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[benn600]

This holiday season, I just felt an overwhelming calm.  There just wasn't that much I wanted to buy on Black Friday...there was some things, but mainly at one store (Staples) and I got everything I was after.  It has also been very close to 3 years since my last desktop computer, so I decided perhaps it's time to upgrade with the new Core2's.

But, it's an expensive time of year so I wanted to get the price as low as possible.  I already have a few SATA drives I can use, a really nice sound card, a few video cards w/3 monitors, keyboard/mouse, optical drive, floppy (optional), speakers, etc.  Narrowing it down, I realized that I only need four components...
1) case w/ power supply
2) motherboard
3) processor
4) memory

Again, I want a new computer for as little money as I can spend but I want some of the newest technologies.

Here are my choices.  I'm curious what you guys think.  I ended up at just over $400 for everything and like I said, I already have hundreds or thousands of dollars of other equipment (listed above) that I will be reusing with this new computer.  I even have enough older equipment to keep my existing computer running in another room.

Case.  My existing computer emits 60 dB of noise where I sit.  I can't continue anymore!  With 4 hdd's, 4 optical, and lots of fans, it is very annoying.  This time, I am going with a case aimed at the quieter market.  I read some reviews and found that this particular case can start at 24 dB without any additional tweaks...big drop in sound!  Interestingly enough (unplanned), I saw this same case on dl.tv only a few days earlier.
http://www.buy.com/prod/Antec_Solution_MicroATX_Tower_Case_w_300w_Power_Supply/q/loc/101/202473233.html

Motherboard.  Now the case is a micro ATX so I have to find that type of motherboard which obviously supports my destiny, the Core2.  Basically, a quick search, and I glanced for the cheapest board with the most PCI slots since I absolutely must keep my Audigy2 PCI sound card.  With 3 pci slots, I will use one for my sound card, and the 2nd/3rd will be used for my two video cards until I can afford a pci-e video card.  I'll have to settle with one of my three monitors being in analog until I can get a 2-DVI pci-e...that will allow me to use it and one of my PCI video cards, opening a slot for the absolute necessity: a firewire card since this motherboard doesn't have it.  I think that will cover my needs.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202866246&loc=101&sp=1

Processor.  I wanted a Core2.  That's it.  So, I got the cheapest Core2 I could find--after weighing the benefits of a more expensive model, it doesn't seem like it's worth the extra money to me.  Unfortunately, my motherboard doesn't support the full bus speed, but I'm not worried.  I want a new, quiet, fast machine for as little as possible.  I am not a big gamer...older games are fine for me and they run fine on my existing machine.
http://www.buy.com/prod/Intel_Core_2_Duo_E6300_1_86GHz_Dual_Core_Socket_775_Processor_1066MHz/q/loc/101/202786579.html

Memory.  No questions here.  1GB to start with.  Got a question, though.  Doesn't it take two identical sticks to get double data rate?  I only got 1 stick of 2gb DDR2 memory because I want to get another gb later...if I got a 512, then I'd be stuck getting 2 1gb's later...or maxing at 1.5GB.  It's a little confusing here.
http://www.buy.com/prod/Viking_1GB_DDR2_SDRAM_Memory_Module_1GB_533MHz_DDR2_533_PC2_4200_Non/q/loc/101/202307527.html

Now, you're probably adding each component up and going crazy.  That's closer to $500!  Well, I ordered each piece separately and, being over $50 on each order, I got $20 off each order...so that's $80 off just for using Google Checkout and placing separate orders.

Getting a new computer is such a big event in any techie's life so I felt like it deserved it's own thread.  I'm sure lots of you guys out there have better computers--like the Core2 Extreme edition--but I was really going for an economical upgrade while helping reduce noise.

The case is also substantially smaller.  My current computer holds 4 optical drives, 2 smaller drives, and 4 hard drives!

One final amazing point.  I thought it would be nice to get this all in time for Christmas.  I'm gonna!  I ordered it Tuesday night and everything shipped today and it is all scheduled for delivery either Thursday or Friday.

I also ordered a hard drive Monday noon and got it Tuesday--free shipping, lol, with an amazing price ($20 off).

