable to close all instances of Internet Explorer, Chrome, Spotify or whatnot and restart playback after doing such audio device change. This behaviour is not linked to JRiver WDM, it is more the way Windows applications work"
Thanks for the advice, I tried but it had no effect, still not getting internet explorer to play sound when I set my default sound to JRiver WDM, works fine with my normal default sound. can't figure out what the problem is....checked with other search engines, firefox, chrome, and have same issue. ?
Just a dumb question from me, you are doing the following, right?
1) Media Center 20 (WDM) as default audio device
2) Have JRiver MC running (or at least the media server), after setting your physical soundcard as output in MC.
3) Making sure MC is detecting the audio stream and starts playing "IPC".
?
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So I have to have JR 20 up and running, when I browse internet, to get sound when I am using mc 20 wdm as default sound device? If that is the case, call me major Tom, because I totally spaced that one.
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So I have to have JR 20 up and running, when I browse internet, to get sound when I am using mc 20 wdm as default sound device? If that is the case, call me major Tom, because I totally spaced that one.
You can just run the tray widget on startup (called "Media Server" in the startup options). MC has to be running in some way to handle the sound from the driver.
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No luck for me with this driver. Getting persistent skips and static that make it unusable. Tried different combos of buffer size/latency to no avail. Have the JRiver WDM driver set as default in Windows audio, and my physical sound card set as output in JRiver. Sources are generally website streaming players.
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On my system the WDM works very well for some sample rates but not with outhers.
I have audio device firmware and driver debug experience, and offer to lend you guys a hand. With MS's continuing lack of USB Audio Class 2 drivers, the WDM is a very important thing for audio consumers.
My: system: Player is JRMC17, DAC is www.henryaudio.com in USB Audio Class 2 ASIO mode, OS is Win7-64. Source: wav files converted to the 6 classical sample rates (44.1 up through 192) by JRMC17 or 18.
The DAC and source material work very well with MC 17 & 20 in normal operation. With 20.0.41's WDM and MC17 as the player it's OK with 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4ksps, but I get silence with 48, 96 and 192.
Setting the protocol to WASAPI event style in the player, the DAC (operating through WDM and ASIO driver) is correctly using those three sample rates (yeah! no resampling). With WASAPI (not event style) I get an unreliable playback. With Direct Sound I also get audio on 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4ksps material, but now everything is resampled to 44.1. With DS I also get silence on 48, 96 and 192.
I kind of expected DS to resample all 6 rates to the default sample rate set by the OS, and both kinds of WASAPI to forwared the source material 1:1 without sample rate conversion.
Best,
Børge
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You can just run the tray widget on startup (called "Media Server" in the startup options). MC has to be running in some way to handle the sound from the driver.
Thanks so much, working great now..... have been with jr for quite some time now, love your software, too bad my windows tablet does not have the juice to handle the program.... it only runs on atom processor with 2 gig of ram, rats...
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No luck for me with this driver. Getting persistent skips and static that make it unusable. Tried different combos of buffer size/latency to no avail. Have the JRiver WDM driver set as default in Windows audio, and my physical sound card set as output in JRiver. Sources are generally website streaming players.
Please try re-reading the instructions linked in the first post of this thread. A small buffer may work best.
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Please try re-reading the instructions linked in the first post of this thread. A small buffer may work best.
No luck, I tried 10ms.
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No luck for me with this driver. Getting persistent skips and static that make it unusable. Tried different combos of buffer size/latency to no avail. Have the JRiver WDM driver set as default in Windows audio, and my physical sound card set as output in JRiver. Sources are generally website streaming players.
No luck, I tried 10ms.
Did you try changing the settings in both the "live playback latency" advanced setting and the buffer in audio->device settings? Be methodical, try using a small buffer for live playback latency and a larger buffer for audio output, and then vice versa, then small for both, large for both, etc.
If you could explain what specific settings you've tried and not tried changing, it would be helpful in troubleshooting.
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The WDM driver no longer sets itself as the default on install. It's perfectly harmless to install.
You can install with /NoDriver if that's not good enough for you.
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Hi all, a question from a nontechnical user.
I run Windows 8.1 and use a USB DAC and headphone amp combo (Burson Audio HA160D). I have just upgraded from MC19 to MC20. I have my DAC set as my default playback device in Windows Settings>Control Panel>Sound. However I will only hear sound through the DAC if WDM is also disabled. If I enable WDM, even though keeping the DAC as the default device, I lose sound and crash MC20. Am I missing something (I'm guessing the answer is 'yes')? All my drivers are up to date. Any advice gratefully received! Many thanks. James
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What is the version of MC20? Make sure you're using the latest build from the top of this board.
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I am running the latest MC version (44) and noticed that my HDMI connection for audio always fails.
This means that I can see the video perfectly but there is no audio.
The display on my receiver simply says "No Signal".
Everything was working fine with the previous build I used (41?) and I was not trying to use WDM at all.
I simply want to stream the audio from MC to my speakers.
Looking at Tools->Options->Audio I see only a limited number of choices: ASIO4ALL, DirectSound, Kernel. There is no WASAPI option and that is what I used in the past. That is probably a separate issue because none of the choices are working.
Something is preventing my HDMI connection from seeing the audio stream.
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Check your audio icon (right side near clock ) right click, chose playback devices, disable jriver, then test.
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I fixed the problem by rebooting my PC.
That caused the WASAPI choices to reappear in the Options menu.
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glad ya got it working.
enjoy
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Just tried the latest version 20.0.48, and found that the problem with the WASAPI exclusive input to the WDM driver still exists. This problem was reported by someone else too. Anyway, I will make another attempt to help reproduce the problem. Please see the steps below:
1. Use any directshow media player other than JRiver, for example MPC-HC
2. Select Reclock as the Audio Renderer in the output options of MPC-HC
3. In Reclock Configuration settings, set WASAPI exclusive output and the output device as JRiver Media Center 20
4. Now play any content in MPC-HC, you will notice that JRiver produces a loud static noise. If you don't get the static, try seeking in MPC-HC and you will be able to reproduce the problem
This problem was confused with the WASAPI output in JRiver audio settings, but it is actually with the WASAPI (excl) input to the WDM driver. I hope that the above steps would make it all clear.
Besides this problem, I have one more concern regarding the WDM driver. It accepts only up to 24 bit audio. If it accepted 32 bit floating point audio, there would no word-length reduction to be done by the windows mixer from 32 bit float to 24 bit int. So if one was careful to match the sample rate of the content with the sample rate in the WDM driver properties, there would be no loss in audio quality when playing via the WDM driver.
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WASAPI input is not officially supported yet, it may crash or exhibit other problems. We recommend you stick to DirectSound. The main goal is to use it with streaming applications for now, which do not have any control over their audio devices.
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Yes I can use DirectSound without any problems. The only advantage of using WASAPI exclusive input to WDM driver is that it saves me from changing the number of channels and sample rate in the WDM driver settings all the time which is a bit annoying. It would be great if WASAPI exclusive input could also be supported in Media Center.
By the way, could you also reply to the concern about the WDM driver that I expressed in my previous post, which is quoted here:
"I have one more concern regarding the WDM driver. It accepts only up to 24 bit audio. If it accepted 32 bit floating point audio, there would no word-length reduction to be done by the windows mixer from 32 bit float to 24 bit int. So if one was careful to match the sample rate of the content with the sample rate in the WDM driver properties, there would be no loss in audio quality when playing via the WDM driver."
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Really looking forward to the new driver, but...upgraded from 19, no sound with WDM driver. I installed on the HTPC as well as my laptop. Both Windows 7. When I test on the laptop in windows OS I get no sound. If I switch back to Realtek sound is fine. IPC is running in JRiver and I can see sound bars. Audio is full volume, not muted. I have read through the topics in the forum and have tried different settings, no luck. Must be something simple, please help.
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Dear All,
I have been using JRiver MC for a year now and I am really satisfied. However, I am having some problems with system volume setting now. I presume this is related to the recent WDM upgrade (as before everything was fine). I tried to set MC as the main audio device but had several problems with it (no audio from other applications - e.g. Firefox - or "selective output" - audio from headphones but no audio from speakers). Therefore I decided to use the internal Cyrrus Logic AB 77 and, apparently, everything went fine. The only problem now is that the system volume is always very high (I must use 4% or less with low impedence headphones) and I cannot find a way to reduce it. On the other hand I have not any problem with MC if I use the Internal Volume.
Is this a common problem? Do you have any suggestion?
Thank you.
Elio
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Really looking forward to the new driver, but...upgraded from 19, no sound with WDM driver. I installed on the HTPC as well as my laptop. Both Windows 7. When I test on the laptop in windows OS I get no sound. If I switch back to Realtek sound is fine. IPC is running in JRiver and I can see sound bars. Audio is full volume, not muted. I have read through the topics in the forum and have tried different settings, no luck. Must be something simple, please help.
If you can see sound bars, that means the program is getting sound. So the problem must be the output. Try switching the output in Options > Audio. Maybe a bad one is chosen?
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If you can see sound bars, that means the program is getting sound. So the problem must be the output. Try switching the output in Options > Audio. Maybe a bad one is chosen?
Here is what it was: the audio device in Options>audio automatically gets changed to "default audio device [direct sound]" upon installation of MC 20 and switching the windows default audio device to JRiver. I switched the default audio device by clicking on More>Realtek High definition audio[direct sound] and all works well. Loaded MC20 on the HTPC again and switched the audio device to SPDIF-out(sound card)[direct sound] and all is good. Thanks for your assistance, love the WDM driver. Philip.
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Here is what it was: the audio device in Options>audio automatically gets changed to "default audio device [direct sound]" upon installation of MC 20 and switching the windows default audio device to JRiver. I switched the default audio device by clicking on More>Realtek High definition audio[direct sound] and all works well. Loaded MC20 on the HTPC again and switched the audio device to SPDIF-out(sound card)[direct sound] and all is good. Thanks for your assistance, love the WDM driver. Philip.
Great. Glad it's fixed. Whew!
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Hi, I am trying to get bluray players for 3D discs to play through the WDM driver (to enable convolution and channel routing).
It is working, except for a periodic beep when playing a bluray disc. I have tried TMT5 and powerdvd 14.
Any ideas why I am getting a beep every 2 minutes or so?
I have had a similar setup working in the past using a VST host (plogue Bidule), but due to stability issues I want to use the jriver driver.
I have minimum latency set and have good lip sync and no drop outs.
Convolution is working, but only if I use the 3rd party voxengo pristine space. Native jriver convolution causes stuttering (even with minimum phase filters). So I think more optimisation is required for the jriver convolution function.
So my main problem is a periodic beep in movie playback. Any ideas?
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Stupid question: how can I reactivate the WDM driver, once I have deactivated it ?
I was unable to find it in the MC options, nor in this forum. Nor to remember how I deactivated it (what would probably give me the answer).
Many thanks in advance.
Chris
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Stupid question: how can I reactivate the WDM driver, once I have deactivated it ?
I was unable to find it in the MC options, nor in this forum. Nor to remember how I deactivated it (what would probably give me the answer).
Many thanks in advance.
Chris
Is it listed in Windows Sound properties?
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Is it listed in Windows Sound properties?
No.
And it does not appear in the MC options, either (Tools/Options/Audio/Audio device).
It used to appear, before I deactivated it a few weeks ago.
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It won't ever show up as an Audio device in JRiver. To play to it would cause and endless loop.
It looks like you uninstalled it. Reinstall JRiver and allow the WDM driver to install. You don't have to uninstall first. The install won't change anything and will work just the same as upgrading to a new release. Go to the Sound settings in Control Panel and set it as the default.
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Probably just me, but I am trying to use the Disk Writer in its own zone to write separate songs to disk. It's source is WDM to pick up the music, and I have "Break output into individual tracks" checked. My source has a 1 second gap between tracks. But I am just getting a single file on disk after playing multiple tracks.
Was there anything else I should be doing ?
Thanks.
(By the way, do all JRiver's Virtual Audio Cable users know that WDM is the much simpler way, and easier to manage as well ! )
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Hi, I use MC20 to direct sound files from my PC to a network streamer. This works perfectly well. But I cannot get a web stream (like Tidal) to output to the same streamer from MC 20. According to MC 20, an IPC stream is identified and the network streamer too shows the IPC stream but shows it as paused. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks,
JB
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It won't ever show up as an Audio device in JRiver. To play to it would cause and endless loop.
This has actually happened :-).
Thanks for the hint. I indeed uninstalled the WDM driver (do not remember how), but I was hoping that there is a simpler way to reinstall it.
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This has actually happened :-).
Thanks for the hint. I indeed uninstalled the WDM driver (do not remember how), but I was hoping that there is a simpler way to reinstall it.
In Windows>Control Panel>Sound properties just select a different driver to be your default. Why uninstall?
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Because my wife then tried to use the computer during a week-end when I was away, and because I had just to explain to her why the computer never works when I am aways...
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Just installed, but getting no sound (not in JRiver, not elsewhere). When I go back into Control Panel and switch the default device back to Realtek I get the sound back.
Running Windows 7 on a Toshiba Satellite with Realtek.
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Further troubleshooting. I can see sound bars within MC 20 when I select the JRiver driver and play music through it, but not elsewhere on my system (i.e. in control panel/sound).
If I go into settings/audio devices, the WDM is not an express option.
I am using the .50 build and have tried rebooting. I still have MC 19 on my system (and would like to keep it).
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Did you try the instructions at the top again? I've had trouble a couple of times, too, but always got it to work.
Check the Windows mixer to make sure nothing is muted.
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No luck.
I selected the JRiver Media Center 20 device in Control Panel/Sounds as my default. I set MC20 so it would run on start-up and then rebooted. No system sounds; no sound when playing music in MC20. I do see bars in MC20's Now Playing window while playing, but no bars in the Windows sound dialog box. The moment I reset the Realtek High Definition Audio as my default device, all the sounds come back.
Just to be clear - I am assuming that the WDM and the Realtek are alternatives for one another (as I have to select one as a default).
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What device do you have selected under Options-->Audio in JRiver? You haven't mentioned that. You should have the realtek selected if that is your actual sound output device. When the WDM driver is the default device JRiver is routing the system audio output to whatever is selected as the output device in JRiver. If you select the "default" in JRiver you just create a closed loop that goes nowhere.
