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[jgreen]

FWIW, ripping directly to FLAC works fine, whereas MC still cannot convert a WAV that I've just ripped inside MC to FLAC. 

[Matt]

FWIW, ripping directly to FLAC works fine, whereas MC still cannot convert a WAV that I've just ripped inside MC to FLAC. 

Can you convert the same WAV files to APE?  I couldn't reproduce this, but FLAC could be the difference.

Thanks.

[jgreen]

Matt--

APE conversions seem to succeed/fail at the same rate that FLAC conversions do.  I'm beginning to think that there is a file permissions issue hindering saves here, possibly just on my machine if you can't reproduce this.  FWIW:

--Converting FROM WAV to APE or FLAC freezes after 1-10 files.

--Analyzing WAVs has the same failure rate.

--Analyzing FLACs has never failed.

[JimH]

jg,
This is starting to sound like another firewall or virus checker problem.  Reads and/or writes of a lot of data are failing.

Is it a local hard disk?  (Just to rule out drive issues)

[Matt]

Does WAV playback work?  It could be the DirectShow filter for WAV playback is wonky.

[jgreen]

JimH--

I agree a jaundiced eye is warranted, given my recent stunning successes in bug tracking.  Moreover, I'm running out of WAV files to gripe about, as I convert them to FLAC, so eventually we're all going to declare victory and move on.  HOWEVER . . .

I tried playing the files and found no problems.  I tried analyzing them and got to #7 before the program froze AT THE END OF THE TRACK.  When I restarted, none of the replay gains for the preceding tracks had saved.  Just to be sure, I had turned off "Update tags, etc", so that AFAIK it is not a failure to write back tags to an unwilling WAV--or is it? 

Matt, what if the files are corrupt?  Would I still be able to play them?  I went through the track that analysis failed on and found no apparent audio anomalies, and it plays.

I just want to say that even the paranoid have enemies, and even a beta tester of my Mad Skillz can find a valid bug, provided the bug comes crawling to me.  I think it's a bug.  But where?  Where?

[jgreen]

Just tried it again on the same group of WAVs, using v76, and it froze on the first track, at the end of the track. 

[JimH]

Are they on a local hard disk drive?

[jgreen]

Files are on both local (internal) disk and USB drive.  Failures occur more or less equally on both.

[jgreen]

Spookier still, taking a WAV created in MC into the Media Editor, ME is unable to execute a "cut" properly.  Tried cutting the last 10 seconds off a track, ME cut the last minute off.

Took the WAV into an external editor.  No error messages re/WAV file, track cut properly.

[JimH]

Files are on both local (internal) disk and USB drive.  Failures occur more or less equally on both.

Can you try doing a group that is only on the local disk?

[jgreen]

No joy, although I was really hopeful there for a few minutes.  Here are my steps:

--Rip a CD directly to wav on local disc, no analyze, using jriver's new "jg" track lookup method, 100% effective and bomber.

--Select all 10 tracks and analyze.  All 10 tracks succeed.

--Select all 10 tracks and convert to FLAC.  Conversion freezes at the end of the third track.  On inspection, first two tracks converted properly but failed to get renamed in MC for "filetype" and "extension".

--Select remaining eight WAV tracks and convert to APE.  Conversion freezes on second track (fourth overall), again at the end of the track.

[JimH]

--Select all 10 tracks and convert to FLAC.  Conversion freezes at the end of the third track.  On inspection, first two tracks converted properly but failed to get renamed in MC for "filetype" and "extension".

Are both the reads and the writes to the local drive?  And is the library also there?  USB drive completely out of the picture (cover art, etc.)

If so, my next suspect is a virus checker.

[jgreen]

--Using the same CD as previous, I rip in MC directly to WAV on my SYSTEM drive (C), the location of the MC library and all related settings, etc.

--Using an external program (DB-something), I create converted FLAC copies of the WAV files in the same folder.  I import these into MC.

--In MC, I select the FLAC files and analyze.  All are successful.

--In MC, I select the WAV tracks and analyze.  Analysis freezes on the third file.

--After restarting MC, I select the FLAC files and convert to APE.  All tracks convert successfully.

