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Author Topic: Surround sound line input  (Read 3826 times)

jhmkoop

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Surround sound line input
« on: March 16, 2016, 09:20:27 am »

I want to play 5.1 surround music coming from an external DVD player, that has a TOSLINK output.
Is this possible with JRiver?
Any suggestions how to get a Toslink input for my new MacBook Air (with all the "innovation" at Apple no more Spdif and Toslink on these machines).

In the application I will use, ripping and playing it on the Mac is not an option.

How about other surround formats, such as DSD?

Thanks!
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blgentry

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Re: Surround sound line input
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 09:35:59 am »

As far as I know, the Mac version of MC does not support line input at all.

I'd like it if the Mac version gets this feature, but it doesn't currently exist.

Brian.
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jhmkoop

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Re: Surround sound line input
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2016, 07:31:57 am »

Your answer suggests that the Windows version would do the trick.
Is that true?
(Though some Apple users have the "Nach Canossa gehen wir nicht"-attitude versus Windows, I am more a "Paris vaut bien une messe" type of guy)

Thanks

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mwillems

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Re: Surround sound line input
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2016, 08:17:49 am »

Your answer suggests that the Windows version would do the trick.
Is that true?
(Though some Apple users have the "Nach Canossa gehen wir nicht"-attitude versus Windows, I am more a "Paris vaut bien une messe" type of guy)

Thanks

The windows version can be configured to support certain line inputs, but you might have trouble using toslink/SDPIF for your intended application.  Specifically, SPDIF doesn't have the bandwidth to support uncompressed 5.1; it can only output 5.1 with lossy encoding.  So it's not ideal from a sound quality perspective at step one, but there's a more pressing problem:

While JRiver for windows can be configured to accept a line input from an ASIO device (or with some extra software, can be made to playback from non-ASIO live inputs as well), I'm not sure that it supports decoding on any of those inputs (I think it's just expecting an audio stream, not a DTS or DD encoded stream).  So you might need an additional piece of software as an "interpreter."

And then finding an affordable external sound device with a TOSLINK *input* (which are much, much less common than TOSLINK outputs) might be a challenge.  For example there are external devices with SPDIF outputs for $20 or $30, but I'm not aware of any quality products with SPDIF inputs that are less than $100.  And even with such a device, you may run into issues identified above with the encoding.  I don't have anything I could test with (I migrated away from SPDIF), so I can't confirm, but I would expect trouble with your proposed signal path.

Is there a reason that you can't just use an external USB DVD drive connected directly to the computer?  No need to rip, just play the disc back directly in JRiver and get lossless 5.1 (not sure if DVD playback is supported on the Mac side, but it definitely is supported on the Windows side).  That would require many fewer steps, and would almost certainly be cheaper and higher quality than trying to route TOSLINK in through an as yet to be determined device (external DVD drives cost $15).  
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blgentry

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Re: Surround sound line input
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2016, 08:26:04 am »

Mwillems is very knowledgeable about multi-channel audio, measurement, etc.  His suggestion of an alternate method is probably very wise.

Is there a reason that you can't just use an external USB DVD drive connected directly to the computer?  No need to rip, just play the disc back directly in JRiver and get lossless 5.1 (not sure if DVD playback is supported on the Mac side, but it definitely is supported on the Windows side).

Playback of any kind of encrypted (commercial) DVD or BD is not supported on Mac, including ISOs or DVD or BD file structures on disk.  This is because MC for Mac has no helper application to decrypt the DVD or BD data.  Unlike the windows version, which has a DVD helper program to decrypt DVDs on the fly.

MC for Mac can easily play ripped DVDs or BDs that have been decrypted by MakeMKV or a similar program.  But it still can't play ISOs, even if they are decrypted.

Why is it impractical to rip the optical media you are talking about playing?  Are there tons and tons of random DVDs that will be coming to this system for playback?

Brian.
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mwillems

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Re: Surround sound line input
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2016, 08:32:26 am »

Mwillems is very knowledgeable about multi-channel audio, measurement, etc.  His suggestion of an alternate method is probably very wise.

Playback of any kind of encrypted (commercial) DVD or BD is not supported on Mac, including ISOs or DVD or BD file structures on disk.  This is because MC for Mac has no helper application to decrypt the DVD or BD data.  Unlike the windows version, which has a DVD helper program to decrypt DVDs on the fly.

MC for Mac can easily play ripped DVDs or BDs that have been decrypted by MakeMKV or a similar program.  But it still can't play ISOs, even if they are decrypted.

Thanks for the added context/clarification.  So my proposal would require using MC for Windows, but it sounds like OP was already potentially on board with doing that if necessary.

Quote
Why is it impractical to rip the optical media you are talking about playing?  Are there tons and tons of random DVDs that will be coming to this system for playback?

Brian.

I wondered that myself.  Some folks have disk space limitations which makes lossless ripping impractical for their entire collection (especially when you consider the average bluray is something like 30GB just for the main feature), so that may be part of the story.  Disk space is getting cheaper and more plentiful every year though...
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