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[JimH]

[I'm moving some of the comments on the new properties method from the bug thread -- JimH]


16. Changed: Retooled file properties area a little.
17. NEW: Added "Same As Columns In Current View" for File Properties visible fields.

Matt Ashland, JRiver, Media Center & Media Jukebox  


Alt-Enter will get you properties.

The new (experimental) access to properties is the icon in the lower right corner of the properties window.  Click it and choose the "visible fields" option.


Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Jukebox & Media Center  

-------

xen-uno
Very groovy on the "visible fields" option. The ability to have multiple selections (ie General and File Info) would be nice, since when all are displayed, the sections are not collapsable.

10-27  
Rands

… a suggestion for the properties pane:  instead of being able to select only one section or all sections (or the same columns), it might be nice to be able to put checks by sections you want (i.e., general and extended only).  I know you're wanting to close out feature additions but it's just thought a thought.  

--

[JimH]

[and some more]



Rands
Senior Woodchuck
Also not entirely happy with how the properties pane lumps all properties together in a single list.  I liked how it was divided into sections that could be rolled up.  

Omni
In the file properties pane ("General" visible), the drop-down list for the Genre allows you to select the divider ("-") as the Genre.  The tags will get updated with this if you move on to another field or track.

Please, keep the divider  it's nice to have the current genre at the top of the listbut if the user selects it, maybe you can just ignore it and keep the current value, yes?

on Jul 28th, 2003, 6:29pm, Rands wrote:Also not entirely happy with how the properties pane lumps all properties together in a single list.  I liked how it was divided into sections that could be rolled up.  

Not to counter your vote in this pseudo-democracy , but I like this new method.  Before, it was slightly annoying how expanding or collapsing a section would always reset the scrollable view to the top.  For instance, when I would expand "Audio," I would then have to scroll back down to where I already was at to see it.  Not good.


knickelfarz

I like the new properties - they are much more clearly arranged now. Less confusion, less scrolling... and "Same As Columns In Current View" allows you to customize it a little bit to your needs... you are now able to see only the fields that you use in the order you prefer - very nice  

Two little things are missing in "Same As Columns In Current View":
- Renamed 'Custom' fields don't show their "new" names
- Even if 'Image File' is used as a column, it's not shown in the properties  

--

Rands

on Jul 28th, 2003, 6:36pm, Omni wrote:
Not to counter your vote in this pseudo-democracy , but I like this new method.  Before, it was slightly annoying how expanding or collapsing a section would always reset the scrollable view to the top.  For instance, when I would expand "Audio," I would then have to scroll back down to where I already was at to see it.  Not good.  

I was really too quick in writing that.  I've been messing around with it for the past half hour or whatever and I'm growing more accustomed to it.   I've been leaving it on "Same as Column Views" and it's is less cluttered, etc.  Just a matter of adjusting, that's all!  


NoCodeUK
Citizen Kane

New Tagging mode and properties are good.  Only isues I can se are minor.  That quick tag message written in the panes is annoying and is also too long to display properly unless there are only two columns.  Most of my VS have 3 so it is never fully displayed.  Could it not be  a pop up with a "Do not show this again" as Jim initially suggested.  I can understand the hand holding for noobs but once youve seen the message a couple of times it surely becomes unecessary and at that point it becomes annoying  
--

Nila
New retooling of properties area is great in that it's a lot clearer now than with the old groups.

Being able to chose just one group now to display means that its even harder though than when we could just open or close any group to edit values now in the current view.

If we're going to only be able to display one group at a time then we need to be able to change which groups items are in - including already defined items.

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knickelfarz
Senior Woodchuck

on Jul 28th, 2003, 8:24pm, Nila wrote:...If we're going to only be able to display one group at a time then we DEFINITELY need to be able to change which groups items are in - including already defined items.  

There's already an option for "User Fields" to do that... Tree & View Settings > Library Fields > Edit. In the "Configure Library Field" dialog the Category can be changed (For non "User Fields" this option is greyed out). Maybe it can be enabled for all fields...

--


Cmagic
Citizen Kane


Quote:17. NEW: Added "Same As Columns In Current View" for File Properties visible fields.  

- This is good as we now only see the relevant properties for a given media. However when in Visible Fields / All categories I was expecting the old properties scheme with the hide/show category button but apparently it has dissapeared now. I think it was better.

- Date (filename friendly) seems to have dissapeared


New properties pane.

- This is good as we now only see the relevant properties for a given media. However when in Visible Fields / All categories I was expecting the old properties scheme with the hide/show category button but apparently it has dissapeared now. I think it was better.

- (edit: sorry again, it's a read-only field of course !!) Date (filename friendly) seems to have dissapeared

[knickelfarz]

First, I was missing the "Close" button. Because the "library right click" doesn't work in build 223, I placed the properties tool button as the first button on the left in the bottom toolbar. This works nice for opening and closing the properties... I guess I won't use the right click for getting the properties any more (and I even think it's OK to leave "Close" in the popup menu...)

