INTERACT FORUM
Devices => Apple iPad, iPhone, iPod, Airplay => Topic started by: Hilton on February 21, 2015, 01:25:09 am
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In a few minutes a couple of video demos will be uploaded to Youtube showing how well JRiver MC20 works with AirPlay whole of house sync using TuneBlade as a dedicated playback zone.
Im not kidding when I say it Works Flawlessly.
This guide is related to my "What can you do with JRiver Media Center" thread, and is the first detailed guide I've put together.
If anyone has questions or ideas to make this simpler please let me know!
I know Jim will move this to the AirPlay forum but I thought a wider audience might appreciate the demo and guide.
Demo of it in action.
Part 1 Quick Overview and run through the house for 5 AirPlay zones in Sync across different devices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rjD2UWgsA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rjD2UWgsA&feature=youtu.be)
Part 2 Turned up a bit to hear Audio in Sync across the 5 Zones and another run back through the house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8aYl2WBJR0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8aYl2WBJR0)
I can now switch between spotify, and MC on the server remotely. There's not much to it really.
Use a dedicated output device on the server for TuneBlade that isn't used by anything else. Install a virtual one if you don't have one spare.
Set TuneBlade to that specific device instead of using loop back.
Set the device windows control panel audio settings to 16/44 on the server and as the default playback device.
Set airfoil speakers on the server to your default sound card (as long as its NOT the same as TuneBlade)
Make sure exclusive mode is turned off everywhere on the server relating to the TuneBlade Audio device that your using.
On the receivers, set Airfoil Speakers to use default device.
Set Windows control panel Audio device that you prefer to use as your default device.
Turn off exclusive mode in MC if your also using that output device for MC.
It sounds like a lot of fiddling but it's only a couple changes.
I can now start spotify on the server, send that via TuneBlade automatically, switch to MC and start playback, the worst that will happen is sound overlapping from both. Which is easier to fix than having to go to your server and restart things.
I'm using the spotify beta which now allows remote control of spotify on the server from any other PC from the new Beta. Phones can also remotely control spotify, so with spotify, JRemote and TuneBlade remote I can do everything I need to do from the phone without having to go near a PC or touch my MC server.
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Overview and a snap shot of the important settings.
This works over Ethernet or WiFi and I have a mixture of both.
In the video the AirPort Express and NUC are both using Wifi.
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/6/5767/30555976806_cb563cb332_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ny8nmj)JRiver-AirPlay-Overview (https://flic.kr/p/Ny8nmj) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
TuneBlade Audio device settings for the Windows TuneBlade Server Audio Device.
In windows sound devices playback devices> device properties> Advanced.
Set for 16bit/44.1 + disable exclusive mode.
Set as default playback device.
The reason for doing this is so that you can also leave Spotify running (or other audio apps) and share the playback with MC20 to get both MC20 and Spotify with synchronized audio through your house. This stops any conflicts with different sample rates and prevents a application taking exclusive access which can cause lockups and crashes.
If two devices try to playback at the same time, instead of crashing TuneBlade you'll just hear both audio devices.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8623/29960560564_82f0fb51ae_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MDvGR3)AirFoil-device-disable-exclusive-control (https://flic.kr/p/MDvGR3) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
AirFoil Audio device settings for the Windows TuneBlade Server if you want local AirPlay playback - (use a different device than the TuneBlade Audio Device)
In windows sound devices playback devices> device properties> Advanced.
Set for 16bit/44.1 + disable exclusive mode.
Set as default playback device.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8623/29960560564_82f0fb51ae_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MDvGR3)AirFoil-device-disable-exclusive-control (https://flic.kr/p/MDvGR3) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
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AirFoil Audio device settings for the Windows machines that you want AirPlay playback.
In windows sound devices playback devices> device properties> Advanced.
Set for 16bit/44.1 + disable exclusive mode.
Set as default playback device.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8623/29960560564_82f0fb51ae_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MDvGR3)AirFoil-device-disable-exclusive-control (https://flic.kr/p/MDvGR3) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
AirFoil on the windows machines settings
You can specify a particular audio device if you want.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5461/30556168156_5a50cee10e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ny9mes)AirFoil-Speaker (https://flic.kr/p/Ny9mes) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
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And of course TuneBlade - What it looks like on the server.
PS. If you set TuneBlade to Connected Standby mode under settings> AirPlay Streaming, it will stop broadcasting when it detects silence for the length of time you set. I have mine set for 10 seconds.
This stops your network being flooded when your not using AirPlay and releases the audio devices on the AirFoil players.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5631/30556191176_9bf0914e54_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Ny9t5m)TuneBlade-interface (https://flic.kr/p/Ny9t5m) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
The TuneBlade Remote App.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5582/30592798725_f4b88c0e80_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NBo6dZ)TuneBlade-Remote (https://flic.kr/p/NBo6dZ) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
JRemote.
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5681/30592805515_4a4a50acc1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/NBo8f4)JRemote-AirPlay (https://flic.kr/p/NBo8f4) by Hilton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133784514@N07/), on Flickr
Posted guide on AVS too. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1903585-airplay-whole-house-sync-jriver-media-center-20-guide.html#post31982425
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Hilton has this nailed. I've too use this setup now and can pump whole house audio from MC via Tuneblade (and initiated from EOS/Gismo) to:
- PC's running Airfoil Client
- Airport Express feeding an amp
- Pio A3 (and soon an A4) Airtunes compatible speaker
- Andriod running Airplayer
The only thing I'd like to find is a "better" alternative to Airplayer for Android as while it "just works" it is missing a couple of bits:
- adjustable buffer (slightly out of sync)
- auto load on startup
I've e-mailed the rep but nil response.
The other option is to use Airfoil as the server as it has a Andriod Client but it is not as reliable as the Tuneblade keeping clients in sync. I have e-mailed them with details and they did respond saying the Devs would be in contact but I've not heard back in the last couple of weeks.
As others have mentioned I also have found that Tuneblade will drop output to Airfoil PC Cleints and you have to stop / start them to get them going again, but the others are rock solid.
Well done.
Nathan
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The only thing I'd like to find is a "better" alternative to Airplayer for Android as while it "just works" it is missing a couple of bits:
- adjustable buffer (slightly out of sync)
- auto load on startup
Well done.
Nathan
Thanks Nathan. It was worth it. My wife lets me pipe music through the whole house now. :)
I used the AirBubble AirPlay receiver on Android and managed to get sync locked.
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WOW, this looks great. Over the years I've tried loads of things trying to get synchronised playback through the whole house and while I have had limited success it has always been a bit hit 'n' miss.
Does this stay in sync over an extended period of time of say 7 or 8 hours.
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YES. It uses the proper AirPlay Sync protocol that checks sync every second.
Even changing tracks forward or back stopping and starting. All devices stay in sync as long as they are certified speakers, certified receivers, Apple Devices gen2 or later and PCs/Macs running AirFoil.
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If you are going to be using a virtual device (I recommend VB-Audio's Hi-Fi Cable (http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/)) TuneBlade's line-in capture has been more reliable for me than having it intercept the audio being sent to a specific endpoint.
The end result should be the same, I have just found it to be less prone to interruption when there is high CPU usage on the PC. (I was unable to interrupt it, in fact)
This also gives you the option to have TuneBlade specify what the default playback device on your PC is, so you can ensure that it is not the Hi-Fi Cable device. (which would create a feedback loop)
For what it's worth, when you disable exclusive access, it does mean that you are no longer playing bit-perfect 16/44 which may or may not be an issue for you.
But that of course enables you to share the device between multiple applications, and if you are using the standby feature it prevents there being absolute silence which keeps the connection open as long as anything is playing - even if what's being played is "silence" between tracks.
