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[Shasta Mike]

In another thread it was discussed that there is a volume field (R128 tags) that I am not familiar with. This could be handy for me as I find the analyze audio cannot level the playing volume sufficiently for me and the low volume level I like to use.  Some songs have volume too low to hear well and I would like to change the preset volume on a small number of individual songs. Manually changing the volume is very cumbersome in my DLNA setup so setting up once and not having to futz with it again would be very nice.   

I found the field and in some I've analyzed I see a LU number.  However, I don't understand the value system of this field and what positive and negative mean and would be interested in learning more.

Reading a bit more about this in the Wiki it seems that modifying this field may not affect DLNA volume unless using DSP and  the output function which so far I have found causes severe playback malfunction with my DLNA device.  Any clarification of this would also be appreciated.

Thanks!

[wer]

R128 is an industry standard algorithm for describing the loudness and dynamic range of audio.  MC runs the R128 algorithm against files when doing Audio Analysis.

MC uses this analysis with its volume leveling feature, so if you don't have Volume Leveling turned on in DSP Studio, this is meaningless for you.

You can learn about how MC implements this feature at these two links, one of which has a link to the original R128 standard:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=82025.0
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Dynamic_Range

Once Audio Analysis is complete, MC writes the [Volume Level (R128)] field.  You can show this field displayed in a column for any file, or see the field in the tag editor.  MC uses the value of this field as input for the Volume Leveling function.

When Volume Leveling runs as playback commences, it will use whatever value is in this field.  If you modify the field, you modify how Volume Leveling treats the file. (If you re-run Audio Analysis on the file, the calculated R128 value will be put back.)

A file that the R128 algorithm decided needed no adjustment would have a value in this field of 0.0.

If you decrease the value in this field, Volume Leveling will play the track quieter. A larger value will make the file sound louder.  So if you reduce the value in the field by -1.5db, Volume Leveling will play the file 1.5db quieter.  The whole file, not just the peaks.

Be warned that if this field is set to "Save in file tags" in MC settings, if you manipulate the field, the change will be written to the file.  Other applications that read and honor the R128 tag will also adjust their playback of the file accordingly.  Changing the value of the tag does not change the waveform of the file, only the R128 tag.

The reason you might want to manipulate this value is that R128 is not perfect.  It emphasizes the main part, in terms of time, of the audio signal, and give less importance to short transient peaks.  So a thing like a very loud gunshot will not have as much effect on an R128 analysis as on other algorithms.  So if you think overall the volume is good, but wow that explosion was too loud, that is typical of R128.  It's a good algorithm, but in my opinion works better for music than for movie soundtracks.  Not many songs have gunshots.  In such a case, reducing the field might give you results you prefer.

Some people might advise against doing this at all.  But it is really appropriate behavior in only a small minority of cases.  Like 1 or 2 out of a hundred.  If you find you want to modify the volume of 20% or half of your files, you need to look at other ways to change volume in MC; there are many.

If you are interested in something that will address peak volume of transients, while leaving the rest of the soundtrack alone, Volume Leveling does not do that. You would need to look into Dynamic Range Compression.

I hope this helps...

[Shasta Mike]

MC uses this analysis with its volume leveling feature, so if you don't have Volume Leveling turned on in DSP Studio, this is meaningless for you.

Yes, I saw this in the Wiki and have not been successful thus far using DSP  with my DLNA device (Sony SMP-n200). Anything tried so far like effects or changing attributes in Output Format have caused severe stuttering or other playback issues. 

So, I may be SOL on this one unless the DSP Studio features are improved to work better with DLNA devices. 

Thanks!

[wer]

Volume Leveling only works with DLNA if you transcode.  If you don't transcode, the file is sent to the DLNA client, and it's up to the client to decide what to do with it.  MC can't control that.

So are you sure you're configuring the MC DLNA server to actually do what you want?  You know the DSP Studio settings for that are totally separate, right?

It is configured in Options->Media Network->Add or configure DLNA servers->Advanced->DSP Studio

Those are the DSP Studio settings for a given DLNA server.  And remember it only works if you're transcoding, in other words, changing the audio format.

And if you're going to force change the audio format, you need to make sure what you're doing is going to be accepted by your DLNA client.  Learning how to do that correctly is a whole other thing.

Lots of people around here are doing things like this with their DLNA server. It works.  Up to a point of course, because DLNA has lots of flaws and is generally crappy, and I mean industry-wide, not with MC.  That's one of the reasons I don't really use it much.

[Shasta Mike]

It is configured in Options->Media Network->Add or configure DLNA servers->Advanced->DSP Studio 
Those are the DSP Studio settings for a given DLNA server. 