--In MC, I select the WAV files (wherein analysis had failed on the third track) and convert to APE.  APE conversion fails on the seventh track.  Interestingly, it successfully converted the WAV track that had previously failed analysis.

My conclusion:  MC is failing to write back changes made to WAV files, even WAV files that it created, AFAICT.   

However, when I rip in MC directly to FLAC, it has no problem with the tracks.  So I do not believe that MC is failing to secure rights to files it creates (or that an anti-virus program is hindering it in this respect), as it would have the same trouble with FLACs it creates.

[JimH]

--In MC, I select the WAV files (wherein analysis had failed on the third track) and convert to APE.  APE conversion fails on the seventh track.  Interestingly, it successfully converted the WAV track that had previously failed analysis.

It is just this kind of inconsistent behavior that makes me think it's something flakey like virus checking or drive errors.

But the previous question I asked was whether everything was on the local drive.  If you answered it, I missed it.

And I don't understand the role of DB-something in this.

If you can rip to FLAC with MC, why are you ripping to WAV and then converting to FLAC?

[jgreen]

--Both drives were local, second drive was same drive as holds library, as requested.

--I used DBPowerAmp to provide a control sample of FLACs out of the same rip.  I can rip to FLAC in MC and not have any problems.  But to me that confirms that there is an issue within MC regarding WAV file handling, which I suspect is also presenting itself here:


WAV files don't work properly in Media Editor (related?)


--Everything is inconsistent in this EXCEPT it is WAV files only.  Therefore I think there is a bug in MC regarding WAV files.  I would hope to see one of the other beta testers try this and say they "don't confirm" before I just give up on it.   As you said, I can rip directly to FLAC and all is well, except for using Media Editor.

[JimH]

Tonight's build has a change that may have affected this.  Please try it.

[jgreen]

JimH--

The fix in v.77 has certainly fixed one other issue with WAVs that I reported, wherein WAVs were slow to respond to "next track" commands.  That issue is completely fixed, and totally snazzy.

Regarding the WAV conversion issue, it may have "improved" it but it has not fixed it.  I tried converting an album of WAVs and it routinely got 5 or 6 tracks in and then froze.  I can tell you where it's freezing:  on the "update database" process.  In the converting options, I unchecked "update database" and "send original file to the recycle bin."  The conversion worked FLAWLESSLY.  Then I rechecked "update database" and it once again froze.

Could one of the other beta testers possibly find time to test this and maybe even disprove it?  I realize WAV handling in an audio program isn't the kind of high-profile concern that fussing over button placement is, but all the same it's meaningful, IMO.

[Alex B]

From the 12.0.77 thread

6. Fixed: WAV (and other DX playback type files) would be slower than expected.

I wonder what this does mean. Is DX = DirectX?

Isn't Wave format "unwrapped" to PCM by MCs internal input plugin and then directly passed from MC's audio engine to the sound card's driver (e.g. ASIO)?

[Matt]

From the 12.0.77 thread
I wonder what this does mean. Is DX = DirectX?

Isn't Wave format "unwrapped" to PCM by MCs internal input plugin and then directly passed from MC's audio engine to the sound card's driver (e.g. ASIO)?

Yes, DX meant DirectX.

MC 12 uses the DirectX filter to "decode" WAV files instead of an internal plugin like MC 11.

All the audio data is still routed through our audio engine just the same as with MC (or old Winamp) plugins.

[Alex B]

Does this keep "Wave > PCM > ASIO > Digital Output" bit perfect?

I have some 44.1 kHz DTS wave files that I use with an external DTS decoder.


Is DX also involved with file conversions?

[glynor]

Does this keep "Wave > PCM > ASIO > Digital Output" bit perfect?

If I understand what Matt said, it should.  The decode is a different step from the "render" which is the part that MC's audio engine would handle (and is the part where it might take some shortcuts and not be bit perfect with a lesser engine).  The decode step is just taking the data out of the file "wrapper" and getting the raw audio bitstream extracted....  That step should ALWAYS be perfect (and should raise an exception if not).

[Matt]

Does this keep "Wave > PCM > ASIO > Digital Output" bit perfect?

It certainly should.  The DirectShow filter is doing decoding only.

Is DX also involved with file conversions?

Yes, the decoder used (MC vs DX vs Winamp) is the same for playback, conversion, burning, etc.

