Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[dreandre]

The Setup:

I use a PC computer with multiple drives/drive letters to manage my media files.  Recently I've had to expand my capacity which means adding more drives and moving files around. When I moved my media files (mostly Video), they all lost all of the custom tagging that I had done over the years (this is my year for loosing data apparently).

What I think I understand so far, from the research that I have done, is that tags can be stored in the file itself, or in the library used to manage, organize and display the file.  It seems that files are typically copied to you computer in "Read-Only" status.  Concerning the file, you would want to make sure that you (your windows login profile) has full write privileges to the file, and that the file is not marked as read-only.  In addition, you want to make sure the settings are set properly in your library program (in my case, JRiver) to tag the files properly.  It seems that once you have organized and tagged your files in JRiver, you then want to use the command "Update Tags (From Library)" to ensure that the tags make it to the actual file and not just the library. 

In JRiver, there also seems to be an alternative called a sidecar XLM file that will house your tag information in the event that the tag information is not contained in the file itself.

The Questions:

1.  Is my basic understanding correct so far? Am I missing something crucial?

2. Since I have to retag everything, how can I do this so that my files remain tagged properly if I need to move the files or change the drive letter or path?

3. How do you properly use "Update Tags (From Library)?  Right now I keep getting the error, "# files updated (# failures)" where the # is always the total count of files.

4. Is there an advantage to use a 2nd program (I have mp3tag)?  How do they work together if I have to go that route?

Thanks for your answers to one or all of these questions.  Maybe refer to them by number so that I can follow you better when you answer!  Thanks!!!

Andre!! 

[dreandre]

There's one more thing I can add related to question 3.... while playing around a bit and using the panes set up with Pane Tagging enabled, I decided to try to "Update tags (From Library)" for each video file type.  The results were:

3gp = Got error
avi = Got error
flv = Got error
mp4 = Got error
mpg = Got error
wmv = All files updated

Any insight??

[blgentry]

It seems that files are typically copied to you computer in "Read-Only" status.

I don't know why that would be the case.  Files should be read/write as long as you have permissions in the target directories and you haven't set the files to be read only on purpose.

2. Since I have to retag everything, how can I do this so that my files remain tagged properly if I need to move the files or change the drive letter or path?

You shouldn't have to retag.  Did you move the files manually?  If so, you can go back to a database backup where MC thinks the files are in the OLD location WITH all of their tags intact.  Then you can use the Rename, Move, and Copy tool to tell MC that the files were moved.  You tell it the new drive letter, and it will update all of the database entries.  Use the "update database" mode of the RM&C tool.  That way, you won't lose your tags.  MC makes automatic Library backups every few days.  You should be able to restore to a date slightly before you moved the files.  File > Library > Restore Library

I'm going to table the rest of your questions for now because the "big deal" is getting your files set back up:

A)  With read/write status so they can be worked with.
B)  The Library restored back to the old tags, and updated to the new file location.

Brian.

[RoderickGI]

Did you use the Rename, Move, and Copy Files function? You should have, and then any Sidecar files would have been moved with the files, and your tags would still be there.

There are some caveats. Read the Wiki article carefully. You may need to move the Sidecar files manually now if you used an external application to move the files.

1. I think you are obsessing over the "Read-Only" status of files a bit, but yes, you need write access to be able to write tags into files. In a normal windows environment if you are copying files to disk, you should have access to read and write to them. They shouldn't be copied to you computer in "Read-Only" status, but that will depend on the source. If they are, change the status.
You will have external Sidecar XML files if you have set the "Store tags in external sidecar files if the file type does not support tagging: Video" in the Options/General, and the file type can't store tags, or MC can't write the tags to the files.
If you lost the Sidecar XML tag files, you could run "Update Tags (From Library)" to update or recreate the sidecar files. But MC should already know about the tags, particularly if they were written to the files. For most audio file formats, tags will be written into the files. For most video formats I'm not sure they are. See below.

2. Always use the "Rename, Move, and Copy Files" function in future. Read the Wiki carefully. Do not leave the "Move all files in folder" flag set unless you really understand what it means, and need to do that. Now that you have moved the files, you may be able to find the Sidecar XML files that have all your tags in them and move them to the same location as the files you moved, and get all your tags back.
If you moved the files outside MC, you will have needed to run, or have running in the background, Auto-Import with the "Update for external changes" flag set. If you did move the files externally to MC, and let Auto-Import run without that flag, then changing the flag now and manually running Auto-Import may get all your tags back.
EDIT: Brian's suggestion may work as well, although if external changes were made, I'm not sure the RM&C tool is the best option. Auto-Import with the "Update for external changes" flag set would seem more logical, but it may be too late for that if you have already imported without the correct setting. Restoring an earlier database and running Auto-Import with the "Update for external changes" flag set would definitely recover all tags for files up to the time of the backup. You could try Auto-Import without a restore first, no harm in that. If you didn't get the tags back, restore a backup, set that flag again, and run Auto-Import.