The only thing I will say is that bspachman and I have both run into issues where the Airfoil Speakers app connects and says that it's receiving audio, but does not actually play anything.
That's not really been an issue for me, since most of my playback is to hardware receivers and those have all worked perfectly for me, but it is worth mentioning.
But yes, TuneBlade has been absolutely flawless for me when transmitting to actual AirPlay receiver hardware, and the standby feature finally means that I can just leave it running all the time without blocking anyone else from sending audio to the receivers, as Airfoil does.
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Great write-up! Thanks to Hilton, 6233638 & jmone for all the great pictures, words and research!
I don't think I have anything to add. I'll be experimenting with the exclusivity settings a bit today to see if I can come up with a combination that works better for me. Right now, I have everything set to allow exclusive access, but that causes problems with Airfoil Speakers on the server (for local playback).
One interesting data point that I discovered last night is that the iOS version of Airfoil speakers works fine with TuneBlade when it's running on my iPhone--but doesn't connect (either automatically or manually) to the same app running on my iPad. I'd be interested to know if anyone else is able to succeed or fail getting TuneBlade to stream to an iPad....
brad
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Thanks Nathan. It was worth it. My wife lets me pipe music through the whole house now. :)
I used the AirBubble AirPlay receiver on Android and managed to get sync locked.
Mmmm - I did not have much success with this lastime with lots of drop outs. I presume this was due to the fact AirBubble actualy states they don't support sync.
Limitations:
- Audio only, no video
- does not play in sync with other Airplay receivers
....
That said, Any particular AirBubble settings you are using to get the sync locked and I'll give it another go.
Thanks
Nathan
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Trying Airbubble again and is is pretty good with the ability to Autostart and the adjustable buffers so you can get it in sync on each device...but I still get the odd audible packet drop.
Edit: Yup as they say - it definitely does not support Airplay Sync. If I extend the players buffer to say 500ms then I don't get the drop outs but the end up out of sync. Dropping the buffer to 100ms and while they stay "better" in sync you get the little drop outs and it still ends up out of sync with the HW AirPlayer speaker (but they do stay in sync between two Airbubble devices).
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The only thing I will say is that bspachman and I have both run into issues where the Airfoil Speakers app connects and says that it's receiving audio, but does not actually play anything.
That's not really been an issue for me, since most of my playback is to hardware receivers and those have all worked perfectly for me, but it is worth mentioning.
This is exactly the issue I am experiencing. Unfortunately I don't have any hardware receivers so I am limited to using Airfoil Speakers. TuneBlade always seems to connect ok but it is very hit 'n' miss whether it actually transmits any audio. Also, if I can get it to play I am getting a lot of dropouts and losing sync.
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This is exactly the issue I am experiencing. Unfortunately I don't have any hardware receivers so I am limited to using Airfoil Speakers. TuneBlade always seems to connect ok but it is very hit 'n' miss whether it actually transmits any audio. Also, if I can get it to play I am getting a lot of dropouts and losing sync.
I'm not sure that it's TuneBlade at fault, because I have had no such issues with hardware AirPlay receivers, Shairport4w, or Reflector as AirPlay clients.
However Airfoil Speakers is the only software-based receiver available for Windows that supports sync, as far as I am aware.
I've contacted the developers about it, so hopefully it is something they can fix.
As for the constant dropouts and loss of sync, that sounds like it is either an issue related to TuneBlade's buffer size, or your network.
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I'm not sure that it's TuneBlade at fault, because I have had no such issues with hardware AirPlay receivers, Shairport4w, or Reflector as AirPlay clients.
Well I thought that initially. However, if I use the AirFoil application instead of TuneBlade to capture the audio and send it the the AirFoil Speakers devices then it all works fine. Always plays back, no dropouts and no sync issues. Unfortunately I can't find any way to set it up as a zone within MC.
As for the constant dropouts and loss of sync, that sounds like it is either an issue related to TuneBlade's buffer size, or your network.
As I said above, I don't get this issue with AirFoil and I have tried playing with TuneBleade's buffer size. Also the 3 PC's I'm testing this with are all on a wired gigabit network so there shouldn't be any network issues.
Anyway, I will persevere and if I have any success I will post here.
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Unfortunately I can't find any way to set it up as a zone within
I've setup one Zone (called Whole House) that outputs to the System Audio Driver that is then picked up by either TuneBlade or Airfoil (note: I just using the Kernel Streaming driver as I don't have to change any audio settings when swaping between TuneBlade or Airfoil)
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I've tried most of the Android based AirPlay Receivers I can find on the Play Store and can not get a reliable sync with Small, Medium, and Large buffers in Tuneblade.
Anyone found a combination that works well?
Thanks
Nathan
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I've setup one Zone (called Whole House) that outputs to the System Audio Driver that is then picked up by either TuneBlade or Airfoil (note: I just using the Kernel Streaming driver as I don't have to change any audio settings when swaping between TuneBlade or Airfoil)
Thanks jmone, I've just replicated this and it is working as a separate zone now using AirFoil. This is now starting to look very promising.
I've tried most of the Android based AirPlay Receivers I can find on the Play Store and can not get a reliable sync with Small, Medium, and Large buffers in Tuneblade.
Anyone found a combination that works well?
I've tried AirFoil Speakers on my Android tablet but I could not get it to sync at all.
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I've setup one Zone (called Whole House) that outputs to the System Audio Driver that is then picked up by either TuneBlade or Airfoil (note: I just using the Kernel Streaming driver as I don't have to change any audio settings when swaping between TuneBlade or Airfoil)
The Airfoil driver is not bit-perfect though, and will attenuate higher frequencies (http://abload.de/img/filteredxxuqd.png). (that should be a flat line (http://abload.de/img/originalomuwl.png))
Airfoil also switches the default sound device to their driver which can cause a feedback loop or transmit audio from the PC that you don't want sent to the speakers, depending on how things are set up.
It also holds onto the receivers while transmitting rather than putting the connection on standby as TuneBlade does, which means that it cannot be left active all the time and control all playback via JRemote - at least not if you have other people wanting to play to the receivers from their own devices.
And that's where TuneBlade really makes a difference for me. I no longer have to run over to the PC or switch to the Airfoil Remote app every time I want to play to my AirPlay devices. I just pick the AirPlay zone in JRemote and it works.
The only remaining issue is getting the Airfoil Speakers app to work reliably, or find an alternative to it that supports sync. But that is relatively minor for me, since most of my AirPlay playback is to hardware receivers.
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I am sort of lost.
Do I need airfoil to work with this.? Also will my airpot express show as zones like with air upnp?
An will i be able to control play to with my android gizmo app?
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From my testing "Airplayer" app for Android is the only one that does not drift out of sync (even when packets are lost etc). It is a very lightweight app with no options, so the downsides are:
- Will not load on start (you have to run it then press Play). This is OK for me
- No ability to change the name (sees to use the device name)
- No Buffer adjustment. This is the killer as the android devices all run slightly ahead of the others.
Does anyone know if you can modify the Andriod Audio buffer size, or if there is a "Tweak" app that lets you do this?
Thanks
Nathan
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I am sort of lost.
Do I need airfoil to work with this.? Also will my airpot express show as zones like with air upnp?
An will i be able to control play to with my android gizmo app?
There are two parts to Airfoil, the server and clients. If you use Tuneblade for the server you don't need Airfoil's server, and the Airfoil Client for Windows is only needed if you want to push audio to Windows PCs.
And you can then use Gizmo to control a Zone outputing Audio to Tuneblade Server that then sends the audio to all the connected Airplay Clients.
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...., since most of my AirPlay playback is to hardware receivers.
Just got another Pio Speaker (now have an A3 and an A4) and they are perfectly in sync with is setup.
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I am sort of lost.
Do I need airfoil to work with this.? Also will my airpot express show as zones like with air upnp?