[glynor]

I have some recommendations for you, but I'll have to wait until tomorrow (I have Christmas present wrapping to do tonight) to articulate most of it...

However... Two things quick:

1) The quality of the RAM you buy is very important.  It doesn't have to be fancy RAM, but it has to be high quality, or you'll spend a long time regretting it with lack of stability.  For Core2 CPUs, I like Crucial, Corsair, Mushkin, or OCZ RAM (though OCZ has been having a bit more trouble with their DDR2 than they did with their DDR1).

As far as the two stick thing, it's not the DDR part.  That's Double Data Rate, which means that the RAM -- in optimal conditions -- can perform a read/write operation twice per clock cycle, rather than just once, and that applies no matter what.  What you lose having only one stick is Dual Channel performance.  That means (essentially in simplistic terms) that the system can access both sticks of RAM simultaneously, and thereby has access to effectively double the quantity of RAM each clock cycle.

2) Most of the Core2 CPUs have signifigant overclocking potential.  I didn't take the time to look at that board, but.. Gigabyte is a good name.  I have two Gigabyte motherboards.  However, a lot of the micro ATX boards are based on very sketchy core logic.  Right now I'd stick to the Intel 965 or 975 chipset based boards.  The nVidia chipset is suffering some serious problems (though not all boards, and I'm sure it'll be resolved), and I wouldn't touch a VIA board with a ten foot pole.

The Intel G965 boards are very nice though, and include onboard Video (you do have PCI express video cards currently and not AGP which won't work, right?).  Gigabyte and ABIT are making some great boards.  ASUS also often has nice stuff (and most of the rest of my boards are ASUS), but they've been suffering in quality a tiny bit lately.  DFI is fantastic for enthusiasts, but I'd steer clear of them unless you feel like endlessly tweaking the system...

One other tiny thing.  I know you have the extra $20 off through the Google Checkout thing, but just make double sure...

I only checked the one item, but that same Gigabyte board is 71.12 shipped from Newegg right now.  $6 here and $10 there doesn't take long to add up to $20.  Worth checking and getting the best possible deal!

Actually I did check (all the same exact identical components) -- including shipping in all cases:

CPU: $183.00
Motherboard: $71.12
RAM: $121.98 (and Viking is a little sketchy -- I've personally gotten bunk RAM from them twice).

Use one of these instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145525 : 103.99 + 4.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820609085 : 97.99 + 4.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146049 : 99.99 + 4.99

and the case is cheaper from Buy.com, so buy that there and still get your $20 off (which means the case is only like $60)!

[benn600]

71.12....well, I got it for 57.61, so yea, I did in fact get a better deal.  Yay!  I like learning later I got a good deal because I rarely check prices since Buy.com is basically almost always the cheapest but with the $20 off, they have raised prices a tad (I think)..but it still ends up usually being cheaper.  I think I'll be building this computer Christmas morning but we'll see.

The memory is Viking which has worked well for me in the past but who knows.

Of course, I could have got a bigger motherboard, bigger case, and spent more.  As I said, I was going for the cheapest possible setup to do what I need.  My previous computer had a ~$200 motherboard which is pretty dang good.  It was MSI but I'm not too happy with it for a few reasons so I decided to try a different brand this time.  This will only be my second home built computer.

I will want to try to get a DirectX 10 card and hopefully, be able to buy Vista when it comes out.

[glynor]

Didn't notice that you'd already ordered it!  Oops! 

[benn600]

Lol.

It was a funny process.  I was watching an episode of Call For Help at around 9 o'clock.  Leo started talking about how amazing the new Core2's are.  In about 30 seconds, I decided I should go investigate.  I had all 4 items ordered within 30 minutes.  Since it was late at night, I knew nothing would ship.  I wanted to get things ordered to get in the queue.

I then read some reviews.  The case has gotten very high reviews.  The chip, no problems there...there are only about 4-5 to pick from and I wanted the cheapest one.  Memory, I haven't ever had memory issues so I got the cheapest.  The motherboard, whatever.  It's a good brand, cheapie.

I want to strongly emphasize I want cheap.  I'll explain the performance I get!

