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Author Topic: OT, UK / Austrailia  (Read 2069 times)

konicky

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OT, UK / Austrailia
« on: March 01, 2003, 10:05:12 am »

Hi there,
will be moving to Austrailia soon. Will a UK spec computer work over there? Thanks in advance :)
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KingSparta

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2003, 10:31:34 am »

I don't see why not, not sure what the Voltage Is But they have converters for that.

I ran US Built computers In Germany And Korea
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Phydeaux

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2003, 10:32:19 pm »

Yes. Voltage is almost universal world wide except for the US who do everything with half the potential difference...

(they run of 110V whereas the rest of the world uses 220V). Not 100% true, but close enough.

You'll have to buy a new plug. And get used to finding where the $ sign is on your keyboard! ;)
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Phydeaux

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2003, 10:34:41 pm »

Also going in your favour is that Australia is an original British colony.

BTW: Don't ever call an australian a penal-colonist. ;)
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KingSparta

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2003, 02:26:48 am »

well the US should have used 220, you can use smaller wires due to you would use lower amps and that brings cost down.

also with voltage at a 110-120 you have more voltage loss on a run of wire than you would on a higher voltage.
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MachineHead

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2003, 04:48:15 am »

Quote
well the US should have used 220, you can use smaller wires due to you would use lower amps and that brings cost down.

What? This isn't necessarily true. The wire sizes may actually be larger due to the effects of heat from resistance. Or, I suspect, at least the same size from a safety perspective. While it's true that motors and such that draw heavier loads would definately benefit from 220v most of the time, average household appliances wouldn't have any need to be pumped up to this voltage.

Example: Would your computer work better with 220v? No. It converts voltage down to something like 9-12 volts anyway. How about a hair dryer? I don't think that would help get your hair dried any quicker. And if you dropped that sucker into the tub, you might end up with a hair style that just doesn't suit you. It's bad enough that people are so inattentive they do this in the first place. You probably cannot buy one (hairdryer) nowadays without a GFCI built into the cord.

110-120 is effective for most typical needs you'll ever run into.
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JimH

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2003, 04:52:57 am »

Quote

110-120 is effective for most typical needs you'll ever run into.

I'm casting my vote for 110.  220 is a lame idea and I hope you don't expect to implement it here.
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KingSparta

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2003, 05:17:30 am »

>> What? This isn't necessarily true.
it is true

however conditions that the wires may be under (Heat In the Attic, etc...) and what they are made of may change but the fact is still true.

the higher the voltage the less amps is needed to run a device.

The (U.S.A.) national electric code book spells this out

>> average household appliances wouldn't have any
>> need to be pumped up to this voltage.
you seem to be missing the point, it is not the device that will cost less to run. that will cost the same. it is the loss of power due to the line length from the pole to the device.

For a 10-12 size wire at 120 volts at 100 feet the loss of voltage is about 1 to 1.5 volts at the other end of the 100 foot length.

this is why all lines run from pole to pole are at higher voltage, the lower the amps the less loss of power there willl be.

one of the first power sources from home to home (here in the USA) was DC power that was high amps and low voltage. but due to the loss of power in the line it's self that was droped in favor of AC power with high voltage and lower amps.

it is the amps that Require thicker cables (costs money) and since the amps will heat up the wire loss of power from heat generation.

the lower you can get the amps (within reason) the better it is.

JimH we will wire your house for 160 Volts

However I do feel we will switch in time to 220-240 volts. You can see it now. Most products are made now with voltage sensors and will adjust the footage from 110-120 to 220-240 when needed, or there will be a switch in the back of the product.
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zevele10

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2003, 07:59:00 am »

Do you mean you are on 110 in USA?
I would not use the very few slang i know and ask you if you ae AC/DC.................
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KingSparta

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2003, 08:23:13 am »

Cars Are DC
Homes Are AC
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MachineHead

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2003, 08:41:35 am »

Quote

it is true

Concede to this. My apology offered. Checked with local (retired) electrician and he confirms this point. His thoughts on using 220v for homes are: it isn't needed. Theoretically, you could do the same 408-440v and drop wires sizes down into the 18ga range. With amp draws halved again. This is definately a bad idea.