An will i be able to control play to with my android gizmo app?
TuneBlade (http://www.tuneblade.com/) is an AirPlay server.
Airfoil (http://www.rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/) has AirPlay server and client applications.
AirUPnP is a discontinued application that created a DLNA device for each of your AirPlay receivers. (which doesn't work for me at all)
While DLNA may let you play to each device individually, it won't do synchronized playback. (at least not via Media Center)
Using TuneBlade as the server is what enables things like the standby mode, which releases the connection to your AirPlay receivers when you stop playback, and resumes it when you start playback again. (Airfoil doesn't do this and prevents other devices playing to the receivers)
I have a long post here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=90712.msg658873#msg658873) which goes into more detail on the benefits of using TuneBlade vs Airfoil as a server.
TuneBlade or Airfoil will show up as a single device in Media Center.
There are remote apps for both which allow you to control which of your AirPlay receivers they transmit to.
The way I use it is that I play to the AirPlay zone if I want to send audio to all receivers, or play to the local device in JRemote and forward that to one of the receivers if I only want music playing in one room.
My goal is to have everything go through JRemote without having to manage multiple apps or change anything on the server.
While TuneBlade seems like the best option to use for a server, if you are wanting to have multi-room synchronized playback that includes PC clients, the Airfoil Speakers app is the only one I am aware of which supports this.
There are other AirPlay client apps, but none of them seem to support sync.
So depending on your requirements, you may need a license for both TuneBlade and Airfoil.
But right now, some of us are having problems where playback to the Airfoil Speakers app is unreliable.
When it plays audio it works perfectly, but for me maybe 2/3 of the time I try to connect to it, it just doesn't play any audio.
Hopefully this is something that either the developers of TuneBlade or Airfoil can fix. (depending on where the fault lies)
When playing to actual AirPlay receivers, I have had no such issues. Audio and sync has worked 100% of the time for me with them.
Just got another Pio Speaker (now have an A3 and an A4) and they are perfectly in sync with is setup.
Nice. Getting all of this working just got me thinking about trying another A3 but it seems they are out of stock here now.
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Yeah they are out of stock here as well but there are a few floating around on e-bay etc. I love how they are both perfectly in sync with each other, never drift and this is both on wireless and ethernet. I'm now looking for a AirPlay capable clock radio style speaker (with DAB+ / FM) for the Kitchen and at that point I may not need the Andriod Tablet soln.
I still find sometimes with Tuneblade you have to stop/start a device to get any output. Just had this with my A3, it all appeared to be connected an streaming but no sound.
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If you find an airplay speaker, radio with DAB let me know. The one im using in the video ontop of my microwave has just about everything but Airplay(lightening dock, line in, DAB, Clock, Alarm), which is why I have the airport express and my old iPhone on it. If there was an iPhone App that worked with TuneBlade I would use that instead of the airport express. Unfortunately the AirFoil iPhone app doesn't work with TuneBlade.
I've started working on the design for my own airplay speaker. There's a DAB kit out there for the Pi. ;)
http://www.monkeyboard.org/tutorials/78-interfacing/87-raspberry-pi-linux-dab-fm-digital-radio
I also use this app call BCR (Best Clock Radio) from the Apple App store which has weather, time, and streaming radio presets.
This app is whats on my kitchen iPhone by default when It's not being used for JRemote.
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I can not find a combo of Radio (DAB+) and Airplay in a decent form factor either.... They are all either missing a feature or are a full blown AVR. So I've just ordered a Pio A1 (to go with my A3 and the A4 that arrived today) and plan to buy a small FM/DAB+ Radio and plug it into the Aux Port for the Kitchen. The idea is that my wife just needs to power up the A1 to listen to the one radio station she likes and this will work with the little RC that comes with it...and for me, during "Whole House" audio mode it will then by in sync with the other Pio and the big outside system you saw.
I should also mention that using MC's Tools --> Options --> Video --> Advanced --> A/V sync correction I've got video playback delayed so the I have AV sync working on the PJ with sound coming out of all the speakers for when we setup the PJ outside for parties etc.
Also - One nice feature of the PIO's is that if you have set "fast power up", Tune Blade will wake them up as soon as you push music to them as they are really in standby and still visible in TuneBlade. The reverse is that if you power them up at the device then TuneBlade does nothing as their status has not changed and this will work for me as it will then pickup the Radio from the Aux....I "think" anyway!
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...for now I'm using an old phone with an FM receiver and it is working and sounds great. Power up the A3 and you get the FM radio from the Aux automatically but can then override it by pushing over Airplay. When you stop Airplay it goes back to the Aux. Nice.
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...for now I'm using an old phone with an FM receiver and it is working and sounds great. Power up the A3 and you get the FM radio from the Aux automatically but can then override it by pushing over Airplay. When you stop Airplay it goes back to the Aux. Nice.
Been a while since I looked around. The piccolo from Denon is actually pretty darn close. (oops no DAB)
http://www.ipodrepublic.com/denon-ceol-piccolo-airplay-network-music-system/
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The Airfoil driver is not bit-perfect though, and will attenuate higher frequencies (http://abload.de/img/filteredxxuqd.png). (that should be a flat line (http://abload.de/img/originalomuwl.png))
Airfoil also switches the default sound device to their driver which can cause a feedback loop or transmit audio from the PC that you don't want sent to the speakers, depending on how things are set up.
It also holds onto the receivers while transmitting rather than putting the connection on standby as TuneBlade does, which means that it cannot be left active all the time and control all playback via JRemote - at least not if you have other people wanting to play to the receivers from their own devices.
And that's where TuneBlade really makes a difference for me. I no longer have to run over to the PC or switch to the Airfoil Remote app every time I want to play to my AirPlay devices. I just pick the AirPlay zone in JRemote and it works.
The only remaining issue is getting the Airfoil Speakers app to work reliably, or find an alternative to it that supports sync. But that is relatively minor for me, since most of my AirPlay playback is to hardware receivers.
The issue for me is that I cannot get TuneBlade to work reliably and with no (or even few) dropouts. It's probably not an issue with TuneBlade itself but trying to stream to AirFoil Speakers that is causing the issue.
I have found this http://www.lightweightdream.com/sp4w/shairport4w/?lang=en which is an open sourse AirPlay software client which I am going to test and see if it keeps sync and plays from TuneBlade more reliably for me.
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I have been testing Shairport4w in place of AirFoil Speakers in conjunction with TuneBlade and it is working absolutely fine. There have been no connection issues or problems with connecting but no audio and it is always in sync. I've now been listening to a BBC Radio stream from MC through TuneBlade to two Shairport4w clients for over an hour and it has been in perfect sync all the time and there have not been any dropouts or stutters.
This is looking much more promising.
Shairport4w can be found here: http://www.lightweightdream.com/sp4w/shairport4w/?lang=en
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I have been testing Shairport4w in place of AirFoil Speakers in conjunction with TuneBlade and it is working absolutely fine. There have been no connection issues or problems with connecting but no audio and it is always in sync. I've now been listening to a BBC Radio stream from MC through TuneBlade to two Shairport4w clients for over an hour and it has been in perfect sync all the time and there have not been any dropouts or stutters.
Shairport4w doesn't support AirPlay's sync features at all.
It may happen to be in sync when you start playback, depending on what you're playing to, but it does not adjust for drift or different device latencies.
I can not find a combo of Radio (DAB+) and Airplay in a decent form factor either.
Right now I'm just looking for another battery-powered Airplay speaker that sounds decent and is water resistant like the Pioneer was.
The issue with buying second-hand for me is that the first Pio A3 I bought had a WiFi range of about 5ft. At least when I was buying new, I was able to return it.
Second-hand prices are actually more than I originally paid for it now.