To be clear: to enable the WDM driver, the JRiver WDM should be the default in the Windows Mixer (i.e. control panel), but you should select your actual output device (i.e. the realtek) in JRiver's Audio Options.
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I've tried both Default Audio Device [Direct Sound] and Realtek High Definition Audio [Direct Sound]. Neither works.
Edit - I just tried Realtek High Definition Audio [WASAPI] and that works. I hadn't tried it before as according to this thread I thought it was unsupported.
Further Edit - now Realtek High Definition Audio [Direct Sound] is working. Maybe I screwed up trying it before.
Further, further edit. Realtek High Definition Audio [Direct Sound] is working for music playing in MC20 but not for system sounds. That explains my previous experience.
Further, further, further edit. Using Realtek High Definition Audio [Direct Sound] or [WASAPI] I can now get some volume on system sound (most of the time) and on the web (YouTube) but it is very low, and I cannot adjust it.
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WASAPI is generally preferable if it works. The posts in the thread in re: WASAPI were about problems using WASAPI in other programs to address JRiver's WDM driver (on the front end), not about using WASAPI as an output method in JRiver (which usually works well)
If you want to get the direct sound option working, try changing the buffers as described in the first post. Also make sure to test with sounds that last more than a second or two as sometimes the driver has trouble with very short sounds (try playing a youtube video in a browser, etc.)
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Tried resetting the buffers. I still cannot adjust the volume either for system sounds or for YouTube. It is always very low. I have tried changing the volume in both the mixer dialog box and in MC20
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You added your edit about volume control after I posted; the buffers won't affect volume.
Check in the windows mixer/control panel to make sure that both the realtek device and the JRiver WDM device have their volume sliders set to an appropriate level. One of them is probably set low.
Then change the JRiver volume setting to "internal," and you should have good volume control capability.
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Everything is set to maximum in the mixer/control panel. Still can't control the volume. And I do not get the system sounds on all occasions.
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OK - now I'm just baffled. I am not even getting much volume in MC20 - and I can't adjust the volume, not with the MC20 slider and not with the mixer slider. Also I can't mute the sound either in the program or with the Windows mixer.
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Did you try following the second portion of my advice (changing JRiver's volume setting to "internal")?
You added your edit about volume control after I posted; the buffers won't affect volume.
Check in the windows mixer/control panel to make sure that both the realtek device and the JRiver WDM device have their volume sliders set to an appropriate level. One of them is probably set low.
Then change the JRiver volume setting to "internal," and you should have good volume control capability. [Emphasis added]
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I did.
After shutting everything down and re-opening, it appears to me that the Windows volume slider and mixer have no effect, and sometimes system sounds (at least the ping) do not sound. MC 20's volume slider will adjust those, and MC 20 works in tandem with other sliders like YouTube.
Edit - were my settings so unusual? Otherwise, would it make sense to put some of this in the instruction thread? I did start there.
Further edit - to be clear, the JRiver slider in the Windows mixer has no effect. Only the MC20 slider in the program, itself.
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Probably a stupid question....
I have Spotify and Qobuz "playing to" the JRiver WDM driver.
When playing, "Ipc" is listed in JRiver playback window with playback time ticking.
But... when playback is paused (stopped) on Spotify or Qobuz the playback timer in JRiver continues unless JRiver is stopped (stop button).
Is this an issue?
I have an Audiophilleo2 USB to SPDIF hooked up and I am concerned that this could be preventing the Audiophilleo from shutting down when no playback (am trying to test this).
Cheers,
D
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The WDM driver should shut down after a few minutes of silence. It won't shut down immediately as to not disrupt playback when you just pause briefly.
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The WDM driver should shut down after a few minutes of silence. It won't shut down immediately as to not disrupt playback when you just pause briefly.
Many thanks for the reply and information! I will check this is happening. Thanks again. 8)
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2 Problems (repeatable) with the WDM Driver.
Issue #1: After a while (say, an hour or less), the WDM driver screws up and the output stream becomes semi recognizable garbage until playback is stopped at the source AND at JRiver, then restarted. During this "garbage" period, if playback is only stopped at JRiver, it is unable to restart (error: "Something went wrong with playback"), until source is stopped then restarted.
Issue #2: Clicks and pops will happen in the output if one mouse overs a bunch of items fast in Chrome. This will eventually lead to a screwy stream that needs restarting at both points. This does *not* seem to occur with any other apps I've tried, although I haven't tried a different browser yet.
Both machines are *more* than adequate to handle these streams; both are i7 class desktop machines with 32gb ram running windows 8.1. One has a MOTU 89kmk3, one a MOTU Ultralite mk3. All combinations of MOTU Driver Buffer, JRiver Buffer, and JRiver Live Buffer have been examined and found to exhibit these behaviors, although at maximum buffer size (all 3) it is *slightly* more difficult to recreate Issue #2.
Q: is the WDM driver set to a "REALTIME" priority (I *think* the flag is KSPRIOPRITYREALTIME)? I *know* that this is only supposed to apply to WaveRT drivers, but if it isn't, it may be worth a try. I *think* Issue #2 is especially aggravated by the Chrome Batter Killing Bug, where it sets a callback tick at 1k/s. I'm going to guess that somehow Chrome is getting an execution slice quickly enough and with enough priority to glitch the audio.
I will be trying a few additional sound cards and a different browser at a later date.
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wolffe, thanks for the really great post.
We're looking into what you've said.
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Well, this is an amazing development. Thank you Matt and Hendrik! and the rest of the JRiver team, of course. My main goal is getting proper convolution for playback of Youtube videos in JRiver.
Some things working, some not, and many questions (sorry).
1) Some videos are playing, but many which played when I was using the Lynx as the Windows default device are failing in video playback when I use JRiver as the default device. For example, a Toyota ad and most of the videos which YouTube recommends play back fine. But any video by walk off the earth and many more give the dreaded "sorry an error occurred." message on the video time line. As a clue, previously when I got that error, if I was using the lynx as the default device in windows, I could select a video which did play, play it momentarily, then switch to Walk off the Earth (for example) and it would wake up and play.
2) Buffer. To prevent glitches I have to go up to 50 ms or so. Hope this preserves lip sync. I'll check and report.
3) Properties on the JRiver as a default output allow setting up a default sample rate and wordlength. So what should I set? I do NOT have JRiver configured for sample rate conversion, so how can I know what the sample rate of the source video is ahead of time?
More to come, I'm still playing, so let's post for now.
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Hmmmm... Walk off the Earth's video called "Walk off the Earth - are making videos" is playing in surround. 5.1 I swear. Woops, not. At least now I see separate levels on the low pass filter, indicating the JRiver XO is working. The l, r, c, ls, rs are playing identical levels. I would think there should be some way to tell JRiver that there are only 2 channels coming in but I haven't figured that out. I have to set JRiver for 10 channels for my convolver to work properly in 5.1.
Is Windows sending out a bunch of identical source channels, duplicating front to surround, etc. ?
But lip sync using this WMD method is screwed up, I'm sorry. This using convolution in JRiver as usual and yes the lpc indicator is playing and showing in the top part of JRiver.
So I guess there is uncontrollable latency between Windows playing and its input into JRiver? Oy vey.
Much more to post, still experimenting. Please excuse these multiple discovery posts.
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The lip sync appears to be buffer dependent. Reducing buffer to 10 ms (which is tolerable for the moment, no glitches right now) seems to tighten the lip sync "reasonably accurate."
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For perfect lipsync with YouTube you could also install another app that can show YouTube video and has the option to delay the video. For example I use both Plex and Kodi/xbmc and adjust the delay there and send the audio to the wdm driver. The only drawback right now is that only directsound out to the wdm driver works with those programs. Wasapi not yet.
With plex you can set a global video delay in its settings. For Kodi/xbmc you can set it for the current playing video inside the program and a global delay in an settings .ini file.
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The lip sync appears to be buffer dependent. Reducing buffer to 10 ms (which is tolerable for the moment, no glitches right now) seems to tighten the lip sync "reasonably accurate."
Hey Bob. Just in case you missed this, there is another variable to set which is under Audio=>Advanced to set latency. Its really the combination of the two you need to juggle. As it is zone dependant, there is no need to monkey around with the buffer if you create a "streaming" zone. The rule for zone switch is [Name]="IPC" .
I found the video from the BBC very good to sync video, again if you missed it http://clip.dj/bbc-hd-audio-sync-test-download-mp3-mp4-bCPEidaVzQU (http://clip.dj/bbc-hd-audio-sync-test-download-mp3-mp4-bCPEidaVzQU) posted by Roderick or Jmone (I forget :) )
There is really no need for external programs as you can get quite accurate for playback purposes without external programs IMHO.
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Win 8.1/64 MC 20.0.54
Just realized that my sound was set for "Realtek High Definition Audio". So I switched it to the "JRiver Media Center" Audio device.
I am now getting Blue Screen of Deaths - 3 times in a row, so I had to switch to the Realtek audio device back. 2 different error messages on the blue screen:
DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL (JRiverWDMDriver.sys)
BAD_POOL_HEADER
Hope this info helps eliminating issues with the WDM.
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Bob, which convolver are you using?
I could not get the jriver convolver to work stutter free.
Using the voxengo pristine space vst convolver fixes the problem, and allows me to use minimum buffer settings in jriver.
I think that the jriver convolver needs further optimisation and implement an algorithm with partitions
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The driver and subsequent sound is great. Can you help with this.....whenever I start a video/movie in a VCL player (or for that matter a Cable TV browser) the win 8.1 OS switches to Media Center (the movies playing but no longer visable as the OS switched to MC window). Happens ever time. Even if you pause then hit play in the browser or player, Win 8.1 switches the video to the MC screen. Any ideas how to stop this behavior?
Thanks
Larry
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Please provide a way to disable the auto shut-off feature of the WDM driver. I want my output WASAPI device to be permanently locked in exclusive mode with an open stream. Can you provide a way to make it fail with an error if exclusive mode cannot be obtained? I find that most of the time my output device is in shared mode while using the WDM driver (I can adjust the volume using the Windows mixer).
Can you provide an option to run a "silent stream" that always keeps the WDM device active as if a shared mode stream was open, similar to running AVR Audio Guard on the WDM device? If I rapidly generate multiple independent sounds, such as clicking the Windows volume slider of the WDM device repeatedly, only the first sound is played. The remaining are not audible. If I use AVR Audio Guard to keep a stream open then all the clicks are heard.
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Closing the JRiver main Window even while Media Server is running causes the WDM audio to stop.
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When using WDM, I have crackling / popping / stuttering every once in a while when using both ASIO and WASAPI output. Increasing the buffer and live latency even to the maximum value doesn't fix it.
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When using WDM, I have crackling / popping / stuttering every once in a while when using both ASIO and WASAPI output. Increasing the buffer and live latency even to the maximum value doesn't fix it.
Please try increasing buffering in Options > Audio > Advanced > Live playback latency
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Please try increasing buffering in Options > Audio > Advanced > Live playback latency
I have maxed that out, as I mentioned in my previous post. (Increasing it doesn't seem to add any latency anywhere. Sounds still play instantly.)
Sometimes the music keeps playing for 5-6 seconds after I've closed the source application.
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I am having problems with skips, crackling etc., too. In my case it seems to have to do with convolution. I use Acourate-generated filters and without them deactivated WASAPI loopback as well as WDM input works flawlessly. With convolution active (digital X/O for 2.2 output combined with all the other good stuff acourate does in the acourate-generated filter) I always get artifacts.
With the WDM input I tried different combinations of sound device buffer and live playback latency (high/low, low/high, high/high, low/low, lowest/lowest, medium/medium...), but to no avail. Sometimes the issues were more pronounced, sometimes less, but invariably I am getting artifacts that make the result less than pleasant.
I never got WASAPI loopback to work flawlessly, either, and gave up on it long ago. See here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87836.msg602764#msg602764
I was quite happy back when the ASIO soundcard emulation was implemented in MC19, as since then I can listen with Fidelify flawlessly (ASIO output to MC). But Fidelify is not really the most user friendly program and I was looking forward to the new WDM function so I can use the original Spotify client. Just upgraded euphorically to MC20. But now I am a bit frustrated and back to using Fidelify as before... :-(
Bob: Besides your latency issues, do you get flawless sound with convolution through WDM input?
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It's possible to get convolution working with the WDM driver, but you will need relatively short/low tap convolution filters in my experience. With low tap filters (less than 10k taps) it works perfectly fine for me in my main setup (just with added latency), but when the convolution filter length pushes past about 10K taps, occasional artifacts start appearing, and if the convolution filter gets long enough (more than 30k taps) playback doesn't work very well at all. The exact thresholds will be dependent on your exact setup as it seems to vary with different hardware (I get different results with different sound cards on the same computer with the same filters).
But the basic principal is there: try using shorter filters and see if that helps. If you can't reduce your filter length, it may be (as some folks upthread have found) that a partitioned convolution plugin would work better in this context, but would obviously be significantly more CPU intensive.
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Ok thanks! I'll give it a try with shorter filters and post the results...
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I have a question. Set up a zone with low audio latency and buffer size. Trying to figure out how to set up a zoneswitch rule so that external devices using MC20 WDM as audio output device would automatically go to the low latency zone.
had a quick browse on the zoneswitch rule selections, did not find an obvious solution.
more technical questions on this:
1. correct me if I m wrong please. looks this feature largely supersedes the live loopback feature?
2. how do the low latency setting and small buffer settings affect the DSP which I assume is a source of latency and may require a certain amount of buffering of data for computation purpose?
Thanks in advance. and thanks for such a great product!
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I have a question. Setup a zone with low audio latency and buffer size. Trying to figure out how to set up a zoneswitch rule so that external devices using MC20 WDM as audio output device would automatically go to the low latency zone.
had a quick browse on the zoneswitch rule selections, did not find an obvious solution.
Thanks
Check out this thread for two sample rules: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93043
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wow, customer support on Saturday, within minutes!
I was actually updating my original post with the following:
more technical questions on this:
1. correct me if I m wrong please. looks this feature largely supersedes the live loopback feature?
2. how do the low latency setting and small buffer settings affect the DSP which I assume is a source of latency and may require a certain amount of buffering of data for computation purpose?
any pointers?
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wow, customer support on Saturday, within minutes!
I'm just a user like you, but I've spent a lot of time with the WDM driver ;D
I was actually updating my original post with the following:
more technical questions on this:
1. correct me if I m wrong please. looks this feature largely supersedes the live loopback feature?
