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[jleerigby]

I'm planning on relegating my traditional tower PC from the lounge to an upstairs bedroom and building an HTPC to hook up to my AMP and TV controlled by Girder.  I expect this is something that loads of forum members have done very successfully so I'm looking for any advice you can give me.

I want to keep all my MP3 files on the existing system as I've just recently purchased a 250 GB HDD for them and don't really want to have to remove this and put in in my HTPC.  This would be too much hassle reinstalling everything on my main pc and the drive would probably be too noisy for the HTPC.  

So how do I play the files on my HTPC?  
Should I run Media Server on the main and MC client on the HTPC?  or would it be better to just share the files and the libarary over the network?  Or is there another way?

If I use Media Server / Client can I also run Media Centre as normal on the Media Server?

Can you perform all normal functions on an MC client (tagging etc) or are there restrictions on what you can do?

Any advice or examples of your own set up would be really welcome.

[Mastiff]

I have one computer with all files and then the three other computers that I use for playback (I just finished an almost totally quiet pc for the living room) have those three partitions as network drives. Works perfectly. I do tagging on the computer that has the files (usually via Remote Administrator) and then do a backup of the library. Then I restore the library to the other computers. Easy, efficient and safe (with a backup of everything, of course...).

[jleerigby]

Thanks Mastiff.  Any chance of the low down on the pc you just built for your living room.  I'm looking for ultra quiet too.  Also what case did you use? Accent?

[jleerigby]

Sorry...More questions:

That sounds like a neat solution - do your 3 playback pc's all map to the drive on your server that contains the files?

But why is this better than using Media Server?  I'm not sure your solution would work for me as I would do some tagging in the living room (mainly adding ratings via remote) and other tagging on the main pc.  Would this rule out your method?

What's remote administrator - is this used to access the main pc from one of the 3 playback pc's?

[sraymond]

I have one computer with all files and then the three other computers that I use for playback (I just finished an almost totally quiet pc for the living room) have those three partitions as network drives. Works perfectly. I do tagging on the computer that has the files (usually via Remote Administrator) and then do a backup of the library. Then I restore the library to the other computers. Easy, efficient and safe (with a backup of everything, of course...).

Do you have the networked drives mapped to the same drive letter on each of the four comptuers?  I went the UNC route...  but I hate having to remember when I import - because MC doesn't recognize that a UNC path ("\\Workstation1\c$\") and a drive letter ("c:\") are one and the same.  It will reimport the media (creating duplicates) if I search a drive letter vice UNC path.  In hindsight, I should have mapped the media drive as the same letter on all computers.

I use a backup program to nightly copy the library and associated files automatically to all computers - this makes sure that things like thumbnails, etc. make the transition as well.

It sure would be great to have a multiple-access database...  media server has never performed well for me with video.

Scott-

[jleerigby]

I use a backup program to nightly copy the library and associated files automatically to all computers - this makes sure that things like thumbnails, etc. make the transition as well.

So you don't use media server either Scott?  Why not?

[sraymond]

So you don't use media server either Scott?  Why not?

When I first tried, it was with an 802.11b wireless connection...  and performance wasn't very good.  JimH convinced me that this might be the problem, so I ended up crawling in the attic to pull a Cat5 cable to the living room.  After *lots* of sweat and "insulation itch", I found that performance was better with 100 Mbps ethernet - but it still wouldn't stream the video properly.  It wanted to download the whole video before starting to play.

I asked for help with the streaming video problem, but didn't get a response.  All-in-all, it seemed much easier to just copy the whole all the library files and use the UNC path to the media files (so that it worked for both computers).

Maybe I'll try media server again, but I'm pretty happy with my current setup.

Scott-

[jleerigby]

Personally, I would stick another big drive in the new pc and use some synchronizing software. That way, you can run the files locally and you have redundantcy of your files. I don't know about you, but I don't have an easy way to back up 200+ gigs of music and this method gives me a little bit of comfort knowing all the data exists on two pc's.

I already have a back up drive in a removeable caddy.  That gives me extra piece of mind as I back up once a month or so and take the drive off site.  Then I'm protected against fire / theft.  Sounds a bit paranoid but everyone knows how much work goes into ripping and tagging a big library.  