[benn600]

Well, my parents usually limit our Christmas presents to around $300 but it always goes over that because I order things, my mom gets things, and my dad gets things.  In the end, it's more like 4-5 hundred.  Unfortunately, I'm already in that range so I don't know if I'll be able to wrap up this $400, too.  But, I usually get a new comp every 3 years and that is typically separate from Christmas.  Otherwise, I'll have to pay for it which wouldn't be terrible.

[hit_ny]

I want to strongly emphasize I want cheap.  I'll explain the performance I get!

Cheap & holday season don't usually go together. Cheap comes if you plan in advance.

If i wanted a Core2Duo for cheaper then it would have been better to wait for Intel to EOL their P4s, i anticipate at least a 20-30% drop in their prices a few months from now.

[johnnyboy]

I just built a new system.
After all the research I did it seems like if you're going to get a Core 2 Duo, you'd be silly not to OC it.
An E6400 from everything I've read, OC's ridiculasly easily with solid stability to at least 3Ghz and thats keeping it hassle free and rock stable. Alot of people are trying to get 4Ghz from theirs and alot seem to get up to around 3.4/3.6 so I'm going to do mine to 3 just to make sure its stable and hassle free as thats most important to me.


If you want to go super cheap get an E6300 - cheapest Core 2 out there.
If you want to OC it though, you'll need a good board - I just got a Gigabyte 965P-D3
(supposedly you want the intel 965 chipset if you plan to OC)
Ram I got the cheapest high performance RAM I could find - 2Gb of GEIL rated at : 5:5:5:15 (whatever that means)

Case I already have an Antec P180 which does an awesome job of keeping the system extremely quiet.


I'd say get an E6300, 1Gb of high quality RAM and a MoBo that'll let you OC the lot to try get the max performance for your buck.

Tomshardware Guide's forums have a huge section dedicated to systems so I'd say go there and ask for advice on the best bang for buck for performance vs silence vs power.

[johnnyboy]

nvm - you've bought it already, didn't read the thread closely enough!

[dcwebman]

FYI, if you find it's still not quiet enough, I've heard good things about the products from this company: http://www.endpcnoise.com/

[Mr ChriZ]

It's interesting I'm currently looking at buying a pre-built
4200x2 from Dell.

Considering it comes with Windows Media Center Edition
and a free upgrade to Vista, I've worked out I can't build
a similar system over here for the same money.

If I go with Dell and an Intel Processor it's a different story
they want an extra £200 for an E6300.

Yet building your own system there's very little in price between
the two systems, so seems to make more sense to go for Intel at the moment.

[Mr ChriZ]

Cheap & holday season don't usually go together. Cheap comes if you plan in advance.

If i wanted a Core2Duo for cheaper then it would have been better to wait for Intel to EOL their P4s, i anticipate at least a 20-30% drop in their prices a few months from now.

DOH!
You're quite right Hit_ny, Dell has hiked up their prices
on the system I wanted to build since last week!

[Mr ChriZ]

1) The quality of the RAM you buy is very important.  It doesn't have to be fancy RAM, but it has to be high quality, or you'll spend a long time regretting it with lack of stability.  For Core2 CPUs, I like Crucial, Corsair, Mushkin, or OCZ RAM (though OCZ has been having a bit more trouble with their DDR2 than they did with their DDR1).

Any preferences for AMD systems?  Even if I buy the Dell System it seems to make
more sense to buy the memory seperatley.

[glynor]

Any preferences for AMD systems?  Even if I buy the Dell System it seems to make
more sense to buy the memory seperatley.

I personally like AMD's systems better, but right now for top performance Intel's Core 2 is the way to go.  At the low to medium end, AMD can't be beat though (and if you wait until mid-next year we should have some real competition again when K8L comes out).

If I were to build some systems myself right now, they'd be (not including hard drive, optical drive, keyboard, mouse, OS, or monitor because most people already have those that they could use -- at least for a while):

AMD Really Low End:

ASRock ALiveNF6G-DVI Socket AM2 nVidia NF6100-430 MicroATX Motherboard - $66.99
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Orleans Core (2.0 GHz - 512KB L2 Cache) Retail - $77.99
CORSAIR XMS2 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) TWIN2X1024A-6400 - $124
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel, SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail - $49.99
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-400 (400 watt) PSU - $54.99

Total: $373.96 (not including shipping)

AMD Low End with Dual Core and 2GB RAM:

(I'd keep the case, and PSU from above.)