Yes more or less.
2. how do the low latency setting and small buffer settings affect the DSP which I assume is a source of latency and may require a certain amount of buffering of data for computation purpose?
DSP is not necessarily the source of the latency. There will be some irreducible driver/buffering latency even with no DSP in the chain. The buffer settings determine that minimum latency. To the extent DSP needs additional latency it generally "takes what it needs." You're safe using the lowest buffer settings that work without dropouts.
The only exception are long/high tap convolution filters, but those may not work well in a WDM/loopback application regardless of buffer settings.
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Thank you very much.
I more or less got it work. followed that thread exactly and set up [Name]="Ipc" to the low latency zone and -[Name]="Ipc" to the standard zone. So now movies and music plays from standard zone but if I play a pink noise from REW to MC20 driver, the low latency zone plays the audio.
interestingly, when the low latency zone is playing, "Overview" does not show it as the "current" zone, even though the tone is played to its designated output device and the spectrum.
I'm just a user like you, but I've spent a lot of time with the WDM driver ;D
Yes more or less.
DSP is not necessarily the source of the latency. There will be some irreducible driver/buffering latency even with no DSP in the chain. The buffer settings determine that minimum latency. To the extent DSP needs additional latency it generally "takes what it needs." You're safe using the lowest buffer settings that work without dropouts.
The only exception are long/high tap convolution filters, but those may not work well in a WDM/loopback application regardless of buffer settings.
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I've had the same problem as mentioned in earlier posts on this thread. No sound from Youtube with MC 20 set as default audio device and Cirrus Logic CS4208 [WASAPI] set as audio device in MC. Problem is fixed by setting Cirrus Logic CS4208 [Direct Sound] as audio device in MC, but doesn't that result in lower overall quality audio output from MC?
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Jimh or Matt, I've used JRiver for a long time and I've used the WDM driver before, but I updated and it won't let me select JRiver 20 WDM as the default (in windows). Set as default is greyed out. It has never done this before.
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Did you try reinstalling?
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Did you try reinstalling?
as we speak...I'll let you know how it turns out.
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and rebooting.
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and rebooting.
No joy, set as default is still greyed out.
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User level?
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Administrator
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JimH, it seems as if it's not recognized as an active sound card....no meter level to the right (like all active sound cards have). Oh and it's not disabled.
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User level?
This is what it looks like now - I even went back to version .63 with no joy. It seems as if the WDM driver is broken now. :(
(http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr231/prerich/jrivererror_zpsxaklix0s.jpg) (http://s487.photobucket.com/user/prerich/media/jrivererror_zpsxaklix0s.jpg.html)
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Any update on this issue? ?
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I can't read the text in the windows box, too blurry.
In the screen shot, is the driver not visible at all or is it visible and you can't set it as a default. If it is visible you could try changing the default to something totally different. Then seeing if it can be selected after reopening the window. Doubt this would work though.
I haven't heard of anyone having this issue. So I'd guess its the driver thats screwed up either the install was interrupted, or there is an error in the windows registry. I would not just uninstall the JRiver version, I would uninstall the driver manually and even clean the registry of it.
I bet even on the uninstall you did it was still resident in Windows and reinstalling is not puttin the driver back because it thinks its already installed??
Might not be the best way to approach it, but probably simpler to just start from a clean slate.
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Any update on this issue? ?
I tested on my system since I also have the Essence ST and H6 and it works fine.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Try setting a different audio device as default other than the one already selected and then try the JRiver WDM driver again.
2. Do a System Restore back to when it worked.
3. Go to Device Manager, select "sound, video, and game controllers" and uninstall "JRiver Media Center 20". Reboot and reinstall JRiver and the WDM driver.
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By the way, I never update the WDM driver unless I see it mentioned in the Release Notes.
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Yeah, I won't hit express mode ever again! ;)
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I can't read the text in the windows box, too blurry.
In the screen shot, is the driver not visible at all or is it visible and you can't set it as a default. If it is visible you could try changing the default to something totally different. Then seeing if it can be selected after reopening the window. Doubt this would work though.
I haven't heard of anyone having this issue. So I'd guess its the driver thats screwed up either the install was interrupted, or there is an error in the windows registry. I would not just uninstall the JRiver version, I would uninstall the driver manually and even clean the registry of it.
I bet even on the uninstall you did it was still resident in Windows and reinstalling is not puttin the driver back because it thinks its already installed??
Might not be the best way to approach it, but probably simpler to just start from a clean slate.
the first three are are a HDMI projector, second the essence speaker out, third digital out, and the last is the JRiver wdm. You see the bars out to the side (level indicators), those should also show on the WDM driver...they are now gone. Another strange thing, it won't let me select another device as the default device.
@Mojave ....did everything my friend, rolled it back to the 22nd, uninstalled the driver, rebooted reinstalled JRiver with the driver....still no joy. Man at work I never opt for express installs! This one has reminded me why! Everything was working so well too :( !!!!! I guess I'll have to play it old school until I hear else wise.
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The WDM driver should shut down after a few minutes of silence. It won't shut down immediately as to not disrupt playback when you just pause briefly.
It seems to shut down after 3 seconds of silence here - which is short enough that if I seek during a YouTube video, it drops the connection.
It would be really nice if this was a preference we could set ourselves.
I understand the reasons why you might want it set to only 3 seconds, but I'd prefer to keep the connection open a lot longer than that.
EDIT: Sometimes this results in no audio being played until I seek again.
When doing a lot of testing to try and get audio in sync with video when using the WDM driver (which was possible!) it seems that any device buffer longer than 10ms is what causes the sound to "crackle" on my system when the WDM driver starts playback.
25ms occasionally does it, while 50ms+ always crackles at the start of playback.
This seems to be completely unrelated to the live playback latency setting.
Live Playback Latency seems to help prevent pops/clicks during playback however.
But I need to keep that at the "minimum" setting to keep things in sync. (and the playback device at 5ms via WASAPI)
For my purposes, the WDM driver is mostly going to be used for streaming live video and processing the audio (e.g. adding dynamic range compression via the Adaptive Volume DSP) so it's more important that the audio is in sync than there being an occasional pop/click.
If I was using it for music, I'd keep the device buffer set to 10ms to eliminate the "crackle" when a track changes (though it may not be enough to avoid pops/clicks on some systems) and set the live input latency as high as possible.
As general tips for keeping latency down, don't enable any "unnecessary" DSPs.
Just having Output Format enabled was adding latency.
On my system at least, using it to resample was out of the question.
VST plug-ins may or may not add noticeable latency.
I'm able to keep Redline Monitor enabled as it adds <1ms latency.
Voxengo Elephant added 20-25ms latency.
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I can't read the text in the windows box, too blurry.
In the screen shot, is the driver not visible at all or is it visible and you can't set it as a default. If it is visible you could try changing the default to something totally different. Then seeing if it can be selected after reopening the window. Doubt this would work though.
I haven't heard of anyone having this issue. So I'd guess its the driver thats screwed up either the install was interrupted, or there is an error in the windows registry. I would not just uninstall the JRiver version, I would uninstall the driver manually and even clean the registry of it.
I bet even on the uninstall you did it was still resident in Windows and reinstalling is not puttin the driver back because it thinks its already installed??
Might not be the best way to approach it, but probably simpler to just start from a clean slate.
I had a similar problem that I was writing up but this helped me to solve it. Thanks.
My problem was this:
I have a MC 20 20.0.63 on two different laptops.
The #2 laptop has been restored with the #1 library so I assume all settings are the same.
On #2 in Windows Control Panel > Sound, I wanted to set Media Center as the default device but I cannot see it to set it.
I have looked in Windows Device manager\ Sound, vidoe and game controllers, and I see MC device is working properly. (or so it said!)
I have reinstalled and watched it say it was installing the WDM driver.
After reading your post I uninstalled the MC driver and reinstalled MC.
Problem solved! Thanks!
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After reading your post I uninstalled the MC driver and reinstalled MC.
Problem solved! Thanks!
Great, glad it helped and thank for posting back :)
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For instructions, please see the first post in the feature thread here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
Please post any problems here.
This is not a problem, just a word of thanks! I upgraded today to 20.0.80 on PC and suddenly my lipsync issues with JRiver, YouTube with Convolution filters seemed to disappear. I noticed that the WDM driver was installed automatically with the update. Lip sync is very close, I think quite satisfactory for playing You Tube music videos at least. I'll still play with buffers but I think the issue has been licked. I have no idea how JRiver knows that something is being played in another application that's feeding windows sound!!! How is that link being made? Is it listening on its input all the time?
Now I have to conquer and figure out what keeps the links in the tab window... I'll look for or create another thread to ask about that.
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I have no idea how JRiver knows that something is being played in another application that's feeding windows sound!!! How is that link being made? Is it listening on its input all the time?
Media Center runs an IPC (inter process communication) server that the driver opens and writes to.
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Media Center runs an IPC (inter process communication) server that the driver opens and writes to.
Beautiful, Matt. That explains the magic that's going on. So when the driver is not being used (when Windows is not playing any sound), I assume there is minimal impact on CPU drain?
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Beautiful, Matt. That explains the magic that's going on. So when the driver is not being used (when Windows is not playing any sound), I assume there is minimal impact on CPU drain?
There's none really. I guess there's an IPC server sitting there but it only does something if data comes in, so it's basically free.
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Crackling sounds while playing Spotify premium no matter how I adjust the buffering and live playback.
It doesn't matter if the songs are downloaded or streaming. If I just use Spotify without MC no crackling.
The crackling is intermittent and not very often, sometimes takes 15 seconds, sometimes takes minutes.
Reducing device buffering does help, my best setting is minimum buffering and 50 live playback latency.
I am using a Dell ultrabook with I5 processor and 8 mb ram with USB out to Dragonfly dac.
Audio device setting is WASAPI.
I'm a newbie but I've owned MC for about 2 months with constant reading on the forum so I think I have a feel for the settings, no expert by any means.
So to sum it up if I select MC for the sound device driver the problem begins.
I'm using the latest stable version 20.0.63
I've tried low/low, low/high, high/low, and high/high device buffering/live playback latency setting, over a dozen different combinations.
I'm out of ideas and need help please.
Edit to add that it does it without using internet or having any other programs going besides MC and Spotify.
Computer is set to never sleep.
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A newer version of MC is posted at the top of this board. It would be worth testing that.
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Will do and report back.
Thanks!
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Still crackles on occasion after the update. :(
I am currently using minimum buffering and 20 ms latency.
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Ok, solved my problem. I still don't know what caused it....I'm thinking my registry became corrupt - so I just re-installed my old image and started from scratch. Everything is up and running good now. Making a new image today because everything seems to be stable and running well.
Thanks to everyone that tried to help!!!! :)
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I'm using Tidal to stream to JMC and then to my Chord Hugo Dac.
I've followed the instructions and set the driver as the default device, selected JMC in Tidal settings etc.
It's finally working just fine, except I noticed one thing.
I was wondering why the audio path showed 24/192 for everything I played.
It seems JMC is running in shared mode and in my Windows Sound settings the default setting for shared mode is set to 24/192.
But why is JMC running in shared mode? Is there some setting? I've looked can't seem to find anything.
-- Sanjay
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A newer version of MC is posted at the top of this board. It would be worth testing that.
This implies that you have been working on the WDM crackling issue since last stable?
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Still crackles on occasion after the update. :(
I am currently using minimum buffering and 20 ms latency.
Most playback devices require at least 50ms buffering to have completely glitch-free playback, I find.
Some of my devices are mostly glitch-free down to 10ms, but high CPU usage can still cause playback glitches.
I wouldn't expect anything below 10ms to be glitch-free. Below 10ms is a compromise where you will tolerate potential glitches in order to keep latency low enough for video playback to stay in sync.
As for the live playback latency setting, there is no detriment to using the highest setting available; unlike device latency, where anything above 25ms glitches at the very start of playback. (on my system, at least)
If you are just using it for music playback, latency should not be much of a concern, so you can use anything up to 500ms.
10ms device buffer and a 10ms playback latency should be far less prone to glitches than "minimum+20ms".
You might even find "25ms+minimum" to be suitable.
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This implies that you have been working on the WDM crackling issue since last stable?
I don't know what the crackling sound is. Sorry. It's always worth trying the latest build if you find a problem.
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Most playback devices require at least 50ms buffering to have completely glitch-free playback, I find.
Some of my devices are mostly glitch-free down to 10ms, but high CPU usage can still cause playback glitches.
I wouldn't expect anything below 10ms to be glitch-free. Below 10ms is a compromise where you will tolerate potential glitches in order to keep latency low enough for video playback to stay in sync.
As for the live playback latency setting, there is no detriment to using the highest setting available; unlike device latency, where anything above 25ms glitches at the very start of playback. (on my system, at least)
If you are just using it for music playback, latency should not be much of a concern, so you can use anything up to 500ms.
10ms device buffer and a 10ms playback latency should be far less prone to glitches than "minimum+20ms".
You might even find "25ms+minimum" to be suitable.
Thank you for posting, that gives me a better understanding of the device buffering and live playback latency.
While I had already tried a dozen settings, I went back and tried even more including settings within your suggestions.
It does seem that some settings improve over others but the crackling is random and hard to define even after what is now hours of testing.
Unfortunately the crackling still exists while playing Spotify and using the MC driver, sounds fine when I just set Dragonfly as default.
I decided to try a completely different ultrabook and it has the same symptoms.
At this point I am not enjoying the music, but the geek in me makes me want to keep trying. ?
In looking back at previous posts it looks like there's at least 3 of us with this similar/same problem.
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Well, I just bought a new dac, not to fix this problem but for another room,
but I will retest after I get it since both ultrabooks used the same Dragonfly dac when I tested.
I should have it by Friday the 13th :o
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I don't know what the crackling sound is. Sorry. It's always worth trying the latest build if you find a problem.
That's too bad. It pains me not being able to enjoy WDM. Maybe for MC 21 you could fix it?
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That's too bad. It pains me not being able to enjoy WDM. Maybe for MC 21 you could fix it?
I'm not sure it is our problem. It doesn't seem to be common. Time will tell.
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I'm not sure it is our problem. It doesn't seem to be common. Time will tell.
The JRiver WDM driver is by far the audio device most susceptible to playback interruption from things like high CPU usage compared to anything else in my system.