The thing that puts me off maintaining 2 copies of the file is that I'll update tags from both pc's so I think it'll get complicated keeping things in snyc.

Scott - I see that your issue with Media Server was Streaming Video.  I don't do video, just music and I've never done networking either, just a standalone pc so it's all very new to me.  I am right in thinking that I won't have an issue streaming music from the server to the living room down a 25 meter LAN cable?

[Mastiff]

I use my backup in the car...  

Remote Administrator is like Symantec pcAnywhere, only slimline and much slicker. And I have never used media server, never even thought about it since my system is mainly zone oriented, not pc oriented. In other words I almost never touch the pc that plays the track directly, everything is done with NetRemote or IR remotes.

As for the new, quiet HTPC for the living room, you can see it with specifications on my webpage, here's a direct link to the living room zone: ]http://home.powertech.no/mastiff/Zone1.htm

sraymond, yes. The play list drive is D:, most of the genres are on E:, heavy metal, rock and hard rock are on F: and compilation albums, single tracks and audio books are on F: - that way I always know where everything is.

[sraymond]

I don't do video, just music and I've never done networking either, just a standalone pc so it's all very new to me.  I am right in thinking that I won't have an issue streaming music from the server to the living room down a 25 meter LAN cable?

Audio will be fine.  If you're OK with the limitations of media server (i.e. you can't edit the library), then it's probably the easiest way to go.  I'd certainly recommend you try it as a first step.

Scott-

[jleerigby]

(i.e. you can't edit the library),

Oh dear.  That sounds like a problem.  Does that mean I can't do tagging on the client?  Like adding ratings?

[sraymond]

Oh dear.  That sounds like a problem.  Does that mean I can't do tagging on the client?  Like adding ratings?

Yes...  I'm pretty sure that's true.  If not, I imagine someone will jump in soon enough to correct me.

So far as I know, the only way to tag on two separate machines is to share the same physical library.  This is considered to have a certain risk because the database is not multiple-access-enabled.  Should you have the library open on two computers at the same time, corruption is a possibiilty.  Nonetheless, I never encountered a problem with this.

Scott-

[jleerigby]

Thanks for your help Scott.  Given that my requirements are:

* One set of music files that can be played on either machine
* One library that is always kept in sync and reflects the current state of the files / database.
* Ability to access the library and update it from either machine (though not necessarily simultaneously)

I think this has narrowed me down to one option:

* Set up the HTPC so it can share the drive on the main PC that contains the files.  
* Do the same with the library.  
* Don't run MC on both machines at the same time

Correct me if I'm wrong but this would work and be safe?  So, for example I could run MC on my HTPC, do some tagging, close MC, open it up on my main PC and it would show the new tags?

[sraymond]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this would work and be safe?  So, for example I could run MC on my HTPC, do some tagging, close MC, open it up on my main PC and it would show the new tags?

This is what I did for a while...  and I had no problems whatsoever.  Well, I did forget a bunch of times to make sure the library was closed on the other computer, but it didn't create any corruption.

You'd just have to make sure that all library paths are UNC or make sure the shared drive has the same letter on both machines.

Scott-

[jleerigby]

Thanks again Scott.

You'd just have to make sure that all library paths are UNC

Don't know what this means but..

..or make sure the shared drive has the same letter on both machines.

I'll definately do this.

[sraymond]

You'd just have to make sure that all library paths are UNC

Don't know what this means but..

If your computer name is "ComputerName", then the folder "C:\Music" can be referenced as "\\ComputerName\c$\Music".  This lets you access the folder on any machine without having to map a drive.

This comes in handy when you have stuff on your "C" drive that you want to share on a network.  You can't map it to the same letter on a remote machine (it already has a "C" drive!), so UNC saves the day.

Of course, it's probably best not to put media on your "C" drive...  but I haven't gotten around to creating another partition.

Scott-

[Shadowen]

I run all my media from a single PC with a large hard drive.

I use the Media Server for streaming to all of my clients (3 other PC's and a Tivo) and do all my library editing from the Media Server.  This works the best for me and all I have to backup is a single machine.