ABIT NF-M2 nView Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6150 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $89.99
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+(65W) Windsor 2.0GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model ADO3800CUBOX - Retail - $130.99
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400) Memory Model TWIN2X2048-5400c4 - $239.00 (other options would be: (a) grab just 1x 1GB stick to upgrade to 2 GB later, or (b) upgrade to higher-speed DDR-800 memory from one of the manufacturers listed in my post above)

Total: $564.96

[glynor]

AMD Midrange with Discreet Graphics:

ASUS M2N-E Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 Ultra MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - $93.99
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400 - $273.00 (also option to go with 1x 1GB or switch to a different vendor)

Graphics Options:
Low end (no gaming or "real" 3D use, but plenty for Vista and MC):  HIS Hightech H130F256EN-R Radeon X1300 256MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 - $61.99
Entry Level:
Mid range (great for gaming and 3D without being absurdly expensive): SAPPHIRE 100176L Radeon X1950PRO 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - $189.99
Other Good Options would be: ATI Radeon X1650 XT (from any major vendor), nVidia 7900 GS or 7950 GT, or nVidia 7600GT (read here)

Otherwise, same CPU, Case, and PSU as the Dual Core option above.

Total (with Low End GPU): $664.95
Total (with Midrange GPU): $792.95

[glynor]

Intel Core2 Duo Midrange System:

Same Case, PSU, and RAM as the AMD Midrange System listed above.  Also, the same graphics options apply.

GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3 Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $124.99 (another option would be to go with an Intel 965G based board with onboard graphics and then drop the discreet video card -- this wouldn't be very good for graphics at all though)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6300 - Retail - $183.00

Total (Low End Graphics): $747.96
Total (Mid Range Graphics): $875.96

This would certainly be the best performing of the systems, especially when overclocked.  The Athlon 3800+ and the Core2 Duo E6300 will both be likely to overclock well with any of these motherboards, but when everything is said and done the Intel system would win out.  Of course, it is also priced quite a bit higher!  If you instead drop down to an Intel 945 based motherboard, you'd likely be better off going with the AMD Dual Core system.  The Intel integrated graphics chips just blow monkey chunks (the nVidia 6150 is actually fairly nice though), and the 945 boards are all going to severely limit any overclocking potential you have.

Another VERY important note.  ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS buy retail CPUs.  If you go OEM, you have to buy a separate heatsink/fan combo (which is fine for enthusiasts because you can get a better one but it costs money) but more importantly the OEM chips typically come with NO WARRANTY at all.  This is huge.  The retail chips are usually less than $10 more expensive.  It's worth it to have that warranty (and just consider the HSF a freebie that you can throw away if you don't want it for some reason).

Noise:

If you want to quiet the thing down, the case matters a LOT LESS than the Heatsink-Fan and Graphics cards.  The 120mm case fan in the Coolermaster case I recommended is very quiet (which is a very nice case -- Antec cases are also cheap and nice, but heavy as a tank).  It works well because it's a nice big (and that means slow) 120mm fan in back.  As I said... There are plenty of nice Antec cases out there too!

Mainly though, it's those little fans that are noisy!  For aftermarket Heatsink-Fan units, I really like the Zalman CNPS9500 (AMD socket 754/939/940 and Intel) or CNPS9500 AM2 (for AMD socket AM2) which are around $50.  These things are QUIET!  Then, look at your video card and chipset.  Those little fans are often quite noisy as well (my graphics cards fans are usually the loudest thing in the systems).  On the low-end, Sapphire makes a nice X1300 256MB card that has no fan at all, and there are plenty of fanless midrange graphics cards!

People don't think about that, but the noisiest fans are usually the small ones.  In that regard... Cheap == loud.

[Mr ChriZ]

Ooops... sorry my question was really just relating to the memory manufacturer,
but thanks for all the additional info anyway, It answers my question!