Yes - this is where I was configuring it. 

And remember it only works if you're transcoding

I understand transcoding music files to a point, but, not entirely sure I am following you here.  I attached a picture of my DLNA config settings.  Using anything in DSP so far has caused playback issues and been unusable.  So, I am not sure how I would transcode the FLAC files I am playing.   

[wer]

Other people here are more experienced with using DLNA than I.  I just don't need it.  Maybe one of them will chime in with something new.

But if you want to force transcoding (format conversion) you need to set the audio mode (in the dialog you screenshot) to "Specified format".  Then under "Audio formats to convert" make sure they are all selected.  From your screenie, FLAC already is selected, but the mode is not forcing it.

The DLNA client might support FLAC natively, and if it does, and the server offers it, then it will take the unmodified FLAC and do as it pleases.  That means no volume leveling or any other DSP Studio processing for you.  By changing the mode to "Specified format" then it will force the transcoding from FLAC to PCM.  You will not lose audio quality, because both are mathematically equivalent, but during the transcoding your DSP Studio settings will be applied.

For testing purposes, the only thing you should enable in DSP Studio is volume leveling.  With that, and the settings I gave you, Volume Leveling should be applied to your DLNA streaming.  As long as that is the only setting you apply in DSP Studio, playback should proceed normally.

Using anything in DSP so far has caused playback issues and been unusable.

As to this, based on the settings you're showing, your DSP Studio settings probably weren't even being used if the format wasn't being transcoded.

If you continue to have general playback issues when DSP Studio modules are active, that is something else, but you will have to provide more detailed information to prove that, including an accurate and precise description ("playback issues" is a worthless phrase) and full screenshots of the DSP Studio config as well as all the other DLNA server settings under Advanced.  It's the renderer and controller (together, the DLNA client) that actually controls playback of the file.  About the only thing the server can do is provide the data in an incompatible format.  I'll let someone else spend time diagnosing general DLNA weirdness, because that's a real rat's nest.  One of our forum members is an expert on it though.

[Shasta Mike]

Thanks wer for your help!

I set Mode to Specified Output Format and Format to PCM 16-bit.  In DSP I checked Volume Leveling and Adaptive Leveling.  But, in the dialogue next to Volume Leveling there is a statement that "Playback stopped or current playback does not support processing."

Everything plays but see picture below for what the Audio Path dialogue box is saying.  Does this look correct? Seems like it is not but I don't know.  I stopped and started the DLNA and resent the playlist to start playing but did not close JRiver down and restart after making the changes in DSP.  I am not 100% sure what is required to ensure the new DSP settings are enabled. 

Thanks. 

[RoderickGI]

I thought you may have been asking this question because of your DLNA issue.

As I said in that thread:

Change your DLNA "Audio > Mode" to "Specified output format" and try again.

Re-read this post until you understand it: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,125057.msg866009.html#msg866009
Read the Wiki, search the forum, and Google terms if necessary.

DLNA is a bit tricky. Even if you have FLAC flagged to be converted, if the DLNA Renderer says it can play FLAC, MC may not convert to PCM. Forcing the conversion, particularly with your Sony Media Player which is quite old, would be best. Basically, your Sony Media Player only plays PCM anyway.

EDIT: I tested using the "Specified output format only when necessary" and including FLAC files in the list of files to convert. I observed two things:
1. MC wouldn't play the tracks, and just worked down the Playing Now list until it was finished. This isn't unusual when I'm changing lots of things and testing stuff, so while annoying wasn't concerning. Restarting MC and my DLNA Renderer fixed that.
2. With this configuration the Audio Path was not populated, with just the "Not using JRiver audio engine". It appears that DSP changes are not being applied at all. I confirmed this with significant Equaliser adjustments, which could be heard.

So, you must use the DLNA "Audio > Mode" to "Specified output format" setting.

I set Mode to Specified Output Format and Format to PCM 16-bit.  In DSP I checked Volume Leveling and Adaptive Leveling.

Good. Try some other DSP settings to prove they they are being applied, such as swap the left and right channels as per my post in that other thread.

But, in the dialogue next to Volume Leveling there is a statement that "Playback stopped or current playback does not support processing."

That is the normal message when nothing is playing, even for local playback with DSP. Play something locally and look at that function again in the normal DSP section (not the DLNA DSP section). That same information is available in the new Audio Path functionality I described for playing to a DLNA Renderer. That information will not be displayed in the DLNA DSP area even when something is playing to the DLNA Renderer. That functionality has not been implemented. Hence, use the Audio Path.

