Topic: Digital Delivery in the Future (Read 4119 times)

benn600 · « **on:** September 24, 2007, 02:30:12 pm »

Many people agree to some extent that digital delivery will eventually take over. Maybe they are wasting time adding TV support. They should be forward thinking and take TV support out (lol). Why do we watch a show at X time. It should be made available via a podcast feed from NBC or ABC or FOX or Comedy Central (South Park!!) with commercials so it is downloaded to everyone within a few minutes after it is released. It can be released when they want to show it. Then, if you don't find a free second until 2 hours after the Simpsons aired (new intro references movie!) then you're fine! It will be downloaded on you server and readily available in your Media Center library on any of your computers or home theater pcs.

Video podcasts are absolutely my favorite way to view content and I give any Video Podcasts preference over television shows. News reports will be carefully crafted and could be pushed to users. News is really the only place you need live content.

jmone · « **Reply #1 on:** September 25, 2007, 12:40:02 am »

Benn - I sort of agree - MC12 has TV support is there if you just want to watch it, it is PVR support so people can timeshift to suit them that needs the additional work.
Nathan

aussie1 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 25, 2007, 02:35:51 am »

I generally agree with Benn. Traditional scheduled broadcast and cable TV is going to be around for many years. But, for the technology literate, we are finally reaching the point where the infrastructure for broadcast on demand (whether by podcasts, streaming video from websites, or a number of other distribution channels) is a reality. It is the future. This means of accessing entertainment and information is second nature for anyone in their late twenties or younger. They spend much more time on facebook than watching TV anyway. The game for the infrastructure and device providers is to make on demand and push content easy to use for those who are not so technology savvy or lack the education or financial resources to access it. Or tap into that group that is already on line.

It wouldn't surprise me if J River feels that it has "bigger fish to fry" than TV/PVR. I agree that it is the weakest part of any otherwise superior product. But most of the user base already has workarounds that are fine (sorry). My experience watching MC develop over the last seven years (time flies) is that J River's intuition and focus about product direction is quite good. And their connection to and understanding of the wants and needs of users is excellent. Probably my favorite software company.

This is an exciting space. There is so much innovation and opportunity. Everyone has their own interests and example experiences in this area. The news junkie in me is addicted to sites such as the recently launched Charlie Rose site. This is a much better than setting the Tivo/PVR for a season pass. And the recent debate mash ups, while clearly an alpha product at best, have the potential to be much better than watching a traditional sequential broadcast. I'd say that sporting events need live content, but most news isn't as urgent as it might seem. (Neither are most of those blackberry messages.)

aussie1 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 25, 2007, 03:24:02 am »

PS: Is this finally the All Blacks year or are they gonna choke again?

jmone · « **Reply #4 on:** September 25, 2007, 03:42:55 am »

Aussie1,

Maybe - but I'm not convinved...
1) TV did not kill radio and neither will

Quote

podcasts, streaming video from websites, or a number of other distribution channels

kill TV - they will all co-exisit. To me TV is just another feed and adding PVR functionality in Theater View not only lets you treat it as such but completes the purppose of a T'View Style IF aimed at HTPC's.

Now I know your full of it...
2) The All Blacks are going down!

Nathan

prod · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2007, 06:42:43 am »

Quote from: aussie1 on September 25, 2007, 02:35:51 am

It is the future.

I hope the future is more exciting than some dumb podcast downloadable through Facebook.

On-demand TV co-exists with live TV and has done for some time. Ever rented a video or bought a DVD? OK, but now it's been made more convenient it's "new technology" and "the future". It's about as inspiring as pizza delivery.

I like the idea of PVR through MC, however... but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen. Maybe J River could do well researching the idea of developing a standalone HTPC product based on MC. Kind of like how MS separate WMP and MS Media Center. Then we'd have two products to eulogise/moan about.

steveklein · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2007, 07:41:53 am »

i dunno.... i have high hopes that i can ditch GBPVR/SageTV/Beyond TV/MythTV/TiVo/any other PVR software at some point in the future and just run it all through MC. I just found this software so I have no idea how quickly or slowly new versions come out, but needless to say I am very impressed with the software. I can tell the software is incredibly powerful... I just need to get used to the interface and overwhelming amount of custom options out there.

benn600 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 25, 2007, 09:22:12 am »

Quote

Maybe J River could do well researching the idea of developing a standalone HTPC product based on MC.

No, oh no! The beauty of Media Center is that you have one program. With two key presses, your in theater view! I can just about guarantee that will never happen and for good reason. It's the Apple model to have ONE thing if they need one thing. Or TWO things if they NEED two things. Separating the two would basically separate what is already integrated nicely.