On other notes however:

The US dropped 220v wiring for most homes in the seventies. Usual application was a three wire run and split for 110-120 per leg. Deemed dangerous because of lower latentcy between the sides. In other words, you get hit by this stuff there is a much greater risk of death. Plain and simple fact. It is now illegal to wire homes in this manner. It is also unlikely to be brought back anytime soon. People are dangerous enough on their own without throwing in some extra voltage to boot.

Have you ever made a simple mistake with power tool? I did once. Being in my line of work involves using tools that are, or can be, lethal of their own accord. Cutting a 2x piece one day, I set the saw down without looking and had the cord, which always tends to loop where you don't want it to, get caught in the blade. First the inertial forces of nature take over and try to make it cartwheel. Until the cord jambs the blade. At almost the same instant, there is a crack from the cord being severed with the blade. Better 110-120v then 220v in this case.

Another example:

Twice this has happened to me. Extension cords that we use at work are sometimes prone to slightly pulling apart where joined. Not usually a big deal until you drag that same seperation over a steel track used in steel stud framing. The leg of the track sticking up is thin enough to fit in this gap and make contact causing instant short circuit and welding phenomenon. 220v used in this cause could have been quite dangerous if someone where to be touching another stud somewhere down the line.

Have also seen a guy standing on a scaffold (with wheels) move it without looking and have it jerk 277v wire out of the wirenuts and make contact just mere inches from his body. Though not residential in any way, the sound and flash that resulted convinced him to use more prudence when rolling it around after that. This one used up one of his nine lives on that day.

And not so common anymore:

When I first started doing this kind of thing, early 80's, GFCI protection was not as strictly enforced as it is now. I can recall numerous occasions when conditions were wet, grab the ol' saw, squeeze the trigger and get zapped. Drop the saw, and hope it doesn't land on your foot, leg, or whatever else is in its path. 220v would have been much more dangerous here as well. Just from the shock standpoint alone.

I still am not convinced that the US will, or should, step up to something will end up killing, or injuring, more people than what it does now. Where's the cost savings in that?
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KingSparta

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2003, 09:04:02 am »

Quote
His thoughts on using 220v for homes are: it isn't needed. Theoretically, you could do the same 408-440v and drop wires sizes down into the 18ga range.


It is true that Homes do not have 220-240, and it is 110-120 lines and when you have two it adds up to 220-240.

For your Stove, Dryer, and Heaters

Most water heaters are really 110-120 and use two thermostats to control the upper and lower elements. I don't think that maybe true in all cases.

Sure it may never happen, but it would standardize the power between most countries. This would reduce costs to make your TV, Computers, radios and other junk since the Step-Up\Step-Down transformer and other circuits would not be needed. On a case by case bases this does not add up to much but if you add up what it is for the whole country it would be a good sum of money saved.

As I said before Wire is not cheep, and this would cut costs if we in the USA standardized our power system to the rest of the world since most of the world is at 220-240 volts

Also Our Power Cycles are off Germany is 50 Cycles and U.S.A. is 60 this does have an effect on some items with out correcting circuitry

what to talk about 3 Phase motors?

;D
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MachineHead

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2003, 09:21:39 am »

Still not convinced Mark. I live in house that is nearly 100 years old. If I had to upgrade wiring in the future for 220v, it would cost me a small fortune. No savings there.

While it may be true that standardizing electricty would result in goods being produced more cheaply, you will never see a savings from it. Manufacturers still have a bottom line to meet, and they like to see it in black with profit written all over it. Regardless of their savings, it isn't usually passed on to consumers. They charge what people will bear paying.

Quote
Also Our Power Cycles are off Germany is 50 Cycles and U.S.A. is 60 this does have an effect on some items with out correcting circuitry


Good point. Something that the original poster of this may want to also check on.

Quote
what to talk about 3 Phase motors?


Aww, that's easy. They just have one more hamster running in a cage. ;)
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KingSparta

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2003, 10:35:43 am »

I remember the good old days when we converted from Fire to Oil Then To Heat Pumps Whats Next.

The Cave Here Is Nice And Warm.

Since you would never convert to something new I guess your still using fire?

I think a bigger problem right now is when they stop sending out Standard TV waves (Sometime Real Soon), and Only have HDTV I may have to Convert Myself.
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zevele10

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2003, 11:31:37 am »

In Europe , here and all the middle-east and far-east they use 220 and there is not any accident.
I mean not more  than if 110.