Everything plays but see picture below for what the Audio Path dialogue box is saying. Does this look correct? Seems like it is not but I don't know.

There is no attached picture.

I stopped and started the DLNA and resent the playlist to start playing but did not close JRiver down and restart after making the changes in DSP.  I am not 100% sure what is required to ensure the new DSP settings are enabled.

You only have to stop playback and restart it for new DSP effects to be applied. Make sure you are still looking at the correct Zone when you try this, as MC can switch back to the Default Zone when DSP changes are made.

[wer]

Why hiya Rod!

So, you must use the DLNA "Audio > Mode" to "Specified output format" setting.

Are you just going to tell him the same things I already told him?   

I think I've set him straight on the volume leveling and transcoding. I'm not yet sure there actually are any DLNA issues other than confusion; his last message said things were playing and didn't mention "playback issues".  Do you want to carry on with any DLNA issues?  I don't see Andrew riding in on his white bear horse to save the day...
I'll gladly hand off any DLNA playback problems to anybody that wants them...   

[RoderickGI]

Are you just going to tell him the same things I already told him?   

Actually I had already told him that in that previous thread. I was a little frustrated to see in his image above that he hadn't made that change, and also that he was pursuing the problem that he had via another method. i.e. Adjusting the R128 field.

Yes, msojka, I'm talking about you.

Otherwise, I would have left you to explain Volume Leveling etc. I wasn't going to touch on that. But it doesn't matter what he does with Volume Leveling and other DSP settings, if those settings aren't being applied to DLNA playback.

Sorry if it looked like I was stepping on your toes. 

[RoderickGI]

Yes, this is all DLNA stuff Wer.

Okay, I see you have now added the image msojka.

No, that display of the Audio Path does not look correct, as it isn't showing any DSP being applied. What DSP have you actually applied, just Volume Leveling and Adaptive Volume?

If so, it is possible that the DSP is not being applied to your DLNA playback. But the Audio Path display for DLNA playback is new and still a work in progress, so it may just be the display that isn't working. Unless you can tell the difference in the audio output between when DSP is being applied and isn't, you will need to add some other DSP settings to confirm DSP is being activated. I suggested swapping the left and right channels previously, as it is simple and will cause the Audio Path display to show with all DSP applied.

But maybe I need to look at that separately, because resampling doesn't make the Audio Path display for DLNA playback either.

[wer]

Actually I had already told him that in that previous thread.

Obviously great minds think alike.

But it doesn't matter what he does with Volume Leveling and other DSP settings, if those settings aren't being applied to DLNA playback.

Exactly.  I don't think they were, as his mode wasn't forcing the transcoding.  I told him to fix that. With his settings I think the transcoding would have only been happening if his renderer was extremely lame.  I don't know the details of the renderer he has though.

Sorry if it looked like I was stepping on your toes.

Nonsense, if you're going to take the DLNA problems by all means have at it.  I told him what should work, but if it's going to degenerate into probing the compatibility needs of his renderer I'll gladly bow out. Not my cup of tea.

I hadn't replied because I was still waiting for his mentioned-but-not-included screenshot, as you noted.

[Shasta Mike]

Actually I had already told him that in that previous thread. I was a little frustrated to see in his image above that he hadn't made that change, and also that he was pursuing the problem that he had via another method. i.e. Adjusting the R128 field.

  Well, actually, I have other problems and I was not trying to fix the previous one with the R128 field.  I happened to run into that feature in another thread and thought it might fix a different issue I have with some low volume tracks not No Volume tracks like you were helping me with.

Yes, msojka, I'm talking about you.

Even though it seems to me you are not happy with me for some reason, it is only because you are assuming things that are not true, which may be my fault and I apologize if so.  Regardless, I take no offense because discussing things in forums is difficult and I Really Appreciate Your Help and normally have a thick skin.

All that aside, I went back to JRiver and apparently it just needed some more time because now when I checked Audio Path, I am seeing this - see picture.  It seems that the functionality is now engaged! 

Again, thank you very much for your help and patience and willingness to work with someone who is not so technically knowledgeable.  I have learned a lot about JRiver I did not understand before and it is making sense to me. 

[RoderickGI]

Fair enough msojka. Sorry for being grumpy. It is just that some people try to fix too many things at once, and try strange workarounds, which makes helping much harder.

Ironically, while test playing some FLAC files via DLNA earlier I had some play silently. But it was just because I had been making many changes to DLNA and MC got confused.

All that aside, I went back to JRiver and apparently it just needed some more time because now when I checked Audio Path, I am seeing this - see picture.  It seems that the functionality is now engaged!

Well that is excellent news. Did you do anything other than leave it playing for a while? Were perhaps the file formats different when it worked?