It's not necessarily that what you're doing is wrong, but it does not seem to be as robust as playback to other audio devices.
I wish I had some insight as to why that is the case, but I really have no idea. Other virtual audio devices on my system (e.g. VB-cable) don't have this problem.
And this is exacerbated by the fact that people often want to minimize latency to keep audio in sync with video.
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The JRiver WDM driver is by far the audio device most susceptible to playback interruption from things like high CPU usage compared to anything else in my system.
It's not necessarily that what you're doing is wrong, but it does not seem to be as robust as playback to other audio devices.
I wish I had some insight as to why that is the case, but I really have no idea. Other virtual audio devices on my system (e.g. VB-cable) don't have this problem.
And this is exacerbated by the fact that people often want to minimize latency to keep audio in sync with video.
What would be the optimal condition if one were to minimize the potential impact that processor usage might have? The random crackling issue appears with max buffers set and MC and chrome the only programs running on a fairly powerful 4 core i7 laptop.
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What would be the optimal condition if one were to minimize the potential impact that processor usage might have? The random crackling issue appears with max buffers set and MC and chrome the only programs running on a fairly powerful 4 core i7 laptop.
My experience is that it's very audio device specific. I have some sound cards that never experience crackle when being fed from the WDM even with prolonged periods of 100% CPU utilization, and some that experience crackle with even short spikes in CPU usage. I've had two different devices plugged into the same computer, same instance of mediacenter, etc. One will crackle when using the WDM, the other will not.
So I don't think it's necessarily a function of the PC/CPU, but more of a function of the sound hardware/drivers and how MC interacts with them in exclusive output modes.
For example, my Asus Xonar ST (in a new i7 based PC) experiences crackle with the WDM driver regardless of buffer settings (some are better than others, but no combination of settings totally eliminates the crackle). When my sound output to the ST is ASIO, I get less crackle than when it's WASAPI, but in either case I still get some crackle when using the WDM driver. There are specific computer tasks I can perform that always cause crackle regardless of buffer settings.
On the same computer an Asus Xonar U7 (which is an external USB interface), cannot be made to crackle with the WDM driver unless the buffers are set to minimum. Plugging the U7 into an i5, I still cannot get it to crackle with WDM.
My Steinberg UR824 doesn't crackle with the WDM even when the PC it's attached to is running Prime95 on all cores.
I could provide 2 or 3 other examples of interfaces that exhibit consistent behavior; the issue seems to be more audio device driven than computer driven. My general findings are that external interfaces generally do a better job than internal cards (but not always), and Asus has terrible driver support.
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What would be the optimal condition if one were to minimize the potential impact that processor usage might have? The random crackling issue appears with max buffers set and MC and chrome the only programs running on a fairly powerful 4 core i7 laptop.
Mutato, what brand laptop are you using? Mine are both Dell, a 6230 and a 4200.
Mine both crackle without having Chrome up, only running MC and Spotify.
It won't go away with ANY setting so far.
I do think there are probably users that have not noticed yet, but will in the future.
It is most apparent on soft passages of music.
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Mutato, what brand laptop are you using? Mine are both Dell, a 6230 and a 4200.
Mine both crackle without having Chrome up, only running MC and Spotify.
It won't go away with ANY setting so far.
I do think there are probably users that have not noticed yet, but will in the future.
It is most apparent on soft passages of music.
It's a Samsung ATIV Book 9. I'm also using an external dac, called Nuforce HDP.
Maybe mwillems is right that the crackling issue is connected with how MC's WDM driver interacts with certain devices, the dac in my case and what I presume to be the onboard soundcard in your dell? This leaves but a few options. We can wait for jriver developers to improve the flexibility of their driver or we can try other hardware/software combinations. I sadly don't have another dac to try. In your case - have you experimented with other drivers for your soundcard?
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I'm using a dac also. I'm using a Dragonfly V1.2
I've got a Schiit dac coming this Friday that I will try.
I am not using any MC dsp functions so I can just go back to using the Dragonfly without MC although I will
lose WASAPI.
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I'm using a dac also. I'm using a Dragonfly V1.2
I've got a Schiit dac coming this Friday that I will try.
I am not using any MC dsp functions so I can just go back to using the Dragonfly without MC although I will
lose WASAPI.
Keep us posted in regards to the Schiit. I'm getting a little desperate for a solution since I'm reliant on a dsp which lessens headphone fatigue.
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I received the Schiit dac early and as expected I still have crackling.
I also had a situation where the audio became completely distorted while playing a music file after using Spotify.
I was using a different zone than the Spotify zone and shut down Spotify and the distortion still existed.
While MC was still on I played a music file from iTunes and it sounded great.
I shut down MC and restarted and music was back to normal.
I don't know what that was about but I've never had that happen before I started using the WDM driver.
I don't know if it's related or not.
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As more people discover WDM, it'll be interesting to see how many more audio devices will produce crackling when coupled with MC20.
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"Crackling" during playback is nothing to do with the output device. (unless it also happens when you're playing music)
It's entirely due to the WDM driver, and typically caused by using buffer sizes which are too small.
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"Crackling" during playback is nothing to do with the output device. (unless it also happens when you're playing music)
It's entirely due to the WDM driver...
I respectfully disagree with this part. Read my post (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=93720.msg663013#msg663013) above.
I have sound interfaces that will crackle with any combination of buffer settings when CPU load spikes when using the WDM driver, but never when not using the WDM driver. I've literally tried all combinations of both buffers. Some settings are better than others, but with that device, load always causes some crackling.
I also have sound interfaces that never crackle when CPU load spikes when using the WDM driver even when running prime 95.
I have tested most of these devices on the same machine, so I can confirm that the only difference is the device. To be crystal clear: none of these devices typically crackle when not using the WDM driver.
and typically caused by using buffer sizes which are too small.
But I agree that most instances of crackling that people experience can be corrected with different buffer settings, and many of the folks in this thread probably need to do more experimenting with both of the buffer settings. Some folks may also have underpowered machines and/or windows configuration issues causing crackles.
But some interfaces (in my experience) will always have some crackling with the WDM in its current form regardless of buffer settings. And some devices seem to never crackle once you've found the right buffer settings. It may be that the WDM driver can be improved to resolve this issue, but results with the current driver seem to vary based on device.
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That's why I said as expected I still have crackling with the Schiit dac. :)
My opinion is that it is the WDM driver also but I wanted to try everything.
I've tried larger buffer sizes. Some people say smaller buffer sizes. I tried smaller.
Some people say it's a combination, I've tried every combination.
There is no buffer size that works on my two laptops as well as about 6 or 7 other people by my count.
This forum has a lot of smart people on it and I am sure that someone will figure it out.
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That's why I said as expected I still have crackling with the Schiit dac. :)
My opinion is that it is the WDM driver also but I wanted to try everything.
I've tried larger buffer sizes. Some people say smaller buffer sizes. I tried smaller.
Some people say it's a combination, I've tried every combination.
There is no buffer size that works on my two laptops as well as about 6 or 7 other people by my count.
This forum has a lot of smart people on it and I am sure that someone will figure it out.
hi a little late to respond to, but do you have either the Gungnir or Bifrost form Schitt? Or do you have the Modi. If it is a Gugnir or Bifrost clciking could occur if you make a playlist mixing sample rates -- this is "almost" normal in my understanding of how there clocks work. They have a brilliant analog module, btw. Anyways a friend bought an uber version of the Bifrost and had crackling and testing it at my house, everything worked perfectly. It came down to the usb bus in his laptop (which I had help with, as I know zero about shared USB buses :D). What you might want to try is a different USB port or a small powered hub to see if the USB connection has anything to do with it.
The Modi on the other hand is not in the same league and is more prone to other windows issues especially the usb connection. Maybe why they sell this now http://schiit.com/products/wyrd (http://schiit.com/products/wyrd) ? :D
For what its worth, the combination I used (audio only) was 10ms for the device buffer and 50ms live playback latency (no DSPs). If you use lots of DSP and crossfading, etc. up the buffer keeping the live playback at 50ms -- as this is just for an audio zone no worries about syncing.
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If it was the USB port, wouldn't it crackle when playing Spotify directly without using the JRiver driver?
I have the Schiit MODI, and the Dragonfly V1.2
I have been educating myself on USB noise and I do think I want to investigate that possibility.
Coincidentally I have been thinking of buying the WYRD but I'm not convinced a plain old USB hub wouldn't work the same. (thoughts?)
Lately I'm getting intermittent ticking noise from my Dell e port II with my Dell E6230 laptop hooked up to it.
It is happening with mouse movement but sometimes just by itself.
I tried a different mouse and different USB ports, removing the dac completely but it is still doing it.
The noise is not coming through the speakers and is a completely different sound.
It does not do it all the time though and definitely not through the speakers.
This never happened before but maybe whatever problem I have is getting worse.
Also if I get a USB hub, do I have to get a 2.0 or will a 3.0 hub work?
I was thinking of this one:
http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Port-2-5A-power-adapter/dp/B00DQFGH80/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426614698&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+powered+hub
I would think using the USB ports on the Dell e port II would work the same as a hub since it has a big power supply that it uses.
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I just got done powering up the Schiit MODI dac with a powered 2.0 USB hub borrowed from the neighbor.
It still crackles using the Jrivers sound driver. :(
Edit to add that I just got done trying the Dragonfly dac on the powered hub and it crackles while using Spotify with the JRiver driver also.
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Check for USB updates at Microsoft.
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Would it make any sense to try using the 3.5 mm audio out jack directly to the AVR as a test with and without JRiver driver?
If it still does it, it's not USB related?
Or am I off base?
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Sure. That would help.
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Would it make any sense to try using the 3.5 mm audio out jack directly to the AVR as a test with and without JRiver driver?
If it still does it, it's not USB related?
Or am I off base?
I tested with no USB, still crackles with MC.
No crackles without MC, with or without USB dac.
I could not find any new USB drivers for this laptop.
Could be just me but I think drums are crisper without using MC with Spotify.
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I tested with no USB, still crackles with MC.
No crackles without MC, with or without USB dac.
I could not find any new USB drivers for this laptop.
Could be just me but I think drums are crisper without using MC with Spotify.
hmm sorry haven't got a clue then. Just one thing out of curiosity, have you tried your new dac/wdm combo from another computer??
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hmm sorry haven't got a clue then. Just one thing out of curiosity, have you tried your new dac/wdm combo from another computer??
Yes, I tried another computer.
Both computers with or without a dac, with wdm driver crackle (with all combinations of buffering and latency)
, without wdm driver no crackle.
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From any source of music?
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From any source of music?
I've only noticed it while using Spotify.
Playing music files is ok.
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WDM had been working perfectly for me, until today, when I tried it with orastream. With WASAPI and a Geek Out (a USB DAC), I get
Firefox: continuous crackling
Chrome: instant blue screen
Opera: continuous crackling
With ASIO and the Geek Out, I get intermittent crackling, just enough to be annoying.
If I have the GO set to WASAPI in JMC, then even if I stop using the WDM driver, but leave it enabled, I have the same issues (ie, instant blue screen with Chrome). I have to disable WDM to use orastream at all with the GO. (I haven't tried it with the built-in Realtek chip yet.)
This is on Windows 8.1, updated this morning, and JMC 20.0.84.
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I set this up in a separate zone to my DAC and loved the audio quality but noticed some glitches on internet video e.g. YouTube. After a short time this got worse and internet video would stop after about 11 secs and would not play further even when refreshed.
A new release of Flash had just arrived so I suspected that at first but after experimenting without success I removed the JRiver WDM and immediately everything played fine again.
That's with Windows 7 and IE 11.
Any ideas?
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Hi
I'm seeing the same issue as mentioned up in post #110, namely that the WDM driver seems to be running in shared mode and windows is resampling everything to the default rate (as defined in the WDM properties advanced tab).
I am trying to pass a 5.1 video soundtrack through to the WDM driver to let MC decode down to 2.0 and night mode to compress audio but the audio is being downsampled to 2 channel before it arrives at MC. The only exception is if I playback from MC itself, in which case it appears to (bypass windows setting) and works fine.
[edit] I assume this may be related to the fact that under encoding formats, windows shows "not compressed formats found".
Is this working as designed, a config problem somewhere on my pc or a possible defect?
tx in advance.
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Is anyone still experimenting with things to get WDM to work without crackling?
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I have 2 Schiit dacs Modi and Bifrost Uber. Using WDM I get intermittent clicks using Spotify. I've tried every combination of buffer settings to no avail. If I don't use JRiver they are both silent as far as noise goes when playing Spotify.
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It would be nice if the devs could give an estimate as to how many of us need to have this problem in order for them to look into fixing it.
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Is this safe to turn back on now, or does it still do that thing where it intermittently replaces your whole "Now Playing" list with a single entry of some weird link text every time a system sound plays outside JRiver playback? It annoyed me to the point I had to turn it off outright, as none of the other suggestions I tried would stop the behaviour.
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Is anyone still experimenting with things to get WDM to work without crackling?
The last thing I tried was an update of my computer bios.
It seemed to work for a dozen songs and then the crackling happened again.
I don't know if that is a clue or not because the crackling is intermittent although usually happens within a song or two.
I currently don't use WDM with Spotify or Pandora, and have run out of things to try.
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I have 2 Schiit dacs Modi and Bifrost Uber. Using WDM I get intermittent clicks using Spotify. I've tried every combination of buffer settings to no avail. If I don't use JRiver they are both silent as far as noise goes when playing Spotify.
What brand computer?
Have you tried using analog audio out?
I tried my 3.5mm audio out and still had crackling audio out.
I have Dell ultrabooks.
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The problem is within JRiver WDM. Spotify natively output through usb from pc to my dacs are no problem. Laptop in question is Vaio Win 8.1. JRiver MC20 audio library WASAPI to dacs also no problem.
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Hi, I've managed to get everything working fairly well with Cyberlink PowerDVD but when the WDM driver (IPC Zone) takes over it's taking focus away from Cyberlink PowerDVD.
Now I can stop this from happening if I go to:
Tool ---> Options ---> Theater View ---> Behavior ---> Jump on play (audio)
and set it from:
Display View (even in playing now)
to:
None
This stops JRiver from switching to Display View and stealing focus from Cyberlink PowerDVD.
But this is no good for me when I'm using JRiver normally in Theater View and play something because then I do want it to jump to Display View.