The Dell I was originally looking at was along the lines of a
AMD 4200 x2
2GB of Memory
256MB ATI Radeon X1300 graphics card

I don't really need a gaming graphics card, I just want a system that will be able to handle Vista with Aero without any problems.
So it's fairly similar to what you've suggested.

I think our prices are a fair bit higher than yours.

[glynor]

The X1300 will be fine for Vista.  It's actually a really nice low-end chip.

Over the next few months, AMD/ATI is going to be introducing some new low-end cards that will be much better actually.  But that wouldn't necessarily be a reason to wait (low end is low end).

I WOULD however steer very clear of the X1300 "Hyper Memory" cards (or the nVidia 7300 Turbo Cache cards).  This basically means that the graphics card has little or no memory of it's own and "steals" it's memory from the main system RAM.  This is bad for a bunch of reasons, but mainly because it reduces the amount of system RAM you have available.  It'd be better to just save money and get onboard graphics (the NF6150 is very nice) which has direct access to the system memory, or spend a few extra bucks and grab one with onboard graphics RAM.

[glynor]

I think our prices are a fair bit higher than yours.

Yeah... They really rape you across the pond.

However, a good place to shop for those of you in the UK is: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/

They generally have fairly fair prices (or so I'm told).

[Mr ChriZ]

The X1300 will be fine for Vista.  It's actually a really nice low-end chip.

Over the next few months, AMD/ATI is going to be introducing some new low-end cards that will be much better actually.  But that wouldn't necessarily be a reason to wait (low end is low end).

Yeh, one of those things with computers, someones always going to be releasing something, dropping prices, etc can get to the point where you never actually buy!  

[glynor]

Yeh, one of those things with computers, someones always going to be releasing something, dropping prices, etc can get to the point where you never actually buy! 

Right!  At the high and midrange ends, timing is important.  Because of the graphics product lifecycle, you can end up buying something and then 2 weeks later something will come out for the same price that actually will perform twice as well (which also makes what you bought half the cost).  Then those cards will stick around for 6 months or so.  It's generally best to buy right in the middle of that 6 month cycle (price and performance wise).

At the low end though... Generally it is what it is.  I wouldn't buy one of the X1300 cards in late January (because then the new X1350 or whatever they're calling it, which is really just a rebranded X1650 card, will be out), but for now, it doesn't matter much.  Low end is low end, and they tend to "refresh" them less often.

[johnnyboy]

Tomshardware Guide has a monthly review of which is the best card for the money.
They just released their december guide.

Fans make a huge diff to the system noise but I also found that the silicon dampers on my P180 case for the HD's make a huge diff to the noise too - I pretty much never hear my HD's at all any more.
Main noise I hear from my system is just airflow (whole system just uses 120mm fans and I just did a lot of research into which ones to buy and even my CPU cooler (Big Typhoon 120 VX) uses a 120mm fan.


As for retail vs OEM - here I saved over $30 by buying OEM and that $30 paid for half of my CPU cooler which makes my system ALOT quieter and cooler so was worth it.
The OEM chip has a year long warranty as well Vs the retails 3yrs.

From personal experience thou I usually find hardware either works or doesn't. If it is faulty you can usually see signs quite early on. If it's not, its really a case of how long is some string as to how long it'll last.

[Mr ChriZ]

Fans make a huge diff to the system noise but I also found that the silicon dampers on my P180 case for the HD's make a huge diff to the noise too - I pretty much never hear my HD's at all any more.
Main noise I hear from my system is just airflow (whole system just uses 120mm fans and I just did a lot of research into which ones to buy and even my CPU cooler (Big Typhoon 120 VX) uses a 120mm fan.

I've got pretty much to the point where the drives are the noisiest things in my system.
I've tried different manufacturers and I think Hitachi still seems the quietest to me,
however it's still there, a sort of constant low level whirr noise. 
I've got my Hitachi drive on a Rubber Mountings, which stops the vibration passing
through to the case quite nicely.  However you've only got to power the system
up with the drive unplugged to realise just how much noise they make.
Roll on non mechanical drives!  On the other hand though I find hard drives
fascinating in a similar sort of ways to Records.  We'll miss them when they're gone!

[benn600]

It's built!  Few issues came up during build process and install but I figured them all out.