Also - One nice feature of the PIO's is that if you have set "fast power up", Tune Blade will wake them up as soon as you push music to them as they are really in standby and still visible in TuneBlade. The reverse is that if you power them up at the device then TuneBlade does nothing as their status has not changed and this will work for me as it will then pickup the Radio from the Aux....I "think" anyway!
TuneBlade also has a feature that will automatically connect it to any new clients that it finds. So even if your device does not have a standby mode which keeps the device listed, you should still be able to just switch it on and have music play.
I still find sometimes with Tuneblade you have to stop/start a device to get any output. Just had this with my A3, it all appeared to be connected an streaming but no sound.
I had this with my AirPort Express v1 until I determined that the buffer size must be in the range of 350-3000ms. At other buffer sizes it would sometimes play, but not reliably.
While I'd prefer not to have the latency, I do wonder if it would be best to stick to the "standard" 2000ms. (though this did not fix my problems with Airfoil Speakers)
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Shairport4w doesn't support AirPlay's sync features at all.
It may happen to be in sync when you start playback, depending on what you're playing to, but it does not adjust for drift or different device latencies.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that. It's back to the drawing board then it would seem.
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I don't mean to take things off-topic here, but if anyone is looking for battery-powered AirPlay speakers, it seems that Bang & Olufsen recently replaced the Beolit 12 with the Beolit 15.
The Beolit 12 used Airplay while the new Beolit 15 uses Bluetooth 4.0
B&O products normally retain their full price, but since it's a discontinued model, I've been able to find these for about 60% off right now.
This doesn't make them cheap, but puts it into the price range that I'd be willing to pay for a battery-powered AirPlay speaker.
Unfortunately I've yet to find the white light gray model at this much of a discount.
Edit: Apparently the battery life is only rated as 4 hours for these when using AirPlay. Hardly compares to the new model's 24. :-\
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The Beolit 12 used Airplay while the new Beolit 15 uses Bluetooth 4.0
I also went to the Apple Store recently in my Turtle Neck to hang out a bit. Anyway, the actual number of Airplay enabled devices on offer was surprisingly small and when questioning the Genius I was told that more and more are dropping airplay in favour of Bluetooth in their latest models.
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It seems that Bluetooth uses significantly less power than AirPlay, and it's certainly more convenient to use if you're just playing music from a mobile device to a single speaker.
It's a shame that Apple doesn't support AptX or that there isn't a way to send lossless audio over Bluetooth though. And of course it doesn't support things like multi-room sync, which is really the only reason that I'm looking at AirPlay devices at all.
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If you find an airplay speaker, radio with DAB let me know.
The LG CM3430W (http://www.lg.com/au/home-audio/lg-CM3430W) (FM not DAB) may work for you but it is too big for my space.
The SoundTouch 20 Series II (http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/wifi_music_systems/soundtouch_music/soundtouch_20/index.jsp) was another potential as I think it would just about fit and you can program a button to a particular streaming web site. It is expensive however and I'm not that keen on the quality of some of the streaming radio stations
EDIT : I went for the Cord ezi-dab (http://www.cord-av.com/ezidab/tabid/97/Default.aspx) It adds DAB+/FM & Clock Radio function via the Pio's Line In. There is also a version with BT as well.
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FYI - As another option (but I've not tried) that you could do away with Tune Blade all together and use one of the iOS / Android based Airplay streamers to push the audio from your phone/tablet to all the Airplay devices (eg the Phone/Tablet becomes the server and player).
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FYI - As another option (but I've not tried) that you could do away with Tune Blade all together and use one of the iOS / Android based Airplay streamers to push the audio from your phone/tablet to all the Airplay devices (eg the Phone/Tablet becomes the server and player).
I think it depends on what your goals are.
Aside from the fact that there seem to be issues using the Airfoil Speakers app with TuneBlade right now (and I'm in contact with Rogue Amoeba about this) here is how my setup currently works:
TuneBlade is configured to capture from the HiFi Cable audio device (which is configured as a zone in Media Center) and automatically transmits that audio to any AirPlay receivers that it finds.
This way I don't have to do any management at all to have whole-house audio playing.
If someone brings over an extra AirPlay speaker for a party (as one example) or one of the receivers has to be reset for whatever reason, TuneBlade just automatically finds it and starts sending audio to it.
So the AirPlay zone in Media Center is only used for "whole-house" audio, it requires zero configuration to work, can be controlled 100% through Media Center on a PC or JRemote on a phone, and the audio stream is not reliant on a mobile device.
The AirPlay receivers are connected to other speaker systems, so we just switch them on/off depending on whether we want to hear music in that room, and control volume locally.
I've found that this is the most seamless approach to whole-house audio, since using the TuneBlade/Airfoil apps to switch receivers on/off or control volume makes things more complicated than they need to be.
If I want to play to a specific receiver, I will play audio locally in JRemote on my phone and use it to "forward" that audio to a specific device. (since iOS supports that as a system-wide feature)
Perhaps it's different on Android but on iOS you can only forward audio to a single receiver, not a group of them, so it cannot replace the TuneBlade/Airfoil servers on the PC - not that I would want to, because then you would be reliant on the battery life of the device, and audio is being sent to the phone wirelessly, then forwarded to the receivers. (again, wirelessly)
I can see that with AirPlay-enabled AVRs or AirPlay speakers, this may not be the ideal solution, since those devices may automatically switch inputs or come out of standby, in which case you would have to manually configure your active AirPlay receivers in TuneBlade/Airfoil.
Or I can see situations where you may want to transmit audio from the PC to some of the rooms, but have someone else playing their own music in another room (e.g. the kids have an AirPlay speaker in their bedroom) but having TuneBlade automatically transmit to all receivers it finds hasn't been an issue for me thus far.
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I agree. My preference would be to used all wired connections where possible anyway due to drop outs etc.
That said their are 3rd party apps for both iOS and Android that lets you output to more than 1 Airplay Speaker. I've done some quick tests using "Air Audio" on Android and it certainly works fine taking the stream from EOS/Gizmo on the Tablet/Phone and pushing it out (in sync without drift) to all end devices (HW and other tablets). The interesting thing about this app is it also has configurable addition delay on a per channel basis so I can adjust for the early playing "Airplayer" app on Andriod as it does not have a buffer to bring them all perfectly into (and then stay) in sync. As you say however I now need stable always transmitting WiFi FROM the tablet/phone running EOS/Gizmo + "Air Audio" as well as TO the other devices so this is certainly not for everyone. When using TuneBlade of course the PC is always on on you are just using EOS/Gizmo to control that.
Thanks
Nathan
PS - the other interesting thing with "Air Audio" it will also push audio to DLNA, Chomecast, Roku, and SONOS at the same time as well as Airplay (none of this I've tested).
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Picked up a Sony SRS-X7 Speaker this afternoon. It's discontinued and was too good a deal to pass. Normally $400 got it for $280 with extended 3 year replacement warranty.
It does AirPlay, DLNA, BT with AAC and aptX, NFC Pairing and has an iPhone App. (songpal)
Has Wifi, LAN Port, Stereo Mini input, rechargeable battery (6hrs), USB for powering devices and 32W S-Master Amp.
It's heavy for a little speaker and packs a big punch! I'll do some more testing with MC, DLNA and TuneBlade and report back.
So far it works as DLNA zone in MC fine.
My Pi 2 is still on its way from RS components.
Wow it has way more low end punch than I was expecting. AirPlay works in sync. Interesting it has a latency of 92ms on its own like the ATV3 does, when I enable the other AirPlay devices the TuneBlade auto latency jumps back to 250ms.
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Nice! I was going to get the N7 but found Pio is running out their range around A$150.
You know the next will be mirroring the video right 8)
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Just realised the sony also works with Spotify connect and Pandora. Nice.