So it seems JRiver could do with an extra feature maybe?
And that is to be able to set the above setting per zone.
Any other solution or idea welcome.
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Please fix the WDM driver it's been long enough now without any real commitment to getting it sorted out.
I wonder if anyone one the dev team looked into whether this was a clocking ids he as I suspected? If you use vcable (or another piece of software that can report clock speeds) and connect to the MC ASIO driver it wanders around all over the place. Could this be the same issue with the WDM maybe, the crackling sure sounds like a lock problem.
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Please fix the WDM driver it's been long enough now without any real commitment to getting it sorted out.
I am not speaking for the devs, nor am I picking on Orangeart here. But I think there is a lot of commitment .. the question is whether there is something that can be sorted out or not. (or even should for that matter) Other than the Schitt dacs referred to above, which I have successful configured one for a friend of mine ... (have to admit that one is strange.), most issues have disappeared since January.
Personally, I think for the majority of people this works great ... sure there are things that could be improved upon. Its a driver after all, not an additional program function.
In saying that, a laptop connection using a digital output or USB should not have a real problem with streaming Spotify – if JRiver is the renderer, and they are using a motherboard device using WASAPI exclusive … it shouldn't matter what laptop you have. But just because it works from an HTPC to an external DAC, and not with a laptop, IMHO, that doesn't mean necessarily it is a problem with the JRiver driver; I could jump to a conclusion that the laptop is not set up right .. not that this is the case. Or maybe the driver in the PC hasn't been upgraded since it was bought .. who can tell?
I have helped people install this on 14 systems near me ... only 2 had been a little bit problematic ... one person was using a DLNA renderer that was not totally compatible, and another was on a dirty USB connection, had zero ram, and was on a very slow internet connection streaming Flac files.
So, as I'm sure people know that DLNA and UPnP are not universal standards like a redbook CD, Blu Ray etc. right? -- if every DLNA device was normalized to an identical spec that would be one thing, but there is no way (MY thoughts here again not the developers), that I could test equipment and configurations that I don't have access to. Not to mention problems coming from specific configurations the Windows OS (especially Windows 8 :( ) .
So, and I'm just guessing here, but how many people that have problems with noise and clicking etc. are using JRiver as the a renderer and not a DLNA device? How many are using a coax or optical connection to their "dacs", and not USB.
I'm just guessing here of course, but based on what I have seen, a simple default “audio device” using WASAPI, (in exclusive mode, no system sounds), pushed to an external dac/receiver .. well there shouldn't be really any problems. Same with ASIO (if using the JRiver ASIO or a good USB driver like a PSAudio dac I just set up), it just works?! Now most of the guys I helped don't like USB so they are mostly on Optical or HDMI out from their HTPCs. None of them are using pre-pro AV receivers, most have dedicated external DACs. Only one was multichannel. All have Win7 64bit installed
What I'm getting to is ... have you guys that have not found a solution tried setting up with say just WASAPI from your Realtek (or other motherboard adapter)? Not pulling media from JRiver or pushing to another renderer? If your system allows you to, I'd try that. Remember you can set up a specific zone, so if you set up a different one dedicated to streaming using the WDM driver, you can always switch back automatically to your normal configurations. I realize not everyone has the possibility to do this, or maybe their USB dacs, can't work that way, but most will I think. If this is the case maybe the devs can narrow down compatibility issues -- I severely doubt that every DLNA device is compatible, nor would every USB driver for that matter. I'm certainly not pretending to be an expert. Just trying to be logical
If there can be someplace specific to look at -- (eg. noise issues occur only with playback using external DLNA renderers, well maybe the manufacturer paid for the DLNA license stamp, but are short on some of the functions; or noise occurs only on Win 8,1 32bit; or only using specific dac USB drivers) -- then the devs might be able to wok on something specific. I just don't know how developers could test every external variable however.
Now, if the set up is a simple default one, using JRiver as the renderer, and WASAPI or ASIO drivers. Then they should know about that. (Reading through some of the problems, I'm not that sure if anyone has set their system up that way ... ) Others are very knowledgeable, but this is, once again my opinion, is an advanced option not an out-of-the-box-will-work-with-anything function. I just skimmed over the post again, but I'm not sure how the set up looks like, just what hardware they are using sometimes.
Just a note on synchronization issues (audio=>video). Yes, this can be frustrating. The first time it took me 30 minutes to get it more or less right. After wards I use the BBC sync video posted in the main thread, and just lower one of the two variables usually. Are people using a syncing video to help? Its very difficult IMHO without one.
Anyway, just my 2 cents (or a hundred as it were :) ) I want everybody to be able to take advantage of this driver, and I'm not belittling the frustration this is causing. However, I think this is going to go around in circles unless it can be narrowed down to how people have actually set this up to get some kind of a pattern.
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Just wanted to add that it is not a usb dac problem, at least on my machine.
It crackles using the 3.5mm audio out jack also.
I'm not sure what dlna would have to do with my problem.
I'm just trying to listen to music off my laptop.
Two different laptops, but they are both Dell (different models) so maybe a Dell problem.
Sorry I'm not an expert so maybe what I'm saying does not make sense.
I appreciate all the help.
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I've always used the usb cable with my Nuforce Icon HDP. And jriver is set to WASAPI exclusive. Still crackles. I'm on Win 8.1 64bit. I'd be happy to supply additional info or try things, etc.
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Try adjusting the buffer.
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Is there anyone experiencing the crackling problem that IS NOT using Windows 8.1?
I am using Windows 8.1 Pro, 64 bit version.
For those with problems could you post your Windows version?
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I'm using 8.1 64 bit
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My computer tells me that the wdm driver caused a system crash the other day
I think it was associated with the laptop (dell xps 13 9343) sleeping but not 100% sure.
I did try to dbg it at the time but it just reported no symbols available so I couldn't really get anywhere with it, that error code is https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff559329%28v=vs.85%29.aspx which seems associated with a driver that doesn't release when it's meant to (or something like that). I do have a 500M memory.dmp file if that would be useful.
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Try adjusting the buffer.
Thanks Jim. This worked for me. I've tried everything and I finally got spotify to stream through without any clicks or pops. I set buffering to 500ms, live latency 500ms and my setting for Lynx Hilo are below:
(http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn12/michael_lowe2/hilo%20settings_zpsl51ivc9c.png) (http://s300.photobucket.com/user/michael_lowe2/media/hilo%20settings_zpsl51ivc9c.png.html)
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I'm on 8.1.
I use various pro studio interfaces with solid ASIO drivers over FireWire. All of them will let me be glitch free without the WDM driver down to about 2ms latency but I run them at about 8 anyhow.The pro drivers for these devices report if they drop a packet and they don't, even using the WDM driver. Playing through the WDM driver with any latency setting will not yield a system that plays glitch free at all so the packets are definately being lost in the WDM driver not the ASIO stream. I have reported quite a few times using an app that can sniff the clocks (vcable) reports that the input of the jriver audio stream is requesting a clock rate that wanders around. I put forward that maybe the WDM driver just has trouble locking to this clock? I did start a thread about it and got a message that it was being looked at. That was a long while ago though. We seem to have gone backward from a position when it was acknowledged there was a problem to a point where 'change the latency' has become the default answer. It's not the answer though for some of us obviously and the time has come surely when the devs need to be engaging in an open and honest conversation about the problems. Maybe collecting log files or producing a tool to track user problems and report back to them. The days of software companies burying their head in the sand have for the most part been behind us for a few years now so I personally find this a little disappointing.
I know I'll probably get flamed for this but I am a bit fed up.
Stefan
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I'm on 8.1.
I know I'll probably get flamed for this but I am a bit fed up.
Stefan
Not by me you won't -- although adding that you are fed up is sort of redundant. :) I have none of the understanding that MWilems or 638 or the devs here do. Just trying to get people to be a little empirical is all.
[@Stefan - Actually I just read your other posts from January to which Hendrick replied to you saying it would be slow ... slow means 2, 6 months? Not that I have a clue about developing drivers, but what little I understand they normally need pretty broad testing .. maybe they should have waited a year? I'm sort of happy JRiver didn't, personally but thats just me.]
Anyways Stfan I think this is valuable info: you are also on 8.1 you are using a firewire pro interface; and reading between the lines you have some hefty dsps (like multiple convolution filters, parametric eq, etc?). Well this type of set-up, I would think, would be much more susceptible to timing issues, than streaming spotify directly to desktop speakers. Maybe you could send your results to Matt ? :)
Question -- if losing packets is so important for certain set-ups, could poor internet connections (ping times for example) and poorly performing LAN set-ups also provoke this issue? I'm saying this as I can't understand why for the guy with the Schitt dac has problems and the one I set-up don't. My very amateur conclusion with that is that its not the DAC clocks nor the WDM driver but some other variable?
Anyway I'd say Stefan falls into one category of advanced users, the other people might not need the precision in the mean time. I think for audio streaming only (video sync would normally require lower latency), I think it would be interesting for the others on like Cullingham and Mutato (and why not zero-dg) to try/verify a real basic set-up (see screen shot attached - not meaning to be patronizing here, guys. just in case some one who really is just starting out reads this).
With 100ms buffer and 50ms live latency using a SPDIF optical or coax if possible (@Mutato the NuForce is not async USB I think, might even sound better?) that should resolve most issues with simpler set-ups, waiting for fine tuning of the driver. If it doesn't then that could also be helpful to know more details. (btw, Dallas's 500ms seems really very high - wondering if the 100/50ms combo would work for the Lynx)
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I would encourage the devs to actually try one of the many dacs associated with crackling talked about here and elesewhere. Hell, maybe someone would be willing to lend them one? That sounds like a lot more productive course of action than fruitlessly trying to convince the naysayers that the WDM driver is at fault.
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I would encourage the devs to actually try one of the many dacs associated with crackling talked about here and elesewhere. Hell, maybe someone would be willing to lend them one? That sounds like a lot more productive course of action than fruitlessly trying to convince the naysayers that the WDM driver is at fault.
lots of DACs out there, but I'm sure they would be pleased if they got lent some :) Did you check yours with the simple config I suggested just to see, btw?
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lots of DACs out there, but I'm sure they would be pleased if they got lent some :) Did you check yours with the simple config I suggested just to see, btw?
We have quite a few.
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lots of DACs out there, but I'm sure they would be pleased if they got lent some :) Did you check yours with the simple config I suggested just to see, btw?
I did (even though your reasoning as to why it should work is flawed). It still crackles. I've spent way too much time trying to get it work in proportion to the amount of nagging I do about it here.
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Did you read this carefully?
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
Especially this?
You may need to adjust the buffer size down in Options > Audio > Device settings. I used 10ms.
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Did you read this carefully?
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
Especially this?
Yes. It did not help.
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Without re-reading the thread, what buffer sizes have you tried? Be specific.
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Without re-reading the thread, what buffer sizes have you tried? Be specific.
I have tried setting the buffer size to: "Minimum hardware size", "5 milliseconds", "10 milliseconds", "25 milliseconds", "50 milliseconds", "100 milliseconds", "250 milliseconds" and "500 milliseconds".
I have also tried setting the "Live playback latency" to: "Minimum", "10 milliseconds", "20 milliseconds", "50 milliseconds", "100 milliseconds", "250 milliseconds" and "500 milliseconds".
During that last 4 months I have additionally made the effort to try any and all possible combinations of the above 15 values.
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Question: any chance to fully remove the driver?
I installed the test version 20, them removed it and installed my already purchased version 19.
Now installed cakewalk sonar. That DAW wants to use MC20 driver! Why???
Shouldn't be there anymore!
And I don't want that additional driver with MC running in background while doing own music. It's about latency only.
Please advise how I can remove the driver fully.
Nevertheless: the idea is great!
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Question: any chance to fully remove the driver?
Uncheck:
Options > General > Features > WDM Driver
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I recently bought a Verizon Jetpack, a wireless hotspot so I thought I would retry Spotify and the WDM driver using it.
No joy, Still crackles I'm afraid.
Anyway I thought it couldn't hurt to try and just thought I'd post my results.
And yea, I've tried every combination of buffering and latency.
Also tried two different dac's and going direct, still crackles.
Even tried a completely different laptop.
And I swear it sounds better without WDM, especially the crispness of drums, could just be me though.
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BACKGROUND
Question asked previously by protonamorfo in Nov 2014:
Re: NEW: WDM Driver (Use MC for browser audio)
Which method is better to achieve the best and most straight audio path to sound card in JRiver for Windows sounds, the WDM driver or the WASAPI Loopback? Thank you in advance.
________________________________________
Answer provided by JimH in Nov 2014:
WASAPI. WDM isn't available on output. It is only used to input the sound to JRiver Media Center.
MY QUESTION PROBLEM TODAY
I have been using the Loopback WASAPI feature in MC20 to play HD YouTube music videos i.e. Laurence Juber. The input noted in Audio Path is 96kHz 32bit 2ch. The output noted in Audio Path is 96kHz 24bit (padded) 2ch using WASAPI. The default (unused) device is the Realtek Digital Output device. Wonderful guitar sound through my Marantz SR6008
I decided to try the WDM driver. I set everything up according to the recommended steps. The same music videos played beautifully. Then, I noticed the input and output in Audio Path. The input noted in Audio Path is 44.1kHz 16bit 2ch. The output noted in Audio Path is 44.1kHz 24bit (padded) 2ch using WASAPI (direct connection).
My computer is a Dell XPS8500 i7 with 64bit Windows 7.
Why the difference in the Input and Output numbers? Did I miss some settings that would provide the higher resolution signals using the WDM driver? What does this mean for the choices to hear the more detailed music if the the other player is providing high resolution music in 5.1? Is there something basic that I don't understand?
##############################
MORE
Regarding static, crackling, etc that I read about in the above posts, I offer this incident. At a friends house last night, I decided to show her how to play the YouTube videos using the Loopback WASAPI feature. She has MC19 and a Dell i7 laptop with 64bit Windows 8.1.
I could not get the Loopback WASAPI feature to work correctly. Using the same YouTube videos that I played on my system, the music coming from the front L and R speakers was overlayed by a constant static, crackling sound. She is planning to upgrade to MC20 so I didn't spend an enormous amount of time trying to solve.
Are there any answers for static problems with Loopback and MC19? I read that many of the people having static problems were using Windows 8.1 so is it the problem?
Thank you for your work and support. MC20 is great!