1) The first time I pushed the power button, I forgot to turn on the power supply switch and this resulted in unnecessary cable flipping--dang!
2) Upon installing fresh XP SP2, I ran into a point where it said 30 minutes remaining or so and would go to a black screen with white cursor in top left.  I would also run into this later in the install process.  Turns out having two Radeon 9250's was messing everything up.  At one point, I was at the desktop and only seconds after popping up showing Radeon 9200 (Microsoft Corporation) as a new device, it would do the same crash (black screen).
3) Being in a big hurry to get the problem solved, I ran to Best Buy and got there minutes before they opened.  Having 3 dvi monitors (9250's have only 1-dvi) and (I think) only able to use one of those, I wanted a PCI-express (to keep my last PCI open and obviously get a better, faster card) I needed one with two DVI ports.  I settled on a factory overclocked 512MB X1300 XGE for around $180...putting up about a hundred from Christmas money and the rest on card.  After getting home and installing the card, the computer wouldn't even turn on!  I did everything an intelligent individual would and nothing helped...then suddenly, it started working!  No idea!
4) That fixed everything!  So I have that new card, one 9250, and my Audigy2 Premium Pro with one slot open.
5) It seems to be a lot louder now which may be because the processor is being used more but it is a bit annoying.  Having an L desk, I moved it from the computer holder on the left to the top of the desk on my right (lots of cables to re-route!  3 DVI are thick!)  I did this because it's hard to get to the cables on the left and I thought it was quiet...but it's getting a little louder now.  BTW, I use the S-Video on the 9250 for my television, too, so 4 monitors total.

I have noticed a few things about MC.  It performs better in general.  It also crashes less often (except the dreaded stop syncing--always crashes!).  I have my formatting procedure down to be rock-solid.  I have 4 registry files which automatically setup the Music, Pictures, Documents, Desktop, etc folders to point to my server drive with the username variable.  Another sets up a program called Auto Wallpaper Changer: It's  http://www.smurphy.co.uk/board/
I have a reg file that sets up it's directory (to server) and all the config.  Then another which hides the recycle bin (I create a shortcut in the start menu).  It disables autorun...then I have a premade Documents and Settings folder which overwrites the Firefox and Thunderbird profiles file and sets the profile to the server for both.  Another reg file sets a ton of MC settings with a few clicks so I don't have to remember how I have vital settings.  I still have to open MC to set the profile location, watch folders, and Secure mode for all CD drives.

I select all 4 reg files ... enter...enter over and over.

I also rearranged my monitors since this box is better at gaming.  I had 2 20" landscape and my 21" portrait furthest from me.  Put 21" landscape by me and 2 20" further in landscape.  It takes more space but portrait mode is annoying because it messes up the wallpaper...all three are 1600x1200 so it looks nice if they are all same orientation.

The middle one is on the 9250 and the start menu taskbar defaults there.  Is there a way to move this?  I have made the leftmost 21" (best monitor) the default monitor so I can play games there but the start bar doesn't move to default monitor.  I thought there may be a setting in bios to prefer PCI cards but that wouldn't make sense!  I couldn't find any such settings.

Perhaps my motherboard isn't expensive and feature filled enough to overclock but I do see some overclock settings.  From someone who has no idea how to overclock, what is the procedure?  I don't want to even chance breaking something.  I've never overclocked and am still hesitant.

My system is working great!  Very pleased with the speed!  I have 1 1GB stick with a free stick so I'll move right into 2GB when I get a little money!

[Magic_Randy]

It also crashes less often (except the dreaded stop syncing--always crashes!).

Congratulations on getting your new PC up and running.

What is the "dreaded stop syncing--always crashes!" problem?  The reason I ask is MC sometimes freezes when I sync my iPod.  I have to kill it to get out.  I'm wondering if this is the problem you are describing.

Randy

[benn600]

When I click the cancel/stop/whatever it is button to stop the sync, MC always instantly closes--95% of the time.

[Magic_Randy]

When I click the cancel/stop/whatever it is button to stop the sync, MC always instantly closes--95% of the time.

Thanks...
I've never canceled a sync, so I don't suffer from this issue.  I have a problem where MC locks up.  It must be something with my PC setup.  I do not believe it is a general problem with MC.