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The X7 also supports gapless playback! That was a surprise.
DMR Report (by Whitebear) for SRS-X7
====================================
Device Description Url=http://10.1.1.26:8080/description.xml
Description=PERSONAL AUDIO SYSTEM
Friendly Name=SONY:SRS-X7
Manufacturer Name=Sony Corporation
Manufacturer Url=http://www.sony.net/
Model Name=SRS-X7
Model Number=JB3.2
Presentation Url=http://10.1.1.26
UPnP Device Type=urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaRenderer:1
UPnP Media Renderer version=1
Unique Device Name=uuid:5f9ec1b3-ed59-1900-4530-d8d43c8f450a
X_DLNADOC Element=DMR-1.50
Service Url for RenderingControl=http://10.1.1.26:8080/RenderingControl/desc.xml
Service Url for ConnectionManager=http://10.1.1.26:8080/ConnectionManager/desc.xml
Service Url for AVTransport=http://10.1.1.26:8080/AVTransport/desc.xml
AVT:SetNextAVTransportURI (gapless play)=Supported
AVT:SyncPlay (synchronous play)=Feature not available on this DMR version
RC:GetVolume action=Supported
RC:SetVolume action=Supported
HTTP User Agent (client)=WinampMPEG/2.8
Play test file result=Play success => Start Ok / Stop Ok
Media Center DLNA Server Advanced Settings
==========================================
DLNA=Checked
DLNAExtra=Checked
Enable bitrate Field=Checked
Filter international characters=no
Include session Id=no
Playstation 3 compatible=no
Present Caption Resources=Checked
Present Small Artwork=no
Present Subtitle Resources=Checked
Skip child count=no
Use flat URLs=no
Use full URLs instead of relative URLs=no
WMC compatible=no
MPEG video mimetvpe override=tbd / per track setting
Video MimeType Override=tbd / per track setting
Video DLNA Override=tbd / per track setting
Declared Supported Audio, Image & Video Formats
===============================================
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=11025;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=11025;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=12000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=12000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=22050;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=22050;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=24000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=24000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=32000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=32000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM_low;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS_320;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_320;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_320;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAAC_L2_ADTS;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAAC_L2_ISO;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAAC_L2_ADTS_320;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAAC_L2_ISO_320;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_320;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_320;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS_192;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_192;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_128;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAACv2_L2_128;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=HEAAC_L2_ISO_128;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL;DLNA.ORG_FLAGS=9D300000000000000000000000000000
http-get:*:audio/m4a:*
http-get:*:audio/wav:*
http-get:*:audio/x-m4a:*
http-get:*:audio/x-wav:*
http-get:*:audio/flac:*
http-get:*:audio/x-flac:*
http-get:*:audio/aiff:*
http-get:*:audio/x-aiff:*
http-get:*:audio/aif:*
http-get:*:audio/x-aif:*
http-get:*:audio/x-alac:*
http-get:*:audio/dsf:*
http-get:*:audio/diff:*
http-get:*:audio/dsd:*
http-get:*:audio/x-dsd:*
sony.com:5f9ec1b3-ed59-1900-4530-d8d43c8f450a:audio:localRender
Evaluated Supported Audio Formats
=================================
audio/L16 LPCM Dlna 44100 1 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM Dlna 44100 2 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM Dlna 48000 1 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM Dlna 48000 2 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 11025 1 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 11025 2 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 12000 1 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 12000 2 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 22050 1 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 22050 2 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 24000 1 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 24000 2 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 32000 1 16 Yes
audio/L16 LPCM_low Dlna 32000 2 16 Yes
audio/mpeg MP3 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts AAC_ADTS Dlna * 2 * No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts AAC_ADTS_320 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 AAC_ISO Dlna * 2 * No
audio/3gpp AAC_ISO Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 AAC_ISO_320 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/3gpp AAC_ISO_320 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts HEAAC_L2_ADTS Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 HEAAC_L2_ISO Dlna * 2 * No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts HEAAC_L2_ADTS_320 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 HEAAC_L2_ISO_320 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 HEAACv2_L2 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts HEAACv2_L2 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 HEAACv2_L2_320 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts HEAACv2_L2_320 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts AAC_ADTS_192 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 AAC_ISO_192 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 HEAACv2_L2_128 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/vnd.dlna.adts HEAACv2_L2_128 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/mp4 HEAAC_L2_ISO_128 Dlna * 2 * No
audio/x-ms-wma WMABASE Dlna * 2 * No
audio/x-ms-wma WMAFULL Dlna * 2 * No
audio/m4a AAC_ISO Fuzzy * 2 * No
audio/wav WAV Fuzzy * * * Yes
audio/x-m4a AAC_ISO Fuzzy * 2 * No
audio/x-wav WAV Fuzzy * * * Yes
audio/flac FLAC Fuzzy * * * Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Fuzzy * * * Yes
audio/aiff AIFF Fuzzy * * * Yes
audio/x-aiff AIFF Fuzzy * * * Yes
audio/aif Undefined
audio/x-aif Undefined
audio/x-alac Undefined
audio/dsf Undefined
audio/diff Undefined
audio/dsd Undefined
audio/x-dsd Undefined
And the reset of the DMR test suite. Plays most things which is great and upto 2ch 24/192 in most formats.
audio/aiff AIFF Tested 44100 2 16 Yes
audio/aiff AIFF Tested 48000 2 16 Yes
audio/aiff AIFF Tested 96000 2 16 Yes
audio/aiff AIFF Tested 192000 2 16 Yes
audio/aiff AIFF Tested 44100 2 24 Yes
audio/aiff AIFF Tested 48000 2 24 Yes
audio/aiff AIFF Tested 96000 2 24 Yes
audio/aiff AIFF Tested 192000 2 24 Yes
audio/m4a AAC_ISO Tested 44100 2 16 No
audio/m4a AAC_ISO Tested 48000 2 16 No
audio/m4a AAC_ISO Tested 96000 2 16 No
audio/m4a AAC_ISO Tested 44100 2 24 No
audio/m4a AAC_ISO Tested 48000 2 24 No
audio/m4a AAC_ISO Tested 96000 2 24 No
audio/wav WAV Tested 44100 2 16 Yes
audio/wav WAV Tested 48000 2 16 Yes
audio/wav WAV Tested 96000 2 16 Yes
audio/wav WAV Tested 192000 2 16 Yes
audio/wav WAV Tested 44100 2 24 Yes
audio/wav WAV Tested 48000 2 24 Yes
audio/wav WAV Tested 96000 2 24 Yes
audio/wav WAV Tested 192000 2 24 Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Tested 44100 2 16 Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Tested 48000 2 16 Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Tested 96000 2 16 Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Tested 192000 2 16 Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Tested 44100 2 24 Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Tested 48000 2 24 Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Tested 96000 2 24 Yes
audio/x-flac FLAC Tested 192000 2 24 Yes
-
Picked up a Sony SRS-X7 Speaker this afternoon. It's discontinued and was too good a deal to pass. Normally $400 got it for $280 with extended 3 year replacement warranty.
I have two of those and I really like them. They have a tendency to "walk" across a table. I've found mine on the floor once or twice.
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I have two of those and I really like them. They have a tendency to "walk" across a table. I've found mine on the floor once or twice.
Old rubbery mousepads are your friend, and may improve the sound a little too (at least at the resonant frequency) ;D
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Now that there is a good solution for using AirPlay with Media Center, I would certainly consider the X7 again.
I bought a pair of them a while back but ended up returning them because trying to get synchronized playback via DLNA was just useless, and there was no convenient solution for AirPlay at the time.
They were exactly the right size to fit in one of the locations that I want a wireless speaker though, and unlike most portable speaker designs these days they radiate all sound forward which I prefer.