Harry
Marietta GA
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I've tried the WDM driver on my system. Initially, it didn't work. When I tried setting the JRiver WDM driver as the default sound device and then picked properties to set the format for sample rate and bitdepth, the dialog seems to lock up without accepting my settings. The swirling circle processing icon spins indefinitely. When I try to close the dialog, I get the message "Windows Shell Common DLL is not responding." Also, the speaker setup controls don't work and will eventually generate the same error message. Without being able to adjust the WDM driver settings, I am stuck with the audio getting downsampled to 16 bit/ 44.1 KHz, which is the default sample rate/bitdepth.
After rebooting my PC, I was able to get the JRiver WDM driver working and make the adjustment described above. It seems to work pretty well, but using my Microsoft MCE remote is a little screwy. I had MC20 running in the background, and when I run Windows Media Center to watch TV, the remote is controlling both applications. Buttons on the remote might trigger one command for one app and something else for the other. For example, if you pick the green button, WMC goes to the main menu, simultaneously, MC20 displays the main Theater View screen. Even though you are running WMC, Theater View takes over the screen.
Also, the volume control with the remote is weird. The range or scale is different between WMC and MC20. When you use the remote to adjust the volume with WMC, the setting may say '20', but it could still be fairly quiet. Normally that setting was pretty loud. With WMC's volume set to 50, it should be at full volume, but it is not. When I adjust the volume to 0 (mute) there is still sound.
Since this PC doesn't normally run Media Server (we usually load the library from a different PC on our network), I hadn't tried it with just Media Server in the background. With just Media Server running, we no longer have any volume control with our Microsoft MCE remote. Even after launching MC20, I still can't control WMC's volume using my remote. It "sort-of" worked with MC20's volume control set to 'internal volume'. I can no longer get it to work. Now the only way I can adjust the volume is to move the slider with my mouse.
My audio device is an Echo AudioFire 8. I'm running it in ASIO mode in MC20. It doesn't work in WASAPI or Kernal Streaming mode. I tried it in Direct Sound mode and it works, but not as well as it does in ASIO mode.
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I can't get the WDM driver to show up in the windows default sound device dialog. I just installed the latest build of MC 20 (trial, currently on 18), enabled the WDM driver in MC options, restarted the PC, installed MC 20 again, and restarted again... what am I missing?
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Hello,
Sat down today to listen to my headphones and noticed that they didn't sound as good as they normally do, so after some digging, I found that the jriver driver had disappeared. I have no idea how it happen. I downloaded another copy of jriver and reinstalled it, but at the end of the install I got "removing WDM driver". For some reason the program is unable to install the driver. The driver worked perfectly before it went missing.
Occasionally when I start jriver it'll reinstall by itself for no apparent reason so I suspect that the driver was removed during a reinstall.
Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks
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In build 96 and above, the feature is off by default. Please turn it on in Tools > Options > General > Features. You may need to install again.
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To everyone who is missing the WDM driver, go to Options-->General-->Features and check the box next to the WDM driver. The driver now defaults to off and as part of the switch it may have unchecked the setting for you. You should only have to re-enable it once (I only had to do it once).
EDIT: whoops, ninja'd by Jim. I'll leave this here anyway.
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That's all it was.. thanks for the quick response!
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Like Andrewt & ctvick, my JRiver automatically updated from v.93 to v.103 and the WDM driver disappeared on my desktop and dedicated music mini-desktop. On my laptop, the WDM driver never disappeared. I tried turning on the WDM option like Andrewt and re-installing like the forum/JimH/Matt suggested and the WDM driver never showed up in Playback Devices under Windows 8.1. I even completely uninstalled JRiver 20 and re-installed the program and the driver still didn't show up. Is there a bug in the update or in the "auto" install when you check off the WDM driver box in Tools/Options/General/Features?
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Did you try rebooting?
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I think I've tried everything I can think of, including rebooting several times. Short of wiping the machine and re-installing Windows, I'm out of ideas. I have to admit my regular desktop and laptop didn't run into this problem. Not sure why. My laptop installed without a glitch. My desktop did uninstall the driver but I was able to re-install it. When I installed JRiver on my mini-desktop the install process displays that WDM driver is being installed but nothing gets added as a Windows playback device each time. And I must have reinstalled JRiver 10 times on that machine. I've tried making sure JRiver doesn't automatically launching startup. I've tried disabling my audio drivers while installing JRiver. Maybe someone else will run into the same problem and let you know and you can figure it out. Or maybe it'll just fix itself with the next release. I will survive. After all the manipulations, I also realize that I can no longer open a Live stream in JRiver either. Not sure why. I've gone back to listening to Tidal in Chrome without capturing the stream in JRiver. I use the program to remove two minor room peaks so I'll manage without the parametric EQ.
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Hi everyone , I too have the same problem after the upgrade to the 103 wdm are no longer installed
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Hi everyone , I too have the same problem after the upgrade to the 103 wdm are no longer installed
You need to manually enable the feature in Options > General > Features > WDM Driver. Then install again.
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thanks for the reply , but I've done that and it does not work
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I just thought of the fact that my mini-music desktop runs Windows 8.1 32-bit, whereas my laptop runs Windows 8.1 64-bit and the desktop runs Windows 7 64-bit. I'm not sure if the WDM driver install and the Open Live WASAPI Loopback problem is related to 32-bit Windows. Maybe not...
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I've tried rebooting and reinstalling multiple times (WDM driver is checked in JRiver options). I noticed that JRiver appears as an output in particular programs, but not the main windows playback devices dialog. I'm running Vista 32 bit. So it looks like the driver is installed...? How can I make it show up? I have a Presonus Firestudio as my main sound device using ASIO if that makes any difference.
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You may be seeing the JRiver ASIO driver, and not the JRiver WDM driver in those applications.
I wish I could help you, but I am having similar issues.
Every time I update now, the driver is being removed from my system (Windows 8.1 x64) despite the feature being enabled.
I have also started to get crackling during playback which was not an issue prior to 20.0.96 and had to increase the buffer size, throwing audio out of sync.
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Looks like they figured it out. Last few posts in the v20.0.106 build thread.
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Just tried installing 20.0.108 on my mini-music desktop (CAPSv3 Carbon). WDM Driver still didn't show up in Windows Audio Playback Devices. But then I finally figured out I screwed up the configuration for WASAPI Loopback before so at least that works. Still don't know if the WDM problem is related specifically to my mini-desktop or not.
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Just tried installing 20.0.108 on my mini-music desktop (CAPSv3 Carbon). WDM Driver still didn't show up in Windows Audio Playback Devices.
You still have to enable it manually in Tools > Options > General > Features. Otherwise, it'll never show up.
And, as mentioned above, the system might act a bit crazy if you're running as a Standard (non-Admin) user in Windows.
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Trying to get WDM setup, think that I am close. Let me explain. I am running Windows 8.1, 20.0.108 installed on my desktop computer. I have two powered speakers setup on this computer with a Meridian Explorer2 dac. I created a new zone and have it configured, under audio options using the same Audio Device setting as I am using for the player (two powered speakers) Meridian Explorer 2 USB DAC audio (WASAPI). Under Windows Playback devices I have JRiver Media Center selected as the default playback device. The buffer has been set to 10ms as recommended, Other buffer settings have been tried without any success. When I test the Speakers in Windows Sound I hear two sounds one for each speaker, when JRiver Media Center 20 is tested nothing is heard although the meter is moving indicating sound is being played. At this time I am playing a youtube video and the display screen of the new zone that was created is counting time then Live (1:25/Live ) the Spectrum Analyzer is also moving. Any ideas?
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I am having the same issues as above, it just will not show up in the sound settings. Have unchecked and rechecked, rebooted, etc.
This is a fresh install of Win 8.1 (64-bit) on a Brix 4010.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Are there any solutions to this issue?
I uninstalled JRiver and reinstalled to see if that would help but still nothing. I check the WDM box under features, it gives me the prompt, says it's installed and I need to restart JRiver. I do that, go to Windows Sound and nothing.
I see there are 2 dll's under drivers in the JRiver install dir, can I just move these somewhere to install them manually, I just want to force this to install so I can use it again.
Side note, before I reformatted the Brix this was running perfectly, so I have no idea why now the plugin just will not install.
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Make sure you're using the latest build from the top of this board. It's 20.0.108.
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Make sure you're using the latest build from the top of this board. It's 20.0.108.
Thanks for that, I was downloading it from the homepage (which I figured would be the newest), turns out that was 103 not 108.
All working now.
Cheers
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Well I am getting closer but still need help. I am running MC 20.0.108 and at this time, I am playing youtube with JRiver Media center 20 as my playback device in Windows 8.1. thru the new local zone that I have created. Perfect playback. What I need, is to play Tidal, Pandora, youtube, Amazon prime music library, etc. thru Dynamic zones, the most important zone is (Squeezebox classic 3). Could someone try to help me figure this out, I have spent many hours trying to configure the dynamic zones, but am not getting anywhere.
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Hi guys,
I would be grateful to get any recommendations regarding the followings:
After installing new WDM, I faced extremely high-volume sharp noise appearing really randomize while playing youtube streaming files. it surely can hurt any speaker and I shall very appreciate your help to fixing the issue.
Regards,
Val
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Hi guys,
I would be grateful to get any recommendations regarding the followings:
After installing new WDM, I faced extremely high-volume sharp noise appearing really randomize while playing youtube streaming files. it surely can hurt any speaker and I shall very appreciate your help to fixing the issue.
Regards,
Val
Hi Val.
I don't know what's happening but increasing the buffering in Options > Audio > Advanced > Live playback latency is a good first step.
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Still not working well.
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Still not working well.
Please describe the problem and what you've tried.
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I am having an issue that I can't resolve. I'm running the newest beta version of MC20 on a trial basis. I am using the WDM driver and it works wonderfully for just about everything so far. It works for games, for Steam, for Spotify. The problem I'm having is with Plex Home Theater. I'm streaming a movie directly with no transcoding. The movie plays fine in Plex Home theater and in JRiver with no issues. Once I tell Plex that the output bitstreaming device is WASAPI JRiver the playback slows to about a frame every couple of seconds with no sound being played. The CPU on the computer is at 7% so it isn't being slowed due to performance that I can tell. Any ideas on why it doesn't like this setup? As soon as I switch the device setting in Plex to WASAPI ATI HDMI it again works as intended.
While I would prefer to use JRiver as my front end it is just really ugly. I'm amazed that there has been so much work into such an amazing piece of software but there has been little to no change in the visual appeal of the software since Theater view was introduced. It works great with a keyboard and mouse but isn't very pretty in my Home Theater.
I will try to create a video to clearly show what is happening instead of trying to describe it once I am home tonight.
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I don't know why Plex isn't happy with JRiver's WDM driver, but you can customize Theater View in the options. It also works with a Media Center Remote (Green Button).
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I will be asking my question on their forums as well. I'd entirely drop Plex in the Home Theater if JRiver was a bit more visually appealing and intuitive. I know there is a lot of customization that can be done but I'd rather not. I've been at this this game for a long time and don't want to spend the time. I want it to look as good as Plex, Media Browser, or at least MyMovies. I've been using front ends since myHTPC and Meedios were around but am really tired of spending so much time to get everything setup perfectly. I'm happy to settle for good enough. The quality of your Audio and Video is vastly superior to everyone else but your aesthetic and UI leave much to be desired. Just my humble opinion. Still love your product though. I come back to test it every six months or so and with the WDM driver, convolution, and room correction I think I'm finally ready to buy.
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Did you look at the settings choices? Skins, size, etc.
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To my knowledge there only one other Theater View Skin. http://accessories.jriver.com/mediacenter/accessories.php
It isn't in the same ball park as other offerings aesthetically. I've not seen anything in JRiver even with tweaking rival the look of MediaBrowser or Kodi. Of course your feature list and quality of Audio and Video is much better. I will say for the standard view MetroX looks great.
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I'll split this thread later.
Try a search for JRiver Theater View at images.google.com (https://www.google.com/search?biw=1400&bih=670&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=jriver+theater+view+&oq=jriver+theater+view+&gs_l=img.3..0i7i30.5508.8412.0.8856.8.8.0.0.0.0.70.382.7.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..1.7.381.clWR24dlZ2g#imgrc=esWWEDreHSDKKM%253A%3BdGJjH30uqKDD8M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fs8.postimg.org%252Fys5exlkk5%252FMCUX_2.png%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fyabb.jriver.com%252Finteract%252Findex.php%253Ftopic%253D79340.0%3B1280%3B720).
There are several on the Third Party board here.
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Thanks. Some of those look great. I guess I was expecting some of this to be easier to find. I don't know if it was been brought up earlier in this thread but in version 103 I can't get the WDM driver to install. As soon as I select to run the latest version in update channels I get an update and the driver installs just fine.
Well.... the one that looked great was never finished. MC:UX https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=79340.50
The memorable quotes from that thread, "Hopefully J River will wake up one day and take theatre view out of the dark ages one way or another." and ..."yea I guess there is a reason why we get so few third party Theater View skins."
Back to the drawing board.
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Anyone out there with an Echo AudioFire device having any luck with the WDM? I've tried every possible combination of latency settings, but I'm still getting clicks and pops. I've hit on what I thought was the perfect setting, and it will be good for a half hour to an hour, but then the stutter comes back. I make extensive use of the PEQ but no convolution. Active speaker setup using MC for 2.5 way speakers plus two subs on Win8.1.
Anytime I want to do any critical listening to a streaming service I have to fall back to ASIO Bridge which works perfectly.
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Can somebody please explain to me how to post a general question to the forum? Ugh, I guess I'm too stupid to use this forum, LOL. Sorry to invade your post yo.
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Use "New Topic" in the upper right corner of the index page.
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Has anyone with the crackling issues had any luck in finding a work around?
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Please read the first post for instructions about buffering.
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Has anyone with the crackling issues had any luck in finding a work around?
nope, I've given up
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I've had a WDM problem reappear in version 115 - namely large latency (around 0.5 sec). The windows sound control panel for the WDM driver shows the behaviour with the test tones.
Had the same problem about 3 or 4 updates ago. With an update it was fixed - no other changes.
So maybe it's a driver install problem. I have tried deselecting WDM driver in 'features', quitting jriver and restarting. The reselecting WDM driver. But this didn't fix it.
Any other suggestions? Or any idea if it will be fixed in the next version?