My only feature request would be a time warp for J River. They would live at 0.5x time and have twice the work time between releases. Every new feature is very helpful so then we can figure out what's goin' on in their heads a lil' fasta' .

prod · « **Reply #8 on:** September 25, 2007, 09:49:32 am »

I just see two distinct camps emerging in the forum. Those that use MC as an HTPC and those that don't; and both camps seem to require v different functionality and focus.

I don't know about Apple, but Microsoft have two distinctly different apps that work together. WMP and Media Center, and it works well. It's quite a successful model in fact, with both projects running concurrently they can have completely separate focus & specifications whilst using the same backbone API. Unfortunately their implementation is lacking. As for your two key presses, thats two too many for many HTPC users. And why you believe selecting a menu item for Theatre View makes MC "beautiful" (paraphrasing) is beyond me.

I think the world is missing a really good HTPC software that does all the basic functionality (and that includes HD support, PVR and EPG). MC is well placed to do something about that, and the big entities (MS/Apple) are also very interested and getting better at it.

benn600 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2007, 10:01:13 am »

Quote

As for your two key presses, thats two too many for many HTPC users

And you can set MC to startup in Theater Mode by default. No more buttons!

If they had the time and desire to add all the functionality people are asking for, it would most likely be LESS time consuming integrating it into the existing program. Creating another program would be a horrible path. They'd basically be removing functionality to just have HTPC stuff--which means "Do we keep this?" to a million features. Would take forever.

Remember, if we were on digital distribution, you could still stream live video from the internet. As long as MC cached the live stream, you could pause and ff/rw. Plus, there'd be no TiVo because it would just be available for streaming on the content owner's web site! So it's there when you're ready! We're bypassing all this trickery of timing out recording device. A recording device, like TiVo, is really actually dumb. It just starts at X time without any idea what it's recording. So you get junk before and after. With a digital system, the content owner would start the encoded video at exactly where they want it.

It would be impressive.

prod · « **Reply #10 on:** September 25, 2007, 10:13:15 am »

Do you get what an API is? For instance, two UI clients use the same API. Both products have the same base functionality. Different UI. That's the model that Microsoft are using for WMP and Media Center. That's what I'm getting at. ~~Different UI.~~ Completely different, separate UI application accessing the API.

There's a few billion people on this planet that have never heard of Tivo, nor care to know. My PVR is actually pretty smart. Believe it or not, I'm really not excited about streaming video off the internet, YouTube is my least favourite site and I'm sick of hearing about it in the news or anywhere else for that matter.

steveklein · « **Reply #11 on:** September 25, 2007, 10:30:21 am »

that surprises me prod. even a great interface with a functional pvr would become obsolete if we can stream digital broadcasts off the net at any time. why use tivo to record some show when i can just ave that show sent to me.

the only problem i see would be commercials but i mean i'm sure there would be ways around it (or i hope there would ::evil grin:: )

now imagine being able to do everything you are discussing in a device like an iphone (with gps, sat radio, and tons more added)

man i get giddy just thinking about 2015.

prod · « **Reply #12 on:** September 25, 2007, 11:09:41 am »

I imagine a world where anyone can set up their own rubbish TV station over the net and pretty much force their way into my home. Even if I don't watch them I have to listen to their goings on via the news or so-called magazine programs that the missus likes. Like Big Brother but Bigger. Makes me shudder.

I know what you're getting at though. Instead of tuning in via radio waves tune in via the internet and stream stream stream. I imagine the major players will still schedule their high-cost production broadcasts though - and no adverts? I doubt it. Sorry if I'm putting a bit of a dampener on, but really... these guys & girls need to make a living, and then some more.

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2007, 11:13:28 am »

Quote from: prod on September 25, 2007, 11:09:41 am

I imagine a world where anyone can set up their own rubbish TV station over the net ...

We're working on Rubbish TV as you speak. Does that make us part of the problem or part of the solution?

prod · « **Reply #14 on:** September 25, 2007, 11:21:04 am »

The missus can't wait.

benn600 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 25, 2007, 01:06:13 pm »

You think those 150 channels you have are all golden? I think most of them care CRAP! I feel that most shows on television these days are seriously lacking value and I have very few real shows I follow.

Cartoons are a different matter (South Park, Simpsons).

But steaming video--I'm not talking You Tube. I'm talking full screen video as in Joost. It will be as good as television quality is now and HD isn't too far off, either. That's why we're thinking into the future. It's still a short ways off. I watch 4 internet shows already: Cranky Geeks, Digital Life TV, sometimes Hak5, and another one. They are all tech shows--which I really enjoy--and I get entertainment from movies and the few shows I like...