That said, they don't seem to have been discontinued in this region and are selling at the same price I paid a year or so ago - and I thought they were quite overpriced at the time.
The bigger issue for me is that, like just about every other battery-powered AirPlay speaker, they don't even last 4 hours when running off a battery.
While I don't plan on using the speakers for 4 hours at a time, they would be used sparsely throughout the week and ideally I'd only have to charge them once.
I don't know why it is that we now have Bluetooth speakers coming out with 12-24 hours playback time, while DLNA/AirPlay are all <4 hours. (with the X7 being 3)
It can't be the audio electronics, since you often get 12-24 hours in the Bluetooth versions of the same speaker (or at least double that of AirPlay) but we have phones using WiFi with smaller batteries, which last considerably longer while doing more complex tasks.
Is it something stupid like Apple only ever releasing one version of hardware AirPlay receiver that OEMs can use, which is a power-hog compared to modern WiFi/Bluetooth chipsets?
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While we are talking speakers, I had been holding out for the Axiom (https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php/topics/407117/Re_Designing_The_Axiom_Airplay#Post407117) but it's gestation is longer than that of an Elephant.
Apart from being 75watt powered speakers with the usual protocol support (and up to 192k/24 bit audio fro its DAC) was the ability to select the speaker to be Left, Right, or Both Channels with the flick of a switch.
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While we are talking speakers, I had been holding out for the Axiom (https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php/topics/407117/Re_Designing_The_Axiom_Airplay#Post407117) but it's gestation is longer than that of an Elephant.
Apart from being 75watt powered speakers with the usual protocol support (and up to 192k/24 bit audio fro its DAC) was the ability to select the speaker to be Left, Right, or Both Channels with the flick of a switch.
Yes I saw you lurking in the forums over there in some of my research! :)
I think with a Pi in each speaker with an AMP module I can replicate this pretty quickly using shairport-sync AirPlay and a three pole switch to flick between stereo, left or right.
I'll order another Pi to try. The first one should arrive tomorrow so I can start playing over the weekend.
My evil plan..
Create a powered speaker with:
For Phase 1
MC on Pi
Shairport-sync on Pi
Spotify connect on Pi
Bluetooth on Pi
High quality DAC on Pi
Add Amp module
Add mains power
Add an internal rechargeable battery
Create a stereo wireless pair with 3 pole switches
Get all that working in a prototype with some spare speakers I have.
Phase 2
Possibilities yet to be explored..
Add a basic display for track info, source playing etc
Add playback controls to the speaker
Enable BT remote control
Try and enable loopback to use MC DSPs.
Phase 3
Combine the working parts into my own speaker design
Sell the design to Jim :)
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The Axiom soln for L/R/Stereo is so easy I'm surprised it does not appear on all Airplay/DLNA etc speakers. So simple.
I see the Pi has not only an option for a DAC but it also has one that include a 2x25w Speaker Output (https://www.hifiberry.com/ampplus/) that looks like it should be "OK" for low powered applications.
Another build option I was toying with was:
- Plate amp to mount flush on the back and
- Mount a Tablet for connectivity, local control and Audio Out to the amp.
-
Phase 3
Combine the working parts into my own speaker design
Sell the design to Jim :)
You know you will be competing with Matt when it comes to speaker builds (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=66879.0)!
-
Split my speaker build off here - Ghetto Wireless Speaker Build (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=95914.0)
-
For anyone that is trying to use this with video, I definitely still recommend the Airfoil Speakers client, even though it is not completely reliable with TuneBlade.
I've been doing more latency testing, and Airfoil manages to keep essentially identical sync every time you connect, and it doesn't seem to drift. (at least not over the course of 40 minutes or so)
The best I was able to get Shairport4w to, was either +33ms or -33ms from the target when using a buffer size of 73/74 frames with TuneBlade at 350ms, and this was somewhat variable.
AFS was generally within ±1ms every time I connected.
If it helps anyone get video set up in the right ballpark, from my testing the latency of each component seems to be:
Airfoil Speakers: 350ms
TuneBlade: Pretty much spot-on to whatever you specify. (350ms in my case)
Media Center + Hi-Fi Cable (25ms WASAPI buffer size): about 50ms EDIT: About 20-25ms of that seems to be VST plug-ins that I'm using.
My total correction was -770ms for exact sync, and while I don't have concrete information on my display, it should be about 20ms, which is where I got the 50ms for MC+HiFi Cable.
So those numbers may not be exact, and unless you can find a review with tests for your specific display, you'll have to guess how much latency it has (probably in the region of 20-150ms, on the higher end of things if you use interpolation) but it should hopefully be a good starting point.
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TuneBlade have released their own AirPlay WINDOWS client. It worked straight up first go. Seems to work well so far! (with TuneBlade so far)
http://tuneaero.com/
Hi!
We thought you might be interested in our new AirPlay audio player application which is now available in beta: http://tuneaero.com/
TuneAero supports synchronization, so AirPort Express, Apple TV and other Apple approved speakers and receivers will be in sync.
It's too early, and we'll be adding more features, tweaks and bug fixes in coming days. We would really appreciate your feedback.
Thanks,
The TuneBlade Team
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Ah you beat me to it.
I've been in contact with the devs regarding compatibility with AirFoil, and they mentioned that this was in development.
I just received an email from them saying that they had a beta version ready. ;D
Hopefully this can replace AirFoil since it also supports sync.
-
Can't wait to try it out.... but I'm travelling for the next month. Now if they would also do an Android version as I'm yet to find a good one.
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Hilton et al:
Can this solution be used in the following ways?:
1) using the Tidal iPad app to play through MC's engine on a PC? No processing done by the iPad - it just acts as an airplay conduit to a dedicated audio PC. The iPad has Airplay built in, of course.
2) Using the Tidal app on a Windows tablet instead of the iPad above. Still playing on the audio PC. In this case, the Windows tablet will need to be the AirPlay "transmitter" and the instance of MC on the Audio PC the AirPlay "receiver".
I will go through this whole thread tomorrow to see if the questions may already have been answered! My goal is to get Tidal to play on audiophile PCs connected to very high end DACs via the WDM or MC's nascent engine, while using a handheld tablet to select the music, and NOT using any form of remote desktop. I DON'T need to sync playback between devices, but I do need lossless playback of Tidal's hifi flac files. Would I be better off with a DLNA solution?
-
Hilton et al:
Can this solution be used in the following ways?:
1) using the Tidal iPad app to play through MC's engine on a PC? No processing done by the iPad - it just acts as an airplay conduit to a dedicated audio PC. The iPad has Airplay built in, of course.
2) Using the Tidal app on a Windows tablet instead of the iPad above. Still playing on the audio PC. In this case, the Windows tablet will need to be the AirPlay "transmitter" and the instance of MC on the Audio PC the AirPlay "receiver".
I will go through this whole thread tomorrow to see if the questions may already have been answered! My goal is to get Tidal to play on audiophile PCs connected to very high end DACs via the WDM or MC's nascent engine, while using a handheld tablet to select the music, and NOT using any form of remote desktop. I DON'T need to sync playback between devices, but I do need lossless playback of Tidal's hifi flac files. Would I be better off with a DLNA solution?
If I understand you correctly:
For
1) You won't need tuneblade, just use the iPad to send to an AirPlay client on the PC with the DAC and use MC WDM to the DAC. This will down-sample everything to 44/16bit though because ipad/iPhone airplay doesn't send raw uncompressed streams.