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I just started playing with the WDM driver and I am having trouble getting the driver to work with linked zones audio output.
My HTPC running MC20 is the heart of my HT and 2 channel setup. Depending on the application, I use the following audio outputs on my HTPC:
1. AMD video card HDMI audio out
2. Motherboard analog audio out (I have a gigabyte H81 AMP-UP motherboard with opamps and the sound is very good.
3. Motherboard SPDIF out to external DAC
4. Motherboard USB Audio out to external DAC.
Within MC20 I have no problems creating audio outputs for all 4 above and feeding linked zones feature to output the same audio to any or all of the devices above. My issues start if I add the WDM driver to the mix.
I am trying to work around an issue with the spotify windows app. Spotify will output to the windows default audio only. There is no way to select a specific or multiple audio outputs. I would like to use MC20 linked zone feature to send the audio out all interfaces simultaneously.
I have installed the latest version of MC20. I have set the WDM driver as the windows audio default. I can output the WDM incoming audio to one MC20 audio device with good sound. However, if I link 2 or more zones, the audio only is played out of only one zone and it is garbled. The IPC "playing now" stream shows up in all zones. I have tried creating a null output zone and linking that into my linked zones. I have tried using zoneswither as well.
So WDM in and out thru MC20 works for one zone. Does not work for me with linked zones. Suggestions?
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Ok an update, it looks like I CAN link MC20 zones with the WDM driver and playback audio within MC20. However, when I capture audio from outside MC20 I get the stuttering.
Here is my setup in more detail:
Win 7 default audio set to WDM driver.
Spotify app playing audio to WDM driver (as default windows output)
MC20 zoneswitch captures the "IPC" audio to a loopback zone defined with a "null output" audio device.
loopback zone is linked to the audio zones for all of my other output devices.
garbled stuttering output to one zone. Silence to the others.
I just started playing with the WDM driver and I am having trouble getting the driver to work with linked zones audio output.
My HTPC running MC20 is the heart of my HT and 2 channel setup. Depending on the application, I use the following audio outputs on my HTPC:
1. AMD video card HDMI audio out
2. Motherboard analog audio out (I have a gigabyte H81 AMP-UP motherboard with opamps and the sound is very good.
3. Motherboard SPDIF out to external DAC
4. Motherboard USB Audio out to external DAC.
Within MC20 I have no problems creating audio outputs for all 4 above and feeding linked zones feature to output the same audio to any or all of the devices above. My issues start if I add the WDM driver to the mix.
I am trying to work around an issue with the spotify windows app. Spotify will output to the windows default audio only. There is no way to select a specific or multiple audio outputs. I would like to use MC20 linked zone feature to send the audio out all interfaces simultaneously.
I have installed the latest version of MC20. I have set the WDM driver as the windows audio default. I can output the WDM incoming audio to one MC20 audio device with good sound. However, if I link 2 or more zones, the audio only is played out of only one zone and it is garbled. The IPC "playing now" stream shows up in all zones. I have tried creating a null output zone and linking that into my linked zones. I have tried using zoneswither as well.
So WDM in and out thru MC20 works for one zone. Does not work for me with linked zones. Suggestions?
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I'm still having the same latency problem (around 0.5 sec) with ver 124.
Any ideas? WDM driver used to work fine
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I'm disappointed that this WDM driver still seems to have the same issues and we are moving to the next release version. The only reason I bought jriver in the first place was because of the audio engine (which is brilliant) and the WDM driver.
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The idea of having a working WDM driver was the sole reason I purchased MC20. I have not given up hope of ever having that.
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What's the chance that we'll be seeing the WDM feature implemented for the Mac version? What I would pay to have this feature... :)
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still struggling....
Ok an update, it looks like I CAN link MC20 zones with the WDM driver and playback audio within MC20. However, when I capture audio from outside MC20 I get the stuttering.
Here is my setup in more detail:
Win 7 default audio set to WDM driver.
Spotify app playing audio to WDM driver (as default windows output)
MC20 zoneswitch captures the "IPC" audio to a loopback zone defined with a "null output" audio device.
loopback zone is linked to the audio zones for all of my other output devices.
garbled stuttering output to one zone. Silence to the others.
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Seeing the same problem as BradC after updating from 124 to 131. Latency of about .5 second.
Cleared the problem by removing WDM driver from options, exited MC and then executed the MediaCenter200131.exe file directly to reinstall. Then renabled WDM driver in options. Latency then went back to normal.
Had a similar experience when doing the 115 to 124 update, on that occasion I had executed the 115 install file to downgrade as I thought the issue was related to the the 124 build.
Weird eh? (and a PITA)
Windows 7 x64 system ASUS DX2 sound card using WASAPI
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With JRiver 20.0.131 and Windows 8.1, I experience intermittent background noise when listening to Spotify premium using the WDM driver. I have 2 zones named Player and WDM and have zone switch set up to activate WDM on Ipc input; all of this works correctly. The noise is randomly separated scrapes or clicks at about every few seconds on average. They are only moderately loud but are audible over the music. If the music is paused, the clicks stop. If I bypass the WDM driver when noise is present and play Spotify outside JRiver, the clicks are never present. When the clicks are present, they appear to be unaffected by settings of the input and output buffering, unless these are set very low, whereupon they greatly increase. Since I was never able to find a "sweet spot" for the two buffering parameters, I have the buffering parameters set at their recommended values.
Here is the maddening part. On some days or even parts of days, the playback with WDM is quiet. So far, I cannot figure out what distinguishes quiet and noisy conditions. If the clicks are on Spotify, I should hear them whether or not WDM is used. When the WDM playback is quiet, I am unable to trigger noise deliberately by surfing the net with a web browser (Firefox) or running other applications. I will next try to correlate noise clicks with CPU activity in the Task Manager, and see if anything interesting can be found. Rebooting has so far not given any consistent result.
Anyone else experiencing this particular type of noise problem? Other than the intermittent background noise, WDM is working fine for me. The zone switch is great and has made WDM much more stable; I used to crash WDM a fair bit, but not any more. The big thing now is how to diagnose the WDM problem and correlate it with something happening on the computer.
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With JRiver 20.0.131 and Windows 8.1, I experience intermittent background noise when listening to Spotify premium using the WDM driver. I have 2 zones named Player and WDM and have zone switch set up to activate WDM on Ipc input; all of this works correctly. The noise is randomly separated scrapes or clicks at about every few seconds on average. They are only moderately loud but are audible over the music. If the music is paused, the clicks stop. If I bypass the WDM driver when noise is present and play Spotify outside JRiver, the clicks are never present. When the clicks are present, they appear to be unaffected by settings of the input and output buffering, unless these are set very low, whereupon they greatly increase. Since I was never able to find a "sweet spot" for the two buffering parameters, I have the buffering parameters set at their recommended values.
Here is the maddening part. On some days or even parts of days, the playback with WDM is quiet. So far, I cannot figure out what distinguishes quiet and noisy conditions. If the clicks are on Spotify, I should hear them whether or not WDM is used. When the WDM playback is quiet, I am unable to trigger noise deliberately by surfing the net with a web browser (Firefox) or running other applications. I will next try to correlate noise clicks with CPU activity in the Task Manager, and see if anything interesting can be found. Rebooting has so far not given any consistent result.
Anyone else experiencing this particular type of noise problem? Other than the intermittent background noise, WDM is working fine for me. The zone switch is great and has made WDM much more stable; I used to crash WDM a fair bit, but not any more. The big thing now is how to diagnose the WDM problem and correlate it with something happening on the computer.
Yes I have the same problem on two different laptops. See my past history for more info. Sorry, I have no solutions for you. I tried everything that was told me and everything I could think of to isolate it. I have stopped using JR with Spotify because of the problem.
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Hope there will be a solution for my problem:
Windows 7 professional, MC 20.131, TIDAL streaming, Media PC with Windows remote control by an android tablet.
I installed the WDM driver, everything is working perfectly. Audio has the WDM driver. When I try to get access to windows by the tablet, the audio driver switches to "remote audio" and of course, I hear nothing. Thanks in advance, greetings from Germany
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Hope there will be a solution for my problem:
Windows 7 professional, MC 20.131, TIDAL streaming, Media PC with Windows remote control by an android tablet.
I installed the WDM driver, everything is working perfectly. Audio has the WDM driver. When I try to get access to windows by the tablet, the audio driver switches to "remote audio" and of course, I hear nothing. Thanks in advance, greetings from Germany
How are you remotely controlling the PC? I'm guessing RDP? Try using a different remote control solution like VNC or teamviewer that don't mess with the audio device.
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culliganman noted the following with respect to cracking noises on Spotify:
Yes I have the same problem on two different laptops. See my past history for more info. Sorry, I have no solutions for you. I tried everything that was told me and everything I could think of to isolate it. I have stopped using JR with Spotify because of the problem.
This would imply that intermittent faults on Spotify might be audible on JRiver (WDM) as crackling, but possibly not when WDM is out of circuit. Since I have listened to the same music on Spotify with and without crackling, the faults (if present) are not in the source. Too bad that Grooveshark (illegal) is gone; I would compare Spotify and Grooveshark with the same music. Although Youtube is not a good comparison, I will check for the same problem on "music only" videos. I would hate to drop premium Spotify, since their classical music collection is amazing; their pop and jazz are pretty good as well. Last evening, there was no crackling on Spotify with WDM. Wish that I knew what was different.
Any comments from JRiver? Based on this thread, WDM is not fault-free yet, and some users are still having problems. Wish I knew whether WDM was detecting errors in the stream and responding aubibly. That you for your reply; it is nice to know someone else has observed these faults.
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I was having a similar crackling problem with Spotify.
By increasing the both buffering options to near max fixed the problem for me.
The problem only started occurring for me with builds >= 124.
Try disabling WDM, reinstalling jriver, enabling jriver as suggested above
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rhallsw - I have exactly the same problem. Some days it's flawless but most days it's not. It doesn't matter what streaming source I use. I've tried every combination of buffer settings with no success. Even if the max latency setting was the answer it would be a no go for video.
Edit: I want to add that it seems at this point the wdm just isn't stable for all systems. Of course, JRiver can't possibly test every configuration we might have. That said ASIO Bridge works fine on my system and afaik it works in the same way.
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I was having a similar crackling problem with Spotify.
By increasing the both buffering options to near max fixed the problem for me.
The problem only started occurring for me with builds >= 124.
Try disabling WDM, reinstalling jriver, enabling jriver as suggested above
Good suggestion to disable WDM and reinstall JRiver. I had 20.0.131, disabled the driver and reinstalled 20.0.132. Unfortunately, the level of crackling on Spotify was exactly the same as before the reinstall. I have not yet tried reverting to an older JRiver version, say 20.0.123.
The question arises as to what is special about Spotify. I have the higher res stream at 320k but this is ordinary by today's standards. I have to try some other audio streams where music can be sampled, and see if the crackling occurs anywhere else.
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I was having a similar crackling problem with Spotify.
By increasing the both buffering options to near max fixed the problem for me.
The problem only started occurring for me with builds >= 124.
Try disabling WDM, reinstalling jriver, enabling jriver as suggested above
This time, I disabled the driver and installed 20.0.123. No difference in the crackling on Spotify. I am going to try some music sample streams, i.e., try before you buy, and see if the problem occurs anywhere else.
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This time, I disabled the driver and installed 20.0.123. No difference in the crackling on Spotify. I am going to try some music sample streams, i.e., try before you buy, and see if the problem occurs anywhere else.
I followed my own suggestion and listened to some non-Spotify audio samples with WDM, namely HDTracks and Classics Online. The cracking was definitely present on HDTracks. On Classics Online, the samples are only a few seconds but I did detect crackles on one of them. I would tentatively suggest that the problem is not unique to Spotify. I cannot explain why the WDM audio crackling problem is not present on some days. If the crackles were caused by small interruptions or drop-outs in the audio stream, the faults should be audible when JRiver is bypassed; however, I never hear crackling when JRIver is not the default device. I have watched Task Manager but have not correlated the crackling with CPU/hard drive activity so far. I was unable to reduce crackling by adjusting the 2 buffering parameters within reasonable limits. Since WDM crackling is now a fault that several users have observed, we need some input from the JRiver experts.
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I have the crackling issue with ALL streaming sources....Spotify, Tidal, Amazon, Netflix, etc
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If you haven't done so, read the WDM instructions. The buffer size is probably the problem.
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If you haven't done so, read the WDM instructions. The buffer size is probably the problem.
I have done so and it isn't the problem. Others have also adjusted buffer size with no positive results.
Buffer size has helped some people and for others it is of no benefit to the crackling audio issue.
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I have MC 20 and Vista and it is the default output in playback devices. I can't use the buffer settings under Options->Audio because I connect to DAC via DNLA (network card).
I use Asio successfully with files from DAC.
My output device is the Perfectwave Dac via its DNLA network card. I can't get sound to Hifi when playing a youtube video or pandora or anything from a browser: Google Chrome or Firefox.
I can see IPC in playing now, but when I press play in MC, it doesn't play and i get a "There was a problem controlling the selected DNLA device..." error.
Sound files from my NAS play fine. And, I am able to play some Connected Streams within MC. Like NPR, but not pandora. Although Pandora did show sound on the spectrum analizer once but nothing from the the speakers. Often Pandore in connected media just shows the splash screen and locks-up MC and doesn't get to the actual playlist screen (even while CPU usage is only at 12%).
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First of all I tried A LOT of things so if you want to know what I already tried look at my previous posts.
In addition to what I previously tried I also tried a Schiit Wyrd USB decrapifier and it made no difference.
Okay so what worked:
I purchased a Peachtree Audio X1 Asynchronous 24/192 USB to SPDIF Converter
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AEN0TA4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
I am using the Peachtree ASIO driver.
So far no crackling audio when using Spotify and JRiver.
Would anyone care to explain to me why this works when nothing I tried before worked?
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Wow, over 250 views since I posted and no replies. I have found that while the crackling is gone, the audio is still not as clear intermittently as without WDM involved and I'm not talking about barely perceptible.
I have some issues with skipping when it first starts also.
I'm not going to reiterate everything I've done again so look at past posts on this subject if you are interested in what I've already tried, buffers, dacs, analog out, two different computers, etc.
So back to using Spotify without WDM.
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I've tried both Default Audio Device [Direct Sound] and Realtek High Definition Audio [Direct Sound]. Neither works.