My media is covered. I only am concerned with basic TV because everyone else in my family must have it (lol). Over the air is good for free HD content.

I'm really looking forward to some of the upcoming features in MC.

I really hope the folks at J River remember DVDs and include DVD streaming in their new features that seem impending. It would be perfect if it could encode the DVD menu on the fly to send to clients! And subtitles. And 5.1 (if you want)....etc! Don't stop adding features!

prod · « **Reply #16 on:** September 25, 2007, 02:35:27 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on September 25, 2007, 01:06:13 pm

You think those 150 channels you have are all golden?

Nope I think I made that pretty clear. Though there's some very good stuff out there but finding it can be difficult.

Quote from: benn600 on September 25, 2007, 01:06:13 pm

But steaming video--I'm not talking You Tube. I'm talking full screen video as in Joost. It will be as good as television quality is now and HD isn't too far off, either.

I have HD now, without internet streaming. And a crap show is still crap in HD. A good show is still good on a fuzzy 12" black & white box. The means of getting it into my house is already here and has been for a long time. All you're saying is that it's better because it came through your 24mb broadband connection. And I'm saying it isn't, it's just as crap. But there'll be plenty more crap to choose from.

I'm sure some good stuff will come along but that's not due to internet streaming, it's due to talented & creative individuals doing what they do best. That's what I look forward to.

benn600 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 25, 2007, 11:29:52 pm »

Quote

All you're saying is that it's better because it came through your 24mb broadband connection.

It's not about how it gets to you. It's that it does. It's the future.

Digital. Delivery. Now.

There, that's gonna be the new slogan for digital distribution (lol).

hit_ny · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2007, 01:16:53 am »

While everyone's getting all hot & bothered about how they receive TV...

Does anyone know how the net neutrality debate is shaping up ?

I'd imagine that would be a key factor in how content gets to people. Merely projecting into the future using Moore's law won't be good enough till this is settled. The telcos have been having sleepless nights since Youtube came out. Their business model of expecting a bulk of their customers, not to download too much gets shot to bits.

Face it, we all agree there's a lot of crap out there but the bulk of viewers are interested in just that. They're the ones that make or break shows. If Internet TV takes off, there will be a few orders of magnitude jump in traffic and my guess is there will be a few changes.

prod · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2007, 04:41:54 am »

Not sure but it's a good point. If internet TV becomes such a reality then censorship will inevitably follow. If everyone is internet neutral, what happens, for instance, to watershed times for appropriate viewing to minors?

There are already mainstream news stories reporting inappropriate content on sites such as YouTube, what happens when internet TV is turned on to the masses? There will certainly be some public pressure to intervene in an attempt to control it. The ISP's will take at least some responsibility and have to respond, as they have done in other areas.

I believe the BBC are starting to broadcast shows on the internet. But you need their player to do it... which means they of course control what you watch, where you watch it from and when you watch it. Sounds familiar.

benn600 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 10, 2007, 12:07:07 am »

lol. Just plain lol.

If you think kids are somehow safe on the internet now and it is censored then lol. I think that's a parenting issue. Generally speaking, having a television with a hundred channels is less safe by default unless some effort is taken to block certain channels.

hit_ny · « **Reply #21 on:** October 10, 2007, 02:23:39 am »

No one is talking about the kids

This has to do with who foots the bill to transfer what to whom !

the telcos *now* think that the providers of said content should be doing it.

the providers think the telcos must do it , iow telcos should be neutral as to what content passes through their pipes, as has been the case upto now.

Usually when neither wants to do it, then the cost gets passed on to the consumer.

So this may lead to wierd situations where only certain sites are allowed not unlike your cable tv bill, you want so many chanels, then this is how much you pay.

This actually breaks what the internet is, ie anything over one pipe from anywhere to anyone vs. walled gardens the likes of which existed before the internet.

prod · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2007, 02:55:50 am »

[Edit]

It's windy in here.

hit_ny, I hear you. I'll worry about it when it nearly happens.

benn600 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 10, 2007, 11:12:22 am »

I sure hope that that never happens. If they start restricting sites then yea, the internet won't be what it is. When you actually think about it--we're very lucky that wasn't built in to the internet in the beginning! What if we had to subscribe to sites from our ISP? That would be horrible!! More so, what if for television there were a gazillion channels and anyone could create one that would appear on everyone's television--channel 13028--at that point, you'd have the television of the internet. Hmmm.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Digital Delivery in the Future (Read 4119 times)