3. I don't know why you are getting that error, unless you haven't set the "Store tags in external sidecar files if the file type does not support tagging: Video" in the Options/General, and MC is unable to save the tags to the files. I don't get the errors, but I have that setting.
Test using only a few files of each type, and use Undo if you need to. Do not select every file of a particular type unless you understand exactly what is going to happen. In fact, it is never a good idea to select a large number of files to make changes all at once, at least until you have tested your settings properly with a few files.

4. No. Okay, some people like to use certain other programs to change tags. But if you do that, you need to understand the consequences for MC, and at a minimum you will need to run "Update Library from Tags", and if you do that, you had better be very very sure that you have all the tag information you want in the files, ready to update the library.

If you take a look at the attached image, see where the text "AVI - 40:43 - 350 MB" is, when the tag Action Window is open? Click on the equivalent text for your file, and the Action Window will change to display the tags actually stored in the file, rather than in a Sidecar XML file. I only have a few WMV files, and they all have tags in them. None of my other video files have tags in them. I have set in Options/General both the "Update tags when file info changes" and the "Store tags in external sidecar files if the file type does not support tagging: Video" flags.

I should look into why tags don't seem to be stored in most Video files, because I thought they should be for many formats. But for now I rely on the external sidecar XML files to store tags for Video.

[dreandre]

Thank you Brian! This seems to be a solution to my problem... However, I need a bit more instruction.

You tell it the new drive letter, and it will update all of the database entries.  Use the "update database" mode of the RM&C tool.

How do I tell the RM&C tool to go the new drive letter, but then update the files according to the folder structure?  (see capture1).  Right now, without adding any expression commands, it wants to update directly into the root folder. (see capture 2)

Thanks!

******UPDATE AFTER NEW POST******

Thanks Roderick, Here's my response to some of you feedback:

While you were responding, I was in the middle of following Brian's instructions.  I made a current back-up of the library as it exists now, and I then went and restored back to a previous backup and all the tags were there.  I did not execute any changes, so I have un-restored and now I am back to my current state.  Roderick if your feedback doesn't work, I think i have Brian's feedback as a last resort.

Did you use the Rename, Move, and Copy Files function?

I did not.  I manually moved all files and folders from one drive to the other using Windows Cut & Paste.  I have not mastered the RM&C wiki but I will now before I go forward.

I think you are obsessing over the "Read-Only" status

Well, most of what I expressed was somewhat of a summary of what I have been reading in other posts.  I tried to research and check out everything that I found on my own before posting.  Just to be sure, I did go through and confirm that the files were NOT marked as read-only (I also seem to recall warning messages from time to time while tagging, letting me know that some files were marked read-only, so that should be ruled out now).

You will have external Sidecar XML files if you have set the "Store tags in external sidecar files if the file type does not support tagging: Video" in the Options/General, and the file type can't store tags, or MC can't write the tags to the files.

I double checked and that setting is checked.  I will admit before today I never understood the purpose of those files, and I have deleted some of them on occasion. That probably explains the errors that you responded about later in your post.  If there were any sidecars that had not been deleted manually by me, they would have been copied over since I moved the whole file structure over from the old drive to the new drive.

let Auto-Import run without that flag, then changing the flag now and manually running Auto-Import may get all your tags back.

I had been thinking along these lines, so when i moved the files to the new drive, I did run Auto-Import.  Update for external changes was checked, but when the import was finished, the tags were missing.  I had also removed the old watch folder paths and added the new paths in the configuration window so that it would find the new location.  Taking your advice, I just re-ran Auto-Import without the flag, and again with the flag but no change.

the Action Window will change to display the tags actually stored in the file, rather than in a Sidecar XML file.

You are right.  Hardly any of my files have any tag data in them.


NEW QUESTION:  Is it possible to generate new sidecar files?  From a back-up perhaps? or will the back-up look for the old drive locations and try to put the files there? 

NEXT STEP:  Study the Wiki before I proceed.  I will comment again before I try anything!  Thanks!!!

[blgentry]

You may or may not want to do this, but I thought I'd respond to this one question...

How do I tell the RM&C tool to go the new drive letter, but then update the files according to the folder structure?