[Alex B]

It certainly should.  The DirectShow filter is doing decoding only.

Yes, the decoder used (MC vs DX vs Winamp) is the same for playback, conversion, burning, etc.

It seems to be bit perfect. As a test I did these conversions with MC12:

APE > convert to Wave > play the converted Wave through Disk Writer > convert the resulting wave output file to APE

Then I compared the source and the resulting APE files with foobar2000's bit comparator. The decoded outputs were identical.


However, 5.1 wave playback seems to be broken because of this change.

In this thread I posted a 5.1 channel test file that plays perfectly fine with MC11.1:
Topic: how does MC handle downmixing of multichannel PCM-files (2006-09-15)

The test file does not play with MC12.0.

The error messages (naturally they appeared one by one):



The log: wavlog1.zip

The test file: chanid.zip (360 kB)

Should I change something in my DS configuration? I have not changed the defaults. The "wav" format is unticked in DS playback settings.

[Yaobing]

Alex,

Your sample file plays fine on my computer.

We handle Wav files in DirectShow, the same way we handle m4a files. You should check "Wav" checkbox on DirectShow file types. However, since we no longer install Wav plugin, Wav files are always played in DirectShow, even if you to not check the checkbox.

The error message from Haali Media Splitter is odd. I do not understand why Haali Media Splitter should jump in. The filters involved should only be

File Source -> Wave Parser -> Renderer

Try specifying File "Source (Async.)"  and "Wave Parser" in DirectShow filter selection.

Yaobing

[Alex B]

Your sample file plays fine on my computer.

We handle Wav files in DirectShow, the same way we handle m4a files. You should check "Wav" checkbox on DirectShow file types. However, since we no longer install Wav plugin, Wav files are always played in DirectShow, even if you to not check the checkbox.

Hmm...

Do users need to understand this and experiment with DirectShow filters and settings?

Has this change something to do with future Vista compatibility or what was wrong with the old system? It worked.

The error message from Haali Media Splitter is odd. I do not understand why Haali Media Splitter should jump in. The filters involved should only be

File Source -> Wave Parser -> Renderer

Try specifying File "Source (Async.)"  and "Wave Parser" in DirectShow filter selection.

However, I'll try this.

[Alex B]

I changed the settings to this:



It didn't help. I got exactly the same error messages. Here's the log: wavlog2.zip

[Yaobing]

Do users need to understand this and experiment with DirectShow filters and settings?

I had hoped that no one needs to do anything about the settings since the filters involved are simple. If specifying the filters solves the problem, I can simply hard-code the filters.

Has this change something to do with future Vista compatibility or what was wrong with the old system? It worked.

The old system does not work on files with Unicode characters in the paths.

[Yaobing]

It didn't help. I got exactly the same error messages.

DirectShow failed to render the file. That bad. Something is wrong with DirectShow. What's wrong with DirectShow?!

[Alex B]

Back to the topic.


2-ch/16/44.1 wave playback and file conversions work fine for me.

I converted 25 APE files (91 min total), first to Wave and then the Wave files to FLAC.

Then resulting FLAC files are fine including complete file tagging. (I let MC update the database when it made the Wave files.)

The only drawback that I noticed was the Wave import speed. For example, dragging unimported wave files to PN was much slower than doing the same with the FLAC versions. I would say that the FLAC files showed up in the list about 25x faster (I had 25 test files).


- MC 12.0.77, FLAC decoder v.2.0.2, FLAC encoder v. 2.0.0

[jgreen]

Thanks Alex. 

I'm still seeing freezes when doing conversions (and presumably still true of analysis also) on WAV files, and unchecking "update database" seems to cure this.  I still believe there is something amiss with WAV handling currently, as your observations seems to confirm, but I have to think there's something on my machine causing this to go over the edge, as I seem to be alone in seeing freezing.

Alright, JimH, I'm going to call it a "personal issue" and lay off the bug reports.  I'll keep working on it and let you know.

[Alex B]

10. NEW: A new WAVE input plugin that handles uncompressed WAV files, including http:// files and files with UNICODE characters in the path. Compressed WAV files will continue to be handled in DirectShow.

This works for me.

Importing wave files is fast and I can play 5.1 wave files again.

Thanks.