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[TimB]

I see we're now sending the Marines in to police Haiti.

A major Republican issue during the 2000 election was that we should stop sending our armed forces to police situations in other countries.  It seems we're doing this more rather than less.

I'm the first to not be dogmatic in these situations.  Often we find that in the real world situations change and that we have to change or adjust our agenda.  However are there folks here who recognize their own flip-flop on this issue?  Or maybe you think the Bush adminstration is wrong to get involved?  I'm curious about people's internal thought processes on this issue.

I'll quickly note that I'm sure there were similar changes during Clinton's term about commitments vs reality.

-=Tim=-

[KingSparta]

At Least The UN Said It Was OK, Oh Wait, They Did Ok It For Iraq Also.

I Seen On TV This Morning Canada Also Invaded Haiti, Maybe There Is Hope For Them.

[TimB]

But how do you feel about the action itself KS?  Is it something you think is a good idea or a bad one?

I'm honestly curious to know where people are coming from on this.

-=Tim=-

[fex]

Did you see the chaos over there yesterday?. Don't think it's a bad thing. There is a some sort of 'vacuum'.

Just for the records: The UN didn't gave the O.K. (meaning 'Zero Killed') for any intervention in Iraq.

[DocLotus]

Hi Tim;

Here we go again

Generally, a good idea.

Like it or not, we are the unofficial Policemen of the World

We are the only country with any real power anymore & as such we can not sit ideally by & watch anarchy take over in other countries especially ones so close to us.

I'm sure the Haitians want us there as the average Haitian citizen is sick of all the fighting & they do not seem to be able to stop it themselves.

It is not very neighborly of use to simply sit by & let them kill each other when we have the power to stop it.

Many Haitians would love it if we would simply take over the country & bring peace, stability, & some resemblance of prosperity to the island.  Once a good government is installed, up & running, we then could leave them to govern themselves; something like we are trying to do in Iraq.

Some people want to go it alone, stay out of other people's business (and countries) & to be isolationist.  This has never worked for us because we seem to care about the state of other countries.

Before World War One we were truly isolationist but we simply could not sit back any longer & see our long time ally, Great Britain, mired down in a bloody never ending conflict with Germany.  The same thing happened in WWII.

Since WWI we have been a world power & like it or not the unofficial Policemen of the World.

Policemen have responsibilities & ours seems to be to try to keep anarchy & despots to a minimum in the hope that someday the world will be a better place to live, especially in the countries that are having major problems due to incompetence, corruption, & in general bad government.

[fex]

...It is not very neighborly of use to simply sit by & let them kill each other when we have the power to stop it...

O.k. If you'll do nothing you'll have them in front of your door in the next few years. Or should I say in little boats on your coast?  As seen before?

Policemen of the world? Or just of US?

[Dan Da Man]

I kinda liked how early in American history they had a policy of not meddling in others affairs.  If they came and bugged us, we'd fight.  If they left us alone, they could fight all they wanted amongst themselves.

Of course, back then it took a month or two to get as fast as possible from here to Europe.  Nowadays our involvement is mostly in "Economic interest".

Sometimes I long for the good old days.

Dan "da Man"

[Rob L]

"unofficial policemen"? That's a funny term. Surely the normal word for that is "vigilante"?

[fex]

I kinda liked how early in American history they had a policy of not meddling in others affairs.  If they came and bugged us, we'd fight.  If they left us alone, they could fight all they wanted amongst themselves...
Sometimes I long for the good old days.
Dan "da Man"

Sorry, who is 'they'? I'm not one of them. Like 99 percent of the rest of the world (yup, there are a few others). What are you talking about?

Besides that fact: The last time they were on your side (did you miss it somehow?).

[TimB]

I'm not trying to incite an argument here.  I'm just interested in hearing opinions where situations have clearly changed from those that were expected.

I like Clinton's policies, I don't like the fact he lied.  There I said it.  It didn't hurt!!

Now I'm assuming that on the other side of the political people might disagree with their own people or have changed their opinions.  Or I'm totally missing something, entirely possible.  

I'm not so interested in hearing from those that want to slam the USA or Bush, more interested in those that support him.

OK?  

-=Tim=-

[fex]

Who is Bush?

[KingSparta]

I kinda liked how early in American history they had a policy of not meddling in others affairs.

Allot of people feel that way until they are the ones who are attacked (France Germany, etc...) About the early 1940's they changed there mind and wanted the US to help.

Lessons learned will be learned again.


