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[Shike]

Greetings,

With the new video renderer being developed for MC29 I thought this may be a good time to bring this up again.  Some media (anime specifically) often makes use of subtitles that may have effects/animation added.  Is there anyway to bring in support for a new renderer like XySubFilter?

Thank you.

[Hendrik]

We use libass for anime subtitles, which is faster then XySubFilter in my experience, and should be compatible with about all of those subtitles as well. We don't plan to offer any replacements for that, as its rather deeply integrated into Media Center.

If you have any anime subtitles that dont work in  MC28 or MC29, please let us know, with a sample of the subtitles if possible.

[Shike]

We use libass for anime subtitles, which is faster then XySubFilter in my experience, and should be compatible with about all of those subtitles as well. We don't plan to offer any replacements for that, as its rather deeply integrated into Media Center.

If you have any anime subtitles that dont work in  MC28 or MC29, please let us know, with a sample of the subtitles if possible.

It's not that they don't work, but may use animations and effects that the integrated renderer will ignore from past experience.  Wasn't sure if the move to a new video renderer would loosen the integration but it appears not.

Thanks anyway.

[Hendrik]

I can only repeat myself, but if any subtitle features are not working properly, please give us an example file so we can look at it.
I'm also not sure when you last tried, but in MC26 already we entirely replaced ASS subtitle support.

[bogdanbz]

I do have such files where the subtitle renderer in JRiver is so slow on drawing full screen subs the image gets stuck on some frame while the sound is going on. In fact, it's not possible to view the video content for that segment without disabling the subs. (AMD 5900x & RTX 3090)

How can such files be provided to you? They're remuxes of m2ts blu-ray filies with subs added in. I imagine just providing the ass file and fonts and pointing the timestamps where these kind of problems occur should be enough? Any file sharing service would do or is there some special place to upload the samples?

[Hendrik]

A lot of work already went into subtitle performance with JRVR for MC29, if these problems persist once you can test with MC29, then a sample and all required attachments would be appreciated.

[bogdanbz]

Well, here it is, a 12 seconds mkv fragment (89 MB I'm afraid). I kept the video, but removed the audio: https://files.catbox.moe/plcb8h.mkv

I recommend to first play it without subtitles enabled, just to see what is the video content, and then play it with the subs enabled (the video gets stuck on a frame when playing with subs enabled).

Btw, this file also shows a bug in MC28: the subtitle track is not visible in the context menu Subs submenu, although the subtitles are rendered, and can be turned off by selecting "Off" in that submenu. I used the latest mkvtoolnix to make this sample, by the way.

(JRiver is confugured to use JRVR with Jinc scaling for both luma and chroma to 4K resolution at 60 Hz, for SDR 10 bit output; no advanced scaling enabled, no SuperRes, no dithering)

[Hendrik]

Thanks, this subtitle is definitely still a bit slow, although already much better then in MC28. Going to work on some more improvements.
The reason its so slow is that this one scene has over 10000 individual subtitle elements. But I'll see what I can do about that.

[bogdanbz]

Thanks for looking into it. I believe one trick used by XySubFilter and madVR is to render the subtitles at a lower resolution instead of the actual screen resolution (the max resolution at which to render the subtitles can be configured in the subtitle filter settings), and let the renderer scale the resulting bitmaps to the target resolution with the usual scaling algorithm.

[Hendrik]

Definitely considered such an option before, and for 4K playback it may be required to play a variety of very complex subtitles. The subtitle rendering alone takes ~25ms now at 1080p after some optimizations, and that is before we do any further processing to get it actually onto the image (which is the real bottleneck now that is being worked on).

[Shike]

I'm also not sure when you last tried, but in MC26 already we entirely replaced ASS subtitle support.

Huh, well it was definitely before that then.  I had setup external with MPC-HC due to the subtitles but now it may finally make sense to roll-back to the internal player for jriver - never realized this was addressed after some testing.

Thank you for the info.

[Hendrik]

Just to round off the previous performance question, the work to improve ASS rendering performance is now complete and I can run the linked subtitle above just fine in 4K on my HTPC, which has a somewhat older CPU - although pretty high-end (for the time) (its a Intel i7 7700).

Additionally, a new option to limit the subtitle render resolution is available that can help on weaker CPUs with a relatively small impact on subtitle sharpness.

Note:
These experiences apply to JRVR. While performance with madVR will also have improved, the most significant change requires full renderer support, which madVR does not provide.
The maximum subtitle resolution setting applies to both JRVR and madVR, however.

[bogdanbz]

Thank you very much for your work!