Uncheck "directory".  Check "Find and Replace".  Then put your old drive prefix in Find.  Put your new drive letter (and maybe base directory) in Replace.  Look at the preview to make sure it's right.  Try it on ONE FILE first.  See if it works.  If it does, you can do a larger batch.  Then, eventually, all of the files.

Good luck.

Brian.

[dreandre]

Indeed Brian!  Reading up on that right now, and I think that is what I should have done to begin with!

[RoderickGI]

NEW QUESTION:  Is it possible to generate new sidecar files?  From a back-up perhaps? or will the back-up look for the old drive locations and try to put the files there? 

Once you have the tags back in the library, and everything pointing to the correct location, then running the "Update tags from library" for the affected files will recreate any missing Sidecar XML files. As you moved the whole directories, MC should find the existing Sidecar files, so you would only need to recreate the missing ones.

How do I tell the RM&C tool to go the new drive letter, but then update the files according to the folder structure?  (see capture1).  Right now, without adding any expression commands, it wants to update directly into the root folder. (see capture 2)

I know it is greyed out and probably not active, but you should uncheck the "Move all files in folder" setting before doing anything else.

It looks like you have a range of directory name structures for movies, Some are the movie name plus year i.e. [Name] ([year]). Some are the file name, and some are just movie files in the root Movie directory.

Therefore, I think if you use Brian's method of fixing the problem, you need to uncheck the Directories item, and check the "Find & Replace" item. Then find :\\DRESCLOUD\Public\" and replace with "S:\". Check that carefully before executing though. You should be able to see if it is doing the correct thing.

You could use the RM&CF function later to standardise your directory naming if you wished, to something like S:\Shared videos\Movies\[Name] ([year]).

EDIT: I see Brian and I agree. 

[dreandre]

OK Continuing onward......

Once you have the tags back in the library, and everything pointing to the correct location, then running the "Update tags from library" for the affected files will recreate any missing Sidecar XML files.

Just for the sake of this thread, I have updated my movies tags by hand (rather than using a backup).  Then I select the files and run "Update tags from Library" and I get the error screen in capture3.  This means that I can't generate new sidecar files correct?

I should look into why tags don't seem to be stored in most Video files, because I thought they should be for many formats.

Does this mean that we are waiting for more follow up information after you do some research? 

PS....  Enjoying this education process...   

[RoderickGI]

Then I select the files and run "Update tags from Library" and I get the error screen in capture3.  This means that I can't generate new sidecar files correct?

Strange. I actually tested that process by renaming a sidecar file for one on my movies and recreated it by running "Update tags from Library". The old and the new sidecar files were identical. I wonder what is going on there. Were any sidecar files actually created, despite the error messages?

We must have some different setting somewhere. However I thought the only setting that would make a difference was the "Store tags in external sidecar files if the file type does not support tagging: Video" flag. Are you sure that setting is set? There should be a tick next to the Video when you click on the setting, as per the attached image.

I'm also wondering if the original sidecar files that you must have moved with the movie files are causing a problem. I would have thought they shouldn't, and would just be overwritten if they existed when you ran "Update tags from Library".

Does this mean that we are waiting for more follow up information after you do some research? 

PS....  Enjoying this education process...   

That might be a while down the track. I'll get around to it, but I think someone wants me to mow the grass, and do some other work around the place that might come first. 
Actually it may require some input from the developers as to what is going on.

Learning is always fun. I'm learning more by helping you and others. It is good.

[blgentry]

Just for the sake of this thread, I have updated my movies tags by hand (rather than using a backup).  Then I select the files and run "Update tags from Library" and I get the error screen in capture3.  This means that I can't generate new sidecar files correct?

I would check the directories where those movies are located and see if any of them have sidecars.  Just for completeness, see how you have this option set:  Tools > Options > General > Importing & Tagging > store tags in external sidecar files...

I just tested by deleting some of my sidecar files, then running Update Tags (from library).  The sidecars were recreated.  Now, I'm running MC21.0.19 on a MAC (not windows), but I think things are almost identical when it comes to this feature (sidecar files).

It seems to me that you have a disk permissions problem.  Or an ownership problem on those directories.  Check the permissions and ownership on that disk or top level directory.  You might do the "take ownership" process and apply it to all files and directories below the top level.  I don't run any windows machines any more, so I'll defer to someone else who might have more specific information on how to do this in windows.

Brian.

[blgentry]

I should look into why tags don't seem to be stored in most Video files, because I thought they should be for many formats. But for now I rely on the external sidecar XML files to store tags for Video.