2) You need tuneblade on the tablet to transmit AirPlay to the receiving PC with an Airplay client using MC WDM to DAC. This may end up with higher bit rate and sample rates being sent but it's not confirmed. In my testing it appeared that the Tuneblade server did indeed send 96/24 and it may also do 192/24. Anecdotal evidence on the net suggests that if BOTH the AirPlay server and client support 192/24bit ALAC then the airplay protocol is capable of transmitting it. (possibly FLAC and other formats too providing the server and client can encode/decode - I believe both AirFoil and TuneBlade/TuneAero do support FLAC)
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Thanks! I started reading the thread from the start, and it seems you've come a long way since you posted the prototype on the Beta board! I will try this out when my tablet arrives. I guess I need to get an AirPlay client asap. I hope I can get this to work - it's not for me, but for my clients. I will be implementing the whole shebang with the goal of syncing throughout my zones.
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Can this solution be used in the following ways?:
1) using the Tidal iPad app to play through MC's engine on a PC? No processing done by the iPad - it just acts as an airplay conduit to a dedicated audio PC. The iPad has Airplay built in, of course.
iPad AirPlay output → TuneAero Receiver → MC WDM Driver
2) Using the Tidal app on a Windows tablet instead of the iPad above. Still playing on the audio PC. In this case, the Windows tablet will need to be the AirPlay "transmitter" and the instance of MC on the Audio PC the AirPlay "receiver".
- Tidal App → HiFi Cable → TuneBlade Server
- AirPlay → TuneAero Receiver → WDM Driver
I will go through this whole thread tomorrow to see if the questions may already have been answered! My goal is to get Tidal to play on audiophile PCs connected to very high end DACs via the WDM or MC's nascent engine, while using a handheld tablet to select the music, and NOT using any form of remote desktop. I DON'T need to sync playback between devices, but I do need lossless playback of Tidal's hifi flac files. Would I be better off with a DLNA solution?
Though you don't need sync, using TuneBlade Server to serve audio to AirPlay clients, and using clients which support sync such as licensed hardware or the TuneAero/AirFoil/ShairportSync software-based receivers should give you synced multi-room audio.
The only thing is that you can't adjust the sync on a per-client basis (yet?) so you can't account for say a device which has an additional 20ms latency. (like my TV speakers)
AirPlay does lossless 16/44. I'm not sure that higher formats are supported for music playback.
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Thanks to you too for that, 623*****. I hope the Tidal Flac is not limited by AirPlay's apparent 44/16 specs.
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Thanks to you too for that, 623*****. I hope the Tidal Flac is not limited by AirPlay's apparent 44/16 specs.
I think they're only streaming 16/44?
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Just wanted to say thanks again. I have this working in both scenarios - from an iPad and from a Windows Tablet. I have enabled WDM, but not made it the Windows default device.
Tune Aero uses the WDM, as does the PC app for Tidal if playing directly on the HTPC.
The iPad was trivial, but TuneBlade had its issues for some time, causing all sorts of drop-outs and needing a router reboot too frequently. Then it just settled down by itself.
This thread should be a sticky!
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Just did a Win10 Clean Install and now TuneBlade is doing something odd. I have reset it up from memory so it could be PEBCAK
- When I play content from MC, TuneBlade shows all devices as "Connected" and the Monitor shows Streaming Correctly
- When Stop playing content from MC, TuneBalde shows all the devices cycling between "Connected" and "Buffering", and in the Monitor it cycles between "Connected" and "Connecting" and shows stuff getting streamed even though nothing is being send or heard.
I've tried in
- MC different Audio Outputs / closing MC
- TuneAero different endpoints (HW Audio & VB-Cable)
- Win Audio different configs
It's like Silence is being sent every second and hence Streaming is toggling On/Off
I'll cross post over at the TuneBlade Forum as well
Thanks
Nathan
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All fixed in new version to come!
Hi Nathan,
Thanks for reporting this issue.
We've fixed this in the upcoming release:
http://tuneblade.com/Tuneblade_Installer_1_3_4_0.exe
Please try and let us know.
(The problem happens in earlier version if capturing is being done on a different playback endpoint other than the current system default.)
Thanks,
The TuneBlade Team
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Couple of New Releases:
TuneBlade :http://tuneblade.com/Tuneblade_Installer_1_4_0_0.exe It's not on their main web page but was in their forum. Has some Win10 fixes if you have having issues
TuneAero (http://tuneaero.com/) : If you have not noticed, they have their own Windows Airplay Client to pump Airplay streams to Windows Audio Devices, you can use this to do stuff like:
- Play from an iOS to Media Center (using the MC WDM Driver)
- Play from an iOS devices to the Windows Sound Driver that TuneBlade is using. Eg this lets you play from one iOS device --> TuneAero --> TuneBlade --> All connected Airplay receivers
- Play from an iOS devices to any other Windows Sound Driver
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I had a play with Android Airplay receivers again. I'm not sure if it the recent updates to TuneAero or AirReceiver (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.softmedia.receiver&hl=en) and while not perfect it is much better than before!
For each different make/model of Android device, I had to manually tweak the buffer setting in AirReceiver to get them in sync initially but after that they just worked, including turning them on and off, coming in and out of WiFi range etc (note: when coming in and out of range it may start out of sync but quickly synced back up). TuneBlade Monitor also showed pretty solid stats with few issues, and nothing huge or anything that I noticed audibly. This was with 1 x Apple Airplay (wired), 3 x Pio Airplay Speakers (one wireless and two wired) and a couple of different Android devices.
I then started adding more Android Devices getting to 6 (total of 10 Airplay Devices) but started to hear issues with sync, dropouts etc (Wifi issues maybe?)
So the combination of TuneBlade and AirReceiver (which also appears as DLNA renderers in MC) is a step forward but I'm looking forward to a more hassle free experience when TuneBlade release an Android Client!
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FYI - The TuneBlade devs have updated TuneAero to support multiple Airplay Receiver endpoints on a single Windows PC. As an example the attached pic shows two TuneAero "Airplay Receivers" running on my PC from an iPhone (and how it looks in TuneAero and MC):
- JRiver Media Center (via the WDM driver)
- Whole House (which is the TuneBlade server connected to all available Airplay Receivers)
So you can now expose all your Windows Audio devices as an Airplay Receiver endpoint.
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...and another thing that the TuneBlade devs pointed out is you can select in TuneAero multiple Audio Devices per AirPlay receiver. (eg in my above example I could Have my JRiver Media Center Airplay Receiver output both to the MC WDM driver and any other/all of the exposed Audio Devices).
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Hilton, thank you for this thread. I've been running a Tuneblade house audio system for about a year now, I've got an Apple Airport, a two TuneAero PCs, and a RPi all playing music in sync.
It's just awesome.
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TuneBlade update :)
[New Feature] Option to specify any additional delay (upto 500 ms) caused by a DSP or DAC in the receiver output audio chain causing the receiver to be out of sync from the rest of the receivers. TuneBlade will schedule the samples to play early by the configured milliseconds and causing the final output of the receiver to be in sync with other receivers.
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I tried to get this working early last year to get whole house synchronised music but had limited success mainly because at the time I didn't have any hardware Airplay receivers and was relying on AirFoil Speakers software. As my results were less than successful I abandoned it.
However I do now have some hardware Airplay receivers, 2 Pioneer SMA3 WiFi speakers and a Denon AVR and because I have been dissapointed with DLNA in the Pioneers I have now revisited this setup and all I can say is WOW. I am now playing music from MC21 via Tuneblade to all three devices with perfect sync. The only problem now is controlling Tuneblade to switch the devices on or off as my MC server is running headless in another room. It would be nice if a plugin existed for MC to use the Tuneblade API so that all the control could be accomplished from within MC as Nathan has been championing since late last year.
On another note, I have spoken with Tuneblade support regarding the Tuneblade remote control app for ios and asked if there was any possibility of an Android version. They confirmed that this had been requested many times and is high on the to do list and that hopefully in a few months we will have an Android remote app. So at least I will be able to have an app running alongside JRemote to control which Airplay receivers the music is sent to.