I'm content with the "Same As Columns In Current View", but I guess some people would like to have a customized group like Nila pointed out.

Altogether I think that these "New Properties" are the best solution for 9.1 ... I will not nag and talk about split screens until the mysterious "new project" starts  

Keep up the great work!

[Doof]

I'm actually not sure how I feel about it right now. It means rethinking how I use them, but a part of me says that once I move in that direction, it'll be better than it was before. It means that I can only see fields that make sense for the files I'm viewing, but it also means that I don't also have one click access to every field when I need it. But I can still get there with 2 extra clicks.

So it'll take some time to see what this actually does to my day-to-day usage.

One thing I might suggest, though, is that you allow multiple sections to be selected. So we could show General and Extended, but not the others, etc.

[Jaguu]

It is a little better, but its only cosmetics not functionality. The two big improvements would be:

1) Displaying of fields according to media type such as no more bitrate etc. for image files

2) More distinct categories according to media type and possibility to create user defined categories, I would like to have categories such as: General, Classical Music, Other Music, Photos, Pictures, Artwork, Video. Nila would certainly like to have TV-Series, Movies etc.

The luxury variation would be to make display of properties field dependent on view schemes. Define new view scheme, add property fields to be displayed for that scheme, add column fields to be displayed for that scheme, add sorting for that scheme.

Also, when in Window mode the property window should have a previous/next track arrow to scroll through the tracks without opening/closing the property window for every track selected (this would save many mouse clicks!)

[knickelfarz]

1) Displaying of fields according to media type such as no more bitrate etc. for image files
...
The luxury variation would be to make display of properties field dependent on view schemes. Define new view scheme, add property fields to be displayed for that scheme, add column fields to be displayed for that scheme, add sorting for that scheme.

If you use "Same As Columns In Current View", it already does something like that...

EDIT: A little addition that could make that better:

The right click menu of the columns offers you "Make All Views Like Current...".
If you right click within an AUDIO list, it would be nice to have an entry like "Make All Audio Views Like Current...".
If you right click within an IMAGE list, it would be nice to have an entry like "Make All Image Views Like Current...".
And so on...

This would make it easier to set up the whole thing and would prevent you from killing your setups by accident...

[drosoph]

I think three should be two changes ...
1)  Be able to select multiple groups of tags
2)  Have another selection for "Group Properties by Type" to get us back to the old clustering of tag types if you want to see it ... currently the View All gets a bit cumbersome .. but if you could click to group them .. that would make it much more pleasing to the eye.

[LonWar]

I think three should be two changes ...
2)  Have another selection for "Group Properties by Type" to get us back to the old clustering of tag types if you want to see it ... currently the View All gets a bit cumbersome .. but if you could click to group them .. that would make it much more pleasing to the eye.

I agree 100%. It's not as easy to view.

[xen-uno]

Personally I think "All Categories" should be the default until changed by user. May trip noob's up otherwise...plus it burns the mere act of changing it into even a seasoned user's noodle.

10^-27

edit: Enhancement (not a new feature ). Property view that (dynamically) mirrored the selected files non-null tags would be nice. If two (or more) files are selected where one isn't tagged and one is (or they are two different file types), then MC would show fields for all tags common and tags unique to either one of them.

[jleerigby]

Yes it's better.  It's miles better.  Spot on.  Easy to navigate and customise (within reason).  I suppose it's never customisable enough for some but I love it.

[jleerigby]

One small suggestion that would help those that don't like it's position in the lower left - not me, I love it there but many have commented on this.

Provide an 'always on top' option when not docked so they can put it where they like without losing the view when clicking somewhere else within MC.

Just a thought.

[NoCodeUK]

I like it...the only problem I foresee is if you have a field where the column is not showing in the View Scheme but does still contain relevant data.  This is where something like Jaguu mentioned would be better where you could not only choose the columns that appear in the view scheme but also the fields that appear in the properties for that Scheme.

Adam

[NoCodeUK]

The only other thing I thought of is could the image view in theproperties pane be made independant of properties so that it always shows the image of the currently playing file but all proprerties / statistics still relate to the highlighted file.  I think this would be a great feature to have the image follow the tracks...at the moment it is a bit redundant...if this is not possible I was considering writing a small plugin that would allow you to put small window in the left hand corner to show the current image file that could be minimised when you wanted to access properties.  I haven't programmed for MC before but I am guessing it would be a simple case of getting the image file path for the currently playing file and displaying it in a picture box...if I am being way too simplistic could someone tell me

Adam

[xen-uno]

JL > Provide an 'always on top' option when not docked

There is...

On the undocked properties window, right click on the title bar...choose "always on top".

10^-27

PS: my two quatloo's...I like it's docked position

[nila]

I think it has the POSSIBILITY to be a LOT better.

Just needs tweaking.

For a start - it DEFINITELY needs to be on 'show all fields' as default - otherwise ur going to have a LOT of users who are just starting with MC being: um - why isn't field X showing here? Can this program not deal with that field - better to show them all and as they get better they can refine what they see.