Now as someone a bit in your trade , yes i can say that there is danger.
But most of the time because of the gear you use , nothing to do with the voltage {?] [ =110 or 220].
A disk saw is really dangerous , and yes you are right wires a plague. Making it even more dangerous.

One day i cut in a wall where electric wires been.......
The good thing is that the saw stops... And me as well for a few minutes....

Extension cords : first you have now special plugs with kind of clip. But before this ,after having lost one week work in one year i just used to put  some maskentap {?] -i mean the white sticky stuff you put on wood , windows , plinths before you paint- on plug of any extension cords.
To spend one minute to save XXX minutes.

I do not have an opinion about 110 or 220.
Just for me it is a normal thing to have 220 so i am surprised that it is not the case everywhere.

Now , as you say, if you have to wire your new house.....
..... GOOD LUCK.. and play loterie

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Charlemagne 8

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2003, 01:36:36 pm »

Leave it to me to jump into an argument that I am decidedly more ignorant about than anyone else in that argument. I just have a couple of observations and/or questions:
US houses are already wired for 220 ... we just split it at the breaker box and use one side at a time for 110v items and both sides for higher voltage requirements like stoves and clothes dryers. So what are we talking about? Most houses, even old ones, use 12 ga. copper wire, mostly three at a time ... white, black and bare. If we are talking about changing our appliances to 220v and using this same structure, I can see a problem. But if there is a true conversion to 220v, i.e., at the source, wouldn't we use the same wires in the same configuration? My old wires are rated for 600 volts. The breaker box (or fuse box like I have) would need to be modified so you couldn't use two 220 volt sides at once but couldn't the wiring stay the same? A fuse box would be easy ... you have to DECIDE to use two sides at a time. A breaker box would be more complicated but changing the bus bar configuration wouldn't seem to be that expensive. Your fat breakers would become unusable. Maybe you would need all new types of breakers.
Next question:
I believe (I mean that quite literally ... I don't have any facts to go with it) that it's the amps that kill you and not the voltage. Cases in point: An electric fence zaps my dogs (and me if I forget) with 50,000 volts but no amps. We're not dead. I knew a guy that pulled a concrete bucket still hanging from a crane into a 20,000 volt line. He's dead. So, going from possibly mistaken assumptions from these observances, why would 110 volts with 20 amps be any less dangerous than 220 volts with 10 amps? Is the reduction in amperage required by switching to 220v less dramatic than that?

I realize that my logic may be going the route of "God is Love, Love is blind, Ray Charles is blind, so Ray Charles must be God" so please set me straight if necessary.

CVIII
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MachineHead

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2003, 01:53:33 pm »

Quote
If we are talking about changing our appliances to 220v and using this same structure, I can see a problem.

This is what I assumed CVIII.

Quote
So, going from possibly mistaken assumptions from these observances, why would 110 volts with 20 amps be any less dangerous than 220 volts with 10 amps?

Not sure. But I am sure if you get zotted by 110 versus 220, you more than likely will be annoyed by the 110, and picking yourself off the floor with 220.

Quote
But if there is a true conversion to 220v, i.e., at the source, wouldn't we use the same wires in the same configuration?

I don't think Knob and Tube would work then. This would be my problem in changing over.
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KingSparta

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2003, 01:59:01 pm »

Quote
wouldn't we use the same wires in the same configuration?

Brakers, And Plugs, Water heater would need new elements, and thermostats.

You would need to change Lights and if they were floresent they would need to be completly replaced (or change the balist) and floresent lights

Quote
why would 110 volts with 20 amps be any less dangerous than 220 volts with 10 amps?

It's not, Dead is dead Unless you beleave in Reincarnation and you can comeback as a 220volt computer and take a free trip to Austrailia.
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BigAl

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Re: OT, UK / Austrailia
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2003, 03:43:01 pm »

Quote
Hi there,
will be moving to Austrailia soon. Will a UK spec computer work over there? Thanks in advance :)


Yes, it will work with the right adapter.  Be prepared for some flack given the recent performances of your national cricket and football teams - we're on a roll over here 8).  Which city are you headed for?
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