Exactly.  I don't think they were, as his mode wasn't forcing the transcoding.  I told him to fix that. With his settings I think the transcoding would have only been happening if his renderer was extremely lame.

Actually, that setting is required by design.

20.0.27 (10/20/2014)
11. NEW: Added dsp studio to DLNA server audio advanced options. REQUIRES the output format to be set to "Specified Output Format".

I didn't know that, and it was buried way back in the Release Notes.

[wer]

Actually, that setting is required by design.

20.0.27 (10/20/2014)
11. NEW: Added dsp studio to DLNA server audio advanced options. REQUIRES the output format to be set to "Specified Output Format".

I didn't know that, and it was buried way back in the Release Notes.

Well actually I did know that, which is why I told him to change his mode.  But leave it to you to dig through 6 years of release notes to find the documentation for it!  You just have this thing about being thorough don't you? 

And someone needs to note that you got grumpy before I did this time!    Certainly not the norm!

[Shasta Mike]

Well that is excellent news. Did you do anything other than leave it playing for a while? Were perhaps the file formats different when it worked?

I am only playing FLAC files. The only other thing that happened was the router went out for a few seconds which caused playing to the DLNA to stop and I had to restart the DLNA device.  Then about 30 minutes after that I decided to try gong through your suggestions again and moused over the audio path first and saw that it was working.  Sorry - wish there was a clear smoking gun here - maybe the restart of MC after the router going down did it. 

[Shasta Mike]

Did you do anything other than leave it playing for a while?

By accident I may have discovered something that may be helpful to you.  My router went out again (have a service call with ISP for tomorrow) which has been happening 3-4 times a day.  When the router goes out, MC crashes 90% of the time.  Today, the router went out, MC crashed, and when it came up, the audio path was blank again.  I had to get MC back up, Exit MC. and launch again. Then the audiopath was working again.

I think there is some MC behavior to disable certain functions after crashing and maybe that has been the cause of some of my issues.   

Also, I entered a observation about the crashing (bug?) after the router going down in the thread on the latest .69 release. 

Edit: after another router disconnect, though MC did not crash this time, once I restarted the DLNA device, DSP was not showing again in Audio Path.  Again, I exited MC and restarted which then enabled DSP to start functioning again and displaying in Audio Path.  So, this behavior seems to be consistent with router failure causing the problem initially. 

[RoderickGI]

Thanks for the additional information msojki.

I don't know what the issue is, but I think it is related to how DLNA finds devices, which takes some time so doesn't happen immediately on restart of MC. It sounded like it was the changes MC makes after recovering from a crash until your last edit. So maybe the Audio Path would start working if allowed the time, rather than just restart MC.

That's no fun having a dying router multiple times a day!

Well actually I did know that, which is why I told him to change his mode.

Well, I knew if set to "Specified output format" it would convert, and hence DSP would be applied. But I didn't know that setting was required to get DSP to be applied to a DLNA stream. In fact if DSP has been set, audio conversion should be forced no matter what. Otherwise it sort of defeats the purpose of adding DSP to DLNA Servers. I guess it provides the option of quickly enabling and disabling DSP, just by changing that setting. A design choice.

I also thought audio conversion should happen if "Specified output format only when necessary" and the file type was listed. But it doesn't seem to. That could be because the DLNA device says it can play the format. It's hard to know what DLNA actually does under the covers. Anyway, if conversion was happening, DSP would be applied and the Audio Path should display, which is what I was aiming for, as it shows something of what MC is doing for playback via DLNA... Which could then ultimately answer the question from the other thread as to why some tracks play silently for msojki.

But leave it to you to dig through 6 years of release notes to find the documentation for it!  You just have this thing about being thorough don't you? 

Yes.  I pick my battles/issues to address, and dive deep. Well, I enjoy that more than just posting a link to a Wiki that a user hasn't bothered to actually search for or read.

And someone needs to note that you got grumpy before I did this time!    Certainly not the norm!

Oh I can get grumpy. I just usually keep it to myself. But lockdown, grumpy, I let it out. I knew I was. Nobody got hurt. 

[RoderickGI]

Okay, now I am confused.

I just did some more testing. I changed the setting to "Specified output format only when necessary" after stopping playback, then played to JRiver for Android as a DLNA Renderer. DSP was applied and the Audio Path showed it.

This has not worked before, and contradicts the Release Notes. Sigh. Maybe JRiver for Android is a special case, as it isn't a true DLNA Renderer, but a MC instance. I'll have to try with a different Renderer.

EDIT:
No. It is working with BubbleUPnP on the phone as well.