Also,
I REALLY think allowing us to customise GROUPS for the properties that are our own custom ones would be perfect for a LOT of reasons.

1. Right now changing to other groups to display for properties is useless - the fields we want could easily be spread across several groups and would mean if we didn't want to 'see all' or 'see items in current view' - we' d have to change between several groups - thats worse than the old way.

2. If we were aloud to customise the groups this could also be used to add a grouping level to: Visible columns, Choosing what panes etc - where the list is just a BIG long unsorted list.

If we could totally customise the groups - and put fields in multiple groups etc then we could create relivant groups:

Photos - Artist, Photographer, People, Width, Height
Music Video's - Artist, Song Name, Song Album, Dancers, etc.
TV Series - Series Name, Series Number, Description
Songs - Artist, Album, Name, etc


As you can see - several fields would be in multiple groups so selecting a group for them exclusively would default the purpose.

When customising the panes or visible columns for say our photos view scheme we could then navigate to 'visible colums/photos' and we'd only see the fields we'd put into this group. It would REALLY tidy up and make this huge list a LOT cleaner and easier to find fields etc.

We could then change to groups in properties that were appropriate to what we were dealing with by just choosing 'Photos' and have all the fields we wanted related to this showing. - It'd a LOT more useful than selecting: 'extended' or something which has no real relivance or idea as to what it is going to give me.

The groups now just aren't appropriate enough to what we might use it for. They're just vague pre-defined fields and different media types can easily span several groups.


One other small point - fields like: Lyrics or Bios are unlikely to be in visible columns as these are designed premarily for 'playing now' and so might be harder to access via the new method.



I know features are closed but I'm only saying this because properties is something your still working on and trying to refine - I really feel this would totally overhaul it and help tidy it up - the big lists of fields right now are just abit overwhelming.

[xen-uno]

Another thing about the properties window's "Always on Top"...

The window seems to be programmatically in the same class as say the Messenger Service popup. I think it should stay on top of the MC app only...not other apps. Currently, to what benefit is it? It gets in the way if it's open and your working in something else.

10^-27

[Marko]

From the latest (.224) beta release...

14. Changed: File properties combo lists no longer divides used from unused property values. (more consistent with panes)

Is there any possibility this could be put back the way it was? I found it really helpful in the past and am missing it already.

[gkerber]

JL > Provide an 'always on top' option when not docked

There is...

On the undocked properties window, right click on the title bar...choose "always on top".

I learn someting new every day.....

(I like it undocked....)

[packyb]

I use MC with my iPod, and I use the AlbumArtist option for all albums with vaious artists. Can I make Album Artist visible in the file properties, without eliminating the default visible fields (same as coumns in current view)?

[lee269]

My first moment of panic was missing the button to toggle the properties pane/window. I used that a lot because I found the pane too small. However this is outweighed by the fact that I now have much more control over what appears in the properties so I can filter out fields I dont edit much. So my first reaction is that 'Toggle Popup' is much less obvious or descriptive than a toolbar button.

Overall, I think its an improvement, but I need to live with it longer to form a concrete opinion.

[phelt]

Perhaps I am missing something and someone can help me out... Is there no longer a way to view General Properties at the same time as Extended Properties, or another set of properties? 'Columns in current view' is not enough for me because I try to keep the number of columns low, and used properties for additional info. Switching between views doesn't give me the same ability to quickly compare fields or copy and paste between them.

When I saw checkmarks next to items within the Visible Fields menu I thought that meant that multiple items could be selected, ala web forms. If the intention is to display only one category at a time, bullets might be a better choice for selection indication.

I see folks' complaints about scrolling the rollup tabs in the previous version of properties, but what about navigating to a small button selecting a branch and then a sub-branch in a popup menu?

[jleerigby]

Is there no longer a way to view General Properties at the same time as Extended Properties, or another set of properties?

I just used tree and view settings in options to move all the tags I use regularly into the General section.  The only one I couldn't move was Image File which is no big hardship.

Update: Maybe I found a bug.  I moved properties fields to the General Category before this build but can't seem to be able to move any others 'cos the option's greyed out.

[Doof]

When I saw checkmarks next to items within the Visible Fields menu I thought that meant that multiple items could be selected, ala web forms. If the intention is to display only one category at a time, bullets might be a better choice for selection indication.

First of all, I agree that checkmarks shouldn't be used in this case. They are traditionally used when multiple choices are allowed.

But ultimately, I'd like to see you be able to select multiple categories, so the checkmarks should stay.

But for the time being, you can choose "All Categories".

[phelt]

JLee: Thanks for the hint - that would have solved my problem but I too found that I could not select/alter the categories.

Doof: I agree completely on the multiple categories. I don't like All Categories though - leads me to more scrolling than the collapsible tabs did and looks pretty 'noisy'.

I appreciate the responses and suggestions  

[gkerber]

The "always on top" is good, but as someone else also said, it should always be on top of MC but on top of everthing in Windows.