Edit - I just tried Realtek High Definition Audio [WASAPI] and that works. I hadn't tried it before as according to this thread I thought it was unsupported.
Further Edit - now Realtek High Definition Audio [Direct Sound] is working. Maybe I screwed up trying it before.
Further, further edit. Realtek High Definition Audio [Direct Sound] is working for music playing in MC20 but not for system sounds. That explains my previous experience.
Further, further, further edit. Using Realtek High Definition Audio [Direct Sound] or [WASAPI] I can now get some volume on system sound (most of the time) and on the web (YouTube) but it is very low, and I cannot adjust it.
This may sound silly, but have you tried the following? In MC, turn the "System Volume" to 100%, then change the volume control to control "Application Volume".
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What device do you have selected under Options-->Audio in JRiver? You haven't mentioned that. You should have the realtek selected if that is your actual sound output device. When the WDM driver is the default device JRiver is routing the system audio output to whatever is selected as the output device in JRiver. If you select the "default" in JRiver you just create a closed loop that goes nowhere.
To be clear: to enable the WDM driver, the JRiver WDM should be the default in the Windows Mixer (i.e. control panel), but you should select your actual output device (i.e. the realtek) in JRiver's Audio Options.
HI.
Maybe my question has already been answered, but I speak bad English language, and although I read the post have not found the answer. And in the Spanish forum has not spoken on this issue and there are few participants.
In the sound options on my PC, there isn´t the option of Select MC as an output device, are only the default ones and my dac if connected. The WDM JRiver not on the Windows playback devices.
I am also a user of Tidal, and the preferences of the app is not as audio output device MC.
Please help.
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The instructions are here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
Maybe you missed this:
Please Note: In build 96 and above, the feature is off by default. Please turn it on in Tools > Options > General > Features. You may need to install again.
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The instructions are here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
Maybe you missed this:
Many, many, many thanks, Jim !!
My problem has been solved, I can finally enjoy JRiver.
Greetings from Spain.
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Hello!
i have a problem with WDM driver on Windows 10 64bit. JRiver device is listed as unknown. Cannot install driver. Tried to install manually from jriver install folder. It said windows found driver but error occured during install. Incorrect data or parameters.
Thanks.
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Please try the build from the top of this board. 21.0.42.
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I have this version. It is a clean windows install.
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I have this version. It is a clean windows install.
try excluding JRiver programs from your firewall. (or disabling it during the install). You must be on an administrator acct in Windows too, of course.
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The first i did after install was disable firewall and defender.
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The first i did after install was disable firewall and defender.
maybe this is just a typo? You want to do this BEFORE install. exclusion rules are in the Anti-Virus, not the firewall; sorry should have added that. Some AVs give out false positives
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Sorry, i mean i turned off firewall and defender right after WINDOWS install, not after JRiver install. ;)
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I tried on 2 other PCs, both working. Only my HTPC has trouble. Let's reinstall win (other build) and will see... Worst case switch back to server
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I tried on 2 other PCs, both working. Only my HTPC has trouble. Let's reinstall win (other build) and will see... Worst case switch back to server
ok really going out on a limb here ... but by chance did the WDM driver get un-checked in options? (General=>Features)
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It is checked. I see it among sound devices in device manager. But listed as 'unknown device'. Driver install fails...
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Try re-reading the instructions:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
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Thanks, i think my windows has troubles. I used WDM previously with server 2012 without any problems. Created a zone for chrome+youtube TV and routed sound through jriver.
But now during driver install i get "incorrect parmeters" message.
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Windows reinstall solved the problem. I couldn't imagine what was with previous install. Now WDM works.
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I'm having problems getting the WDM driver to appear in the Windows Settings after installing it following the directions...
I'm on Windows 8.1 Pro (64 bit) on an HP server motherboard.
When I install MC21, it appears to successfully install the WDM driver (at least the dialogue indicates that it is being installed). I followed the directions to turn on the WDM in the General>Settings>Features and then reinstall the software.
When I go to Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Sound the only thing that shows up in the Playback tab is "Remote Audio Device".
If I go to the main Device Manager, it seems to show some drivers from MC21 in the Sound and Game Controllers, but it's not clear that these are the WDM or not, and there is no way to activate them.
A few more details... I am running this machine headless from another using RDC. I suspect that this is the source of the "Remote Audio Device" in the Sound settings, but I'm not positive. For example, when I go to Pandora through the WDC, I can hear the audio at my current (remote) machine, so I suspect it is shunting the audio to my local device and essentially overriding the ability to set up audio output to anywhere else. Do I need to log in directly to the MC21 machine to get the WDM running without using WDC to connect? Is it disallowing the installation of the WDM driver possibly?
Lastly, this being a server MB, it may not have most of the bells and whistles of a normal MB. Is there a possibility that is a source of the problem?
Thanks,
---Michael
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I'm having problems getting the WDM driver to appear in the Windows Settings after installing it following the directions...
I'm on Windows 8.1 Pro (64 bit) on an HP server motherboard.
When I install MC21, it appears to successfully install the WDM driver (at least the dialogue indicates that it is being installed). I followed the directions to turn on the WDM in the General>Settings>Features and then reinstall the software.
When I go to Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Sound the only thing that shows up in the Playback tab is "Remote Audio Device".
If I go to the main Device Manager, it seems to show some drivers from MC21 in the Sound and Game Controllers, but it's not clear that these are the WDM or not, and there is no way to activate them.
A few more details... I am running this machine headless from another using RDC. I suspect that this is the source of the "Remote Audio Device" in the Sound settings, but I'm not positive. For example, when I go to Pandora through the WDC, I can hear the audio at my current (remote) machine, so I suspect it is shunting the audio to my local device and essentially overriding the ability to set up audio output to anywhere else. Do I need to log in directly to the MC21 machine to get the WDM running without using WDC to connect? Is it disallowing the installation of the WDM driver possibly?
Lastly, this being a server MB, it may not have most of the bells and whistles of a normal MB. Is there a possibility that is a source of the problem?
Thanks,
---Michael
Other users have had issues before using Microsoft Remote Desktop precisely because it suppresses local audio drivers (that's why you only see the "remote audio device"). I don't use RDP, but my recollection is that you can turn off the audio relay function which will allow you to control the local audio devices on the server again?
Or you can use a different remote desktop solution like VNC (or teamviewer) which doesn't have the same device suppression issues that RDP does.
It might help if you could provide a better idea of what you're trying to accomplish. What local audio device are you trying to route the WDM output to through JRiver?
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OK, thanks for the response, which confirms what I thought might be the case...
I'll see about the settings for RDC and turn it off if possible. If that doesn't work, I'll go work directly on the server to see about setting it up.
My goal is to set up the server to stream Pandora and other music sources from the web to other devices in the house (Raspberry Pi's), and I believe that I need to use WMD for this.
Now, if it would be possible to set up favorites in MC for the Pandora stations, then I'd be a much happier person.
I'll try some things tonight and see where things stand and then report back. I would suggest that if this is actually a known problem with setting up the WDM drivers, there should be some mention of it in the installation instructions to save people a bunch of hassle.
---Michael
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OK, thanks for the response, which confirms what I thought might be the case...
I'll see about the settings for RDC and turn it off if possible. If that doesn't work, I'll go work directly on the server to see about setting it up.
My goal is to set up the server to stream Pandora and other music sources from the web to other devices in the house (Raspberry Pi's), and I believe that I need to use WMD for this.
Now, if it would be possible to set up favorites in MC for the Pandora stations, then I'd be a much happier person.
I'll try some things tonight and see where things stand and then report back. I would suggest that if this is actually a known problem with setting up the WDM drivers, there should be some mention of it in the installation instructions to save people a bunch of hassle.
---Michael
It's sort of a catch 22: most folks aren't using RDC so it doesn't come up often, and the ones who do use RDC are aware of it's limitations. To be clear, it's not an issue specific to MC's WDM driver, it's an issue with RDC preventing access to any local audio drivers whatsoever in the default settings. If you had an audio card hooked up to the PC you wouldn't be able to see it either, it's not unique to the WDM driver (which is installed according to device manager in your setup).
That said, I'm not sure that the WDM driver will work for your use case as I don't think it can stream audio over the network at the moment (but I haven't tested it personally in that application). You might want to open a thread describing what you're specifically trying to achieve in more details so folks can suggest functional solutions. Otherwise you'll get trapped in a series of x/y problems.
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Yes, I understand that it isn't a problem with the WDM driver, just an interaction issue.
I would have expected that there are a lot of headless people out there, but maybe not, so this may not be a large-scale problem.
I'll try a little tonight and then if I run into any problems, I'll start a new thread for the application I am trying.
Thanks,
---Michael
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I use RDP to access a headless NUC and I can use WDM on the NUC. Check this setting:
(http://www.micropod.com/erg/RDP.PNG)
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WDM is still a problem unfortunately. Verified on multiple Realtek (by far the most popular audio PC hardware) based devices. As others have reported pops, crackles and dropouts are not solved by altering buffer settings. Hopefully JR puts energy into improving this feature.
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It might be worthwhile reading the instructions again to see if you missed anything or find new ideas:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
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It might be worthwhile reading the instructions again to see if you missed anything or find new ideas:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
I hadn't bothered with a new zone. I will try that. I wonder something... If there are audible defects there must also be ones there may be ones that aren't easily audible hmmm.
Just played 20+ songs with no issue! Possible causes for this: In device manager I enabled hidden devices... there were mutiple JRiver WDM versions and removed all but current. Also it seems possible that rebooting after buffer changes does something. Hope this stays!
EDIT: Nope problem remains. Funny thing is I just shuffled my amps around, booted up and wanted to do a left/right check (right click JRiver...configure speakers) and I got crackle pop on just that!
Are devs willing to look into this?
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I hadn't bothered with a new zone. I will try that. I wonder something... If there are audible defects there must also be ones there may be ones that aren't easily audible hmmm.
Just played 20+ songs with no issue! Possible causes for this: In device manager I enabled hidden devices... there were mutiple JRiver WDM versions and removed all but current. Also it seems possible that rebooting after buffer changes does something. Hope this stays!
EDIT: Nope problem remains. Funny thing is I just shuffled my amps around, booted up and wanted to do a left/right check (right click JRiver...configure speakers) and I got crackle pop on just that!
Are devs willing to look into this?
Evidently not beyond copy/pasting the same FAQ. Normally a developer would look to capture users system info (via software/error reporting) and attempt to debug. Personally I have passed on the latest upgrade offer for the first time ever. I do still love the program and will use zones... one which doesn't use WDM for music and one that does for video where I don't care about imperfections. I also revoked my recommendation to my last customer to use JRiver and instead had him use Spotify with the local import feature. We will also be removing the MC from recommendations in our e-zine. Ignoring your loyal customers requests is arguably not a wise business decision.
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Ignoring?
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Ignoring?
When multiple people advise that despite following the FAQ suggestions the problems exist and then ask if you guys are doing anything about this with no response then yes I would say ignoring is an appropriate description?
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Using the trial version of JR 22, loading Media Server at startup, I created a zone for the WDM driver,
the Audio device set to "High definition audio device [Direct Sound]"
prebuffering set to 2 seconds,
live playback latency set to Minimum
default Sound device in Windows (10) is JRiver Media Center 22
using the speakers attached to the computer
when playing an internet game, the sound sometimes goes away for 20+ seconds and then comes back,
this works correctly when the default sound device is set to the ""High definition audio device" instead of "JRiver Media Center 22"
Please advise.
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I have JRiver Media Center show as a sound device. I get Ipc to show up on the MC player and my DLNA device. But no sound comes through. I probably don't have something set up right. Have gone through everything 20x over about 5 hours and cannot figure this out. Any help would be appreciated.
See attachment for pic of what is going on with my system. Maybe you can see something obvious and easy to fix.
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Did you set up audio from MC before trying to use WDM? Instructions for WDM are here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,92593.msg637430.html#msg637430
I don't think it will work with DLNA. Please read more about it.
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Did you set up audio from MC before trying to use WDM? Instructions for WDM are here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,92593.msg637430.html#msg637430
I don't think it will work with DLNA. Please read more about it.
Yes Sir, I read the instructions you linked to several times before posting and I believe my screenshot shows that JRiver is listed as a Playback Device and is set on my computer as the default Playback Sound Device. But, though I am a little tech savvy, compared to most people on this forum, my skills are very rudimentary. I am not a coder and more of a systems guy. Your help is much appreciated.
If DLNA/Upnp is not supported for WDM, then (I know this is a different subject) how are most people playing their music? Do most of you use cables from your computer to receivers, TV's, etc for playing media using MC? I thought the whole point of MC was to go wireless but maybe I have had unrealistic expectations of this tool all along. Understanding this will help me not waste my and others time (after I post questions) trying to do things MC is not designed for.
Thanks!
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The idea of WDM is that you can watch Netflix, or use spotify, or any other app, on the computer that MC is on, and the sound will be routed through MC. This gives you all the DSP options etc.
What exactly are you trying to achieve?
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The idea of WDM is that you can watch Netflix, or use spotify, or any other app, on the computer that MC is on, and the sound will be routed through MC. This gives you all the DSP options etc.
What exactly are you trying to achieve?
I was trying to watch a youtube video on my laptop and stream the music through MC and my sound system just like I listen to all my music. I have a Sony media streaming box feeding a sound system downstairs and upstairs have a Marantz receiver I can use that are both hooked up to my router/wifi. I have all my music on my laptop and use MC to send it over the router to those systems (one at a time since they will not stay in sync if I link zones). So, if I could watch vids on the laptop and send the music through MC and to my UPNP's that would be very cool, fun and useful.
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You would normally link the zones, however my experience is that you cannot stream the ipc zone to another device. I believe the reason is that there is no playback clock to keep the zones synced. I'd love to be able to do so with Spotify etc.
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For instructions, please see the first post in the feature thread here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.msg637430#msg637430
Please post any problems here.
In the instructions, I don't really understand what this means "It's recommended to set this up for a new zone, which you can do by right clicking on Playing Now and choosing Add Zone."
I know how to set up a zone, but how do I link the zone to the Lpc? Do I use default settings or Player? I set up a zone but it doesn't seem to do anything so i am missing something obvious here.
Thanks
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Once you have created a zone, you can use MC's Audio settings to do whatever you want with it. The settings can be different for each zone.