I would like to thank Hilton for the excellent guides to set this up and also jmone for all his efforts in attempting to get this integrated with MC.
Well done guys.
Russell
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The plug is concept is still alive! In my recent conversations with the TuneBlade devs regarding MC Integration and an Andriod Renderer/Control point.
Please stay tuned, It's just a matter of some more time when we're able to deliver the Android apps and JRiver MC integration.
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...as we wait to see if closer integration is possible, I've solved one issue I had as an Android User in that there is no TuneBlade remote control outside iOS.
So I wrote a simple HTML/Javascript Based Tuneblade controller for their API (http://tuneblade.com/Developer/TuneBlade%20Remote%20API%20v0.7.pdf) and integrated it into WebGizmo (see pics). It is pretty basic in that it will:
- List all the Airplay devices
- Connect / Disconnect them
- Adjust their individual vol.
In the zip file you will find:
- TuneBlade.html (new file with the code)
- library.html (will replace your existing library.html file, only difference between the two is it has a link to the TuneBlade page so you can navigate to it from the WebGizmo UI).
- images folder with some additional button pngs.
Install: Just extract all the files into your "WebGizmo" folder, which for me is located in "C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 22\Data\Panel\Gizmo\Default". You may need admin permissions to do this, and keep a copy of your old "library.html" file if you want to undo it.
One thing I can not work out how to do in is how to use the Tuneblade "Zero-Conf Discovery" from HTML/Javascript so for now you will need to manually edit the IP address and Port in the "tuneblade.html" page yourself;
<script>
var TuneBladeURL = "http://192.168.xxx.xxx:51497"
</script>
Works well for me (tested on Chrome Desktop and Android).
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Hilton,
Great thread! I have just discovered some of the awesome features of JMC and I have been trying to get my audio in sync. I have this working on my setup thanks to this thread. However, the volume on the airplay receivers are very low compared to playing directly to one of the them from MC. I was wondering if I missed something in the setup and looking at your 2nd, 3rd and 4th post in this thread, the screenshots are no longer visible. Can you repost those screenshots?
Thank you,
Jason
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Hi Jason, There are a few places for VOL to check:
- In MC itself (it will output a vol level to Tune Blade)
- In TuneBlade (both for each speaker and also the Master at the bottom of the popup)
- On the Speakers (some have their own physical vol control)
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Hi Jason, There are a few places for VOL to check:
- In MC itself (it will output a vol level to Tune Blade)
- In TuneBlade (both for each speaker and also the Master at the bottom of the popup)
- On the Speakers (some have their own physical vol control)
Hi jmone,
Thank you for the quick reply. It was the volume sliders in Tuneblade. Not sure how I missed that.
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Fixed missing images. Damn Microsoft is expiring onedrive shares.. pics moved to Flickr
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Fixed missing images. Damn Microsoft is expiring onedrive shares.. pics moved to Flickr
Thank you!
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After searching on and off for a while for how to make my airplay speakers play nice with MC, I finally stumbled across this thread. I set up tuneblade and tuneaero and now I've got perfectly synced music throughout my entire house. Bliss! Thank you!
The one remaining wrinkle is volume control. I get it that using this method, MC is essentially feeding audio to one output (the airplay/tuneblade group), so setting individual levels has to be done from the tuneblade application or at each speaker's hardware level, but I want to use JRemote for master control, which seems like it should be easy to do, and I can't get it to work. I've tried each of the various options on the MC volume slider (application/system/internal volume) with everything else at 100, and the only one that exercises any influence on volume is "internal", which behaves like a very clunky damper. The other two, application volume and system volume, do not change the actual output volume. The mute control is also non-functional--hitting mute does not mute the output. Note that this is all only when streaming to the airplay zone with tuneblade--when playing on the local "player" zone to my computer speakers everything works as it should.
I've read others' posts here saying they had _everything_ working perfectly through MC with this setup, and I assume that includes volume control through MC. Did I miss something, or does anyone have advice on how to do it?
Thanks for any advice.
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Once in a while TuneBlade seems to crash with a modal window:
"Whoops! A critical error occurred in TuneBlade."
I created a autoit3 script that deals with this.
It looks for this specific window.
If found it merely closes the tuneblade process and optionally restarts it.
You need to download autoit3.
It is also possible to compile the script into an .exe file and place it in your startup folder.
#include <MsgBoxConstants.au3>
RecoverFromTuneBladeCrash()
Func RecoverFromTuneBladeCrash()
While true
Local $hWnd = WinWait("Error", "Whoops! A critical error occurred in TuneBlade.", 10)
Local $iPID = WinGetProcess($hWnd)
If $iPID > 0 Then
;MsgBox($MB_SYSTEMMODAL, "", "The PID is: " & $iPID)
ProcessClose($iPID)
;Run("C:\Program Files (x86)\TuneBlade\TuneBlade\tuneblade.exe", "C:\Program Files (x86)\TuneBlade\TuneBlade")
EndIf
; Wait for 2 seconds.
Sleep(2000)
Wend
EndFunc
Currently I have commented out the code that relaunches TuneBlade as I use another program for this.
Feel free to include this line if needed.
This is called ProcessAlive 0.9.1
It monitors processes and relaunches them as needed. eg jriver mediacenter etc.
regards
gibman
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Threephi,
Internal volume control is how I manage master volume for the whole system. It sounds fine in my system. Search options for volume and you can see a few settings to test, including loudness on/off reference volume.
Also, it looks like a plugin for webgizmo is posted above, that looks like a good solution as well. Good luck!
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I just figured out a way to use Pandora through JRiver WDM audio with this Tune blade setup. I have missed using some of the JRiver effects like virtual sub, EQ, and loudness, but with this setup all audio effects work and pipe to airplay clients in sync.
1. Set up a zone in JRiver that outputs to a specific audio device for capture. I call this "Whole House Audio" and use the computers mini RCA output. Don't use Wasapi exclusive mode, use Direct Sound output.
2. Make sure this zone is active in JRiver. I use the command line via bat file to make sure this happens whenever I use Pandora.
3. Set windows audio to JRiver WDM.
4. Set Tuneblade to capture 'Whole House Audio"
5. Run Pandora (or Spotify or any browser based audio source)
6. Audio with DSP streams in sync throughout house with following audio chain:
Pandora in browser > WDM driver > JRiver Audio> Airplay capture zone> Tuneblade Capture > Airplay streaming > Airplay Clients.
A TuneAero client can be used on the same machine, as long as a totally different audio output device is selected.
It's not a solution for "pure" audio signal paths, but it is nice to use JRiver Audio to crank up the bass throughout the house!
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Who is still rocking Whole House Audio by playing audio from MC via Tuneblade to multiple audio renderers?
I tried using MC's own "Link" function again, but it still pretty hit or miss for me.
So...., Reinstalled Tuneblade (had lost it after a clean install) and was up and playing Whole House Audio, all in sync, to a bunch of different Audio renderers, in no time flat. I see they have not had a release for years now, but it still seems to be working well.
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Who is still rocking Whole House Audio by playing audio from MC via Tuneblade to multiple audio renderers?
I tried using MC's own "Link" function again, but it still pretty hit or miss for me.
So...., Reinstalled Tuneblade (had lost it after a clean install) and was up and playing Whole House Audio, all in sync, to a bunch of different Audio renderers, in no time flat. I see they have not had a release for years now, but it still seems to be working well.
Just for kicks I installed AirFoil on Mac which looks functionally equivalent to TuneBlade.
Used it to link multiple Id's together via their ShairPlay functionality and it worked nicely.
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Still working for me using AirFoil for Windows. The program isn't supported any longer, but still seems to be working under Win11! TuneBlade never worked quite as well for my setup, but it's good to have a backup (albeit also old) :)