A Bit Of Smooth Jazz, Nice And Easy

Listening to: 'I'm Calling You' from 'Ripcast 1.9' by 'Phyllis Hyman' on Media Center 10

[TimB]

Never mind I guess.



-=Tim=-

[LonWar]

I Seen On TV This Morning Canada Also Invaded Haiti, Maybe There Is Hope For Them.

Did you have a little to much to drink before this post??  

The only place that Canada can invade is the Prime Ministers house....  

[Charlemagne 8]

I kinda liked how early in American history they had a policy of not meddling in others affairs.

That's called Isolationism. We abandoned that around 1913. We tried it again shortly after but Pearl Harbor changed our minds. 9/11 again removed any stirrings in that direction.

I don't like the idea that the US needs to get involved to stop people from doing terrible things to each other. That doesn't change the fact that it seems to be necessary to get involved.

Our involvement in Viet Nam, Korea, Afghanistan and Iraq are somewhat suspect in that there was oil (or the potential of it) involved. But I'm a lover of Conspiracies. I think the CIA killed Kennedy and Martin Luther King had himself assassinated. So I'm a nut. So what?

That being said, I believe going into Haiti is necessary and a good move on Bush's part (I'm a staunch Democrat). The situation could lead to a "blood bath" very easily. I wish we had gotten involved in Rwanda -- remember the Hutus and the Tutsis? Same scenario.

And going back to Conspiracy Theories: I heard on the news that Aristide is claiming that he never resigned, he was kidnapped by the Americans and forcibly moved to Africa. Even I don't believe that.

CVIII

[Rob L]

Eh? What does 9/11 have to do with isolationism?

[Charlemagne 8]

Eh? What does 9/11 have to do with isolationism?

Same thing that Pearl Harbor did. When we're attacked, we don't sit on our hands and wait for the next one to come to us. We go out into the world and try to stop the next one at the source.

Jeez! I feel like such a Hawk! When did that happen?
Oh, yeah. Sept. 11, 2001.

CVIII

[KingSparta]

Eh? What does 9/11 have to do with isolationism?

Same thing that Pearl Harbor did. When we're attacked, we don't sit on our hands and wait for the next one to come to us. We go out into the world and try to stop the next one at the source.

Jeez! I feel like such a Hawk! When did that happen?
Oh, yeah. Sept. 11, 2001.

CVIII

C8 you sound more like a republican

"Come Into The Light"

Listening to: 'Exorcist Theme (Tubular Bells)' from 'Halloween Horror Movie Themes' by 'Mike Oldfield' on Media Center 10

[fex]

I see, I'll never get an answer to my questions...

[ph_bradley]

but given you are currently invading countries that effectively posed no threat to you, this policy of not sitting on your hands may well have generated more hatred and therefore ENSURED future attacks.

[Rob L]

The trouble is, 9/11 was about the US, not 'the rest of the world'; to avoid being isolationist would require proactive interest in the rest of the world, not reaction to one (US-focused) event

[KingSparta]

but given you are currently invading countries that effectively posed no threat to you, this policy of not sitting on your hands may well have generated more hatred and therefore ENSURED future attacks.

France did this back in the 1940's, so germany moved in and basicly used the french as handy wipes untill the US liberated them. So you basicly think we should not have saved france.

[JimH]

I just edited a post above.  It was funny and made me laugh, but it was also bound to insult the people of a great country I won't name.

Please be careful.  The conversation is great.

Thanks.

[KingSparta]

'I'm Sorry' Charted At 01 In 1975

Listening to: 'I'm Sorry' from 'Greatest Country Hits' by 'John Denver'

[Charlemagne 8]

C8 you sound more like a republican

Them's fightin' words!!!

... this policy of not sitting on your hands may well have generated more hatred and therefore ENSURED future attacks

That particular irony has not escaped me. To seriously mangle Voltaire:
I may not agree with the way you go about it but I will defend to the death your right to defend yourself.

i.e. Good idea --- seriously flawed implementation. Now do I sound like a Democrat?

Fex:

Who is Bush?

I see, I'll never get an answer to my questions...

He's the soon to be unre-elected Republican President of the US of A.

CVIII

[KingSparta]

He's the soon to be unre-elected Republican

I Don't think so.

I do think they need to Keep Colin L. Powell from leaving for now (he was my corp comander in fort lewis wash back in the 80's). He is quite liberal but a good man and if he ran for Pres i would go the extra mile to vote for him.

http://www.state.gov/secretary/powell_colin_200.gif

I never liked bush, but i think he has done good for security of the nation.

[Charlemagne 8]

I agree. Powell is one of the VERY few Republicans I would vote for.