As far as I know, based on reading other threads, the ONLY video format that MC writes tags to is WMV.  It's weird that it does just that one format, but that's how it works.  Another poster noticed that as he changed tags, his backup program would backup his WMVs again.  Because they had changed internally (the tags).  The other video formats can't be written to by MC (by design), so MC uses sidecar files instead.  At least that's how I understand it.

Brian.

[glynor]

Then I select the files and run "Update tags from Library" and I get the error screen in capture3.  This means that I can't generate new sidecar files correct?

If the source media files themselves are read-only (due to lack of permissions in one way or another, or because they are in-use elsewhere) then you cannot write new sidecar XML files.

This is probably not strictly required (since it is writing to the XML file, and not to tags within the file), but I'd guess it uses the same logic as regular tag writing under the covers.  In any case, if you get that error, the most likely causes are:

* The directory you are trying to write to is read-only for some reason (filesystem or network share permissions)
* The source media file(s) for which you are trying to write tags is read-only (read-only attribute, filesystem, or network share permissions)
* The source media file(s) for which you are trying to write tags is in-use (either by MC, by another application on the computer, or by another network user)

[ferday]

I should look into why tags don't seem to be stored in most Video files, because I thought they should be for many formats. But for now I rely on the external sidecar XML files to store tags for Video.

It's because of a lack of tag standards like id3, and to further that there is no agreement on how to store the tags (RIFF chunk, imbedded, etc).  If MC tagged videos it would break their use in other players (potentially)

IIRC the devs said .wmv get tagged because Microsoft has a standard for the format that all players must support

[dreandre]

SUMMARY OF SOLUTIONS: 

"Store tags in external sidecar files if the file type does not support tagging: Video" flag. Are you sure that setting is set?

So the sidecar issue WAS USER ERROR!  Thanks Roderick for posting a screenshot.  I had not realized to click and get the sub menu that says "Video" to make sure it was checked.  Once checked, I was able to generate all of the sidecar files (and I promise I will not delete any of them again!!).

 

If the source media files themselves are read-only (due to lack of permissions in one way or another, or because they are in-use elsewhere) then you cannot write new sidecar XML files.

This is probably not strictly required (since it is writing to the XML file, and not to tags within the file), but I'd guess it uses the same logic as regular tag writing under the covers.  In any case, if you get that error, the most likely causes are:

* The directory you are trying to write to is read-only for some reason (filesystem or network share permissions)
* The source media file(s) for which you are trying to write tags is read-only (read-only attribute, filesystem, or network share permissions)
* The source media file(s) for which you are trying to write tags is in-use (either by MC, by another application on the computer, or by another network user)

This sums up much of what I had seen in other posts!  Great response!

It's because of a lack of tag standards like id3, and to further that there is no agreement on how to store the tags (RIFF chunk, imbedded, etc).  If MC tagged videos it would break their use in other players (potentially)

IIRC the devs said .wmv get tagged because Microsoft has a standard for the format that all players must support

This is why MC use sidecars.... DON'T DELETE THEM!!   

Always use the "Rename, Move, and Copy Files" function in future. Read the Wiki carefully. Do not leave the "Move all files in folder" flag set unless you really understand what it means, and need to do that.

Uncheck "directory".  Check "Find and Replace".  Then put your old drive prefix in Find.  Put your new drive letter (and maybe base directory) in Replace.  Look at the preview to make sure it's right.  Try it on ONE FILE first.  See if it works.  If it does, you can do a larger batch.  Then, eventually, all of the files.

This is the way to do what I was trying to do properly.  Moving forward, I will be mastering the "Rename, Move, and Copy Files" function.  If I have any more questions I will start a new post with RM&C as the topic!!

THANK YOU TEAM!!!   

[RoderickGI]

Excellent.

An image is sometimes the only way to be sure we say what we mean. Plus that particular setting works a little bit differently to every other setting in MC, since it is a list of one option. I always found it a bit strange.

Now I don't need to do any research regarding tagging videos, although I find it very strange that MP4s and MKVs, for example, don't have a tagging standard. For some of those file types even Window Explorer allows some user data to be entered. Oh well, now we know.

[dreandre]

Plus that particular setting works a little bit differently to every other setting in MC, since it is a list of one option.

I thought the same thing, and knowing the way my mind works, it's quite possible that I clicked on it and saw the word "Video" and didn't comprehend that it was a clickable option or toggle.  Glad to know now though!   

[normd]

Many thanks for this thread.  I was able to restore my tags bu using the directory change at the bottom of the Move panel.