My only major complaint, and this is not for JRiver, is that Tivo doesn't let me stream my home movies yet.  I am hopeful that with the recent Tivo DVD burner http://www.pioneerburner.com that streaming video is in the near future.

As far as HTPC advice, you will want to make hardware choices based on your ultimate goal.  Is for digital media editing? Digital media playback? Games? A PVR? All of the above?

Video editing will need a lot a RAM.  Games will require a really good video card and CPU.  A PVR (tivo-like functionality) will require a big hard drive.

The more things that you will want to do with the machine, the more hardware you will require.  All this comes at the cost of power consumption and heat dissipation.  This means bigger power supply and noisy fans.

Ideally, you will want a good video card with DV output for a HDTV and a good sound card with 5.1 or digital audio outputs for integration with your receiver.

Ideally, your Media Server should use a SCSI drive array configured with RAID5 for maximum security and reliability.  But this can be expensive, you could do an IDE drive array for less money (and performance).

There is a decent article about this on the Extreme Tech website http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,488627,00.asp that might be worth a read for someone starting out a new project.  At least it points out some of the things to think about.

-Shadowen

[jleerigby]

You'd just have to make sure that all library paths are UNC

Don't know what this means but..

If your computer name is "ComputerName", then the folder "C:\Music" can be referenced as "\\ComputerName\c$\Music".  This lets you access the folder on any machine without having to map a drive.

This comes in handy when you have stuff on your "C" drive that you want to share on a network.  You can't map it to the same letter on a remote machine (it already has a "C" drive!), so UNC saves the day.

Of course, it's probably best not to put media on your "C" drive...  but I haven't gotten around to creating another partition.

Scott-

Thankfully my music is all on it's own partition on D.  The library (.jmd file) is in the default place in JRiver's program files directory so I guess I'll move that to a directory on D and share the D drive with the HTPC.

Amwosa - Thanks for your advice.  I'll look at that article to get some ideas.  I've ruled out Media Server 'cos I won't be able to update tags from the client.  Whilst I'll do all the ripping and tagging on the server, the massive ongoing job of adding ratings will be done via the client with the help of Girder.  I'll mainly use my HTPC for music and visualisations.  My current thinking on the hardware is as follows:

I'll probably use my existing ATI 9600 pro and 1GB PC2700 DDR RAM.  I have a spare XP2200+ CPU so I'll use that too.  I have an Audigy 2 sound card in my main pc now so I'll use that in the HTPC and revert to on board audio in the main PC.  As I'll keep all the mp3s on the main pc the HTPC will only need one 40GB HDD for the system drive and 1 ATAPI CD-ROM so I hope that means I can use an Ultra Quiet 300W PSU.  This is the case I've got my eye on.  Now to read that article...

[sraymond]

Thankfully my music is all on it's own partition on D.  The library (.jmd file) is in the default place in JRiver's program files directory so I guess I'll move that to a directory on D and share the D drive with the HTPC.

That won't be necessary.  You can use the UNC path just to get to the library.  And once in the library, you're fine because the [Filename] matches both the local and remote drive letter ("D").

Scott-

[jleerigby]

Thankfully my music is all on it's own partition on D.  The library (.jmd file) is in the default place in JRiver's program files directory so I guess I'll move that to a directory on D and share the D drive with the HTPC.

That won't be necessary.  You can use the UNC path just to get to the library.  And once in the library, you're fine because the [Filename] matches both the local and remote drive letter ("D").

Scott-

So to point at the library called 'Main Library.jmd' on my server from my HTPC would I open library manager and edit the Default option changing the name to 'Main Library' and the path to the following?

\\ComputerName\c$\Program Files\J River\Media Center\Data

[sraymond]

So to point at the library called 'Main Library.jmd' on my server from my HTPC would I open library manager and edit the Default option changing the name to 'Main Library' and the path to the following?

\\ComputerName\c$\Program Files\J River\Media Center\Data

You got it!  This presumes that your ComputerName really is "ComputerName" and you have the hidden share "C$" (which XP creates automatically).

Scott-